Glenn Greenwald has a very telling interview with Chris Dodd at Salon, where Dodd describes what happened in the Senate with the habeas battle and the Military Commissions Act:
GG: I want to ask you about habeas restoration. And the first question I want to ask you is this - obviously, the reason why it is so difficult now is because you have to get a veto-proof majority in order to restore habeas. But had the habeas elimination statute not been enacted in October, we wouldn't be in this situation now. Was there a real consideration in the caucus about filibustering the Military Commissions Act?
CD: I'm smiling because . . . I have this book coming out on the 12th. . . . I tell the story of what happened with the Act. There was a caucus meeting. Carl Levin makes the case that this may be the best we can do. It's not great, but it's not as bad as it could be, and we've got the support of John Warner and John McCain and Lindsey Graham. They're fighting and they're going to stick with us and keep this thing on a basic constitutional level.
And Pat Leahy spoke up and I spoke up and Leahy was very clear -- this may be the worst potential vote if it goes sour on us -- the last vote, the [Iraq] Authorization, didn't matter as much because Bush was going to war no matter what. This was real, it had real effects. The other thing [about the Iraq AUMF] - now we know they were going to do it anyway.
GG: Right - they only sought a vote in advance on the war once they knew they would win it.
CD: Right. So then they mark the bill up in the Armed Services Committee, and of course the three Senators who voted for it were lobbied, and they changed it dramatically. It was really what caused me to become so concerned about it.
And I was on the floor of the Senate, one of those spontaneous moments, and I was with Byron Dogran, and we were both talking about it -- this is really bad -- and we spontaneously walked into Harry Reid's office and we said we want to filibuster, and he said, "look, you'll have 10 votes."
And a lot of guys here, we went through Max Cleland, in 2002, and all the morphing and so forth. In a sense, it was one of those moments, because at the end, there were 34 votes against it. And I think had we really had worked it a little longer, we could have produced those 40 votes.
I want you to re-read this passage again, because I had to read it several times to appreciate how genuinely unprepared, disorganized an non-strategic the leadership response was on one of the most important issues of our time, the destruction of habeas corpus. God bless Chris Dodd for trying, but he and Dorgan wandering into Reid's office and Reid saying "have a Coke and a smile, guys, not gonna happen"? That's pretty shocking.
I know we were all shaking our heads with dismay about how easily Bush bullied Congress into passing the FISA legislation, but from a strategic point of view it makes no sense. Bush wanted two things -- a) the updating of the FISA bill to include the ability to wiretap foreign-to-foreign communications that were routed through the US, which even Russ Feingold said was necessary and b) language that essentially gave him the ability to spy on anyone without a warrant. Why for the love of Mary did the Democrats not craft a bill legislating "a" and when Bush refused to sign it because it did not include "b" did they not scream from the high holy heavens that he was not giving the intelligence community the tools it needed to do its job? It was the perfect moment to pivot back on the Republicans and protect our civil liberties at the same time. But it would have required some strategic thinking and forethought that Chris Dodd's tale indicates is just not a part of how these decisions get made.
During his breakout session at YearlyKos Dodd was critical of Senate leadership for not forcing Republicans to actually filibuster, they are allowed to obstruct everything simply with the threat of filibuster. I realize dealing with the GOP is always going to be an encounter fraught with problems, but we all worked hard to help the Democrats win back he majority last fall. They need to develop a bit more dexterity at using it.
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Jane!!
Hey Mitch, how bout them Yankees.
Dang, you’re fast, Big Mitch!
Jane! KOBE!
In this house we like Senator Dodd. We don’t like Harry.
I think the Yankees are the best ball club ever. And I’m an A’s fan.
can’t listen to any more of this damn yankee talk. thanks for another great post, Jane.
Shhh, Mitch, no sports talk here.
On Topic: Every time Dodd opens his mouth, I am more impressed with him. Not impressed enough to change from my first choice John Edwards, but I have a new second choice.
Except for that troublesome Kucinich. Everything he says, I agree with. But I don’t think he has the personality to run successfully against Mitt Romney or Rudy Giuliani.
We may know Rudy is a joke, but watching him appeal to reptile brains is a scary proposition.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 7
This Yankee team the best baseball team ever. . .come on.
Is there a leadership school we can send these guys to (male and female both) so they understand what tools they have and how to use them? Not to mention teaching them about the Constitution and their Congressional role under it?
Jane
What you say sounds exactly right- would love to hear an answer to it.
