I can see that this is only going to get worse, with people like Bonnie Erbe trying to promote themselves as MSM "concern trolls" while clubbing the very female bloggers they purport to be supporting over the head.
Thanks so much, Bonnie. Next time let's just not and say we did, okay?
Reader Lauren forwarded me this:
MEDIA APPEARANCE: WIMN's Jennifer L. Pozner on PBS's "To The Contrary with
Bonnie Erbe" this weekend (check your local listings for airtimes)Jennifer L. Pozner, Executive Director of Women In Media & News, will be
appearing this weekend on "To The Contrary with Bonnie Erbe," PBS's women's
news and public affairs debate show. Topics covered on the half hour program
will include:- in light of the overwhelmingly white and male participation at YearlyKos,
the recent convention of progressive bloggers, is the blogosphere
replicating the old boys club as a new boys network online?- new census data shows that people of color are the majority in one out of
ten U.S. districts, and anti-immigration sentiment is rearing its head in
many regions...- women are 75% of "sandwich caregivers" (providing health, mental health
and day to day care for both children and the eldery simultaneously) and the
financial, medical and emotional toll it takes is extreme...Guests will include:
1. Jennifer L. Pozner, Women In Media & News2. Conservative commentator Tara Setmayer
3. US News and World Report's Dr. Bernadine Healy
4. Former National Women's Political Caucus chair Irene Natividad
What do I look like, a friggin' lab rat who needs someone to speak for me? Some special needs child whose hand needs to be held gently while Those Who Know Better patiently explain what my world is like? I don't know how you have a media panel on women in the blogosphere with no actual woman bloggers, and yet they do.
I think Adele Stan has a much better handle on where the sexism that women in the blogosphere face is coming from:
The problem stems from the fact that power begets power that resembles itself. White, male bloggers receive institutional support in ways that non-whites and women do not, be it in the form of funding, linking, quoting or bookings on political talk shows. The moment that the middle-aged white men who hold the power and the purse strings of progressive politics decide it's a priority to see the movement's values reflected in the attributes of its anointed messengers, the problem will cease to exist.
Thanks so much, Bonnie, for being part of the problem. People who live in glass houses should fuck in the basement. (And BTW, it's not an "us against them" situation. There aren't nearly enough bloggers on TV period, male or female, especially when compared to the ubiquity of the "very serious people" who brought you the War in Iraq. It was great to see Markos on MTP this morning.)
The sexism that makes it more difficult for women to keep a blog going does not come from Markos or Duncan or Stoller or other "big boys" of the blogosphere that these analysts are too ignorant to name (but do so by implication). It was Jose Vargas in his Washington Post article who called FDL "a blog about women's issues," which just may be the most patronizing thing aimed at us in this particular discussion. And Vargas is actually someone who is trying to understand what's going on. He (and others) are being fed a bunch of junk by people who aren't bloggers and should really take a look at what their own organizations are doing to promote women in the blogosphere before firing arrows into our backs.
Is your organization taking out advertising on women's blogs? Because the sexism we face from the Blogads organization is the worst I've encountered in my life and probably the biggest single challenge to keeping this blog going. Are you honoring women bloggers, promoting their blogs to your membership? Are you thinking twice about clubbing the only messaging machine that the left has by feeding into this kind of destructive, patronizing bullshit? Do you really know what it's like to run a blog and post every day as your job, and if you don't, do you think you might ought to defer on the subject to somebody who does rather than running your mouth about something you obviously don't know much about? And through your insinuations, are you slyly suggesting that we built this blog not on merit but via "something else?" (Wink-wink nudge-nudge know what I mean, hey Amato, BTW man, you were great).
