For those who haven't lost interest in democracy (41 House Democrats need not raise their hands), Matt Stoller has been engaged in a discussion with people from the ACLU about just what went wrong with the FISA bill. Basically, the Democrats seem to have gotten punk'd like they always do. BushCo. appoints some "new guy" who's going to come in and save the day (in this case, Director of Intelligence Admiral Mike McConnell) who proceeds to make a deal with them and then betrays them.
Read Matt's whole post, but much like the Dodd interview of yesterday regarding the Senate passage of the Military Commissions Act, the new FISA bill made its way through because of poor planning and downright bungling:
House leaders put the 'good bill' on the suspension calendar, which is a specific track for non-controversial legislation that requires a two thirds vote. Suspension calendar bills are often about things like naming post offices, and bills on this track do not go to the floor for amendments and debate. I asked a contact why this bill went on the suspension calendar, and she told me it's because there had been no hearings on the bill so it couldn't go to the floor (though she is going to get more information from a staffer who knows more about rules). McConnell, prodded by Bush, double-crossed the Democrats, and withdrew his support for the good bill, which then went down to defeat on the suspension calendar. Normally, the Senate's awful bill and the House's more reasonable one would be mashed together in conference, but in this case the Senate had already gone home. In other words, this was a procedural blunder. As a rule, you do not lose procedural fights like this in the House, as a friend told me it's like 'walking the pitcher'. The good bill should have been brought to the floor, but it was not. The whip operation, run by Clyburn, and the floor manager, Hoyer, failed to manage this properly.
That's it. We now live in a virtual police state because the Democratic leadership screwed up.
Liberal groups, as Caroline noted, were cut out of the process by liberal leaders and Blue Dogs alike. House and Senate leaders trusted Bush, who of course double-crossed them, and trusted Mike McConnell, who is appointed by Bush as a Colin Powell-type respectable military man. And then, to add insult to injury, they rushed a complicated bill through out of fear of criticism by George Bush, the man who lied to them and prevented a FISA fix.
You have to wonder how many times they're going to pull the football away before the Democrats get wise to the game. I realize they live in fear of being defeated in 2008 and don't want to do anything to rock the boat, but aside from the moral argument -- it really is their job to see that this stuff does not happen -- the idea that standing up to George Bush on warrantless wiretapping is going to make them unpopular is patently absurd. As Glenn Greenwald has noted, that's the argument Karl Rove tried to make before the 2006 elections and the Republicans got slaughtered. Those who tried to make it campaign issues like Nancy Johnson were hammered into humiliating defeat.
Matt says the blame for this fiasco lies at the feet of Hoyer, Clyburn, Emanuel, Pelosi and Reid. Since it's August and these people are going to be back in their districts at some point for Town Hall meetings and other public events, it would be a great time (as Christy has noted) for people to show up and express their discontent with what happened. It's not easy to find announcements of these events, but I did manage to find this one:
Senator Reid in Pahrump, Town Hall Meeting: Aug 15th
Senator Harry Reid will be in Pahrump Wednesday, August 15, 11:30 am till 1 pm. At the Bob Ruud Community Center, Highway 160 and Basin Street. Senator Harry Reid is scheduled for a Town Hall meeting.
If anyone can locate public events that Hoyer, Clyburn, Emanuel, Pelosi or Reid are going to be at, please leave them in the comments so that we can announce them. It would be great for people to organize Roots actions to go and pay their respects.
This one left a mark.
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ha
Does one say “zed” in this instance?
Doh! I guess not.
SufiLizard @ 2
“One” says ha because “one” doesn’t like zed!
Hey Jane, hope you are well.
hey, I thought I was talking to myself downstairs.
BigMitch @ 6
There you go again.
Single digits. Hugs to Jane and apologies to Kobe. Our long lost of last January found its way home to the bank afte six months.
SufiLizard @ 2
one says ‘two’
I don’t understand why they don’t understand who they are dealing with. They seem so clueless.
I’ve had it with them - stupid is as stupid does.
I only hope the smart ones like Leahey…nail the warmongers.
hey raven, epu’d from downstairs;
perris @ 157
they were talking about the conduct of the war as much as rumsfeld and is administration of our armed forces
mack @ 9
One says two, but why is six afraid of seven? Because seven ate nine.
so,
When I looked at the vote and saw Rahm was a ‘nay’ I didn’t think through to the part where he has some responsibility as a leader.
