I figure a lot of people missed this terrific discussion from Sunday night, where an Iraqi medical relief worker, Dr. Maryam, who cares for war orphans, told us bluntly:
Stop telling lies to yourself American. We know that your racist brutal murdering war criminal troops came from your society and reflect its values. we know that because we see how they behave and have to bury their victims. If you are stupid enough to think we feel anything but hatred and contempt for your soldiers and the country that sent them to make war on my people then you are a fool.
As to Saddam bad though he was your country is far worse.
And then this:
Irak is a better transliteration. The quote you are referring to is this:
“The only thing these sand niggers understand is force and I’m about to introduce them to it.”
And is from a senior American officer. It is a perfect example of how your troops regard us. Which is why we highlight it.
As digby points out, our immoral, imperialistic policy of mass murders corrupts the good men and women we send there:
Our military is occupying a country in the middle of a violent civil war. The soldiers in this occupation are being deployed over and over again to try to "win" something that isn't even defined. To my way of thinking it's a miracle that so many of them are able to keep it together at all. Of course, there are some crazed psychos among them and probably some serious psychological damage among a fair number of others. And because of the macho, group pressure and people like Bush and this author egging them on instead of showing mature leadership, there is little to curb this behavior other than some rather quaint appeals to honor and duty, which must be sounding rather hollow to a lot of them at this point.
Iraq is creating monsters everywhere, from terrorists, to extremists to damaged American soldiers who are so tired from repeated deployments that they are losing track of what is normal.
Yup.
We need to get out of Iraq for a host of moral and national security reasons. We need to get out of Iraq because our criminal imperialistic enterprise is destroying the fragile constitutional balance that has been responsible for keeping us (often unsuccessfully, it's true) from some of the worst impulses power plus human nature can jointly contrive.
And then, we have to eradicate from even the Democratic Party the belief that we have any place using force to tell people in the world what to do with their lives. . . all in the name of "liberty."
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DOS?
zero?
Lies,
The staple of Republican power.
singles?
shoot! (kicks pebble…) my machine is sooooo slow!
Hi Parachutec. Thought you were taking a breather?
do-si-do @ 6
Well, I’ve been changing my focus in FDL work away from writing, and it’c been happening for a while.
I gave up my regular Saturday Late Nite slot, but I’ll pop in now and again.
What genius asked her the question that provoked such a response?
Pachacutec @ 7
Thanks for bringing these remarks forward. I can’t follow FDL closely on weekends…
and NO! I don’t kid myself that Iraq is just so grateful that we have, er, outstayed our welcome (understatement of the year for me). The US (we) are now the global bully. God help us.
Here’s the question:
BigMitch @ 8
I think the commenters did very well, and received her warmly, and gracefully.
Go back and have a look.
just thanks.
Our force, military might, whatever, must be used only for our self-defense.
Genocides, mass-murders of any kind should be dealt with by the United Nations.
The world community must decide when intervention with force is necessary.
Democracy and freedom spring from within a people-it can’t be forced down their throats…
Pachacutec @ 11
I agree. The questioner, who I referred to as a genius, was myself. Sorry, I don’t know the emoticon for self-depricating sarcasm.
That was a very refreshing thing with Maryam last evening. I get so weary of my writing and talking being confined and so bland. It was sort of vicarious for this reader. And what Maryam said is the truth.
amen. thank you pach.
that’s what i want - an anti-imperialist democratic party.
Last night’s session with Maryam was momentous. I couldn’t sleep for hours afterwards.
I was not surprised by anything she said. If I had tried to put myself in her place, I might have written even stronger words.
Still, it was breathtaking to see them in print. Even anti-war blogs do not ever portray how it really is for Iraqis and how they feel about the U.S.
Bush destroyed Iraq so horrifically by firing all Iraqi government officials, removing all military, police, health, and school officials, and letting the ministries and government buildings get sacked and looted.
