Is Barack Obama suggesting to voters in Iowa that the major reason the Clintons are seen as "divisive" is that they themselves said and did things that divided the country? That would mean the Republican Party of Newt Gingrich and Karl Rove had nothing to do with that perception.
The Des Moines Register's David Yepsen reported on Obama's speech [h/t Susan in Iowa] at the Jefferson-Jackson Day Dinner in Iowa, which Yepsen thought was the best of the bunch:
*He said . . . "we have a chance to bring the country together to tackle problems that George Bush made far worse and that festered long before George Bush took office." Translation: Clinton is divisive and there were problems the Clinton era didn't solve.*He said "the same old Washington textbook campaigns just won't do it in this election." Translation: Democrats can't win running a Bill Clinton campaign again.
. . .
*He said "triangulating and poll-driven positions because we're worried what Mitt or Rudy might say about us just won't do it." He said he offers "change that is not just a slogan" and "change we can believe in." Polls were a hallmark of the Clinton era.
*He said he wanted to "stop talking about the outrage of 47 million Americans without health care and start actually doing something about it." That was a smooth way to remind the audience how Clinton's effort at national health care failed.
*. . . And he said "I am running for president because I am sick and tired of Democrats thinking the only way to look tough on national security is talking and acting and voting like George Bush Republicans." Ouch.
His coup de grace came with this: "When I am the nominee of this party, the Republican nominee will not be able to say I voted for the war in Iraq, or that I gave George Bush the benefit of the doubt on Iran, or that I support Bush-Cheney policies of not talking to leaders that we don't like."
"I don't want to spend the next year or the next four years refighting the same fights that we had in the 1990s," a reference to the polarization of the Clinton years. "I don't want to pit red America against blue America."
Some of this is legitimate criticism of Clinton's votes and campaign strategy. But how does he propose to avoid the divisiveness of the last decade? The extreme partisanship of the last decade, and particularly during the Bush Administration, is a result of a deliberate Rovian policy to govern from the extreme right wing while retaining just enough rubber stamps in Congress to keep a bare majority. The Republicans show every sign of continuing that deliberately divisive strategy. And health care reform didn't fail merely because Hillary was . . . whatever she was. It failed because of a concerted negative and dishonest campaign by Republicans and the insurance industry, among others. And they'll be back.
If Obama has any doubt where the divisiveness comes from, all he has to do is watch the White House and their obstructionist loyalists in Congress. Or he could turn on cable news shows, and not just Fox, but MSNBC and CNN too. Chris Matthews and Tucker Carlson have been personally attacking Hillary Clinton every night on such weighty matters as how she laughs, or why she claps when introduced. CNN guests routinely criticize Hillary for defending herself or they criticize Bill for deflecting the blame. Yesterday, on ABC's "This Week," George Will pontificated that Hillary Clinton "has a computer chip where her soul should be." Yep, it's all Clinton's fault.
If Obama thinks such malicious attacks are only directed at Hillary, and wouldn't be directed at him the moment he became the frontrunner, or he thinks it's Clinton's fault, he has no clue what the Democratic nominee will face next year.
Obama called on his audience to "stand up" against the politics of the past, and that's right. But the politics of the past were designed by Newt and Karl and capitalized by Georgy and Dick's fear mongering. If Obama (or any candidate) wants to be taken seriously, he first needs to convince Americans he understands what the Bush/Cheney regime, its radical followers and a complicit media have done to America and its political discourse and realizes how hard it's going to be to repair the damage. Blaming the Clintons for everything is not just missing the point; it means you're not ready.
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Good morning!
Good morning Scarecrow!
Caw, caw
Good morning, Scarecrow.
Good Morning Scarecrow, I digg it!
Obama is not ready for prime time. As Scarecrow points out, to not see where the real source of divisiveness in the political discourse comes from is indicative of a very fatal flaw in his analysis.
mornin’ crow,
i don’t think obama’s worth going for. because lately, as his focus of differentiation, he merely says, in ways large and small like you’ve just outlined, that he’s not hillary.
i recognize he needs to cut into her poll numbers, but i prefer a candidate who simply says what he’s going to do, not who he is not.