Dammit. Dammit. Dammit.
What bothers me is that Levin isn’t asking for money, although he’s running for reelection. What does that tell you??
And there’s nobody we could put up against him. I can’t even believe I have to think about primarying the man because he has one of the best records in the Senate, but there you go.
Dammit.
2 great posts in a row, Jane! But what are they doing in Congress if they’re not thinking about the far-reaching consequences of the stuff on which they’re voting?
Tweety is showing the actual footage of Mit’s meltdown instead of that dumb ass clip they showed when Jane was on last night.
Again and again, it seems like the Dems treat the leadership of the houses of Congress like they work at the Kwik-E Mart, and all they have to do is show up and pour Squishees.
“CD: Right. So then they mark the bill up in the Armed Services Committee, and of course the three Senators who voted for it were lobbied, and they changed it dramatically. It was really what caused me to become so concerned about it.”
I want to know exactly who lobbied them. Who are these people?
Thank you for bring this to the light of day, Jane.
Even though reading it just.makes.me.sick!
When are Dems going to realize that this is not just a pickup sandlot ballgame. This is the future of their kids, our kids, the whole world, and jr. is just throwing it all down the toilet.
I can’t believe they didn’t know.
In case anyone’s interested, C-Span has that schmuck Kyle Sampson’s hearing before the Sen. Judic. Comm. on right now. Too late. At this point it’s just twisting the knife. *blergh*
OT, but a little ray of sunshine, David Palmer withdrew his nomination to head the EEOC.
but we all worked hard to help the Democrats win back he majority last fall. They need to develop a bit more dexterity at using it.
I e-mailed Olbermann, suggesting that he ask the Dem candidates tomorrow night, within the framework of the FISA vote, about the lack of focus and strategy within the Democratic party, and what the candidates would do, as the leader of that party, about it.
“Why for the love of Mary did the Democrats not craft a bill legislating “a” and when Bush refused to sign it because it did not include “b” did they not scream from the high holy heavens that he was not giving the intelligence community the tools it needed to do its job? It was the perfect moment to pivot back on the Republicans and protect our civil liberties at the same time.”
Outstanding, Ms. Hamsher. You’ve caught the essence of forming a good attack; both from the strategic as well as the tactical. THIS is the kind of thinking we need from our D teamers in both houses. THIS kind of thinking leads to WINNING.
Alas, have my beloved D teamers forgotten what it takes to WIN?
Ghostman
one of the most important issues of our time
I have the feeling that there is no such animal in the minds of a majority of the Senate. Election is Job 1, 2 and 3. Everything else is a nice-to-have.
Speaking of meltdowns, Jim Cramer had one heckuva meltdown.
He seems to think the bottom is falling out and the chattering class is just gladhanding everyone before the fall.
I’m melting, melting.
-GSD
“Pivot back on the Republicans” seems not to be in the Harry Reid playbook. I wonder what’s in his NSA file, or in the NSA file of a loved one.
These guys are politicians, right? Doesn’t that require some political thinking, with respect to opponents? Why is it so challenging for them?
And if it is so challenging for them, couldn’t they pick up a blog or two, read Jane or Glenn, and buy a clue?
LS @ 17
These people are Cheney.
raven @ 10
What I’m saying is that the big picture is that yes, the Yankees define baseball. The Yankees are the best! I didn’t mention “this” Yankee team. ;0)
N=1 @ 19
OT, but a little ray of sunshine, David Palmer withdrew his nomination to head the EEOC.
There’s another recess appointment to look forward to.
Rayne - if you are still on would you please email me at afeadie at aol com
I’m in Walberg’s district…
Thanks
Oklahoma kiddo @ 7
:P!!!
It’s not hard to understand why former Vice President Gore doesn’t want to spend any more time in the seamy political world. Our loss.
It’s so simple for us. Public financing of elections.
I can hear your frustration, Jane.
Is there ANY way you can use your contacts to infiltrate the leadership and SHOW THEM THE G*DAMNED Way?
Your torch is sorely needed in DC. Glad you’re going there. Hope you make some much-needed inroads.
Much love and light,
J
Oklahoma kiddo @ 26
Gotcha. And for those who are all grumpy about sports, they get talked about all the time on the Lake, ask emptywheel and those damn wolverines or Christy and the eers!
Okay, this may seem dumb as a box of hair, but I have to ask. If the Democrats are unconcerned with preserving habeas corpus and preserving our privacy re: the FISA debacle on Saturday, what are they concerned with?
