Let me say straight out. Punishing Bush's commutation of Libby's sentence with censure would be like punishing Libby's obstruction of justice with just 400 hours of community service. It would simply reinforce the notion that Bush's Administration is above the law. It would be a punishment wholly unfit for the crime that has been committed: Obstruction of Justice. Bush's obstruction of justice piled up on top of Libby's obstruction of justice, all to prevent the American justice system from holding this Administration accountable for its actions.
I love Swopa. But I am astounded that he misses this fact: in a post arguing against getting lost in the minutiae, he presents the issue as one of Bush "coddling criminals," and not as one of Bush using his pardon power to hide his own (and Cheney's) involvement in a crime. It was not Libby who came up with the idea of leaking Valerie Wilson's identity to Judy Miller, it was Cheney, and he did so with the authorization of Bush.
This is not a mistake Wexler makes. Indeed, his resolution defines in clear terms what Bush's commutation amounts to:
[Bush's] decision to reward the perjury of Mr. Libby ... effectively protected President Bush, Vice President Cheney, and other Administration officials from further scrutiny.
Given that Wexler has such a clear understanding of the issue here, it is unfortunate that he stops at censure. Sure, it'd make for bad press for the President. On Tuesday. But by Thursday, Bush could rest easy that he had ended all scrutiny into his actions, once and for all. Censure would amount to a closing off of inquiry; it would provide a way for the Republicans to defeat any effort to get the grand jury materials that Fitzgerald and his team spent so much effort putting together. It would end this thing, at precisely the moment when the country is finally beginning to understand the magnitude of what Bush and Cheney did.
In fact, our forefathers gave us clear instructions what to do at a time like this, when a President uses his pardon authority to cover up his own crimes.
In the same convention George Mason argued that the President might use his pardoning power to "pardon crimes which were advised by himself" or, before indictment or conviction, "to stop inquiry and prevent detection."
James Madison responded: [I]f the President be connected, in any suspicious manner, with any person, and there be grounds to believe he will shelter him, the House of Representatives can impeach him; they can remove him if found guilty..
It doesn't take minutiae to prove that Bush has "sheltered" someone whose crime was "advised by himself." It takes Libby's notes and grand jury testimony.
The punishment for the abuse of the pardon power is clear: impeachment. Just as the punishment for Libby's obstruction was clearly 30 months. If we're going to complain about the commutation itself, we have no business letting Bush off with nothing more than censure.
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DickCO!
EW!
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Begin impeachment hearings on Cheney. Censure is like a ‘time out’ for the GOP.
Good morning ew.
leisureguy!
But seriously . . . emptywheel, does censure preclude impeachment? I get that it’s a half-assed wrist-slap at best, but is it a start or a finish to dismantling BushCo?
EW, there has been mention of Pat Fitz giving over GJ info to the Congress. Under what conditions is this possible?
Yasoo(hello) EW from Crete…. totally agree…
Democrats: What I want you to do is uphold the law.
bg @ 9
I think Judiciary has to subpoena him. Hey Congress!
bg — See LHP’s post on that here. She lays out all the potential for that and what regs have to be followed in order for grand jury secrecy rules to be obeyed and for the material to be lawfully disclosed under the parameters allowable.
barbara @ 8
If you could convince me it would serve as a first step, I might support it. But it will make it incredibly easy for Republicans to say, “we’ve already punished Bush for that, why subpoena Fitzgerald for the evidence to find out what really went on?”
In other words–yes, almost assuredly, it would close off impeachment–or even just further investigation. After all, even if we don’t impeach, this case is one thing where we already have evidence, BushCo can’t invoke executive privilege, because they’ve already provided this stuff. At the very least, you hold off on censure until we’ve used this case to get Addington and Jenny Mayfield on the stand.
Marcy! What’s your take on what the tall man in the rumpled suit has been saying this week? Do you think there might be another resignation in the works? Oh, and btw, my new boss is rewriting all of the regulations that were issued during the Clinton Administration. All of them.
George Washington’s first inaugural address talks how GW is the servant of the people who called him to serve his country. This George knew life under a king and our current George is behaving like a king and WE are the servants.
