Democratic Presidential candidates were supposed to debate each other last night, but for much of the evening, I thought the battle was between Hillary Clinton and the reporters CNN chose to help Wolf Blitzer read the indictments ask questions.
That contest wasn't even close: Hillary won, while CNN made itself look worse than Tim Russert, which I didn't think was possible.
In the headline event, Clinton proved once again why she's a formidable candidate. Her two closest challengers may have lost their edge, while three second tier candidates -- Biden (foreign policy expertise), Dodd (education and constitutional issues), and Kucinich (got it right the first time) -- did well. It proved once again this group of Democrats makes the party look good, and that what the Party needs is a composite of the knowledge, wisdom, and foresight their candidates have to offer.
From the opening question, it seemed CNN had planned the evening as an opportunity to take down Hillary Clinton, with anti-Clinton talking points assumed as proven facts and then embedded in questions. Campbell Brown opened by asking Clinton why she "stumbled" so badly in the last debate, and that was followed by a question to Obama that was premised on why Clinton is so triangulating. Then we had questions on the Bill's "boys" and the "gender card" and the obligatory Lou Dobbs demogoguery on drivers' licenses for immigrants. That was followed by John Roberts, whose questions -- "what about the awful teachers' unions?" and "Isn't Petraeus swell?" -- illustrated why he's known as a blatant Republican shill. Was that really "the best team on television?"
If CNN had a plan to discredit Clinton, it failed, instead allowing Clinton to prove again how well she can fend off the media assumptions while going toe-to-toe with opponents. I suspect Republicans, who might have had glimmers of hope watching the cable commentariat belittle Clinton "gaffes" for two weeks, are much more worried after last night.
It didn't take long for the audience to impose its own rules, booing any candidate who seemed to make gratuitous personal attacks on others. After that, Edward's continued efforts to imply Clinton is as personally corrupt as the system they all swim in probably didn't help him with those not already in his camp.
I'm not sure when Obama and Edwards realized that attacking Clinton might be a two-edged sword, but her first counter to them on health care should have signaled the risks. When she was done, Obama had left out universal health care for the first four primary states, and Edwards was reduced to a johnnie-come-lately to the cause of universal coverage. Surely they must have known they're facing one of the most disciplined, intelligent and prepared candidates they've ever seen. If they thought she would just stand there and take another beating, they were quickly proven wrong, and the fireworks ended early.
I was left wondering what happened to the much touted promise of Obama's Iowa speech. Pundits and supporters have been reading much into the symbolism of his campaign, even to the point of suggesting his election would send a powerful message of possible reconciliation with the Muslim world. Whatever the Obama promise means -- and I think its meaning is more in the hopes of his beholders than what he's actually saying -- I couldn't find it last night.
Clinton remains most vulnerable on her Iraq and Iran votes, and she was challenged several times. Biden made a strong case against Kyl-Lieberman, while Obama added the point of explaining how that amendment might even be used as a pretext for remaining longer in Iraq. She gave her standard response, and while it doesn't satisfy me, she's been careful in her Iran/Iraq responses to keep Bush and Cheney as the targets; her answer has picked up her opponents' points about using diplomatic leverage to prevent another war. It may be enough.
At the end of the debate, CNN's post-debate analysts (ignoring Carville, a supporter to begin with) concluded that Clinton had come out ahead: she not only out-debated Obama and Edwards, she kept the crowd [and did it while fending off CNN's worst]. Just as important, all the previous claims about "gaffes" and poor debate performance were squashed. Even for an uncommitted skeptic, it was impressive.
If anyone else gained, it was the Dodd, Biden and "always right" Kucinich, and to the audience' credit, their catcalls kept demanding these other candidates get speaking time. Dodd further helped his cause by answering an Hispanic audience member in Spanish [looking for a translation] on immigration, a sequence that probably has CNN's anti-immigrant bully Lou Dobbs fuming. Biden showcased his expertise and experience, particularly on Pakistan.
