oops

Aaarrrggghhhh Me Hearties!

g’morning all

regarding the war and webbs proposal this is important information to be armed with

trex showed a poll last nght that showed no change in opinion due to patraeauo

however it’s worse then nothing, approval actually went down, not up, not flat, I just got this from think progress

Public not buying Bush spin. This evening, CNN ran a report on new poll numbers from CBS that show the American public was unmoved on Iraq by the testimony of Gen. David Petraeus and President Bush’s speech. The National Journal writes that Bush’s spin is “falling on deaf ears.” A key takeaway: Before the administration’s PR offensive, 35 percent of Americans felt the troop increase was making the Iraq situation better. After the speeches and testimony, the number dropped — only 31 percent felt the escalation was working. Watch CNN’s report:

dakine01 @ 2

Aaarrrggghhhh Me Hearties!

is today talk like a pirate day?

perris @ 4

dakine01 @ 2

Aaarrrggghhhh Me Hearties!

is today talk like a pirate day?

Them’s that dies will be the lucky ones.

I sent it to Saxby. . . as if!

and check this out from think progress again…more for us to be armed with regard to the war;

Public not buying Bush spin. This evening, CNN ran a report on new poll numbers from CBS that show the American public was unmoved on Iraq by the testimony of Gen. David Petraeus and President Bush’s speech. The National Journal writes that Bush’s spin is “falling on deaf ears.” A key takeaway: Before the administration’s PR offensive, 35 percent of Americans felt the troop increase was making the Iraq situation better. After the speeches and testimony, the number dropped — only 31 percent felt the escalation was working. Watch CNN’s report:

UPDATE: Greg Sargent notes the percentage favoring withdrawal actually went up. September 18, 2007 11:00 pm | Comment (113)

Filed under:
Posted by Faiz September 18, 2007 11:00 pm

Permalink | Comment (113)

U.S. Suspends ‘Land Travel’ Outside The Green Zone For Civilian And Diplomatic Officials
Today, the United States “suspended all land travel by U.S. diplomats and other civilian officials throughout Iraq, except in Baghdad’s heavily fortified Green Zone.”

The move comes days after Blackwater USA was “allegedly involved in the fatal shooting of civilians during an attack on a U.S. State Department motorcade.” From the State Department’s notice:

In light of a serious security incident involving a U.S. embassy protective detail in the Mansour District of Baghdad, the embassy has suspended official U.S. government civilian ground movements outside the International Zone (IZ) and throughout Iraq. […]

This suspension is in effect in order to assess mission security and procedures, as well as a possible increased threat to personnel traveling with security details outside the International Zone.

In March, Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) claimed, “There are neighborhoods in Baghdad where you and I could walk through those neighborhoods, today.” Since that time, according to the Bush administration, the situation in Iraq has dramatically improved. Last week, Gen. David Petraeus and President Bush touted “security gains” in Baghdad.

Yet violence has actually risen since the President’s escalation in January. The situation in Iraq is more dangerous for diplomats as well. The 1,000 State Department employees in Iraq are now required to wear “protective gear,” as attacks have increased within the Green Zone.

U.S. diplomats are also returning from Iraq with post-traumatic stress disorder and other “debilitating, stress-related symptoms that have afflicted many U.S. troops.”

So much for leisurely strolls through Baghdad markets.

Filed under: Iraq
Posted by Amanda September 18, 2007 10:05 pm

Permalink | Comment (38)

Bush Administration Flooding Iraqi Black Market With Billions Of Dollars In Weapons
In his testimony before Congress last week, Gen. David Petraeus confirmed that the United States plans to sell billions of dollars of weapons to Iraq:

Iraq is becoming one of the United States’ larger foreign military sales customers, committing some 1.6 billion (dollars) to FMS already, with the possibility of up to 1.8 billion (dollars) more being committed before the end of this year.

so we are arming the very people that hate us to the marrow of our soul

nice

U.S. diplomats are also returning from Iraq with post-traumatic stress disorder and other “debilitating, stress-related symptoms that have afflicted many U.S. troops.”

Please

raven @ 5

perris @ 4

is today talk like a pirate day?