Garance Franke-Ruta writes about a primary example of the "institutional bias" towards men that makes it more difficult for women to keep the doors open (and yet somehow we do). When Barak Obama had a one-on-one with bloggers at Yearly Kos, there were 20-25 people attending and only one -- Ali Savino, who I like a great deal and who is really smart but not a blogger -- was a woman. (Note: I spoke with Arianna, who said that a woman from the Huffington Post was also in attendance.) [Update: Garance now says there was only one woman there, from the Huffington Post, and another attendee puts the count more reliably at 10-12.] Now I don't think for a minute that the Obama people sat down and said "let's not invite any women." What they were obviously going for, based on Garance's information, were wonky, "serious" bloggers like Matt Yglesias and Ezra Klein. Which is fine, they can invite whoever they want, but the fact that this group was almost exclusively men is more reflective of the fact that those "serious" institutions are comprised mostly of men. And those people do get support in a way that we women in the blogosphere absolutely do not. Much like advertisers who think we're not "serious," the organizations that support, promote and sustain men -- which are completely external to the blogosphere -- are a much bigger problem than Duncan or Markos's linking habits.
Until someone shows me proof that "men link only to men" in the liberal blogoshere, all I have to go by is our Technorati ranking (total number of links), which says we have more links than Atrios or AmericaBlog where the traffic is often higher. We're at 195. Digby is at 387, much higher relative to her traffic than many male bloggers. Arianna's is, of course, is the most linked blog in the political blogosphere, left or right, at #5 on Technorati. Believe me, when your advertising revenues are dependent on what that traffic is, you're pretty cognizant of who is and isn't linking to you, and when we discuss things amongst ourselves the whole "boys don't link to me" is not where the problem is coming from.
I contacted Ellen Goodman of the Boston Globe and asked her for information on who generated the vague statistics she quoted in her article, but so far have not had any success at tracking this study down. You would think it was inscribed in tablets of stone though the way this crap is being pimped throughout the MSM.
Next time, ask a woman who actually blogs, okay?
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hmm
So common sense is out the window, and plain facts need not be examined.
argosfalcon @ 2
Common sense is one of the most uncommon of human attributes…
Now that PBS has become largely another propaganda tool for the admin, one wonders where this is another way of discrediting the progressive blogs, by insisting they are out of touch with local citizens, women and minorities. Remember the rethug mantra, when they say something “isn’t” it really means not only that it “is” but that they are very nervous about the very “isness” of it.
Are there any sandwiches that you specialize in Jane?
You are right on target to attack this crap as strongly as possible, before it gets a toe hold and becomes the conventional wisdom. Let’s all shout it out and call them on this kind of nonsense each and every time they try it.
To me this is yet another indication of how scared the “serious” media types are. Keep up the good work, Jane. ATTACK, ATTACK, ATTACK!!!
Yes, the only reason I found this blog was to me in dealing with issues of water retention and bikini waxing.
I am so tired of the lamestream media.
Well, it does help push the oft repeated liberal/Democrat bashing theme used to rope in Blacks and Latinos women into the Republic sphere of thought.
“Democrats only want your vote, not your voice.”
-GSD
argosfalcon @ 2
Welcome to American journalism in the 21st Century.
Asking a woman who blogs would allow facts and first-person experience to intrude on the established narrative. Ellen Goodman’s and Bonnie Erbe’s paychecks depend on the established narrative, not facts or first-person viewpoints.
before i read anyone i read jane
the lake begat think progress, begat raw story, begat digby, begat kos
before i found firedog i thought i was the only person writing about corporate media, the liberal media myth, the fact that the democrats are the real patriots, the real supporters of our military, the real economic concervatives, the real social concervatives
i thought i was the only person that saw through the administration
i link to the lake more then any other blog and always have
i am amazed anyone has the nerve to call blogging an old boys club
If the MSM or Right really thinks the Liberal KOS community is mostly Middle Aged White Men, they must be terrified! I think they’d love to depict it as mostly women & gays and minorities, wouldn’t they?
‘Tis a puzzlement.
perris @ 10
As am I. As I stated here not too long ago, my “blogosphere” is dominated by female writers. They seem to be more interested in having a community, or at least a conversation.
You go, Jane!
What a buncha maroons.
On the internet nobody’s supposed to know you’re a dog.
