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bmaz, from the comments in the previous post:
Jane, I have not seen the latest discussion by Kagro X you describe, but the snippet you quoted is pretty accurate from everything I learned from a pretty significant curriculum on Con law and governmental law in law school. Frankfurter and Learned Hand are really two of the historical “go to” guys in these areas, and the conclusion that acceptance is effectively ratification and waiver of objection is exactly the right conclusion to draw. You can see it in play as we speak with the residuals of Watergate and Iran/Contra. This is precisely why I have been a raving lunatic for months at TNH about the necessity of initiating an impeachment investigation, even if it is only as to Gonzales to start. Running out the clock in order to protect our majorities, gain some seats and install a Democratic administration does not cut it. That is akin to doing some public service announcements and hoping crime disappears in your community. The facts and extent of harm must be fleshed out in a formal investigation, the public must be allowed to understand the full nature and extent of what has occurred, and those responsible must be held to account. If not, the ugly beast continues to raise it’s ugly head with impunity in the future.
I for one feel my ass quite chapped from sitting so long on dry powder mountain.
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Janester!
Impeach ABu and his bosses!
Yes.
EPU’d
Congress needs to open an impeachment inquiry on Gonzales. It doesn’t matter if there aren’t enough votes to convict today. The conviction vote is not today. I’m tired of this “boo-hoo, there aren’t enough votes” BS. They need to start the inquiry, not because it’s do-able, but because it is their duty. You are either one of the three co-equal branches, or you’re not. You are either for the Constitution, Congress, or you’re not. If you’re not, then quit picking on Gonzales.
That picture of Shrub and Abu is priceless. Another good one of Abu today (EPU’d from last thread) is at the NY Times. Just look at that line-up of aids behind him–are these really the people Abu really relies on? And is one of them Bradley of the helium voice, or is it simply that Regent University alumni all look the same?
God, that picture is perfect.
I want my party to pull out all stops. And I sure as hell need no lectures about the idea there is nothing we can do.
Oh, and
I for one feel my ass quite chapped from sitting so long on dry powder mountain.
is a goddamned work of genius. Genius!
Go with a Special Prosecuter now. I think Fitz is available.
Who added the Counsel of the Vice President to memo Whitehouse had up? Probably Addington as Marcy suggests, and if that is so then a possible Obstruction of Justice investigation needs to happen right now.
This hearing was about the USA firings. Whitehouse proves Cheney access to DOJ investigations. Lam investigated Cunningham who received bribes from Wade/MZM. MZM’s first contract was with Cheney for some kind of security/surveillance service ($140,000). Documents in the Cunningham investigation, I think, say that Wade had said “Dick” (Cheney) was in his “pocket”.
Lam gets targeted and fired.
Bada Bing.
I know that this is a drastic step, and that it if taken will cause some additional harm to the DOJ, but is it time to ask the Assistant USA’s to stand with the constitution and resign?
It would elevate the issue with the public and force the WH to take the position that the AUSA’s are all wrong, or get rid of Abu?
I am not a lawyer and don’t know any on the prosecutorial side of things, so I am asking those who are, will this work?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 7
I agree. Bust out all the obscure Constitutional weapons. Use inherent contempt. Go full metal Sam Ervin on his ass! Go!
AZ Matt @ 9
But the point is, and I wish that Whitehouse had hammered Abu on this a bit more, that Abu SIGNED the damn thing? Doesn’t he read what the children in the DoJ give him to sign? Or does he just do what they say–the VP wants this signed, and he just does it? I was really disappointed that Whitehouse did not grill him as to what he was thinking when he put his name on that document.
Though, massive kudos to Whitehouse for finding it and blindsiding the AGAG with it.
Thank you, bmaz. This is EXACTLY my thought.
What we need is an action that will open up hearings that will clearly demonstrate to the American people what this Administration is all about. Unfortunately there are so MANY crimes, and there is so MUCH subterfuge that is not adequately reported, and the average American thinks it’s just some whining Democrats wanting the Republicans to ‘play fair’.
Of course, since the MSM is doing nothing to expose this Administration, it is a tough uphill battle. The Dems in Congress MUST be firm and tough on these issues. Censure is a good start, but Impeachment is even better, because the story & the evidence gets out to the public eye.
