"This war is so fucking illegal." (Patrick Tillman)
From the AP:
SAN FRANCISCO -
Army medical examiners were suspicious about the close proximity of the three bullet holes in Pat Tillman's forehead and tried without success to get authorities to investigate whether the former NFL player's death amounted to a crime, according to documents obtained by The Associated Press.
"The medical evidence did not match up with the, with the scenario as described," a doctor who examined Tillman's body after he was killed on the battlefield in Afghanistan in 2004 told investigators.
The doctors - whose names were blacked out - said that the bullet holes were so close together that it appeared the Army Ranger was cut down by an M-16 fired from a mere 10 yards or so away.
In other words, Pat Tillman was most likely murdered in the field. In cold blood. By other US soldiers.
This must be what the Bush Administration was trying so desperately to hide behind their all purpose "Executive Privilege" shield.
Also from the AP article:
Among other information contained in the documents:
_ In his last words moments before he was killed, Tillman snapped at a panicky comrade under fire to shut up and stop "sniveling."
_ Army attorneys sent each other congratulatory e-mails for keeping criminal investigators at bay as the Army conducted an internal friendly-fire investigation that resulted in administrative, or non-criminal, punishments.
_ The three-star general who kept the truth about Tillman's death from his family and the public told investigators some 70 times that he had a bad memory and couldn't recall details of his actions.
_ No evidence at all of enemy fire was found at the scene - no one was hit by enemy fire, nor was any government equipment struck.
The Pentagon and the Bush administration have been criticized in recent months for lying about the circumstances of Tillman's death. The military initially told the public and the Tillman family that he had been killed by enemy fire. Only weeks later did the Pentagon acknowledge he was gunned down by fellow Rangers.
I wonder how long it will take the John Derbyshires and Michelle Malkins of the Rabid Right to insist that Tillman was to blame for his own murder. Start the countdown. Let's synchronize our watches...
Because remember, kids, nobody supports the troops like the Republicans. Until they do something that's bad for PR like get hurt or killed or dare to actually tell the truth about the GOP's Great War on Civilians. Then it's off to the trash heap of history with them.
Tillman's mother, Mary Tillman, who has long suggested that her son was deliberately killed by his comrades, said she is still looking for answers and looks forward to the congressional hearings next week.
"Nothing is going to bring Pat back. It's about justice for Pat and justice for other soldiers. The nation has been deceived," she said.
Of all the disgraceful, sickening things our country has done in the name of "spreading liberty" in the Great War on Terrah, this one is a real prize-winner. I only hope that his family can find some kind of peace in the days ahead. In the wake of such a devastating loss followed by a breathtaking series of insults and brush-offs from the US government and the leadership of the armed forces, if I were in their shoes, I think I would simply have lost my mind by now.
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Zed?
Nice shot, diva!
Now go tell the others we’re up here.
hi low
Crap.
Yay, me
But, dang, some of my best comments are EPU’d again. Sigh.
Oh. Sorry.
(((((((TRex!!!)))))))
I let downstairs know. Now I’ll go read the post, which I’m sure is exceptionally hard-hitting, yet elegantly eloquent.
Funnydiva
Coincidence that a General was demoted yesterday and the article came out today.. I think not.
Kevin, in partnership with his brother’s spirit, are waging such a courageous fight - i wish them every strength possible.
When the Tillmans testified I could barely contain myself. So honorable, so outstanding. That young man was so well spoken and expressed his intellect and his emotions having to do with his brothers death (now murder) so articulately.
After the Tillmans take out those responsible for hiding the truth about Pat, I hope Kevin runs for an office.
Are they saying Tillman was fragged?
Kids, I’m rushing around trying to put together my show for tonight which goes on the air in, uh, 31 minutes. Crrrrrrrrrap. I’ll be back in just a bit.
If you’d like to listen to my show tonight, fire up your non-Mozilla browser and go here:
http://www.wuga.org/listen_online.html
Back in a bit.
Simply disgraceful… Peace to his family
IntelVet @ 9
That would seem to be the gist of it.
Not all Americans were deceived, millions marched before the invasion trying to save Pat Tillmans, Casey Sheehans and innocent Iraqi people.
There were just too many experts out there questioning the intelligence and the intentions to not question the agenda of the Bush administration in Iraq.
