The Sunday New York Times features a half page editorial in which the editorial board finally calls for a planned redeployment of US troops out of the contested areas of Iraq and into surrounding areas including Kuwait and possibly the Kurdish north.
It is time for the United States to leave Iraq, without any more delay than the Pentagon needs to organize an orderly exit.
. . .
Continuing to sacrifice the lives and limbs of American soldiers is wrong. The war is sapping the strength of the nation’s alliances and its military forces. It is a dangerous diversion from the life-and-death struggle against terrorists. It is an increasing burden on American taxpayers, and it is a betrayal of a world that needs the wise application of American power and principles.A majority of Americans reached these conclusions months ago. Even in politically polarized Washington, positions on the war no longer divide entirely on party lines. When Congress returns this week, extricating American troops from the war should be at the top of its agenda.
Although the Time's editorial page has strongly criticized the President's policies over many months, this is an important watershed for America's paper of record, and I urge everyone to read the full editorial. Editorial boards across the country are probably struggling with the same issue and are now more likely to follow the Times' lead. Moreover, the Times' statement comes just as we receive more tragic news from Iraq and just before Congressional Democrats are set to reintroduce Iraq withdrawal proposals and court wavering Republicans.
The editors acknowledge coming to their conclusion reluctantly. They doubted the efficacy of the "surge" strategy" last winter and previously advocated other strategies, hoping these would salvage something worthwhile out of the catastophic mess the Bush/Cheney regime created. Today's editorial, however, abandons those hopes and presents a sobering, mind numbing recitation of how desperate the situation is and how deeply mired the US has become in an impossible quagmire. It then lays out all the complexities that any successful redeployment strategy must confront -- the likely increased internal violence and civil war, the dangers of withdrawal to US troops, the potential for regional conflict, the certainty of massive humanitarian crises for millions of refugees -- all nightmare scenarios that must be confronted under any plan.
But the Times' editors make a critical assumption -- that the President and Vice President will reverse course and cooperate -- and thus ignore the most formidable obstacle that must be overcome before any alternative strategy can even be developed, let alone attempted: the Bush/Cheney regime will vehemently oppose it, undermine it, and if somehow forced, bungle it. This President is simply not intellectually or emotionally capable of accepting the defeat of his central foreign policy without a personal meltdown.
The reason the Iraq catastrophe is called a "quagmire" is because there are no simple or good options for getting out or staying in. Any withdrawal strategy is as fraught with risks as staying. Fashioning a plan that can extract America from its greatest foreign policy blunder ever will require the wisest, most honest and insightful leadership this country can muster. But does anyone seriously believe these qualities reside in the Bush White House?
We're expecting the people who arrogantly blundered into this disaster, lied about it and continue to be in denial about the mess they've made to lead the way out? Do we trust this President's judgment in making strategic choices, or his honesty in laying out the consequences to the American people? Does anyone seriously believe Dick Cheney would do anything but make matters worse, lie about it, and cover up his behind the scenes manipulations? Is there any reason to have confidence in Condoleeza "no one could have anticipated" Rice, or National Security Advisor Hadley (Cheney's mole) -- or the belligerent (pardon me) neocon in charge of Middle East policy at State, a team whose list of failures now includes destabilizing Lebanon and dismembering Gaza, not to mention strengthening Iran's strategic position and exacerbating conditions that could lead to regional Sunni vs Shia conflict? This crew has brought havoc wherever they've gone.
Even if the President nominally accepted the need for policy change as a result of increasing pressure from his own Party, there is no basis for trusting this President's word, nor any basis for trusting the competence of his execution even if, through some miracle, he sincerely embraced change. And there can be no doubt whatsoever that Vice President Cheney and his minions throughout the national security apparatus would do everything they could to undermine, sabotage and reverse the new strategy.
The regime has never given the slightest hint that they would accept a fundamentally different strategy, let alone one imposed by its opponents in the reality-based community. That remains true no matter how many Republicans start hedging their bets.
