Well, it's been another week - and we're still on the Residual Troops Watch. Another week with no word from the big three campaigns on their plans to leave residual troops in Iraq after/if they become president. Plans for ending the occupation are central to our choice of a candidate and yet Clinton, Obama and Edwards still refuse to answer: "How many, how long?"
Senator Dodd also has not answered but he gets props for working hard to move the Senate to refuse to give George another blank check and he still needs our help. Governor Richardson remains the only major candidate who has made his plans for Iraq crystal clear - all troops out, no residual forces.
Seems like the voters deserve a clear answer on this - and that some candidates really don't want to give one. Wonder why that is....
Meanwhile back in the real world outside the Petraeus bubble, US supply lines look shakier than ever, devastated Iraqi families die and flee, Cholera is spreading across Iraqi governates, and Baghdad, like Falluja, has been "pacified" by turning this once vibrant city into a collection of virtual prison neighborhoods.
Iraqis entered the month of Ramadan with hope of one good development. US and Iraqi officials had promised to release detainees, held without trial or charges. While some releases are occurring, Azzaman notes that the numbers are very low compared to the total of 100,000 held:
With the advent of the holy month of Ramadan, many hoped U.S. and Iraqi authorities would settle the issue of tens of thousand of Iraqi prisoners.
U.S. troops hold 23,600 Iraqis almost all of them without trial. The U.S. has promised to release 50 of them every day throughout Ramadan.
But the U.S. is not the only authority with the right to jail Iraqis. Iraqi armed forces and police can also imprison Iraqis without trail and informed sources say there are more than 82,000 Iraqis in government jails.
Prisoners have become one of the thorniest issues blocking the path to reconciliation with government opponents, particularly the Sunnis demanding the immediate release of all those who have not been convicted of a crime.
But neither the U.S. nor the government is willing to heed the Sunni demand.
The government has only agreed to release 200 on the occasion of the holy month and the U.S. has accepted to free about 1,500.
Most of these prisoners are snatched from their families or haphazardly arrested during military campaigns or on checkpoints.
(snip)
The Justice Ministry is increasing the pressure on the Iraqi government, U.S. troops and Kurdish authorities to let a high judicial commission examine the files of all prisoners.
The ministry would like the commission to have the prerogative to set all the prisoners who have not been convicted free and expedite the trial of those accused of committing a crime.
Strange how all the benchmarks touted by Washington insiders skip such simple goalposts as basic legal protections for Iraqis.
The YouTube above is Rev Yearwood's speech after his arraignment this week - it's been circulating a lot but I wanted to make sure folks had a chance to see it. The Reverand and Iraq Vets against the War as well as many others will spend this week in DC demanding action from Congress. Let's make sure that we add our voices to theirs with calls, faxes and emails even if we're not actually there in person.
h/t Jerid
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Zed!
boo
zed.
Oooh, accidental zed?
aaaaaand not EVEN close!
FunnyD
drat…’evening, Siun.
Evenin’ Siun!
Evening everybody!
So was anyone in DC yesterday? I’ve been watching the youtubes.
Siun @ 7
Jonathan and Kathyrn, who just posted Pixs in EPU land…!!!
Front runners. What exactly is your script for Middle East peace?
Siun @ 7
Yes, and gradually putting up pix. will continue with more tomorrow. Due to inability to sleep on a bus, am retiring for the evening. ***smooches*** to all.
http://www.ykosfdl.blogspot.com/
Siun, I just don’t believe any of them have any intention to withdraw…I’m sure you’re familiar with Brezenski’s The Grand Chessboard, where he talks about the strategic (oil) value of the Caspian basin, plus the close proximity of the ME. With a large field army forward-deployed in the area, the US is in the position to veto access to all of the above…this is an extremely powerful strategic position, and a position few American Presidents are likely to willingly resign, without extreme persuasion.
One person’s quagmire is another’s strategic placement.
Siun @ 7
I was there, and all I have to say is, it felt like democracy.
Thanks Siun.
It’s the “secret plan to end the Vietnam War”, part II.