We all want to know the freaking truth. The truth! Why is it that every possible twist and turn is a LIE?
Ed*ard Teller @ 149
Loo Hoo. @ 133
I hadn’t read it, ET. Good to see you, btw. How’s mom?
Mom’s GREAT! Just turned 89. Finishing two quilts, while listening to Thom Hartman this morning. An auto repair place just over the hill apparently has non-password wifi, so I get no vacation from the lake. I might have Millie - my mom - blogging before this trip is over.
I’m looking for the earlier link on Tillamn getting multiple shots to the forehead. I’m pretty sure I got it here, but I bookmarked it on my old laptop, which is 1,500 miles away in Alaska.
Wonderful, ET! Would ET’s mom officially be the oldest commenting member of the Lake?
Nobody’s said it yet, so I will:
Tillman.
Oh boy!
Just got back from a nice dinner on the terrace, and I want to throw it all back up. I am trembling. Is this true?
I’ve lost two brothers, neither of them to friendly or enemy fire, but to circumstances beyond my control. My parents are the people for whom I grieve. I also grieve for Pat Tillman’s parents and siblings. It is those of us who are left behind who suffer most. I hope with all my heart for justice for the Tillmans.
TRex @ 12
or, to prevent him from embarassing bush a(s he was going to come out against the Iraqi war).
At lest Nixon knew how to have his scandals one at a time, this multiple overlapping interwoven tapestry of corruption, criminality, and deception of the monkey king steps on some stories that really do need to be told.
Pat Tillman’s murder was obvious to all that were willing to see it, from the very first reports. That his parents and siblings still fight for the truth is a tribute to his spirit. May they have the strength to keep working, against all odds, towards bringing this nation into the light.
Holy crap. This is un-f***ing believable.
Actually, it’s completely believable. If Tillman was fragged, then they sure would want to cover it up (his celebrity would make it a huge story).
My word - this is something that everyone should hear about. The deception on this issue came from orders from the top of our government - the President’s speech writer said he was aware (and made his superiours aware) that Tillman’s death was by US forces, and Bush continued to give speeches saying it was friendly fire.
Un-f***ing believable.
This was thorougly documented years ago by Stan Goff.
Let me get this straight. Does the story mean that he was deliberately murdered? I read somewhere that his diary had been confiscated and destroyed. This is beyond belief. I can understand the Bush administration doing it, but not the army. What is the back story here?
“The three-star general who kept the truth about Tillman’s death from his family and the public told investigators some 70 times that he had a bad memory and couldn’t recall details of his actions.“.
70 times? Who could be so effing stoopid… oh, wait…
dwwenz @ 17
I’m so sorry for your loss. Yes, I think the loss of a child must be the worst of all. Life is not supposed to work that way.
How many believe we’ll get the truth, the complete truth, and the only truth, about Pat Tillman’s death? I don’t. And I beleive that if this U.S. government wanted to sacrifice you for some reason (e.g., to reinforce some assertion of the president) many would question the government’s action.
Tragic, just tragic.
Everythingseemssoneat @ 22
Is this the link?
http://www.fromthewilderness.c.....iles.shtml
I think my sadness eclipses my outrage. Tillman was a true hero. WHY was he (allegedly) murdered by his own soldiers? WHY was his possible murder not adequately investigated? WHY has the cover-up gone on so long? It’s beyond comprehension, and as someone mentioned earlier, if I were in the Tillman family shoes I would be a “basket case” by now. It’s just so terribly sad.
Sweet merciful crap.
Once I’ve collected my lower jaw from the floor, I realize that this revelation explains a heck of a lot.
Kathryn in MA @ 18
argosfalcon @ 19
They’re subjecting us to “outrage overload”. Hoping we cannot keep up with the scandals and crimes, that we’ll just give up.
Anyone feel like giving up?????
eCAHNomics @ 25
Thank you, eCAHN. Every time I am with my parents, I cry inside. No one should out live his/her children.
The question is, where are the soldiers that were with Tillman on that fateful day.?
landofthefree @ 21
Criminal. All part of the tyranny that comes wrapped in the Flag and carrying the Bible.
Mild-mannered me is /this close/ to burning that flag in public. Guess I’d only burn the Bible in effigy: the effigy of a bible-toting, would-be emperor–our own modern-day Caligula.
Feh!