If America is now prepared to end it's occupation of Iraq and embark on a truly different strategy that does not get the US mired in yet another Middle East military quaqmire, it must face this central truth: The Bush/Cheney neocon vision of imposing US hegemony in the Middle East by force must be rejected, and those who pursued this vision must be systematically removed from their positions. No new strategy can be planned and executed until the Bush/Cheney regime is removed from office, along with the entire neocon national security team that designed, promoted, and implemented the current failed policies.
If we want to end the occupation, we have to start by liberating the White House. A malevolent and delusional crowd, cheered on by frightened warmongers, headed by Dick Cheney and embraced by the befuddled Bush himself, has a stranglehold on America's national security policy, and they are not going to loosen their grip until forced to do so. The New York Times editorial is a highly important statement, but it is still missing the most essential paragraph. The regime must go.
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Has everyone here seen ‘Blog Wars’ on Sundance Channel?
Very cool documentary with many of our favorite friends.
And the Kiss float!
Hi Scarecrow!
“This President is simply not intellectually or emotionally capable of accepting the defeat of his central foreign policy without a personal meltdown.”
Bush is a very dangerous and sick man. And we are approaching very dangerous times. If this president feels boxed-in, he may do something rash.
Scarecrow, Great! Now this needs to be published in the NYT for the print crowd. The children of the Grey Lady must read this.
G’day folks. Busy news day on the talkie shows. Libby, Iraq, subpoenas — the opportunities for lying were overwhelming. I’d say the ratio of misdirection/lies to truth was about 9:1 today. More than usual.
I thought the funniest was Specter wondering if Fitz could explain the Plame case to him. Well, he can explain it for you, Arlen, but he can’t understand it for you.
Truer words were never spoken.
Is anybody listening?
Iran he we come…….it’s called ‘Failing Forward’.
That’s gonna leave a mark. And it should!
And there was Specter asking Leahy if they couldn’t get a lot of information behind closed doors — really. The whole country is crying out for straight talk and public accountability, and Arlen thinks a secret meeting is just the thing. Astonishing.
ThinkProgress: Kristol: Bush Timed Clemency To Get Political Cover By Attacking Clinton
Everyone give RevDeb a hug; she still has the crummies from last week, and strangers walking through her on-the-market house. Chicken soup recipies are in order.
Bush and Cheney must be neutralised for this withdrawal to actually begin. Impeachment would do just fine.
Procuratio frutex delenda est.
Here’s the NYT editorial via Truthout: The Road Home
Thank you, Scarecrow! I think you got this exactly right - in all of its scary implications. Congress has no choice but to remove these men from the offices which they are using against the will of “we, the people” and against the principles of the Constitution.
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 12
I saw that segment and thought Kristal was being facetious. He saw the Libby sentence as inherently unfair and Bush’ action insufficient. The counter-attack on Clinton was not a reason for it, but only a part of the spin after.
{{{{{{{{{{RevDeb}}}}}}}}}}}}
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 16
Thanks, Stephen. Wasn’t sure with their editorial was Times Select. It’s the second half-pager they’d done on Iraq this year, IIRC — the first being right after the surge was announced. They’ve moved from that.
Scarecrow–I love this:”If we want to end the occupation, we have to start by liberating the White House.” Truer words… Iraq may not be the only country under occupation by the Bushies, eh? Thank you!
As the wheels continue to fall off Bushco the concern is whether they will ratchet up their belligerence and go ahead and attack Iran. It is vital that the Senate pass a resolution preventing this unilateral action. There is no telling what these deluded war mongers will do.
Now that the editorial tide has turned on Iraq it will be interesting to see what the Gooper caucus will actually be willing to do with their votes. Don’t anyone be holding their breath now.
A Cheney impeachment proceeding aimed at his role in Plamegate would turn up some additional heat on this bunch. It might provide some negotiating leverage to get them off the 12 story window ledge they seem so intent on jumping from.
