Login HereHere's another interesting juxtaposition: Glenn Greenwald's post about how the otherwise alarming Ron Paul is attracting support, money and excitement thanks to his emphatic pro-Constitution and antiwar positions; and David Sirota's post on how Mike Huckabee and John Edwards are running as anti-corruption, anti-oligarchy, anti-economic-inequality populists.
[Warning: Paragraph composed entirely of questions to follow. You may want to avert your eyes.]
I don't like any of Ron Paul or Mike Huckabee's other positions, but how strange is it that two Republican candidates are offering stronger antiwar, pro-rule-of-law, populist messages than the two front-running Democrats and the entire party leadership? How did this happen? Shouldn't all of those messages be core elements of the Democratic brand? Could it be that we're seeing a People Party/Money Party divide instead of a Republican/Democrat divide? Is it even possible for Republicans to belong to the People Party? Maybe Huckabee belongs to the Grassroots Theocrat Party instead?
Here's an ethical and strategic question to consider: If Paul and/or Huckabee (or some other fundamentalist candidate backed by the We-Hate-Rudy Religious Right) decides to make a third-party run, should Democrats and progressives help them get on the ballot, like Republicans and conservatives did for Nader? It's underhanded but not illegal, and it would be chock full o' poetic justice.
Finally, a comment on populism's upside that I couldn't integrate gracefully into the rest of the post: When done right, like in John Edwards' great New Hampshire speech, it reminds people who are struggling of why they're struggling. They're not struggling because of the blacks or the gays or the immigrants or the women's lib, they're struggling because the rich and powerful have rigged the system for their own benefit. This would be a very powerful message for the Democratic party, if they cared to use it.
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Eli!!!
Matt!!!
Got lucky once more!
Ron Paul sounds good but is bad news.
It’s definitely all about the money. ::sigh::
P’takh on the rich and powerful. Good post, Eli!
Eli, I’m like three seconds into this video and lmao!
AZ Matt @ 3
Ron Paul scares me because he knows just what to say to hit a certain segment of the population. Kind of reminds me of Perot in 1992, but more frightening.
Eli!
Liss @ 4
Corporate money is like an anchor dragging the Democratic party down. The main thing they have going for them is that it’s dragging the Republicans down faster (along with crazy fundamentalists and warmongers).
Excellent post, Eli!
That was a very beautifully put and elegant framing of the absolutely necessary turnabout from Left/Right to people/money.
We the people, at a planetary level, are the only collective force capable of setting the money-ego-politics straight, by honoring that which is inherently whole and sane about humanity. Including our collective desire for an inhabitable planet and TRUE PEACE.
People value cooperation and tolerance
Money values profit
Ego values power
Ego devalues the heart
People know better. People are sick of the superficial and the dark and the ego-driven fool.
Here is to all of us, dropping our past politics and stepping up to the collective human need to establish sanity, and peace, and wisdom on our planet, and for our species gone awry.
One species.
One people.
No differences.
Dayam, a very good question…
“I don’t like any of Ron Paul or Mike Huckabee’s other positions, but how strange is it that two Republican candidates are offering stronger antiwar, pro-rule-of-law, populist messages than the two front-running Democrats and the entire party leadership?”
Inquiring minds want to know… 8-(
RP requires a whipping boy or three. He is preaching hate essentially. When it is someone elses fault it is easy to get people all worked up. Tancredo and Huckabee aren’t much different - blame the brown man is what they are about.
We the people @ 11
One People, One Planet…
Here’s another interesting juxtaposition:
Say It’s So, Joe
Vice President Lieberman?
by William Kristol
Comedy gold — Kristol must be having kittens…
AZ Matt @ 13
That’s the strange thing about populism and immigration. I think the Huckabee strain is more nativist, where the corporations are using immigrants and foreigners to disempower honest hardworking Americans.
But really, it’s not the immigrants who are the problem.
neokneme @ 15
I would totally be trying to angle the Republican nominee towards Lieberman.
Today I was going across the American River in Rancho Cordova. On the bridge abutment was a homemade Ron Paul sign that had the word “love” interlaced with the word elect. But love was inverted. Weird. There certainly are a ton of people out there who are very enthusiastic about Mr. Paul. Unfortunately, many think he is going to be their conquering hero.