Some questions the media should be asking itself this morning:
-- Did the Beltway pundits just waste three weeks talking about inconsequential "gaffes" and "stumbles"? Because I don't think those topics survived last night.
-- How many opportunities do you want to give Hillary to speak to women about the meaning of her candidacy? Because I'll bet she's more than happy to do that. How's that anti-gender card talking point working?
-- How much did we learn about the candidates' positions on key issues? For example, how many questions did CNN ask about the candidates' plans for climate change? Oil dependence? Paying for Bush's wars? Reversing the trade deficit? Tax reform? Models for health care? Torture? Mukasey? Illegal spying? Immunity for telecoms who helped the government spy on their customers? I'll make it easy: zero, so the candidates had to sneak in answers anyway.
-- Did you notice that every time CNN asked about the Administration's failures, (1) the Dems had solutions and (2) their answers won huge applause and (3) impeachment is popular?
-- And other than John Roberts, who has no business moderating a debate, was there any other angry bitch on the stage? Because I didn't see one.
Update: The NYT has a helpful link to the videos and transcripts for each segment of the debate.
Photo at Nevada Democratic debate: AP/Jae C. Hong
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Good Morning Scarecrow!
Caw !
good morning to the Scarecrow - I think you’d find it difficult to fly here in Upstate NY this morning - 36 degrees and falling fast, windy and snowing hard.
morning all.
Sorry, Hillary just is not the one. Do not let your gender blind you to the fact that she voted for the Iraq funding meansure and has been too Slooooooow to come to even a moderate stance on our involvement in Iraq. Said she didn’t know. Bull, should have if she didn’t - but I knew, why didn’t she? Hell, even King George I tried to stop it.
Nope. Never will get my vote. Just Bush lite.
Good morning. Lurking here at work, enjoying the debate roundup.
media? ask itself? ha ha ha! did the cold front move through hell while i was sleeping?
Good morning.
Amy Goodman doing segment on FISA.
“It’s the media stupid”. When does a failed media become an issue in the campaign.
“… while CNN made itself look worse than Tim Russert, which I didn’t think was possible.”
Wrong.
Compared to Russert, CNN is bush league when it comes to biasing debates.
Roy E Pearson @ 5
Don’t ever assume here that gender is the reason for backing Hill. As much as I would like to see a woman in the Oval Office, she isn’t the one.
Good morning Scarecrow et al. A chill wind blowing through PA as well. Winter is coming but leaves are still on the trees. It’s been a slow fall.
Toby Wollin @ 3
It’s been raining here. But I’ve noticed the leaves are still on the trees, still turning; everything seems about 3 weeks later than usual.
Good morning everyone.
Alvord @ 10
Yes, but I’m not going to give that to CNN. They were terrible.
Craig Unger, Fall of House of Bush, next up on democracynow.
Still not a H. Clinton fan, although I’ll vote for her if she gets the nomination. I agree with the “Bush lite” statement upstairs.
My hope is that she’s tilting right for votes, but will move back left once in office.
One can hope, can’t one?
Scarecrow @ 13
They’ve both been pretty stupid. I’d love to see either of them treat the repigs the same way they treat the dems but I don’t see it happening. After all, they all go to the same party with the repigs afterwards and so they don’t want to hurt their feelings or make it an uncomfortable party scene.
John Roberts on CNN wondering why the mortgage crisis didn’t come up — then admits no one at CNN asked about it. Guess none of them has a sub-prime mortgage.
Craig Unger: Oedipus Tex. W put together cabinet of Poppy’s enemies.
STTP in Ohio @ 15
Hope all you want but remember she has Murdoch supporting her.
There used to be at least one televised debate presided over by the League of Women Voters (as I recall there are male members as well) and those debates were substantive. The questions were about the issues, candidates were given equal time, and there were rules to the debate which were applied across the board.
What we need is at least one televised LWV debate for each party before the primaries.
Thank you Scarecrow, I always enjoy your analyses. I missed a good bit of this debate getting the feed, will have to watch the replay.
