In case you were wondering about the need for individual, particularized warrants for American citizens under FISA, wonder no more:
...Verizon also disclosed that the FBI, using administrative subpoenas, sought information identifying not just a person making a call, but all the people that customer called, as well as the people those people called. Verizon does not keep data on this "two-generation community of interest" for customers, but the request highlights the broad reach of the government's quest for data.
The disclosures, in a letter from Verizon to three Democrats on the House Energy and Commerce Committee investigating the carriers' participation in government surveillance programs, demonstrated the willingness of telecom companies to comply with government requests for data, even, at times, without traditional legal supporting documents. The committee members also got letters from AT&T and Qwest Communications International, but those letters did not provide details on customer data given to the government. None of the three carriers gave details on any classified government surveillance program.
From January 2005 to September 2007, Verizon provided data to federal authorities on an emergency basis 720 times, it said in the letter. The records included Internet protocol addresses as well as phone data. In that period, Verizon turned over information a total of 94,000 times to federal authorities armed with a subpoena or court order, the letter said. The information was used for a range of criminal investigations, including kidnapping and child-predator cases and counter-terrorism investigations.
Verizon and AT&T said it was not their role to second-guess the legitimacy of emergency government requests.... (emphasis mine)
Beyond the blatant attempt at fobbing this onto the government by playing the "we're just being patriotic and who are we to ask questions" game, playing Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon with people's phone records without any third-party court review of the requests is an open door for abuse.
Multiply that across every telecommunications company in the United States and the number of years that the Bush Administration has been end-running the FISA court altogether using Patriot Act provisions that were meant as emergency situation stop-gaps (and not as everyday occurrances). Add in the fact that, as ex-Qwest CEO Joseph Nacchio says, the Bush Administration was already pushing for these legal end-runs a full six months prior to 9/11/01...and you have a recipe for an Administration who could give a rat's ass about the rule of law, and which still didn't keep America safe from attack even with their end-run of FISA.
Look at the article snippet: there were 94,000 times that Verizon turned over information under a lawful subpoena and/or court order. Why the end-run of 720 times of emergency information grabs? Some of these might have been wholly legitimate emergency situations, but the overuse of these provisions across the board coupled with significant questions about security of the information gathered -- including the recent review saying that they were used in some situations for wholly inappropriate reasons without remotely adequate oversight and supervision -- ought to raise a whole host of red flags for potential abuse.
Do you trust George Bush and Dick Cheney not to misuse their authority or not overreach in their information grabs? Me neither.
For the record, I used to get phone records and other information for criminal prosecutions from these companies all the time. I used a warrant which came with judicial review of the particulars. You know why? Because that is what the law requires. With great power comes a great responsibility to ensure that this power is used wisely and carefully.
National security concerns are important -- but so is following the law and upholding the Constitution. We must respect both security and liberty. Please make some calls regarding FISA today -- and tell your Senators and Representatives to say no to retroactive immunity for telecoms -- because we aren't even close to knowing the full story on this mess yet. Don't forget that Cheney's Law will be broadcast this evening on Frontline. I hear it's going to be a doozy...
More from Jack at Balkinization (including a streaming BloggingheadsTV interview with Jack on FISA, the rule of law and national security concerns) and Glenn Greenwald at Salon.
(H/T to reader Ima Patriot Too for the heads up on this.)
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Christy!
I sleep so much better knowing Christy is on the J.O.B.
After I read the information she brings, however…
Very sobering and should make EVERYONE in this country sit up and take notice…
I had posted this link earlier but it is on topic here. Editorial from today’s Denver Post Stand up for civil liberties with the subhead of “It’s time for Democrats to stick up for the rule of the law and fight the president on the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act.”
peanutbutter @ 3
The ditttoheads will spin it as a good thing, and not n issue over which “patriotic” Americans should be worried.
Wait until Clinton, Obama, or Edwards takes over - they’ll be calling for blood.
Maybe we can create some more toxic ads to put up in Congresscritters hometowns, so their country club buddies can see it. I really love how the SCHIP thing is going. Could we nail them on FISA as well? Got some pocket change to spare.
Watch the whole video to find out how the wiretapping and datamining works and who has access to this datamining.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aUzuzs2oC0
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/Israeli-Spy
ing-Part-3.htm
if “individual, particularized warrants” are important to you, TODAY is your last day to lobby in support of that position.
our democratic leadership in the House is preparing to vote away our fourth amendment rights TOMORROW by voting for H.R.3773 (the so called “restore act”)…. while H.R.3782 (a good alternative) remains stuck in committee.