There is absolutely no one in the Republican party who is trustworthy.
complete agree. but i think the problem is even greater than you describe - that most of our democratic leaders (and dem foreign policy elite) subscribe to a version of “imposing US hegemony, by force if necessary” vision.
that’s why they leave everything “on the table” with regards to iran.
getting rid of bush/cheney is a good thing… but i don’t see how we can make that a requirement for getting out of iraq - unless who/what replaces them has a different vision… and i just don’t see that.
selise @ 24
I’m not opposed to getting out before removing the regime from office; I just don’t think it’s a plausible scenario. It would take a lot to convince me that this crowd would accept such a plan.
As I point out here – the NYT has no intention of changing its murderous ways.
The Middle East is exploding. Is this why my party is reluctant to start impeachment proceedings against Richard Cheney. Is the fear that this move would push Bush over the edge?
Great post, Scarecrow!
I needed this after the morning grand rounds of ‘pundits’ on network tv. It’s like nothing I’ve ever seen. Rep. Connor is an ignoramus, as is Kristol. I did see Brit roll his eyes at Connor, tho’…
Sorry to go OT, but a caller on AirAm guided me to this website; I hope y’all will check it out. We need a WWII scholar to review this-
http://www.proliberty.com/observer/20070405.htm
(can also be found googling ‘idaho observer- scherf’)
SC “We’re expecting the people who arrogantly blundered into this disaster, lied about it and continue to be in denial about the mess they’ve made to lead the way out?”
The NYT’s helped lead the way into Iraq in a very big way, with Judy Miller and Micheal Gordon’s unsubstantiated claims about WMD’s being written up without editorial oversight… says it all about the Times integrity.
Many will never ever consider the NYT’s “America’s paper of record.” Those days are long gone. NYT’s is a quilty as Judy Miller and those responsible for accuracy at the times are up to their necks in the Iraqi peoples and American soldiers blood.
Terrific post Scarecrow. Liberate the Whitehouse - indeed.
I advocate getting out of Iraq now. Before the really bad stuff begins.
Scarecrow @ 18
Never trust Bill Kristal. Me thinks he speaks with forked tongue. To put it another way - he’s up to no good.
what Scarecrow says
Scarecrow!!!
IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH
Personally, I think it is enough that NYT has made the editorial statement. As you say, it will echo in other Op-eds and in the Congress as well. The timing is fortunate.
It seems to me that the country is operating as if Bush and Cheney and the neocons are somehow going to abide by the Constitution or any legislation…or any pubic opinion. They haven’t so far, and they are not going to. They are not going to relinquish the control they have. Certainly not in the conventional way. They are way past that. They do not plan on leaving the WH or Iraq. Seriously, can you envision Bush and Cheney packing up their papers and their offices and handing the keys over to a Democrat? No way Jose. Ain’t gonna happen - at least not that way. They must be impeached before some incident occurs, and they claim martial law, and you better believe it, they will, and they won’t look back.
Scarecrow @ 25
agree that it’s not very likely (getting out with bush/cheney still in office).
i just don’t see it being all that more likely with them gone. can you draw me a picture? who are they replaced with? what vision replaces the vision of hegemony? and mostly, after the catharsis of regime change at home… where does the legislative energy come from to start a real withdrawal (not a fake “let’s leave 60,000 troops” withdrawal) come from? wouldn’t there be a reason to have a short term “care taker” presidency and leave the tough choices for whoever is elected in 2008?
i’m usually pretty good with the imagination thing… and i can imagine lots of regime change senarios… but none of them include a real withdrawal.
would seriously love a picture book story or two. help me see the possibilities.
Millineryman @ 19
{{{{{{{{{{RevDeb}}}}}}}}}}}}
Whether we can pull out with Bush in office or not (and I think not without impeachment) the NYT piece is finally a grown up piece that is putting together the things that the grown ups need to be discussing - NOW - with respect to withdrawal. That can begin immediately if there are responsible people in Congress and the military and State Dept who are ready to engage.
That does mean sidestepping the loyal Bushies with their talking pointers - which pretty much leaves only Gates (possibly England) in DOD and pretty much no one at WH, in OVP or in State - and involving actual committed thinking persons who want to do the best that can be done.
