(Image via Twolf1. Alternate image via Cozumel: Texas Toast, the continuing saga...)
Attorney General Alberto Gonzales is set to testify today before the Senate Judiciary Committee. Testimony will begin at 9:30 am ET -- and will be covered live on C-Span3. I'll try to liveblog to the best of my ability this morning as the hearing moves forward -- but that requires a little cooperation from all of you. Please, for the love of the servers and the sanityof your iveblogger -- hold comments to a minimum. And cut the one-liners at the start of the thread altogether. Thanks.
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SEN. DURBIN QUESTIONS CONTINUED: Do you have any idea how you make the United States look by failing to completely answer these questions? Would it be legal for a foreign government to subject a US citizen to subject any of the interrogation techniques that we just talked about? Gonzales stalls in answering and stammers quite a bit. "We obviously would demand humane treatment of American citizens in accordance to the laws." Do you believe that these techniques would be outside the norms of international law? Gonzales recuses himself from answering. Durbin calls him on it -- you recuse yourself any time you are asked a question you don't want to answer because it might make you look bad. Do you have any idea how this weaseling refusal to answer this makes the US look to other nations in terms of human rights and international law? Your ambiguity, you personally and this Administration, whether through signing statements or memos, are trying to leave just the sort of loopholes for conduct which we condemn from others around the world. [CHS notes: Go Durbin!]
Can you explain to me how five years after the Guantanimo prison was opened, there is yet to have a single conviction? Gonzales blames the lawyers who represent the inmates and the legal process. Durbin says that he suggested that 5 years ago that he and Specter tried to create a legal framework that would have allowed for streamlined legal process and you rejected it wholesale -- and your conduct since then has wasted years and simply proved Sen. Durbin's point.
SEN. FEINGOLD QUESTIONS: I am about to introduce a censure resolution against the President for his illegal conduct. As you probably know, I am a member of the Intelligence committee and I have had an opportunity to review the classified matters at issue here today -- and I think that your testimony here today has been misleading at best as to the circumstances. As you know, I am prevented by law from elaborating further, but I intend to send you a classified letter which details all of the reasons why that is. Gonzales then accuses Feingold of not understanding what was going on in the intel committee. Feingold says that he's appalled by Gonzales attempt to shift responsibility for the NSA domestic spying program onto Ashcroft. Also, limiting the briefing on this program to the Gang of Eight violates the Security Act. And, finally, you are the one that tried to take advantageof AG Ashcroft while he was in the ICU.
Feingold goes through all of the misstatements made by Gonzales under oath. When you look at all of your misstatements together, what I see is a pattern of conduct which was an intentional attempt to mislead Congress again and again. Shouldnt the head of the DOJ be held to a higher standard than that? Gonzales says where he's made mistakes, he's tried to correct the record and do better.
Do you agree that the potential liability for companies for failing to follow the privacy laws is an important part of the enforcement scheme of our privacy laws? As a general matter, yes.
SEN. KENNEDY QUESTIONS: Did you preview the President's executive order on torture recently? Yes. Were their documents prepared to that end on review? Gonzales hesitates to answer and stammers. Kennedy asks that he get back to the committee with said documents. Goes on to talk about prohibition on activities outside the bounds of decency and humanity "such as sexual and indecent acts undertaken for the purposes of humiliation," "threatening the individual with sexual mutilation," "denegration of religious practices," etc. If those are prohibited, why aren't you willing to prohibit all of the activities which have been identified as improper? Gonzales says obviously some activities are beyond the pale and other activities are not so clear -- so I can't talk about them in open session. Kennedy says that he is basically saying that the activities in the Exec. Order are expressly prohibited, but the other activities don't rise to the importance that they were listable as prohibited -- so they may not be prohibited. Gonzales says that he's not saying they aren't, but it will be determined based on parameters in the executive order and by the Director of the CIA.
McConnell was on MtP and would not comment on these. Is it lawful to leave torture hanging out there as a threat? Gonzales says we aren't engagng in torture. Kennedy makes the point that there is a question of extreme psychological harm.
Let's go to another issue: diplomats receive political briefings at the Peace Corps. We've already had some fifteen government agencies briefed by Karl Rove's political office on targeting Democrats for defeat prior to the election. Did you get these sorts of briefings at the DOJ? Gonzales says not that he knows of. [CHS notes: well, that's really reassuring, isn't it?] Kennedy asks him to look into whether these briefings violated the Hatch Act.