Them’s that dies will be the lucky ones.

well twiddle me errr…arrghhhh…

*note to self, must work on pirate language*

raven @ 8

U.S. diplomats are also returning from Iraq with post-traumatic stress disorder and other “debilitating, stress-related symptoms that have afflicted many U.S. troops.”

Please

I understand Scooter Libby is having dreadful flashbacks after his tour of duty on the frontlines.

Fouad Ajami told me so.

-GSD

Senator Warner: All wax and no wick.

raven @ 6

I sent it to Saxby. . . as if!

HA!

The State Department has their own Alberto Gonzales who has been scuttling any investigations into misdeeds in Iraq.

I wonder if the missing 190,000 guns and rumors that Blackwater is engaged in the black market arms game have piqued anyones interest in DC?

-GSD

I’m dialing some more!

and passing the request down my line of friends and relatives…

Sorry for going off-topic with commenting on the previous post, but..I think there’s a typo…shouldn’t the word ‘can’ be ‘can’t?’

The fact is that they have not been held accountable. Not in one single instance has a mercenary been charged with any crime against an Iraqi in four years of occupation, not under the Iraqi law, because the United States gutted the Iraqi legal system. At a time when it said it was handing over sovereignty, they were saying, “You can prosecute these contractors for crimes committed in your country.”

Beyond “crunch time”. CHS thanks for focusing on this issue.

Christy, it is great to see someone put together a list like this, I was kinda-sorta working the same logic a couple days ago, but few seemed interested at the time.

As one of those whose senators you would probably never put on one of these “nudge-em” lists (Brownback and Roberts) I still call them and email when a cause is right.

But all I ever get in return are form letters with vague deferrals and muddy logic.

Roberts still uses the old “stay the course” language, despite Bush’s allergic avoidance of it these days.

But it is still worth the call or the letter, just to know they were challenged, even if they don’t vote the right way. EVER!

SO, just let me encourage the rest of you trapped in the darkest redlands, your call may fall on deaf ears, but it is still one tiny grain of sand that might help start the avalanche.

Later…

I’ll give NH most endangered junior senator a call today.

Thanks Christy.

-GSD

the democrats cave once more;

Democrats drop push for immediate withdrawal in apparent effort to blame Republicans Nick Juliano
Published: Wednesday September 19, 2007

Print This Email This

A move to shift responsibility for war

Unable to attract enough war-weary Republicans, Senate Democrats are abandoning calls for a full withdrawal of US troops from Iraq as the chamber resumes debating the war this week.

http://rawstory.com//news/2007....._0919.html

Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 15

Sorry for going off-topic with commenting on the previous post, but..I think there’s a typo…shouldn’t the word ‘can’ be ‘can’t?’

The fact is that they have not been held accountable. Not in one single instance has a mercenary been charged with any crime against an Iraqi in four years of occupation, not under the Iraqi law, because the United States gutted the Iraqi legal system. At a time when it said it was handing over sovereignty, they were saying, “You can prosecute these contractors for crimes committed in your country.”

Read through the comments back there, and scarecrow explains the context. It’s correct.

The use of private contractors to replace what have been typically military missions in a combat area is the biggest scandal of this misbegotten military adventure. Their continued presence is an affront to the professional military men and women who serve honorably and for love of their country.

These “contractors” serve for love of the Benjamins and no other reason; there is no motivation for them to be there other than the paycheck. The system that brung them was a product of the Rumsfeld “re-invention of the military”, perhaps it’s time to undo that particular little bit of bullshit and go back to how it should be; the military doing their job of providing security for US officials. Oh, wait, that would mean that 20-30,000 more troops would have to go to Mess O’Potamia, thus ensuring that the Clusterfuck in the Gulf would become even more politically untenable for Beloved Leader.

So the contractors server double duty: they are a drain on the economy with their no-bid cost-plus contracts and they keep the troop numbers down artificially by killing Iraqis. What a good deal. I’ll bet they’re generous at fundraising time too… they have plenty of armed gunmen to protect those bags of cash delivered to their pet congresscriminals…

ahhh wrong post, sorry.

I sent an e-mail out to everyone I know of Democratic persuasion this morning urging them to contact Senator’s Lugar and Bayh. I called yesterday and I’ll call again right after a morning meeting I’m about to go in to.