What will it take to remove Mr. Reid and Ms. Pelosi from leadership, and install some of these who actually seem like they want to fight back instead of closing their eyes and thinking of England yet AGAIN?
-S
LS @ 17
The statement implies there is an anti-habeas lobby in DeeCee — which is pretty sickening until you realize it’s the Executive Branch doing the anti-habeas lobbying.
What has our country become?
LS - EPU’d from below, for your viewing pleasure”
LS @ 230
looseheadprop @ 226
LS
Is that LS don’t be silly…or LS something else?
LS, I will take a quick stab at your question. Theoretically, yes it is a pathway, but not a likely one. Even if Congress legislated standing, I am not sure there is a cognizable question or controversy that could get beyond a Rule 12(b)(6) motion to dismiss because there is still no way to prove you, the plaintiff, were specifically harmed. More importantly, why would our leaders have the guts to do this when they could have solved the problem just by saying “Hey, not so fast, let’s think about this before we act”.
Sounds as if there is little formal communication or group planning in the senate. In business, no department or division would go into an important meeting without hours of group meeting and strategizing about the issue- here it doesn’t seem to happen..
Could be that they can’t depend on their own group to keep their mouths shut about what is said in private- and of course they are mostly lawyers- who are notoriously shitty managers.
GSD @ 23
it might be a good thing if someone in Mr Cramer’s circle of supporters approached him with the thot of cutting back on his “meds”.
surely….
same with tweety….
Oklahoma kiddo @ 6
Harry really is that clueless. How the heck did he ever get in a position to become Majority Leader? For a former boxer, he sure likes to take a beating.
There are many who say Gore won’t. And there are many saying that at the end of the day, he will.
Mr. Gore. Come blow Rudy, Hillary and Obama out of the water. Mother Earth needs you.
It just boggles the mind, that the very people we elect to do the peoples business can’t seem to find the time to consider a long term strategy in making things right. every one of these miscreants took an oath to preserve and protect the gift we were given in the Constitution and save covering the pathetic asses of the commander in chief, the AG and God knows who else, they sell the American people out. If that isn’t to be considered treason or high crimes I don’t know what is.
All I know is that since the two votes taken Friday and Saturday, the country I know and love will never be the same again and that in fact, there is no difference between the two parties as they both answer to some other authority that compels them to continue destroying what the founding fathers assured us till the end of time.
Nancy Pelosi’s sellout!
This is EPU’d from last night. I don’t know how many of you saw then, but I believe that a lot more people should read it and understand just how craven and duplicitous the Dem leadership is.
Jane, you have hit this nail right on the head. The Dem leadership is too much like corporate CEOs who are so worried about meeting this quarter’s numbers that they don’t see that their company is losing market share, has failed to make necessary long term infrastructure investment or do some other long range planning necessary for the company’s overall survival.
They are reactive rather than proactive and do not think strategiacally. They should all be sent to chess camp.
Tin foil hat time: I noticed on Sataurday that the House spent alomost hte entire day (which should have been spent focused on the FISA bill) debating an ammending the environmental bill.
The environmental bill seems to actually have some decent stuff in it and looks like a lot of work on both sides of the ailse went into it. I saw a number of ammendments made with no or gentle opposition from the GOP side of the aisle.
What if at that dinner that Nancy had with Shrub, he offered to let the Reps go easy on the environmental bill, if she would go easy on the evil version of the FISA bill?
Did she think she was getting a quid pro quo?
Cause if so, she got totally punked, since the next day Bush said he was going to veto this very detailed and very bi-partisan environemental bill.
HMMMM? Could that be why she fired off that letter to Waxman saying she wanted to undo the FISA bill? Was she thinking this would frighten Shrub into not vetoing he environmetnal bill, so she could say “look the do nothing COngress did something, and all you voters out htere should care more about emissions standards than you do about the shredding of the constitution”
I DO CARE about emissions standards, but if this dim bulb would just stop trying to have her cake and eat it too, and do the job the American people elected dems to 2004 to do——Re-establish the rule of law–well, then she would have a done her fekkin job AND have her emissions standards at the back end as well.
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 39
Maybe he’s on queer street!
That’s an astounding story of bad leadership and it does not reflect well on Dodd that he didn’t take more extraordinary steps himself.
The starting lineup today included Johnny Damon, .345 on base % leading off, and 7 batters hitting > .290, plus Bobby Abreau, lifetime .301. Mariano Rivera, the greatest reliever of all time, closed it out.