I’ve always been drawn to blogs based on the content and quality of writing. And you know, at least 50% of the blogs I visit are dominated by women writers. Do I look specifically for female writing? No. Do I care who’s writing? No. I care about what’s being written.
It’s bizarre to see the insular corporate media just make up shit about the blogosphere, and then drop it onto people with gravitas as if it were fact-based. And then to see the few women in the media circles being the biggest pushers of the stupidity is even more bizarre. This is so Alice in Wonderland.
As I said last time, corporate media seems happy to acknowledge blogging is dominated by middle-aged white guys now. Six months ago it was all pimply teenagers. Clearly the initial caricature didn’t work anymore, so now they’ve moved on to the “old white guys” and “no women” lie in a new attempt to marginalize the medium of blogging. Unfortunately for the DC power elite blogging is a medium where facts boil to the surface, stupidity lives eternally and the participants have a way to make their own case.
Fozzetti @ 11
No they want to attack the strength. So they claim there is no diversity and thus label the whole movement a pack of hypocrites.
-GSD
Geez, Jane, you’re not pissed or anything, are you? Why don’t you tell us how you really feel? I would almost call that more than a rant, maybe a screed! Can’t say I blame you though. With women like you, Christy, Emptywheel, Digby, Phoenix Woman, et al, I can’t say I blame you a bit!
As I said last time, corporate media seems happy to acknowledge blogging is dominated by middle-aged white guys now. Six months ago it was all pimply teenagers.
They are trying to define the blogs.
Bam, pow, biff.
-GSD
(If there were no woman bloggers I would have a great deal more free time every day.)
“The Big Boys of Blogging don’t link to the ladies” is the same warped “hypocrite!” charge TradMed levels at John Edwards for not really caring about poor people since he’s rich. First of all, it’s not true. Secondly, even if it were true, it still wouldn’t be hypocritical. Third, it’s still not true.
Which makes it the perfect TradMed narrative: untrue; wrong even if true; and — oh, yeah! — untrue. Expect to see a great deal more of this.
It sounds like a Rovian rumor mill type of thing to subtly demonize and create insecurity in corporation advertising support for whatever they can label as negative about any blog…one could be all women, one could be too gay…one could be too radical…one could be too conspiratorial; all of which likely to ultimately fail and be money losers.
I write a science blog and it has been tough to get taken seriously. If you think women writing about politics have been marginalized by the Goodmans of the world, check out the world of females who blog about science. We’re here, but we don’t near the encouragement or attention that male bloggers (some of whom are not as good as the females) get. Sometimes I wonder why I bother… it’s like writing in a echo chamber sometimes.
Keep on keepin’ on. OilFieldGuy posted a link that lead me to this. Hope it is’nt to early for an OT. This will be this libriarians last entry. http://www.bl.uk/iraqdiary07.html
GSD: Exactly what I was implying: when they saw (or thought they saw) the makeup of the Liberal blogging community (of course they are wrong), they immediately attacked it.
dejah @ 22
If we could ever have the same ratio of women to men as there are currently men to women in government, all of this would turn around in a hurry.
Richmond @ 4
That’s right. I think that is their angle. The MSM which includes PBS and especially NPR are very worried about the liberal blogs contribution to their irrelevancy. PBS/NPR sold their souls to the Devil. They continue to dance his jig.
As a liberal NPR listener, I have been disgusted with their right wing bandwagon reporting the past eight years. The real deal is here at FDL, Digby, Raw Story, Americablog and links found herein to the real news. And the commenters at FDL are unsurpassed!
Jane, the “Technorati ranking” link points to this article. Was that deliberate?
Here’s how to contact “To The Contrary”:
Link
or
alternate link
perris @ 10
Wow! Wish i had said that. thanks, perris, for saying it for me.
a blog about “women’s issues?” Pass the crack-pipe, please. I need to get baked, too!