SufiLizard @ 23

I sent an e-mail out to everyone I know of Democratic persuasion this morning urging them to contact Senator’s Lugar and Bayh. I called yesterday and I’ll call again right after a morning meeting I’m about to go in to.

you might think to send it to your republican friends also…most of them agree with habeas protection it’s just the wing nut marionettes that don’t

a republican calling or writing a republican is much more effective then a democrat calling or writing to a republican

Done!
It was preaching to the choir for both issues ~ Senators Patty Murray and Marie Cantwell. Still I wanted to let them know I am supporting their votes on both issues.

Cat in Seattle

Yesterday I sent the link to your first post to our local talk show hosts on 1480 - KPHX Progressive Talk and they ran with it for the three hours. It was funny to hear the host say…. “Our very own Katymine provided the toll-free numbers” ;)

You too can call and email your progressive radio stations to get the word out.

Lets shut the switchboard down….
Lets shut the whole communication system down with emails, direct dial and toll-free calls!

perris at 19 — Actually, that’s not correct. My understanding is what they are doing is forcing a vote on the GOP — you choose either your constituents or Bush. Which is not, last I checked, even close to “caving.” Making the GOP own their rubber stamping outright is the surest way to force the hand of the so-called moderates (the WINOs) who now have to choose whether to vote with the Bush Administration or the people they depend on for votes.

typo alert:

S.Amend.2202 should read S.Amdt.2022

(the link is to the correct bill)

perris @ 19

the democrats cave once more;

Democrats drop push for immediate withdrawal in apparent effort to blame Republicans Nick Juliano
Published: Wednesday September 19, 2007

Print This Email This

A move to shift responsibility for war

Unable to attract enough war-weary Republicans, Senate Democrats are abandoning calls for a full withdrawal of US troops from Iraq as the chamber resumes debating the war this week.

http://rawstory.com//news/2007....._0919.html

This says to me that the votes are there for the Webb amendment. A 1:1 (in theater:home)will essentially draw down troops. And, with the security contractor bullshit going on, the never-ending war proponents will be forced into a corner. JMO.

katymine @ 26 -

wow! you SO rock!

I just got off the phone with Sen. Dipshit Graham’s office. I always try to keep my cool. I grew up in DC and often visited members of Congress. I practically lost it this time. He said all Americans had the protection of habeas. I heard nothing but platitudes and prevarication. I asked whether Jose Padilla had had the protection of habeas corpus and the guy, Will Kuhn, had the gall to tell me he had, that he had been tried in a court of law. I said, yeah, after five years of torture in the city I live in. He dithered and that’s when I went off. I’m sorry I did, that’s never productive. God, I’m pissed off.

katymine at 26 — That’s so great! Thanks much!

over on kos:

Just reading through some of the latest comments, I can see that our calls have literally filled the voicemail boxes of Republican Senators Burr, Allard, Bond, Domenici, and Dole.

Keep up the good work!

katymine @ 26

Yesterday I sent the link to your first post to our local talk show hosts on 1480 - KPHX Progressive Talk and they ran with it for the three hours. It was funny to hear the host say…. “Our very own Katymine provided the toll-free numbers” ;)

You too can call and email your progressive radio stations to get the word out.

Lets shut the switchboard down….
Lets shut the whole communication system down with emails, direct dial and toll-free calls!

cool

more fdl power!

many apologies for the early OT - but this just frosts me a bit too much (and I promise to make my calls as soon as I hit the submit button).

Iran says that if it is attacked, it will defend itself. But that’s not the headline, now is it?

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/s.....CTION=HOME

The AP is totally in the bag.

F*ckers.

serge at 31 — Next time, ask Sen. Graham’s staffers if they would be comfortable with America’s soldiers or diplomatic personnel being treated the way we are treating people in Guantanimo — no real recitation of charges for years, little access to counsel, little to no access to evidence against them and/or names of witnesses accusing them. Because that is exactly what we are exposing our personnel to from other rogue nations if and when they get captured — if we do not stand up for the rights that we expect for our own people, we have no moral standing on the issue when it is inflicted on our troops.

That is why the majority of officers and JAG corps personnel oppose this. And Lindsey “JAG” Graham knows that.

Great post.
Is there a date and time for a vote on the Webb amendment?

jim at 37 - It will be introduced on the floor today — as yet, a vote time/date hasn’t been set.

