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Is Speaker Pelosi using the Armenian genocide resolution to make it tougher for George W Bush to wage war on Iraq?
There are two reasons why relations with Turkey are critically important right now. First, the Turks appear to be ready to wage war on our Northern Front in Iraq, hoping to engage and disable militant pan-Kurdish separatists they call terrorists -- who the Turks say threaten their country's internal stability. Second, fully seventy percent of equipment used in Iraq -- and thirty percent of the fuel -- passes through our airbase in Incirlik. Not to mention ninety-five percent of the new up-armored IED-resistant vehicles long overdue to our troops.
Based on last week's House Foreign Affairs Committee's passage of the resolution condemning the 1915 slaughter of up to 1,500,000 Armenians, Turkey recalled its ambassador from Washington. It's unclear what steps Turkey will take when the resolution is taken up by the full House, although they've lobbied furiously against it. But it's clear Speaker Pelosi means to defy the President by allowing a full House vote -- this month or next.
If the Turks deny American troops, airplanes, and equipment access to Turkish airspace and withdraw permission to use the airbase, how much harder will warmaking on Iraq become? Is the Armenian genocide resolution an attempt to make an already mistreated strategic ally withdraw necessary support for Iraq warmaking? Just as Jim Webb's troop respite amendment would secondarily limit the number of troops available to fight, will the Turks' hurt feelings make warmaking harder?
And is this the Speaker's intent? Why push forward a non-binding resolution decrying a genocide 92 years ago -- right now? The Turks rightly point out that USAmerica has its own genocide history. Former Secretaries of State and former President Carter point out that they wouldn't vote for this resolution if they were in Congress.
This seems a rather roundabout way to make George W Bush's war more difficult to wage -- but is that the reason it's on the table? I wish Speaker Pelosi would be more candid with the American people about the table she sets. We're already unhappy about her taking impeachment off the table. Why not clarify why she's put Armenian genocide on the table -- right now?
UPDATE: The NYT frames this issue:
Pelosi Says Bush Hasn’t Phoned Her About Turkey and Genocide
as if the Village were really like eighth grade. Surely Speaker Pelosi has a greater principle at stake here than simply a phone call the President's not made to her?
(YouTube of John Lennon "Cold Turkey" NYC, 1972, by vitekmiejnek)
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hey Teddy!
TSF?!!!
Damn laptop!!!
Teddy!!!
g’evening folks teddy, nancy is really starting to piss me off - i don’t even think of ‘grandma pelosi’ no more - she is more like the evil mother in law
The Meddling Mother of the Bride’s report on the first day’s hunt during yesterday’s Opening Day of Wedding Gown Season: bagged it
Hi Teddy….. now back to reading….
Dbacks down three :(
good job Suz…we want pics!
Suzanne @ 5
I think of her more as the doormat kind of mother-in-law at this point. Still, Teddy asks the right questions–including the one about why she can’t just tell us straight what she has in mind.
The bloom is off the rose for me too wrt Pelosi…
The Meddling Mother of the Bride’s report on the first day’s hunt during yesterday’s Opening Day of Wedding Gown Season: bagged it
How many points?
Was it a full curl?
Will you be making deer sausage?
“Not to mention ninety-five percent of the new up-armored IED-resistant vehicles long overdue to our troops.”
I coulda sworn they were shipped up north from Kuwait…!!! Some sheer fuckery is afoot… Don’t piss off the Turks…!!! 8-(
LoudounLib @ 7
when i get them
One wonders why anyone would think that anything short of actually exercising the power of the purse to its fullest extent will cause one scintilla of change in our force posture in Iraq. Bush clearly thinks (based on no evidence of which I am aware) that he is the smartest guy in the room, and He Knows Better.
And some had such high hopes, too.
Perhaps we should be sending Speaker Pelosi buddaha’s (in solidarity with those protesting outside her home)
Hello, all! Exciting news, Suz, about the dress. On Day One of shopping, no less.
And why is Nancy pissing off the turks? Clearly some kind of fuckery is afoot, but what? I thought we were promise an accountable and transparent Congress.
Teddy, what’s the latest on ENDA?
TeddySanFran @ 16
That promise was evidently made to be broken.
Hey ya’ll!
I too wish Pelosi would just tell us where the hell she is going with this. On the other hand, Turkey denying access would put a serious crimp in the “all war, all the time” mindset of this administration.
LoudounLib @ 18
Pelosi might think we already forgot. She might be very, very wrong about that.
Hiya Teddy SF!
Maybe if they have to close the base in Turkey, then we will HAVE to end the war with Iraq. Kinda wimpy way to get there though.