Obama is a lite-weight and out of touch with reality. His command-of-the-obvious score (none) compares unfavorably with that of Tom Friedman (moderate), which is the worst slur I can think of.
Scarecrow, I’ve dismissed Obama because I think he’s too corporatist and is playing for power, not out of any concern for America. I’m supporting John Edwards, a populist (and about the only one who seems to have any understanding of what the not wealthy are going through). I believe the Iowa caucuses will not support Obama.
He may be trying to point out the fact that for many on the right, simply noting the existence of HRC has the effect of a red cape on a bull. While I think that’s largely undeserved, an artifact of the Rovian spin-machine, it is real. For that reason alone, I think she’s not the best candidate. (There are of course other good reasons (pro-war, corporate pandering, political dynasty, etc.) which have been amply discussed here and elsewhere.)
Edwards/Obama ‘08…announce now. Think outside the box….
Watching CNN this morning alternate between the bus depot fire in London and some “cover your butt” time for Armitage from yesterday’s time with the weird breather.
Which takes a mighty effort…being well known that Armitage’s butt extends to envelop his head….
The more I see of the beltway bozo class, the more I think of Chicken Run.
This is part of why I don’t like Obama, and why I’m losing faith with Edwards as well. With all of these valid targets on the right, they’re going to attack a fellow Democrat. It’s a darn shame, because I will not allow myself to vote for Clinton unless she ditches that crappy health care proposal and adopts one that makes sense, so I may have to do a write-in for the primary and the general election. The shame is that, as of yet, there isn’t a single acceptable Democrat among the front runners whom I can vote for.
Good morning, everyone.
Pach sent along this link to a WaPa article that suggests reasons why Hillary is seen differently from Bill.
ok, check out my bold and TRY to tell someone the republicans haven’t bought this man;
sayyyy WHAATTTTT!!!!!!?????
holy CRAP
this country was held in the highest regard in HISTORY before this maggot in office did what he did, the middle class WAS thriving, national defense was STRONG, patriotism was HIGH, upper class was BOOMING, middle class was GROWING, lower class were being reduced, MORE jobs, BETTER PAYING jobs
natianal INTEGRITY and we were looked upon as a FAIR BROKER OF INTERNATIONAL DISPUTES
ok, that’s IT, this man is another lieberman in training
exCUSE me
clinton had REPUBLICAN support as well as demoratic support, it was NEWT you moron that pit red america against blue america
I have had it with this turd
Obama spends way too much time criticizing democrats. He seems not to believe in a ‘vast right wing conspiracy’. Every time he starts a sentence with “What democrats need to start doing…”, I cringe.
solai @ 15
he can forge a fresh direction but he needs to STOP using that “what democrats need to start doing” crap
he can go here;
“this is the direction progressives need to pursue if we are to take this country forward”
bing
using his “what democrats need to start doing” is running as a wolf in sheeps clothing, he is clearly saying he is not a democrat even though he’s running as one
Lindy @ 8
Last poll I saw showed Obama closing on Clinton in NH, and it’s already close in Iowa. Clinton approval has been going down during the last three weeks of assaults, with Obama gaining most, Edwards gaining a little. My own view is that the last three weeks have hurt the eventual nominee, no matter who it is — and that’s separate from what the Democratic Congressional leadership has done to discredit the party.