The Dems in Congress need to start that process now - in depth independent investigation into and planning for the things the NYT raises. They need to do it as if Bush is a non-factor in the equation, bc correct decisions can only be made if he is a non-factor in the equation. WHich means that they will be working on a plan to be implemented upon his impeachment (which they won’t do) or the end of his term.
casual observer @ 35
Yeah, I assume that’s what they were thinking.
Most people outside the beltway couldn’t give 2 hoots about what the NYT says. And those within the beltway only give it credence when it’s spouting the WH talking points. Otherwise it’s a left wing liberal rag. It’s a no win situation for the Times. And they deserve it after Judy et all did their “patriotic duty” and aided and abetted the criminals who started this war.
This is only another blip on the road to nowhere. UNLES as Scarecrow said the movement begins in ernest to get the crooks out of the WH.
The country is barreling merrily toward a rude awakening. We’ve been coup’d.
QuakerGirl @ 33
Somebody dubbed him William “the Bloody”
It fits.
LS @ 36
They’ve been setting things up for martial law for years with Blackwater by their side. The Pentagon will be sidelined into yes men following orders. Powell will be in charge and he’ll obey.
I don’t think Bush can nuke Iran or Iraq as long as we have soldiers there.
So what’s the probable outcome regarding Iraq between now and the 2008 elections?
1) An impeachment and removal is impossible given the current configuration of congress- unless something changes dramatically and soon. As the clock continues to tick and the primaries begin to occur- talk of impeachment will be seen as superfluous.
2) Goopers who have even a hint of re-election trouble will tailor their message to the local polls. Currently the favored position of the american people is “set a schedule for withdrawal”. That gives goopers a lot of latitude- they only need to support a “schedule” not actual withdrawal by election day- and the issue of “total withdrawal” is not being discussed much yet- so they can innoculate themselves with a “schedule”.
3) It turns out that no matter what- there will be a reduction in troop levels beginning in March- since we don’t have enough troops to continue the current levels beyond that date..
So here’s my prediction:
Threatened Goopers will come out against the “current strategy”. They will demand that we go back to the Iraq Study Group recommendations and further demand a gradual withdrawal schedule beginning in March of 08. The “schedule” will be VERY gradual–getting us down to 100,000 or so on election day. Dems will want a quicker schedule but won’t have the votes to force it…In the end- we’ll do what the goopers propose- which will represent a reduction from the surge levels PLUS another 25,000 or so reduction during 08…Dems will take the deal only after having their own proposals fillibustered, vetoed, or both… so the Clusterfuck presidency will end with a slightly reduced presence in Iraq but with the war still goin strong.
Here’s a diary from Daily Kos about editorials and Iraq
Opinion: Bush Stands Alone In His Failed Iraqi Democracy Plans
Thanks Scarecrow! I was disheartened to see people here arguing against impeachment the other day on the basis that it would be a distraction. Congress doesn’t have the votes to accomplish anything of value until Bush’s veto pen is gone. Hence, the only useful thing for Congress to do is to begin impeachment hearings immediately for Bush and Cheney. With front page coverage of their malfeasance in every newspaper in the country, public pressure will build to the point where either they will resign like Nixon (given the heave ho by Congressional Republicans trying to hold onto their seats) or by additional votes to convict (from the aforementioned Congressional Republicans).
Thanks for the hugs. Feeling cranky about house and move and everything right now. Seeing sicko yesterday didn’t help. Five more days on antibiotics and hopefully things will be looking up. At least for me. Not for the country.
Very well said, Scarecrow. I agree completely. I don’t think beginning the impeachment process is difficult or unwise. It’s actually simple and the time is right.
Mary @ 39
I agree that’s the implicit message: this is what we must work through, even if the WH doesn’t agree. But how do the grownups — assuming they exist — even get access to the critical information needed to make sound decisions? Who could we trust, and why would they even be allowed to speak freely? You can’t get around the information stranglehold — and Cheney understood this from the beginning.
