Morning.

Blue Texan!

Hey Blue Texan!

Too slow

Howdy.

bush-lite, more commonly known as the clintons, are not the answer. they are part of the problem.

don’t be pussy, vote for kooch.

They’ll say ANYTHING. I’ve had enough of this.

Classic Clintonian triangulation.

He thought we needed to take some sort of action to nail down the Iraqi WMD question, but didn’t like the way Bush was going about it. When faced with the choice of supporting or opposing Bush’s war in 2002, he split the difference.

When he thought things were going well, he claimed to have supported taking action in Iraq. When he realized things were going poorly, suddenly his memories about all of his reservations came flooding back.

I know a lot of people who’ve gone through this mental process.

As you might imagine, the Big Dawg’s position on Iraq is classic Clintonian trianglulation:

At a speech before the Council on Foreign Relations in June 2002, Clinton said unequivocally that Saddam Hussein “has laboratories working to produce chemical and biological weapons.” He then asked himself — and answered for himself — a series of questions about what it all meant. “So would it be a good idea if [Saddam] weren’t there? And were replaced by someone committed to a responsible course with regard to weapons of mass destruction? Yes. Would it be a good idea if the people of Iraq weren’t siding with him, since he’s a murderer and a thug? Yes. Should we unilaterally attack him? Well, that depends.”

Elaborating later in response to a question, Clinton said: “First of all, there are all kinds of logistical problems with a full-scale military invasion if that’s what we want to do … But it clearly could be done, and it wouldn’t be that much [of a] problem if you could take the resources away from other things and you want to spend a fortune, you could do that. I just believe, looking down the road, the most important thing is to get our priorities in order. I don’t have any use for Saddam Hussein. And I’ve already told you: I think he’s got the labs up and going. And he kicked the inspectors out. So he’s in violation of U.N. rules. And they are actually doing bad things there; I’m convinced of it. But I think what you have to ask yourself is, in what order do we have to deal with this? He has no missiles to put warheads on that would reach us. The only missile he’s ever used [was] on his neighbors … and he used mustard gas on his own people … but he fired some Scuds into Israel after he was attacked in the Gulf War. So what I think is, A, let’s … make the most intense possible efforts to build a legitimate peace process and have diminishing of the violence in the Middle East between the Arabs, the Palestinians and the Israelis. B, is look at what our options are, and try to find a way to do whatever we do with as much of a coalition as possible, and not unilaterally. Without giving up the right to take unilateral action if the intelligence indicates it’s the right thing to do. That’s basically what I think we ought to do. But the most important thing I have to say is hear the right message coming out of the Arab summit, show them that we heard them, emphasize getting a peace process in the Middle East first.”

The earliest comment from the big dog on Iraq that I remember was “I wouldn’t have done it”. Can’t remember how soon after the invasion that remark was made.

Hillary’s vote was certainly calculated. If the damned thing was a great success and she voted against it- she could never be prez. If, on the other hand, it failed and she voted in favor- she still had a chance.

Since her vote was not going to make the difference in whether or not the authorization passed, she was free to take politics into consideration and she did.

At least that’s how I read it.

it pissed me off too when I saw the headline at Huffington yesterday …. I don’t remember him saying anything, nada, nothing of caution or critique about the invasion of Iraq

thankful for the tubes that documents it all

Oh, and how thoughtful of him to defend Bush against “the left.” Like we’ve had any power since FDR, and we need to be defended against. Screw off, Clintons.

Yet another reason I don’t support Hillary Clinton. This was nothing less than a clumsy attempt to rewrite history. Combined with her DLC credentials, her unwillingness to admit she was wrong on Iraq, and my general distaste for dynasties (the thought of Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton… gives me the shivers), Hillary Clinton is the last Democratic candidate I want to support.

I have a friend who voted for Bush “just a little bit.”
Regret does a funny thing to the brain.

Biodun

That quote sounds pretty clear to me- “don’t invade- there are other ways of solving this problem.”

Just goes to show that almost all of what passes for the political leadership in our country believes that the past is mallable. Either that or they believe that we have the attention span of a goldfish(3 seconds).

This is why I think Team Billary will be a disaster — they want to party (and a party) like it’s 1996.