Let’s never forget what happened. I hear a lot of people blame the Iraqis, the troops, American voters, but in reality, the fault rests on those in the military brass who DID not have the foresight to protect Iraqi interests from looting. The fault rests on the Bush Administration (through Bremer, that dickhead) for firing the entire government with no thought in his head on what Iraqi’s were supposed to do THE NEXT DAY. And one of Bush’s appointed advisors should have came to him immediately and told Bush that Bremer was fucking up. Which didn’t happen. Because Bush’s advisors are either yes men, or idiots. Maybe because they were hired by an idiot.
Iraq fell apart because they wanted it to fall apart. And if they didn’t it sure as hell looked that way. Once again, America needs to look at the picture and realize one of two scenarios:
1. The Bush Administration is wholly corrupt.
2. The Bush Administration is dangerously incompetent.
There is no third option.
oddball @ 1
Well ya! But, but cannot we remain ‘civil’ during this genocide?
What I find amazing is the complete blackout on how we are perceived by the rest of the world. From the lack of coverage of international protests before the Iraq war straight through to today. We really don’t know.
I read the thread with Dr. Maryan live - really powerful!! Thanks, Pachacutec, for continuing discussion of it.
and - EPU’d, as is often the case with me:
Anyone see Katrina VandenHeuvel on Tucker this afternoon? Boy, she really ripped him a new one!!! And that was after I watched Michael Moore on Tweety. Nice to hear some serious pushback!
So what now? We’re damned if we stay, we’ll be damned for what happens when we leave.
At the least, we have to impeach the assholes who caused this avoidable mess.
We have to show the rest of the world that we as a people do not accept the actions of our “leaders”.
TexB @ 20
Get CNN International on Time Warner Cable. That appears to be where all the old “good” CNN staff have gone. they tell it pretty straight. I were shocked when I watched it a friends house. I have Dish and cannot get it. :(:(:(:(
Called him on his snark–actually used the word. It was loverly.
althespook @ 23
Yes. Would you like to please tell all of my neighbors and friends to watch it also?
For anyone who wasn’t there, Dr. Maryam was incredibly blunt, and not inclined in the least to pull punches. And why should she? I felt that I learned a great deal, though I still don’t know how representative her views are. I found it amazing to hear her say that Saddam was a s.o.b. if you were a political opponent, but for the average Iraqi, not so bad. As to sectarian strife that has existed for centuries, etc., she challenged us to consider that 60% of Saddam’s officer corps were Shi’as.
cancer_cures @ 18
Could be a combination of the above.
Well, it’s not just the BushCo are incompetent imperialists.
After all, would it be better if they were competent imperialists?
Pach, Siun, I have a small question. Did M tell us her background? Sunni, Shia, minority, what? It might help to put her very correct rage in context, cause she said some things (I was lurking, not feeling I had much to add) that i think we could better understand if we know her background.
this is not to discount or trivialize or demonize anything she said, but rather to allow us to connect it to OUR world.
Arca @ 22
Maryam was very clear as to what we should do. She wants us out of her country, now, and the Iraqi’s will take care of themselves. Our troops presence is what keeps the violence churning.
So now this maladministration is talking about taking ground troops to Pakistan? What are they smoking in the WH and DoD?
(feeling really hobbled on old laptop while my good one is in the shop being tuned up for YK2. Missing so many of my fast goodies)
BigMitch @ 8
Got a mirror handy?
Anyone see Katrina VandenHeuvel on Tucker this afternoon? She really ripped him a new one!!! Nice to hear some serious pushback!Yes, little Tfucker gets paid to be rude. His interuptions deserved a good smackdown. Now to get him into the Marines, soon!
eCAHNomics @ 17
I think that is would be immensely helpful to the anti-war effort if more of the general public was made aware of how the Iraqis truly feel about the U.S. The media coverage of the occupation is so sanitized.
SeamusD summarilzed her views perfectly.