About the civil rights division cases -- the Bush Administration has filed only two cases based on race discrimination and voting rights, and then it took until 2006 for these to be filed. Do you think this reflects accurately what is going on in terms of discrimination in the US? Gonzales says no, he doesn't, and he thinks the person from the DOJ who testified about the civil rights division cases was wrong.
SEN. LEAHY QUESTIONS: When Monica Goodling testified under oath, she said she crossed the line on hiring career personnel for political screening for career hires, including for Assistant USAttys? Were you aware that she was doing this? Gonzales says he doesn't recall being aware of that. Were other officials at the WH aware that she was doing that? Not that Gonzales is aware of knowing about. [CHS notes: Good lord, that's a hedgy little answer, isn't it?] "I can't recall being aware of instances where she may have asked improper questions." Do you ever consider political affiliation, organizational involvement, and other partisan qualifications for career hires that are not to be politicized? No. And we've changed our policy internally, but he doesn't know if they've communicated to the WH that this is not appropriate hiring criteria for career hires at DOJ.
On May 23rd, Goodling testified under oath that she had an uncomfortable conversation with her before she left the Department. You said you did not talk to her about the matters before the committee. Gonzales says that he did have that conversation with her -- trying to "console an emotionally distraught woman." She came into his office and she was emotionally distraught...Leahy says that we sent you written questions, and in no way did you ever indicate that you ever had this conversation. Your testimony is now that you did have this conversation that you failed to tell us about previously? Gonzales says that as far as he knew nothing improper or illegal had happened here. He wants to put it "in context." [CHS notes: This is the second time the "in context" malarky has come up. Seems to me he uses this dodge and phony show tactic to filibuster having to answer the question -- and it's a bit of a tell as to where he's hiding something from the committee.]
There have been 260 applications, you have approved only 14 claims, and denied 40-plus others. Denied benefits to a US Forest Service firefighter in AZ who was working to contain a fire, and your department couldn't determine whether he was engaged in "strenuous activity" when he had his heart attack. I don't know what you consider strenuous activity, but trying to stop a fire is a bit strenuous...this is picayune, and it is wrong to do this to the families of some very brave people. What are you going to do to clear that up? Gonzales says that it has taken too long, blames the drafting of the regulations and the bureaucracy taking too much time to process claims.
SEN. SPECTER QUESTIONS: Does the DAG have the authority to appoint a special counsel to prosecute contempt proceedings -- and it would be his authority, and his alone to make that decision? Yes. [CHS notes: Holy crap, I think Specter just issued a shot across the WH bow...excellent.] On to NSA programs. Gonzales says he can't answer it outside a classified setting. Specter says that he should review the transcript very carefully and, candidly, he doesn't find Gonzales' testimony very credible. It strains credulity that you would go to Ashcroft's ICU room for anything other than this classified program -- the man was under sedation. All of the attendant circumstances are that we're dealing with the Terrorist Surveillance Program. I suggest you review your testimony very carefully -- your credibility may be breached to the point of being actionable.
I asked you about the case involving Charlton. Are you aware that the defendant for whom you were seeking the death penalty that the testimony against him was mostly from drug dealers and addicts. Gonzales gives Specter (a former prosecutor) on what is appropriate for public discussion about these sorts of things and essentially accuses Specter of undermining the government by doing so. Specter lets him have it for not taking his freaking job seriously -- that five to ten minutes is appalling and that Gonzales sucks at his job. [CHS notes: I'm paraphrasing here, but Specter is pissed.]
Let me cover another subject briefly -- that of oxycontin. Your department entered into a plea agreement with the producer of the drug. Their actions, knowing that there were problems with the drug, constitutes a reckless disregard for human life and that they deliberately misled the public to sell a product -- which would be potential prosecution for murder in the second degree -- this supports a finding of malice. Why would you simply enter into a plea for the payment of a fine? Gonzales says that it would have been too hard to show intent or malice of the corporate executives, and that he took advantage of the statute passed by COngress to hold them accountable without having to show intent. How many deaths were there? Did you review this case? Gonzales said he wasn't involved in reviewing this case.
Voting, but gavel goes to Sen. Whitehouse, who has already voted.