Best example of a white guy blog on political steroids is “Power Line,” which is based in my home town. Three conservative Dartmouth dudes (a long time ago), unrepentant Bush Republicans, playing Big Daddy Pontificator to the conservative masses.
Their site meter shows a readership roughly equivalent to FDL’s, but their site visits average .01. Tres amusant.
Can’t help but think that some of this criticism is Projection 101 from the party of Big Daddy Knows What’s Best for You.
Republicons are taking yet another run at framing an issue, and because they control most of the traditional media venues (and because Dems do crappola with framing), they’re having some success with it. Again. Already. Still. Grrrr.
Compound F @ 30
Careful. Next, this will be a blog about “drug abuse issues”.
Cujo359 @ 27
Actually it links to another article with the same graphic, but it has listed the technorati rankings of the top blogs.
I tried to write something meaningful but I have no words to prod the brain dead into life, about this.
You’d think … but then again that would be asking too much … that the woman run blog that was profiled on page one of the NYT for brilliant coverage of the Libby trial might have made it into their consciousness.
Ann in AZ @ 18
I’m pretty pissed. A lot of people collaborated with this. I don’t as a rule publicly take aim at other liberals even when they aim at me, it’s divisive and counter-productive to a movement that’s taking hits on all sides as it is. But I’m about an inch and a half from calling people out and telling them to knock it the fuck off.
Stop being a useful idiot.
Conservative commentator Tara Setmayer
The wingnuttiest of them all. She was on Bill Maher once and she said that Health Insurance is not a right but something people should have to earn, to a booing audience.
Siun @ 35
What’s the song? “Momentary Lapse Of Reason?” Just a burp in the daily annals of the news business that can’t disrupt the corporate meme.
Jane Hamsher @ 33
And a similar title. Must learn to read more carefully. Thanks.
Invisible but “Spotlighted.”
this anti-women bias in the blogosphere meme is nonsense. Collaterally, any attempt to force greater women exposure in the blogopshere in an affirmative action type activity would be contrary to the ad hoc, ‘follow-your-interests’ nature of the blogosphere.
Ellen Goodman’s recent whiny editorial about not enough women in the blogosphere was bullshit.
.
Sondheim put it best in a song famously cut from Anyone Can Whistle :
“CORA:
Cherchez la femme.
There’s always a woman
To spoil the illusion,
The rotten banana
That ruins the bunch.
There’s always a woman
Who causes confusion.
There’s nothing as low as a woman.
We must lunch.
FAY:
Love to.
CORA:
Noonish?
FAY:
Tomorrow.
CORA:
Today.
FAY:
My place?
CORA:
Mine.
FAY:
There’s always a woman,
The one disappointment.
The note that goes sour
And gums up the tune,
The ant at the picnic,
The fly in the ointment.
There’s nothing so slow as a woman.
Ring me soon!
CORA:
Love to.
FAY:
‘Voir.
CORA:
Leaving?
FAY:
I thought…
CORA:
I know.
FAY:
I tried.
BOTH:
It’s always a woman,
The counterfeit check,
FAY:
The snake in the woodpile,
CORA:
The pain in the neck.
BOTH:
The sand in the oyster
That isn’t a pearl.
There’s nothing as low as a woman…
Darling girl.
CORA:
Pet!
FAY:
Lamb!
CORA:
Dove!
FAY:
Fish.
CORA:
The run in the stocking,
The snag in the zipper,
The weather in London,
The water in France.
It’s always a woman.
It’s Jacqueline the Ripper.
There’s nothing as low as a woman.
Shall we dance?
FAY:
Waltz?
CORA:
Rhumba?
FAY:
Cancan?
CORA:
Tango?
FAY:
Schottische?
CORA:
Gavotte?
FAY:
Cha-cha?
CORA:
Tap?
FAY:
Bolero?
CORA:
Polka?
FAY:
Bridge?
CORA:
Two hearts.
FAY:
Three clubs.
CORA:
I pass.
FAY:
There’s always a woman,
A crimp in the writing,
The hole in the sidewalk,
The gum on the shoe.