Bush Plays Video Game
marymccurnin @ 18
Have you seen the one I snapped on Labor Day, outside the John Edwards rally?
Millineryman @ 19
He’s totally been in the shit, and understands how scary and intense war is.
So the Dem leadership seems to have forgotten that it was the get out the vote efforts of the left that got them into power. As Karl reminds us, it’s in the math and if the leadership thinks they can demoralize the left and still win they will be in for a big surprise. What a bunch of fools. Sorry for the random rant.
Eli @ 20
It’s like a cult!
Millineryman @ 19
Dana needs to quit shooting her blond mouth off. I apologize to all blonds in advance.
So far I’ve seen more Ron Paul yard signs and bumper stickers then anyone else.
should Democrats and progressives help them get on the ballot, like Republicans and conservatives did for Nader?
ABSOLUTELY
But they won’t. Hell, they wouldn’t even pony up a million or so to recall Schwarzenegger out here in California, preferring instead to spend 45 million on Angiledes. We could have had 45 recalls for that amount of money, surely one of them would have been successful. The Democrats just don’t seem to have the desire to fight with every weapon at their disposal…
Eli @ 21
From a cocaine induced haze while AWOL in the States.
realworld @ 22
It’s a huge pet peeve of mine. The appeal-to-the-center-which-is-really-the-right strategy is suicidal.
Even *if* you succeed in appealing to independents/moderates/undecideds, they’re not going to be fired up like the base, so their numbers are going to be diluted by low turnout.
What Rove understands, and the Democratic leadership doesn’t, is that turnout is a force multiplier.
If I had a million to spend, you can bet I would mount a recall.
Rusty Austin @ 26
Like, say, filibustering Mukasey.
Eli @ 20
I have also seen a lot of Ron Paul signs, more signs than Clinton signs if you except staged rallies (although I admit that may reflect where I happen to live). I think the Greenwald analysis is the best, Ron Paul represents a reasoned opposition to Washington politics as usual, something the Democrats simply are not providing.
Eli @ 20
‘Tower of Strength?’ Whew, their Koolaid must be spiked with a little extra kick…
I am tired of trying to figure out why the dems need to get anger stoking management.
Eli @ 30
absolutely, hopefully this whole Iraq funding thing will come to a head in the next few weeks, but I ain’t counting on it…
Eli @ 28
Amen.
Eli @ 17
Reading between the lines, it sounds like Billy the K. thinks Rude_E need not apply for Pres.
I do not support Ron Paul because he is too Conservative, in the classical definition. But he is against the War? Why do Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi support the war?
I think they are controlled by Converse-Infosys.
Rusty Austin @ 34
I think it’ll be a repeat of the last “showdown”. They might pass a good bill, and then Dubya’ll veto it and start posturing about how the Democrats are endangering the troops, and they’ll cave. They don’t know how to fight the “Democrats are endangering the troops!” meme, and they won’t listen to our suggestions.
Has anyone seen what’s on TNT tonight?
Hint: Nancy, Steny, Rahm and Harry could take a lesson from it.
Huckabee yes, Paul no. Helping out Paul is playing with fire, as he really will peel off Dem voters. (If this could be you, I have two phrases for you: Supreme Court, and Departmental staffers. Even Hillary will end up appointing a lot of progressives into these mid-level and Assistant Secretary roles, and I think Monica Goodling and Douglas Feith have shown us that that is something that matters). Of course, as I’ve said before, we don’t want to help Paul, but we should use him as a bogeyman to the Dem leadership if they don’t do more of what we want.
On the other hand, I think none of us will be tempted by Huckabee.
Rusty Austin @ 34
Nope, the Democrats will roll over and give Bush every penny he wants, just like they did six months ago.
Professor Foland @ 40
If the Democrats nominate a strong antiwar candidate, Paul will not be a threat.
But they have to nominate a strong antiwar candidate.
Geezie Cressie Eli. I just got stuck over at your photo site. Afu***ingmazing!