RevDeb @ 30
oh no! what happened to your laptop?
selise @ 16
Thomas Jefferson speaking of Napoleon: “the wretch…who has been the author of more misery and suffering to the world, than any being who ever lived before him. After destroying the liberties of his country, he has exhausted all its resources, physical and moral, to indulge his own maniac ambition, his own tyrannical and overbearing spirit.”
Seems that Jefferson was extraordinarily prescient of our current sociopath in chief
Notice how Tucker ahems around the topic of shredding the Constitution. Katrina did well. Poor Tucker, he looked even more teenage preppy snot than usual today.
Just so you all know, we’re going to be having a Live Chat during the Democratic Debate on The Blue State blog. Just enter a nickname and you will be able to chat live with fellow progressives as you watch the debate live on CNN at 7 PM ET/4 PM PT.
http://www.thebluestate.com
my vietnam vet husband just blew a gasket with that comment…”what is normal” oh my GOD this has to be stopped!!!
IMPEACH THE WHOLE ADMIN.
Lea-no uh @ 33
I agree.
Crap. I was going to write about this tonight.
*sigh*
Back to the drawing board…
As I stated on another post.
A rogue elephant has trampled America’s moral compass.
History doesn’t remember much about the German’s who weren’t on board with Der Fuhrer.
War crimes…pshaw…A mere technicality.
Swirling down the red, white and blue drain.
-GSD
TexB @ 40
me too!!!
Lea-no uh @ 33
“Sanitized” is a euphemism. It is totally misleading. The truth, if Dr. Maryam is to be believed, is that the country is nearly united in the attitude that we should get the fuck out, and right now. We hear over and over again that there will be a civil war, or else we are in one now. Her statements suggest that this is not true. There will be problems which they will solve themselves, but now the violence is all about getting Americans out. She expressed the view that the Americans are working to make the country ungovernable so that there is an excuse to stay. If this is true, then everything we hear is not sanitized. It is bullshit.
Print out copies of the photos of a the deformed babies from depleted uranium and post them where you feel would be most efffetive.
Todd @ 38
Will there be a special thread here at FDL for us to vent on while the debate is in progress?
Our military is occupying a country in the middle of a violent civil war.
Yes, and, I’m sure Maryam would agree, we caused it and it’s completely, 100% our fucking fault. I read the thread and she was quick to dubunk any mendacious theories like “oh, they’ve been at each others throats for over a thousand years and Saddam just kept a lid on it for a while.” It’s bullshit. We own every shard and shiver of this broken urn.
BigMitch @ 14
Yeah, someone needs to pixillate an image of a round, yellow thing sneering at itself in the mirror.
I might even start using emoticons if I could use that one, which would be frequently approprié.
Third option: both of the above.
Those sand-n***s, those ‘marsh Arabs’ living near the junction of the Tigris and the Euphrates were in Ur when Abraham left there in 1679 B.C. with Sarah and 220 fellow citizens to walk the trade route in an arc to Hebron. Their city had been there 3500 (!!) years by then, and their distant ancestors had in essence invented our civilization.
And YOU think that all THEY understand is FORCE, Mr. Officer, Sir?
Cancer cures says:
definitely both.
GSD @ 42
I saw that earlier. We’re a long way down a particularly nasty and slippery slope.
“As to Saddam bad though he was your country is far worse.”
I won’t defend indefensible behavior by our troops, or this horrific and misguided war. But a claim like this is ridiculous on its face and undercuts any credibility by its author. Or by the author of this post, who clearly has no idea what mass murder actually looks like.
What makes you think America ever had a moral compass? Read Overthrow—America’s Century of Regime Change from Hawaii to Iraq by Steven Kinzer. It’s the history of the 14 governments (most democratic) that the U.S. has overthrown since 1890s. W is worse than most, but well within a strong U.S. tradition.
Gosh, this all sounds familiar.