She almost looks human-
It must be the lighting.
Whatever it is, it’s a woman.
How are you?
CORA:
Fine.
FAY:
Pity.
BOTH:
It’s always a woman,
FAY:
The hand in the hill,
CORA:
The five dollar diamond,
FAY:
the three-dollar bill.
BOTH:
A genius for trickery
That’s second to none.
There’s nothing as low as a woman.
Isn’t this fun?
CORA:
Lovely.
FAY:
Charming.
CORA:
Delicious.
FAY:
Stunning.
CORA:
Fabulous.
FAY:
Gorgeous.
BOTH:
Exquisite.
CORA, FAY (Alternately):
A knife would be perfect-
A gun would be perfect-
It’s quick and it’s quiet.
At least I could try it.
I hear they do wonders
And you can do wonders
With poisonous gas.
With silvers of glass,
There’s always the quarry-
There’s always curare-
She’d never be found.
I have some around.
A noose is efficient-
Bamboo is efficient-
She won’t make a sound.
As long as it’s ground.
Whatever will do it,
Whatever will do it,
If anything will.
If anything will.
BOTH:
There’s nothing as low as a woman.
CORA:
Sneak.
FAY:
Thief.
CORA:
Cheat.
FAY:
Crook.
CORA:
Frump.
FAY:
Fake.
CORA:
Bore.
FAY:
Bag.
CORA:
Leech.
FAY:
Crone.
CORA:
Witch.
FAY:
Ghoul.
BOTH:
Police!
Shoot to kill”
zoot @ 41
Contact her and tell her that.
Siun @ 35
But the Libby trial was a “woman’s issue” wasn’t it?
ellengoodman@globe.com
Siun @ 35
You’d think.
Jane Hamsher @ 36
Well, Jane, the good news is, I think you just did! Good on you!
TeddySanFran @ 44
That and the 2006 Connecticut Senate race…really, this whole business is nonsense on so many levels that you’d have to pay a geologist to sort out the stratigraphy.
The SCLM, as Eric Alterman calls them, are so nervous and scared that the public will realize what frauds they are that they have mounted this attack on bloggers. The SCLM do not attack the wingnut bloggers because there is no threat nor power there. The SCLM is attacking the wingnuts by implication. If the SCLM can neutralize or destroy the progressive (liberal) bloggers and the wingnuts get washed away at the same time there won’t be any crying by anyone, including the wingnut bloggers. After all, the SCLM can’t limit the answers and content of the retorts to their house pundits, nor the news analyses that are posted.
The SCLM, therefore, is trying desperately to apply a label that will stick. The problem is that too many liberal bloggers are too intelligent and well educated and write too well to be easily ignored or demonized. The people who are supposed to be liberal pundits are being exposed as self-proclaimed with no real good credibility.
Should PBS have had a panel with actual women bloggers? Of course, but then they would not have been able to peddle their nonsense unless the only women were compliant neocon groupies.
BearCountry @ 49
Any chance of getting Moyers to look at this issue? A greater public broadcasting presence there is not. And it’s a hot issue, yes?
Hi there,
Just FYI, I updated my blog item after publication. Ali Savino was not there; the only woman there was a woman from the Huffington Post and one of the other attendees was confused as to which young blonde female blogger she was and mistakenly named her as Ali. I don’t think they look much alike, myself.
Also, the Obama campaign did invite some other female bloggers, but only one showed up.
See:
http://thegarance.com/archives/595
and
http://thegarance.com/archives/598
BearCountry @ 49
Hmmm. Malkin, Althouse, and who else?
Jane Hamsher @ 36
I’m pissed too. You are one of my “everyday heros”…go get ‘em!
Funny, I thought I came here because it was the best site to get quality information and analysis on the Plame betrayal and the subsequent Libby prosecution. I had no idea that the reason I was drawn to this blog was because it was about “female issues”, so nice so these folks to tell me this, otherwise I would have continued in my misperception that I came here for solid political analysis and legal analysis on an issue of a fundamental national/international security nature.