Some people need to be reminded that Nixon almost lost in ‘68 when Humphrey made a late run and Nixon refused to clarify what his secret plan was.
What?
BTW, Kathryn in MA, great pics!
Haven’t seen much of Richardson but I’ve liked what I’ve seen. Seems buried in the pack right now..wonder if he has a chance.
There have been enough establishment type experts who have laid their cards on the table for both Democratic and Republican candidates to start laying out detailed plans. There is plenty of ‘cover’ to counter the corporate media nursery school story lines.
Here is the one from Col Patrick Lang, Vietnam veteran and Middle East foreign affairs and intelligence services veteran. These campaigns all have their chosen experts, so they all should be able to produce something this specific. Lang has appeared on CNN’s mainstream shows often.
http://turcopolier.typepad.com.....ogram.html
Thank you, Elliot and CTuttle!
Yay Kathryn! Jonathan! Bluejeansntshirt!
Looks wonderful from the videos … I got that People United buzz just from watching!
Care to tell any tales?
And is anyone doing any of this week’s lobbying?
I may be in DC and is so will join in…
and DRon - now, off to bed.
Kathryn in MA @ 20
Heh, must be sleepy…!!! Nite, Ma’am!!!
From Dennis4President.com:
The details of his plan — which vaguely suggests he will bring home all of the troops, but that there will be an international peacekeeping force — can be found here.
good night, Kathryn! sleep well.
Please fix links! 404 and 500 errors.
New game, CT
Don’t have time to track it down right now but I though Edwards had clarified his stand on this.
Am I wrong?
Chargers gettin the shit kicked out of em
Hate ta see poor Norv takin it on the chin- bein a Duck an all- too bad.
The next president needs to be aware that we need a complete over haul of our Middle East policies. Beginning with an even handed settlement of the Israeli-Palestinian situation.
Extremely moving and impressive video of the hiphop caucus reverend with the other iraq vets.
that’s pretty powerful stuff.
I assume edwards, obama, and hillary have not spoken out against his mistreatment.
on to tehran!!! on to damascus!!!
rwcole @ 16
Seems like Richardson’s chance is somewhat better than Kucinich’s chance which resembles the chance that a snowball has in hell. But its still a chance. /s
BigMitch @ 25
It’s a pitcher’s duel, two ancient masters squaring off, the last time they dueled was Game 1, WS ‘01!!!
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 29
They Betrayus too..
hackworth @ 30
Kucinich way ahead of the pack in blind taste tests. That is surveys where they ask Dems for positions on issues and match them with candidates.
BigMitch @ 33
Richardson and Kucinich are the two candidates who say bring all the troops home.
There are many things I like about a pitcher’s duel. One thing is it makes certain people comment that baseball is boring, and then I know never to pay attention to their opinion on anything.
Refresh your pages and all the links should now be fine. Apologies!
Kerry was great on Meet the Press this morning. McCain kept interrupting him. Kerry kept saying that we needed “leverage” in Iraq, and that we needed to “surge the diplomacy”.
Kerry was saying that the troops should be reduced over the next year.
On “This Week” the panel seemed to agree that the troop level would not go below 60,ooo.
If you have not seen the movie “No End in Sight” it is well worth it.
http://www.noendinsightmovie.com/
ploeg @ 13
I don’t know what year this is from, but the Dems should take note of this Nixon campaign commercial
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5fE2tXxBOw
Baseball is so boring I almost never read peoples comments who might discuss it.
But I am also a Kucinich supporter..)
BigMitch @ 22
The details of his plan — which vaguely suggests he will bring home all of the troops, but that there will be an international peacekeeping force — can be found here.
Strange that the only candidate to disclose a crystal clear progressive position on every issue of importance is the one we have written off as a can’t win no matter what candidate.
BigMitch @ 35
Particularly when it’s two future Hall-of-Famers on the mound…!!! 8-)
Good evening everyone! I was able to avoid the sunday yack fests and spent the day outside enjoying the not as hot weather. I was almost afraid to come to the lake and find out what wingnuttery has oozed up from the depths. As ever, I am grateful for the stout souls who keep track of the lunacy for us all.
