They are the people who never seem to break free of poverty. Neither do their children, nor their grandchildren and their parents were poverty struck as well. They are born to poverty, and it seems like it is their heritage, one they can never shed; a curse unto seven generations.
The problem of the underclass is an old one. Victorian England dealt with it, and so, for that matter, did both Republican and Imperial Rome. It is a death spiral which seems impossible to escape.
Today it is with us as well and the old debates play out as they always have. The poor, it is said, deserve it. If only they had more discipline, if only they didn’t marry young, or do drugs, or have so many children, or have children out of wedlock. If only they stayed in school and got a better education. If only they did things the way the middle and upper classes did, if only, well, they wouldn’t be poor.
Liberals respond that if only, if only, the government were to provide education and daycare and other government care for these people, if only, then they’d be able to get themselves out of this mess.
Today we’re going to run through what makes you poor and keeps you poor.
The Parents Argument and the Education Argument
The best predictor for success in America is still (barely) education. The best predictor for education is… your parents education. Location is what matters here. If you live in an upscale neighbourhood then you have good housing values. They pay for more money for schools, those schools perform better on aggregate (there are exceptions, they are statistical anomalies). So if your parents can afford to live in a wealthier ‘hood you’re probably going to get a better education.
Real love of learning starts in the home. Children whose parents read, read. Children whose parents don’t read, don’t read. Children who get proper nutrition perform significantly better in school. Children whose family situation is stable and non-threatening perform better in school. While none of these things require that you live in a rich or even middle class home all of them do correlate non-trivially with money. You can be rich and miserable. But you’re more likely to poor and miserable. This connection does decrease as the income scale increases, but it does not decrease until after the poverty threshold has long been passed.
Families with a good income are also less likely to require that children stop going to school to support the family.
The Modeling and the “Right Crowd” Argument
A fairly convincing argument has been made that what effects children’s attitudes the most is their friends – the crowd they run with. Run with a group which values education and achievement and safe sex and you’ll tend to value those things as well (it shouldn’t be hard for anyone to understand that people want the approval of the people they spend their time with and that the best way to get that approval is to take on the same attitudes.) What’s the most important predictor of who your friends are? Where your parents live.
Acting like your peers is just a watered down example of “modeling”. Simply put the very best, simplest and surest way to succeed at something is to find someone who has succeeded at what you want to do and to model yourself after them. To do what they do. Act like they do. If they’ll cooperate, to work with them and watch how they work. Even better, find a few people who are successful in your field and learn from each one of them.
It shouldn’t come as a surprise that in most modern downscale neighbourhoods there aren’t a lot of successful models available. And the most visible models may well be people you may not want others modeling – drug dealers, gang leaders and other criminals. This used to be less of a problem. In the standard American immigration wave, while some immigrants who got successful would leave the Irish/Jewish/Italian ghetto, most stayed. They pulled other people up with them. In modern ghettos people get successful – and most of them then move to middle class suburbs. The people who make it pull out rather than pulling up.
The Credit Argument
Simply put, true success in America comes mainly in two ways – credentialization leading to professional work, or creating your own business. To create your own business you need money. You’re going to have to borrow it. There are three main places you can get money from – banks, family/friends and crime; successful minority groups have used all three (yes even Jewish immigrants had crime syndicates, and the Irish ran organized crime before the Italians. Since the Italian fall other immigrant groups have taken over the lucrative industry.) Banks don’t usually work – there’s an old joke, that is effectively true, that banks only lend you money if you don’t need it. Unless it’s a credit card. But for all intents and purposes underclass citizens have trouble even getting a checking account and a credit card let alone a business loan. Forget it.
The second option is family and friends. You can see this dynamic really work, when it works. Watch an immigrant community like the Sikhs or many Chinese and you’ll see a dynamo which works much as follows. The first person gets in, usually the most educated young adult. He or she works like a dog and lives with other immigrants in horrific circumstances. Any money earned is saved or used to bring in more family members. They all work like dogs. Eventually a fair number are in and they have enough money to buy a small business. They do so. A few of them work their butts off in that job while the others bring in money from outside jobs. They all move in together, with everyone living in one house on the cheap. They save up enough to buy another business. Eventually they sell the businesses they have built up and move onto more profitable ones. Eventually they are at least affluent, and for the most successful ones, actually wealthy. And they’ve earned every little bit of it.