Maybe 40 years back or so.
ironranger @ 37
How come he hasn’t signed up for duty yet? (oops, no pun intended *g*)
*ilbo @ 45
‘Effective’, nails need trimming..
Tug @ 54
The saddest comment of all.
*ilbo @ 32
Is it on video anywhere, for those of us who missed it?
If you see the movie Control Room there is a scene in which a young boy is screaming at the cameras. He was yelling about a man who was a Saddam supporting Baathist calling him scum, the rage and pain etched into his youthful face in shocking color…then he lit into the American troops too with roughly the same litany of expletives and level of anger…..
We are always presented with the false choice option in the media….However it is possible to loathe Saddam and also hate Bush’s war.
-GSD
George Bush is the General Custer of today. And he will walk into another ego-fueled trap.
althespook @ 28
Her point was that it does not matter what she is. All Iraqi’s feel the same. They don’t care about our internal affairs, or our setting the blame on one sector. Forgiving us is simply not in the cards, we have sinned most grievously. In her view, we are all to blame. The way our soldiers are behaving is an indictment on all Americans, and the rest of the world pretty much agrees.
I see your troll is at it again. Birnbaum why don’t you just STFU and whore the deaths of innocent civilians elsewhere. As to the question asked about her background.
She is Shia. Her father was Sunni. Her husband killed by American troops was Sunni. Some of her children are Shia some are Sunni. She is in short a very typical Iraki.
Oh and for the record. I’ve known her since I was a very small child. Also for the record I am neither Muslim nor Iraki. I did however grow up as a Christian in Muslim countries. You really need to get over this Sunni/Shia BS. Most Muslims regard it as of peripheral importance at best.
What Dr. Maryam said and what Digby said cuts like a fucking knife through my heart.
Our son and stepson served there, against our will, against our personal and national interests, against all that I and people like me have done to protest and try to change the course.
But now he is damaged goods, not only because he came back with PTSD, but that he and his kind who served like him will be forever branded as monsters.
This is NOT what we wanted. This was done in our names, damaging our good names, damaging our good will, damaging our souls.
Our democracy died and we didn’t even have a funeral for it; we are cursed and reviled for its loss around the world, and especially in Iraq. And there is nothing at all we can do to actually make it right except leave them to tend their wounds. Most especially, leave.
Lahoma says she likes Maryam. That takes care of that. Lahoma is more of a radical than I am. She says there is still hope for me though. ;0)
What this women has told us is completely consistent with various things I have read from time to time over the past two years … I believe her: and some in her country may disagree to some degree just as we see we disagree here about things of somewhat less consequence.
Most of the people had electricity, functioning sewers, jobs, homes, clean streets, and safe public spaces when Saddam was alive in spite of his evil. Even those who knew he was evil.
The country is ruined. The people are dying. American imperialism will never put it back. Shame on us.
selise @ 16
I agree.. so long as anti-imperialism is different from isolationism… the US should contribute internationally to UN-led initiatives, in a manner proportionate to our size and wealth. The argument here is against shrub’s unilateralism and not against collective action by the world community, say in Darfur or, perhaps someday in the future, in the West Bank.
larry birnbaum @ 53
That’s an Iraqi being quoted. And as far as I can tell, the statement is true: life in Iraq wasn’t bad before Bush decided to invade them. It’s bad now. The blame is ours.
As for U.S. mass murder in Iraq, someone help me with the numbers:
-650,000 civilians since the war began, as of a year ago. 800,000 now?
-500,000 under sanctions
-200,000 (or was it 100,000?) during GWI
-4 million refuggees inside & outside
And Maryam sez that, if anything, that’s an underestimate.
Now that’s I call call mass murder. Does anyone on the thread have a higher hurdle?
