Ask yourself this: suppose the Democrats had announced weeks/months ago that impeachment was "on the table," that they were deeply concerned about the Administration's abuse of power, that it was undermining the Constitution and the rule of law across the board. There's lots more you could add to the list, but you get the idea.
Suppose they had also said that impeachment wasn't what they'd planned, and they certainly didn't need it to retake the White House in 2008 given this Administration's failures, but that they had become so concerned about the Administration's blatant lawlessness, and the possibility it could get even worse, that they wanted to make sure a vehicle was in place before then, if it seemed needed to prevent irretrievable damage to the country.
Suppose they had also said that the Administration's very acts of stonewalling every investigation being conducted to uncover wrongdoing could be viewed as an abuse of power, a coverup and potential support for an article of impeachment. For example, take the inquiry into whether the Administration had been careless in protecting national security secrets and assets; were they still trying to coverup the lying? Suppose that had been the setting yesterday, just before the President slipped his commutation into the media.
1. Would the President have hesitated in his actions yesterday?
2. Would the President have paid a higher price for his actions? e.g., would the public be more likely to see yesterday's actions as a confirmation of what the Democrats had been saying? Would that give the Republican's pause in defending it?
3. Would Democrats be in better shape both politically and legally to respond to the White House tactics regarding subpoenas and other investigative actions?
4. Would the Democrats be in better or worse shape for making the argument that the regime does not deserve to be in office, and that hence, removing them from office was now a more legitimate question?
5. Would the Democrats be in better or worse shape for the 2008 elections?
6. Would the country be in a better position to use its constitutional mechanisms to defend the rule of law, in a way that would strengthen those mechanisms for the future?
I don't pretend to have all the answers, and maybe I'm missing something. But can someone explain why answering these questions leads to doing nothing more than the Democrats have proposed so far?
The way I look at it, if you set the table correctly and hire a good cook who knows what to do with the ingredients given them, you're more likely to have a feast. As I watch the Bush/Cheney regime, they look like a walking high crimes factory, a regime that every day brings into our kitchen ingredients worthy of being considered in articles of impeachment.
It happens virtually every day, but the Democrats don't even look for impeachment recipies, while the nation is starving for justice and accountability.
(graphic courtesy Barbara)
Login Here
Share This
Spotlight
fitz!
zed!
UNO!
woo-hoo!
OK - sad news - but great work at the Lake
ok - dos…
hey, kirk murphy!
where ya’ been?
EPU’d
I like their style;
http://www.blah3.com/article.p.....3003617102
Scarecrow, these are the best questions I have seen yet on this topic. THANK YOU.
every few days, i say to myself “wow, that’s got to be scarecrow’s best yet”
just happened again. thank you, scarecrow.
Scuttle BusChen!
I’d like a double order of truth, please — hold the cover-ups.
scarecrow - those are hard questions!
Where’s a shrink when you need him?
It is like telling a criminal that I am not going to prosecute you for stealing the horse, robbing the bank, murdering the sherriff, but you better watch your step now, because maybe some day I might write you a strongly worded letter expressing my disturbance with your behavior.
No consequences for illegal actions means no reason to stop.
starving for justice and accountability indeed!
Righteous words. Thanks for setting them on the table.
AAAAAAaaaaaaarrrrrrrrgggggghhhhhhh!
I’ve spent most of the morning trying to get away from being down on the Democratic congress for acting like spineless politicians when I know perfectly well that ALL politicians are essentially spineless.
I’ve just about made it out of the woods and then Scarecrow comes along and lays it out in the typically succinct manner about just how very devoid of backbone they truly are. Arrrrrrrrrghhhhhhh!
I personally would very much like the Dems to try to impeach shrub/darth, but I don’t think an impeachment proceeding would have caused shrub to think twice about giving Libby clemency… in fact, it probably would’ve provoked shrub into giving him an outright pardon. Shrub doesn’t respond to threats… he’d sooner rule by decree and ignore Congress altogether than give ground.. it’s just his nature. He’s obstinate. We NEED to impeach this man and his cabal, but using the threat of impeachment won’t work with him. If we strike at him, we have to strike to remove him from office… anything short of that, he’ll just pugilistically shrug off, and, if he survives, he’ll just engage in even worse misbehavior. Shrub is incorrigible.
Scarecrow these are all great questions.
I know that REP will do nothing to stop the criminal activity of Bush Co. but DEMS won’t do anything either.
They won’t because they know more people voted in MSNBC’s Paris Hilton instant poll than the Scooter Libby poll.
In the end the politicians will take care of their own because the general public won’t hold them accountable.
I wish I wasn’t so negative about this but it won’t stop me from calling the WH and all my representatives.
Good post….
Spotlight time folks.
Well said Scarecrow.
Excellent post. Exactly right. Well, we’ve got to put impeachment on the table. We the people. If the parade is large enough Pelosi et al. will join. Sure we can email/write/call our representatives, senators, the judiciary committee (and calling chimpy was fun too: 202-456-1111), but ultimately, this will have to be a movement. Well, sign me up. We need impeachment parties to talk to our friends and neighbors. We need a political movement. Ideas?