(ya know, using Rahm and leader in the same sentence is just wrong)
WIll look for his next meet and greet at the Jewels
President Bush is coming to Bellevue, WA on August 27 for a fundraiser for Representative Fourth Reichert. How much you wanna bet I’ll be there protesting?
I don’t believe this for a second. This was deliberate. You will never convince me that Steny Hoyer just dropped the ball, and nobody noticed. This bill was too prominent, too contentious.
Who are you?
The new Number Two.
Who is Number One?”
You are Number Six
I am not a number — I am a free man!
Yeah, Seamus. Methinks Stony is cut from the Lieberman cloth. But then I’m paranoid and a DFH……..
You would think that the Democrats would have learned from their experiences with Rove and Bush and Cheney that you don’t give them what they ask for, because next time they’ll ask for more. Also they should have learned to count their fingers and check the contents of their wallets after shaking hands with anyone from Bushco.
I’d like to know what’s in the air and water systems in the Capitol. It sure seems to dumb down a lot of people.
mack @ 9
Yeah, I see that I wasn’t first. I have to admit, when I first discovered this site a couple weeks ago, I thought the race to be first to comment was kind of juvenile.
But wouldn’t you know when I thought I had the chance to be first, I jumped right on it.
at this stage you have to question the wisdom of ANYBODY that enables this adminstration.
That sums it up right there. If that’s the best the Democratic leadership can do, then they are useless.
Hmmm…looked like footage from YKOS on CNN…Hillary in that turquoise jacket.
Some how my comment disappeared
mack @ 16
Yes! I guess I’m not the only one who uses that quote from The Prisoner on occasion.
(Wasn’t that the name of the program?)
Warrantless wire-tapping WAS illegal
Boneheads.
perris @ 11
I surrendered down there. I’m still taking about some one on active duty but I get the point.
SufiLizard @ 20
Welcome to FDL! Where adults get to have thought provoking virtual conversations AND act like children all at the same time. ;})
I love the illustration chosen for this post — just perfect.
Who are they kidding? With a 2/3 majority needed there is nothing given about the outcome. The Democrats should have stuck to their guns and their bill in the House and expedited it as much as possible. Yes, they blew it but the real sellout was in the Senate. The Senate passed the Republican version of the bill under the inept leadership of Harry Reid. He then adjourned the chamber dumping the mess in the House’s lap. Way to go, Harry. Then Pelosi et al proceeded to make matters worse. All of this was eminently foreseeable and was in fact foreseen. Reid and Pelosi knew exactly what they were doing. They just didn’t expect to be called on it by us in the blogosphere.
carolyn urban @ 21
They also trusted McConnell, DNI, and he has used up his “fool me once, shame on you” card. (SecDef Gates used that up during Contragate.)
Anyone see something wrong with this picture?
Suddenly, they’re making Gonzo look downright sharp.
BigMitch @ 12
that’s my favorite riddle
LS @ 26
I’m trying to put myself in the Senator’s place. But I can’t do it. The mind reels.
So I ditto LS.
CWBaris @ 25
You can’t make something legal with an unconstitutional statute.
With the Repugs, we’ve had a “Culture of Criminality”.
With the Democrats, we have a “Culture of Cowardice”.
Those are some great choices, ain’t they voters?
dakine01 @ 29
I like it too but none of that zed shit for me!
BigMitch @ 36
you can with this SCOTUS.
How can this all be fixed? Forget six-months.
TiredFed @ 38
sad but true
BigMitch @ 31
Look they have only been lied to and double crossed by this Administration for the last 6 years. Too early to discern a pattern.
BigMitch @ 36
You’ve have responses in EPU land…
mui @ 39
In Froomkin today, there was a brief note saying that surveillance begun before the 6 month sunset can continue for up to a year.
TiredFed @ 38
Ugh. And that’s the sad truth. Democracy has slipped through our fingers.
Torches and pitchforks anyone?