Unfortunately this Administration has stacked the deck and has been so arrogant about its crimes that it will take drastic, dramatic action to bring the crimes to light, stop the damage to our democracy, and hold them responsible for their actions.
This is the difficult course that our Congresspeople MUST embark on to save the democracy. They must not worry about their personal political futures - them MUST get the truth exposed.
Woodhall Hollow @ 13
It could easily have been autopenned, since other documents were apparently signed that way in the doc dumps.
(enters cringingly) er…what’s a dry powder mountain?
And BTW, IMPEACH, IMPEACH, IMMMMMPEEAAAAACCCHHH!
Man, that picture. Their adorable matching ties!
“Uh, I, uh, love you too, Alberto. Ya queer!”
spurious @ 6
It draws up images of Richard Montalban and Herve Villechaize as, ‘Tattoo’ I can’t even imagine where the fine, Corinthian leather is involved.
The powder can stay dry for a finite period and then it becomes unusable. The MSM will make certain of it. All the Democrat’s dry powder may as well be going up Lindsay’s nose. It is… isn’t it?
A thousand yessses
Doesn’t Congress get that Bush is trying to portray them as useless? If they impeached Gonzales, they would doing something.
Bush vetoes their bills and blames them. He stonewalls investigations, then says they have no evidence and says they should do something else.
Do something, Congress. Impeach Gonzales. You know you want to! Bush is shitting on you! Do something about it! Don’t you have any respect?
LS @ 15
Autopenned? What the hell is that? Are robots signing orders in the executive branch now?
johnSwifty@18
Perfect! The White House is Fantasy Island indeed!
Been awhile since I delurked. Just wanted to say thanks to FDL for live blogging the hearings today. Even if there are not enough votes in the Senate to remove these people from office I have come to the conclusion that it is the responsibility of our elected officials to start proceedings immediately lest we lose our republic forever.
I think the career lawyers at the DOJ could be a key to resolving this whole mess. Just how much more of this can they take before there is open rebellion?
Should there be a walkout or a legitimate threat of mass resignations, this nightmare might be over rather quickly.
Oh god, how I wish there was grainy video of Abu doin’ some blow with Lindsey Lohan. Then maybe we’d get somewhere.
Woodhall Hollow @ 22
Autopenned - stamped with Gonzo’s signature, but not his actual “free hand” signature. Any number of people could have such a stamp.
Concerning the memo produced by Whitehouse at today’s hearing.
From the Raw Story: LINK
Well said. And I’m afraid we’ve waited so long the dry powder may have gotten stolen right behind our backs.
I was just listening to the Ed Schultz Show in my car while I drove my daughter to the train station. Steney Hoyer was on. Ed asked him why, since the American people are so overwhelmingly in favor of opening an impeachment inquiry on Bush, Cheney, et al., the “leadership” wouldn’t go there.
Steney’s response was that the “Dems had so many other issues to pursue” and then listed off health care, etc. Also said he thought impeachment would be “not a good use of their time.”
When I first tuned in, I didn’t know it was Steney who was being interviewed. I thought it was some “old time Southern Democrat” . [Please excuse any perceived slurs. I’m an old timer and recall these old Southern Dems.]
Thus I wasn’t too surprised to hear what I thought was an “old Southern Democrat” taking this line. When I realized it was Steney, I thought “oh yeah.”
What crummy, disillusioned “leaders” these are. Do they really think the American public is going to parse the “leadership’s” comments [quoting Steney again] that they’re trying to deal with all these important issues on the Hill, but they’re being blocked by the Repubs. [Ooop, almost typed “repus.”]
The American people can much more clearly see the value in a party that pursues an inquiry into misdeeds that may or may not lead to a bill of impeachment, than they can twist through these byzantine “nice arguments” made by Hoyer.
I’m ashamed.
It’ll be a lot easier with some help from the right.
itwasntme @ 23
“Eh, boss…da Blame, da Blame! Everyone wants me to take da blame!”
bmaz gets it exactly right, as usual.
LS @ 27
Madness. That is no way to run anything.
I agree; but the key is what you say doesn’t cut it. We have got to have to take over the machinery of government and we need at least 60 Senate votes.