Oh, they show up, BlueTexan. At GHWB’s side. Enabling the Boy W. As they have done for the last 7 years. Bubba and Dubya…the step brothers Grimm.

rwcole @ 15:

Here’s the triangulation:

As Bush marched toward war, Clinton gave a speech on the legacy of Winston Churchill in England on March 8, 2003. On Iraq, he said that he thought Churchill would advise the United States not to “give up the force option … because there is a lot of chemical and biological material there. You can always kill someone tomorrow or next week or next month; we can’t bring them back to life; we can try one more time to get a schedule for disarmament.”

Eleven days later, on March 19, 2003, President Bush announced that war had begun.

In a speech the next week,” Clinton said that he expected that “this conflict in Iraq will not last long,” and that while people may have “different feelings about the facts of how it came about,” it was time to pray for the troops and the president “who has to make the calls.”

“This was a hard case,” Clinton said. “You could argue this, flat or round, up or down. I personally think it’s very important to get rid of the chemical and biological stocks in Iraq. But I think it’s also important that America be a leading force for bringing the world together. There are plenty of people out there trying to tear it apart. And so, I wouldn’t be too upset about that. We just need to get this business over with, get rid of those chemical and biological weapons, and get back to the business of creating the 21st century world we want.”

In the ensuing days and weeks, Clinton said that he “disagreed” with France’s decision to stay out of the war and sympathized with Tony Blair’s ultimate decision to get in.

(Same link as my 9.)

Ed White @ 13

Yet another reason I don’t support Hillary Clinton. This was nothing less than a clumsy attempt to rewrite history. Combined with her DLC credentials, her unwillingness to admit she was wrong on Iraq, and my general distaste for dynasties (the thought of Bush=Clinton=Bush=Clinton… gives me the shivers), Hillary Clinton is the last Democratic candidate I want to support.

Fixed.

Ed White @ 13

Yet another reason I don’t support Hillary Clinton. This was nothing less than a clumsy attempt to rewrite history.

Agreed. We need to move on. The days of “didn’t inhale / definition-of-’is‘” should be tossed in the ditch.

Bio

Sounds like in the first quote, Clinton was advising against going to war- because there were other ways of dealing with the issue.

In the second quote, after the war had already started he was saying “Well one might have a different opinion about what should be done- but our troops are goin in so we should support the effort.”

The more I think about this, the more it pisses me off. The Republicans suck up to their base in the most shameless manner, but does any Democrat pay even lip service to us, the most passionate, involved segment of our party?

More and more, I’m inclined to vote for Dennis Kucinich. He may never be President, but at least he talks the talk.

See, this is why I don’t like the Clintons. Everything is a political calculation. Word games to try to gloss over past mistakes.

There’s no concern for America there, just personal ambition.

I sure hope somebody other than Hillary wins the Dem nomination. Cause if she wins, I’ll have to seriously consider voting Republican and hoping that Dem majorities in the House and senate keep things in line.

Boxturtle(And I do NOT want to do that)

Here’s the only thing that would work for me: speaking precisely about not invading Iran. In other words, I would be willing to accept the idea that they made a mistake if and only if it was clear they learned from that mistake. President Clinton’s statement doesn’t do that for me.

Lots of people don’t favor Hillary- me included- but if she wins the nomination, I’ll work my ass off for her. The alternative is not acceptable—Goopers pickin judges for another eight years.

I am NOT a Clinton supporter, but I feel like I remember Big Dawg Clinton saying like, get Osama first. . . Will try to dig up something and see if it matches my memory. (Given memory is a strange and malleable thing.)

O/T -

So, Asscroft says waterboarding is OK, and that he would undergo it.

Prove it, motherfucker.

rwcole @ 26

Lots of people don’t favor Hillary- me included- but if she wins the nomination, I’ll work my ass off for her. The alternative is not acceptable—Goopers pickin judges for another eight years.

The Goopers are scary enough this year to make any progressive want to stand at a polling place rain or snow or beating hot sun this year.

Good Morning Blue Texan and Pups.

I haven’t had much time for the toobz lately, but I’ve really enjoyed your posts, BT, and plan to return to catch all of them when I can.

I spec’ I’m going to take some heat by saying anything, but I was just EPU’d below with relevant thots from a different angle. So I’m bringing them up here, fwiw. Fire away, dawgs. I’ve got tough hide. *g*
…
EPU’d downstairs & relevant here:

I’ve been heartened at the anger and interest out there in the populace. My major fears are that people will get so-o-o angry and frustrated, that an abundance of negative emotion will tip them over into a feeling of hopelessness, and they will not bother to vote.