Am going to have to start another thread because the comment volume has started to drag the servers...
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Schumer!
IMPEACH!
DEZ?
Specter on fire about the death penalty being decided in 5-10 minutes.
Nice Uno there, jayt
Specter just referred to “United States Attorney Charletan“.
Disgraceful, and on purpose.
curse you jayt! …getting the zed.
Specter - the only way to deter white collar crime is that there should be a jail term!!!
Um, Scooter??????????
Who did he mean, LS?
We’re going to keep going with no recess.
Whitehouse up.
How many deaths were there? How much did the company make?
Oxcontin
I wish Specter would also talk about the Chiquita and other Columbian terrorist plea agreements. DOJ has repeatedly let corporations off easy. Kudos to Specter for beating him up on it.
Whitehouse is PISSED. Listen to his voice.
I’m completely surprised at Specter’s performance.
I want to be delighted, but . . .
Whitehouse up and already pissed.
Loo Hoo. @ 9
Charlton the USA.
Charlatan, means lying trickster.
Whitehouse so mad, he can hardly catch his breath…
From Sen Whitehouse: You intended to deceive us.
Back to the Program with Whitehouse.
I believe you intended to deceive us, to lead us away, from the truth about the answer to the question of dissent on the Program Mr. Comey referred to.
I still think these folks have some more damning info on Gonzales.
The case is like water building up behind a dam….The water is getting higher and higher each time Gonzales speaks for himself.
-GSD
Gonzo looks a little overwhelmed, reeling under the implications of what he may be on the hook for regarding perjury.
Abu - “no comprende”
Abu doesn’t understand the question because he wants a DOJ where the WH has undue influence. It was why he was sent there.
Let me just point out that it took Senator Whitehouse to point out the improper influence of the White House.
Punny guy, but it was bound to happen.
Whitehouse going back to his chart showing information flow bewteen White House and DOJ
How long will the hearing last today?
kinda interesting that the Attorney General is so obviously the least competent attorney in the room.
radiofreewill @ 20
the arrogance of these “people” is amazing. that gonzo is just actually considering this now…
jayt @ 26
I thought Orin Hatch was a JD?
emptywheel @ 12
I know a guy - good friend from High School - who was earning over $200K year as an attorney who got hooked on OXYcontin. His addiction took his job, friends, partner and childfrom him. He lost his license. OXY was being marketing as a safe non-addictive pain killer fraudulently (the company knew it was not non-addictive). DOJ fined only the corporation and assigned NO RESPONSIBILITY to company officers who fraudulently asserted the non-addictiveness as fact. The company made billions of dollars. OXYCONTIN sells at $70 a pill on the street.
LS @ 15
Paul K. Charlton, former US Attorney for AZ. An outstanding record as both AUSA & USA by any yardstick.
An insulting mispronunciation, unfortunately about par for Specter…
OVP involved.
jayt @ 26
Not interesting; truly tragic and a hallmark of this administration.
Why is the Office of the VP in the Loop with regards to the DOJ? Gonzo: I don’t know I will have to go back and look at that.
My God. Whitehouse is amazing.
OXYCONTIN sells at $70 a pill on the street.
General rule of thumb on the street is one dollar per milligram, fwiw.
How many laughs in the background are we upto now?
WH: What the hell does the OVP have to do with internal DOJ matters?
AGAG: That’s a good question:
Audience laughs hysterically, so as to not cry.
Whitehouse going after OVP now for getting involved in DOJ bidness.
Abu is troubled by his own memo!!
johnSwifty @ 32
and no accident … bush definitely wants an incompetent attorney, but a competent party hack, in that spot …
Whitehouse pointing out that WH-DoJ communication channels used to be 7 people, but have become hundreds under Gonzo.
Gonzo had testified that he wanted to clean up the mess.
Whitehouse shows Gonzo a memo signed by Gonzo, from May, that says OVP and EOP are to be treated as equals receiving info on criminal investigations - why?
Gonzo doesn’t know.
Whitehouse says the memo goes on to say that that this access to ongoing civil and criminal cases is to be given to the OVP also.
Gonzo acts like this is new news to him.
Wow, that is troubling, I don’t know how that got in there. (read see Cheney)
Ooh…..OVP allowed to follow the Libby trial from the inside…….