Fantastic, Scarecrow. Faultless logic. Beautiful construction. Precise conclusion. Well done.
Selise @ 24 beat me to it, thanks!
There is another critical assumption still in play - some who beleive in peace and in restoring American moral standing would actually vote for and support a neo-conservative running for president, as long as they had a magical (D) in front of their name!
Rhetorical trimming from the likes of Clinton and Obama, in the face of overwhelming polling data and the reluctant advice of their pollsters, should not be misconstrued by anyone as sincere beliefs.
The NYT hopes it can go on record as finally coming to its senses and calling for withdrawal without following through to the next logical step of calling for removal of the Cheney/Bush regime.
Some in the left blogoshpere beleive they can excoriate the policies of the neo-conservatives day and night, and then not follow through with the same opposition to (D) candidates who literally
repeat the talking points of Dick Cheney that “all options are on the table” in regards to the next neo-conservative attack, on Iran.
Impeachment should be on that effing table by now, verbally condoning further war crimes against a country that poses no threat to the USA should be off the table, or there is no chance of support from anyone who wants to claim they are on some kind of progressive, or to the left of Rahm Emmanuel, rather than a (D) party soldier.
RevDeb @ 48
(((RevDeb)))
Oklahoma kiddo @ 45
Yes he can. He had no qualms about sending them to their deaths based on lies. The less real soldiers, the less to defend us at home. The private army would have to step in, and they answer to Bush/Cheney, not We the People. These people are ruthless and without conscience.
(((((big hug for Rev Deb)))))
The barbarians are within the gates. We gave them power, and continue to allow them to practice their treachery.
RevDeb @ 48
Would some chocolate help?
thanks, Scarecrow, I totally agree …
so, pursuing impeachment or *something* (as hard as that is …) is easier than talking some sense into this wh, even with 70% of the country agreeing with that sense.
depressing.
if we don’t see some legal pushback from sjc this week regarding ignoring subpoenas, not a single one of the numerous laws that have *already* been publicly broken matter and we are lost. i’m scared.
RevDeb @ 41
First - feel better soon, RevDeb!
Second - I understand your point about the direct influence of the NYT outside the beltway and the NY metro area. But I disagree that it won’t influence the MSM’s talking points and begin to change the “conversation” if you will - about getting the combat troops out. I was so heartened to see a lot of leaks in the WH dam - the choice of guests on the talking heads shows, the NYT mega-editorial, the McClatchey boldness and accuracy in reporting and the increase in visibility of those who disagree with and speak intelligently about the failures of the WH and their loyal slavering followers.
This, at least to me, is a better indicator that the national tolerance tipping point has been reached.
Sporkovat @ 52
What truths you speak! The D party is loaded with NeoCons. Hillary and Bill used the same think tanks and advisers. You can hear it in their language and position. Either way, the NeoCons win.
CNN’s Michael Ware making the case for staying — because we have no other choice — being echoed by the pro-war “expert” General Spiderman who thought it was a great idea to go in. Shorter CNN: we have to continue a catastrophe because we can’t face the consequences of a huge blunder.
For some reason every comment I make goes into moderation….Should I conclude that my comments are no longer wanted?
rwcole @ 62
No, you shouldn’t. Something is triggering; we’ll check.
Scarecrow @ 61
Ware’s been there from the beginning, does that give any weight to his opinion on this? I’ve always felt he genuinely cared about the Iraqi people.
Scarecrow- Thanks- problem seems to have been resolved.
Scarecrow @ 50
i think maybe wayne white (from sourcewatch: “Wayne White, an adjunct scholar with the Washington-based Middle East Institute [1], is a member Group Four: Strategic Environment of the Iraq Study Group. [2] White was a “top Middle East analyst” for the State Department’s Bureau of Intelligence and Research for 26 years until March 2005. [3][4] He was the Bureau’s “principal Iraq analyst” from 2003-05 [5] and a “veteran” of the National Intelligence Estimate “process”. [6]”)
Scarecrow @ 61
The failure requires more failure tactic. That’s also the definition of insanity - using the known outcomes of failed action and repeating the action with the expectation of success.
