People who talk about masculinity -- especially conservatives, who seem to obsess about it, but in a peculiarly juvenile way -- have always seemed a little weird to me. It's like the cliche retort the wealthy like to use: "If you have to ask how much it is, you can't afford it." Masculinity is one of those things where if you have to talk about it, you're never going to get it. And the harder you try, the less a man you become.
So I enjoyed something of a low, mordant chortle the other day when Jane picked up, from Instaputz, something that Dr. Helen (the spouse of our old friend [ahem] Glenn Reynolds) wrote at her blog:
I have seen this fear of manliness in many modern husbands and fathers. Some men today are afraid of appearing like their own fathers, whom they thought of as unfair, controlling or condescending to women—the son swears he will not act the same way. Unfortunately, he often goes to the opposite extreme of letting his wife or others run all over him. These men are often doing dishes, watching the kids and earning much of the money all the while feeling guilty if anyone is unhappy with them. If you think this may be your problem, I have a couple of suggestions. Pick up a copy of How To Be a Man by John Birmingham and learn how to gain more self-confidence in being a man. In addition, get The Dangerous Book for Boys and build a treehouse, make a go-cart or learn to engage in fun activities that will make you appreciate how much fun it is to be a man. Ignore the societal pressures and male bashing and practice carrying yourself with pride until it feels real.
You see, for the past six years, while I've been editing my blog and writing my books, my primary job description has been stay-at-home father for my daughter, Fiona. She turned six earlier this summer and will start first grade this fall, so I've gotten a real job again and have spent much of the summer ruminating on what it's all meant.
And I have to tell you: it's been without question the most satisfying and rewarding thing I've done in my life. When I shuffle off this mortal coil, it will be with the knowledge I really did accomplish something worthwhile, and nothing -- certainly not sneers from the haplessly ignorant -- can take that away. The idea that it is not a masculine thing to do just seems absurd and incomprehensible to me.
Perhaps more to the point, it's only confirmed my belief that it's an experience more men need. It's important not just for making men better fathers, but I think also for making women better mothers -- and most of all, for giving child-rearing the cherished and significant place it should have in broader society.
My wife Lisa and I did it this way partly because, though we intended all along to have children, we wanted to do so when one of us could stay at home. I'd seen too many friends and colleagues knock themselves out to juggle child-care schedules, paying exorbitant amounts of money to have someone else do what I already knew from personal experience (when I was a teenager, I had to learn child care to help raise my then-baby brother) would be the most important and rewarding job they'd ever have. So we waited until one of us was in a position to stay at home -- and that opportunity arose in 2000-2001, when I decided to step away from my work at MSNBC and try freelance writing from home for a living. Lisa was still at Microsoft, and we'd paid down much of the mortgage on our home, so we had decent revenue and low overhead.
Of course, plans never quite work out the way you envision them. The reality of caring for an infant made me quickly realize that I could no longer do daily freelance work, which entailed running to event scenes and conducting interviews and taking calls at all hours, while caring for a baby who needed regular feedings and naps and constant care outside that. (Try doing a phone interview with a baby in a Bjorn on your chest sometime.) So within a few months I'd shifted gears, focusing on writing books, which I could do evenings and weekends when Lisa was home, and about a year after that, I started blogging, which I found I could do during naptimes and playdates.
As the months and years added up, and I spent days on end at playgrounds, gymnasiums, swimming pools, and in playdates, it became plain that there really is a certain amount of resistance among a lot of people to the concept of stay-at-home daddies. There often was an assumption that I was a divorcee getting to play with my daughter on a custody date. Because I was an older father (I was 44 when she was born) sometimes I was asked if I was her grandfather (I really loved that one, as you can imagine).
