Login Here
Phil Robinson (Sneakers, Field of Dreams) on the history of the WGA and the writer's strike.
Battlestar Gallactica showrunner Ron Moore:
"I had a situation last year on Battlestar Galactica where we were asked by Universal to do webisodes [Note: Moore is referring to The Resistance webisodes which ran before Season 3 premiered], which at that point were very new and 'Oooh, webisodes! What does that mean?' It was all very new stuff. And it was very eye opening, because the studio's position was 'Oh, we're not going to pay anybody to do this. You have to do this, because you work on the show. And we're not going to pay you to write it. We're not going to pay the director, and we're not going to pay the actors.' At which point we said 'No thanks, we won't do it.'"
"We got in this long, protracted thing and eventually they agreed to pay everybody involved. But then, as we got deeper into it, they said 'But we're not going to put any credits on it. You're not going to be credited for this work. And we can use it later, in any fashion that we want.' At which point I said 'Well, then we're done and I'm not going to deliver the webisodes to you.' And they came and they took them out of the editing room anyway -- which they have every right to do. They own the material -- But it was that experience that really showed me that that's what this is all about. If there's not an agreement with the studios about the internet, that specifically says 'This is covered material, you have to pay us a formula - whatever that formula turns out to be - for use of the material and how it's all done,' the studios will simply rape and pillage."
The WGA really needs to take a stand on new technologies now, and this is a very specific example of what will keep happening if they don't.
(h/t Julie)
Update: John Edwards will join striking WGA members on the picket line at 1:45 pm on Friday, Nov 16 in front of NBC Universal Studios
NBC Universal Studios, 3000 W. Alameda Avenue, Burbank, CA.
If you're in the area, come on down!
Share This 
Spotlight
We’re got a new DIGG feature at the top. Try it and let me know what you think.
did I get the zed?
Hi, Jane
Jane Hamsher @ 1
mmm, I must be dense or something. I clicked on it and…nothing happens.
good question, Toby.
I know we let TRex “zed” his own thread once, but it was his birthday…
FunnyDiva
Hi Jane!
Funnydiva2002 @ 5
And for the therapod, nothing is too much…
Good afternoon to you, Jane!
Toby Wollin @ 2
In a word, no. Make room for the proprietress…*g*
Biodun @ 9
Ker-ack!! Take that!!
Oh, no, Biodun..I didn’t mean it..I’ll put the zed back….
No wire hangers!!!
Jane Hamsher @ 1
How does ths work? I tried to register and it says someone already is using my handle.
Biodun @ 9
Every once in a while I get lucky.
I try not to take undue advantage of the fact that I know in advance when posts are going up, though.
The web is the future of media, entertainment, the arts, education, business, sports, politics - you name it.
I’ve been teaching a course in Music Appreciation in college now for seven years. When I started, wikipedia was in its infancy, and very unreliable. Now it is a useful tool for students and educators alike (and kids need to know the rules on attibution more than ever!!!). Seven years ago YouTube didn’t exist. Now I could teach my course from it. Things are changing so fast.
For Jane to use the BG writer’s problem as an example shows how fully employers realize the vast potential out there for profits on the web. They and their stockholders are being greedy - it’s as simple as that…
Toby Wollin @ 4
You have to create an account, they don’t ask for a lot of info. Click on the yellow digg and then, I think,look at the top blue navigation bar to sign up. maybe “my account” just can’t remember exactly.
Jane Hamsher @ 1
Before I join - what is it?
the theme MUST be that intelectual property needs to be rewarded with portions of the profit that the suppliers created for the investors
without the suppliers of this property there is NO profit, these people need to be compensated for their talent and their work
that’s the way this needs to be framed, we need to take “ownership” away from the investors, the monetary investors are merely one facet in those that need a return on what they’ve invested
very simple stuff here, you buy this kind of property is is multi faceted ownership
“The WGA really needs to take a stand on new technologies now, and this is a very specific example of what will keep happening if they don’t.”