Our first George wanted his boss the people of America to know that he was humble and knew he served at their pleasure. Our elected officals serve at our pleasure no matter what party or office, somehow we need to remind them of that.
On your mark…get set……
Forget the Leadership. Convince the Judiciary Committee!!!
TiredFed @ 15
I have no idea. I doubt he’d resign. He loves his job too much–there’s still too much crookedness in Chicago to take out.
Plus, he might have a card or two in his backpocket. I’m not sure if he’d be willing to play them, as this thing gets escalated. But he probably has a few.
emptywheel_A personal thanks from me for distilling the complexities of this whole mess. While standing across the street from Independence Hall Wednesday displaying an impeachment sign and engaging people in conversation, I was able to lay it all in very clear terms.
I flipped one guy who started out about the Clinton sex crimes, then listened intently, and had nothing to say to counter the facts laid out in front of him. I would’ve never been able to do this about this case had it not been from reading your work, and the work of the other fine writers here at FDL.
If, as Mr. Madison says, Congress can impeach a president who issues a pardon to “shelter himself,” I fail to understand why Congress hasn’t already opened an investigation into the Libby commutation. If, as the Republican noise machine claims, there was no crime there, an investigation will determine that and remove the cloud hanging over the President and Vice President — and isn’t that what the right wing wants? If I were the Democrats, I’d kick off the investigation by shouting that from the rooftops.
The timidity of my party is almost overwhelming. The Democrats should be all over this dirty, filthy Libby business.
dalloway @ 20
Well, that’s what Wednesday’s hearing is all about. But if you introduce a censure resolution on Tuesday, then how effective is an inquiry into it going to be on Wednesday?
good morning all,
thanks EW.
KO had the money quote from archibald cox after nixon gave him the heave-ho. i can almost quote if from memory:
it’s that simple.
Apologies if this has already been discussed but what were the safeguards put in place for pardons after Clinton left office? I need some facts for when I run into local “Clinton did it too” wingnuts.
Without law, we have nothing.
dalloway @ 20
I believe they have. Selise would know, but I think there is a hearing next week on the issue.
Exactly the right language, ew. This was a reward for Scooter’s protection of Dick & George. An open debate about impeachment is the best way to get the issues before the public.
I don’t disagree with you, Bush definitely deserves it. But energy is a finite resource, and I wonder if this is the best place to put it. I realize it’s possible to walk and chew gum at the same time, but right now Bush is basically trying to string out the war so he can hand it off to somebody else. I feel like from a pragmatic point of view, if we start the all-consuming process of impeachment, the war (and all those who are suffering because of it) will just have to wait for a solution.
On the other hand, I agree with those who say it’s our duty to hold this kind of greed, corruption and barbarism to account. I just have to ask if this is the right time, because I’m certainly not going to forget. If it takes 2, 5, 10 years or more, I’ll still be screaming for justice.
emptywheel @ 19
I have to hope he takes those cards to Senator Leahy and asks for a job. (and hires a few former USAs like David Iglesias.)
Christy Hardin Smith @ 13
Were those rules followed during the Clinton impeachment, when the repub congress released to the internet grand jury testimony that was actually pornographic? IIRC it was published instantly, before it had even been read by the committee.
I totally agree with empywheel. Censure is a waste of time here. It will just feed the Repugs with the idea that Democrats are a. weak and b. wasting time on resolutions that Bush can ignore.
If there has been obstruction of justice, and we all agree that it looks pretty convincing, then the Department of Justice needs to investigate. Unfortunately, Gonzo is in charge and has not lifted a finger for anything to do with the WH. So, the first step is to impeach Gonzo.