And even though a lot of women thought it was neat that a man was being the primary caregiver, there was still a certain amount of resentment directed my way, from a lot of women, over my invasion of what for them was their territory. Some of this was perfectly understandable; when Fiona was a toddler, the topics of conversation among the gathered mothers often veered into various complaints with such bodily functions as breastfeeding and yeast infections and that sort of thing, and I of course was not just utterly incapable of conversing on these matters but felt like I was invading their privacy as well, so I made it a habit to wander off at such moments.
And there were moments -- whispered comments, offhand remarks -- where I was reminded that a lot of people, both men and women, privately viewed stay-at-home daddies as wimps or out-of-work losers. Sort of like Dr. Helen.
Well, all this melted into insignificance in the daily reality of raising a child. It's impossible, I think, to put into words the immensity of the rewards that come with it: you watch them grow in body and spirit, become real little persons with real minds and dreams and desires all their own, and you bond with them in a way that lasts for life and maybe beyond. I've done many good and rewarding things in my life, but none of them -- not even marrying a great woman, or publishing three books, or building up a good blog, all of them great things -- has meant quite as much as being Fiona's daddy. What other people thought, really, hardly mattered at all, because I knew what the score was. Certainly, it never seemed to me that my masculinity might be at stake.
Some of this has to do with how I was raised -- which is to say, in an extremely masculine environment in southern Idaho. I was raised doing things that a lot of people like Glenn Reynolds and Dr. Helen seem to regard as the essence of masculinity: handling guns, hunting, fishing, being a woodsman, learning to be a hunter/provider from the time I was able to talk. I was a capable fisherman by the time I was 8, and I shot and gutted a deer when I was 12.
When I reached working age, I found work that was similarly male-dominated: a farmhand hauling irrigation pipe, a welder/mechanic in a farm-machinery factory, roller and chip-spread operator on a road-construction crew. These jobs put me through college, where I shifted from my blue-collar upbringing to white-collar world.
It's tempting to say that this shift provided me with my first encounter with men who actually were concerned, consciously, about their masculinity, but it would not be true. Certainly, there seemed to be more of them, but I'd been encountering them from my early years too.
I remember camping out with my dad and his buddies during deer-hunting season and encountering these kinds of men then, too. They were always the guys who had to drink the most, carry on the loudest, and make a competition out of everything, especially to see who could shoot the first buck and who got the biggest one. They were the kinds of guys you really hated hunting with, because they were terrible woodsmen and even worse companions; they were the ones who always forgot some critical camp item, and the ones who would accidentally knock your meal into the fire. Mostly, there was always the chance they were going to shoot their own fool heads off if not yours.
I later knew men like this in the working world too. It always seemed like they were also lousy fathers and husbands. They'd whack their kids and their wives, and were usually more interested in going out drinking with the guys than doing anything with their families. They were abusive and boorish louts, and they largely formed the opposite of my notion of what it meant to be a man.
In my world, these kinds of men were half-men, because masculinity was all image and show and petulance to them. Being a real man, the way I was taught by other men -- in that silent way that cannot be communicated in mere words -- meant being a whole man. Men like that -- well, they had their moments and could be fun to be around. But you always knew they were missing something.
So I grew up masculine because I knew in my bones what I was, first of all. I never thought much about it because maleness lies in the doing and the being, not the thinking. I did without thinking things that I now realize many people view as masculine not because they made me manly, but because they were in my nature. I don't fish or camp or kayak now because they're manly, but because they're what I do.
And in all those years of doing "manly" things -- including, I guess I should add, my roustabout bachelor years chasing women, which happens to also be when I learned how to be a good cook and to clean my house (ahem!) -- I've never encountered anything that came close to making me feel like a "real man" as being a daddy. I never felt more manly than in moments like those captured in the top of the post.
Obviously, it was also incredibly fun (and still is). I used to joke with the other mothers at times that this was their great secret: that being the stay-at-home parent was the best job on the planet. Some of them smiled wryly at this.
Certainly, more men ought to be stay-at-home dads because they'd find, like me, that not only are they good at it, but it's the best job they ever had. But I also think we need to encourage more men to become caregivers because it's in the best interest of all of us.