You’re not fond of John Roberts, are you ;)
me either.
Good morning, Scarecrow;
The kids are happy; it’s snowing in Pittsburgh!
Kucinich deserves a least a mention - he was, and continues to be, the most authentic.
Clearly, the shift of opinion in HRC’s favor has begun. Is it warranted?
Seems like a dumbing-down of expectation. Or, mayhaps, resignation?
RevDeb @ 16
Funny clips on CNN this morning, showing John Roberts trying to get Clinton’s attention (while she’s greeting audience) and Obama’s — and he can’t figure out why both wanted to walk away from him.
Emma @ 20
a broadcast (non-cable) channel would be nice too
Scarecrow @ 23
can’t figure it out? How stupid is that, really?
Their lack of self-awareness is astounding.
STTP in Ohio @ 15
That would be pandering, yes?
BTW, I guess my Gore vs. Thompson 2008 race admittedly isn’t looking so good now; I never thought Fred the Actor wouldn’t bother to study his lines, and I didn’t think Gore could resist accepting a nomination that is his for taking.
Scarecrow,
If you ran the debate, who else would you invite to ask questions?
Did you notice that every time CNN asked about the Administration’s failures, (1) the Dems had solutions and (2) their answers won huge applause and (3) impeachment is popular?
and you know what? I think Kucinich is also popular not only for impeachment but for analysis of problems and solutions.
i didn’t see the debate but appreciate your thoughts.
john roberts? really. the guy should be offering insights on bay city roller videos.
well, I guess it’s pretty obvious why one of the most intelligent presidents in our history married Hillary
for the most part, intelligent men need a MATE, they do NOT need a MAID, intelligent men want to share their lives and be each others universe, they do not want a satalite hovering under them, they want to share life’s experience and therefore double the experience in their lives
Hillary MIGHT BE Clinton’s intellectual superior and if that’s true, that would make her the most intelligent president ever elected to
our government.
I wish she would begin to denounce corporate sponsorship and make it clear that AFTER the election she is going to take corporate donations OUT of public electoral process
IF she does THAT she will gain even republican voters because THAT issue is the elephant in the room
by the way, I think I have just by accident written a progressives marriage credo;
“progressives want mates not maids”
that will play EVERYWHERE
[Mod note: edited at commenter’s request]
Lodger @ 26
back left?
nice perris
for the most part, intelligent men need a MATE, they do NOT need a MAID.
wait. i have it on pretty good authority that ‘a man needs a maid’……
well, truth be said, neil was young when he recorded that….
Elliott @ 28
Haven’t thought about that one, but I find it interesting that the audience/voters, when asked to participate, take the job very seriously and tend to come up with pretty good questions — although the one about pearls or diamonds may be an exception. :)
Scarecrow @ 23
I remember John Roberts from my days living & teaching in Toronto. Roberts is Canadian, born in Toronto, went to U of T.
And he was one of the first veejays on the Canadian equivalent of MTV, MuchMusic. Then he went by the name J.D. Roberts.
I know it’s hard to believe he was ever that hip. Actually, if memory serves, he wasn’t…
garbage truck filled with diamonds and pearls now pursued by numerous police cars on the freeway our choppers are on the scene
Lodger @ 26
Yes, it certainly would be.
Again, I am no H. Clinton fan. Among other things, her Iran vote disturbs me greatly. She’s also way to cozy with big money to bring any real change re: election reform or single payer universal health care.
Since it looks like Gore’s really not gonna run, Edwards would be my next choice.
It’s Treason: Dems Stay Silent on Bush White House Crimes
from AfterDowningStreet.org - Impeach Bush and Cheney Now!
By Richard W. Behan, AlterNet
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort.
–Article III, Section 3, United States Constitution (emphasis added)
The mainstream Democrats — represented, say, by Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, John Edwards, Joe Biden, and Christopher Dodd — have not levied war against the United States. Their treason lies instead in committing the second offense: They adhere to enemies of the country, giving them aid and comfort.