The most likely outcome of the ‘08 election will be Dem President and increased House and Senate Seats but less that 60. The result will be obstruction of the restoration of the rule of law by the Repubs in the Senate and obstruction by the Federal Courts and SCOTUS of prosecutions and Constitutional restoration. If there are 60 Dem votes in the Senate there is a huge club over the SCOTUS; court expansion.
Impeach Abu Already
I wonder what Arlen Specter thinks about that?
johnSwifty @ 18
Alberto’s lips pursed ever so slightly — just like every time he kisses George’s, Dick’s, and Karl’s hineys.
Dang perfect picture.
cleter @ 17
Not funny
LS @ 15
Oh jeebus. We have to ban the use of autopens for signing documents? (Actually, we should. Just say, not valid for legal documents, because they aren’t actually signatures. IANAL, but if I have to actually sign documents to make them legal, then so should government officials.)
—
For the love of Ghu, impeach Gonzales, and Cheney too. I know Darth will be much more difficult to impeach, but that’s why we need to start, like, yesterday.
Dear Steney:
FU. You work for us. Your job is to protect the Constitution. Do your damned job. If you don’t want to, then leave.
Thank you
It’s quite simple:
Dear Mr.
GonzalezJosh BoltenFielding,You have 3 choices:
a. AG AG MUST resign
b. DAG MUST appoint special prosecutor
c. We begin Impeachment Hearings
THERE IS NO ‘d.’
We need your answer by 5pm Friday.
Woodhall Hollow @ 34
Especially, if Addington is the shadow AG (with access to such a stamp), and Cheney is the shadow POTUS.
It is lunacy to sit on a pile of powder when in the midst of a monsoon of Republican power consolidation.
hackworth @ 19
Yes, can we all agree now to this immenently fair proposal: Death penalty to the first Republican who says, “This has been investigated fully in the Senate Judiciary Committee. The Attorney General has answered every question put to him, and no wrong-doing has been found. This is just old news.”
I’m sick of belonging to the Stockholm Syndrome party.
Woodhall Hollow @ 34
Especially, if Addington is the shadow AG (with access to such a stamp), and Cheney is the shadow POTUS.P J Evans @ 38
When I was a title examiner years ago, the signature on a deed had to be an actual signature (notorized) and match precisely with the representation of the names on the documents. The documents enabling Goodling and Sampson to hire/fire, were clearly autopenned.
Gonzo can claim no knowledge of such documents.
GeorgeSimian @ 21
George, you said much more clearly what I was trying to say above: DO something, Dems!!
Autopen = a machine most Senate & House offices have. It has a pen that’s programmed to reproduce the Congresscritter’s signature. You put a letter in, the autopen signs the signature, so it appears that the Congress critter signed the letter [to a constituent].
nomolos @ 38
Well, no. I imagine Bush is something of a homophobe and would respond in a derogatory manner to male affection.
Good doggie Berto! Sit! Roll over! Fetch! Goooood doggie….!
I can’t take it anymore. I guess they’re going to put contempt charges on Miers and Roberts and see what happens. That’s something.
The minute they impeach Gonzo, the press will be covering Congress and it will look like they are actually doing something.
When the circumstance arises that your good cause does not necessarily have the votes, then you take it to the people directly. Perhaps my party needs to consider this option. If the polls are to be belleved, obviously the Democrats have been failing in this endeavor. Miserably.
It is not the votes we have today. It’s the votes we will have after the hearings. We need impeachment hearings not to get the ball rolling. However, Abu should not be the target. He’s just a bright shiny object to distract us from bush and Cheney.
My new slogan
SEPTEMBER==IMPEACHMENT
(After all you don’t launch a new product in August, right?)
GeorgeSimian @ 50
Exactly. Like when they forced the Republicans to filibuster.
The public likes backbone and they hate Bush and his administration. Thus, they like it when Democrats stand up to Bush and make him eat it.
It is pretty simple really.
Why does it seem like Sessions has about 45 minutes to “ask questions” [sic] and Whitehouse seems to get about 1-1/2 minutes?
Someone needs to ask Gonzo who is authorized to sign for him.
Fuck not having the votes. Fuck Hoyer and Pelosi and whoever else. The popular support is there, and the Constitution demands it.