We MUST encourage, enable, badger, whatever-it-takes, get these angry people to vote!

Another worry: that the repubbles will be successful in their nasty little efforts to get people to think, “Everyone does it. Throw ALL the bums out.” I think that sort of feeling, if it spreads, is alarming and dangerous. We should nip it in the bud wherever we can, however we can, even if it’s just by talking one-on-one with the overly-wrought negative folk we encounter.

We MUST have as many GOOD incumbents as possible re-elected. Washington is going to need their experience to counteract the power of the K-Street machine. Translation: Would you rather Lott run the country from capitol hill or K St., or NOT. AT. ALL? We need to de-fuse &/or dilute influence like his.

Rahm aside, we need to stay within the Democratic Party, when and if at all possible.

Yes, OKK. I luvs ya dearly, but if it does come down to Hill. vs. a repubble, please please please admit you’ll hold yer nose & vote, or at least hush about her till the electin’s done.

[go ahead, OKK. SMACK me across the forehead now & get it over with. *cringes*]

We GET it, o.k. OKK? But what you’re saying can be picked up as ever-so-much more cannon fodder by the repubbles. Please please don’t give them that on a silver platter. Perfection ain’t in the cards in politics, EVER. We gotta go with the best we kin git, eh?! Yes, it’s that important to bend just a bit if we must, for the greater prize.

As for Rahm, and mebbe Chuckie Schu if he doesn’t behave, I kinda like War On War Off’s delightful vignette from dear Molly Ivins (#68 directly downstairs at CHS’s post), heh.

Disclaimer: all the above under my moniker are just random thots from an idgit. Ignore at will, or at yer peril - whatever. I shall keep marching anyway.

- born stubborn…. ;->

rwcole @ 26

Lots of people don’t favor Hillary- me included- but if she wins the nomination, I’ll work my ass off for her. The alternative is not acceptable—Goopers pickin judges for another eight years.

And that is the ONLY reason I might support her. Reluctantly. And only because the current senate seems to have surrendered to Bush.

Boxturtle(Someday, I hope to vote FOR someone rather than vote against their opponent)

chrisc @ 14

I have a friend who voted for Bush “just a little bit.”
Regret does a funny thing to the brain.

heh, as in “just a little bit pregs?” gotcha *g*

I support Edwards, but if Hillary gets the nomination I’ll hold my nose and vote for her. I’ve never voted Repug in my life, local, state, or national, and ain’t no way in hell I’m gonna change that.

Both Clinton’s can go to hell they are both Repbulcians in practice, just not the fire and brimstone type.

Here is Clinton’s side of the story.

link

I think he was trying to split the difference but it is unusual for a ex-President to undercut the President on issues of “national security.”

-ck- @ 17

This is why I think Team Billary will be a disaster — they want to party (and a party) like it’s 1996.

like we don’t have a disaster NOW???

perspective, people….

It really is just a bloody game to them.

Biodun @ 33

I support Edwards, but if Hillary gets the nomination I’ll hold my nose and vote for her. I’ve never voted Repug in my life, local, state, or national, and ain’t no way in hell I’m gonna change that.

I voted for Holy Joe in 2000. I apologize.

Hillary got ratings on her voting record of “zero” from most gooper groups. She is a long ways from a gooper. She got very high ratings on her record from most liberal groups.

I’d rather have Rudy for President than Hillary. It would kickstart a revoluton instead of postposting it again.

“Ashcroft Willing to be Waterboarded”

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/.....erboarded/

The sound you hear is Cheney, Bush, Gonzales and Card smacking their heads.

hayduke

That’s what many said about Nixon.

Nixon led to Ford which led to one term of Carter- that was the extent of the “revolution”.

I don’t think that approach works- historically.

More of the Big Dawg:

A year later [in 2004] — as polls showed that a majority of Americans disapproved of the way Bush was handling Iraq — Time asked Clinton if he thought the president had been right to invade. His answer:

“You know, I have repeatedly defended President Bush against the left on Iraq, even though I think he should have waited until the U.N. inspections were over. I don’t believe he went in there for oil. We didn’t go in there for imperialist or financial reasons. We went in there because he bought the Wolfowitz-Cheney analysis that the Iraqis would be better off, we could shake up the authoritarian Arab regimes in the Middle East, and our leverage to make peace between the Palestinians and Israelis would be increased.