TexBetsy @ 32
thanx, I hope a moderater can fix an error I made
I wrote hillary might be clinton’s equal and I meant to write “hillary MIGHT BE clinton’s intelectual superior”
could lurking mod fix please?
Politicians in the worst sense try to please all the people (and in Hill’s case, corporations) all the time. It’s about being well liked.
Hill’s no dumbie, but will she govern as a progressive? Not likely. She’s slightly left of center and that is way too far to the right for my taste.
I wonder where on that continuum the people really are. We hear a lot about the huge center. Is it true or have the people not been informed well about progressive solutions?
Unfortunately, as weak as Hill is, I’d prefer her to any repuke they have there. Imagine Rudi? Another lying fascists who makes no apologies about it either.
the phrase, “she did it backwards and in high heels” springs to mind…
‘morning all - coffee is ready and it is strong.
If CNN had a plan to discredit Clinton the post debate discussion would not have included two Clintonites and a repugnicon.
When are we going to wake up?
OldCoastie @ 41
I LOVE women who do it backwards, I must say
must earn and am off to do same, see all in a little bit
It’s hard to even watch the MSM bobbleheads. They’re so shallow and stupid… and did I say uninformed? We really live in a dumbed down world of image without substance.
Just finished morning news & blog tidbets. Have another hour of sleep ahead before I REALLY need to be up. See y’all later!
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 31
Good point! I stand corrected.
trying to get my courage up to call the Sec. of State on the petitioners’ little fraudulent exercise on the electoral college vote thingie…
perris @ 39
I have always half suspected that Bill’s attraction to Hillary, to be quite blunt, was and still is her mesmerizing intellect and organizing ability. Some men are attracted to women who are totally different from themselves and totally different from other women they know (the “exotic creatures” theory - my father was one of those sorts of guys)and I think Bill Clinton was attracted to Hillary for those two reasons. For all of his sexual “issues”, I think those two have a very strong partnership marriage filled with tremendously strong intellectual respect and ambition for one another.
That said, I think Sen. Clinton is stronger strategically than any other candidate out there - she may not be the favorite, but I do think from a strategic perspective, she is the strongest. I also think Edwards is frankly running out of emotional gas for the process.
Scarecrow @ 34
amy goodman, without a doubt.
I respectfully disagree with your assessment. I think the CNN debate was rigged for HRC. I believe those questions that were lobbed her way about all of the “gaffes” she made over the past two weeks were softballs. You don’t think they have been working on responses to those missteps for the past weeks? Come On. It also helped that she had plants in the audience heckling anyone that took her on. Even legitimately taking her on. And the follow up analysis by CNN’s political team? Carville and Gergen? Two former Clintonites? Please this was a gift to the HRC campaign. I think that will be the ultimate negative message coming out of this debate. Hillary can only win if the fix is in.
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 36
Who is driving? OJ, Paris, Britney, or Lindsay?
OldCoastie @ 48
go for it!
Thanks for the extensive summary.
I couldn’t BEAR to watch the debate last night — precisely because of the MSM posturing, and their greater concern for “gotcha” that facilitating a real chance for voters to get to know candidates. Figured I could catch the “good stuff” [i.e., the candidates’ responses on The Tubes] and not have to suffer through Wolf et al.
Besides, I’ve greatly enjoyed going to the sites of local media — e.g., the Iowa Independent — and watching clips of individual candidates responding to real questions from real people. Better than the phonied up horserace/bar fight CNN tries to create.
Also, Sundance was showing the wonderful Iconoclasts series. Last night @ 9 was last week’s feature, Mike Myers & Depak Chopra. At 10, the founder of Starbucks & Norman Lear. Both were phenomenal, and I recommend them highly. (The Norman Lear episode re-runs at 6 pm ET tonight.)
Each of these was deeply moving and made me feel a lot more hopeful for humanity than preening reporters would have.
And then I watched the TiVo’d episode of The Office & laughed my ass off. [So much thinner now without that ass.]