TiredFed @ 38
Point taken. Now I want to cry.
raven @ 28
OK, one more. I read the article and I keep up with this stuff. Nowhere does it say anyone retired or resigned to do this. I think it’s great they spoke up but if they had retired or resigned in protest they would have said so. Am I being stubborn here?
Hugh @ 44
Sh*t I’m so deppressed.
raven @ 37
At least our kind of childish doesn’t get people killed like the “I’ll hold my breath until my face turns blue” childishness of the Bush Crime Family.
And what’s up with that zed “shit” anyway? I know in Canada, that’s how they pronounce the letter ‘z’.
I called Sen Bob Casey from PA yesterday to ask why he voted to give Bush even more authority to destroy this country. An aide said that Casey was waiting for “cooler heads to prevail”. I was furious at this. I said I didn’t want cooler heads…I wanted OUTRAGE..If he didn’t know what was at stake he should not be a Senator. I said Santorum would have voted the same way as Casey and if I had know Casey would be like this I would never had had a Casey bumper sticker on my car. I implored the aide to tell Casey to read the Constitution and uphold the oath he swore. And then I asked what was Casey doing about restoring habeus corpus? These people are disgusting.
I don’t see how attempting to change the legislation “after recess” will fly. They’ll screw up and get shot down again. They should try, but I’m sure not holding my breath. For awhile I thought she was being cunning and slick and might pull something off. My impression is that she thought she could schmooze her way and flirt her way, and I really don’t like the way she operates. Cindy Sheehan should run against her. She would not have backed down or negotiated over any of these issues. Reid is…sad to say, hopeless.
raven @ 27
check this out raven, I khow it’s not what you’re looking for but I think you’ll get a kick out of it anyway
Find me Rahm, I’ll definitely go see him.
I looked at his site and it said nothing.
SufiLizard @ 48
In earlier versions of wordpress (the blog software), when the first comment showed after getting to the thread, it displayed as comment zero/”0″, hence the “zed”
Alice B @ 50
“Waiting for cooler heads to prevail.” ??!? what does that mean?
Alice B @ 50
WTF?!?!?! OK, that almost made my head explode.
Yea, I was watching that. He makes me crazy, Drug Czar and all around expert on everything in nthe world.
mack @ 13
Rahm was been quoted yesterday in the NYT that this “FISA Surrender Bill” was so screwed up, that when he returns from vacation, he’s gonna make sure they fix things by October.
Hmmm…Rahm seems to forget that Junya “vetoes” everything the Democrats try to put into law, and with no means to override the veto, just how was Rahm intending to sell this piggy?
So what happens is that Junya will use his “Executive Powers” to “extend” the existing “FISA Surrender Bill” ad infinitum or until the end of his term, whichever comes later.
My what a great big “Strategist” you are Rahm. Feckin’ NOT!
Nola Sue @ 55
that’s what I meant to say.
This whole Democratic Party cave-in has truly affected me in ways I couldn’t imagine before last weekend. I have this empty-gut feeling like I have no representation in this democracy.
I don’t believe that the Democrats will ever put on the brakes against the shitstorm coming from Bush. I don’t see anyone standing in the way of another illegal invasion of a sovereign country.
It makes no logical sense what went down last Saturday. I can’t even imagine why a majority party would allow passage of this crap. It is to the point where I question my own sanity (especially since the vast majority of my friends and co-workers have no idea what went down).
If the 4th Amendment of our Constitution doesn’t merit a filibuster (and all of the other parliamentary tools) in its defense, then I don’t know what there is left.
This weekend, I came to the realization that the Democratic powder will be dry forever. Nancy Pelosi wants me to hold my breath, while she and her colleagues go on vacation, and she promises to clean up the mess when they get back. Unreal.
“….was waiting for cooler heads to prevail”. Gotta keep that powder dry for later.
dakine01 @ 53
Wait till Christy is live blogging asks very nicely that people limit the bullshit one liners and “zed’s and Fitz’s” rain down.
Deja vu. I feel the same way I did after the 2004 election.
BigMitch @ 46
worse yet, they gave up on a major article of impeachment for Cheney; warrantless wiretapping is his baby.
Russ Feingold:
Not sure what Raven is saying at #57.