I would add that just the evidence that would come up in that hearing would likely be very incriminating for the WH.
tommy yum @ 23
Amen.
emptywheel @ 22
Yep, I know about the hearing, EW. But from everything I read, the subject seems to be “the president’s power to pardon,” not the specific circumstances of the Libby commutation. That makes it sound like Congress will only investigate the broader issue of whether Bush had the power to commute Libby’s sentence. Anybody know what witnesses might be called? I guess that would clarify things…
spurious at 30 — No, they were not — which is one of the big reasons that i hold Barbara Comstock and Dan Burton and their ilk in such contempt. And I certainly hope you are not suggesting that Fitzgerald break the law because that would be wrong. Period.
it’s a passionate post marcy and a great read
notice however my bold;
that word “can” is the killer
now if I remember right, this quote continues and congress can ignore the commutation
I need to do some research
Emptywheel….saw you on Democracy Now. You were the best of the best. Hope in the future you will have many more opportunities to speak on a national forum. You have a gift for it.
Right now it’s (Rove) all about stalling for time. And the revision, along with the library can come later.
Jane Hamsher @ 28
It’s my personal opinion that this accomplishes both objectives.
The public response to the commutation has been very curious. I mean, with even the WaPo looking askance at it–not only was no one happy, but there is this mass moment of perplexment (is that a word?). So few people know what to make of this that it gives us an opportunity to explain it in simple terms.
In other words, Bush has given us a moment where we can do tremendous work to short circuit the mighty wurlitzer–even the mighty wurlitzer is perplexed. If we use it–and use it correctly–then we can completely disempower Bush.
Jane Hamsher @ 28
Jane, your point about “all-consuming process of impeachment” works in our favor, I think. Folks in the Admin will be running around like headless chickens (I can just see the email trails now) and will be too busy to get us into any more trouble. They may even be too busy to notice when Congress deauthorizes and then de-funds the occupation of Iraq. And to continue to pursue these banditos after Jan 2009 would be unprecedented (and IMO unlikely). The time is now. We aren’t going to get a do-over. (Hope you are feeling fine today.)
Jane Hamsher @ 28
But in 2, 5, or 10 years impeachment will no longer be an option. I believe our national self-respect requires that we impeach the b*stards now.
I think to ignore the Constitution and NOT impeach, is to violate the U.S. Constitution. The Constitution laid out the remedy for what Bush and his criminal cabal have done and will continue to do. To take the remedy “off the table” to rectify the criminal conduct of Bush et al is to violate the oaths of office of the Repreaentatives. Not to do the right thing is always wrong and will have consequences.
Some of us cling tight to the idea of justice.
Censure? Impeachment? Why not both?
Start with censure. Keep the investigations up full tilt. Hit the RNC with subpoenas for the WH’s emails, threaten them with contempt if they stonewall. Pull up as much concrete information as possible on the WH’s misinformation campaign on Iraq. Based on that information, then start impeachment.
Because you *know* that to successfully impeach these pigf*ckers, you’re going to need certified & notarized videotape footage of them screwing pigs on the White House lawn.
Well, censure is not nothing. Doesn’t look too good on one’s
resumelegacy. Not to mention, it will certainly fatten the albatross to be hung around the necks of those who oppose.But if I understand this correctly, and it’s merely a motion in the House to be voted on without having fact-finding hearings first, then count me out. For now.
I wonder how much time is being set aside for debate. Could Nancy bring it up, have the debate, then table the vote for a while?
THANKS EW!
While it does not surprise me to see the likes of Pelosi and Reid wring their hands, squirming and weaseling about impeachment, it DOES shock me to read the likes of Digby and Swopa fretting about it.
Bush, Cheney, Rove, Gonzales, and all their little hench-people have shown repeatedly that they have no respect for the law. None. It is Congress’ DUTY to impeach. Right now. No more waffling and groveling and apologizing.
And for all those who whine about not having the votes in the Senate to convict — last I checked, that’s what trials are FOR, to present evidence. Under impeachment, the executive branch CANNOT withhold documents. All the evidence would have to be presented. In the face of the evidence, the public will not tolerate the malfeasance that permeates this administration. And in the face of widespread public disapproval, Republican resistance will melt away, just as it did 30 years ago.
Excellent post!
OT
Talk about sickos… do you listen
to the garbage spewing from Ron Christy and
Rifkin’s mouths on Tweety’s show…
I was not impressed with Wilson’s lawyer…
they should hire Marcy…
jane,
i read you loud and clear, but aren’t we really worried that, because of the clinton impeachment and related bullshit in the 90s, the republicans effectively soured people on the idea, even if warranted?
you (correctly, imo) wanted the dems to go to the mat on alito; is this no less a do-or-die situation?