FunnyDiva
Hiya, Diva, don’t think we’ve met yet. Love your handle!
This administration seems to have allergic reactions to truth, integrity, and ethics.
I truly hope the Tillman family gets the truth they deserve, and the nation is listening.
This house of cards is taking longer to fall than one could think possible, but come down it will!!
What needs to happen somehow is to find out who handled the PR…who put out the original fake story.
This is sure telling of a familiar M.O.:
“The three-star general who kept the truth about Tillman’s death from his family and the public told investigators some 70 times that he had a bad memory and couldn’t recall details of his actions.“
We can’t let this go.
TILLMAN
Josh Marshall reminded us to be outraged the other day, wrt AGAG testimony. But there is so much to be outraged about, I’m afraid I’ve become battered.
Knut Wicksell @ 23
They protect their own. As long as “their own” do the C-in-C’s bidding, that is.
With BushCo everything is the message. Remember the quote that THEY create the reality. Well, in this case, the truth wasn’t inspiring. So…poof…they changed it. Just like they did with Jessica Lynch.
Knut Wicksell @ 23
Why are you surprised. The military is famous (as are police forces) for taking care of their own and for doing anything to avoid scrutiny.
Three M-16 bullets to the forehead?
I think anybody can undestand that as cold blooded murder.
And anybody can understand that there is
no legitimate reason to try to claim executive privilege,
other than good old fashioned CYA coverup.
Tillman is great. Hero then, hero now. That is extra criminal for those who killed him and those who commited crimes amid his death.
Then if there are war crimes swirling around this and them trodding on his death to boot walk into office in 2004.
Never give up never surrender, and never let the bastards rest until they are brought to answer for their crimes.
eCAHNomics- Looks right to me. I thought it was a couple years ago but I guess not.
Diva @ 31
This is exactly how this administration was designed to run from the beginning. Perfect.
Funnydiva2002 @ 34
Hi, back at ya, FunnyDiva! I’ve been Diva or DivaBabe, for a long time all around these tubes called the “Internets”. There is plenty of diva attitude to go around, no? :-)
Guess their house of cards is stuck together with “Crazy Glue”
allan_in_upstate @ 41
Amen, Allan.
They’re subjecting us to “outrage overload”. Hoping we cannot keep up with the scandals and crimes, that we’ll just give up.
Anyone feel like giving up?????
Not I, diva.
Expect lots of, um, subtle (cough, cough) reminders from the Right that the Tillmans are atheists, against the war in Iraq… Going to be real hard to overcome that NFL stardom thing, though. This one counts in the heartland.
GordonM @ 24
On Olbermann tonight, Wes Clark said that the decision to (approve the) coverup was surely made “above the three-star level.”
GordonM @ 24
You thinking who I’m thinking??? Gonzo, perhaps???
Diva @ 31
Not a chance…when it rains it poors. Bushco won’t be able to withstand too much more…if this story gains ANY traction at all, the GOP defections will become enormous.
Try though I may I can never come to see how W looks at the world. It’s just so foreign to me. I’ve read book after book-Bush on the Couch, Kelley’s The Family, others. Every time I think I understand it, it slips away. I can’t put myself in their shoes. I actually understand what motivates a suicide bomber completely, but not W. What he has done is so much crueler, and with no excuse.
Holy crap. If this is true, multiple bullets in the forehead, then even the “I’m Pat Fucking Tillman” story is bogus.
Fozzetti @ 47
Their house of cards is stuck together with the blood of other people’s children. For this they must pay — if not before 2009, then after. There are boundless crimes here that have statutes of limitations that run beyond the next 18 months.
And the question is how many people have been willing to hide the truth? Of course, we know about W, Dick, and TurdBlossom…but is everyone willing to drink the koolaid for this evil pursuit? With Gonzo and the hospital lies, ignoring the sub poenas, lies about the war and Plame…how much more will it take for a serious outrage? Rumfield had to be in on this as well. We have a cabal of war criminals. I am not one usually to listen to fear tactics; I’m afraid I’m reaching the point to be afraid not to be afraid. Where are the elder statesmen like Hamilton and Baker now?