TeddySanFran @ 16
Because it is the wrong thing to do.
my bold
Teddy I am glad you brought this up…. with all the dynamics in the middle east, this resolution was like another whack at the hornets nest
OR my drugged fogged brain just was not connecting the dots
EvilDrPuma @ 8
possibly the straightest line from pt.A to pt.B runs through xyz via the italian riviera, a Rexall store in Des Moines and the Grandma Moses exhibition stolen by an alien spacecraft last seen carting paintings of cows just off Neptune.
CTuttle @ 11
Those up-armored ones are not very good. Things fall off and they don’t turn properly and they can turn over. But it costs more to use tanks and the army doesn’t think tanks are as friendly in a city. So the soldiers get killed more often.
SnarKassandra @ 21
Sports cliche alert!
A W is a W is a W.
They don’t ask how, they only ask how many.
A wimpy winner is still a winner.
SnarKassandra @ 21
That still assumes BushCo is capable of some kind of rational thought, though….
EvilDrPuma @ 27
What’s the saying? Assumes facts not in evidence.
Good Evening Folks,
OT
Friends here know that I’ve been experimenting with a cutting edge cardio-feedback system that I’ve dubbed “Gizmo,” and I’ve promised to keep folks updated on my progress.
I said this was going to be paradigm shifting stuff, and it appears I was right.
Enjoy.
EvilDrPuma @ 27
And judging from past experience, it is a rather large assumption.
Suzanne @ 12
Aloha, Ma Cheri! A sight for sore eyes…!!! 8-)
LoudounLib @ 28
Exactly.
burnspbesq @ 17
HRCampaign is doing a big kabuki dance on the vanity bill — the exclusive bill — they want passed.
HRCampaign is taking lots of credit for all their lobbying but won’t join the 280 national and state organization who say they don’t want an LGB-only bill passed. Essentially, it’s come down to scorecard politics: the pols want to know if they’ll get a bad mark from HRC if they vote for the T-excluding bill, and HRC sez they won’t “oppose” the T-excluding bill.
It looks like Pelosi will “allow” an inclusive bill to come to a vote when “support exists for it.” Please call your congresscritter and ask them to support only HR 2015, the fully T-inclusive ENDA
CTuttle @ 31
Is it like the one you showed us a few weeks ago?
Based on last week’s House Foreign Affairs Committee’s passage of the resolution condemning the 1915 slaughter of up to 1,500,000 Armenians, Turkey recalled its ambassador from Washington.
Turkey recalls its ambassador over a non binding proclamation from the US? Seems extreme. Baretta always said “don’t do the crime if you can’t do the time”.
Hiya Suzanne!
Did you read my post yet?????
//end of blog whore
SnarKassandra @ 21
Dang, Missie, I saw ya on Dean’s thread, by the way, he’ll respond to ya, and, then *poof*…!!!
TeddySanFran @ 33
Fuckery! Fuckery most heinous and cowardly.
madmommy @ 19
If she would say that was her intent, I think lots of people would rally round. If this is a way to scale down the BushCheney Regime’s warmaking, then YES. But she won’t say that. She says:
Which makes her sound petty, no?
CTuttle @ 37
I only went there cause PB told me it was still going, but like three threads later.
hackworth @ 35
Maybe Turkey is looking for a backdoor out in regards to the US using their country as a staging ground. They now know they are dealing with a loon, and perhaps think this would provide cover???
Is the president supposed to call her?
Teddy why is there an assumption that Pelosi “allowed” this resolution? Could it be the Speaker is so weak in the minds of her colleagues Dems like Adam Schiff just toss the the resolution out there because….. they feel like doing it?
madmommy @ 34
completely different - think of that white dress that marilyn monroe wore while standing on that air grate.. the grecian style bodice - all done in a lovely crinkle lightweight taffeta embellished with a smattering of crystals, very gentle sprinkled down the long skirt and a row of covered buttons all down the back to the hem to the train.
SnarKassandra @ 36
Written as only someone who lives with a boy that age could! I’m so not looking forward to the stinky phase with the kiddos.
SnarKassandra @ 36
jeez, louise, girl, let me catch my breath. i spent today recovering from yesterday (laughing) i’ll take a look before i got to bed tonight (and that is your one blogwhore of the day, right?)
Suzanne @ 44
Oooh, sounds pretty! I never did the big dress thing for any of my weddings.
SnarKassandra @ 40
No worries he’ll get to it, it’s his B-Day too…!!! He cut out early to deliver a speech, then returned… I believe the thread will be open for a few days, Right Suz…??? *g*
Suzanne @ 44
Sigh…sounds dreamy!
Suzanne @ 46
Yes ma’am. The one and only!
TeddySanFran @ 33
Alas, that would be an utterly meaningless gesture on my part. Calling my guy (Royce, CA-40) a Neanderthal doesn’t even begin to capture the full flavor of it. He’d carpet-bomb Laguna Beach if he thought he could get away with it. I called about SCHIP, and the staffer who took my call was barely civil about it.