Caring for children teaches us patience and generosity -- forces it upon us, really -- and that makes better men, regardless of what John Wayne or Dr. Helen might say. Masculine men (that is, if your notion of maleness is about strength and drive) also bring a groundedness and confidence to the table that I think nurtures children in ways that women often do not.
Encouraging stay-at-home fatherhood makes for a healthier society in a lot of ways. It makes better men of us because it makes us better fathers. That in turn makes for better-rounded children who are going to be better citizens. It also helps women whose goals might extend beyond family-rearing reach those goals. It makes more equal partners out of us, and I think makes for a stronger marriage.
I suspect, in fact, that part of my being enthralled with the job had to do with its being somewhat special if not unique -- sensing that in many ways, I scored extra points (in the great Parenting Game in the Sky) just for doing it. But this also made me realize that women don't get those extra points. They're expected to do the child-rearing, and so for them the job often loses its specialness, at least insofar as getting some recognition and respect for what they do. It seemed to me that being a stay-at-home mom becomes drudgery for many women, and that is a sad thing, really. Yes, it is hard work, but it's great work.
Raising children -- especially in their first six years -- is something that a sane and healthy society should celebrate as one of its most cherished and celebrated jobs. It's how we shape our future, and that is a task for men and women alike, equally. It's a task to be embraced, not delegated to the back bench, as do so many boorish, insecure men -- the half-men I've known since childhood -- and the women who enable them. Women like Dr. Helen.
Along the way, I hope, we'll learn to discard foolish old notions of masculinity -- the kind you get in half-baked reactionary books and articles, as though reading such things could actually make a man out of you -- that have more to do with insensate petulance and self-absorption than with being a real, whole man.
And it will be the children themselves who show us how.
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Not to mention making better daughters and sons. Thanks for a beautiful post.
2?
Hi David!
Excellent piece, David!
I, too, was a stay-at-home dad during my daughters toddler years, and am now, during her teen years, a single dad. I concur with you completely. Nothing else I’ve done in my life (and, not to blow my horn too loud, I’ve done quite a lot) has given me more satisfaction, joy, and sense of accomplishment. Despite the crap that some people threw my way about it.
What a wonderful essay.
Totally out of place on a foul-mouthed fem-blog, but wonderful just the same. *g*
Thank you, David.
Republicans who talk tough against homosexuality as a way to prove masculinity prove something else entirely.
Caring for children is not a matter of gender.
Look at THESE Manly Men!
Great post David, I think I will call up my Dad.
(Teddy, I love the laughter you bring to my life)
David and the CatBus!
What a treat this is!
Here’s a MANLY Republican.
I’m a stay-at-home dad, as well, doubly so with my son and a hanai son! My son is medically home-schooled due to being BP 1, and, I’m paid by the state to take care of a troubled teen’s son, whom I’ve known since the womb!!! *g*
I’m married to the quintessential Mr. Mom, and he’s the manliest man I know. Right Mr. LS? I know you’re out there lurkin’ ;>
Here’s another MANLY specimen. In fact he was so MANLY he had overnight sleepovers at the White House. (Where only the MANLY roam.)
Albert Fall: One of the things I meant to point out more explicitly is that people who promote these notions of masculinity are telling us more about themselves than they think. And it ain’t pretty.
None More MANLY Than These Two!
Are they MANLY enough?
Wonderful post David. The hunting buddy angle really brings it home for this woodsman.
I wonder if I spotlight this to Tweety if he would even get the irony?
Thank you, David. A delight to read and full of promise. This is so terrific for children. I had a Dad who loved to take his girls to the Rose Garden, on the Merry-Go-Round, take them to dancing school and participate where other dad’s just wouldn’t. He wasn’t a hunter - couldn’t stand to see an animal suffer.