The problem as I see it is that no one out there knows what technologies are going to be developed. No one. When I was at Newhouse (Syracuse Univ) in 1974, the hottest thing was 1″ wide videotape. We were editing film with razor blades. There was no such thing as personal computers. There were tape casettes. Look what has happened to people who were making recorded music in the 70s - their music is now being sold as cds, individual tracks, downloaded..sliced, diced, etc.
And the artists are still being screwed, except for the ones who are selling their own.
As long as the writers do not build a sufficiently broad net for their work, they will continue to get screwed every time the production houses figure out a new way to slice,dice and sell their stuff. They will continue to make money off the writers’ work…ad infinitum.
Personally, if I were a writer, I’d want these sorts of payment rights to be a family asset that could be passed down to my kids.
…ah, Hollywood, my Hollywood…
(I work as an editor in the animation industry, and can verify that the requests for freebies have gotten way worse over the years. and, shamefully, I have to admit that we’ve given far more than we should have.)
Jane:
Yes indeed: I notice that your zed comment is at 11:56, while your post itself is time-stamped at 11:57. Time travel perhaps? The future happens before the past. That sorta thing. *G*
annagranfors @ 18
As we say here at home: Why buy the cow when you can milk it through the fence?
Great exposition on the merits of WGA position.
(for what it’s worth, I hope my defense of Freston on last WGA thread, wasn’t taken as rejection of WGA position that they should be paid for the material they create).
Ed*ard Teller @ 15
Take a digg tour
or
How digg works
Question- I know that for SAG you have to make a certain amount per year to be eligible for certain union benefits like health insurance (which is not free).
Is this the case also for WGA? If so, then that’s an extra dimension re: payment to writers.
I heard the series “24″ has already been affected by the strike, but that management had solved the problem by changing its name to “12 1/2″. *g*
Off topic, sorry
Wanna know why DiFi is squishy on telecom immunity?
It has absolutely nothing to do with quid pro quo does it?
No! Of course not (wink, wink, nudge, nudge)
That guy wrote Field of Dreams?
I bow in his general direction.
digga digga bopp
john in sacramento @ 25
OK I surrender..there vote is so much bigger than mine.
Some people seems to be more clueless than others. Comment currently on the front page at LATimes.com:
The writers for the Simpsons get it: they don’t think the stuff online (’webisodes’?) is ‘promotional material’.
Off topic but received from the AFL-CIO family activist alert:
Chimpy only believes in Head Start for Billionaires.
mui @ 30
it’s not easy to be born on third base.
Video of studio execs bragging about the money to be made from the internet. Scumbags.
U R a funny guy, Hugh.
I’m on a plane back to DC in a few but want to put your scroll.
Corrected first draft found of Field of Dreams:
Somehow, that didn’t play well for the focus groups.
puppethead @ 32
But remember - they see it as their RIGHT to do this…and anything or anyone who infringes on that right …ticks them off.
Webisodes, webisodes. Why doesn’t surprise me the writers are being ripped off, dishonourably treated, because it is in a way a matter of honor. Fair treatment.
selise @ 30
that silver spoon in the mouth can be really dangerous when sliding back into third base on a pick-off attempt.
selise @ 31
Selise, did you get my e-mail?
puppethead @ 32
That actually reminds me somehow of the recent post here on Alaskan politicians bragging about being corrupt. Kinda psycho.
What Digby Said:
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com.....se-by.html
re: fisa and lobbying: ann in az inspired me this morning with her talk of group faxes… so i went and a group vCard that includes all the senators - if it works like i think it should, you can import it into your email program and have phone #, fax #, email, and dc snail mail addresses.
if it works, and is useful - i’ll do the house of representatives too (that will take me longer!).
but first i need a beta tester i can send the file to and who will test it. if it works, i’ll post it somewhere for downloading.
any volunteers?
Ann in AZ @ 38
yes! it worked brilliantly - and you inspired me to go a bit crazy… (see my note above).
ygm. i sent you the file, in the hopes that you would give it a test drive.
selise @ 41
n e w t o n u s r
at
aol dot com
:)
Its amazing how so many artists and writers are actually givers, but studios, the music industry and publishing companies seem to want to hold the work hostage. It’s ok to want to make a profit. But to be absolutely draconian about it . . . Disney?!?