OldCoastie @ 48
You can do it. You are woman. Roar.
In a nice way of course.
(They’re just people and you’re just calling them with a question.)
Sorry, Scarecrow, my take on the debate could not differ more as far as Senator Clinton is concerned, my senator by the way, for whom I voted twice and will not vote for again. Parenthetically, let me say I have contacted her office innumerable times during the past years. They take the prize for arrogance. Clinton cast two votes, re, Iraq and Iran which are unforgivable and which do not reflect the sentiments of her constituency.
But, back to the debate.
A chaotic debate poorly moderated which, like previous debates, left me wanting to hear more from the so called lower tier candidates, Kucinich and Biden in particular. Sen. Clinton grates on my nerves because of content,style, delivery. She is rhetorical,rehearsed, formulaic. Always trying to slalom her way out. Unlike the shamefully biased post debate analysis on CNN by Clinton acolytes and the overall MSM inclination to crown Hillary, the blogosphere provided a much more accurate analysis of what transpired during the debate and how each candidate fared. In my book Obama is the man. I agree with Sy Hersch, he is the candidate who can best help repair the image of the United States in the world in general and in the Muslim world in particular. I believe Obama’s victory would help to galvanize and unite this country and restore pride in being an American.
TexBetsy @ 46
Noticed the article re: going after Ken Lay’s assets on your blog.
I’ll bet Ken (and his new face & fingerprints)
are really mad about this development.
John Roberts is an angry bitch.
Hah!
Toby Wollin @ 49
Interesting analysis, thanks
On Edwards, do you think it could be because of his wife’s health?
IrishJim @ 51
i wouldn’t go so far as rigged… but i do agree about the softballs.
Alter on msnbc saying Clinton won because it was a “Hillary crowd”.
Elliott @ 21
Funny, I used to really like John Roberts when he was with CBS. I hoped fervently that he’d be pick for Dan Rather’s spot.
Don’t know if I was wrong all that time, or if he’s turned bitter after that episode.
Bernard Goldberg certainly has gone over to the Dark Side!!!
There is a part of me that feels so torn. “not this woman”. But the other part of me, so clearly appreciates what “this woman” has accomplished. Regardless of her husband and in some ways “despite” and the very best kind of “to spite” her husband. She did it by suceeding. She did it by working hard. I also suspect that she knows that campaign promises are easily made and very hard to keep. She understands how difficult it is to get things done in washington.
I also believe that she was spot on when she said that all this contention will not go away just because she or any other democratic won or wins the election. This, in my opinion is one of her strongest advantages. She understands and does not underestimate the power of the republican neo con machine. She understands that no matter how much we “hate” them or “disagree” with them, we as a nation will have to “work with them” and “deal with them” in the following administration. Their power will not be muted because of any democrat getting into office because their power is based on money, influence and criminal actions.
I fear that Obama and Ewards are a bit naive in this regard. I think sometimes I dislike her discourse because it is what is “effective” given the power of the neo con gov’t instead of what I want to hear.
I have to admit I shivered when she talked about the 90 year old woman wanting to live long enough to see a woman president. I didn’t want it to be so powerful, but as a woman, who has come across that glass ceiling and stumbled on “those obstacles”, it was really powerful. I felt a tear in my eye, and my heart skipped a beat.
My impressions were pretty much the same as Scarecrow’s. I like all of the Democratic candidates and always hate the going negative part of primary campaigns because they can lead to irrepairable fractures and presidents like Nixon. Still, I athought both Obama and Edwards looked irritated and deflated last night. They were having to proceed with game plans that were obviously going sour.
IrishJim @ 51
Well, it’s an interesting theory, that the MSM who was so complicit in trying to destroy Bill Clinton, is now actively promoting Hillary’s candidacy and had to fix the debate because she’s incompetent and helpless without their help. It’s a wonder she can speak a complete sentence. And I suppose the questions to Obama and Edwards that were invitations for them to repeat their criticisms of her were calculated to show them in a negative light?
