More Ella Fitzgerald. Amazing performance of "It Don't Mean A Thing" from 1958.
A heads up for everyone: At 11:45 am ET/8:45 am PT tomorrow, Caroline Frederickson of the ACLU will be here to chat live about the latest news on the pending FISA-related legislation. And what you can do to help ensure that the rule of law and the Constitution are taken into account before there is a vote.
Nieman Watchdog has a fantastic post filled with questions that people who inform themselves of the rule of law, the constitution, and the lessons of history might be asking themselves and politicians. To wit:
...Many basic questions regarding the National Security Agency's warrantless wiretapping program (arguably a program in violation of FISA) and others, for example, Department of Defense operations run through the Counterintelligence Field Activity's now-defunct TALON program, Department of Homeland Security's regional intelligence fusion centers, FBI-organized Joint Terrorism Task Forces and Field Intelligence Groups, have not been answered.
I start with a few excerpts, along with some of my thoughts in brackets, from the Church Committee's Book II, Intelligence Activities and the Rights of Americans, just to emphasize the platitude that the more things change, the more they stay the same:
"Governmental officials—including those whose principal duty is to enforce the law—have violated or ignored the law over long periods of time [reminds one of warrantless wiretapping] and have advocated and defended their right to break the law [reminiscent of Justice Department memos, signing statements, etc., some would argue]."
"The Constitutional system of checks and balances has not adequately controlled intelligence activities….Congress has failed to exercise sufficient oversight, seldom questioning the use to which its appropriations were being put. Most domestic intelligence issues have not reached the courts [because of the state secrets privilege invoked by executive branch lawyers, coupled with excessive judicial deference to the executive], and in those cases when they have reached the courts, the judiciary has been reluctant to grapple with them."
We don't know the answers to these questions and journalists, the public and, most importantly, Congress—which has the power and duty to compel the answers—need to ask them:
Q. Which governmental agencies [and I would add private entities working on their behalf] have engaged in domestic spying?
Q. How many citizens have been targets of Governmental intelligence activity?
Q. What standards have governed the opening of intelligence investigations and when have intelligence investigations been terminated?
Q. Where have the targets fit on the spectrum between those who commit violent criminal acts and those who seek only to dissent peacefully from Government policy?
Q. To what extent has the information collected included intimate details of the targets' personal lives or their political views, and has such information been disseminated and used to injure individuals?
Q. What actions beyond surveillance have intelligence agencies taken, such as attempting to disrupt, discredit, or destroy persons or groups who have been the targets of surveillance?...
And plenty more where that came from, too. Not exactly holding my breath that media types will be asking them any Time soon, though.
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Zed!
The ACLU chat is 15 minutes after the kids get on the bus, perfect!
Hi there, Christy!
Hey, Christy - how are things in WV today? It was sunny but chilly here in the Southern Tier of NY.
I’ve been wondering if they have been using the SETI radar…it can track a cell phone signal as far away as Jupitor; plus, maybe they just changed some software. SETI has always been seen as a program that costs a lot, with little to no results…yet. Just a thought.
Good questions all. Both legislators and journalists need to get over the fear that anybody but wingnuts will think they’re “with the terrorists” if they demand answers on interrogation and wiretapping.
Toby — It’s chilly, but not freezing cold, and quite sunny. Lovely day today, actually.
Redshift — There are a lot more questions in the Nieman piece, too. Really good ones. Would that more people were asking them publicly…and often.
And do yourselves a favor and watch the Ella video.
Anyone watch the Frontline show about the wiretapping…
There is no doubt that there is a huge sucking sound of data. The deal is that they attempt to skip the legality issue by getting outside contractors to do all the spying, and then they get it from them, so that the government is not actually doing the spying, they are just using data collected by private companies.
LS @ 9
But, HOW and WHY are the private companies getting access to it? That is the nub of the matter.
Excellent information Christy. Thanks. Everyone can put this to good use. I, for one, am saving the list of questions.
During the run-up to war, I made jokes about all those funny clicking sounds on my telephone, but now I am pissed. Really pissed.
LS @ 9
You have no 4th Amendment protection from privacy invasions by private entities. Should the Bu’ush regime be successful in its push to indemnify telecoms regarding their domestic spying, it’ll be a huge precedent toward eviscerating any standard criminal or tort recourse as well.
This is Part 1, of Frontline’s “Spying on the Home Front”. The other parts are also on Youtube. There’s lots of information there:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xxc-30IXwgY
Christy Hardin Smith @ 8
Good find. Some really fine fiddling by Stuff Smith, too!
Anyone watch the Frontline show about the wiretapping…
All those rooms and those expensive super-duper computers. Who paid for ‘em?