But they were successful not because of their individual efforts, or even those of the nuclear family (a dysfunctional stub when it comes to really dealing effectively with economic duties), but because they had a functional extended family. A person alone generally can’t do this. Neither can a couple. It takes a family – a big one.
The other way this works is very simple. Most entrepreneurs get some or all of their money from friends and family. If you’ve got a well off family, you’ve got a source of credit. If you don’t, you’re SOL. This has especially hit the modern black community very hard because of the breakdown of extended families and because successful blacks leave their communities. You can’t hit somebody up for a loan if you don’t know them.
Then there’s organized crime. For organized crime to be effective at raising a community up it has to have deep ties into that community. You need leaders and members who are family men. You need stability. You need the sort of syndicates who want peace, because peace is good for business and who want some respectability. For reasons too extensive to go into in this article, that model of organized crime has faded from the American scene. Frankly, it’s missed. Some types of crime organization /are/ better than others. Crime will always be with you, but the type and the amount are a choice government and society makes. America has chosen a very anomic disassociated violent form of organized crime.
Then there’s the elephant in the room….
Racism
Yes, it does make a difference. Especially in American (and Japan, but a full discussion of Japanese Koreans and Ainu will have to wait another opportunity.) If a white has the exact same resume as someone with a “black” name they will get more than twice as many calls for interviews. The argument that racism does not effect job prospects has been disproven far, far beyond any reasonable doubt.
But the black “problem” is far larger than simple racism. It has to do with disproportionate incarceration rates, with black men committing the exact same crimes as whites getting stronger longer sentences and with the effect that has had on black families. It has to do with the disparate way drug crimes are treated between blacks and whites (how often to executives go to jail for coke use, for example?)
It has to do with labeling. Simply put, once you’re in the justice system, you are branded ever after with the mark of Cain. Ever get yourself convicted of any crime and you will probably never, ever, have a decent job.
And black youths are much more likely to be charged and convicted for the exact same crime as white youths.
At that point their prospects in the legal system are effectively gone. The choice to migrate to illegal activity is their only chance. It probably won’t work – but at least their aren’t background checks. At least they stand a chance. And if they’re the moral type who wouldn’t walk that path, well, they can’t walk any other path. They can’t get education loans, they can’t get decent jobs – they’re down and out. In America you only get one chance.
And this trend is continuing. Many companies, for example, are using credit ratings to determine if they should hire you. If you have trouble even getting a checking account, you aren’t going to have a good credit rating (if you’ve never had credit, you have a bad rating because they figure those who aren’t used to managing credit aren’t good at it.)
Things like background checks and credit checks are wonderful from a corporate point of view. They keep out the wrong sorts of people (blacks who have become middle class and assimilated middle class culture are not such a problem) and they appear race neutral.
But in a society which isn’t race neutral they have effects that simulate the effect of bias very effectively, without ever requiring anyone to actually tell the undesirables that you don’t hire nigger/spics/wetbacks/slants/micks or whatever.
I once explained the underclass to someone with the following metaphor: you have a hundred people. If they can bench press a hundred pounds they can leave the room. If they fail their kids will have to take the same test. Some of those people, of certain races, have someone pushing down on the bars. As a result, as a percentage, more of them fail. Next generation more of their kids are in the room. A larger percentage of them fail.
Over time the room begins to have more of that race than the simple ability to lift a hundred pounds would predict.
That’s the effect of race on class. There are strategies that can overcome it, but it is an obstacle and sometimes the strategies don’t work (a discussion of the life cycles of immigrant minorities may be forthcoming at a later date.)
Concluding Remarks
If you don’t break out of the underclass in the first generation your family falls into it, the odds shift dramatically against your children. They have worse schools, less access to credit, few good people to model themselves after and face a society in which apparently impartial mechanisms produce results that tend, over time, and in aggregate to keep them in their place.
In a game where the dice are weighted against you, which is the only game in town, what do you do?
Do you roll the dice?