Madmommy how many weddings have you had?
hackworth @ 35
Over a committee vote on a non-binding resolution, actually. When France passed a genocide resolution last year, Turkey cut off all military relations.
Given their propensity to make war on Iraq in Kurdistan, and the announced plans of the PKK terrorists to come over the Turkish border and assassinate Turkish leaders, it seems an odd time to piss off the Turks. 87% of Turks say they want to end relations with the US — including all war aid — if the resolution passes.
The oddest thing, though, is that it wasn’t this Turkish government that committed the genocide — it was the government overthrown by the current government. So why not go along with the genocide claims, condemn your old-time predecessors, and apologize?
Suzanne @ 44
English, please…
SnarKassandra @ 52
3, but the first 2 don’t count. Number one was an escape, number 2 was a loser. Both together lasted less than a year and a half. I am the poster child for family values!
SnarKassandra @ 52
ahem… what? Are you writing a book?
Some questions you just don’t ask.
IMHO.
Hey Snarkie and the rest of you all.
Hey You @ 43
Schiff is behind this? Now it makes sense. His district is bright purple and full of Armenians.
newtonusr @ 54
The men don’t know, but the girls understand ;-)
demi @ 56
I was responding to this:
hey demi, how was the camping?
I can’t for the life of me figure why Pelosi would be bringing up the Armenian genocide issue now. If this is a way of putting pressure on Bush to get out of Iraq by indirect means, it’s a little too indirect for me.
I’m going to guess somebody is calling in favors, but who and why now doesn’t make sense.
In any case, it doesn’t matter. Pelosi seems to be operating according to the rules of the closed universe of the Beltway, where the words of pundits and consultants far outweigh the forces of logic and reason or the American people. Anyday now I expect her to tell that nasty, intemperate progressive base “Who cares what you think?”
it’s called politics. if Pelosi told us the plan before, the White House would (rightly so) call it a political stunt, call in the turkish ambassador, talk about it, deride it, laugh about it and done. sometimes you got to create facts without giving the others enough time to counter them up front …
and all these allegations about the WH not talking to her being petty doesn’t make them less true … see, good politicians work with truth and timing ^^
burns, that guy works for you and you have every right to call him and inform him of same and demand that he listen to what you, as his boss, have to say.
these forking bastoids get away with it based on ‘their base’ and dems don’t call because it doesn’t do any good. well, not calling tells the bastoids to keep the status quo and given them cover - since no one calls to complain.
SnarKassandra @ 59
Yes. I picked up on that. Still.
demi @ 56
No big whoop to me. If someone can take a lesson from my youthful stupidity then it’s all to the good ;0)
newtonusr @ 54
expensive
Spiritcatcher @ 62
So she’s going to let the Turks take credit/blame for ending our occupation of Iraq?
SnarKassandra @ 21
politics:the art of the possible
Loudinlib,
Well, it was faboo.
The steak was terrific.
The fire was bright and wonderful.
All was great and I was sleeping so peacefully, until at about 3 am, I woke up because I was wet!
It was a perfectly clear sky when we went to bed, so we didn’t put the rain cap on the tent.
Big whoops.
madmommy @ 55
There’s a wacky WAC shootout on ESPN, 2OT (58-51)
TeddySanFran @ 53
Prolly ’cause them Turks, like most humans, jes don’t like bein’ told what to do. Especially about something as touchy as genocide.
Imagine how Mr. Cyst, Hannity and CoulterGeist would react if the French demanded that we admit that our GWOT in The MeatGrinder was really a genocidal attack on the Iraqi people?
Despite the fact that an argument could be made for that position it would create a firestorm of hate here in ‘The Shining City on the Hill’ GW version.
Good evening dear friends.
The oddest thing, though, is that it wasn’t this Turkish government that committed the genocide — it was the government overthrown by the current government. So why not go along with the genocide claims, condemn your old-time predecessors, and apologize?
Partly it is understanding the region, the Turks have always denied the genocide and admitting now they would loose face. History has deep roots and weird dynamics.
Greece has not been occupied by Turks for over a hundred years but the worst insult is to say “your father was a Turk” or reference Turkish ancestry
CTuttle @ 70
But, more importantly, SAINTS WIN! In Seattle no less. Not one pre-game show today gave them a snowball’s chance. Excuse me while I Snoopy dance!!!
Madmommy,
Sorry for polking my nose into your thing.
Shouldn’t have.
Sometimes my sense of propriety gets the better of me.
But….Snap on the Big Whoops.
Correction, 3OT 58-58 Nevada-Boise St…!!!