As a daughter of such a man it made a difference to me as well as my sister. Macho isn’t the criteria we use to measure a man but rather sensitivity, encouragement, a reader, being well informed, self-motivated, ethics and putting others first. To this day she and I talk about how fortunate we were to have this man as our Dad. What are the odds of this ever happening again?
A MANLY Man of God (God being REAL Manly, in spite of that Gay Son of his)
I’m not gay.
But I’ll camp out and hang out with anyone.
Isn’t this post about children?
Speaking of two stud muffins, I’m watching Gregory and Turd Blossom on MTP, it’s aired in the PM here in the isles! Any word on the Dem debate???
Nothing MANLY about these two I’m afraid
Or maybe it’s just the dog.
A MANLY Pope — and his not so manly boyfriend
I have noticed a bunch of commercials in the last couple of years, that depict the “man of the house” as an idiot. Hon….why is the toilet plugged up…are your socks in there??? Hon…Hon…Hon…(Jeez, STFU already lady) and get a life.
The latest “nag ad” I’ve seen is the woman who berates her husband (who clearly has a hearing defiency) for listening to the teevee too loudly, and she yells at him, while she’s talking on the phone with a friend or something. WTF is that? That is a “women are biatches” kind of ad, and the men they are married to are stupid victims…
This shows up in all shapes and forms.
Who says John Travolta isn’t MANLY?
That’s a MANLY kiss — isn’t it?
David Neiwert @ 16
One of the hidden mysteries of writing is that the author, regardless of the subject or objectivity, self-reveals. We always know more about the writer than his/her subject.
Quaker Girl: Well, I don’t hunt anymore either, and for at least partially the same reason as your father (though I had to experience it to learn it). The other part has to do with predominance of yahoos in the woods these days. It’s just not safe.
I am an older first time father too. My son was born last June. I was 46. My wife and I do all our own child care. We will not subject our son to day care. We enjoy him very much and we juggle our schedules accordingly. I was asked if I were my son’s grandfather too!
You are 100 percent correct. The significance of traditional societal roles should be superceded by what works best. Manliness cannot be learned from winger books. Any man that is concerned about how manly he appears to others has got bigger problems than he realizes.
The MANLY Broadway Show Queen — and “Torchwood” superstar
My husband is a kind and helpful man, adored by our three daughters, who have lamented the fact that they couldn’t find anyone like him. He is easy to live with too, which I think is hardly ever mentioned by the experts on manliness. Thanks for a great post, David. Fiona too will look for someone like you and probably have to settle for someone not quite as wonderful.
Cut from the MANLY “High School Musical 2″
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAXPGtpZvQI
And I loik it too!
Manly dad! Congratulations. You’re going to see lots of changes coming up soon with little Fiona. It just keeps getting better as little girls grow up. (Age 15-17 is a test, however!)
Wingers only wish they were manly.
Our MANLIEST author — and friend.
hackworth @ 30
Well said…!!! ;-)
A MANLY Handshake
NOT Manly
Manley-men, holding hands:
http://politicalhumor.about.co.....hhands.htm
David - thank you not just for what you say about masculinity but also about parenting. It is a wonderful job and more men *and* women should have the chance to do it full time. I was lucky to be in a position when my two were young (now 28 and 21) to be at home with them for several years and for all the ups and downs, it was a blessing - for them and for me.
Loo Hoo. @ 35
Been There, Done That…! Currently there, too!!! *g*
Children need love.
I realize the attributes of a ‘man’ which go into my definition of what it means to be a man, which I define myself. I am a man. And I know it.
Spudboy, I am the MANLIEST of Men. The better part of my 60 years has been spent doing the MANLIEST thing of all –
Making love to other men.
And each and every one of them was MANLY!!!!
A few years ago my husband and I and our two kids and his mom were out eating breakfast on a Saturday morning. Next to our table was a group of 10 or so guys, ostentatiously praying and yacking it up–a Promise Keepers meeting. One of them came over and tried to proselytize my husband to join them. He said, “excuse me, I’m actually WITH my family, I don’t need a group to figure out how to do that.”