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Very good article. A few typos:
“The argument that racism does not effect job prospects”
AFFECT, not effect, here. Also in same paragraph, a little earlier, I think you meant America or United States, not “American.”
Kudos for a thoughtful, well written article…
Ha! Would probably have had the zed had I not taken the editorial route :-P :-) Congrats Dakine ;-)
Another consideration is that the sort of economy we have pretty much mandates an underclass that will take the cheap jobs everyone is scrambling to get away from. Plus if you have hyperrich, you will have poverty.
Still musing…
It’s been a while since I was a student in a public school..Seems to me that we valued sports. We would have loved to have some sex, safe or otherwise…”academics” was a bore. Somehow we made it through OK…
I’ve read that the Japanese take their version of high school VERY seriously- and then screw off in college. Americans do it the other way around. Makes more sense to me.
Ian, I wish I could say something more profound than wow! thanks! You lay it out so clearly why we must invest in the future.
I read the other day that 60% of stocks are owned by one percent of the people. Is this roughly the case?
I look at the move to school vouchers and even home schooling as right-flight.
In my hometown, the turn for the worse occurred when our light industrial jobs left town. Before then, if you wanted to labor, there were plenty of union jobs paying the equivalent of $20-$40/hr in the current economy.
With unions doing so poorly, and with the influx of so many undocumented workers, no matter how hard an unskilled worker sweats, he or she still can’t support a family…
And what do we say about those who borrow money strictly to invest that money to make more money? Some argue these folks are not producers. And many say there are two kinds of people. Those that produce and those that don’t.
Some make the appeal that a serious redistribution of wealth is part of the antidote to poverty.
Stop the wars, increase taxes and put the savings into education, health care, environmental safeguards and infrastructure.
I think education is the biggest problem, and I think there is at least two thing you missed. First, the rich have good reasons to short change the entire education process. They are the ones who benefit from a malleable and barely competent workforce. They don’t want their precious spawn to have to compete with the smart kids in the underclass, they want pliant workers, especially because they have been trying to ship all the brain jobs overseas to cheaper workers. They use religion to keep women down, and to keep the workers from paying attention. They offer circuses instead of guidance.
Second, the parents are unwilling to let their children go.
But, now I have to go sing Samson et Dalilah, so I don’t have time to finish this thought.
And what of the “work ethic”? Is that as strong as ever?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 11
A New Deal needs to be hammered out…!!! 8-)
Elliott @ 8
Well, yeah. The move, especially in the south, to all the private/”Christian” schools and home schooling was to “escape” from integration and being forced to deal with realities. Now the vouchers are to pay for this move with taxpayers.
Once again attempting to destroy public education.
Excellent article. Something else to be considered is money management. If you are taught to save up and then buy things, rather than buying on credit, you will be more financially stable.
And if you are taught the differences between things you want and things you need, you will also be more financially stable.
This is a brilliant post and a topic which is at the heart of a just society.
Without equality of opportunity, we will grow the underclass until we have lords and vassals.
We’re close to that now.
One meme that the poor hang on to is becoming a rock star, a sports star, the only way to shoot out of the ghetto. And they do this because of the rags to riches BS which is always pushed. If you really want something hard enough, you can achieve it? Oh really?
I heard a speech on the local public radio station a few years ago, but I can’t remember who the speaker was. He talked about all these studies on predictors for success, and it came down to family income. If poor kids were moved into a well funded school, they did somewhat better in the short run.
He basically agreed with you, Ian. If the family was poor it was extremely difficult for the children to succeed.
The problem with breaking free of poverty today is that the playing field is not nearly as level as it once was. And that can be blamed on politicians.
dakine01 @ 16
I’ve always liked the more and better education argument myself.
On topic
House of the Rising Sun
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRV9QCXLtHQ
And just how does a middle-middle class family, let alone a lower middle class family, not to mention a lower class family afford to send their children to college?
The credit poison pill that we have swallowed is really what the big boys do… debt financing their businesses.
No biz or bizman has the cash to grow or stand up a biz. They borrow. This concept has been ported over to personal wealth, so people believe that they can get now and pay later. The problem is that debt financing a biz is to produce revenue and personal credit is simply a scheme for banks to make interest and fees, from people who they could make interest and fees from. Instead of savings where interest is paid, they sell us debt where they can earn interest.