Good for you Jane in writing this, especially since in my experience most of the really solid American political writers online that I have enjoyed were women, perhaps because instead of being in thrall to testosterone and macho posing they were more interested in substantive thinking. Whatever the reasons why this is I find the idea that women are not in the same class as male bloggers in the progressive blogosphere incredibly offensive as well as flat out wrong.
jane and christy, as far as i can see, the two most influential people in all of blogdom
this includes kos as far as I can see, the commentors here are quite active
the lake speaks on behalf of America, not on behalf of bloggers or liberals, on behalf of the vast majority of Americans
You “guys” have one of the BEST blogs out there. THE BEST when it comes to Plame/Libby.
1. I’m a little confused. Are Ms. Goodman & Erbe considered to be “liberal”?
2. What does “SCLM” mean?
3. Ok, I understand that Goodman & Erbe have misreported a matter. So….fight back? Perhaps research their other writings and shows to demonstrate on-going, continuing inaccuracies in a host of other matters? Or, are these stories on blog demographics more of an abberation for these 2 women?
Ghostman
JH @ 36
Jane, it sucks that people are collaborating: I say call names.
Ghostman @ 57
SCLM=So Called Liberal Media
Garance Franke-Ruta @ 51
So: who was invited and didn’t go? Did they not go because they’d be thought “in the tank” for Obama? And what’s up with secret blogger meetings with presidential candidates anyway? Is this really the new, open, twenty-first century media we want?
dakine01 @ 59
okie dokie. Thank you.
Ghostman
The Erbe-Goodman axis of faulty retrieval irks me a lot. Of the ten blogs I go to and relate to the most:
fdl
next hurrah
daily kos
panda’s thumb
majikthise
tpmmuckraker
raw story
down with tyranny
Huffington Post
hullabaloo
- half are run by women, and many of the most insightful articles at kos and TPMMuckraker (like the wonderful Laura McGann!) are by women. As I said here last week, I’m a fairly gruff and tough Alaskan outdoors male, who cannot thank the women at these sites enough for all I’ve learned from their articles, comments, insights and wisdom.
By the way, Tara Setmayer is actually a Republican Strategist.
Her blogger page:
She has also appeared on many national television shows including Fox News Channel’s The O’Reilly Factor, Hannity & Colmes Show, Fox & Friends, ABC’s 20/20, Politically Incorrect with Bill Maher, HBO’s Real Time with Bill Maher, CNN’s American Morning, Talk Back Live, Newsnight w/Aaron Brown, Paula Zahn, Inside Politics Weekend, CNN International and Anderson Cooper, America’s Black Forum, Black Entertainment Television’s BET Tonight with Tavis Smiley, America’s Voice Youngbloods, and C-SPAN.
Feminizing John Edwards, calling Hillary Clinton tough, sniffing Fred Thompson’s Aqua Velva, ignoring woman bloggers: all part and parcel of TradMed’s sick and twisted relationship with truth, gender, and the American way.
Barbara@50 barbara @ 50
“Spotlight”
Gotta run. Be back later. This blog rules!
What a great post. Hope you pull a rant like that if you can maybe actually get booked on an ‘expert’ teevee panel that discusses blogs someday.
Unfortunately, I think Teddy San Fran and Bear Country and others are correct. Corporate media is basically a fraud now. Their motives are obscure, but revolve around some mix of corporate political positioning, attempts to form mass opinion, and show business. Some futile chase after dream demographics for advertiser dollars, putting on a feel good show to keep them tuned in until the ball game starts, corporate butt kissing so they can be with the inside bigshots for the next round of crony capitalist media give-aways? Who knows exactly what. It aint info and it aint coherent thought, that’s for sure.
My only suggestion is as always, get the jerks to show the URLs on national teevee. The more outrageous the lies, the more important to show the URLs.