OT, via bmaz at emptywheel’s site:
The University of Florida is paying Alberto Gonzalez $40,000 for a speech — i.e., they’re paying him hush money. Can you imagine how fucking angry you’d be if you were a UF faculty member or student?
http://thenexthurrah.typepad.c.....l#comments
SEE ALSO Joss Whedon’s gratifyingly frequent posts on this at whedonesque.com.
(why I love Joss, number 987 in a series: so obviously “on our side”)
charlie don’t surf @ 40
Important stuff there:
“The propensity to exploit in competitive “glamour” fields is very, very strong and it was always about making sure that those who weren’t on the A-list could make a decent living and build normal middle class lives. (And from the beginning many of the A-list marched in solidarity with their less rich and famous brethren. It may even have been partially in self-interest. Show business may be one of the most insecure professions on earth.)”
Ding, ding, ding!!!
This is the point — the successful ones march with those who struggle to help the less fortunate ones. Today’s “high flyer” is tomorrow’s “cancelled show” - so it always helps to support one another.
That is why it is important. And that is why we need to care.
My wife’s been watching “Ugly Betty” on ABC.com. I noticed last night the video is shown in a screen with a Kleenex logo prominently displayed at top throughout and Kleenex commercials in the spot where ads would be shown on broadcast TV.
So Kleenex isn’t paying anything to ABC for that, right? They’re not being charged by ABC based on any sort of cumulative audience, correct?
When I watched those webisodes for the first time I remember thinking “man, that is some good writing.” I can’t believe they didn’t get paid for them.
newtonusr @ 43 -
thanks! ygm.
the idea was that the contacts could be used for sending faxes to a group of phone numbers. but i haven’t gotten that far yet - ann in az did it this morning, though… so i hope it is doable.
brendan @ 45
Any students there who want to ask Gonzo about his third torture memo?
mui @ 44
Musicians have long known all this. Didja know whan when you sign a recording contract, they own the copyrights in perpetuity? If they take your stuff off the market, they still own the rights.
Sign a book deal, on the other hand, and you typically get your copyright back if the publisher takes it out of print.
But, say, your label deal expires and your album is no longer available. You would owe the original record company royalities were you to re-release your own stuff years later.
Q: How do you become a millionaire in music?
A: Start out with at least two million dollars.
annagranfors @ 46
Buffy the Vampire slayer rocked.
Aren’t the days of people getting paid for their writing and intellectual property coming to an end? I mean no one is going to pay for TV anymore now that you can just download it from the net for free and there must be 2000 blogs on every topic under the sun so paying for news is over, and now there are people giving away books and video podcasts and movies.
Old media is dead. Content and information is free.
Selise,
does this mass fax work only with OUTLOOK?
selise @ 50
I can’t do it on this computer. I remember once group faxing something and getting a snippy reply from Arlen Spectors staff.
Jane, thaks for keeping this on the front burner, and cudos to Edwards for making an appearance. Maybe that will be enough to get more coverage.
LA Times is revealed and shamed. Dead tree media, soon to be completely dead, I hope. The small tabloids produced for/by local communities are really good here.
Writers are just now riding point for a large number of other workers and future workers.
Huge Buffy fan here.
Season Six rocked.
Folk singer John McCutcheon is a great fan of labor, and uses many old labor songs in his recordings and concerts. I’ve heard him tell the story of one of his Australian tours, where an older, tattooed guy kept showing up at show after show. Finally, out of sheer curiousity, he went out during the intermission and found the guy, who requested a specific song. “I know the song,” says John to the fan, “but I’ve never performed it. How about something else.” The answer was blunt: “No.” The reason is that the fan had been a union electrician who helped to build the Syndey Opera House, and during the construction Paul Robeson pulled up in his limo, sang a full concert for the construction crew on the site of the Opera House, and concluded it with that specific song. “It was like we were in church,” said the electrician, “all singing with tears running down our faces.”
The song?
Joe Hill
(words by Alfred Hayes, music by Earl Robinson)
I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night
Alive as you and me
Says I, “But Joe, you’re ten years dead”
“I never died,” says he (2x)
“The copper bosses killed you, Joe
“They shot you, Joe,” says I
“Takes more than guns to kill a man”
Says Joe, “I didn’t die”
Standing there as big as life
And smiling with his eyes
Joe says, “What they could never kill
“Went on to organize!”