Banks are evil!
My family was poor. Between the emphasis on education and the money management lessons, all the kids are upper middle class. But the link between education and a well-paying job is weakening. I don’t know if we would have been as successful today.
Sean Hannity never went to college I believe.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 24
Getting to the point where they can’t. Working poor and lower middle class almost never get their degree — but the upper class does. This has become much worse over the last couple decades.
Elliott @ 8
It strikes me as part of the cult aspect of the right. They get their followers to isolate themselves culturally, informationally (no network news for them), and educationally. This can be dangerous for the kids if they are never taught what life is like for most of America.
I don’t care for the notion of class, we need a classless society not a larger middle class.
America is a country which believes in competition. In competition, someone wins and someone(s) lose. You can’t have winners without losers.
The entire mindset creates class and poverty.
You can’t have wealth creation unless there is value added. That is where you extract wealth from the labor of others. This is a one way and self fulfilling feed forward loop and why the more successful the capitalist class is the more poverty there will be.
The rich are doing very well in this economy. Very well. Everyone else is downsliding or treading water. The wealth is being sucked upwards.
Please forgive the rudeness of this OT but KENTUCKY BEATS LSU IN 3 OVERTIMES 43-37!
Oklahoma kiddo @ 24
The only hope many families have is scholarships, either academic or sports. Financial aid is getting harder and harder to come by.
The thing an in-law always mentioned was the GI Bill after WW2. That created a huge group of people who actually got enough benefits to live and go to school.
Wow, UK beat LSU 43-37(3OT)!!!
The upper class would do well to spread some serious wealth around, lest the natives WILL grow restless and there will be trouble.
The wrong approach is to grow the national security state, gated communities and so forth.
What you see in the very poor communities in the ME is complete desperation and that leads to radicalism and violence. When there is no chance of escaping misery before dying, why not strike a blow against the preceived oppressors.
Millions of people in the USA live on less than $7 per day. Ha?
dakine01 @ 31
INCREDIBLE!!
great game, great game!
Margot @ 33
Absolutely. Thousands of people went to college who never would have thanks to the GI Bill.
Here’s the anecdote that scares me the most. A few years back Toyota was deciding between putting a factory in southern Ontario and a southern state (don’t recall which one.) They decided on Ontario, becuase they didn’t want to train employees using picture books, which is what they had to do in their last southern plan. Now when you consider those are good jobs they would have picked the top 5% or 10% for, you can’t tell me that the majority of the working class and middle class in that area aren’t functionally illiterate.
How you get through 12 years and wind up functionally illiterate is beyond me, but it’s clearly more widespread than official stats paint.
Mr. Welsh, I read today that the top 1% has increased their share of national income from 18% to 20%. Do you think that is significant, or just normal fluctuation?
The measures proposed by FDR were essentially socialism. The right considers him and his policies those of the enemy. The GI bill and the WPA and all the measures to give people work and opportunity are considered coddling the lazy by the right.
The post is correct in framing the issues and the perception of poverty. They blame the poor for being poor and make it impossible for them to do anything about it.
TheOtherWA @ 32
A lot of the professors I had in college used the G.I.Bill for their education. They are mostly retired at this point.
Ian Welsh @ 38
Well, they’ve gotten past that idea as they have factories in Georgetown, KY (outside Lexington) and here in San Antonio, TX.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 24
My friend who graduated law school and passed the bar works at the Post Office, so you know can tell how it will work out.
Ian Welsh @ 38
IIRC, Oh Canada has 13 yrs of Public Education, Eh, Ian??? ;-)
Sandman @ 39
Part of the long term trend. There may be some retrenchment when the property bubble pops, as there was around 2001/2 - but the trend, from the late 70’s, has been a long term increase. All the factors are still in place, so it should continue.
Sandman @ 39
IIRC the last time it was like that was early 1920’s. If it is normal fluctuation, it is a hell of a long cycle length.
dakine01 @ 42
When did they make the commitment to open them?
CTuttle @ 44
Most provinces don’t, and I think Ontario has stopped as well.