Loo Hoo. @ 49
And so we fight! Like the Jewish Partisians….
before anyone goes blambing his fellow soilders are you sure there where no blackwaters in the area.There must be some purpose for private contractors?God bless the Tillmans and Pat the true man,for Pat the truth and nothingf less will do thank you
GordonM @ 24
Bad memory is not exactly high on the list of qualities that a promotions board looks at.
Throw the book at him. Hard. Losing one star isn’t even close to enough punishment. He lied to the family of one of his own fallen. Repeatedly. The man has no honor.
For the DOD lurkers, let me add this: every member of the United States Armed Forces is watching, and they’ve all got the same question rolling through their heads: “If I die, will the DOD lie to my family?“
janda @ 53
Expect a tsunami of a push-back! Brace yourself!
eCAHNomics @ 37
Each revelation is a chink in the armor. We all new they were terrible, evil people; now a chance is emerging where something can be done about it.
Channel the rage.
Give up? Hell, no.
sport the trewps, sport the trewps, sport the trewps!!!
I’m not sure I’m onboard with there being a conspiracy to kill Tillman. Definitely killed by a fellow American, I realize, but couldn’t it be the result of a young, scared to death soldier who just kept firing. Or a ticked off soldier who fired impulsively. I’ve seen no evidence of a conspiracy to kill him. Have I missed something?
three bullet holes in Pat Tillman’s forehead
three bullet holes in Pat Tillman’s forehead
three bullet holes in Pat Tillman’s forehead
TILLMAN!!
Good Q. Who else was there? Special forces? CIA?
Every fracking day. But then I come here and read what all you good people have to say and realize that as long as there is breath in my body, I will fight fight FIGHT to make this country live up to its ideals.
Otherwise, what’s the point?
solai @ 65
Certainly a conspiracy to cover up, though..
Fern @ 40
I don’t see what the military’s interest was. I really don’t. I understand the administration’s interest, but not why the military, which was just carrying out a mission, would kill him. This had to come from upstairs. That’s the implication of my unbelief.
heading out for an errand…be back in a while to catch up with the rest of you…
There is nothing, nothing, Nothing this Government wont do to cover their atrocities. I’m going to have a restless and anguished sleep tonight.
Unfortunately, I think that will, sadly, be better than what the Tillman family has.
solai @ 65
If that were the case, why not just say so from the get-go? The lies continue.
Well lets hope that the storm clouds of outrage keep building up over Washington and the down pour of scorn, and indignation sweeps these insects out of office. And into nice warm jail cells. Call me a dreamer.
solai @ 65
Doesn’t matter - what matters is that they covered up the truth. He was killed by someone who was in our military and if the truth is not told by somebody we will never know. Shouldn’t we find out if that soldier who shot him needs to be disciplined?
JPL @ 69
For sure.
solai @ 65
There was certainly a conspiracy to cover up. As to conspiracy before the fact, what did the murderer(s) think was going to happen with such a high profile victim? The only way they would think they could get away with it is if they were told it would be covered up.
It could have been impulsive, but I find it hard to believe a troop would do that to a football hero. And bullets/bullet wounds? Were they all from the same gun, or more than one?
Tillman wasn’t just killed by another soldier, he was killed by another Army Ranger (I assume). Seems more disturbing when you consider that he was among his elite brethren here, not your ordinary soldier.
TRex @ 68
Exactly! We cannot let the “terrorists” win, can we???
solai @ 65
The autopsy indicates a close group of three shots to the forehead, so I’ve read. If that’s correct, this would be hard to dismiss as an accident or a panic. Someone wanted that man very dead.
The cost of the Iraq war so far, $500 billion dollars. Rand study of the the effectiveness of pro war propaganda, $400,000. The loss of Pat Tilman, and 4000 dead from the coalition of the willing, priceless. The cost of genocide, 600,000 dead Iraqis, and a broken country, cannot be measured. But the death, destruction and falsehoods, belong to the Republican party.
JPL @ 69
Absolutely! Otherwise, why all the extremely detailed effort to cover the truth????
Twain @ 75
Not only did they cover up the truth, they seem to have taken advantage of the ongoing cover-up and expanded the cover-up in order to use the death of a celebrity sports hero (who thought the war was illegal = justification to screw him in death) to “advertise” their fucking illegal war.
correction
terroriststerissThis from Government Executive (which I’d never heard of):
“A retired three-star general criticized for misleading investigators probing the controversial death of Cpl. Pat Tillman could be stripped of a star and face a decrease in retirement pension, Pentagon officials told CNN. Retired Lt. Gen. Phillip Kensinger misled investigators when he said he did not know until after Tillman’s 2004 memorial service that Tillman’s death in Afghanistan was likely the result of ‘friendly fire,’ said acting Defense Department Inspector General Thomas Gimble.”