War On War Off @ 16
They were set up “for” NSA, but I also wonder who paid for them. Follow the money on that one. My dream would be if it was the RNC!!! Heh!!
This was in digg proximity:
So You Want To Stop Terrorism But You Don’t Wanna Go Outside…
Every one can play!
LS @ 17
My bet would be that it’s “classified.”
OT; relevant to the WGA threads: I came across this in ‘TV Guide’ for Dec. 6, ‘07:
P.6., the ‘You tell Us!’ section: “My opinion on the writers’ strike? Let them make $12 an hour, supporting a family and working their butts off like my husband does, and then I’ll feel sorry for them. — L.DaC., Highland, Ind.”
There’s a lady with an abundance of free-floating aggression. I guess she doesn’t know about $5,000 being the mean annual income from writing for WGA members.
Even if 50% of WGA members are inactive in any given year, for some reason, that only doubles the mean income of active members to $10,000. If 80% are inactive, then the mean income of active members rises to $25,000, and that’s about what $12/hr with a 40 hour week and a 50 week year brings in. I’m not sure the lady did the math.
I found it a very strange selection of reader input to put on the write-in page, especially seeing that it had been preceded by:
“Week after week in TV Guide, I find something written in the You Tell Us, Cheers & Jeers or Is It Just Me columns regarding similar plots, rehashed jokes and copycat crimes all over network television. So it seems to me the striking writers haven’t exactly been earning their keep. — B.M., Londonderry, NH”
The selection of letters to publish says as much about TV Guide as it does about the readers, don’t you think? And about who TV Guide sees as buttering THEIR bread.
tw3k @ 18
Heil!!
BobbyG @ 13
Privatization is the key!
musicsleuth — I loved this video. Had never seen this performance before, and Ella and the entire band are amazing in it. Excellent stuff…
War On War Off @ 12
I always wish whoever is listening in a “Happy (insert holiday)”
Christy Hardin Smith @ 23
It is an amazing video, and I had skipped it entirely until you reminded us about it in the comments…thanks!
behindthefall @ 20
FWIW, I believe the $5K figure is the median (mid-point where half of writers earn more and half earn less) not the Mean (average).
My bet would be that it’s “classified.”
Wonder if filing FOI requests would be worth trying…?
Hey Christy,
Must be nice having those Mountaineers almost in for the National Championship!
Go Mountaineers!
War On War Off @ 27
Could be drug money laundering…could be anything. What about S.E.C. records?
Mad Dogs at 28 — Shhhhhhh….we still have to play Pitt. One game at a time.
(And GO MOUNTAINEERS!)
Smgumby @ 22
Read my 10 year old grad thesis draft. Substitute “war on terror” for “war on drugs” and most of the argument is unchanged (”Overwhelming Exigent Problem / Due Process Won’t Work / Unfettered Surveillance Will“). The feds loved using the private sector to ferret out drug use without any 4th Amendment constraint. Diff’rent Day, Same Shit.
BobbyG @ 31
Exactly.
BobbyG @ 13
I believe there are mandatory per event fines for private entities under Title 18 that could be substantial, depending on how “event” is defined.
Now, the firefighters are told to spy on us, since they don’t need warrants to enter your house.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 8
My wifes uncle was road mgr. for Ella for many years. Lots and lots of stories.
BlueMesa @ 33
Hence the rush for total retroactive indemnity.
OT CNN “Breaking News” headline Bush says he’ll work towards Mideast Peace
dakine01 @ 37
I have here for sale a used bridge that will go nicely with that headline.
dakine — Froomkin has some thoughts on that, too…
P J Evans @ 38
Especially when the headline on the article itself is ” U.S. cannot impose vision on Mideast, Bush says”
dakine01 @ 37
Oy. Invasion of Palestine anticipated. Gotta get the right regime.
BobbyG @ 36
Exactly. Your tax dollars and mine will be used to pay the judgments against private companies for past actions, plus prospective immunity so that no damages accrue for future actions. Have any of the Democratic presidential candidates spoken out about this? I mean the indemnification and prospective immunity parts, I know Dodd, et al have spoken out about retroactive immunity.
LS @ 29
Hi
This is simple Taxpayers/Us and the scary part is who has control of it.
jo6pac
Thanks for the Ella links
While I’m thinking about it, starting Friday, I’m taking a couple of weeks of “recharge the batteries” time and will be back mi-December once the bulk of the cookies and wrapping are taken care of… Wanted to give folks a heads up beforehand. :)
I have yet to be convinced the frontrunners have any comprehension of it.
BlueMesa @ 42
I believe that Senator Dodd has stated pretty emphatically that he is against amnesty/immunity.