Woo Hoo, I just got off the phone with Sen Akaka’s office, they were taking copious notes on Steven Bradbury and his probable Vacancies Act violations and his authority to issue the memorandum on Meirs recusal for testimony! As Subcommittee Chairman of Oversight they were very interested in what I had to say, and promised to keep me informed!
dubhaltach @ 63
As she stated, Americans have to stop lying to themselves.
Someone pointed out earlier, the warped US warmongering mindset.
“We are here to stop the mass killing in Iraq!”
“What, you don’t appreciate what we are doing? Let’s kill them all!”
“But if we leave Iraq, they will start killing each other so wwe better “take of the gloves” and git ‘er done.”
-GSD
((Rayne))
If i may gently add to what you said, amen, and I too feel morally obligated that our troops should leave, not stay.
US occupation is part of, if not THE, problem in Iraq. We are not the solution.
peace.
dubhaltach @ 63
That is what I thought. It makes no difference as others have said to the terrible crimes we have commited by making illegal war there for the last five years, but it makes a difference to me in understanding her context.
And she has more right to be angry than even most of us know. There are disconnects in the setup to the first gulf war that made my hair stand on end (I was still working then). We could never prove them, but if they were true, then as I said, she has far more right to be angry than any of us know.
AK -
That was a lovely little ray of sunshine story you left downstairs. Thanks for the pick-me-up!
The Big Lie tells that ring much of American conduct in the ME and for that matter all around the planet are deeply set in WashDC.
These Big Lies easily reach back to the 19th century.
What the Bush/Cheney WH does today in Iraq or threatens Iran with or other ME lands is not a new throw of dice in historical American world affairs.
Sadly the Democratic Party does represent the same WashDC viewpoints.
G.W.Bush and Dick Cheney have pushed American Imperialism in the ME over oil and militarism to very dangerous blowback levels.
That cannot be undone now.
Making amends and atonements will require levels of leadership ability G.W.Bush has not.
What is very important now is fully vetting how sincere Hillary,Barack or John are about actually fully getting out of Iraq.
Anything short of full pull out of Americans from Iraq is not a withdrawal. It is staying.
Hillary and Barack in particular need to be very candid and honest about what they honestly seek to do or not do.
No more Big Lies Hillary.
No more Big Lies Barack.
If they plan on more Big Lie tells then they should not gain the WH.
Let the GOP dig itself and the Big Lie tell a grave.
The Big Lie tell must be finished off.
If the Democrats are too spineless or dishonest to do so they do not deserve to be in the WH just because they are not as “bad” as the DC GOPers.
Hillary or Barack should not get in on idea that they are better choice because they are not as “bad” as the GOP brand offerings.
Where are they on Iraq? Simple honesty please.
Stop the Big Lie tell.
CTuttle @ 70
Outstanding! I’m glad to see someone moving on that!
Waccamaw @ 74
You don’t need a weatherman to tell which way the wind is blowing…
“Iraq fell apart because they wanted it to fall apart.”
This is nonsense. The petro-borgs had not an INKLING that nearly 4 1/2 years after bush pulled the trigger, they would be bogged down in this charnal house of sectarian violence.
They really believed that they could get rid of Saddam and turn Iraq into our corporate cash cow. Specifically, they were nuts enough to believe things, and PLAN for things, such as rebuilding the old post-WWI Mosul-to Haifa-pipeline. They seriously thought that Iraq would be tranquil enough to permit bushCo to run that across northern Iraq; across SYRIA, for god’s sake, and into the Israeli port of Haifa; where LOTS of Iraqi oil could tankered up for the U.S. and Britain. Minus a substantial skim, for Israel.
It was one of Richard Perle’s pet schemes.
It was also, as we are seeing, a bloody fantasy, for which a lot of americans and Iraqis have paid with their lives.
Happily enough, there is a very good chance that both Dick Cheyney and george bush will pay for their savage idiocy by being forced to resign.
I think this is going to happen, and it will happen because these assholes’ value to the republican party as sacrifical goats is going up daily, while their value as Prez and Vice Prez, and as spokesmen for the GOP, is evaporating like a puddle of back-alley piss.