As for the “plants” in the audience, there was very strong applause for each of the major candidates when they came on the stage — that is, there were large groups supporting each candidate in the audience, and each got a chance to cheer their candidate’s answers.
perris @ 30:
Now if you could just sneak in a reference to Trophy Wives . . .
I respect Clinton in many ways, but she is not a reformer. And neither is Obama. Visions of HoJoe-lite making “bi-partisan strides” in the WH makes me swallow hard. We have the complicated situation of defending the party and fending off Repuke talking points and misogynistic comments that get thrown at Hillary, and not liking her hawkish stance and triangulating one bit. I wish, I wish Edwards or some other would break through so Tweetie chirps like he’s got a fire under his ass.
Who was in the audience?
Please forgive this totally unrelated OT but for baseball fans of a certain age who might remember the youngest player in MLB history, the “Ol’ Lefty” has died.
Joe Nuxhall, RIP
Toby Wollin @ 49
Perhaps ’stronger’ strategically, in the self-serving ‘political’ sense, but is she ’strategically’ wiser than say, Kucinich, on the larger, more deadly issues?
Her ’strategy’ may be more like the strategy of self-serving, selfish folks like Rupert, perhaps.
Is HRC best for our nation? Best for the deeper needs of the time? I remain VERY skeptical.
Is HRC the ‘right’ person?
That’s too bad that the other candidates are stumbling so hard. I found out last week that all the prominent party “leaders” in my state are officially endorsing Hillary. It doesn’t really matter since the primary here is AFTER everything’s already been decided, but it bothers me that she’s the apparent “favorite” of so many people.
I honestly can’t believe they can all support her based on the issues, so that leaves the alarming conclusion that it’s some sort of political calculus. We need to get these people a math tutor.
Republicans have a pretty crappy slate of candidates, not just from my liberal point of view, but from the point of view of much of their base. The Republican base will only reluctantly show up to the polls next November — unless something really gets them stirred up.
I don’t see any of the Republican candidates invigorating their base, but there’s one Democratic candidate who can motivate the Republican base like no other.
And it looks like Democrats are going to give them that candidate.
When there are already so many obstacles, from biased media to rigged voting machines, we can’t afford to do Republicans any favors — and nominating Hillary is the biggest favor we can do for the Republicans.
Kate Jensen @ 63:
Some time ago I might have agreed with you on this, but this past week I found Paul Krugman’s presentation at a book fair in FL. [go to BookTV for the link]
He pointed out the myth and futility of “bi-partisanship,” at least with the current crop on the Republican side. He references FDR and the years’-long attempts to undo the New Deal. [Attempts that have come back via the Bush Administration.]
I’d be interested in your thoughts if you have a chance to listen to this.
Was Clinton triangulating when she said she liked both diamonds and pearls? Or would she have had to include rubies for that?
Good morning Loo Hoo.
I thought you did a marvelous job live blogging the debate last night.
president hillary will straighten out that yap hugo chavez for irritating our corporations.
WASHINGTON, DC - Nov. 15, 2007 - Five candidates for the Democratic nomination for President of the United States have issued a joint statement declaring they will cease participating in televised debates.
“We are finished with being stooges for broadcast journalism,” said Sen. Hillary Clinton, “and my fellow Democratic candidates join me in this decision to stop debating.”
“Let them find another way to sell Preparation H,” said former Senator John Edwards, “we’re done.”
All further press inquiries should be directed to campaign offices in Iowa.
Elliott @ 59
Yes, I do. I think John Edwards’ wife is his partner also. I think they have been “holding one another up” for years. This is another “partnership of equals”. I also know because I saw what my parents(who also had the same sort of partnership marriage)went through with my father’s last illness and death and what it did to my mother - her health was never the same after that. The process of it sucked the life right out of her; I can’t imagine that John Edwards, who obviously adores his wife and kids, can go through this process and remain untouched by it. The stress alone is huge. The knowledge of how much time he still has (or does not have) with her weighs on him, I’m sure. Trying to rouse courage and energy every single day is a herculean effort that would bring the strongest person down.