I particularly appreciate your perspective as a former prosecutor who got necessary information within the law, by getting the required subpoenas, for your cases.
Don’t miss this article Christy linked as “including the recent review”
EFF warns House committee about the privacy risks of government databases
selise @ 8
Ughh. Selise who is most responsible for that do you think? Voting on shite, other is stuck?
Given that so many innocent people are swept up in this manic drive to determine who may be a “terrorist” it would seem that tens of thousands, if not millions, clearly have “standing”.
How is this so different from when a polluter releases toxins into the environment that covers an area. Not EVERYONE in that zone are effected, but one can call forward a “class action suit” in behalf of those that WERE! And obtaining those names would be quite simple, actually.
And I really don’t see the argument that any of this would “compromise” government methods and sources to terrorists. There is nothing particularly here that would allow terrorists to avoid detection through using some methodology.
We know that the phone companies released thousands of records. So we know the NSA’s “source”. And the methods the NSA used are hardly sophisticated.
mui @ 6
the problem with FISA is that we are being fucked over by our own leadership on this one.
see my comments from previous thread (here and here)
It sure appears that congressional oversight is back in style after six years of Republican oversight slumber. Let’s hope Senator Rockefeller and others on the Intelligence committee and Pelosi, Harman and those in the House responsible for oversight accept their full responsibility and do not in any way allow for any type of “retroactive immunity” for US or Israeli telecommunication companies.
The American people are hungry to witness our Reps enforce oversight and for ACCOUNTABILITY.
Ever notice how these thugs always have lawyers in tow and never do anything without getting their legal department to bless it?
But now why even call their high paid layers.. just tell uncle sam.. we’re patriots. We’re in!
mui @ 11
pelosi, conyers and reyes - these three control the process (i’m sure hoyers is not on our side either, but that’s to be expected).
I suspect if someone did some digging, you might find that these violations go back to Bush’s first few months in office…anyone remember the don’t call lists. Wonder what they did with that information?????
selise @ 13
What is wrong with Nancy Pelosi these days. I don’t understand her positions?
Shorter young Junya: “Ah shore wish ah could hear what everybody’s sayin’ ’bout me.”
selise @ 16
Steny Hoyers. Harummph. Of course not.
What time is the vote again. In the house?
I am going to say for the five hundredth time: this was perfectly screamingly predictable. How so? The entire illegitimacy of the Bush junta was and is rooted in total contempt for the law, it was born that way in Bush vs. Gore.
They empirically were shown that for them the law meant nothing. Of course they’d break it like they breathe, when you trash the democracy to steal an election the law means nothing.
Everyone just said oh well, Bush will be all right, I freaking screamed to the heavens this would happen, god damn it.
And speaking of do not call legislation, the protection is about to expire for around 50,000,000 people. Ooops.
Morning, Christy!
Morning, all!
FWIW, I’m told that both Pelosi and Conyers have been advocating against retroactive immunity and for more safeguards on warrants within the Dem caucus meetings. By several sources, actually.
What we get to hear about publicly and what is being discussed within the caucus are often very different things — because within the caucus there can be argument, and outside it there has to be a unified leadership front.
It is always worth considering any reporting on this and every other issue with a huge grain of salt. Consider the huge difference between what LHP reported from her firsthand watching of the Clinton speech yesterday — and how the narrative read in subsequent press reports, just as one example. Always question what you read — even here. Always.
egregious @ 23
what do you mean?
Christy- Excuse me for pointing out that I think Verizon is throwing up a smokescreen
While it’s true that Verizon may not “keep data on this “two-generation” community of interest” the same disclosure would suggest that they do keep the records, and provided them, of ANYONE that the NSA asked for.
It wouldn’t take Alexander Graham Bell to realize that the NSA would then take the names of those called by those on their first set of requests and submit THOSE to Verizon for THEIR phone records.
So who needs whatever this data set for a “two-generation community of interest is”. All the NSA needs to do is ask twice, and they would have gotten what they need…without warrants…from the spineless Telcoms.
mui @ 18
i don’t know, but she’s taken to actively lying to us (see FISA clip).
and yesterday, when i called her office to ask them to confirm or deny that conyers and reyes were holding up holt’s better FISA bill in committee at speaker pelosi’s request - they refused to respond. when i told that story to ACLU rep today, he said, “That doesn’t surprise me.”
Paradox @ 22 nails it.