Not a bad argument for “this” Yankee team.
Hey, I started this conversation at #2 above, when I thought I was alone. Sorry, Jane.
With this kind of leadership, how did Reid become the Majority Leader?
LS @ 17
Me too!
Cramer IS a meltdown– still- it may be a good time to reduce exposure- I just went from an equity/bond balance of 70/30 down to 55/45. I smell some rough sledding.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 40
Every thing the others do makes Gore look better and better. He’s THE natural leader of the bunch.
Period.
GSD @ 23
The market went up 300 points today. Very weird.
I made a joke the other day when Silvestre Reyes was “Pontificating” about FISA… that someone should send him to a “Toastmasters” class.
But this is really getting old.
Is there ANY WAY that Jane and Marcy, et. al, can start a “political strategy 101″ business to take these pathetic excuses for “Political Representatives” to school?
Jane, as you point out, succinctly:
“I want you to re-read this passage again, because I had to read it several times to appreciate how genuinely unprepared, disorganized an non-strategic the leadership response was on one of the most important issues of our time, the destruction of habeas corpus. God bless Chris Dodd for trying, but he and Dorgan wandering into Reid’s office and Reid saying “have a Coke and a smile, guys, not gonna happen”? That’s pretty shocking.”
This is the same b*llsh*t that happened with FISA! In both Chambers!!!
Lea-no uh @ 14
I suspect they are thinking about the ‘08 election and positioning for that. They may be right..the ‘08 election may have the most far-reaching consequences of any election in our life-times.(Of course the Republicans may be grabbing more power so there won’t be elections in ‘08..difficult times..difficult questions)
rwcole @ 48
Time to diversify a bit. I’m selling all my Beanie Babies and investing in 1$ scratch tickets.
-GSD
lhp
Believe me- what Jane describes is NOTHING AT ALL- like CEO behavior.
Can we sponsor a Glen Greenwald/FDL ‘Here are the Tools at Congress’s Disposal’ seminar for the Dems in Congress? Because, I mean, Jeebus deep fried on a stick do these people lack any clue whatsoever about how government works.
Maybe we can squeeze a fifteen minute pep-talk on using the ‘dry powder’ in there, too.
LS @ 17
Unless I’m mistaken this refers to Graham, McCain, and Warner getting reamed by the WH about their deviation from the King’s command. Properly chastised they reaffirmed their fealty and caved on their so-called principles.
The dumb Democratic strategists don’t realize that the election that mattered was 2006. America was looking for a lifeline and got an anchor instead.
-GSD
Well, it sounds to me that the current crew of Democrats just don’t have enough heart to take on the greater issues of the day, no matter how good a game they talk. If we made a list, the #1 position would be Dems lack strategic thinking. #2 We lack the ability to see problems prior to them becoming huge problems. #3 Dems don’t know which of their leaders to follow, or when to switch to a new line of thinking. Do you think we could go on for a long time and end up with a list almost as long as Hugh’s?
Eureka Springs @ 47
Probably Lieberman was one of the lobbyers.
GSD @ 23
My office is on an office building corridor. The building enxt to us housed a main office of a mortgage comapy that just went into bankrupcy. 7,000 employees are out of work. Bankers are out of work.
ANd how many bad mortagaes does tha represent?
The bottom is falling out. ANd just like Bill Clinton had to clean up the econmic mess left by Reagen/Bush and expend all sorts of political capital fixing mistakes made by others,
The next president is going to spend the entire first term and ll the honeymoon bounce just trying to avert a Depression
raven @ 43
huh?
Ghostman @ 21
Can you tell Glenn Greenwald is staying with me?
“Why for the love of Mary did the Democrats not craft a bill legislating “a” and when Bush refused to sign it because it did not include “b” did they not scream from the high holy heavens that he was not giving the intelligence community the tools it needed to do its job? It was the perfect moment to pivot back on the Republicans and protect our civil liberties at the same time. But it would have required some strategic thinking and forethought that Chris Dodd’s tale indicates is just not a part of how these decisions get made.”
Bold is mine.
Jane,
No “Strategic” thinking was required. Merely “thinking” was required.
It seems lobotomies have taken place when our Democratic Congress folks first arrived in DC ’cause there was no apparent “thinking” at all available in our Demcratic leadership.
What else could explain so stupendously stupid results on their part?