Eli @ 38
What’s so galling, is we’re their Base… (Hint, Hint!)
marymccurnin @ 43
Aw, thanks, Mary.
Eli @ 42
There are no antiwar candidates among the “front runner” Democrats. The only hope of ending the war, paradoxically enough, is if a Republican wins in 2008.
I have chosen to become a mole in the republican party and I fully plan to vote for RP in the primary.
Wouldn’t getting RP on the ballot completely demoralize all the mouth breathers?!!
Oh what fun!
If nothing else, at the very least I will cancel some fool’s vote for Rudy.
C’mon, join the republican party and effect change from the inside - you know the dem “leadership” will follow the GOP’s torturing lead no matter what.
Are the dems representing your interests? I doubt it. Representing their constituents has been taken off the table.
Want to effect change in our neurotic political system?
Try gorilla politicking, it’s what all the disaffected, disregarded former democratic kids are doing.
Anger management IS the Dem leadership’s game. They are afraid of righteous anger, because who else but them becomes the target when, after sell-out after sell-out, the peasants finally erupt. Messy, messy, and all the wrong types of people might get elected.
OT - brace yourselves, Newt has gone green:
BlueMesa @ 46
The strongest antiwar Dems are Richardson, Dodd, Kucinich, and Gravel. The first two are probably the only ones with *any* shot. Edwards *might* be okay, but he did have that “everything’s on the table with Iran” speech.
punaise @ 49
I could throw up
Here’s an ethical and strategic question to consider: If Paul and/or Huckabee (or some other fundamentalist candidate backed by the We-Hate-Rudy Religious Right) decides to make a third-party run, should Democrats and progressives help them get on the ballot, like Republicans and conservatives did for Nader? It’s underhanded but not illegal, and it would be chock full o’ poetic justice.
This was once a conventional tactic by big city machine type pols-especially Dems. If it works, do it.
Great post Eli, cuts through all the village bullshit.
Elliott @ 51
The bitter irony is he’s right… If Big Oil stepped aside, our know-how could riddle us out this enigma…
Eli @ 50
I agree absolutely on your list. They won’t be elected, though. It’s what’s wrong with the Democratic Party in a nutshell — the candidates that most represent the majority of the base are precisely the ones that the leadership is against. You don’t find that problem in the Republican party — the candidate that the Republican voters support is the candidate that the Republican Party will support. That’s a large part of their strength, as, to be fair, it should be.
Elliott @ 51
Green bile?
The Newt green is probably mold.
marymccurnin @ 56
bile means
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 39
We’re off to see the Pollster…
BlueMesa @ 55
The Republicans embrace their base; the Democrats think theirs is an embarrassment and a liability.
But you can’t tell me that our base is anywhere *near* as mortifyingly crazy as theirs.
ccmask @ 57
This Green would work… “…create billion-dollar prizes to inspire inventors to innovate our way to a clean energy future.”
*g*
GordonM @ 59
if I only had a filibuster
Eli @ 60
Not at all. I agree with your point earlier that alienating their base is pure suicide for the Democratic Party. They did it in 2000, they did it in 2004, it looks like they are hell-bent on doing it again in 2008, with I’m afraid the same result, losing an election that by all rights they should have won easily.
now here’s a plan : Get Gore to candidate.
Not as a Dem, but as a green. Frame it as a pure political statement, as setting a sign, which is important in this media age, as testing the waters for further candidates, bla bla …
And he will win on every issue.
BlueMesa @ 63
Just to be clear, I wasn’t suggesting that you were; just a turn of phrase.
Spiritcatcher @ 64
That would be interesting. He’s probably the only person in the country who could win as a third-party candidate.
Spiritcatcher @ 64
My dream is that Gore and Bloomberg team up to run as independents. Why would anybody bother to vote for either the Democrats or the Republicans?
I don’t see Gore running as third party.
And the Dems then go and also try to embrace the GOP base.
punaise @ 68
Me neither; although he’d be a more authentic Green candidate than Nader.
Spiritcatcher @ 64
Sure, and then get Hil to pick up Juck Foe as VP on her tix. Lol!