I realize that driving wedges between the base and the leadership is part of the Republican strategy, so we have to be careful here — but our party doesn’t seem to be fighting back. We need a serious shake up at the top of the party, and soon.
perris @ 13
Made me think about Obama in a different way. (OK, I have known for awhile that Lieberman is Obama’s mentor, but didn’t connect these particular dots until today.) One of the favorite tools of the wingnuts is projection-accusing others of their own particular sins, and also of promising the opposite of what they will be. Remember it was W who promised to be a uniter, not a divider. Obama’s looking like he fits right into the wingnut category.
sorry for the long quote, but this is really on topic and important if you haven’t seen it before.
in september 2005, obama wrote his first diary at daily kos. it was about the senate’s vote to approve the nomination of roberts to the supreme court. obama had voted against the nomination (although he said he would not have supported a filibuster).
and what important topic does obama chose for his very first diary? he chooses to lecture us about our “tone” - that, apparently, is what he saw as the important issue. here’s an excerpt from his diary, “Tone, Truth, and the Democratic Party“
According to the storyline that drives many advocacy groups and Democratic activists - a storyline often reflected in comments on this blog - we are up against a sharply partisan, radically conservative, take-no-prisoners Republican party. They have beaten us twice by energizing their base with red meat rhetoric and single-minded devotion and discipline to their agenda. In order to beat them, it is necessary for Democrats to get some backbone, give as good as they get, brook no compromise, drive out Democrats who are interested in “appeasing” the right wing, and enforce a more clearly progressive agenda. The country, finally knowing what we stand for and seeing a sharp contrast, will rally to our side and thereby usher in a new progressive era.
I think this perspective misreads the American people. From traveling throughout Illinois and more recently around the country, I can tell you that Americans are suspicious of labels and suspicious of jargon. They don’t think George Bush is mean-spirited or prejudiced, but have become aware that his administration is irresponsible and often incompetent. They don’t think that corporations are inherently evil (a lot of them work in corporations), but they recognize that big business, unchecked, can fix the game to the detriment of working people and small entrepreneurs. They don’t think America is an imperialist brute, but are angry that the case to invade Iraq was exaggerated, are worried that we have unnecessarily alienated existing and potential allies around the world, and are ashamed by events like those at Abu Ghraib which violate our ideals as a country.
It’s this non-ideological lens through which much of the country viewed Judge Roberts’ confirmation hearings. A majority of folks, including a number of Democrats and Independents, don’t think that John Roberts is an ideologue bent on overturning every vestige of civil rights and civil liberties protections in our possession. Instead, they have good reason to believe he is a conservative judge who is (like it or not) within the mainstream of American jurisprudence, a judge appointed by a conservative president who could have done much worse (and probably, I fear, may do worse with the next nominee). While they hope Roberts doesn’t swing the court too sharply to the right, a majority of Americans think that the President should probably get the benefit of the doubt on a clearly qualified nominee.
two years ago i was willing to cut him some slack and hope that with more experience he would gain wisdom. very sad to see that has not happened.
His voice catches a little when he talks about Iraq, and when he says torture is never ok.
It seems a little rich for Obama to critcize Clinton for “triangulating” after some of the things he’s pulled, especially in pandering to the homophobes.
Also, if he thinks he’s not going to have to fight the same hyperpartisanship from Republicans and their media enablers if he’s elected, he’s living in a fantasy world.
I think that the substance of his criticism about Clinton’s Bush-enabling record is, for the most part, accurate, however.
He’s not ready for prime time. That a talented young man should be pushed into a race for the Presidency on the strength of essentially one speech to the Democratic convention shows how far our Democracy has come from establishing a sensible way of culling candidates for high office. Bush is the egregious example, and Barack certainly no Bush; but the point remains that he is one election cycle ahead of himself. He should have run for Vice President, like Kennedy did in 1956 when he was in essentially the same spot.
Our current method of selecting national candidates is one of the (many) things wrong with the way we have come to organize our politics. The primary system is counterproductive until we have reconstituted state parties that have real clout and can influence the outcome. Until that happens it will come down to money and organization at the national level, which means in the end, money.
Obama avoids the frame up of the questions asked of him. Russert spent much of his time trying to get a sound bite answer.
Will you raise taxes?….over and over again.
Scarecrow!
Is this the first FDL post with digg it?!