Might have to get up early for this WaPo chatz tomorrow:
Mike Gravel at 10am eastern
1) TSF, yer in The City (he says with SUCH reverence) so you should know better n I do.
Don’t PELOSI have a HUGE constituency of Armenian’s in SF, and one or two more parts of NorCal/SoCal?
That alone ’splain’s her seemingly BOFFO move, and a violation of Rule #1 In The ME-Don’t PO Turks.
2) I’m with whoever above that suggests most of our supplies are coming from the SOUTH of Iraq, thru Jordan and Kuwait and the ports on The Gulf.
AIR ROUTES for USAF flights of any sort DO require Turk approval, and certainly Incirlik has supported a NUMBER of ops in its history, but Wiki says, it’s mostly for LEAVING Iraq, not entering . . . as of late . . . at least that’s what I got outta the Wiki . .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incirlik_Air_Base
So I’m quite doubtful that Mz. Nancy has any plan, other than pressure from a big ass Armenian lobby, to hold fire to The Turks feet.
To do so don’t shut down BoyKing, it only further obfuscates and engenders an embroiglio which could EASILY lead to the kind of turmoil that unleashed WW1.
The Kurds are NOT alone . . . we are NOT their only ally. They are signing oil agreements with many folks . . .
For Pelosi or Congress to USE the Armenian Genocide issue AGAINST the BoyKing, while risking PISSING OFF THE TURKS, risks starting a new world war . . . I hope to god they ain’t that stupid, Pelosi and Congress, and I hope to bhudda they don’t MEAN to use religious and cultural diffrences to launch unmitigated violance in the ME, cuz they think WE THE USA can pick up the pieces and profit, and dominate, after the violence.
See, there’s this China, and Russia, with their OWN needs in the ME. To piss off the Turks, and have them LAUNCH at the Kurds en masse, will piss off a LOT of people.
Pure clusterphuckabia, start to finish, the kind of phuckobia NO ONE can control.
Does Pelosi WANT to piss off Turks, Chinese and Russian forces? Or is she nutz?
THAT’s the part I can’t get a handle on, all I know is, Pelosi is fuckin nutz for ANY of this.
But so is the BoyKing . . . and so far, I’ve not seen ANY ample evidence, they ain’t workin for the same corporate interests to line their pockets.
SO, I distrust them all.
As Always, Joke Them If They Can’t Take A ___K.
Congrats on the win madmom.
TeddySanFran @ 53
Are they looking for an excuse to break ranks with the US? The US smashes the shop window, Turkey runs in and grabs the teevee sets.
Turkey has been eyeballing Northern Iraqistan like a fat kid eyeballs cake. There’s oil in them thar marshes.
demi @ 75
No worries demi! It’s such ancient history to me, like a completely different person. I believe everyone has to go through stuff to get to where they need to be, and I am where I need to be.
Suzanne @ 63
I understand what you’re saying, Suz, but there is one statistic that IMO invalidates your position.
Sixty-seven percent.
The guy is invulnerable. And he sincerely believes that we are doing God’s work in Iraq.
Normally, all of my money and all of my effort gets exported to where it might do some good. I made an exception for SCHIP because every vote counts and because it’s an issue that actually impacts voters in this district, so I thought he might pay attention.
Thanks Betsy, how are ya?
My congressman says Graeme Frost lives in a 3,000 square foot house, does anyone in the world believe you can live in 3,000 square foot house and pay Maryland income tax and Baltimore Property Tax on $45,000 a year? My congressman (R) wrote in the newspaper today.
TexBetsy @ 72
Hi, Betsy.
madmommy @ 82
Doing well, thanks. Had a good day. Go look at my flickr. You?
Hello To The Good People of the Lake! I usually lurk and read here - always, always a good investment of my time. I just have a few minutes now and am so disappointed by our current congressional leadership that I just have to take a break from focusing on what those people are doing, at least for tonight. So, how’s about a dancing cockatoo, grooving to the Back Street Boys? This is short and too cute, and the website is worth knowing about. http://birdloversonly.blogspot.....dance.html
Wishing you all a pleasant evening.
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 24
I kinda like the way your mind works. Or flows. ;)
Hackworth, exactly, and the Kurds’ native capital, Kirkuk, sits atop a prolific field…!!!
Turkey has 60,000 troops on the Kurdish border, and they started shelling the Kurds last nite:
Until we see some evidence that Pelosi is freelancing her own foreign policy, might we do well to limit that kind of speculation? I don’t remember being too happy to hear the Malkins and Goldbergs of the world go on about her Syria trip (which, if you recall, included passing along messages from State.)
Sandman @ 83
I’d say your Congressman is a moron who needs to hire a fact-checker. I would imagine that’s easily verifiable from the Bawlmer City property tax rolls, which are a public record.