Oh.
-GSD
No more funds for DoJ until this guy is gone. I don’t care about ongoing investigations — nothing is more important than getting rid of this guy. Dems need to stand up and say “No more money for you or your department.”
Holy shit. Cheney’s takeover documented.
Whitehouse is on to Darth Cheneys council and his maipulation of the DOJ
THIS IS THE NEWS OF THE DAY…….Another Cheney fingerprint
Full circle. Whitehouse is SO GOOD.
Whitehouse: So why are all these various Offices having access to DOJ investigations?
Helen @ 39
Very troubled. So troubled he’ll have to look into it.
This is a humongous mess!
Shorter Sheldon: Abu, you’re a concern troll
There is no way this man is running the DOJ. He’s like an empty storefront.
Wasn’t there one conviction from Guantanamo - David Hicks, who finally pled guilty to something like a parking violation, in exchange for getting to go home?
Shorter Gonzo: Oh shit, how did you find that? We’re all toast.
GSD @ 44
OMG: you are right.
‘k, is that illegal? srsly. /snark
Whitehouse asking Gonzo to support his bill to revert WH-DoJ communication channels to 7 people.
Gonzo giving him the flatface with no commit.
GSD @ 44
Who was supervising FITZ during four months of pre-trial and during trial?
Has any senator said that this is about achieving one party rule?
LS @ 45
HOLY SHIT, indeed. Did any of you legal eagles know this one was coming????!!!
I don’t really thionk you can resstore the DOJ. People tell me they demoralized. People are gone now.
Reading the Denver Post commentary from current AUSA
Whitehouse is KILLIN him!!!!
RESIGN!! IMPEACH!!!
Not only is the politicalization of the DOJ unlawful it is UNAMERICAN!
fdl reader @ 55
The memo specifically authorized DOJ communication with Cheney’s Chief of Staff - did that apply when Scooter was stil there?
What a SMACKDOWN by Whitehouse…..
Can someone say VICE PRESIDENT WHITEHOUSE!
That’s it!!! I’m moving to Rhode Island si I can claim Sheldon Whiotehouse as MY SENATOR.
Whitehouse, how can you help solve the problem when you are the problem?
OMG - Whitehouse - I realize that by saying this I am subjecting my self to reprisals from extremely ruthless people who have punished others.
The moral of the department is good…because I am surrounded by people with the same goals, I look not at the bottom of my shoe sir!
He thinks the morale is good!! Only if you are from Regent U!
Franco @ 64
Are you kidding? We need him in the committee.
Neil @ 58
David Margolis.
Gonzo You ARE the problem.
He disagrees thinks its great that all those people left.
he works hard doncha know?
Gonzales is behaving as if he didn’t hear what Whitehouse said.
Enough with the friggen baby steps. Time for someone to step up and take some meaningful action.
As they say in AA (This is for Shrub and Abu) trying is dying.
Alberto, shut the fuck up.
-GSD
Did the chair just give Whitehouse 20 minutes to go at it while everyone else was out voting? If so, well done.
screaming…and trying to save his job..hes out’a hear
It’s going to take some fiery speeches at the end, or we are headed to another episode of “All Talk, No Action.”
Abu;
We have had lots of changes in personnell, some people say thats a good thing.
Your next, jerk.
Oh god, more protecting children from predators hackery
Gonzo…
Waaaaaaaaaaaa…you’re being mean…I’m just doing the work of the people in this country, which is W and Dick and Libby.
OVP is a frickin’ virus on government.
My heart is pounding from the account of this hearing. Even second-hand it is both riveting and terrifying. This is dander-raising stuff. I hope Leahy and company go for the jugular before the day is out. The cheney business seems to be the money shot, the mother load of mother loads. A Gonzo impeachment proceeding will bring out all the documents.
You know, we complain like crazy that things are going so slow, but what’s happened since January is like Watergate on crack. Our fear is that the thugs will run out the clock, but I’m beginning to think that 25 percent approval ratings and the Democratic fund-raising advantage are going to make that a lot harder to pull off. This is milkable into next summer. At some point the self-preserving thugs are going to throw somebody off the boat. That somebody is Abu.
Fern @ 77
Right now, while they’re gone, he IS the chair
So Abu just said “Fuck the Constitution and law”!