The repubs simply HAVE to disconnect from Iraq, if they and their “We’ve got ours, screw you, Jack!” philosophy is going to have a chance of surviving. The only way they can do that is by throwing this entire administration under the bus, and I will GUARANTEE everyone reading this, that the republican leaders in the Senate and House, are presently discussing just that.
P J Evans @ 68
He may have been inhumanely wretched, but Saddam was theirs. He belonged to them, was of them, and might eventually been dealt with by them. The only thing that stopped the East Germans and the former Soviets were their belief systems; when they had enough and wanted change, their systems fell apart and evolved into something else.
In the same way, we must deal with our own inhuman and wretched leaders. It’s time to put aside the illusions.
“We own every shard and shiver of this broken urn.” Nice turn of phrase.
Incidentally, I was just working on a blog for my site based on my reaction to her. Preview: I have come reluctantly to the conclusion that we need a draft, because the American soldier who commits atrocities does not reflect American values. I know that a draft will not completely insulate this type of conduct, but I believe it will help.
CTuttle @ 70
Good-luck….Gawd speed….
We also need to make sure that sugar-coated fairy tales about exporting democracy, fighting the evil commies, and liberating people for, at worst, misguided reasons are not permitted to appear in our history textbooks about the current occupation, and are excised about previous conflicts. Then maybe everyone will be sufficiently informed to ensure the death of the myth of American exceptionalism. Then, maybe, the US won’t repeat the same mistake. There’s a woeful lack of introspection in this country.
We also need to call our congresspeople when they employ such rhetoric. When Barbara Boxer talked about how awesome the US was during the all-night filibuster, it made me sick.
And if you haven’t read this, do not pass go, do not refresh, go immediately and read it ASAP. U.S. soldiers themselves admit their atrocities. You don’t have to take Maryam’s word for it.
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070730/hedges
this invasion was a bad idea from the get go, it was, and always will be, a lose-lose situation for the US.
you don’t barge into a house, rape and rob the owner, then berate them for having a sloppy house. it’s not exactly winning hearts and minds.
I’m inclined to think that hegemony was never a good policy. It certainly will never win over hearts or minds. During Viet Nam a saying came about: What if they gave a war and nobody came? We now have an all volunteer army, so it would be possible. If only…
I recently shit-canned a relationship with a now ex-boyfriend once I realized that we saw virtually everything differently and never the twain would meet. I had previously thought of him as a patriot because I never blamed the soldiers who went to Viet Nam. I didn’t understand why people spat at them when they returned. Then one day we had a discussion about torture. He said well, what do you consider torture? I said those pictures from Abu Graib indicated torture. He said those weren’t torture. They did a hell of a lot worse in Nam. And proceeded to discuss throwing prisoners out of planes much more often than I ever realized. Then I realized that I had never heard of any North Vietnamese war prisoners in Viet Nam. I wonder what could have happened to them? When I mentioned the Geneva Conventions, and that torture doesn’t work, there were typical talking points. Geneva was old and what’s going on now is so much worse, blah, blah, and of course torture works, blah, blah, and by the way, the Constitution is old and outmoded. No need to worry about that either. This is a man that came back severely damaged and is now on a number of psychotropic drugs to counteract his bipolar condition. But I have a serious problem with what we are doing to our troops in an unjust war of choice, and also a problem with what the volunteer troops are doing to themselves. I agreed that war was declared on us before we went to Afghanistan, and I still believe that was justified, but we had no business getting sidetracked into Iraq. My problem is this, though: Now there are apx. 70% of our citizens objecting to the war in Iraq, yet we can’t get a concensus in Congress.