Just got off the phone with Sen. Nelson’s office…he apparently still has not taken a public position on the issue.

Warner’s phone is busy.
Will keep trying.

While folks are calling in about the Webb Amenment having to do with the troop deployment, I would like to suggest folks (if CHS does not mind) also request/demand that our Reps support Webbs efforts to pass legislation which would require the Bush administration to come back through congress if the “cakewalk in Iraq” zealots decide to implement their plans to
pre-emptively attack Iran.

Remember Webb first introduced this bill back in March of 2007.
http://webb.senate.gov/newsroo.....?id=270138

Here is the latest from Iaea’s El Baradei
http://www.democracynow.org/ar.....18/1359244

ElBaradei Warns Against War on Iran
The U.N. nuclear watchdog chief Mohamed ElBaradei is warning no military action should be taken against Iran, and that threats of war are premature and counterproductive. On Sunday France warned that it was preparing for a possible war against Iran and the Telegraph of London reported that the Pentagon has developed a list of up to 2,000 bombing targets in Iran. ElBaradei, head of the International Atomic Energy Agency, said there is no evidence of ongoing prohibited nuclear or nuclear-related activities in Iran.

* Mohamed ElBaradei: “I repeat: we have not seen any undeclared facilities operating in Iran, we have not seen any concrete evidence that the Iran program is being weaponized. We have not received any information to that effect. So, I haven’t heard any other information, to the contrary. So while we are still concerned about the nature of the Iranian program, we should not… I do not believe, at this stage, that we are facing clear and present danger that requires that we go beyond diplomacy.”

ElBaradei also urged the world to remember what happened in Iraq before considering any similar action against Tehran.

El Baradei article at Think Progress
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/.....-warnings/

Webb back in March on MSNBC
http://www.taylormarsh.com/arc.....p?id=25238

S 759
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s1
10-759

Just heard on the BBC that Condi Rice has undermined Iaea El Baradei’s efforts calm the unending inflammatory language coming from the Bush administration (once again) by critcizing what he has said about Iran. WTF

GSD @ 13

The State Department has their own Alberto Gonzales who has been scuttling any investigations into misdeeds in Iraq.

I wonder if the missing 190,000 guns and rumors that Blackwater is engaged in the black market arms game have piqued anyones interest in DC?

-GSD

There is a book just out, about weapons paid for by US taxpayers, that may go to Iraqi insurgents. Wolfowitz was part of this. Merchant of Death, by Douglas Farah. It is about Victor Bout, flying weapons into Iraq.

The U.S. government response to revelations of the use of Viktor Bout to fly for government contractors in Iraq (not just a few flights, but hundreds, and perhaps a thousand) has been mixed. Bear in mind most of these flights occurred after President Bush had signed an executive order making it illegal to do business with Bout, because he represented a security threat to the United States. The State Department, under a congressional inquiry initiated by Senator Russell Feingold, found it had used Bout companies, acknowledged it, and stopped. Paul Wolfowitz, while at DOD, did not respond to queries for nine months, then acknowledged that DOD contractors had subcontracted to Bout companies. Despite the public revelation, the congressional inquiry, the executive order, and a subsequent Treasury Department order freezing the assets of Bout and his closest associates, the flights continued for many months, at least until the end of 2005. The Air Force cut him off immediately, but other branches of the military continued to use him.

John Stewart recently, interviewed Farah.

Morning, Christy! Thanks for the posts…I’ll be monitoring the progress of Habeas and Dwell today. I really hope these can pass Congress today.

Per your previous post, while I was rather cynical on hearing that Iraq has banned Blackwater (along the lines of “thats all well and good, but Iraq and, well, what army?”), it does seem to be developing more legs than I thought, and the notion that it’s put a crimp in the construction there (of bases for US, not infrastructure for the Iraqi) is just delicious. Plus all the coverage about Blackwater seems to be realizing that an unaccountable mercenary force is, well, not a Good Thing. This could have a fair amount of positive results…

Off to email!

Just got done E mailing and now I will be signing off so I can start calling. However- one point. I know its defeatest by I gotta say it anyway. If you think for one second that Warner is gonna do the right thig, you are nuts! He and specter are two of the most evil bastards in the senate. They are Potemkinites! thru and thru!
Keep the E’s and the calls coming!