I think I got the digg it zed — or is it the zigg?
here’s a link on how it works pups, digg in
Digg It
i should also say that i think obama’s critique of clinton’s /national security / foriegn policy is right on and completely fair.
dmg @ 6
Well said. And good post, Scarecrow.
I do have to agree with those that say Obama is not yet ready for prime time. When he is asked specific questions he looks as though he is trying to give a “universal” “non-specific” quotable answer. Way too much calculation, not enough knowledge.
Edwards on the other hand is an issue wonk. He really tries to get people to understand the issues. Last weekend I went to a town hall meeting with Edwards where he came back to an earlier questioner to add more information so that the questioner was satisfied. He looks people in the eye when answering questions and does not waffle on answers…a definite requirement here in NH
Also Kate Michleman and Cate Edwards were here. (Kate M. is just as wonderful as she always was… she is one of my heroes…and this from a male) Kate M. emphasized that even though voting for a women would be neat it is more important that we get the right woman. A women that is pro war, pro NAFTA, anti union, waffling on choice, in the pocket of the defense, insurance and pharma is the wrong woman, in other words NOT HRC.
Obama will probably make a pretty good senator for a few years if he can throw off the Lieberman yoke.
Scarecrow @ 17
our party leaders don’t need any help in driving wedges between them and me - they are doing quite well all on their own.
selise @ 28
Selise, you are wonderful! That ‘aint no freakin wedge that is a chasm.
Who’s translations are we reading here, yepsin or firedoglake…come on…don’t you think obama who is a constitutional law professor could be talking about papa bush prior to junior’s reign…the international law forbids preemtive strikes and “taking out” a sovereign country’s leader…so papa bush took out water purification infrastructure of iraq whereby countless iraquis were dying of diarrhea etc, (children and elderly mind you), thus the war on terror had to be created for junior to go after saddam which was before illegal and they know it…obama knows that, kucinich stated it at the last debates….clintons know that…but the stage was set with bushI and we are living the fruits of repeated damages to the iraqui people who are not terrorists…and that is just plain bad karma
Obama is growing in capacity. I’ve heard him speak before but never like this. He is letting his passion show thru. Guess he didn’t listen to all the old dem consultants.
“Not how to win, but why we should win”
Close Gitmo, restore habeas corpus. Not have another generation of Americans sent off to an unnecessary war. No more homeless veterans on the streets and failing schools. Extend health coverage to all. Deal with climate change and poverty. Gee is that so much to ask?
there are so many, imo, legit things to critisize about senator clinton - but divisiveness is not one of them.
Elliott @ 24
Yeah I saw that too. I finally got around to signing up digg just a few days ago too, lol.
Would you please include Edwards speech? He’s my pick to win (and apparently, most everyone who visits FDL) and it would be good to promote him at every turn.
Thanks!
selise @ 19
Perfect quote, Selise. Thanks for the link.
karma couselor @ 30
yeah, but international law also forbids attacking another country except in self defense - unless it is ok’ed by the un security council.
so, he’d have to be talking about president clinton’s (and general clark’s) war crimes too.
karma couselor @ 30
Karma - I agree with you, with the exception that the ‘past’ he talks about goes even farther back than Bush 41. Also, I no longer voice my opinion here at FDL wrt the presidential election. It is futile and my energy is better spent on other things.
I think a lot of the “Clinton Fatigue” is really Republican attack fatigue. Other than Bill and Monica, there wasn’t anything I can think of that they did that was wrong. Whitewater was a completely manufactured scandal, thoroughly investigated by the Bush Justice Dept. before 1992 and rejected as worthy of prosecution, yet resurrected by Ken Starr and the attack machine. The problem is the right wing domination of the media; the “Good Germans” of the right wing; and the inability of the Democrats, because of the media, and funding, to effectively fight back. I think we need to immediately start a training program through the internet to prepare progressives to dominate arguments with conservatives; in order to sway those few that can be knocked off their pins and for the independents to see our arguments, and for the right wing base to stay home. Not an easy task, but achievable. Millions of us effectively talking our message up and showing how the right is logically wrong in nearly every position they take is the way to overcome the media and the funding gap. For instance: Social Security is a money problem; If the Republicans were really concerned about the future generation paying for it they wouldn’t be saddling them with all the deficit spending debt. See it’s easy.