There are not enough votes to get us out. It also appears that the only way we will get out is to impeach the pres. & v.p., yet only about 48% of the populace is up for impeachment of the President. By the time that number is large enough to get the administration out of office their term will be over anyway. Problem is that now everyone is mad at all the politicians, especially the Dems, because they tried to get us out but have been unsuccessful due to Repug blind party loyalty. If we’re not truly careful, we may get another terrible administration into office that we’re stuck with for another four to eight years. Talk about all the answers being bad!
BigMitch @ 79
If every single parent in this country felt the same hurt, betrayal and confusion that we feel, I don’t doubt for a second that we’d be talking about the exit right now rather than whether we ever will.
eCAHNomics @ 69
Not only to Dr. M. confirm these numbers, she asked rhetorically, “How does it feel to learn that your ’shining city on a hill’ is engaged in genocidal activities.” IIRC.
The War Crime that is called Iraq, is now being used as a “shiny object” as the Republicans accelerate the subversion of the Constitution. The past few weeks with the “no contempt, we are above the law”, the Exec Order saying the the WH can freeze assets without due process or the courts, refusing Vic Fazio’s request for the Emergency Government Plans etc. The police state is almost in place, the question is how to stop it or is it too late? The talk about Impeachment, or Inherent Contempt is magical thinking..those avenues are blocked.
The Exec. order allowing the freezing of assets is a huge club. Any protest could be called “aiding the enemy” and all of your assets are frozen by order of the WH. These guys don’t plan on giving up power in ‘09.
Ann in AZ
Read The Nation article.
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070730/hedges
I am finally beginning to understand the conflict I see even among those who say they are anti-war when they say “but how can we leave the country in chaos.” This is a sense of responsibility: but we are not the solution, friends and patriots.
I have long understood that war/occupation is the chaos. American is the bringer of this chaos. If we left, the chaos might be manageable, but not while we are there.
This is why I have felt adamatly for quite a while that we just need to leave as quickly and quietly as possible.
I saw a comment somewhere over the weekend that we should tell the UN our date certain and let the honest brokers of the international community decide what to do and how to do it. We cannot be trusted. This made sense to me.
Not much else makes any sense to me right now about this mess.
Peace, Please.
Rayne I’ve now served in both Afghanistan and Irak. Individually the American soldier is decent enough and courageous too.
But they are the problem. I’m sorry but they deserve what they’re being tarred with. They deserve it because they’re committing one war crime after another.
They’re the problem and they always were and because of that the war in Irak is lost and IMO the one in Afghanistan is well on the way to being lost. In each case because of the tactic deliberately used by American troops of targeting civilians.
I think it’s important to hear the words of an Iraqi female doctor who works with refugee children.. I think it is important to know she does not discern between peaceful Americans and the ones who shoot and bomb her country as we type and read.
And though I know America has many who don’t want this occupation… most did condone it initially and it was the worst of us, thoughtless, arrogant racist fear that allowed far to many of us to accept Bushco’s genocide for oil.
Needless unprovoked genocide.. That is what Bushco is all about and far to many of us let them..
And yet, some say we are not supposed to protest because it might mess up the process?
althespook @ 76
I essentially quoted Emptywheel’s excellent July 18th post at TNH! They were most interested! I also asked about Tim Griffin and his probable Vacancies act violations! It was heartening to hear the obvious interest in what I was telling them!!! We shall see!!! 8-)
And this puppet Nouri al-Maliki is Shi’a and so is Maryam? And she seems to loath this man Maliki. Telling.
eCAHNomics @ 83
I think that atrocities in war tend to happen whenever ill-prepared and ill-trained soldiers are deployed in combat conditions without proper support or even the prospect of relief or reinforcement, under leaders who tolerate or even encourage the view that difference is subhuman, that we fight for God, that atrocities are our prerogative, that boys will be boys and that impunity is the order of the day. All this is the case in shrub’s wars.
Ann in AZ @ 83
It should be pointed out that only about half that number favored impeaching Nixon before the impeachment investigation began. 4 months later Nixon was gone.
fdl reader @ 87
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