“At the moment the U.N. inspectors were kicked out in ‘98, this is the proper language: there were substantial quantities of botulinum and aflatoxin, as I recall, some bioagents, I believe there were those, and VX and ricin, chemical agents, unaccounted for. Keep in mind, that’s all we ever had to work on. We also thought there were a few missiles, some warheads, and maybe a very limited amount of nuclear laboratory capacity.

“After 9/11, let’s be fair here, if you had been president, you’d think, ‘Well, this fellow bin Laden just turned these three airplanes full of fuel into weapons of mass destruction,’ right? Arguably they were super-powerful chemical weapons. Think about it that way. So, you’re sitting there as president, you’re reeling in the aftermath of this, so, yeah, you want to go get bin Laden and do Afghanistan and all that. But you also have to say, ‘Well, my first responsibility now is to try everything possible to make sure that this terrorist network and other terrorist networks cannot reach chemical and biological weapons or small amounts of fissile material. I’ve got to do that.’

“That’s why I supported the Iraq thing. There was a lot of stuff unaccounted for. So I thought the President had an absolute responsibility to go to the U.N. and say, ‘Look, guys, after 9/11, you have got to demand that Saddam Hussein let us finish the inspection process.’ You couldn’t responsibly ignore [the possibility that] a tyrant had these stocks. I never really thought he’d [use them]. What I was far more worried about was that he’d sell this stuff or give it away … So that’s why I thought Bush did the right thing to go back. When you’re the president, and your country has just been through what we had, you want everything to be accounted for.”

So was the war worth the cost?

“It’s a judgment that no one can make definitively yet,” Clinton told Time in that 2004 interview. “I would not have done it until after Hans Blix finished his job. Having said that, over 600 of our people have died since the conflict was over. We’ve got a big stake now in making it work. I want it to have been worth it, even though I didn’t agree with the timing of the attack. I think if you have a pluralistic, secure, stable Iraq, the people of Iraq will be better off, and it might help the process of internal reform in Saudi Arabia and elsewhere. I think right now, getting rid of Saddam’s tyranny, ironically, has made Iraq more vulnerable to terrorism coming in from the outside. But any open society is going to be more vulnerable than any tyranny to that.”

Come to your own conclusions.

(Same link as the others.)

I really don’t understand how Bill C can be so nice and polite to people who have done their best to put him (and his family) in h*ll for the last twelve years, to the point where he won’t even say, straight out, that they are wrong about anything, even when it’s clear that they’ve been lying throught their bleached-and-straightened teeth.

Don’t like Hillary, but will vote for her if she gets nominated. I’d prefer Edwards or Dodd.
Don’t like Kucinich, he’s way too fluffy for me - anyone who talks, even speculatively, about Paul as a potential running mate is off my list.

Pythagoras has nothing on the Clintons. They are incommensurable.

rwcole @ 39

Hillary got ratings on her voting record of “zero” from most gooper groups. She is a long ways from a gooper. She got very high ratings on her record from most liberal groups.

I just wish I could easily do a song and dance at the polling places as I did for Lamont. “A vote for Hillary is a vote against George Bush”(?) sounds compromised. It screws with my sense of integrity.

“The things that I can survive, if it were necessary to do them to me, I would do,” he said.”

Ashcroft of waterboarding- not exactly eager to get strapped down.

It’d be much better for progressive moral if Edwards or Dodd got the nomination IMHO.

Re Al Hubbard resigning as chairman of the National Economic Council now that the economy is tanking from a couple of threads below, he was apparently for privatization of Social Security, against the bill on SCHIP, and for taxing healthcare benefits as income. He was in short a thug, one of many that the Bush Administration appointed and who lurk throughout the government doing their best to sabotage the goals of the agencies and departments where they work.

rwcole @ 39

Hillary got ratings on her voting record of “zero” from most gooper groups. She is a long ways from a gooper. She got very high ratings on her record from most liberal groups.

That is a rather awkward fact for the Hillary Gooper-lite meme.

hayduke @ 40

I’d rather have Rudy for President than Hillary. It would kickstart a revoluton instead of postposting it again.