Christy Hardin Smith @ 34
I completely agree. And I doubt that Fitz could be made to break the law under any circumstances. I was just suggesting a possible response to the inevitable repub talking points.
Didn’t I read somewhere on the toobz yesterday that censure is the start and the first step?
emptywheel @ 14
Why can’t hearings on a motion to censure be used to extract the information you want; there’s nothing in concrete here that prevents the motion from evolving into more. The issue is how do you get support for the “the next step,” whatever that is.
I guess I have to agree with Jane on impeachment as well. I don’t like the idea that the war and anything else ChimpCO has done that’s costing lives (Katrina probably still, FDA deregulation and all kinds of deregulation, etc.) and needs attention, may be put on the back burner.
alibe @ 41
Amen.
Hell yeah! This is a great call to arms. The Founders fought so hard to include impeachment in our system of government for this exact scenario we are in! We’ve been hearing “there’s not enough time” and “waste of energy” arguments for far too long.
Look at all the info we’ve gotten from the Congressional hearings already. Imagine if some of those were impeachment hearings, and how much more info we’d have with all the rats turning on themselves to save their asses. You gotta tighten the screws! I would argue that there would be enough revealed by now that we’d get at least DeadEye, and we wouldn’t have to hear talk about, “Well, what if we lose? It’ll be portrayed as a Dem witchhunt.” Didn’t seem to hurt the Repubs after the Clinton fiasco.
I see there might be some debate about this issue even within the esteemed leadership of the Lake, but please everyone, get everyone you know to check out FDL and similar places. This is how we’re gonna restore the Constitution. Thanks for this post!
I feel like the Censure resolution is a lazy way to benchmark the level of support Impeachment would have. I believe it will muddy the waters. Did the Repubs have a censure resolution on Clinton prior to Impeachment?
spurious @ 40
Keep the eyes on the “prize”, Win the Presidential election and thus re-gain the machinery of government and increase House and Senate majorities. If that happens then all things become possible. I want to see US v Bush, US v Cheney and on and on, for war crimes. It is possible.
I don’t disagree with EW, but I will settle for some sign of life in the Democratic party.
Jane Hamsher @ 28
I tend to believe that impeachment is the most pragmatic route, both in the near and long term.
In the near term, the power of impeachment can function to strip away the executive privilege protection and expose the breathtaking scale and scope of the Bush administration’s wrongdoing. We’ve seen a lot, but all of the evidence thus far indicates that there is much, much more out there. Impeachment will get us much more evidence than we can otherwise gather using Congressional hearings alone.
Apart from whether the impeachment will be ’successful’ in the final Senate vote, it will have served a critical role of piercing the heart of the administration’s secrecy. That alone makes impeachment worthwhile.
So we use impeachment to focus in on the nexus of events leading up to the commutation. That brings in the lies that brought us to war and the lies that were told by Libby and others to cover up those lies. People understand wars and they understand lies. People hate this war and they want to see Bush challenged on any aspect of it. In the short term, impeachment lets people see Democrats standing up to Bush and exposing his lies and wrongdoing - which is a political winner. In the long term, impeachment helps begin the process of restoring our constitutional system of checks and balances by reasserting Congressional power.
Up until now, the “unitary executive” theory (among other power grabs) has allowed Bush to push around Congres and pervert the historical Constitutional dynamic of legislative and executive. He brought the gun to what had always been a knife fight. Impeachment is Congress’s ‘gun’ - it is the only effective countermeasure to Bush and one that the framers intended to be used in circumstances like this - and if Congress doesn’t use it they are doomed.
Does Barnum & Bailey work for the White House?
Where the fuck do they get these clowns..
i.e. Asst to Snow job: Scott Stenzel…
Do they have any shame?
The Congressional Dems are scared shitless of the polls. If they’re branded as the do-nothing, endless investigations Party, they think the public will vote them out of the majority in ‘08. This clearly confuses the Dem leadership on how to proceed. I think they want to impeach-but it’s not a, ahem, slam-dunk.