Manley men singing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMsnqQHOwFg
David Ehrenstein @ 46
David Ehrenstein @ 46
David Ehrenstein @ 46
707
The idea that it is not a masculine thing to do just seems absurd and incomprehensible to me.
raising children is not masculine or feminine…its human.
.
Great post! You said a lot of truths in it.
LS @ 48
Heh, the epitome of manliness…!!!
Great post - with you 100%. I was a single Dad for several years and now married with two more little ones. My wife stays home with the kids and is now getting back to work a bit (freelance writing 2 days a week wherever there is WiFi). One of the many reasons I wish that there was more income equality between the sexes is that if my wife could earn what I do, the decision of who would stay home would be based on something other than simple economics. Nonetheless, I know that one of the toughest, most rewarding, least appreciated jobs is the stay-at-home childrearer - to say that shooting a deer makes someone tough & manly seems ludicrous by comparison…
David Ehrenstein @ 27
Is that his jogging partner from when he lived at Spruce Creek Fly-In or is that the waiter from the restaurant across the street from the gym in LA? Will John John go out like Merv?
David E, you crack me up. Manly is as manly does, n’est c’est pas?
No one will go out like Merv. Few have THAT much money.
I didn’t want to be a barber anyway.
I wanted to be a lumberjack!
Leaping from tree to tree as they float down the mighty rivers of British Columbia… The Fir! The Larch! The Redwood! The mighty Scots Pine! The plucky little Aspen! The great limping rude tree of Nigeria! With my best gal by my side, we’d sing, SING…
Oh, I’m a lumberjack, and I’m okay
I sleep all night and I work all day
Mounties: He’s a lumberjack, and he’s okay
He sleeps all night and he works all day
I cut down trees, I eat my lunch
I go to the lavatory
On Wednesdays I go shoppin’
And have buttered scones for tea
Mounties: He cuts down trees, he eats his lunch
He goes to the lavatory
On Wednesdays he goes shoppin’
And has buttered scones for tea
All: He’s a lumberjack, and he’s okay
He sleeps all night and he works all day
I cut down trees, I skip and jump
I like to press wild flowers
I put on women’s clothing
And hang around in bars
Mounties: He cuts down trees, he skips and jumps
He likes to press wild flowers
He puts on women’s clothing
And hangs around in bars?!
(A brief, confused pause)
All: …He’s a lumberjack, and he’s okay
He sleeps all night and he works all day
I cut down trees, I wear high heels
Suspenders and a bra
I wish I’d been a girlie
Just like my dear papa
Mounties: He cuts down trees, he wears… high heels?
Suspenders… and a bra?!
Wants to be a girlie?!
Poofter! Bloody poofter!
Pinko commie fairy faggot…
HIS GIRL: Oh, Bevis! And I thought you were so RUGGED!!
(footsteps, door slams)
He’s a lumberjack, and he’s okay
He sleeps all night and he works all day
He’s a lumberjack, and he’s okaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay…
Sleeps all night and he works all day!
My daughter is the Princess. She is my existence. And God help anybody who tries to harm her. I will go all the way to protect her.
David at 26
I am glad you have found happiness.
I am still concerned about children who cannot find happiness because they are abused physically or psychologically.
I’m a bit concerned about posting photos of gay Republicans and suggesting they’re not manly on account of their sexuality. Would Mr Ehrenstein like to explain why he thinks being gay makes, for instance, Jeff Gannon less manly?
David, thanks for sharing!
I’m always on the look out for positive male role models for the kids. Sometimes hard to find.
Dr. Zen: Trust me, he doesn’t.
And Speaking of Merv!
That’s for him and his very good friend Karl Rove to explain.