Kucinich has become the perennial 1% of the vote candidate..I don’t pay any attention to him unless I need to be entertained.
Richardson has been working Iowa hard hopin for a pop up. If not- he’s done.
BigMitch @ 22
The details of his plan — which vaguely suggests he will bring home all of the troops, but that there will be an international peacekeeping force — can be found here.
Kucinich convinced/pushed other Congress members to vote against the war resolution in Oct 2002
Kathleen @ 37
My bride went it see it last night while I watched football. She said, “you don’t need to see that, it’ll just make yo madder”!
I don’t know what year this is from, but the Dems should take note of this Nixon campaign commercial
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5fE2tXxBOw
************
wow. spectacular con job.
Hiya Siun.
Are any of these real criminals? What kind of stuff is illegal over there? If they didn’t have trials does that mean they didn’t have lawyers and plea bargains too?
Strange that the only candidate to disclose a crystal clear progressive position on every issue of importance is the one we have written off as a can’t win no matter what candidate.
weird eh? almost like it’s been…………scripted in advance…….
Can Halliburton jail Iraqis? How much do they charge?
SnarKassandra @ 47
Didn’t or don’t?
1,600 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON…
Citizen Siun and the Firepup Patriots:
Thanx you sister Siun, the video must be seen by everyone in the progressive community and all those who are wondering what we are to do…where do we put our energy…how do we end this terrible war…who do we trust to advance our cause and the cause of all common people.
Those who have been wringing their hands and condescendingly chastising Code Pink for the courage to stand up and tell truth to liars…those who are concerned about “Hip Hop” representatives getting arrested while tryin to witness a congressional hearing…those who are worried that those “crazy anti-war people” will become the symbol of democratic opposition…for all you people, watch this video and then watch a tape of the first three days of the 1968 Democratic Convention. This “hip hop” Reverend and those Code Pink people are carryin us on their shoulders…there is nuthin other than ending the war, no agenda, no presidential campaign, no senate hearings, no legislative initiatives, no congressional campaigns. There is nuthin’ but ending the war and making the Democratic Party responsible for doin it or we will break it down and rebuild it without the chickenshit “liberals” and the cocktail party “progressives” who are responsible for gettin us in this mess in the first place.
KEEPTHE FAITH AND DON’T BE DISTRACTED ANYMORE!!
madmommy @ 42
What happened to your ‘Aints??? My Broncos, squeaked by…!!! ;-)
john in sacramento @ 38
Wow! A powerful ad. Though looking back, knowing what we know now, gives it a different perspective from the one intended. But I was only 3 in 1968, so I don’t have any personal memories of that time.
Like — did they have a lawyer and a plea bargain after they got arrested? Or are they JUST in jail.
Gotta keep Iraqis in jail to keep em from indulging in Iraq’s two favorite pastimes- killin other Iraqis and leavin Iraq.
I heard this interview with Leon Panetta this morning that I think contained some interesting information. You can click on the hyperlink ‘KCBS In Depth: The Iraq War’ or the first two buttons from the left immediately below the description that appears on the page. The interview will also replay tonight at 7PM if you are live in SF Bay or Sacramento area in CA. You can use the middle button to download an mp3 file, which might be good to do soon since they seem to lag a couple of months in putting these interviews into the archives.
KCBS In Depth: The Iraq War
The guest is former White House Chief of Staff and Congressman Leon Panetta. (9/16; 27:10)
http://www.kcbs.com/pages/7747.php?
The two most interesting and damning bits are these
1) Panetta says Cheney-bush are moving the goalposts not only to kick the can to the next president, but to finagle a way to establish their Korea scenario. If the goalpost becomes incremental progress in maintaining security, and becomes the accepted definition of success, then groundwork laid for decades long occupation. Even with high levels of violence and suffering for both US troops and Iraqis
2) Panetta seems to say that Cheney-bush did LESS to further political reconciliation inside Iraq this summer than previously during occupation. Listen and see if you agree. If that is true, the question is, do Cheney-Bush want real reconciliation and political progress? I think at this point the sensible answer is no.