Ghouliani as President would be very bad. And, he would ruthlessly suppress any attempts at “revolution” in a manner even Bu’ush would lack the balls to undertake.

Look, the Clintons are hawks. Now, it’s okay to be a hawk, but don’t be a hawk and say you’re a dove, when everyone can plainly see you’re a hawk.

hayduke @ 40

I’d rather have Rudy for President than Hillary. It would kickstart a revoluton instead of postposting it again.

You’ve got to be kidding…

Calling Henry Waxman, Mr Rove is on line 2

http://blog.washingtonpost.com.....ut_of.html

Bill Clinton, wanker of the day.

War On War Off @ 37

It really is just a bloody game to them.

I’m not thrilled with them either, but I just flat-out do. not. agree. with you on this point.

It is possible for a skilled candidate to chuckle and assume a confident countenance, and still be very very serious indeed, inside as well as looking into the future.
IF it comes down to Hill, I hope I hope I hope she fits into that category.

Face it. None of us knows for sure how ANY of the candidates would do in what looks to be a wickedly difficult situation left behind by the present administration. I have tremendous concerns also about electing a person competent to tackle the job.

Steve-AR @ 50

rwcole @ 39

Hillary got ratings on her voting record of “zero” from most gooper groups. She is a long ways from a gooper. She got very high ratings on her record from most liberal groups.

That is a rather awkward fact for the Hillary Gooper-lite meme.

I expect it would be a different story if she were a registered Republican instead of a DINO.

not to put too fine a point on it, but ast has been said here and elsewhere, bill clinton was the finest republican president of my lifetime.

why anyone even modestly left of center should feel anything like appreciation for the man is beyond me.

and hillary makes, well, even less sense.

mui @ 27

I am NOT a Clinton supporter, but I feel like I remember Big Dawg Clinton saying like, get Osama first. . . Will try to dig up something and see if it matches my memory. (Given memory is a strange and malleable thing.)

Is this it?

I supported the President when he asked the Congress for authority to stand up against weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. I have strongly supported the efforts in Afghanistan and I would be happy if they would send more troops there because that’s where the real problem is. But we cannot forever be strong abroad unless we’re getting better at home. Forming a more perfect union. There are things you’re supposed to do.

When the Pope died, Chimpy sent his dad and the Big Dawg to the funeral to represent the US, but not Carter, the only president to have met the Pope when he visited the US. The excuse was that there was not enough room on the plane.

Shorter Bill Clinton and in much the same vein: I did not have war with that Iraq.

Well yes, If Hillary were a gooper- she would probably vote with the goopers- but she’s not- and she doesn’t.

Shorter Bill Clinton and in much the same vein: I did not have war with that Iraq.

Damnit, that would’ve been a great headline.

This hasn’t drawn much comment: Hillary’s Secret Weapon: Colin Powell?

Steve-AR @ 59

mui @ 27

I am NOT a Clinton supporter, but I feel like I remember Big Dawg Clinton saying like, get Osama first. . . Will try to dig up something and see if it matches my memory. (Given memory is a strange and malleable thing.)

Is this it?

I supported the President when he asked the Congress for authority to stand up against weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. I have strongly supported the efforts in Afghanistan and I would be happy if they would send more troops there because that’s where the real problem is. But we cannot forever be strong abroad unless we’re getting better at home. Forming a more perfect union. There are things you’re supposed to do.

Heh. That quote makes me sweat.

Yeah, great. Let’s get Powell to do another PPT at the UN.

This is a man who plays to win–and he wins. He wins at cards, for example. And he thinks ahead–to that moment when, for instance, he would need to be seen as having been plausibly prescient about the gains and losses of invading Iraq before the deed was done (knowing full well that the deed would indeed be done). And now he collects on his play (since he cannot be credibly numbered among the warmongers).

For what it’s worth, I’ve come to admire the speed and skill of the man’s calculations: they won him a presidential nomination, two terms in office, and a daily reprieve from the assassination-attempts of his busy, bumbling detractors (none of whom prospered in opposing him). And now he’s the most powerful politician in the country, if not the entire world.

And while none of this may be interesting, the fact remains that he kept us out of wars–in the very same way that Eisenhower kept us out of wars (and, like Eisenhower, he also kept the military budget under a semblance of control… And while we’re at it, let’s not forget that Eisenhower, graduating at the middle of his class at West Point, was by far the most proficient of poker players in those parts).