Bush is functionally illiterate.
All the trends are accelerating. Rich getting richer faster and poor becoming poorer faster. Poverty is spreading, not wealth.
The tax policies are not doing what they should be… redistributing wealth to some extent by creating opportunity for all.
We will see an economic collpase and only then maybe can we stand up a more just system.
Our entire economy went from agrarian to industrial to service to financial service. This means that all we do is money lending. We destroyed our sustainable economy and so we ensured our demise.
Ian Welsh @ 47
Checking the web sites, It looks like (and this fits my memories) the Georgetown plant opened around 1987 and it looks like the San Antonio plant started around 2003.
dakine01 @ 50
Yeah, the decision on ONtario was made, iirc 2004/5 - they learned from their experience in those plants.
Ian Welsh @ 48
When I started out in Alta, it was 13 yrs, yet, that was quite a few years ago…!!! ;-)
Hiya Ian. Hi y’all.
We are low income but we are not lower class. We live in the part of town with the best schools ON PURPOSE so me and my cousin can get scholarships to college. We would rather live in a small apt than have all our own rooms but be where the schools are not good.
My mom finished college and Aunt Betsy did also, and she has a masters. My brother did HS and then military training and specialist training for helicopters and deisel trucks. We won’t be low income forever.
Mr. Welsh do you favor a law to cap CEO’s salaries are some level. The growth is astounding, from 40x a normal worker to 400x in only about 40 years.
why is my comment in mod?
Ian Welsh @ 38
I remember that. There were two problems with building that plant in America. The educational level of the local residents and health care costs. Choosing Canada solved both problems.
Ian Welsh @ 51
Well, that may be, but they’ve also expanded the plants in both locations in the last couple of years.
snarKassandra @ 55
Freed Cassie. Hard refresh. please.
Ian, would you consider dyslexia a defect or is it a difference — one that is currently an adaptive disadvantage?
considering that humans developed writing only several thousand years ago
Aunt Betsy says the only way to fix education is “parents as teachers” classes when kids are still in pre school.
Sandman @ 53
Not necessary if you raise the Capital Gains Tax! Coupled with raising the SSA Income ceiling to 250K would divert the wealth flow in the proper direction…!!!
I am sorry Mr Welsh. I should not be saying IAN.
CTuttle @ 61
But they could just ask for a larger salary, the Board of Directors is very friendly to most of them.
I wonder how much things have changed? I grew up white trailer trash. Mom’s first three kids were all born out of wedlock in the 1950s/60s and each has a different father. She is not a reader and hated school as a kid.
Somehow, at a very early age, I saw education as my way out and studied hard from at least the 4th grade. I often say I got my education despite the public schools at the time. Though from what I read and hear about public schools today, I practically went to the MIT of public schools.
I got out but my brothers did not. I did what I could at the time to tell them, “Screw softball/football/basketball, do your homework.” I didn’t get my message through and today they remain in dead end manual labour jobs.
I’ve tried to provide an example and incentives to my nieces and nephews. I think I have reached two of them despite their step mother (white trailer trash, all four of her children have different fathers, her motto remains “school is stupid, work hard and you’ll do ok in life”).
I love school, except when it gets boring. I love to learn and I want to make a good life and have a career and do good things in the world and I think going to college will be the best thing for me after HS. Starting next year I will have AP exams so I can get college credits in HS.
From WSJ: Income-Inequality Gap Widens The wealthiest 1% of Americans earned 21.2% of all income in 2005….The bottom 50% earned 12.8% of all income, down from 13.4% in 2004…
http://online.wsj.com/article/.....ts_news_us
Maybe the greedy pigs in the top 1% have insatiable appetites. Who else will clean their houses, watch the children, wash their cars, and fight rich men’s wars?
If I had to decide between subsidizing the garbage weekly pickup or the govenor’s salary, garbage pickup wins hands down. Those guys directly affect the health and cleanliness of my community. The govenor is just another politician with his hands in my pocket.
I have a question. People say that I have a good chance to get a scholarship because I am smart and non=white. But if I leave Texas, will the color of my skin make it harder to get a job? Or harder to move up after I get a job?
Sandman @ 54
Yup.