Elliott @ 24
I just noticed that. We used to have all kinds of thingies at the bottom of the post, but they disappeared, and nnow there is just a “share it” link. Have no idea where it goes. You may be the zeddiest digger.
I’ve been sorrily watching Obama fade. He was great and inspiring, and is now fighting the wrong fight.
Go Edwards! Go Dodd!
This man is ready for prime time.
Obama spoke at our CT Jefferson Jackson Dinner 2 years ago, and after viewing his Iowa speech I’m convinced he hasn’t grown much since then. BTW….Lieberman was his mentor in the senate. That’s an awful big learning curve to overcome.
I’m going with Edwards who is on the right track. We are a doomed country when the corporations control what little is left of this democracy.
Laurie @ 34
please don’t make any assumptions about who is my pick to win.
p.s. i much prefer what scarecrow, and other front pagers, have been doing - evaluating both the good and bad things each candidate has been doing. that keeps the focus on the issues, for which i am very grateful.
OT - today is veterans day, and congress is not in session. the weekly list of congressional hearings will be here tomorrow morning.
Bluetoe @ 5
I disagree.
What you miss is that Clinton’s strategy encompasses Rove style strategies. It’s an old book and Hillary is running a campaign very similar to that of the ‘W’. That doesn’t disturb you?
Obama is inspiring us to change
Clinton is old school and old money, stale same old same old.
It’s disappointing that you don’t see this.
selise @ 36
To be clear, everything inside the quote/bracket is from Yepsen — so those comments are his. Everything outside the quote bracket is mine.
If Obama meant the focus to be on Republicans, eg. Bush 41, it would have been simple enough to make that absolutely clear. I think it would have made his speech more effective if he had explained where this politics of the past came from, whether from his own party or the Republicans. I think his supporters would appreciate that. Being ambiguous about something this important — if that’s what he was being — is not helpful.
Obama could be helping himself more, and helping his Party by using his considerable intellect to explain clearly and forcefully why things went so badly in the last 10 years or so.
The quote Selise linked to shows he can do this. I agree with him that much of America does not see what is happening in stark ideological terms — but he can. I’d prefer that instead of muddying this up, he helped shape America’s perception so that they’re more likely to support what he or any Dem President will need to do.
Prairie Sunshine @ 10
April @ 44
Obama & inspire in the same sentence? Sarcasm?
perris @ 16
Choke *cough*.
And how much energy has the left blogosphere put into trashing democrats.
Obama draws a contrast for change and you get all weepy for the stale playbook of yesteryear?
http://www.danablankenhorn.com.....t-nix.html
excerpt: Stop blaming Hillary Clinton for the problems of the Democratic Party. Place the blame where it belongs, on Republicans, on Nixon’s heirs.
As I have noted here many times, Richard Nixon still dominates American politics as Franklin D. Roosevelt dominated much of the 1960s. The Bush Administration’s policies are completely Nixonian, and every single Republican candidate is a Nixonite.
This link of John Edwards did not make it through.
http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=3818010
Scarecrow @ 45
I don’t get this supposed strategy of supporting your opponents without drawing distinctions???? The best way for Barack to win is to embrace Hillary Democrats……
Ask yourself how Hillary feels about Joe Lieberman, the civil rights marcher. Hillary has voted with Joe more often than not.
And how much energy has the left blogosphere put into trashing democrats.
You could not be more right. The media will attack the Democratic frontrunner relentlessly. Their attacks are so thin that they must repeat them incessantly for a long time for them to become part of the national mindset. This is calculated and deliberate. This is what Chris Matthews is paid to do. It does not happen to Republicans, the television is barely interested in Rudy’s pushing a derranged criminal to head the protection of the USA against the terrorists.