I note that Lieberman’s name tops the list of waverers.

I almost think his name should just be left off as a completely lost cause. I wonder what he’d think if it became clear he got no calls at all while every other senator’s lines were jammed…

Ah well. Probably best to call him. But it’s so infuriating to see his name all the time on the shit lists…

I made the call to Specter’s offices. His DC office is more directly related to legislation (H’burg is more case work oriented), so that’s the place to start. He’s still waffling, so the call is necessary.

argh… c-span3 now has a potentially important hearing on now of the Joint Economic Committee on the housing mortgage crisis with Schiller. it wasn’t on my list, because the committee website doesn’t have it posted. argh.

i’m going to update my list today, and more importantly, i’m recording the hearing and will post the audio later today so firepups can focus on habeas now and listen later to the mortgage hearing (if interested).

Christy Hardin Smith @ 36

serge at 31 — Next time, ask Sen. Graham’s staffers if they would be comfortable with America’s soldiers or diplomatic personnel being treated the way we are treating people in Guantanimo — no real recitation of charges for years, little access to counsel, little to no access to evidence against them and/or names of witnesses accusing them. Because that is exactly what we are exposing our personnel to from other rogue nations if and when they get captured — if we do not stand up for the rights that we expect for our own people, we have no moral standing on the issue when it is inflicted on our troops.

That is why the majority of officers and JAG corps personnel oppose this. And Lindsey “JAG” Graham knows that.

Christy…I did. It simply didn’t matter, either to Graham’s staffer and to EmptySuit DeMint’s (sounds French) office. They just don’t care. That Padilla, who may be a scumbag for all I know, was tortured just up the road from where I am right now, I feel horrified.

reminder
thanks to selise

Iraq:
Wedesday, 10:00 am - House Foreign Affairs
Assessment of the Administration’s September Report on the Status of U.S. Political and Military Efforts in Iraq. Witnesses: Lindsey Graham and Richard C. Holbrooke

i emailed this to my brother in VA

billjpa at 44 — That doesn’t mean I’m going to stop calling him on the fact that he’s breaking his word. Warner doesn’t get a pass.

Graham is arguing against habeas restoration on the floor of the Senate right now on C-Span2 btw. It is all I can do not to throw things at my teevee.

Lieberman’s voice mail box is full.

Hope it contains lots of strong messages re habeas, like the one I intended to leave.

Warner’s not the only one with a busy phone line…

That is a very good sign.

go doggies!

Christy Hardin Smith @ 53

Graham is arguing against habeas restoration on the floor of the Senate right now on C-Span2 btw. It is all I can do not to throw things at my teevee.