“From San Diego, up to Maine
“In every mine and mill
“When workers fight and organize
“It’s there you’ll find Joe Hill”
I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night
Alive as you and me
Says I, “But Joe, you’re ten years dead”
“I never died,” says he. (2x)
Joe Hill is obviously still walking . . .
BobbyG @ 52
There are issues in publishing as well. Scholarly publishers particularly STM, take researchers work, publish it and sell it back to the libraries (when often their instiutions supported the research to begin with). So end up paying for the work thrice fold. Things like that. They make a stink on Document Delivery, and have on Xerox and ILL. Fair Use to them is a bane, when the whole idea should be exchange of scholarly ideas.
If you don’t live in the So-cal area, there is a way that you can help all on your lonesome. If you have the fortitude for it, cancel your Cable subscription and tell the cable company that you are canceling it because of the writers strike, and won’t be back untill the strike is resolved. It works on three levels
1) if enough people do this, you start getting the cable companies screaming at the TV/movie executives about losing customers, opening another flank against them basically.
2) You probably watch too much TV anyway, plus we seem to be getting more and more of our information and entertainment online, so it’s not that bad (though try to stay away from downloading your shows through the networks’ sites, after all this is the main beef that the writers are having).
3) When the strike ends, and you sign up, you get 2-3 months of teaser rates which are like half of a regular bill.
Turned in my cable box today, and I feel great.
jane hamsher @ 58
I loved the Glory season. Don’t remember which one that was.
selise @ 50
Most excellent!
Populated Address Book, Palm Desktop and Entourage like a charm.
Thanks loads!
BobbyG @ 52
The f*ckers. That is the industry.
Dave@48
That’s called “product placement” and yes, it’s all for MONEY. Or did you imagine that they were doing it out of kindness?
I suggest that if you don’t like it, write the show. The writers and actors have been fighting this product placement for a long time. Think about it: Tom Cruse uses a Kleenex from a labled box. How much money does he get? Probably none. He refuses to use Kleenex. But not many actors have that clout. You will be seeing more of this crap if you let it go on.
It started, it is rumored, when Steven Speilberg wanted to use M&Ms to attract ET, but they turned him down. He went to Reeses and they had no such qualms. Reeses made a mint on this free plug. Thereafter, companies beseiged the studios with product. Free stuff! The worst possible offender, to my mind, is that overrated hack, Steven Kind, who actually uses specific product names in his so-called “novels.” I can imagine he has a warehouse full of free stuff.
DGAS
Thanks for the hot tip, Jane. As a Local 399 member in the industry I’ll be proud to represent the Teamsters and share my views and encouragement with Edwards…. to basically reinforce his emerging stance of openly accusing big business of being anti-American and anti-worker.
annagranfors @ 45
anna- maybe you can answer my question above as you’ve said you have family in the bidness:
Question- I know that for SAG you have to make a certain amount per year to be eligible for certain union benefits like health insurance (which is not free).
Is this the case also for WGA? If so, then that’s an extra dimension re: payment to writers.
mui @ 64
Yep. And, y’know this little dustup with Regnery? Shunting off their wingnut books to their subsidiary “book clubs” to avoid nearly all royalties? That’s been common practice in recording for decades. Artists get nothing for the “record club” sales, or for those cheesy cable TV advertised compilations.
PLUS, your recording contract gets billed for all of your production costs — including your music video. Lots of “successful” musical artists come out of their deals owing the company money (not even addressing here the felonious bookkeeping tricks they employ as well to siphon off monies owed. Kenny Rogers once said “I never had an audit done that didn’t at least pay for itself.”).
mui @ 44
Yes, Disney. Their attitude is “hey, there are ten more like you in line for your job so sign the contract as we wrote it…” A friend of a friend had the smarts to retain the rights to work he had already created before working for Disney. Many are so intimidated they wouldn’t have challenged that.
do-si-do @ 70
They’re the only company I have ever heard of that gave the yea old Library of Congress Program for the Blind and Handicapped sh*t.
itwasntme @ 65
IIRC, another truly awful example of this is Tom Clancy being paid by armaments manufacturers to put their weapons in his books and play up their effectiveness, to promote actual hardware sales to the Pentagon and elsewhere.