I notice that Matt Yglesias (sp?) is featuring food shots again. He has the best food pictures on the internet. Others try, but the color is off, or it looks yucky. So, is Yglesias focusing on women’s issues now? And is he the best women’s blogger out there. And then there were the valuable Gilliard BBQ tips.
Well, it will do no good to argue, the pundits will dig up an old FDL recipe thread and call you a miserable liar and hypocrite. So, only solution is laugh at them (I think the audience is, anyway) and make them show the URL.
puppethead @ 16
I know I came here because of two reasons. The Plame investiagation and the Lamont/HoJo race. Being a former CT resident, I know what a fraud HoJo is. I was glad we didn’t let HoJo get go unchallenged. Was it disappointing? Sure. But we learned our lesson. I love what Jane does here. Ellen Goodman and Bonnie Erbe can go pound sand. Like Pollack and O’Hanlon, none of the four know anything about what they speak of.
Help me here. It seems to me that FDL is more than a Blog. I see lots of sites that are a forum the “owners” and the discussions are more secondary. FDL provides a framework but also fosters this incredible dialogue.
TeddySanFran @ 64
Tweety would crap his pants in the presence of someone like Jane. Better yet, remember that scene from “Gladiator”? The first match in the far off place Russell Crowe has. Where that one guy is so scared that he pisses himself? That guy is Tweety.
I’ve written to Ellen Goodman, whose columns I often like, but not this time! I asked if she might not be a bit threatened…?
Jane on Sam Seder
I’m listening so I dont know if this has been mentioned
Speaking of TV, I watche that Meet the Face show today. First time I watched one o’ them national press talkies in long while.
I think Ford threw some low blows. He pulled an OReilly on supposed anti-Semetic comments on Daily Kos. I think Markos had exactly the correct response -too bad it was almost lost in cross talk.
Ford misrepresented the DLC. After Clinton, its main problem was that its only significant moves were to cave at every challenge. The GOP and corporate media would move the goal posts right several football fields and the DLC would scurry along. Like one of them bugs that keeps futilely doing the same thing over and over if you keep re-arranging its nest.
I also noticed Mr Russert had better things to do today. I will give Ford credit in actually engaging in substantive discussion of actual issues. Both Ford and Kos looked very good compared to the rest of the show. Interesting that the empty gasbag panel and the host rushed away from the interview as fast as they could. It was kind of funny to watch them breathlessly rush on to the boring and tired political horse race stuff. You would think that they might spend a minute discussing the big historical blog-mainstream battle, since they bloviate about its signficiance so much. But, you know, if they discussed the Ford and Markos debate, then they would be forcd to talk about something, rather than nothing. Which was I gues out of any consideration from the get go.
After Ford and Markos, the panelists looked like idiots, IMHO.
They’re just scared. This is what any form of Power does when someone or something challenges or shows even a promise of challenging the status quo.
It’s why they make fun of John Edward’s hair and make sure to make him seem small and weak. If he wins this next election,the Power is gonna have to pay back some of what they stole. Of course they’re gonna try to trash anyone with a populist or progressive message.
It’s why they made fun of Al Gore and made him out to be boring,morose,and all”earth tone-y”. Al may be an”establishment”kinda guy,but he’s not a heartless prick,like most other people in Power.
It’s why they’re trying like hell to pick Hillary for us as the Dem candidate,to make her seem palatable to the masses.Then,that same nasty machine that is STILL blaming Bill for everything will gear up,ramp up and it’ll be Whitewater,Vince Foster and god knows what else all over again. While whoever the GOP nominates gets a pass.
If “the media”can convince the majority of Americans that blogs aren’t to be trusted,for whatever reason,the hope is that people won’t check for themselves. I find myself forgetting sometimes,that even though alot of people read political and news centered blogs,it’s still a really small portion of the country as a whole. This is just another attempt to stifle curiosity and discussion.
Hi Jane,
It would be almost comforting if the phenomenon you are witnessing were sexism. The alternative, which correlates with so much of what we’ve seen, is that this is the standard of reporting that is considered professional among mainstream journalists. And what is the standard? Apparently it’s to say print what the reporters and journalist think the public will be, i.e., to reinforce prejudices, stereotypes, and conventional wisdom, so long as there are no powerful instutions that might be offended.