What’s his effin’ argument? Taht all Americans are afforded habeas already? That little prick needs his ass kicked!

~~~ModNote: We trust you mean that figuratively…~~~

Specter is up — and calling bullshit on Graham. This could be fun.

Christy:

Morning. IIRC, Debbie Stabinow is no longer on the fence on the habeas corpus restoration. She said “yes” yesterday.

Oh, thank god — Specter is actually citing the case law and precedents that call bullshit on Graham’s disingenuous and inaccurate arguments. And doing so publicly.

Biodun at 57 — Yay! Thanks much!

Specter up now, after Graham, arguing about HC. He just said that Sen. Graham’s arguments are outdated.
Explains about Guantamo Detainees rights as determined by recent court decision.
CSPAN2.
But, who is listening to him?

I’m very disheartened. I called Bayh yesterday and was told he was voting, for it. This morning’s follow up? “He hasn’t told us how he will vote on it”. When I pressed the guy, he hemmed and offered to “relay my opinion”. UGH

Lugar is firmly in the “dunno” category, and my friend in the Ft Wayne office won’t be able to get back to me until it won’t make a diff. But I let him know my feelings.

Very frustrating- not good.

September 19th, 2007 at 6:23 am
Jo Fish at #21 says:

These “contractors” serve for love of the Benjamins and no other reason; there is no motivation for them to be there other than the paycheck.

I’m not so sure money is the only reason that security contractors serve, and the other reasons are at least as scary, if not more so. These are “soldiers of fortune,” but they are also people who are looking for adventure, are looking for someone to bully, people who love the danger and get off on violence. They tend to run in small groups of marauding men without regard for laws or other people’s lives. They are the kind of people that go wherever the fight is, and can just as easily be on either side of the fight, because they are not fighting for a principle or for an ideology, they are in it strictly for the armed combat. They see themselves as modern day gladiators. Geez, we can’t get rid of these guys too fast to suit me. They are dangerous.

Christy Hardin Smith @ 57

Oh, thank god — Specter is actually citing the case law and precedents that call bullshit on Graham’s disingenuous and inaccurate arguments. And doing so publicly.

Fantastic!

Jo Fish @ 22

ahhh wrong post, sorry.

Oh, sure, now that I’ve answered that wrong post, now you tell me. Oops!

Ann in AZ @ 62

September 19th, 2007 at 6:23 am
Jo Fish at #21 says:

These “contractors” serve for love of the Benjamins and no other reason; there is no motivation for them to be there other than the paycheck.

I’m not so sure money is the only reason that security contractors serve, and the other reasons are at least as scary, if not more so. These are “soldiers of fortune,” but they are also people who are looking for adventure, are looking for someone to bully, people who love the danger and get off on violence. They tend to run in small groups of marauding men without regard for laws or other people’s lives. They are the kind of people that go wherever the fight is, and can just as easily be on either side of the fight, because they are not fighting for a principle or for an ideology, they are in it strictly for the armed combat. They see themselves as modern day gladiators. Geez, we can’t get rid of these guys too fast to suit me. They are dangerous.

DING! DING! DING! They’re also a contingent of the 28%ers.

1,603 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..

Citizen Serge:

“…and that’s when I went off, I’m sorry I did, that’s never productive.”

First of all, don’t waste one erg of psychological energy on guilt, secondly, there IS there is a time when it is productive to “go off” and that’s when the person you are goin’ off on truly doesn’t understand the criminality or human suffering of their position or when the person with whom you are communicating only understands the truth of another’s argument by the depth of committment of the presenter.

This doesn’t even address the overwhelming sense of elation one feels when you speak truth to stupidity.

KEEP THE FAITH AND NEVER FEEL QUILTY ABOUT FEELING OUTRAGE OVER DEATH AND INHUMANITY!!

SufiLizard @ 23

I sent an e-mail out to everyone I know of Democratic persuasion this morning urging them to contact Senator’s Lugar and Bayh. I called yesterday and I’ll call again right after a morning meeting I’m about to go in to.

Let me know if you have any better luck than me!!

I’ve had it with Lieberman. But here’s a letter sent to me in *July* by the equivocating bastard. Yesterday, as of 3:40pm the “Senator has not made a decision, although he’s been supporter in the past.” From experience, that means “no.” Below exhibit A on how he BS’s “his constituents” including myself, your truly.

July 18, 2007
Dear Friend:
Thank you for contacting me to express your views regarding the Habeas Corpus Restoration Act of 2007 (S. 185), which was introduced by Senator Arlen Specter (R-PA). I appreciate your views on this serious matter, and I welcome the opportunity to respond.
As you may know, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in Hamdan v. Rumsfeld that military commissions that had been set up by executive order were in violation of the Geneva Conventions and the U.S. Uniform Code of Military Justice. By establishing tribunals unilaterally and without authorization by Congress, the Bush Administration had exceeded its legal authority; and the Supreme Court, in what I thought was an excellent decision, ruled that no one in this country is above the law, including the President in a time of war.