BobbyG @ 69
I think I heard Patsy Cline died broke.
do-si-do @ 70
Back when I was in music, I came within a baby hair of landing one of my tunes with the Oak Ridge Boys. Had an inside track ‘cuz one of my best friends, Jellyroll Johnson, is a long-time well-known Nashville studio harp player (Judds, Randy Travis, Kim Carnes, etc).
They told me I’d have to give up my publishing.
Nope. Sorry.
Elliott @ 55
i hope not! but, i have no idea how to do the mass fax - haven’t gotten that far yet (although i vaguely remember having some thought about this back during the protest of alito nomination)…. maybe ann in az or newtonurs or someone else can give you more info - i’m going to take a look at that tonight to see if i can figure it out for my macs.
mui @ 71
That’s pretty good…they’ve also gone after a daycare here in the Bay Area for playing their videos for a “commercial audience”. ROFL.
RonD @ 72
Clancy is on my banned list. I think he is a big Repuke. EDIT: My *personal* banned list.
mui @ 56
bummer. well, would having all the contacts make sending out the single faxes easier?
selise @ 75
thanks!
selise @ 78
Wait do you need my email?
mui @ 77
He is. During the 2004 campign, I heard him say to an interviewer who had asked about tax cuts for the rich,” Well, if they can’t figure out how to make 100 grand a year, why should anyone listen to them?” Or something to that effect. I was sick.
Valley Girl @ 68
Valley Girl, do you comment at TPM as VG? Greg Sargent has an update on the brouhaha that occurred yesterday…
Speaking of Battlestar, I’m assuming Season 4 will be delayed. Does anyone know?
mui @ 80
Let me know.
sorry for all the OT, jane. hope it’s ok with you…
p.s. i watched buffy and after that bsg - last two shows i watched and liked… and this from someone who goes weeks without turning my tv on (had to even get bsg from itunes since i don’t have cable). how cool is it that starbucks is a woman?
annagranfors @ 18
A man named David Hilberman passed away a few months ago. He was the art director on Bambi and Sleeping Beauty. He staked his entire career on forming the Animator’s Union. It got him blackballed (thanks to Disney), and while he certainly did work again, my feeling is that management probably tried to get in the way every time. David used to say “just because you’re creative doesn’t mean you don’t have a family to feed, rent to pay, and kids to put through school.” Why should the owners get it all. If you’re a worker, you need the union! The writers had better get this done now, or everyone will suffer, because the studio heads will figure, well, we broke the writers, we can break the animators or even SAG.
Frank Probst @ 83
I don’t know. But someone on an earlier thread told me that I had a lot of good political stuff conveyed in there. So I am keen to try and watch.
Why does this attitude surprise anyone, really? My self-employed husband gets hit with this “I want it for free” crap all the time. He has his own mini-strikes and work stoppages when people don’t pay him. The clients that do this act all surprised. Like, my parents just give me everything I want, why don’t you? I don’t like paying for things.
He has perfected his “why don’t you grow up” look over the years.
newtonusr @ 63
great! i will post the file and leave a link in this thread for any firepups who want it to help them lobby our senators. in the next few days i’ll try to put together one for representatives.
Adam T @ 54
Yeah, if you like crappy content. Why should the writers bang their heads against a wall if they’re not getting paid! Content is not free, and the free sights are crap!
RonD @ 81
I have to break it to someone I know who loves spy novels. Gently. I have hated that author for a while, but now we have evidence.
Selise,
If you do figure our how we can “broadcast” faxes to congress critters… can you put together a how to as a post or something so when we need to fax em, we are good to go?
mui @ 87
That’s putting it mildly. The first part of the third season was essentially a sci-fi version of our occupation of Iraq.
CTuttle @ 81
No, CT. I only comment here, and occasionally at BradBlog (more so in the past) and always as Valley Girl.
mui @ 80
no, i’m going to upload the file and post a link to it.
itwasntme @ 64