A lot of folks here at FDL are familiar with Bob Somerby and his devastating critiques of the MSM which he posts at The Daily Howler. Some of you might not know that he was a grade school teacher in inner-city Baltimore for a while. Somerby writes quite a bit on the subject of No Child Left Behind and the issues surrounding the education of children from low-income households.
There’s a whole lot at The Daily Howler about how more money, higher standards and better teachers might not provide much in the way of improved results when it comes to teaching low-income kids. Let me offer up passages from two Somerby posts (yes, these are inappropriately long for this forum but I’m posting them anyway because they are quite important):
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Why do low-income kids do so poorly in school? Tough supplies a bit of history. “There had, in fact, been evidence for a long time that poor children fell behind rich and middle-class children early, and stayed behind,” he writes. “But researchers had been unable to isolate the reasons for the divergence.” After listing a string of possible answers, Tough turns to Hart and Risley’s 1995 research. People who care about low-income schooling need to consider this matter well. For that reason, we quote at some length:
Ouch! By age 3—long before formal schooling began—this vocabulary gap was large, as was the gap in those IQ scores. And, as we have noted above, Hart and Risley concluded that “the size of each child’s vocabulary correlated most closely to one simple factor: the number of words the parents spoke to the child.” Of course, we could easily imagine remedial efforts which would erase a vocabulary gap. But the difference in early upbringing goes beyond that, Tough says. Hart and Risley found that professional parents spoke to their children much more often. “What’s more, the kinds of words and statements that children heard varied by class,” Tough writes. Again, we quote at some length:
Advantage, the children of professional parents! “In the years since Hart and Risley published their findings, social scientists have examined other elements of the parent-child relationship,” Tough writes, and “their conclusions all point to big class differences in children’s intellectual growth.” One more large chunk of Tough talk:
Arrgh! “Taken together, the conclusions of these researchers can be a little unsettling,” Tough writes. Their work “suggests that the disadvantages that poverty imposes on children aren’t primarily about material goods.” Rather, “the real advantages that middle-class children gain come from more elusive processes: the language that their parents use, the attitudes toward life that they convey. However you measure child-rearing, middle-class parents tend to do it differently than poor parents—and the path they follow in turn tends to give their children an array of advantages.”
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Obvious point—Bob Herbert’s heart is in the right place when it comes to American education (see THE DAILY HOWLER, 8/29/05). But sadly, that just isn’t enough—and it hasn’t been enough for the past thirty-five years. During that time, well-meaning liberals have mouthed bland cant about the problems of urban schools—and little real progress has been made in fighting the problems which Herbert describes. How bad are the actual problems? In Monday’s column in the New York Times, Herbert discussed the latest new study of American schools, this one commissioned by two liberal think tanks. Just try—just try—to comprehend the gravity of the situation described here:
Try to grasp the meaning of that highlighted sentence! After attending school for three years, low-income students are “about three grade levels behind” non-poor students! Say it again, and let it sink in: After three years, they’re three years behind!! But Herbert shows no sign of grasping the enormity (or the absurdity) of the situation described here. Nor do the business-as-usual bafflegabs who authored this latest new study, bafflegabs who complain at one point that American kids attend school 180 days per year while the international average is 193. After three years in school, low-income kids are three years behind—and those thirteen days seem the culprit? But so it has gone for thirty-give years as detached, inept but credentialed elites tut-tut about schools they have never set foot in, offering worthless “recommendations”—recommendations which often stand out for their lack of scale or their grinding illogic.
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Again, Somerby has a lot to say on the subject of teaching low-income inner-city kids. You can find more of his thoughts on the subject by poking around his site with the search engine there.
Ian Welsh @ 68
I should clarify, it’s not the best solution. Ideally you just have very high marginal tax rates with no loopholes.