Listen and see if you agree with my take.
Now that Greenspan has mainstreamed the rather obvious point that to some extent the war was about oil it is time to start asking about the administrations’ intentions (and I think good reason to believe that it was 100% about oil and power projection for the Cheney faction -only question has ever been whether those people are really that stupid).
It is harder and harder to deny that there is a real possibility (which is becoming probability) that Cheney-Bush’s goal is force a long term large scale military occupation in Iraq for platform to launch more Middle East policy and humanitarian disasters. That is a major policy decision, a very stupid one, a very immoral one, that the voters of this country and Congress need to debate. It needs to be debated loudly and clearly. And if Cheney-Bush have used subterfuge and lies to force this policy on the US and Iraq, seems to me more evdidence of high crimes and misdemeanors. Same if they have intentionally been negligent in working on political reconciliation. Of course, they did work a lot on pressing for their darling little oil lawy, but that has gone nowhere. What else have they done?
Time to start talking big picture and asking big picture questions. Congress? Congress? hello… Congress?
madmommy @ 42
My opinion is that John Kerry on MTP gave a ppoor performance. “No one is talking about complete withdrawal.” Excuse me?
RonD @ 11
Excellent point. And of course feeding that which we dare not name is very high on the list of reasons why The MeatGrinder is supported by so many on both sides of the aisle.
CTuttle @ 52
God, just don’t go there! I could have suited up my granny’s bridge club and they could have done better. Coach is not a happy camper, and I would not have wanted to be on that plane comming back to NOLA.
nixon’s ad was crafted by some savvy media people.
probably antiwar ‘liberals’ who didn’t want to turn down a good buck (sheer speculation).
using the images of horror to decry ‘mismanagement’ and pretend it would [all go bye bye] be ’solved’ by new leadership.
SnarKassandra @ 54
No due process now or then.
BigMitch @ 57
Uh, what happened to; “Who shall be the last man to die…???” Hmmm…
“There was a time when the I/P issue rarely was brought up at fdl.”
Thompson could well have a secret plan to end the war- secret even from him- double secret.
Who is objecting to this? US or Maliki?
SnarKassandra @ 65
The Iraqi Justice ministry.
rwcole @ 64
didn’t the iraq war start before the terry schiavo fiasco/tragedy?
if so, he’s probably forgotten about it.
CTuttle @ 62
Kerry is dead to me. After he jumped on the slam MoveOn bandwagon, I lost all respect for him. You’d think that someone who had been slimed, more than once, would be more discerning than to use GOP talking points against progressives.
A little WH kicback at Greenspan:LINK
64 rwcole says
September 16th, 2007 at 6:40 pm
Thompson could well have a secret plan to end the war- secret even from him- double secret.
—-
Mr. rwcole, excuse me, but the Iraq war started four years ago, do you think Fuhgedaboudit Fred remembers what it is all about? I think not. Unlikely. Very unlikely.
This should piss ya’ll off.
Frank Rich:
Kathleen @ 37
Kathleen, I thought Kerry did a damn fine job against the Maverick and the Media Whore whose message is controlled by the WH.
Kerry was clear, concise and articulate, without the rambling excessive monologues that were a factor in his losing presidential bid. I was proud of him.
Great article by Ray McGovern
http://www.informationclearing…..e18406.htm
McCain To MoveOn: Get Out Of This Country
http://www.informationclearing.....e18394.htm
OT - Just happened to be cruising over the TV Guide….
UNC-Greensboro economic professor Bruce Caldwell discusses economist F.A.Hayek’s influential book (1944), “The Road to Serfdom.”
Don’t know crap about Bruce Caldwell, but I actually was checking out Hayek’s book on Friday. Part of discussion on class structure in this country, etc.
madmommy @ 68
Kerry lost the election to Bush. What more do you have to know to conclude that he’s a knucklehead? He re-negged on his promise to see that every vote was counted. What more do you have to know to conclude that he’s not a spokesman for mainstream Democrats? And he doesn’t have a plan for ending the war.
wesgpc @ 70
rwcole’s post read as snark to me.