Laws are malleable. Sure they are for law and order, but they choose the laws to honor and if there is not they make on and if there is one which prevents what they need to do, they change it, re interpret it, have it tossed out, or simply pretend it doesn’t exist. And then they scream LAW AND ORDER.
It (the laws and the constitution) means nothing to these people. They have the goal and the means ALWAYS are justified by the ends.
ALWAYS
Christy,
It has been interesting to watch where the WH is putting their PR this week. It has been on FISA. Of course, there have been shrill blogs regarding SCHIP against the Dems but the PR drive from the WH has been regarding FISA. The WH probably loves the effort being put towards SCHIP by the grassroots and hopes for less of a response on FISA.
I hope the netroots can get people rallied on both FISA and SCHIP. Splitting grassroots energy/resources is a tactic.
Together as legislation, they stand for “Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness..”
Elliott @ 26
Iirc the protection only lasts for 5 years.
ACLU petition NO retroactive immunity!
Jena 6 hearing on C-Span 3.
http://www.c-span.org/watch/cs_cspan3_wm.as
p?Cat=TV&Code=CS3
What a justice system where Ari Fleisher, Rove, Libby, Novak and others run free after outing an undercover agent whose job was focused on National Security, and whose outing may take the CIA 10 years to recover from.
Yet young black men are thrown in jail for beating up a white kid (obviously not acceptable) and Mycheal Bell is tried as an adult, held in prison for months, and the white kids who hung the nooses suffered no consequences.
District Attorney Reed Walters and President Bush have something in common they both like to stroke pens. District Attorney Walter Reed told those students “with a stroke of a pen, I can make your lives disappear” President Bush stroked his pen and over ruled the Federal Courts and set the convicted Libby free.
Why does any one wonder why there is such deep dis-respect for our justice system?
The full 13 page pdf of the Verizon response to the House Energy and Commerce Committee’s questions is up at the committee website.
One section I found laughable, after reading that line in the Post that said “Verizon and AT&T said it was not their role to second-guess the legitimacy of emergency government requests”, was this:
So, Verizon *does* apparently second-guess at least some requests for information. Just not the biggest and most outrageous requests.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 25
i think the best evidence is by what people actually do - not what they say.
can you tell me why holt’s bill is held up in committee, while the restore act is being hurried through? because that’s what’s actually happening, and it doesn’t jive with a leadership trying to get us more protections on warrants.
couldn’t holt’s bill even be discussed in committee?
Christy Hardin Smith @ 25
Thank you.
I’m with Christy.
Question. Authority. Always.
mc @ 37
absolutely.
and i don’t like where my questions are leading me.
OT, Frosts, BREAKING: McConnell admits to initiating smear of Frosts and then trying to blame it on the bloggers.
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.c.....l_aide.php
Peterr @ 34
I really did laugh out loud when I read this:
“Verizon and AT&T said it was not their role to second-guess the legitimacy of emergency government requests”
But it isn’t funny. How can there even be any consideration of immunity for the telecoms? Their liability must be colossal.
CHS @ 25:
Self-doubt and self-interrogation are good things…
Didn’t Verizon get a multibillion dollar contract from the Executive Branch/Rove to rebuild the infratructure around the WTC right after 9/11?
Hmmm, no wonder.
cinnamonape @ 27
The second set of requests would, of course, be completely beyond the pale of the limits specifically established by the FISA law. It would consist of a request on a person that wasn’t identified as a terrorist or associate of a terrorist. AND DOMESTIC!
Of course Verizon and these other corrupt facilitators of domestic spying wouldn’t even blink at this…the government asks…they provide!
And what the hell are these “Administrative Subpoenas” and how the hell can these be used in lieu of a search warrant signed by a Magistrate?
I will just keep saying the following;
they are stealing, plain and simple, stealing from us
they are gathering intelectual property that will help them;
1) have informaiton to use against political oponents
2 )have personal information to hold over their oponent’s head
3) gather professional information as far as contacts, supply sources, customers
that is what’s going on here, there is NO other reason they don’t want courts to make sure they are NOT stealing, whiich means they ARE
now, if politicians would PUHLEEZE frame this discussion THOSE terms they would be FAR more succssful
Elliott @ 40
…and their gratitude for release from this colossal liability would be quite gracious. But unless some crooked Dems are negotiating with the Telecoms, most of that money would go to the GOP and GOP PACs, so why even think twice about this, Dems? GOP fundraising is going down. Denying retroactive immunity is a plus for personal freedom, and helps continue the drain on GOP coffers.
selise @ 38
Neither do I. But you’re a trooper.