I find this all very admirable–but then I’m neither a soldier, a politician, nor a card-player.

Blue Texan @ 66

Yeah, great. Let’s get Powell to do another PPT at the UN.

I would have thought the same factor would have him hiding his head in the sand.

Biodun @ 53

hayduke @ 40

I’d rather have Rudy for President than Hillary. It would kickstart a revoluton instead of postposting it again.

You’ve got to be kidding…

That was my visceral reaction as well. And, flip talk about “revolution” ignores the potential for bloody catastrophe.

Blue Texan @ 63

Shorter Bill Clinton and in much the same vein: I did not have war with that Iraq.

Damnit, that would’ve been a great headline.

Next time, Gadget, next time.

mui @ 38

- just had a flashback to a Seinfeld episode, heh.

“OMG! I’m so sorry! REALLY sorry!”

Hi. My name is Adie. Thanks for caring enough to make that admission. We’re all recovering in some fashion or other here, from this or that.

-um- but, please don’t ever do that again! ‘kay? ;->

And how will anti-war Democratic voters in Iowa, New Hampshire and elsewhere feel about Mrs. Clinton’s suggestion that she wants one of the architects of the Iraq war to serve as a goodwill ambassador?

I don’t care if Powell had a good reputation once. The UN presentation in my view was a major strike out. Goodwill embarrassment presents fake mobile nuke labs again? No!

rwcole @ 22

Bio

Sounds like in the first quote, Clinton was advising against going to war- because there were other ways of dealing with the issue.

In the second quote, after the war had already started he was saying “Well one might have a different opinion about what should be done- but our troops are goin in so we should support the effort.”

my bold.

i don’t see what the fucking issue was.

Wow. Big arrest of terror suspects in Saudi Arabia.

Adie @ 70

mui @ 38

- just had a flashback to a Seinfeld episode, heh.

“OMG! I’m so sorry! REALLY sorry!”

Hi. My name is Adie. Thanks for caring enough to make that admission. We’re all recovering in some fashion or other here, from this or that.

-um- but, please don’t ever do that again! ‘kay? ;->

‘kay! *sob, tears*

Hugh @ 61

Shorter Bill Clinton and in much the same vein: I did not have war with that Iraq.

707

All this just makes Dodd look better. Someone remind me again why he isn’t electable?

Hey, gang:

I just thought I’ll say that this is a great discussion on this thread. Different opinions but everyone’s polite. No nastiness. Just thought I’d say that. Jane and Christy would be quite proud…

Here’s something from a BBC 2004 Interview relevant to Clinton’s position on Iraq.

” I didn’t have any profound difference with the (Bush Administration) policy until it was decided to invade Iraq before the UN Weapons Inspection process was finished because Hans Blix I have a very high regard for, he was very tough on Saddam. He was very explicit when they weren’t fully cooperating and I thought we should get a chance to finish.

I also always felt that Bin Laden and Al Qaeda were a far, far bigger threat and in the early days I worried about whether we had enough troops in Afghanistan and whether we wouldn’t weaken our ability to stabilise President Karzai’s regime, prevent the Taliban and some
of the opium growing warlords from resorting their, restoring their power. So that’s kind of where I differed.

DIMBLEBY: So what you’re saying is you were opposed to the invasion of Iraq?

CLINTON: What I am saying is I believe that we should have led the.. I would have supported the invasion of Iraq, whether or not we’d had UN opposition, if the UN inspectors had finished their job and Han Blix had said they won’t cooperate.

The point is we were there under the authority of the UN resolution that was about the weapons inspections so I believe that we should have let them finish. Now we are where we are, an Amer.. you know, I’m an American first and the minute the President wants the investigation( ? invasion?) I was for the troops and the mission and I did believe that when it was over we should have immediately moved to internationalise it, finally that has been done. We’re moving to give the sovereignty back to the Iraqis and that we have a new UN resolution for internationalising it, I think that they’re moving er, in the right direction now. We still got a lot of tough days ahead, I mean, you know, but I think basically we’re moving in the right direction now.

Adie @ 71

mui @ 38

- just had a flashback to a Seinfeld episode, heh.

“OMG! I’m so sorry! REALLY sorry!”

Hi. My name is Adie. Thanks for caring enough to make that admission. We’re all recovering in some fashion or other here, from this or that.