Fred seems not to be able to remember much of anything, wonder if he has a microchip embedded in his neck in case he wanders off and can’t find his way home?
dang, some one beat me to the Thompson senility/memory lapse issue.
Speaking as a lifelong Democrat, I have to say that I am extremely enthusiastic about Fred Thompson’s candidacy, and applaud his strong work so far. I hope he keeps it up!
Hi makes Reagan look like Aristotle, Einstein, Confucious and Jeffeson all rolled up into one.
It’s a tossup for me - HBO tonight, ‘Snakes on a mf*cking Plane’ or something educational.
raven @ 71
Pissed off cause he is right that the dems are wimps?
BMitch we disagee again..oh well
SnarKassandra @ 79
And because “some” think the moveon headline was stupid.
BigMitch @ 35
memories of days with the wireless burbling away in the background,punctuated by enthusiastic yells and cries of “kill tha bludy ref,that bastard.mean’t nothing to me,just the grownups being their usual incomprehensible selves.footy in the winter,cricket in the summer.
it mean’t life was normal,time mooched forth and all was well.
this is not a sports column is it?
no.
really?
really!!(well, sort of.little bit squeezed in here and there.)
TILLMAN.
wesgpc @ 77
Be careful what you wish for! The GOP is praying for the second comming of Reagan, and they’re thinking Fred is it. There are plenty of stupid people out there who will eat him up with a spoon,never thinking for a moment that he’s not just an empty suit, but an empty head, as well.
No one has ever gone broke underestimating the stupidity of the general public.
Kathleen @ 80
What? You like the Red Sox??
Like all great pitcher’s duels, this one has its share of sparkling defensive gems, even if the only red sox run is unearned.
BigMitch @ 84
I flipped over from the Pats, game, they are already up 24-0. Looks as though the Sox need some extra cheering from me.
BTW, on the football pre-game, Costas announced that KO is in the hospital, emergency appendectomy. Have I been completely out of the loop? Hadn’t heard anything about it till tonight.
“Front-runners”. Is that what is meant by those having the most money in their war chest?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 87
I think it means the ones that the TV reporters like the best and have been pushing at us for months already.
Kerry didn’t lose to Bush. Kerry won the election. Ohio corruption threw the election to Bush.
ballot boxes secreted away during ‘terror alerts,’ oh my god the list is endless….
madmommy @ 86
That is sad, I’m hoping for a speedy recovery for KO!!!
madmommy @ 83
Maybe. But have you listened to Thompson? In statistics, Thompson is what you would call a very large extrapolation outside the historical sample. He seems to have no skills whatever. And he doesn’t even seem willing to memorize a script, and doesn’t bother with deliver. Both Reagaon and Bush II beat him by far there when they were candidates. I guess Thompson is one of those artistis who won’t work on spec.
But then, I agree it is worrisome. All except McCain are outside the historical sample of nothingness, and they have positive poll numbes. That is worrying.
Good nite all.
I hate baseball :0
The view here is that the Israeli government would be more than happy to see the Israeli-Palestinian problem not brought up.
Kerry on Meet the Press. See for yourselves
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032608/
Kerry also spent a good deal of time on the deaths and the op-ed piece written by the seven soldiers in the New York Times. Kerry also referred to the soldier Staff Sgt Jeremy Murphy who had been shot in the head.
ccmask @ 92
pretend it’s cricket!!! :-)
ccmask @ 92
Bye.
But you can stay and talk about other stuff.
Uhoh, sounds like Clemens is done for the nite…!!!
Transcript of the Yearwood ‘tube?
Someone above mentioned Edwards - Edwards made a big speech about Iraq but didn’t give specifics on residual forces.
We just want a simple answer.
Cassie - when the US troops and the Iraqi troops break into Iraqi houses in the middle of the night, they often grab all men in the house and haul them off to be detained. Large numbers (as you can see) have simply been held with no charges, no trial, no lawyer, no nothing - just held.