We just want to make it safe for you…
It’s all about the terra, until it gets all ooogy, and than it’s all about protecting the kiddies from whatever scares you.
gonzo impeachment … first step…
but, be ready for the cancelling of the 08 elections. that’s one of the trumps waiting in the wings …
‘It’s important for the American people to know the cawn-text’ is one of his ‘I’m bullshitting’ tics.
Tithonia @ 71
His mind is shuting down keep hitting him on this topic even though he might not be able to answer. We can break him!
Abu is basically telling Cardin that he is allowed to break the rules to defend himself. In other words, the rules are (as always in Bushworld) only applicable to everyone else.
Was Abu’s voice beginning to quaver there?
Cede some more time to Whitehouse and I honestly think he might cry.
Great live-blogging, everyone-thanks. But if I read these comments correctly, is Abu pointing the Committee at Cheney.
In other words, Gonzo will cover for Bush and Rove, but Cheney? Tell me its not my imagination but Abu seems to be telling the Committee that Darth can go fuck himself.
Cardin grilling Abu! Get him Cardin!
Did the White House give permission to release the info on the pre-Ashcroft meeting? Gonzo- no.
Impeachment was designed by the founding fathers with someone like Gonzales specifically in mind.
Alberto is the firewall. That is why Bush is unwilling to yield. However he is so corrupt that he is making it inevitable that he gets thrown under the bus by the Republican Party.
Once that happens, the whole place goes up in flames.
Even Specter, Grassley and Sessions are very wobbly on Alberto.
-GSD
This Cheney stuff is astounding. Whitehouse has the documents. He’s got the evidence that OVP has same powers as EOP.
Shadow government.
Impeach Now!!!
Cardin: We need a complete record. What are the details of the hospital visit?
Gonzo: It was my intent to provide more information on the hospital visit.
mc @ 92
No Whitehouse is pointing to Cheney via a Gonzo memo
emptywheel @ 23 Punny guy, but it was bound to happen.
Clue me in??
Wow. Recess. Angry shouting from the gallery.
The RESIGN CHORUS!! Yea!!
The gallery is getting restless!
mc @ 90
I’m watching this and I dont get that impression at all.
someone in the gallery yelling, “RESIGN!!!”
*xyz @ 97
Gonzales, Cheney, Bush…
LS @ 95
That means Addington is reviewing DOJ cases. Addington, folks.
Brief recess.
They were screaming “CRIMINAL RESIGN”
dammit - I stepped away - what was the Cheney tie-in? Anyone, please?
Neil @ 98
Whitehouse shows the hidden designs of The White House; it’s not just punny, it’s pithy with irony, succulent and dripping…oh, my!
ok..need to break away and earn $$ to pay bills….thanks so much!
“You disgrace my son’s service” yelled form the gallery.
Sheehan in the house?
Folks: please stay on topic.
It’s really, really important to Christy.
jayt @ 110
Sen Whitehouse tied docs from DOJ over Abu’s sig that show OVP access to DOJ crim and civil cases
We should start shouting about the revelation, that Darth Cheney was involved in getting briefing from the DOJ…..repeat after me…OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE
Whitehouse has caught Gonzo issuing a procedural memo in May that specifies OVP lines of communication with DOJ. Whitehouse has the memo. Gonzo was/is too stupid to realize that the procedural memo would be identified as having any meaning. idjit.
realworld @ 105
And the order really matters … It’ll be “interesting” to see what the veep-for-life’s next move is.
RE: Specter’s call for Special Counsel on USA firing
Is this guy on the up and up or is he trying to get the fix in?
It will be intresting to see how and when the many stream media speaks about the Cheney conection with Gonzo
So now after this debacle the Dems will be portrayed as on a fishing trip and orchestrating a spectacle.
RevDeb @ 103
thanks RevDeb. I thought I was alone in feeling this way.
realworld @ 106
Them too. Absolutely.
If they want to start with impeaching Gonzales alone, I guess I am okay with that.
Gonzales is the lowest hanging fruit, and he’ll lead us to the others if we impeach him.
Censure resolutions against any of them would serve only to muddy the waters and facilitate the Bush administration’s delay tactics.
Woodhall Hollow @ 107
This suprises you? Didn’t a lot of us figure Darth Vader’s hands were all over it?
OVP Monitoring of “Justice.”