With my support, the Senate Armed Services Committee approved a measure aimed at fulfilling the requirements set forth in the Hamdan decision, and which included such provisions as ones that would allow suspects to see evidence against them and bar evidence obtained through torture or coercion. In addition to seeking to follow the Supreme Court’s ruling, I feel that the United States must stand on higher ground by following the rule of law and human rights standards under the guidelines of the Geneva Conventions.
Later in the 109th Congress, I voted for the Military Commissions Act of 2006 (S. 3930) because it provided a process that I believe responds to the Supreme Court’s Hamdan decision. The bill set clear military tribunal guidelines to try enemy combatants against the United States charged with violating the laws of war. S. 3930 did not alter our responsibilities under the Geneva Conventions, thanks to the negotiations led by Senator John McCain (R-AZ) and others. Also, during the debate over S. 3930, I voted for an amendment introduced by Senator Specter that, among other things, would have allowed habeas corpus protections to aliens detained by the United States, outside of the United States, and who were determined to be enemy combatants or awaiting such a determination. The Specter amendment, unfortunately, did not pass.
S. 185 would amend the federal habeas corpus limitations imposed by the recently enacted Military Commissions Act and the Detainee Treatment Act. In so doing, the bill affords aliens detained by the United States within its territorial jurisdiction, including those detained at the Guantanamo Bay Naval Base, the right to challenge their detention and military commission trial procedures by an application for writ of habeas corpus. S. 185 is currently pending consideration by the Senate Judiciary Committee. Please be assured that I will continue to keep in mind the views which you shared as this bill moves through the legislative process. To keep track of future actions on this legislation, you can go to the “Bill Tracking” service at http://lieberman.senate.gov/issues/resources. . . .

I have emailed the wafflers, made a bunch of calls yesterday and have to get ready for work, but I want to just say thanks to every one for protecting my freedom.

Bless you.

See you later.

I called Lieberman’s office and pushed the option to speak to a staffer instead of the voice mail. I spoke to a young man there, who said he didn’t know the senators position, but he had voted for Habeus before and against the Webb amendment in the past.
Is it weird that whenever I call, they never have a firm statement on where he stands?

Christy Hardin Smith @ 57

Oh, thank god — Specter is actually citing the case law and precedents that call bullshit on Graham’s disingenuous and inaccurate arguments. And doing so publicly.

as much as i complain about specter (and i’m not backing down on that at all!), there’s is a world’s worth of difference between specter and graham.

perris, didn’t this line make you stop for a moment and consider the source?
“Democrats drop push for immediate withdrawal in apparent effort to blame Republicans…”

Since when do the Democrats need the “blame” the Republicans, all they have to do is let it all slide and the R’s take the rap, becausse they R guilty as hell.
But instead, the Dems continue to push for peace, in varying degrees of certitude.

If they really want to damage the R’s they will just drop the whole matter until next election.

The Democrats are actually giving some of the R’s a chance to hold their seats, in exchange for an end to this stupid Bush “war.”

As I see it, the Dems are not helping themselves as a party by pushing these R’s to capitulate, nearly as much as if they just let the R’s continue losing support by mismanaging this mess.

But they are helping the American people, even if it means they won’t pick up a few of those seats.

I know you aren’t a concern-troll, or I wouldn’t pose this argument. At least consider that the Dems are giving up some of their future advantage by co-opting these R’s NOW in an efforrt to save every American life they might.

And for what purpose? To end this mess.

Paddy @ 67

SufiLizard @ 23

I sent an e-mail out to everyone I know of Democratic persuasion this morning urging them to contact Senator’s Lugar and Bayh. I called yesterday and I’ll call again right after a morning meeting I’m about to go in to.

Let me know if you have any better luck than me!!

I called Bayh on this issue months ago - got back a letter which was so garbled and nonsensical that I *still* don’t know what it was trying to say.

I threw it away.

Still trying to get thru to his D.C. office.

twȝk @ 63

Christy Hardin Smith @ 57

Oh, thank god — Specter is actually citing the case law and precedents that call bullshit on Graham’s disingenuous and inaccurate arguments. And doing so publicly.

Fantastic!

Which Arlen Spector is it today?

Here’s the latest Senate tally on the habeas corpus restoration.

The nays don’t surprise me. The usual suspects.

Oh lord, Kyl is up. Someone pass me the ibuprofin…

I’m not sure in the current climate this is OT,

but look what happened when the mother of a Kursk sailor spoke up and out

Christy Hardin Smith @ 76