Let me get this straight. In the 6 years since the attack on 9/11 the Al Qaeda homebase threat has grown from only Afghanistan to Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iraq.
That’s progress?
-GSD
nomolos @ 38
I agree, nomolos.
spurious @ 6
‘Xactly the way Hill looks at Bill.
Dry Powder Mountain
:-)
“Where ya’ goin’ dad?”
“There’s a mountain out there son. And I aim to torch it down.”
it’s ugly head
should be
its ugly head
*xyz @ 43
Exactly correct. The monsoon will blow away all the powder. What happened to Harriet Miers. The five days was up and her atty wrote a letter that explained (again) that she did not have to testify before congress. What happens now?
Can’t congress throw some contemptuous individual in the dungeon, just once real soon?
Is that the picture from their civil union ceremony?
I heard Leahy say that he was going to go back over the transcripts again.
I think they have Abu nailed and want it to be airtight.
I also think Cheney is going to be getting an appointment for one of those colonoscopy’s soon. His hemmoroids just met his polyps on the way to his throat after that memo came out.
Aynsley @ 40
correction
We need your answer by
5pm Friday3pm Monday. Got to hit the news cycle.I don’t know about my spelling here of sycophant but the photo simply says ‘fawning sycophant’ to me.
Bustednuckles @ 64
Memo?
mauimom @ 54
Probably because he was allowed to use the time of the rethugs who did not have the stomach to show up.
eCAHNomics @ 59
o/t
This is the way she looked at Obama at the first debate, but someone obviously coached her not to do that at the YouTube debare.
tommy yum @ 45
Some in my party can be a disgraceful bunch of willing hostages.
realworld @ 51
Hey now, don’t be takin’ nothin’ off the table. There’s hell to pay when you start takin’ shit off the table!
I think the next step is to go ahead and get Fitz in there to testify. The stuff Whitehouse has brought out today is just gold. The MSM and Snowjob spinners can have their way with it, but it is what it is. The OVP is all over this thing and is now shown to be compromised. Conversations with Fitz will now have a very directed point of reference (thanks Tattoo), and the natural proceedings should show collusion between the DOJ and OVP. It might be a twofer!
mauimom @ 30
I heard a CNN cut-in today on the radio and they played a clip of Mitch McConnell talking about how the Dems aren’t doing anything except a witchhunt, and it would be nice if they actually put forth some proposals. COMPLETELY unchallenged in the report.
Ironic I hear that on the day when the Federal minimum wage goes up. Oh, and the Dems made major concessions (I say caved) to get it signed by Shrub.
But NOOOoooo…despite this case and many others, the Dems are portrayed as losers in the press. HELLO?!?
Dem “leaders”: When working with Repubes and the Conglomerate Media, it has been clear for many years that you’re damned if you do, damned if don’t. How hard is this to understand? Get the crooks out and restore the Constitution already! Jeezus, it’s all so obvious now, makes you wonder if some of them are “in on it,” doesn’t it…
tommy yum @ 56
I think the votes are there in the House to vote articles of impeachment against Gonzales and they should do it. They will never be the votes in the Senate for a conviction. In reading blog comments there seems to be the confusion about the articles and being removed from office.
The one saying OVP had oversight of DOJ just like EOP.
The one Whitehouse came out with.
spurious @ 6
looks like magilla gorilla, no?
Bustednuckles @ 74
Thanks, haven’t been keeping up.
Re: autopen
One of the (many) scenes in “Sicko” that got to me was the doctor who seemed so blase that other people were using his (stamped) signature to deny people insurance coverage for medical procedures.
Maybe I’m just an old-fashioned Old Fart, but no way in hell would I rent out my signature for other people to use and abuse as they see fit.
“This shows clar as can be that you are not being straightforward to this committee. You are deceiving us.” Chuck Shumer.
The Dems won’t even deal properly with Lieberman. Do we think they’ll confront Cheney, Rove and Bush?
Something needs to be done other than more hearings. Spector is starting to show some life. Do SOMETHING other than these mundane hearings. I know the wheels of justice turn slowly, but continously bringing the Bushies before Congress and subjecting them to these hearings plays into their hands: the do-nothing but hate Bush Congress is at it again. Show some backbone.
hackworth @ 62
Hackworth - the House Judiciary Committee is voting tomorrow at 10:15 am about whether to hold Miers and Bolten in cintempt. I do not know what happens (as opposed to can or should happen) after that.