What needs to happen is for a voice of reason to insert the notion that it isn’t an either/or choice. Rather, it requires complex solutions - multilateral competent diplomacy, multinational reconstruction and humanitarian aid. The US would be much better served to be a background source of support and non-military resources instead of the imperialistic military bully. But that notion never gets traction since no one ever addresses complex issues and complex solutions before having his or her 30 second sound byte time expire.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 5
Yeah, as opposed to the sensible actions he has taken to date. Most depressingly and frighteningly, OK, I fear you are right. That he could and would do something today that would be “rash” by yesterday’s standards, is a tragically likely probability.
y’all need to catch RFK Jr. yesterday on the Live Earth NY (i think) stage, connecting it all, and whoa do i mean all, up with massive political corruption and treason. check out the crowd’s response.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nv9q3PR_Tps
what if we didn’t need the rest of the oil that may or may not be buried in the middle east?
what if no one needed these crooks anymore?
Bravo, Scarecrow! Good posts from CHS, too.
Elliott @ 65
I don’t disagree about Ware’s integrity and sensitivity. But the question is policy; at some point you have to question the logic of moving further and further into a quagmire merely because the longer you stay, and the worse it gets, the harder it is to figure out how to get out. That logic has our capital in a death grip, and other people are paying with their lives.
QuakerGirl @ 60
exactly. no reason to give up… but i think our chances are better if we’re willing to face the inconvenient truths.
This regime must go. Here’s another reason why:
BushCo (and I bet this is Chevron Tanker Lady speaking) repeatedly fails to anticipate events, or lies about having been told what would happen, or acts surprised when the most predictable events occur. This behavior –their signature behavior! — disqualifies them to plan, organize, and manage a drawdown of our current ill-planned, ill-organized, and ill-managed occupation. See also: Bin Laden determined to attack in US; planes flown into skyscrapers; New Orleans’ levees; all of Israel and Palestine; the resurgence of a Russian strongman.
Utterly incompetent, they cannot be left to their own devices. Not to mention the evil sabotage to be expected from our criminally insane Vice President.
We need someone competent who will tell the truth about the problems of withdrawing from Iraq even if the truth is unpleasnt to plan our withdrawl from Iraq. We need General Shinseki.
Baby steps, baby steps, NYT.
Oy.
things come undone @ 74
good call. we need our own iraq study group with everyone who’s been kicked out by the bushes, or has quit in protest.
LS @ 55
I am hearing what you are telling me (us). And more importantly perhaps, I am listening.
There isn’t a single word in the NYT Editorial that progressives weren’t loudly warning about more than 5 years ago.
bunchapuqn’ hippies indeed.
i have paid attention to the assessments that leaving iraq will be completely horrifying … i just don’t see how staying now will be any *less* horrifying. it’s only getting worse. it’s only getting more complex. we are only more and more out of our depth.
i was thinking last night: based on stats and rates and predictions that it will take months to withdraw, if we withdraw, we will still be facing 4,000 - 5,000 dead americans for the iraq debacle. and how many more iraqis?
enough.
“Ware’s been there from the beginning, does that give any weight to his opinion on this? I’ve always felt he genuinely cared about the Iraqi people.”
I think he does really care and we should too.
They didn’t ask for us to come in, bomb the shit out of them, kill them, and destroy their country.
I didn’t vote for Bush either time but there should be some way to get us out and stabilize the country.
A pan-Arab alliance, The UN, whatever it takes.
The oil belongs to the Iraqi’s, let them vote on what to do with it with out our interference.
Bush and Cheney are responsible for this, and we as a nation will only be able to regain some semblance of respectability in the world by punishing those who are responsible for this incredible bum-fuck….
Slothrop @ 50
The best idea? Forget the Leadership. Convince the Judiciary Committee.
Thanks QuakerGirl.