I tend to agree with the point attributed to Gen. McCaffrey, that unless something is doen the military is going to break from the strain of the next set of troop rotations, due in April ‘08. And further, that Congress ought to do something about it.
Something such as “impeachment.”
How many times can you believe someone who says, “I didn’t mean to beat you up, again. I won’t next time. I’ll do better. I’ll get some help. I’ll take anger management classes. Honest, dear.” The Democrats are codependents. They need more help than the Repugs.
Rahm is going to be down by Lake Michigan testing the water for BP contaminants.
There is one really smart, slick, constitutional expert who does not like what is happening, and that is Bruce Fein. He’s helping prepare impeachment papers for Gonzo.
I’d like to see him come up with something to undo the FISA debacle.
LS @ 69
Yeah I enjoyed watching him on Moyers. Apparently Howie’s New Blue Rep from TN, Cohen, finds him good too.
Hey… I live in Chicago, and will attend any event where I can speak to Ram Emanuel or any of the others.
Gen. Barry McCaffrey, another fraud.
Our congress basically has two choices then. Withdrawal or draft. I’m betting that unless Congress feels more pressure, they’ll suggest a draft.
Lucy pulls the football away after promising Charlie Brown she would let him kick it this time, and he beleives her, again!
It’s just what the (D) party does to anyone who beleives they’ll change anything for the better… time for energized, politically astute folks to take their rosy (D) glasses off and look for ways to get 3rd party candidates on the ballot, so you’ll have a choice when your (D) betrays their promises, again.
Mad Dogs @ 58-
This is apparently the spin coming out of Amy Klobuchar’s office, too. Here, from MN Campaign Report, is a statement she issued:
Sorry to keep harping on this, but I think Klobuchar’s vote is one of the biggest disappointments in this whole mess, and I really want to have a strong MN swing for Christy’s “summer tour.”
Several MN Firedogs have expressed interest in pulling together for this — anyone else out there, please contact me via facebook or at susank125 at hotmail.
Time to bang Molly’s pots & pans!!!
Casey Statement on FISA Votes
Monday, August 6, 2007
WASHINGTON, DC-Following the votes on the temporary FISA bills, U.S. Senator Bob Casey (D-PA) issued the following statement:
“I voted for both versions of the temporary FISA fix in order to ensure that U.S. intelligence has the tools they need to target terrorists while a larger review of the FISA law is conducted.
“The Bond-McConnell version supported by the White House is far from ideal and I deplore the tactics employed by the Bush Administration to push its agenda through the politics of fear.
“A thorough review when cooler heads can prevail is needed for a permanent FISA fix that keeps the United States safe from terrorists while also safeguarding the rights of American citizens.”
LS @ 67
It’s not just Fein, it’s folks like Jonathon Turley and most other Constitutional lawyers as well.
Fein has credibility purely because he was a deputy AG under Reagan.
BigMitch @ 65
It’s showing up as 56 on my screen. I’m sorry I didn’t complete my thought. He is right on this one but he still drives me nuts. All his bullshit on the “war on drugs” was just stupid. He also wiped out a retreating republican guard division after the truce was signed because, supposedly, one round was fired at his outfit.
cancer_cures @ 72
Yeah. They’ll probably concoct some “trick” bill that they think surely won’t pass, and then next thing you know there will be lottery numbers. If a draft gets started again, it will take years and years to stop it, if ever.
LS @ 69
I swear FISA wasn’t a debacle but deliberate. I think there are far more NeoCons lurking under the surface among Democrats than they acknowledge.
Lahoma and I say we are pleased to know we aren’t the only ones just about fed up with our party, the Democratic Party. (fisa,etc.)
Time for the pitch forks.
Throw ALL THE BUMS OUT
Regime change for america
Constitutional convention NOW
What a bunch of incompetant slackers.
cancer_cures @ 72
And it will be blamed on Democrats so Bush gets his infinite war and Democrats suffer the political ramifications of it.
Talk about your “teflon Don.”
And none of this would have been possible without a Democratic congress almost inept enough to qualify for Bush political appointments.
Even a modicum of backbone would have been enough to stop the worst abuses, but I guess that was too much to hope for from these invertebrates.