Elliott @ 40
And the personal legal problems for any in-house counsel might similarly be colossal. I can’t imagine any of these companies going ahead with cooperation without having their top lawyer sign off. Can you say “disbarrment”? Maybe even “aiding and abetting a conspiracy”? Sure you can.
From White House press release on January 1, 2006:
So now we know Chimpy was lying to his teeth.
Good morning from L.A. Back from a business trip to Seattle & w/a bit of time on my hands this a.m. to do some faxing for FISA & S-CHIP. Much thanks for putting together that huge list of Congressional fax #s, CHS.
**donations to FDL & Blue America PAC heading your way about now**
Typical Ham Handed Approach…There doesn’t seem to be a real protocol for what they were doing.
That alone merits closer look at what these companies have been doing for OUR government.
selise — On the Holt bill, I wish I knew. I’ve been having the same problem getting a straight answer from anyone on it. Will let you know if I get anything concrete…
At the Jena 6 hearing Charles Ogletree from Harvard said that “there is a cancer in Jena”. He went onto say that when parents and school administrators refer to the hanging of nooses as a “practical joke” there is something deeply wrong.
The racial injustice that took is taking place in Jena that “cancer” has been malignant in our nation for a long long time.
We know that there are a lot more Mycheal Bells in our prison system out there. While the Ari Fleisher’s, Rove’s, and Libby’s who commit serious crimes against our whole nation run free.
anyone have any idea on how to lobby pelosi, conyers and reyes effectively - and get them to stop supporting basket warrants?
fomui @ 32
Thanks. Hope folks pass this one on
I’m curious about why businesses are not up in arms about this issue. Their communications are fair game too. I would think that a lot of behind the scenes e-mails, etc. could cause a lot of problems.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 51
thank you so much.
i don’t like that they won’t answer my questions… but i’m a nobody. if they won’t answer your questions, then we’re in even bigger trouble.
I find this quote to be quite apropo this morning:
“America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter, and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.”
~Abraham Lincoln
paradox @ 22:
Well-said. Yep: Bush v Gore in 2000 underscored so well that the rule of law was still-born in the Bush administration.
Companies like Verizon are so dependent on government regulation (and govt. contracts) in their business I think it’s a little naive to be shocked to learn when the govt. says “Jump” their response is “How high?”
The focus should remain primarily on the people who made the illegal requests of these companies.
It’s hard for me to grasp the level of criminal activity sanctioned by this administration, and equally as hard for me to understand Congress continuing to put up with it.
BlueStateRedHead @ 39
Me, OT again, but the T is one that has been of concern and can be used in your calls to the Bushdogs.
My line is:
While not a constituent, I am concerned that Congressperson X’s integrity not be besmirched by an association with a Party complicit in slandering a brain-injured boy, by the admission of its leader.
and while on the OT, here is the text of a letter to the public editor of the NYT just sent. It contains links for your use.
public@nytimes.com
Dear Sir,
RE: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10.....ref=slogin and your reporting that “an aide” to Sen. McConnell “expressed relief that his office had not issued a press release criticizing the Frosts.” ABC gave us reason to believe the contrary very soon.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/polit.....r-chi.html
The Times remained silent.
Today McConnell admits it.
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.c.....l_aide.php
Shame on you for lending your authority to this cruel operation. You owe your readers including this lifelong one and journalistic ethics something better, and you owe an apology to the family for giving credence to what amounts to a slander.
Speaking of eroding freedoms, Tom Anderson, another Corrupt Bastard ex-Alaska GOP Legislator is about to head to the slammer for five years:
“He took the money because he wanted the money,” Sedwick said. The judge said he doesn’t think Anderson, 40, will get in trouble again. “But I have a very considerable concern for sending a message to the community that we really can’t tolerate the kind of behavior in which he engaged,” the judge said.
Sedwick said he knew the case was heartbreaking for Anderson’s large crowd of supporters. Most defendants who come before him have no one, the judge said.
Among those who showed up for Anderson: his wife, state Sen. Lesil McGuire, and his father, also Tom Anderson, former director of Alaska State Troopers.
“I have no idea how Mr. Anderson’s apple fell so far from the tree, but it did,” Sedwick said.
BlueStateRedHead @ 60
good one!
holleahock @ 55
I think it might be this:
Of course, we know how that ends:
selise @ 53
Putting up ads in their respective country clubs?
Ed*ard Teller @ 61
Dear E**T.
Congratulations! A good word and thanks you for keeping us informed and caring about it.