For any who’d like to see John Roberts as JD Roberts, long-haired veejay, on MuchMusic in 1986, here’s what my family would call the “blackmail clip”:
JD Roberts interviews Yngwie Malmsteen
Sufilizard @ 71
I found out the same thing [party “leaders” all sewed up for Hillary] here in my state [Maryland].
Very smart and strategic on her part, but not designed to win hearts and minds of voters.
But again, that’s my take on Hillary: object is for her to win; voters’ needs — not so much.
David W. Bartoo @ 70
Ugh you bring up Rupert Murdoch and remind me why I see red sometimes when I think of Hilary.
dakine01 @ 52
:-) All 4!!!
it’s a special truck!!!
Loo Hoo. @ 73
Wouldn’t triangulation result in an “oops, mistake in voting on Iraq invasion?” It just seems strange to me that someone is criticized for pandering to what every crowd wants to hear on the one hand, and bull headedly sticking to the most unpopular position on the most critical issue.
Scarecrow @ 65
I was hoping I had heard the last of plants in the audience with the W.’s Rovian machine… only to find out the Clinton campaign practices the same shenanigans as reported this week. A college student was fed a question about energy. Apparently it was not the first time.
Does anyone know what the abortion question that Biden was in the middle of answering when they came back from the commercial was?
OldCoastie @ 48
Do it, old coastie. Cinnamonape showed me what happened. They need to be TAKEN DOWN for that, and Debra Bowen will be on it. We need to take cameras where ever we go I guess, huh? Did you tell the morning crowd what happened?
Marie Roget @ 78
You take mercy on us and give us Louis Armstrong instead.
and president hillary will continue to do a good job of smacking down those middle eastern nations who think they can actually have people in universities and have doctors and hospitals and not like Isr*el.
death is so beautiful.
the statue of liberty is brandishing a taser.
ceci –
In my book Obama is the man. I agree with Sy Hersch, he is the candidate who can best help repair the image of the United States in the world in general and in the Muslim world in particular. I believe Obama’s victory would help to galvanize and unite this country and restore pride in being an American.
I also saw Sy Hersh’ comment, and there was a NYT op ed making a similar point about the promise/vision of Obama’s Presidency. So I was looking for it last night. I’m not sure whether he hasn’t found a way to articulate that clearly, or has decided that suggesting he can reach out to Muslims would just encourage the Republicans to take off on the Obama/Osama nonsense. We know they will if needed.
I share the desire for an alternative vision of the US role in the world, and the concern that Clinton represents the old view that needs to be replaced, but I frankly have not heard any candidate articulate that alternative vision, beyond saying we shouldn’t have invaded Iraq. After that, it just sounds like a less belligerent version of American hegemony. And despite the criticisms of Hillary’s Iran/Iraq votes, I didn’t hear any of the candidates really nail this.
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 75
Let’s hope not.
mui @ 86
Yeah, I screwed that up, but managed to fix it in the edit mode, I think. If not, here’s the MuchMusic Roberts clip:
JD Roberts interviews Yngwie Malmsteen
Only one worse than hillary last night was wolf. CNN was a joke from the beginning hell the debate was brought to us by CLEAN COAL. Hillary looked shrill and angry. AND now we know what the middle class is to hillary …the top 6%.
PBS did an amazing job a couple of days ago discussing the major issues for nevada…water and power. But being that the debate was brought to us by clean coal,energy seemed to be severely lacking in the debate.
Loo Hoo. @ 73
Your comment is a jewel, with many facets, some hidden . . . the luster of FDL is growing ever brighter; the dialog shimmers with perception, insight and humor as well genuine gravitas.
Marie Roget @ 90
The armchair psychologist suggests that you like Louis Armstrong better.
Marie Roget @ 78
That’s a bad link? It went to a Louis Armstrong video?