LS @ 69
Now that’s a Big Idea. Hmmmm….
let me make a point about allowing the president to spy on people conucting bussiness outside the us
that means everyone
that’s right, everone…once you go on the internet it is international
and once the seal is broken, the protocol is met and the adminsitration will use that to justify stealing everyone’s information everywhere, not only the internet
this cave is bizzarre
How did a GOP bill even get to the floor? We can’t get no Dem Bill to the floor with out a filibuster.
been reading congressional records and rules today and just spent 35 minutes on the phone with an extremely helpful house rules committee aide - who attempted to explain to me in excruciating detail what went down last week.
it is not pretty - and as jane says… i think responsibility for this one lies with the house (and senate) leadership.
i wouldn’t have posted any comment yet, but thought i should at least let everyone know that i have been following up today with the conversations we’ve all been having in the comments - many thanks to everyone - especially pow wow (see here and here).
will add more at the bottom of this thread after i get my notes together and and read matt’s post.
Hre’s my letter to my Sen. Bill Nelson-
Dear Senator Nelson:
You work for me, so I’ve been watching you work. You should be ashamed of yourself for voting for the Bush Administration’s so-called “Protect America Act” regarding FISA “reforms.” It was a bill rushed through to a vote without public hearings and public involvement. Did you read it before you voted? It was a bill crafted by the White House, squelching basic American freedoms and giving the Executive Branch completely unfettered power to spy on Americans with no accountability. You caved in to the White House’s insistence that unchecked spying on Americans is somehow required to fight terrorism, when we all know that supplanting hundreds of years of sound constitutional protections for the public relations delusion of anti-terrorism is short-sighted and totally ineffective.
You should also be ashamed of yourself to be the only Democratic Senator on the Senate Intelligence Comm. to vote with the Republicans on May 23, against the proposal barring spending on the CIA’s Secret interrogation program for “terrorists” and on interrogation techniques that go beyond the Army Field Manual’s banning physical pressure or pain. Under this Democratic proposal, the only exception would have been when the president determined “that an individual has information about a specific and imminent threat,” and those types of threats were specifically detailed. But you voted with the Republicans then too. Your “no” vote is on this proposal is inexplicable.
All of the expert evidence before you already demonstrates that torture as an intelligence tactic simply doesn’t work effectively; it endangers our military, it damages our international prestige and it undermines our national interests. And beyond all of that, you certainly shouldn’t need me to point out the fundamental fact that it is immoral and beneath us as Americans and as sentient human beings.
As your constituent, I’m ashamed that in making these votes you purport to represent me and my values. You don’t. I’m now going to work very hard to make sure that the Democratic Senator from Florida will. Unless you shape up and start putting America’s interests over your own insecurities, you’re fired. It may take several years for me and the rest of the Democrats of Florida to get you to clear out our Democratic Senator’s desk, but for the love of America, please try not to do too much more damage on your way out.
Sincerely,
Otis
dakine01 @ 76
You are right. Turley is great. Fein seems like he can really be a prick, but it’s good to have a prick on your side in situations like this, that was my meaning.
jim oconnor @ 71
From the wikipedia
Good lord Dems. This is your moment and you’re blowing it.
Elliott @ 59 — Great minds. I’m always late, usually EPU’d. ;)
selise @ 86
thanks selise!
Show us the terrorists…
Where are the convictions?
What a bunch of rubbish. Complete fear mongering and caving in like girlymen, to quote Ahnold.
Aren’t these pols dispicable?
I kinda have the urge to run over to Pelosi and Reid and say, NO…don’t try to do anything..move out of the way, and let somebody smart and tough deal with these guys…move along…go have a cocktail…whatever…just get out of the way.
Alice B @ 86
It’s the dementors. We need to send a few boxes of dark chocolate to congress to ward them off. They can’t seem to do it by themselves.
Selise at 85: Why am I expecting to learn how McGovern #@&*ed us again on the Rules.
SufiLizard @ 20
I hang my head in shame. Same here. ARGH. :-)
Passage of this law is yet another reason why Gonzales must be impeached. The AG is half of the oversight in the law. Get another AG in there.
The people want change Democrats. What the heck does it take?
retirin’ in five @ 17
He and Emmanuel and Schumer and Lieberman. Same cloth. Same insanity. Same sell out of this country.