Dodd has — he requested a hold on any of the FISA legislation that contains any telecom immunity provision whatsoever. So that’s one that I know of for certain. And I think Edwards has made a statement as well — will see if I can find it.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 44
If anyone has earned it, you have! Have a good pre-Christmas post-Thanksgiving break!
Christy Hardin Smith @ 44
Well deserved!!!
Christy Hardin Smith @ 47
Sorry I hit “submit” too soon. I thought that they had just focused on the retroactive immunity provision, but not on indemnification or prospective immunity. I may be wrong.
Bush: Ahmadinijad is a man who doesn’t believe in freedom, democracy, and peace….
And you do?????!!!
Bwahahahahahahaha!!! Psych!!!
BlueMesa — Not 100 percent on that one, but I know that Feingold for certain has talked about that in very clear terms that it is neither advisable nor appropriate given the circumstances to reward companies for breaking the law, retroactively or prospectively. Among a lot of other issues that he’s hit on this — he’s really worked his tail off, and mostly behind the scenes, for constitutional and rule of law protections on this. Leahy has done a lot as well.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 44
First TRex, now Christy. My world is crumbling! Have a great break. You’ve definitely earned it.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 44
Sounds like fun but you’ll surely be missed. Guess I won’t have to rush next Sat AM for PAC.
Have been thinking about you today. My twin and her hubby had to put down their 12 yr.old mini Dach, Molly. You’re one of the few people I know who would understand how special that little girl was to all of us.
Will certainly miss watching her go for her Christmas stocking. She always remembered where it had been hung the previous year and we would tease her by moving hers.
Take lots of pictures folks. They’re a comfort when you lose loved ones of all breeds.
JF — Well, it’s only a little break. I have Christmas decorations to wrangle and Salvation Army stockings to fill up and get ready for some needy kids, and lots of other stuff to do. And The Peanut needs some undivided momma attention…
Jane (NYC) — Actually, egregious is covering PUAC for me. So I’m sure it will be lovely…
Christy Hardin Smith @ 44
Take Care, Christy.
(I’ve spent the week doing deep cleaning. Also, preparing for the holidays. Mother and sisters coming. You know how it is.)
Enjoy the creative nurturing that you and the peanut will experience.
FYI, when my kids were little, I did a arts’ncrafts project with them involving brown draft paper and decorating — string painting, glitter, apple prints. And, then when we wrapped presents for the Family, we used the wrapping paper they designed.
Twine or yarn works well for ribbons.
:) Again, enjoy and we’ll see you in a few…
Christy Hardin Smith @ 55
Understood. Too few of us get real breaks. And when we do, we seem to find a way to fill them.
Oh, Jane, I just saw your doxie comment. I’m so sorry. *sniffle* And I know exactly what you are saying…
You guys will get a kick out of this: The Peanut is practicing the Pleadge of Allegiance at the moment. They learned it at preschool this week. It is too adorable coming out of a 4 year old. *g*
Kagro X talks about “holds” and other procedural “stuff” with FISA
kos
It will be “interesting” to see what Harry Reid brings up for a vote after the Senate returns from its holiday.
As well as “how” Harry sets the stage for voting on the FISA Update and any amendments.
Harry Reid has been mucho quiet about his position wrt FISA ever since Chris Dodd announced his intention to place a hold on the SSCI version of the FISA Update.
Based on his past performances, I’d expect Senator Reid to cry some “crocodile tears” as he sandbags Senator Dodd et al, and somehow allows the SSCI version with its Retroactive Immunity to pass under a simple majority vote.
Why Harry can even vote against it himself, all the while enabling a Repug-based majority to sell off our 4th Amendment rights for a mere pittance.
BlueMesa @ 48
Second that emotion. However, I’m not sure how your on-line family will get thru the stress without you. *g*
eCAHN — Hugs, hon. Here’s something to get you through…
Christy,
Re my post at #57, you won’t get a Saturday am post before that…but maybe you can sneak in a post about low-budget, kid-friendly, peaceful holiday projects…I bet you’d get a lot of Good Ideas.
I wonder if someone will make Joe Klein sit in and listen since he doesn’t know squat about FISA in his reporting. He could definitely learn something. Of course, that’s not in his job description!
Christy Hardin Smith @ 64
Perfect!
tw3k @ 18
OMG, I used to sit in Think Coffee and write FDL posts.
I kid you not. So Mike Chertoff’s got people reading my emails then? Damn. He knows me in my real life.
Christy, I hope you, Mr ReddHead and Peanut have a wonderful break. It’s a great time to take a vacation, with everyone else running around trying to catch up with folks at holiday parties, work parties, & party parties. Best wishes to you all!