-um- but, please don’t ever do that again! ‘kay? ;->

Oh wait, are you saying don’t vote that way again or never make an admission. I love testifyin. But vote for Holy Joe again? I’d rather chew my hand off first.

Biodun @ 60

When the Pope died, Chimpy sent his dad and the Big Dawg to the funeral to represent the US, but not Carter, the only president to have met the Pope when he visited the US. The excuse was that there was not enough room on the plane.

Protocol is not Georgie’s long suit. He’s such a donkey.

BobbyG @ 69

Biodun @ 53

You’ve got to be kidding…

That was my visceral reaction as well. And, flip talk about “revolution” ignores the potential for bloody catastrophe.

And don’t forget about at least one S Ct. judge probably waiting for retirement.

1,672 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..

Citizen Blue Texan:

It’s time to cleanse the Democratic Party of the Clintons…call Mrs. Clinton on her pro-war record and take the Big Dog down in Iowa by callin’ Al Gore in to campaign for John Edwards. A twofer…we got both of the bastards in 1992 so let’s get rid of ‘em in 2008!!

And Citizen rwcole…”if Hilary were a gooper-she would probably vote with the goopers- but she’s not-and she doesn’t.” So that makes her a what…a Republicrat, a vacuous stuffed skirt, a late night talk show host, what? It sure doesn’t make her a political leader or a person to take the reigns of power in the country’s most dangerous hour.

KEEP THE FAITH AND DON’T BELIEVE A THING THEY TELL YA AND ONLY HALF A WHAT THEY SHOW YA!!

I didn’t have any profound difference with the (Bush Administration) policy until it was decided to invade Iraq before the UN Weapons Inspection process was finished

this from the guy who pulled the inspectors so he could bomb iraq in a failed attempt at “regime change”

i know it’s not fair to senator clinton - but one of the reason i can’t support her is that i so despise bill clinton.

I got fooled by this bullshit artist when he first ran for election, and he was certainly preferable to Bush 1.

After NAFTA I was no longer fooled, and voted for Nader when Lying Bill was up for re-election. I don’t know why his eyes are blue: he’s so full of shit, they should be brown by now.

a repost of my opinion on this from downstairs and I stand by it

I guess I am among the few that does not equate “the right to go attack” with attacking prematurely

both clintons gave bush the right to attack if the inspectors said there were wmd’s, bush attacked without those wmd’s

congress NEVER gave bush the right to attack pall mall without evidence and bush never got the evidence and never got the OK from EITHER Clinton

mui @ 72

And how will anti-war Democratic voters in Iowa, New Hampshire and elsewhere feel about Mrs. Clinton’s suggestion that she wants one of the architects of the Iraq war to serve as a goodwill ambassador?

I don’t care if Powell had a good reputation once. The UN presentation in my view was a major strike out. Goodwill embarrassment presents fake mobile nuke labs again? No!

truly, history will remember him as a bookend to adlai stevenson, when stevenson’s performance in the united nations swung the world to support the u.s. position concerning cuba, a moment illuminating the power and utility of the u.n. as a forum.

colin powell will be shown to have been the who, where and when behind the accelerating slide in world opinion of the U.S.
he showed that not only did we not believe in the things we claimed to, but that he and the u.s. were willing to be shameless in our fraud.

I’d rather chew my hand off first.
You made me laugh.
Holy Joe = Coyote Ugly.

egregious @ 69

Blue Texan @ 63

Shorter Bill Clinton and in much the same vein: I did not have war with that Iraq.

Damnit, that would’ve been a great headline.

Next time, Gadget, next time.

Awesome line. Maybe KO will pick it up. but would that make you a scab? ;)

It’s time to cleanse the Democratic Party of the Clintons…call Mrs. Clinton on her pro-war record and take the Big Dog down in Iowa by callin’ Al Gore in to campaign for John Edwards.

Yeah, that worked so well for Dean.

Look, again. And I really mean this. Honest hawkishness on Iraq, while I disagree with it, is much preferred to bullshitting after it’s gone to hell and claiming you never had war with that Iraq.

Re: mui at #38

- just had a flashback to a Seinfeld episode, heh.

“OMG! I’m so sorry! REALLY sorry!”

Hi. My name is Adie. Thanks for caring enough to make that admission. We’re all recovering in some fashion or other here, from this or that.