Maybe the Democrats best strategy is a hung convention so no one knows who the nominee will be until August. This would then give them only a couple of months to sow doubt through repetition.
You’re right. It is important the debate the issues that each bring daily, at this point. I was just referring to the poll the FDL did not long ago, and Edwards won that “by a landslide”. Tickled me!!!
eCAHNomics @ 47
Obviously you are stuck in the past, so I see there is no hope that you will change your mind.
Just be aware that others have different opinions and many of them represent the younger generation.
Swopa @ 26
Ditto and ditto. Obama had a chance on Sunday to explain what he really stands for, instead all we got was pabulum about how he wants to bring people together. Very disappointing. I think at this point he’s morphing into a stalking horse to help Clinton get nominated by drawing votes away from the people who really want to change things.
April @ 44
I agree that Obama has inspired many, and I think that’s been good for him and good for the party. I guess I’m not sure what the inspiration is leading to, though. Where is he heading with his analyis?
If you listen to the entire speech, you’ll find the classic political elements: — name all the things you dislike and criticize them, say you want to change them all, say you’re the person who can change them, but never explain how you’ll do it or what you want to change to.
My post isn’t intended as a defense of Clinton’s campaign, but as a critique of Obama’s world view, implied by this speech. Does he really believe that the problem with our politics is a result of divisiveness caused by the Clintons? Are they principal causes, or the principal victims? It makes a huge difference how one answers this question, even if one dislikes the Clintons for any number of reasons.
Just be aware that others have different opinions and many of them represent the younger generation.
Is that supposed to be encouraging?
aye @ 52
See DailyKos…… the DLC democrats as republican lite. Don’t we want that to change? How does this change with Clinton’s when they are the poster children for the DLC dems.
April @ 55
Were you inspired by W when he said he was a uniter, not a divider?
April @ 44
i don’t think i see it… would you explain? thx.
Living in Texas, I won’t have a say in the nomination, so my position is simply that I will support whichever Democrat gains the nomination. As always, I think candidates should not go so far out in criticism that they can’t believably come back and support the nominee. Otherwise, we have the fractures that gave us Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan,and George Bush.
As far as the continuing divisions of the 90’s, I don’t see any role either Clinton played in creating the bitterness. I heard conservatives talking about impeachment the day after Clinton’s first election.
IMO, Nothing in Obama’s speech is unifying. I’ve googled this quote to no avail. I must have it a little wrong and I don’t know who said it. But someone said (paraphrased) ‘That which unites us is far stronger than that which divides us’. THAT is a unifying statement. What Obama says does not bring a feeling of unity, it has the opposite effect. And, that is my complaint about him. Don’t just talk about the need for unity, give a speech that makes us feel like we ARE one nation.
April — I don’t get this supposed strategy of supporting your opponents without drawing distinctions???? The best way for Barack to win is to embrace Hillary Democrats……
I haven’t suggested Obama refrain from distinguishing himself from other candidates. The focus is on his analysis of where extreme divisiveness in American politics comes from. I don’t believe the Clintons are responsible for this, or that saying so well help Democrats, including Obama, both win the election and solve the problems when in office.
April @ 55
which is why it is important to talk about what the substance beneath the shinny surface.
BlueMesa @ 56
So your vote is to stay as divided as possible? That’s an odd set of ideals.
Especially considering how disenfranchised Republicans and Independents are looking for something other than Bush/Clinton divisiveness.
Are you really that invested in keeping the country divided?
I honestly do not like some of Hillary’s votes. I don’t like some of Hillary and Bills positions. But I will tell you this. I think Obama is naive about the “vast right wing conspiracy.” I don’t think he has a grasp on how truly evil they are.
I think Hillary and Bill know. I think what I don’t like is that she plays right along side them. I have mixed feelings about this. I have a great fear that none of the candidates but for the Clintons really understand the power that this shadow gov’t weilds.