Sparkles the Iguana @ 60
Oh, Sparkles, I love you.
And I love your wonderful name as well.
boxer @ 75
Go here to catch up on the Cheney thingy:
http://thenexthurrah.typepad.com/the_next_hurrah/
Steve-AR @ 72
Any R senator up for reelection would have to vote for it. Once all the bad stuff is put together and played live on cable news, the public, the majority of which already favors impeachment, will be enraged. That gets you pretty close to the # needed, I think.
Ok those googgly eyes in that photo is really creepy.
bonkers @ 71
Nope, I don’t wonder anymore. The Lady of the Lake, her fine self, brought up The New World Order…I’m not saying, I’m just saying…
boxer @ 76
Here’s the letter
I am watching shumer eviscerate abu.
It looks like ABU is smirking.
Holy shit. this is the money shot.
perris @ 75
I vote yes on both of the ape-like humanoids.
cleter @ 17
FUCK YOU
Steve-AR @ 73
There is no confusion on that with this group. You may be new to FDL but this has been very well discussed.
What you may not understand if that the impeachment process involves detailed hearings in which evidence is presented and which can be used to educate the American people. That is the key. If there is enough public pressure for conviction, when the time for that comes, the votes will be there. If they are not, it will just be more obvious who is standing in the way of the weight of public opinion.
It is shirking duty to avoid the hearings because the votes aren’t there today.
Steve-AR @ 35
Court packing will just make the next Republican iteration that much worse. Democrats have to have an impeachment inquiry and hearings and publicize this as long and as loudly as the MSM will permit. The incoming Democratic president should then declare the principle of the “unitary executive” antithetical to rule of law under the Constitution (the phrase sounds like something from Mussolini or Franco) and anyone who has endorsed it unfit to hold judicial office. This President should publicly ask Alito to resign and Roberts to step down as chief Justice. The court will be sabotaging any Democratic administration anyway, so it’s best to preemptively call its legitimacy into question.
Good article on inherent contempt.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....01802.html
Did Gonzo commit to letting Fitz testify?
“Electrode Al” is a smirking little punk with no regard for laws or Constitutional norms.
In that regard he’s a lot like the smirking little punk that brought him along. Both of them need to have that smirk smacked off their faces.
mauimom @ 82
Thanks…..iguanas are sticklers for correct punctuation.
albert fall @ 93
He recused himself.
BMAZ,
We are finally there…been a long slog has’nt it? Claus
albert fall @ 93
Said it wasn’t his decision to make iirc.
eCAHNomics @ 59
Reminds me of how Nancy would look at Ronny from a step and one-half behind him. We called her “the beamer” back then.
albert fall @ 93
He claims he, ‘was recused.’ Which is interesting, because I thought that was something one needed to do to oneself. Hmmmm….
eCAHNomics @ 84
I support impeaching Gonzales if they determine that it can be done politicaly. That is, if they have the votes. Failing to impeach him would to too horrible to contemplate though so if it is decided they can’t go forward I would understand.
Woodhall Hollow @ 13
Did anyone catch the date of this document?
Unbelievable.
“Do you want to be Attorney General? … I’ve never heard anything like this.”
re: His statement at the press conference. He says he corrected it.
“Who did you talk to?”
A: “I didn’t talk to anyone.”
“Who did your spokesman talk to?”
[gets answer from zombie behind him]
“What did he say?”
“I don’t know.”
“Did you clarify the discrepency with the leadership of this committee?”I don’t think I was innacurate in my testimony.”
The crime was committed in the Judiciary Hearing Room, with the lips, by Mr, Syncophant (sp).
I sure hope that Keith Olbermann’s folk are watching this. There’s a pile of quote-worth material here for his show.
And Abu deserves today’s Worst Person in the World.
Bush “anguished” over the Libby verdict for “days” and weeks. Gonzales spent 5 minutes tossing around the merits of some death penalty cases.
Talk about elitist thugs.
-GSD
johnSwifty @ 101