OT: President Bush may think it’s a done deal, and First Lady Laura may be measuring for drapes. An architect has been chosen, and the project is proceeding to raise $500 million. And Karl Rove, who actually may be running the entire show, is also likely lining up a host of conservative think-tankers. Much of the media that covered the story only a few months ago appear to have lost interest. However, before the George W. Bush Library, with its attached public policy institute, are built at Southern Methodist University (SMU) in Dallas, Texas, they must overcome rising objections within the nationwide United Methodist community.
snip
More intrigue has surfaced in the race to land the George W. Bush presidential library after it was disclosed that Southern Methodist University (SMU), Dallas, long considered a front-runner, had received a $35 million gift from Dallas businessman Ray Hunt. The gift, according to the Dallas Morning News, was used to purchase a shopping center that could become the library site. The extraordinary gift was made last fall but curiously remains unannounced by university officials, who told reporters details have not been finalized.
CMike there is a difference between low income and inner city. You can have a good education and still be poor. When my dad left we lost our house and we were poor but we still did homework and my mom still read to me and it was still middle class in some ways. Even when we didn’t have enough food I could still get help with my homework.
snarKassandra @ 67
I have a question. People say that I have a good chance to get a scholarship because I am smart and non=white. But if I leave Texas, will the color of my skin make it harder to get a job? Or harder to move up after I get a job?
May I make a gentle suggestion? Don’t worry about such things. When you present yourself as the whip-smart and talented young lady that you are, those things will take care of themselves.
Wanna be a paralegal for me? *g*
Talent is talent, and despite what you might think now, employers are much more interested in finding people who can *help* them, than they are in in meeting nebulous quotas.
snarKassandra @ 67
Keep doing what you are doing and always look ahead. You have a very bright future probably because your aunt makes you do the dishes. IIRC Eurasian? I have no data but it’s probably a slight advantage.
Elliott @ 8
I look at home schooling as improving the student teacher ratio. Home schooling is a lot like “progressive” schools in the 70’s, where the individual is allowed to acquire knowledge at their own pace.
What’s a paralegal?
I look Mexican. But I am half white.
snarKassandra @ 75
You do everything a Lawyer does, except, argue in court, or advise…!!! 8-)
CTuttle @ 77
Work your ass off for less money?
Education is not going to change the structural problems of class.
We still have a racism problem in this country. Any dark skinned person can tell you that. Try hailing a cab while black in NYC.
Obviously having skills means you can get a better job, earn more money and lift yourself up.
But in NYC for example the schools in the poorer neighborhoods are not as good as they are in the rich neighborhoods.
Our system needs an underclass and its not going to change.
Steve-AR @ 77
Basically…!!! ;-)
SK @ 67
It depends a lot on where you work. The company I work at seems to be pretty colorblind (and definitely promotes without gender bias: several of the top management are female, including the CEO.)
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What I wonder about is how many of the jobs for which companies demand that applicants have degrees really need someone with a degree, or if they just use that as another way to weed out minorities?
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If you’re poor, and have to work multiple jobs to make ends meet, you’ll probably be too poor to take time off for the doctor or the dentist, and then it’s a downward spiral in health terms.
I know someone who worked as a a paralegal and the firm ultimately funded her law degree.
I graduated from high school many years ago but it surely doesn’t sound like things have changed that much.
I graduated in the top 10% of my class but also was into sports. In fact, I won a football scholarship to a major university. After 5 years of college (red-shirted the 1st year), I received a degree in math. Building on that I eventually became an actuary and did quite well in business.
The fact is though I grew up in a slum, lived in a 3 room cold water shack, many of the people I knew back then wound up in jail or died in gang wars. Even in grammar school I realized there was a better life and was determied to do well. It was tough but things did work out.
Steve-AR @ 78
In Cassie’s case, it’s a temp job, available while she continues to go to school..
Excellent analysis–also, though, consider demographics.
I was born in the middle of the Great Depression when many fewer children were born than in say, post WW II. (Amazing, yes? Both birth control and abortion were illegal, but somehow people who were desperate managed not to have the child they could not feed.)
OK, so I was one of a very small generation coming of age just when there were a lot of job openings (1950s). I was an educated white female when there were many, many jobs that only white females were allowed to fill. (A male secretary or clerk? Hell, no. Even the thought smacked of homosexuality. A black woman–even movie star beautiful–at the receptionist desk? Forget about it.)
For years I thought the reason I was always hired was because of my superior skills. I was a good employee, but I was making pretty good money mainly because of market conditions.
snarKassandra @ 72
Well then, never mind.