She may have fallen a few points, but honestly, his words concern me more than hers. I know she will compromise with corporate america. I didn’t like that Bill did, but I also understand that this is how he got things done. He compromised and he was able to move the agenda forward. This absolutely enraged the conservatives. Remember how they said he was stealing their plans?? And to say that because he compromised, he’s just like them, is black and white thinking. The facts show and I was in a position to know that poor folks moved to the middle class and the poorest of folks had much more of what they needed than they do today. Bills dedication to domestic violence was a huge benefit to poor folks. We had shelters for women and children. He did so much for that issue and it’s probably one of the greatest plagues for the poorest of the nation.
I think we need to remember this. I like Kucinish best of all, for his stand on impeachment and pacifism. But I do not think he will win. I also Like Edwards and believe he may have a better understanding of the corporatocracy. I believe that Bill and Hillary have carefully crafted a public view that looks as if they will not hurt the corporate as badly as corporate fears.
We’ll see what happens. I will vote for whatever democrat comes to the surface, but I do not think that most of the candidate understand what we are facing. I fear that Obama is too naive on this point.
This may be wrong. But I don’t think Obama understands that our great country has slipped into a fascist state. I don’t think he gets how much power they have and that his troubles will only begin once he is president. I don’t want to go through that learning curve again. I believe that the Clintons know exactly what they are facing.
I am also very disappointed that he has not voted on important issues and that he has not taken a strong stand on anything backed by behaviors. He talks a strong stand, but I do not see the behaviors to back it. I know the behaviors of the Clintons, they did back their word in many ways…in that they took care of the poor and middle class. They earned the rage of the shadow gov’t. Earned it by deed.
selise -
{{{One very last note for you downstairs.}}}
Scarecrow @ 45 -
thanks for the clarification - i misread the comment.
Scarecrow @ 57
No, Obama is not ready. It’s pretty clear that he doesn’t trust his own voice or his own vision, and that his positions are tactical.
Now it is hard to differentiate yourself from Clinton while holding essentially the same policy positions. At first, it looked like he would do that with charm and charisma–and a freshness of both relative youth and a very different life story.
But all that’s been sanded off to avoid making waves and positioning to the center–perhaps the Joe Klein/DC consultancy/traditional media center. One cannot really blame the strategists; look what happened to Dean. And look at the coverage Edwards and Dodd, both of whom are speaking more authentically, are not getting.
But we need not lose heart yet. The Clinton inevitability narrative can be easily thrown over by performance in Iowa, made still more unpredictable by a date ridiculously close to the holidays. Pollsters looking to second choices when trying to guess the outcome might be better off looking at intensity of the first choice, because it has hard to believe the turnout will be high.
To my mind, it doesn’t matter who wins, or does better than expected as long as it shakes things up. A plodding media narrative of an inevitable Clinton against one of the two loons will be bad entertainment, if nothing else.
April @ 48
for me, the question is: “is the criticism a fair one”
not all critiques are equal.
Obama’s strength is that he has one or two really great speeches.
His weakness is that he has already given them, and they are not the really great speeches America needs at this time.
Obama, not Hillary is the best candidate the Right could wish.
Hil has the ability to gain support from untapped sources - Obama will only continue to dissappoint.
selise @ 61
Declaring herself the pre-emptive front runner ‘W’ style. Pushing the (national) polls with Mark Penn. Sucking up to Rupert Murdoch. Sucking up to Drudge. Taking money from military contracters. Planting questions at debates. Buying support from DLC dems, because if she does win and you didn’t support her, you will be screwed politically.
Ask yourself this. Why did Al Gore NOT use the massive political prowess of the Clinton’s during his campaign for President.
Why is there a chilly divide between Gore and the Clinton’s?
You can read the whole Yepsen article here. I agree with Yepsen that the Obama speech was the best. Everyone else I’ve talked to who saw the dinner says the same thing, and I don’t know any Obama supporters. Dodd and Biden were also good. The other three were forgettable renditions of standard stump speeches. Everyone in that hall could recite portions of them by heart. To his credit, Obama was fresh and inspiring.