OT but-
This is a John Edwards quote from a recent speech delivered by satellite to a conference in Israel. It really scares me.
link
Praedor Atrebates @ 69
In fairness, everyone tells them that that *is* the center.
But they should still know better.
BlueMesa @ 67
I read that and heaved a sigh, what if both parties imploded? I could go for a seismic shift in alliances.
Eli @ 66
All he would need to do is take what Edwards Kucinich and Dodd are saying, get Gore Vidal to rewrite it.. Accept no corporate campaign contributions and wear a helmet around Clinton supporters.
Eli @ 73
Inside the Beltway, it truly is the center. But only inside the Beltway.
Great post, Eli. I like the idea of gathering around Kucinich, Dodd, or Gravel for the same purpose. ;-)
Eli @ 65
Heh, if they want to commit suicide, can we at least offer them katanas so it would be a honorable Seppuku… 8~)
Seamus D @ 72
You and me both. He totally gets it on domestic policy, but he seems to have completely bought into the idea that Democrats have to prove how tough and manly they are on foreign policy.
KayInMaine @ 77
Dodd is far and away my favorite, although I wavered a bit when Edwards made that great speech, and Dodd went a little reactionary on driver’s licenses for illegal immigrants.
BlueMesa @ 67
Fits the bubble curve — could happen. Gore wouldn’t finish the term however, and Bloomberg would preside over 36 months of recession.
Elliott @ 74
Works for me! Let’s get a real candidate who represents the true center according to the polls. You know, withdrawal from Iraq, something like Medicare-for-everyone health care, progressive taxation that has the rich paying their fair share, some reasonable immigration policy, some policy that reduces our output of greenhouse gases without bankrupting the economy. As far as I’m concerned, the Democrats are already heading to being the real “third party”!
punaise @ 68
Why, has he lost too much weight?
Eli @ 80
Mine too.
Eli @ 80
yeah, Dodd’s response seemed to be coming from a rather “entitled” point of view. Knocked me back.
Well, as a matter of fact, I’m actually going to register as a rethug this year. I’m thinkin’ I can then vote AGAINST Rube Jewisharmy PLUS if there are “problems” getting into, at, involved with the pols, I’ll likely have a ticket in.
Of course it’s not illegal. And that’s just for the primaries. The actual presidential elections, well, I can still vote my dem choice. It’s underhanded to be sure. But SOMEONE’S gotta fight fire with fire, since our democratic congress won’t do it. SOMEONE’S gotta grow some big and ruthless ones, and do something to stop this insanity, SINCE OUR SPECIALLY ELECTED 110TH WON’T. (Mandate Schmandate, Nancy and Stenny chuckled as they quietly snuck down the hall toward their next BIG DEAL with their respective lobbyist BFFs, ducking into corners and closets avoiding any opponents in their paths.)
And no one can say a word about that. I’m curious how I’ll be received down at City Hall. Where I live is a fairly backward cowboy and red community. It’ll be an interesting experience, I’m thinkin’.
And there’ll be some heavy bottle tipping the day I register, switching my affiliation. I just hope I can control the gag reflex.
siri@legitgov.org
www.legitgov.org
BlueMesa @ 82
*S*
CTuttle @ 12
Karl Rove?
Valley Girl @ 85
Dodd is very “presidential looking” (not a high bar after having Lunkhead in there for seven years now) and also has a commanding voice. If Dodd, Kucinich, and Gravel were the top 3 right now, I would be more motivated than I am. The top 3 candidates chosen by the ROM (republican owned media) are just not doing it for me. I don’t think they ever will unless they do a 180.
Eli @ 79
Its not just that, its how angry he comes across and how much he seems to invest in the “poor Israel, its all Iran, Syria, and the Palestinian’s fault” for not leaving well enough alone.
KayInMaine @ 89
I think Edwards is the best of the three, primarily based on his understanding of the country’s structural problems, but he has negatives, and not just the blowing-up-Iran-is-still-on-the-table thing.
siri @ 86
I like the notion, but I would worry about the surge the Repugs would hype about the populace voting Repug, irregardless, that it would be for RP…
And BTW, William Kristol is not having kittens. His offspring hat