I’m not sure what to make of all this. I think censure is viable, impeachment less so. Remember that impeachment is a political, not legal, procedure. And with Clinton, the Repubs cheapened its value immeasurably-Clinton’s crime merited censure, but not impeachment.
Ironically, Bush’s crime(s) clearly merits impeachment, not censure. But thanks to Newt’s Congress, history is now fucking with us.
And I refer to every Tula Connell post for the Upton Sinclairish nightmare we are now being plunged into.
spurious @ 40
I want him in jail. Him and all the crooks in his administration.
I think censure would be devastatingly effective. I believe that it along with $3.50-$5.00 would get you a cup of coffee. It’s that good because we all know how this Administrtion reacts to words without solid, real world consequences.
Democrats. We are not playing marbles here.
Jail? Yes!
So if I understand this correctly (always a dangerous assumption on my part), censure is a consummation devoutly to be wish’d on the part of the Bushies (vs. impeachment). Does this suggest that Repugnants will be working behind the scenes somehow to allow/encourage censure to move forward? Even to the point of voting against tabling it as suggested above? Crikey, I hate being everlastingly one-upped by those obstructionists!
Complain about Libby and all they’ll do is scream MARK RICH!!!! at you.
EW “It would simply reinforce the notion that Bush’s Administration is above the law.”
The Bush administration is above the law….it is more than a “notion” it is a fact!
NO ONE NO ONE should wonder why so many people have a deep disrespect for the Bush administration and for our justice system.
We have a shell of a country, hollow, unfair, pathetic and immoral.
TiredFed @ 39
I think the Clinton impeachment is a very good example of government coming to a grinding halt while we all watch. I’m arguing that this is not the right time for that to happen, something has to be done, and that something is end the war. It’s not going to happen with one vote or two votes, it’s going to have to be an ongoing process that takes a lot of committment and resolve from a lot of people who aren’t very good at working together.
Jane Hamsher @ 61
First I’d like to see all them squirming before a jury of their peers.
The remedy is impeachment…
Will we be disappointed with next week hearings?
Based on past experience… perhaps yes
I think Senator Leahy should be the guy
to propose impeachment…
sorry for OT: Washington Talk Radio Station Drops Bill O’Reilly
emptywheel @ 38
Does impeaching Abu accomplish the same thing, without bringing government to a grinding halt?
alibe @ 41
I totally agree. It would be like the insidious phrase “past practice” inserted into every collective bargaining agreement I’ve ever seen which is used to beat people down with or nullify provisions of the contract in the future.
If we don’t use it for these egregious violations of our constitution by this faux patriotic bunch, of what future use will it be?
kiddo wants justice.
I know we should impeach NOW.. The only reason this has drawn out this long is because of the 4th of July recess,,,
I am hopeful that we get some Judiciary Committee action of this next week, and the investigation gets started. This whole process will grows some serious legs if/when two things happen, one is the connection of Libby’s perjury/obstruction charge to the false war justifications and the other is the inevitable dismal Iraq situation report due out in September..
I remember watching the corrupt Nixon administration self-imploding.. I’m getting the same smell now… “I Love the smell of napalm in the morning.. it smell like… Victory” Col. Kilgore in Apocolypse Now..
This stench of napalm is coming from Karl Rove’s office..
Congress is not going to impeach this President right now, no matter how good an idea it is, or how right it is, or for any other reason.
But I do not see a downside with impeachment of Gonzo. If it’s true that the public doesn’t care, why would they care if he was impeached? He’s unpopular with the Republicans too. He clearly broke the law, if by nothing else, lying to Congress. And the most important reason is that, he is the roadblock stopping all investigations into the WH. He refuses to answer subpeonas, he refuses to answer letters calling for investigations, etc.
DickCo. I am going back to the outing of a CIA identity is the perfect crime for them. A seed of secrecy inside a seed inside a seed.
If the Democrats are afraid that the American public will view impeachment and investigation of the Bush administration as nothing more than partisan “endless investigations”, then they are fools. That is exactly what the Bush administration wants us to believe, and it is exactly wrong.