OT..I’m shocked!!
BREAKING: State Department official Iraq update is really compilation of plagiarized major media articles
link
Gulp. Is it true that any of us who make regular phone calls abroad can be spied on without a warrant?
Christy Hardin Smith @ 60
I had a HS classmate in southern Illinois whose kid came home like that. When he recited it for his dad, it ended, “. . . with liberty for just us, y’all.” Despite the dad’s serious GOP leanings, he corrected his son.
Steve-AR @ 70
Saw that earlier. Wondered why it took someone so long to figure it out. This DC crew is really pathetic.
mui @ 71
And then all the people you talk to are targets and the pattern seems to keep branching.
I’m curious. Has the Salvation Army stopped being homophobic? Didn’t they throw those NYC women out of their homes? (Not trying to be a pissant…)
Christy @ 44
Your morning threads will be missed, but Christmas is the crazy season at home!
OT - On every “issue” that I have seen on web today, Dodd seems to get it right. Issues that the other candidates won’t touch.
Peterr @ 72
It really pissed me off when I had to relearn it..when they put in “Under God”,
OT:
Huckabee leading in Iowa: Link
All the money and the year long ad campaign seems to be failing ol’ Mitt.
looseheadprop @ 68
If he’s got any brains, that ought to make him very nervous. “Oh damn, we’re going up against the legendary LHP in court next week!”
eCAHNomics @ 73
Folks, they footnoted their sources here — it’s not plagarism. You can call them out on other things with this document, but not plagarism.
[edit: meant to make that two separate comments. Preview is my friend . . .
I wondered how long it would take for someone to mention “under God”.
(it took 14 minutes)
CCR Video for Fox News.
War On War Off @ 75
Probably not and they have a religious “test”. On the other hand they aren’t sucking off money for high salaries and fancy trips. They actually help people..I give them money.
looseheadprop @ 68
lol.
Good! Probably the best way to get DHS to read about the Constitution. :)
Don’t miss Politico’s expose of how Giuliani billed us taxpayers for his trysts.
Giuliani’s tryst bills
Peterr,
I don’t think Mike is afraid of me, I think if he thinks of me at all, it is with the same kind of disdain I feel for him. He used to call me naive and a bleeding heart.
Christy, you wrote,
This is great news! And thanks for your continuing work on this subject! What I would like to see emerge from this discussion is something like what the Congressional Progressive Caucus came up with a couple of months ago: a list of about 9 “Principles” to evaluate any legislation. It was on their website. An updated set of such principles would be useful now.
Aloha,
Bob
I wasn’t even thinking about plagiarism, it was the feed-back loop of Gov to MSM and back. No primary data from State Dept, just recycle the swill.
Steve-AR @ 74
My signif other and I were talking line kept making so much noise. At one point he said something about gov. And we talked about how pathetic it would be for them to spy on poor old us since we are a couple (wink). At that point the line hung up. In fact it kept doing that afterwards. My signif says, ok this is getting really creepy.
Christy @ 44: Well, that’s worse than the NYT saying it would be dropping the crossword puzzle! (It hasn’t said that; just a comparison.) You’ll be missed every day.
(Wondered how you managed without a break.) Have a very good time. Best wishes to you and your closests.
Didn’t catch that there were footnotes. Still, does State Dept not know anything about Iraq that is not in MSM? Still say they’re pathetic.
looseheadprop @ 85
Ugh, he sounds nasty. Besides, it’s his emails he should be worried about.
ot: my new fav wga strike video featuring edie falco and an inside joke for those who watched “The Sopranos” series finale…(and only 30 seconds long!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....gspot.com/
mui @ 88
That is so last century, now they just suck everything off at the Telco trunks and let computer software sort it out.
Steve-AR @ 70
I guess the DoS folks managed to convince Condi “Still technically a virgin” Rice that there is really no need to actually go over and serve in Iraq, ’cause “they can get all the same facts” right here at home.
And Condi “Still technically a virgin” Rice can claim a “two-fer” ’cause of all the money she’s saving on their travel.
Our gubmint, always thinkin’ of the neatest ways to provide us services!
Steve-AR @ 77
I remember my suspicious little elementary school mind saying to itself, “How does Eisenhower know what God thinks of us?”
LS @ 91
He has publicly stated that he won’t use emails, cause emails are forever.
Steve-AR @ 93
Still. Paranoia in Asia is. . . Don’t know all the rumors. Heard some. Like there’s a whole ridiculous list of words one should or shouldn”t say when calling the US.
looseheadprop @ 96
That figures.
bobschacht @ 86
Bob, do you have that Priming the Pump wiki link handy?
behindthefall @ 20