-um- but, please don’t ever do that again! ‘kay? ;->

[good golly molly! Dear Kind Mods, could you please erase my mess at #71? preview is my friend, rinse, repeat *blush*]

I am so weary of these two.Bill lost his luster for me when he became GeorgeHW’s best friend and to have Barbara call him another son? Gag me.Now he comes out and twists this around? Oh well she has gotten away with this and so will he.They are a major source of the problems in the country–and we will be well rid of them.Sorry am a progressive and see nothing at all from them but a lust for power.
And the policies they support ?Not to mention if in office she will NEVER do anything to hold W accountable for anything.

You know, all this said, I would rather have the Clintons shoot themselves in the foot than give the psycho-goobers the satisfaction of any victorious strategery move.

I really do want a better choice to emerge in the lead for Dems than HRC or BO. JMHO

Loo Hoo @ 73

Wow. Big arrest of terror suspects in Saudi Arabia.

“Over 200 al-Qaida linked suspects belonging to different cells and involved in different plots against the kingdom have been arrested in recent months [emphasis mine] in the kingdom’s largest anti-terror sweep to date, the Saudi Interior Ministry announced Wednesday…”

In “recent months” but it gets screaming headline play just today. “Big arrest”? Sounds like a lot of little ones.

Loo Hoo @ 73

Wow. Big arrest of terror suspects in Saudi Arabia.

Couple different points this brings to mind…

Funny there would be so many terrorists in Saudi Arabia, I thought they were all in Iraq (sent by Iran)?

Funny, I thought you had to go to war to fight terrorists… These Saudi people seem to be doing it with “police action”. Will someone tell them 9/11 changed all that, we use armies to hunt criminals now.

Since the Saudis are Bush allies, this is his win too! Congrats to Bush on his “big win” in the war on terror are in order, right? Right?

Bill sounds like a retired, pension-secure General trying to sweep his complicity under the rug.

Big fan of Clinton, voted for him twice, but file this under “why we were glad you left the first time.”

I remember hoping that both of the Clintons would say something — anything

I remember, vividly, having the same reaction.

Steve-AR @ 50

rwcole @ 39

Hillary got ratings on her voting record of “zero” from most gooper groups. She is a long ways from a gooper. She got very high ratings on her record from most liberal groups.

That is a rather awkward fact for the Hillary Gooper-lite meme.

Not really. Voter ratings notoriously don’t tell the whole story. Lieberman’s vote against Alito, for example, can be chosen as a good vote while his vote for cloture, the vote that really mattered, may not be counted at all.

With regard to Hillary, how many of her votes were similarly cosmetic? It can often be difficult to tease out. Where you can get a sense of this is on bills like the Kyl-Lieberman amendment on Iran which she voted for. Another way you can an idea of where she is coming from is on the bills and floor fights where she led the fight. I can’t think of any where this happened.

What I am left with is a candidate who backed the Iraq war initially and for years afterwards, who continues to refuse to apologize for that support, who goes along with the crowd on dimwitted warmongery like Kyl-Lieberman, who is tightly connected to corporations and the DLC, and who has in her first Senate term exercised leadership on nothing. So yes, I can say she is more DINO than Democrat.

Keith and David Shuster always pick up memes of the day from FDL…

Katie @ 91

I am so weary of these two.Bill lost his luster for me when he became GeorgeHW’s best friend and to have Barbara call him another son? Gag me.Now he comes out and twists this around? Oh well she has gotten away with this and so will he.They are a major source of the problems in the country–and we will be well rid of them.Sorry am a progressive and see nothing at all from them but a lust for power.
And the policies they support ?Not to mention if in office she will NEVER do anything to hold W accountable for anything.

I forget which interview on TDS it was but I remember Jon Stewart commenting:

“When I look at that photo (GHWB with Bill) it’s like they’re saying, you know when George is done, Hillary’d like a turn. Yeah, and I think Jeb would like it too.”

words to that nauseating effect.

Morning Blue Texan. Thanks for refreshing our memory on this one.

Loo Hoo @ 74

Wow. Big arrest of terror suspects in Saudi Arabia.

They are trying to cover up the fact that they released 1500 Terrorists from prison because “they had repented”.

Hillary may be a lot of things..but vacuous she isn’t. She didn’t get to Wellesley and Ya