I remember how squicky it was listening to all the apologia for John Kerry in 04 - I sure hope they don’t make the same mistake again, because, apalling as it might be to consider, if they nominate a neo-con, and enough of those on the left they take for granted wise up and defect, and then the Rovians pull as hard as they can on the rigged electoral system, and the media as usual acts as the propoaganda wing of the (R) Party, they just might manage to lose in 2008 and all their strategic jostling and triangulating and pollsniffing will have been in vain.
see, I’m secretly a (D) party pragmatist in disguise!
don’t nominate a neo-conservative, or you might lose the election…simple!
selise @ 77: that’s a great idea!
Nice icon Pach.
Scarecrow @ 72
You’re right Scarecrow, we have to get out of there and we have to get BushCo out of power.
I guess after listening to Ware (and I didn’t hear him today, but I have listened to him talk about this recently) I end up with such a deep fear for the Iraqis if we leave but OBVIOUSLY we can’t help them. And their civil war’s going to blaze no matter what.
Thanks for this SC
“The Bush/Cheney neocon vision of imposing US hegemony in the Middle East by force must be rejected, and those who pursued this vision must be systematically removed from their positions. No new strategy can be planned and executed until the Bush/Cheney regime is removed from office, along with the entire neocon national security team that designed, promoted, and implemented the current failed policies.
If we want to end the occupation, we have to start by liberating the White House. A malevolent and delusional crowd, cheered on by frightened warmongers, headed by Dick Cheney and embraced by the befuddled Bush himself, has a stranglehold on America’s national security policy, and they are not going to loosen their grip until forced to do so. The New York Times editorial is a highly important statement, but it is still missing the most essential paragraph. The regime must go.”
Joe Wilson could not agree with you more
Joe Wilson on Matthews show
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbDZr6MnTZs
“hold to account all reps who have sold their souls to this small sect of neo-conservatives”
what we need now is leadership that loves peace and hates war: that is our only hope. otherwise it will be endless war.
As to Iraq. Something has to give. We are running out of soldiers.
scarecrow, I’m with you all the way on this one.
Let the purge begin.
“The reason the Iraq catastrophe is called a “quagmire” is because there are no simple or good options for getting out or staying in. Any withdrawal strategy is as fraught with risks as staying. Fashioning a plan that can extract America from its greatest foreign policy blunder ever will require the wisest, most honest and insightful leadership this country can muster. But does anyone seriously believe these qualities reside in the Bush White House?”
That is the best summary of the current fiasco that I have read. Bring them home now is a great concept, but I have seen no plan on how to do it. Re-deploy? Where? Kuwait and/or Kurdistan doesn’t want 100k troops. If draw-down is mandated, Bush/Cheney will make sure it is a bloody mess..”See we told you so”
Millineryman @ 85
Pach has a FB patch!
fdl reader @ 69
rfk jr.’s short speech is effing brilliant. thanks for the link. highly recommended.
Elliott @ 92
Yeah, very impressive and awe-inspiring. I’m afraid to get close though; he has magical powers.
selise @ 93: you are so welcome, i’m hoping this goes viral … i was blown away.
Bad News
Bush will complete his term
There will still be 100,000 troops or so as he boards Marine One for the last time in just over a year.
Good News- As he leaves, we will be in the process of a drawdown- and once begun it is unlikely to be reversed.
selise @ 93
I can’t play this video — any suggestions? I can hear applause and “power down.”
fdl reader @ 79
I have never seen an actual assessment of the tactic of rapid withdrawl, and I’ve looked for one. All I’ve heard is “It will be horrifying. It will be a disaster. It will be a tragic mistake”.
These are not assessments, or analysis, or debate. They are throw-away lines from people like McCain and especially Lieberman, designed to inspire fear, without even attempting to employ reason.
Thanks for the link 69 fdl reader
Kennedy “We can eliminate 100% of our Persian gulf oil”
Oklahoma kiddo @ 89
Lot’s of pickup truck drivin frat boys with W stickers in the window with nothing to do here in Athens.
fdl reader @ 70