I had to go visit a friend in the hospital this mornign so I didn’t catch Rove’s Sunday Talk Show appearances. I imagine he was deluged with questions about Jeff Gannon’s overnight White House stays, right?
Manley Daniel..sigh:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yJv8y75Iwk
My daughter is grown now. What I wouldn’t give to go back and spend just one night holding her in my arms and walking and singing her to sleep when she was a baby.
Brief De-Lurking by Al the Spook:
The stuffed toy that is used as the photo for this excellent post is called a Neko-Bus (cat bus in japanese.) It is from what I consider to be the most wonderful video animation for children and adults a like ever made, My Neighbor Totoro by Hiyao Miazaki. It is distributed by Disney here in the US of A and come both subtitled and dubbed into various languages.
Can’t reccommend it highly enough.
It’s one thing for adults to be whoever they are sexually.
It’s another for an adult to force his or her sexual orientation or practices upon a child.
The notion that childrearing is a feminine responsibility is a fairly recent one. Until the Industrial Revolution, that job was usually left primarily to fathers. Instahack probably considers the Founders pussies… it would fit his tissue-deep understanding of history.
My woman, Lahoma, knows I’m her man. End of story.
Some enchanted Manley:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....mp;search=
What more manly thing is there to do, especially as a father, is to cuddle, comfort, play, discipline, teach, and support your child or children? None. Walking into their house on my son-in-law’s birthday two weeks ago, where did I find him? In the kitchen doing some dishes BY HAND! complete with suds & all. When he finished, he came in, scooped up the 20-month-old cuddled her then held her upside by her feet while she squealed. He has been the consummate father. He also has a full-time job as a painter, a VIRILE if not MANLY job. ;) His whole thing - to be the best father possible. To me he is. I tell him as well. I’ve even written it down so he has proof I’ve said it.
My own father cooked, cleaned, washed clothes, washed dishes in between milking in the morning and at night.
As the ultimate slap in the face to the likes of wanking Glenn Greenwald and his lost ilk, my own nephew (little Repub that he is) does all and not because they have 2-month-old twins, but he was expected to as a kid and he’s anal as hell.
I never thought about my father being “manly” or anything else. He was a doctor and every Saturday morning, he’d take me along with him to visit his patients in the hospital. And I knew that my job was to chat them up and distract them so that he could examine their eyes (he would have done a cateract extraction on them). He made me feel I was doing an important job and it gave me the only private time with him that I was able, as a little kid, to get. When I was older, he’d take me with him to fish for blues off the beaches at Block Island and I would help him haul in huge fish with wicked teeth and we’d walk back to the car together. I never thought of my father as “manly” or not - I always thought he was special because he wanted me to be with him and share his experiences. He sent my mom to college during the 1950s and encouraged her to go to grad school and teach in a college. And when he had a chance to leave our area and open a practice someplace else, he would not leave because that would interfere with my mother’s teaching career. So, as far as men go, I always thought of my father as a pretty special guy.
LOL
Brave Manley:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....mp;search=
Jonathan #60
It’s another for an adult to force his or her sexual orientation or practices upon a child.”
I couldn’t agree more. I was force-fed heterosexuality from the nanosecond of my birth (February 18, 1947)
Luckily in 1954 my unwitting mother took me to a matinee screening of Kismet at the Roxy and right in the middle of Dolores Gray’s “Not Since Ninevah” number I Went Gay!
There are some who think the hobby-horse cowboy in the WH is a “man”.
Steve-AR @ 67
Gun safety is not high on their list of priorities, ask Deadeye Dick, good thing they were only huntin’ fowl…!!! ;-)
My father was widowed at a very young age, so he was single Dad for ahwile. He had a manly man job, fighter pilot, and still managed to be a very caring (if unconventional) Dad to me.
He was a complete softy and not at all concerned with what appeared masculine or not.