God, these people piss me off.
wesgpc @ 73
What did you make of it when Ford slipped in the fact that “abortions were reduced” under the Clinton administrations?
Speaking of identity on the internet, I kind of miss when I didn’t know what Digby was. A women? a nerdy guy? a hairy, fat, but intellectual dockworker who could beat up the biggest scariest wingnuts who wanted to fight? A collective? A mysterious force beyond our ken?
Yep. First and last, everyday, and a lot of in between too.
In fact I was just thinking, for the thousandth time, of the great service FDL provides - the top notch analysis, live blogging, commentary, information and community. I was in the dark, groping to find like minded people in a world dominated by Survivor fans before I stumbled on to Jane at HuffPo.
Thank you Jane, you’re a national treasure. Christy, you too.
I was always mystified as to why, during and after the Libby trial, where FDL got copious amounts of publicity for the non-stop liveblogging and general in-depth knowledge of the case, there was no uptick in advertising.
If you’ve got a site that even the MSM admits in print is getting a shitload of traffic - including from the MSM itself - why aren’t advertisers signing on?
wesgpc @ 77
She’s still a mysterious force beyond our ken.
My friend Kathi, who does freelance video tech work, sometimes works on “To The Contrary,” and always comes home ranting afterwards, because it’s uniformly awful. Just so ya know.
This could backfire. Imagine you are a middle aged white male, displeased with this administration, but thinking sites like KOS are Too Lefty Liberal. Then the MSM tells you they are mostly middle aged white males.
raven @ 69
nail on the head raven, no matter which blogs I read, this is the only one where you can count on insight and information in from the commentaters
I also get the idea that my insight is appreciated and I come here to vent, to pontificate
sometimes I am certain progressive politicians like pelosi and feingold read us here because they take our thoughts and you see them almost verbatum in an interview
this is what we are here for and we feel like we have value
I see nothing close on other blogs
raven @ 76
I commented at some length on the accusations of anti-semitism being leveled at anti-war people earlier today (something that they did also at the outset of the Iraq war) and is beyond disgusting. That Ford has picked this up means that the DLC sees this as a hitting point against progressives in the lead up to more surge and possibly Iran bombing to come.
On abortion, Ford is right. Abortions go UP when people don’t have money - and the rates are highest in states with the highest poverty rates. The push against birth control in the rethug years hasn’t helped either - to say nothing of the ring-thingy idiocy.
Hi all-
Silly question:
How is it known whether or not more men or women visit a blog given the many unisex handles?
perris @ 83
Thanks, I thought my comment was being ignored because I am a male! :)
My letter to Ellen Goodman:
Dear Ms. Goodman:
Sitting on my shelf is a copy of Value Judgments that I have read more than once. I tend to agree with your opinions, and I admire your skill as a writer. You are a columnist who addresses issues that I care about, and I I usually feel like you “get it.”
You, however, don’t seem to “get it” about blogging. It seems you think that women bloggers are all but nonexistent. Have you ever actually logged onto Firedoglake? Have you heard of a blogger named Digby? How about Marcy Wheeler at The Next Hurrah? (BTW, Marcy did a far better job than any MSM journalist covering the Libby trial.) Do you know that Daily Kos has lots of diaries written by women? Do you know who Susan Gardner is? Ever heard of a blogger named Ariana Huffington….do you think she’s a guy?
If you were to spend a little bit of time with the bloggers listed above, you might learn something. Until then, you really shouldn’t write columns on subjects you know nothing about.
Milan River @ 85
I was thinking to myself I wonder how many of the people I read here at the lake are women and how many are men.
impossible to tell unless the handle is gender specific
Milan River @ 85
yea!
I think Markos ought to have challenged Ford to give an example of KOS’s anit-semitism, not just said “That’s untrue”. Or at lea