Oh lord, Kyl is up. Someone pass me the ibuprofin…

Kyl - Habeas can’t be restored because it never existed…

twolf1 @ 78

Christy Hardin Smith @ 76

Oh lord, Kyl is up. Someone pass me the ibuprofin…

Kyl - Habeas can’t be restored because it never existed…

That does it. There must be a test required of all those elected to office:

“There exists a document called the Constitution. T/F?”….

*headdesk*

jayt @73

Just got thru to Bayh’s Indy office. DC was not a fluke, he’s back to “He has not told us how he is going to vote” on Habeus. Woman was super dense, and when I asked about Webb/Dwell she seemed not know what it was and when asking me if I wanted to relay my opinions, it took everything I had not to scream.

Bayh is waffling.

Bayh’s office doesn’t know how he’ll vote on Habeas - and they *believe* that he’s in favor of the Webb Amendment.

Ann in AZ @ 61

September 19th, 2007 at 6:23 am
Jo Fish at #21 says:

These “contractors” serve for love of the Benjamins and no other reason; there is no motivation for them to be there other than the paycheck.

I’m not so sure money is the only reason that security contractors serve, and the other reasons are at least as scary, if not more so. These are “soldiers of fortune,” but they are also people who are looking for adventure, are looking for someone to bully, people who love the danger and get off on violence. They tend to run in small groups of marauding men without regard for laws or other people’s lives. They are the kind of people that go wherever the fight is, and can just as easily be on either side of the fight, because they are not fighting for a principle or for an ideology, they are in it strictly for the armed combat. They see themselves as modern day gladiators. Geez, we can’t get rid of these guys too fast to suit me. They are dangerous.

Does anyone know where Blackwater recruits its people from? Ex-Rangers and Navy Seals? People discharged under Sec. 8? Honestly - you sometimes wonder what the psychological make up and skill set is of the people who work for them.

Paddy @ 80

jayt @73

Just got thru to Bayh’s Indy office. DC was not a fluke, he’s back to “He has not told us how he is going to vote” on Habeus. Woman was super dense, and when I asked about Webb/Dwell she seemed not know what it was and when asking me if I wanted to relay my opinions, it took everything I had not to scream.

Bayh is waffling.

My statement to the kid in D.C. was that “I can’t believe that I’m having to make this call”.

Ann in AZ @ 61

I’m not so sure money is the only reason that security contractors serve, and the other reasons are at least as scary, if not more so. These are “soldiers of fortune,” but they are also people who are looking for adventure, are looking for someone to bully, people who love the danger and get off on violence. They tend to run in small groups of marauding men without regard for laws or other people’s lives. They are the kind of people that go wherever the fight is, and can just as easily be on either side of the fight, because they are not fighting for a principle or for an ideology, they are in it strictly for the armed combat. They see themselves as modern day gladiators. Geez, we can’t get rid of these guys too fast to suit me. They are dangerous.

That is the best summary I have read. The “Shoot guns and blow shit up” mentality. The thrill of exposing oneself to danger is probably needed for human survival but it needs very tight controls.

Did kyl just say that detainees are doing well because they have more rights now that they ever did?

mui @ 67

I’ve had it with Lieberman. But here’s a letter sent to me in *July* by the equivocating bastard. Yesterday, as of 3:40pm the “Senator has not made a decision, although he’s been supporter in the past.” From experience, that means “no.” Below exhibit A on how he BS’s “his constituents” including myself, your truly.

To keep track of future actions on this legislation, you can go to the “Bill Tracking” service at http://lieberman.senate.gov/issues/resources. . . .

And the link, oddly enough, makes no mention of habeas.

peanutbutter @ 78

twolf1 @ 78

Kyl - Habeas can’t be restored because it never existed…

That does it. There must be a test required of all those elected to office:

“There exists a document called the Constitution. T/F?”….

*headdesk*

Followed by: If you marked “T”, have you ever read it? T/F?

Yep…. if you do research on Kyl, he has wanted to distroy Habeas for years.

He wants direct from apprehension to conviction to death row to the execution to be within months.

Ok… now I have my next action against Kyl… have everyone send him a copy of the Constitution with the section on Habeas highlighted. YEP…. hundreds of copies… na it will not change his mind, he just will put a new section on his webpage about how he supports the Constitution just like he did when we challanged him on his votes for Vets.

JEP @ 73

twȝk @ 63

Fantastic!

Which Arlen Spector is it today?

sounds like the good one :o

twolf1 @ 85

Did kyl just say that detainees are doing well because they have more rights now that they ever did?

Sort of. He also said that black was white and night was day.

Please if anyone can understand his reasoning and logic I would love hear it.

Kyl irritates the crap out of me. For those who want some current legal precedent — as opposed to Eisentrager which Kyl is misrepresenting — and the current arguments before the US Supreme Court are outlined a bit in this pos