It’s funny, though. I remember a few jerk fathers on the military bases I grew up on, and without fail, they were all chest thumpers, yelling things like “Once a Marine, always a Marine” stuff. Funny, few of them were actual vets like my father….
And say what you will about Tom Cruise, he knows what it takes to look MANLY.
the calculus of child rearing is simple: the more of yourself you put into your children, the greater the personal reward. And the multiplier of what you put in verses what you get out is enormous in favor of what you get out of child rearing. In some sense, it can be considered selfish considering the indescrible joy and satisfaction you get out putting time, effort, and love into your children.
.
Loo Hoo. @ 35
I’ve had 2 boys (now 26 and 15). Boys go through a sneaky rebellious phase around 9 to 11. If you keep ‘em honest through that, you’re OK, they’ll be fine. Girls don’t rebel until 15 to 17, and then it can be like a bomb going off.
Gay men can be quite manly or masculine. They can make great dads. So can straight men. It’s jerks and men who are unwilling to look at themselves who make lousy dads.
Sorry, David E. I think Mr. Cruise looks at his most manly when he is cuddling his daughter. That’s one manly Dad.
AnnieW @ #79
The way I heard it was “Once a Marine, always a Bottom.”
Good gracious! The air is blue with testosterone and manly men getting in touch with their foul-mouthed fem fringe fanatic side (y’all are overlooking the fringe fanatic part of the insult - those are two great words, and I’m going to include them).
It’s really so simple: when adults can be who they are without pressure to conform to norms and role expectations, good things happen. In this case, actively loving and raising children and contributing to the health and wellbeing of families. Hmmmm - not a mention of gender, duties and sexual orientation - and still G rated.
GordonM @ 80
I am living with a 13 yr old boy and a 15 yr old girl. Bombs away!
Toby Wollin @ #83
Are you sure that child is his?
She looks an awful lot like Katie’s last boyfriend.
AnnieW @ 78
As an Army NCO, I steered away from the chest thumpers, I preferred the more rational bunch…!!!
Among the UNMANLY:Throws a ball like a GUUUURRRRL!!!
David Ehrenstein @ 75
I couldn’t agree more. I was force-fed heterosexuality from the nanosecond of my birth (February 18, 1947)
Luckily in 1954 my unwitting mother took me to a matinee screening of Kismet at the Roxy and right in the middle of Dolores Gray’s “Not Since Ninevah” number I Went Gay!
David,
My defining moment came when I was 10.
A group of boys in my neighborhood decided to ambush an 11-year-old girl and kiss her.
The ambush was carried out, and one of the boys in my pack pinned the girl against a garage door and kissed her.
Yes, I know it’s like rape.
But ever since, I’ve wondered what it would have been like to be that boy.
MY kind of MANLY
David Ehrenstein @ 89
The fems are going to come after you!!!!!
with pitchforks.
nuncamas @ 47
707 !!!
David - to my thinking, I think it doesn’t matter whether or not who the father of that little girl is (though from the way he holds her and frankly, how she deals with him..as well as her face from the nose up leads me to believe that Mr. Cruise is indeed Suri’s father). It is how he behaves with her that counts and every picture I have seen of them together shows him to be a loving and caring father. My two cents.
David,
Thanks for this. I had my third at 48 and became Mr. Mom. My relationship with this child is the most important to me. Thanks for giving voice to us masculine caregivers.
Toby Wollin @ 94
Maybe the “powers that be” went after him because of his Scientology. I don’t trust they way the media frames anything.
That’s a very Jean Genet moment, Jonathan.
Genet said as a youth he saw another go by on a bicycle and was suddenly caught between “wanting to BE than boy and wanting to HAVE that boy.”
N=1 @ 84
*Gasp* …the two shall meet and commune…!!! Oooohhhmmmm…!!! Ain’t the Lake, Grand??? 8-)
My memories make them the majority, but that was years ago. My father and his buddies were pretty low key.
He would have fit in one of David’s pics of manly men tho