As I said earlier this morning and worth repeating:
Thanks Harry and Nancy!
You sold my constitutional rights for a few weeks of vacation. What a bargain!
Thanks so much!
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 50
Stock market is often volatile at turning points, when some investors change their minds sooner than others. Economy is sluggish & full effects of sub-prime disaster not yet felt.
I don’t worry too much about those, however, since if economy or credit situation or stock market gets too bad, the Fed will ease. The positive influence of lower interest rates on P/Es can be impressive.
So I’d expect a stock market correction, but not a meltdown.
That forecast is good ’til cancelled.
Past performance is no guaranty . . . or whatever all the disclaimers are.
phred @ 57
RNC maybe also.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 40
It is this hope that keeps me afloat.
Adie on Gore…
Lahoma says, ;0)!
Adie @ 38
Cramer is probably closer to the reality of the economy than a lot of others. For myself, I would not at all be surprised if the bottom is falling out of things.
rwcole @ 48
I went to 25 percent when the second carrier battle group was sent to the Gulf.
Ecah,
Won’t the Feds easing cause more foreign investors to dump their dollar holdings?
-GSD
BigMitch @ 62
The old meaning
“Expression used when a boxer is groggy and dazed from the effects of one or more punches. “Smith had Jones on Queer Street.”
Strategerie @ 34
I may be mistaken, but I think we are stuck with them until the next Congress convenes (or unless their districts have a recall election). I think once the leadership is selected at the beginning of each Congress it remains in place. Does anyone know of a way to remove them at this point in the session?
barbara @ 67
;0)
Jane Hamsher @ 63
Ooh, two peas in a pod! Did ya hook up through e-harmony?!!! 8-)
Jane, Has anyone had a chance to read Dodds book early? Would it be appropriate topic for this blogs book salon? *s*
Huh — my TSP (Federal equivalent of 401(k)) is split 75% Government securities, 15% bonds, 10% stocks…
BigMitch @ 45
raven @ 72
Got it. It did seem out of place, and I knew there had to be an explanation.
phred @ 73
No recalls for Federal elections.
Bris
Now THAT’S safe!
BigMitch @ 79
Me, say something out of place! Neeeever.
It gladdens my heart to see a glimmer of strategy beginning to form after the turn of events in the last few days. The big under used advantage is the subversive nature of the web, the unconventional wisdom, and wild ideas are the way forward. If we are to have any future as a free people, If the MSM and the politicians think we canbe co-opted we have them at a weak point in their thinking.
They are either Lazy or Too Scared to stand up and fight!! I really think many have been in office too long and need to go. I am sooo disappointed (not shocked though) in Bob Casey and all Dems who caved in on this FISA vote.
That pix at the top looks so very presidential. Looks like a leader.
rwcole @82, I did mine that way when I found out that Alan Greenspan was keeping most of his money in Government Securities, way back when…
I don’t get spectacular growth, but I haven’t lost much either.
“Rudy’s daughter backs Barack”
OUCH- that’s gotta hurt!!
Them ol family values goopers with dysfunctional families are at it again- and Rudy’s the LEADER of this box of rocks.
rwcole @ 55
I’m comparing it to bad CEO behavior. Shortsighted CEO behavior. Behavior of those who allow the comapny to e hollowed out b/c they are so afraid not making that quarter’s Wall Street predicitons.
GSD @ 71
Are you talking about India’s & China’s holdings of U.S. treasuries? If so, the answer is not really, looked at from a variety of ways. Most impt is that it is not in their self interest to initiate a run in an asset that they own so much of (otherwise known as: large borrowers own the bank). Another important reason: sell treasuries to by what? Don’t think other fixed income markets are liquid enough to accomodate large inflows with causing bubble.
Itsa big problem for Indians & Chinese, which is why they are starting to diversify their assets. What they really need to do is encourage domestic consumption and reduce saving, but they’re obviously not listening to that advice.
The usual influence of adverse foreign capital flows is a pileon one; they can make a bad situation worse but do not usually initiate a turning point.
And since this stock correction seems to be hop scotching around the world, it’s not obvious that selling U.S. stocks to buy elsewhere is such a brilliant move either.
As they say, applied to another situation, these are the times that try mens’ souls.
phred @ 73
My husband came into our room last night before we went to sleep and announced to me he’s seriously thinking about leaving the Democratic Party. My response? “Where would we go?”
I’d like to give the benefit of the doubt and say that perhaps this was all an accident, but any thinking