Kathleen @ 7
According to the Fox News report, sophisticated spys and bad guys can detect the wiretaps and change up their systems. What is inferred is that the rest of us chickens are being wire tapped without our knowledge or consent.
Privacy rights have been thrown out the window. What about the stock market? What stops sophisticated wiretappers from monitoring data to manipulate stock prices. What about politics? Couldn’t operatives spy on each other’s campaigns? It seems very easy for abuses to occur.
At Jena 6 hearing.
Rep Berman just asked “why the people in Jena think that there is nothing wrong in Jena”
Professor Charles Ogletree said that the young black men are not saints and did something seriously wrong, but the punishment was not proportionate to the crime. He also brought up how the white students were let off.
U.S. attorney David Washington just said “hanging the three nooses was a HATE CRIME”
ET, is it too late to invest in the prison construction business in Alaska? The specs for the construction of the Senator Ted Stevens Memorial Correction Facility keep getting bigger.
Thanks Elliot for the encouragement.
And to continue my obsession, Christy wants an MD lawyer to opine on whether there is cause for a harassment or slander case. Where are you Tiredfed when we need you.
ET,
Popcorn sales up in your neck of the woods. Blue Alaska!
btw, all — just FYI — am going to be taking a break the rest of the week. Mr. ReddHedd is whisking me away for my birthday. But I’ll be trying to keep up with news while I’m gone. Do be kind to the mods, the wonderful folks posting, and each other in my absence, would you? :)
Selise - if you’re still around, I left something for you at the end of late late nite.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 71
Have a Happy Birthday!
and hey, have fun too!
Christy Hardin Smith @ 71
Just worry about keeping up with Mr.ReddHedd, and leave keeping up with the news to us, OK?
Jena 6 hearing
How many students hung the nooses? “2″. One student drove the other two there.
After being asked by a Rep. how things in Jena could settle down and not spiral out of control.
Brian Moran from Naacp said “there is a cry for peace and harmony in Jena, but not a cry for justice”
Peterr @ 68
There is no Federal Pen in Alaska, and probably never will be. Anderson has asked to be sent to the medium security prison in Sheriden, OR. No guarantees from the judge, though. They may need to build a GOP wing somewhere in the lower 48, though.
The special legislative session to re-work the oil tariff laws passed so corruptly two years ago, begins today in Juneau.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 71
I promise. Have fun, you need to get away and enjoy.
While we’re on the subject…
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/27669
Happy Birthday Christy!
And don’t worry, we promise we’ll behave. Have a great trip, you deserve all the best.
twolf1 @ 72
got it, thanks!
Christy Hardin Smith @ 71
Yes but will still question… especially myself.
Happy Birthday Christy! This is my favorite Happy Birthday song by Stevie Wonder for Martin Luther King. You Christy (and many of the other FDLers) are walking in Martins enormous footsteps.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97V8DcbDOOs
Listening to Stevie will lift your soul!
christy - have a great birthday and a great trip. you’ve earned it a thousand times over!
Mods — A comment of mine has not appeared. (I ought to have kept a copy. Drat.) This has happened a few times lately. Anything I should be doing differently?
Christy Hardin Smith @ 71
Happy Birthday CHS,
My 53rd is next week and Mrs. J and the three kids and dog go to restored CCC cabins(1930’s) on the Backbone of Iowa(its first state park) and burn fires, play games, and hike the wonderful fall scenery.
Peace to you and yours.
JLC
Al Sharpton up at Jena 6 hearing. “Jena’s all over the country”
he is ripping it up.
http://www.c-span.org/watch/cs.....p;Code=CS3
mpc @ 17
from Wired:
by Saint Clinton of CALEA.
This is simply outrageious. If there was ever a case for impeachment and this is not it, I’d love to know what it is. For anyone considering voting for Rudi “the Plunger” Giuliani, a victiom of 9/11 Turettes Syndrome, expect more of this if you help put him in office.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 71
Happy Birthday, Christy! Hope Mr. ReddHedd takes you someplace nice. Maybe you should stay offline for a few days…*g*
“To all places that one must go to observe aspirations of the moment”
–Arthur Rimbaud
Al Sharpton many want us to “shut up and accept that a two tier justice system exists”
sporkovat at 86 — This goes way, way back to the Reagan/Bush years and the weirdness of Total Information Awareness. Remember that golden oldie? Cheney resurrected it as a pet project. It’s the program that keeps on springing back to life as a defense black hole…
Peterr @ 34
mui @ 32
Thanks, mui. I signed.