LS @ 66
Yeah. Had to be shots at close range.
BushCo not only doesn’t tell the truth, they don’t believe in truth. All they believe in is what the message should be. And that becomes their truth.
I’m with Solai at 65. It’s getting a little hysterical in here.
wow trex, I tune in to your trexousity for teh snark but when you get pissed, watch out for teh piss
nice read…more of that please
wigwam @ 51
It does seem that the person who gets blamed for it is usually at least a couple of ranks below the one responsible.
JPL @ 69
Yep.
A panicked soldier, good with his weapon, and Pat Tillman is dead. It’s terrible, horrible, and understandable. Mistakes happen as the bullets are flying.
But the reaction of the DOD . . . that’s a whole ‘nother kettle of fish. Tillman was their poster boy, and they couldn’t stomach having him die from friendly fire. Oh, no — he had to die doing something like storming the beaches of Normandy or climbing San Juan hill or defending the Alamo.
My contempt for the higher eschelon at the DOD knows no bound over the way they have handled this. (Even more contempt than punaise has for Short Ride Joe.) I have sat with too many grieving families to countenance LYING TO THE BEREAVED.
Loo Hoo. @ 85
Oh, the horrors!!! Stripped of a STAR???? No, no, no-anything but that!!!!
This coup has been 30 years in the making, even before Nixon. The tentacles Cheney has into every strategic corner of our government has been carefully planned and deployed. Look at elections alone - subvert the ballot box, plant operatives who will count the votes correctly, own the media who will broadcast the results, stack the courts so objections will be tossed (both state and federal level) - and that’s just elections!
I think Pappy Bush and James Baker have a master plan, but W is getting rattled and panicked, esp with Cheney pushing his own agenda on him, and now he is making stupid mistakes. i think they have assassinated a few and gotten away with it, and W just pulled one too many.
Dover Bitch @ 55
Holy crap. If this is true, multiple bullets in the forehead, then even the “I’m Pat Fucking Tillman” story is bogus.
And if I’m reading it right, the soldier who testified about that, to Waxman, was the one on the ground next to Tillman, who Tillman told to stop sniveling?
A simple motive right there, possibly?
eCAHNomics @ 54
The very, very rich (and entitled) are different from you and I.
And EPU’d from last thread: Cheers!
argosfalcon @ 74
Somebody fluff this guys pillow..)
There were Afghan regulars in his ground if what I remember right. But the fact that his was kill by his own side is not in dispute, his death was used as a propaganda tool, and the real circumstances of his death were covered up. The out come one general is demoted and has to retire early to a lobbying job and is forced to play a lot of golf.
Using executive privilege to cover up a murder. Hmm, does that make Bush an accessory to homicide? Can we impeach now?
Tim @ 88
We didn’t start the rumor that it was a fragging. It was on the news & Wes Clark talked about it. Hardly an hysterical nutcase, he.
Loo Hoo. @ 85
As I mentioned at #51: “On Olbermann tonight, Wes Clark said that the decision to (approve the) coverup was surely made “above the three-star level.”
If he was murdered there had to be a motive.
He was murdered because?
He was about to come out and say the GWOT was a crock and this would be so devastating that they had to use him for propaganda instead?
The murderer was a true believer and zealot and saw Pat as a turncoat and offed him?
Someone was on crack and whacked out?
What could the motive be?
Eureka Springs @ 96
Maybe even put a mint on it! :-)
Diva @ 82
The Suskind quote (paraphrased): It’s a new world; we act, and you study our actions…
Jay @ 78
Anyone know what kind of officer he was? the assumption is that he was a hero, but we don’t know that.
I’m just stunned. This is awful. It is bad enough that he was murdered, but the White House lied about it and covered it up. It makes me feel sick, the way his parents and siblings were treated.
Kathryn in MA @ 93
It’s not “Pappy,” it’s “Poppy,” a nickname that stems from his childhood, though I missed why when I read Kelley’s book & didn’tgo back to find out why.