Yepsen is the one who brings in the word “divisive.” In fairness, it does not appear in his Obama quotes. Obama is not the only one who has alluded to the fact that Clinton has high unfavorables going back a long time.
As Biden says, some of it isn’t Clinton’s fault. The wingers have been after her since 1991.
Some of it is her fault, though. Her personality is both aggressive and defensive, and had the effect of escalating some fights during the Clinton administration that perhaps could have been defused, like refusing to turn over records. Campaigns, like companies, have what is called “company culture.” Hers is aggressive to a degree that is remarkable by itself.
Apart from whether her conduct is responsible for division, it is fair to ask whether her unfavorability ratings will result in a close election that will hurt candidates down the ballot. Living in the Midwest, I have listened to people, predominantly men, talk about how they can’t stand her. There is an irrationality to it that is perhaps explained by the WaPo article Pach linked to. Whatever the reasons, fair or not, that dislike will have an impact if she is the nominee.
solai @ 63
I think you have hit the bell on this one, Solai - the issue in my mind STILL is that there seems to be such a huge polarization in the US. Blue vs. Rd. Rich vs. Poor(and middle class). Christian vs. Not. And on and on and on. To find someone who is a “uniter” means that vast groups of voters have to give up the whole “I will only vote for the person who suports this one issue”. No candidate can be everything to everyone. And until voters will start thinking “what is best for the country as a whole” rather than “what I personally WANT”, we will continue to see these divisive campaigns, I think.
One of the things I really don’t understand is the criticism of Hillary Clinton as calculating, heartless, too much of a policy wonk, etc.. Personally, I think we may never recover from an uninterested, uninformed, lazy, gut reaction president.
Katie Jensen @ 67
It sounds as though we need a composite candidate. I really liked how the Party as a whole looked when all eight were on the stage. Each brought important insights. But any one of them lacks the strengths, insights or experience the others have. Perhaps we ask too much of any one person.
Katie Jensen @ 67
What you are missing is temperment and character.
ON these points Obama far outweighs every other candidate, both Republican and Democratic.
But this DOES illustrate part of Obama’s point - the Right wing propaganda machine also known as the Mainstream Media is not only ready with a full arsenal of illegitimate attacks against Hillary (how long til Vince Foster’s name emerges, or Travelgate?), but the US population is already “pre-sick” of them.
Will they do the same thing to Obama? Sure! But it will be all-new slander and libel, fresh new lies based on everytime Obama knew someone who committed suicide, or staffed an office.
But the REAL problem isn’t Hilary or Obama - the real problem isn’t even Rove and Gingrich. The REAL problem is that the MSM is “pwned” (to use a term my kids employ) by the Right. The MSM is a propaganda machine - not just Fox News and the WSJ, but NPR and NBC. They have been so succcessfully shifted rightward, and so thoroughly trained by 25 years of shoddy journalism and right-wing framing, that they work as a Republican propaganda vehicle effortlessly, almost without trying.
Until this is addressed, it doesn’t matter who the Left nominates, they will always battle a deluge of lies on their way to power. Because that’s just how the system works now.
April,
If Hillary Clinton is nominated, and Barack Obama endorses her, what will you do with regard to voting?
Susan in Iowa @ 74
First, thanks for the link; I put it in the main post. And second, this is a very helpful perspective.
April @ 66
Changing things always means being divisive to some degree. I don’t agree that Bush and Clinton were basically divisive. In fact, (Bill) Clinton ran on trying to attract Republicans to the Democratic Party, and Bush claimed to be a “uniter, not a divider” in order to get elected. Of course, we all found out Bush was lying.
Usually in politics saying you want to be “non-divisive” is a code word for saying you like the status quo. You don’t want to make any waves. Maybe a few adjustments here and there, but basically we should just stick with the course we’re on.
Sorry, but I don’t like the course we’re on and I’m looking for someone who will make a change.