Americans know what’s up. That’s why Bush is at 30%.
Whenever there is a hearing, Americans see more wrongdoing, whether it is Goodling, Gonzalez, Sampson, or Doan. Do Democrats really think that people are watching the hearings and saying “I really wish the Democrats would just leave all that alone”? The point of hearings and investigations is that by their very nature the focus is primarily on the purported wrongdoer, not the investigator. And if there is real wrongdoing (and with the Bush administration, there is never any question), then Americans will respond to the wrongdoing - they will not react negatively to the person exposing it.
David Ehrenstein @ 66
I thought they did a pretty good job of distinguishing between the two administrations on KO in terms of pardons. Clinton was generous with pardons. Bush is not. Clinton waited until someone served their jail sentence (re: poor Susan McDougal.) Bush did not.
They also pointed out that Scooter Libby was Rich’s lawyer. Hehehe.
Pat Buchanan:
Censure is saying that the President is breaking the law, but we’re not going to do anything about it. Is that a message for the President, because he’s not listening. It says as much about Congress as it does about anything else.
David Ehrenstein @ 65
Those were the first words out of Sen. Roberts’(R-KS)staff’s mouth when I callled this morning to see if he had a stance on the commutation of the sentence…that and well the felony charge stills stands. She hung up on me when she couldn’t respond to my arguments that debunk those talking points. Talk about cowards!
OT, but does anybody know what’s going to be in the Friday Doc Dump?
*xyz @ 56
I agree completely with this. Impeachment. If not now, when? If not with this President, then who?
It’s not about winning or losing. It’s about exposing the truth, not sweeping it under the rug again.
Jane Hamsher @ 61
and I want US to get restitution, as well.
Tony Snow: “Censure? Knock yourself out.”
Jane Hamsher @ 60
yes! Yes! YES!! And not Club Fed either, althoug in a pinch I would even go for that. But Bush, Cheney, and many others deserve to be tried for WAR CRIMES in an international court. For the children.
I think I’m a desperate man.
I recommend that Fitzy resign and break
the law and turn over ALL documents re: the
treason affair
Didn’t Daniel Ellsberg and others go to jail?
Sorry, I think I’m flipping out…
but ain’t we at the end of our patience…
GeorgeSimian @ 80
That’s my take, too. It seems to say, “We’re afraid to take on impeachment.” Are we?
mc @ 59
I wonder if we are not getting to some point where the dems cannot afford NOT to act; polls are down and I believe only solid action on Bush and Iraq will bring the polls up for the dems. Playing it safe is only going to tank their numbers further. And what if funds and grassroots volunteerism starts to dry up?
emptywheel @ 14
If you’re going to base your actions on whether Republicans complain, you might as well pack it in on impeachment anyway.
Barbara’s point is correct — these are not mutually exclusive steps, and as I note in my post, censure hearings can provide a useful forum for laying out a case for impeachment.
Jane Hamsher @ 61
Jane, I completely agree. But can we afford to wait? The rest of the world has watched the last 6 years unfold in disbelief. If these thugs are allowed to continue their activities unchallenged till the end of Bush’s term, in a sense we all will be seen to have been complicit.
perris @ 35
here ya go;
notice;
congress can suspend the president and vice president even before an impeachment
The current situation is the result of 40 years of work by the Republicans..there is no “magic that will un-do the damage. Take names and have long memories. For the next 18 months it is going to be holding actions, trying to limit further damage. To me, the first and perhaps only goal is to prevent the Iranian war. If Cheney/Bush attack Iran, this country is going over the cliff.
Gromit @ 86
Sounds a lot like “Bring ‘em on” doesn’t it?
We all know what happened after that remark.
I want these Bush people to for once, be forced to take responsibilty for what the have done.
David Ehrenstein @ 66
The correct analog to Libby is not Marc Rich. It’s Howard Hunt and Gordon Liddy. It’s the Watergate burglars. Libby, in fact, is very much playing the Liddy role.
If they scream MARK RICH!!! at you, calmly
reply, “Exactly. And you impeached Clinton, didn’t you?”
Or scream G GORDAN LIDDY back at them. Or both.