Good afternoon (morning)everyone.
Big hug/thank you to Jane for the idea of the post and for the picture. I assume it’s from her home economics class a few years back. I took shop.
Interesting questions, huh? Like to know what overs thinks.
Meanwhile, the reactions keep pouring in. This from Reuters.
Not only do we need to set the table for impeachment, we need to preemptively warn people that any terrorist attacks that might happen during that process are of suspect origins and could well be ‘home grown.”
I wouldn’t put it past the Bush Crime Family to bomb Americans in order to divert attention from their illegal doings.
I don’t know the answers either, but Scarecrow sets the framing just brilliantly. Answering these questions should bring a few more Judiciary members to the table. I think you’re on to something here.
There has to be a way to reframe the impeachment debate, to the point where something so lacking in the Dems policy to date is set in motion.
I have written to my congressman, Barney Frank, asking him to lead the way to impeachment proceedings for Vice President Cheney and President Bush. He can throw in Gonzales if it will help get cooperation from the DOJ.
This “impeachment is not on the table” does not pass the sniff test, I told him.
Someday, people will look back to this time to see what those in power did to restore democracy in the US.
I am watching, the world is watching to see what you will do, Congressman Frank, to remove the most corrupt administration in the nation’s history.
I expect action from Barney Frank, Ted Kennedy and John Kerry. They must LEAD or my view of them is as dim as my view of the rest. This. Is. Their. Job.
mui @ 11
Well, we actually have one, probably several. You address him as “your highness.”
You know, you should forward this over the DLC-supporters at Daily KOS.
It happens virtually every day, but the Democrats don’t even look for impeachment recipies, while the nation is starving for justice and accountability.
Beats me, Scarecrow. If there was ever a presidential administration that deserved impeachment, it’s this one. I think it’s just their way of absolving themselves of the responsibility for doing something really unpleasant and potentially risky to their own individual careers. You can bet that quite a few of them have skeletons in their own closets, and if there’s anyone in government who knows about them, it’s Dick Cheney.
I can’t decide what impeachment would bring. In the end, acquittal, but while Clinton’s acquittal exposed the GOP hypocrisy for what it was, it’s not clear how Bush’s or Cheney’s would get spun - and remember hwo would be out there doing the spinning.
Here is what I do know (and what I wrote this morning):
I don’t trust that we have honest purveyors of information - those who, like John Dean, will say, of course these guys should be impeached - this is exactly what the founders had in mind.
We’ve got Ann Coulter, and we need Edward R. Murrow.
Isn’t there impeachment legislation in the CA legislature? If we can get a major state to draft articles (CA, IL?) and forward them to the judiciary committee, under Jefferson’s rules, would that spur the House into action?
1. Yes, That would mean paying attention.
2. No, the 28%’ers would stand by their man.
3. No, the WH would still thumb their collective noses at Congress and most of the Republican Congressional members would let them.
4. Better shape, the Dems would have another obvious point to point to.
5. Better again, see 4.
6. No, the WH would still thumb their collective noses at the people and most of the Republican Congressional members would let them.
And in related news, a truck containing 16 million doses of hydr*c*d*ne (V*cod*n) has been stolen near Chicago. Street value $32 Million to $80 Million
White House spokeman said “Don’t worry, be happy!”
~~~ModNote: Content edited to clear filters.~~~
Mutant Poodle @ 27
Today the repubs won’t behave honorably, but even the dems won’t put country and the constitution ahead of their fears.
.
Then dems and progressives in your state need to better organize, recruit, and elect some representatives who are not spineless.
Argh.
For 1, I meant that ‘Yes the WH would NOT have hesitated’.
Scarecrow @ 24
I’m counting one. I think there’s a second missing. Hmmmm.
Lets see now what happens when a government is a wholly own subsidiary of major corporations and an on going criminal conspiracy to over through the constitution, and the rule of law. Well we could prosecute them, but what they own the DOJ, Impeach them well that would mean someone would have to force congress to do it’s job. Hmm maybe we the the people could just pardon them for the rest of their terms in office.
To answer your first question, though, Scarecrow, I’d have to think that Bush would have done this anyway. It was in his self-interest to keep Scooter quiet, and that wasn’t likely to happen if Scooter ended up in jail. The only difference would be in how Congress responded.
From downstairs:
Deep in EPU land but…
A few commenters have bemoaned the futitlity of this entire process (calling Reps/Sens is a waste of time, Fitz shoulda gone for Big Time, Dems, Repubs are all corrupt) much to Christy’s consternation.
Well, the wheels of change and justice turn slowly. Can anybody ever have imagined (gee, where have I heard that line before?) that prior to 11/7/06 that there’d be a chance in hell of a Congressional investigation, let alone talk of impeachment?
Patience, folks. Keep calling, writing, hollering. Don’t let this go away.
Give truth back.
Toatally OT but I had to laugh out loud;
first this,
http://www.towncalleddobson.com/index.php?paged=20
followed by this,
http://www.towncalleddobson.com/index.php?paged=17
oops…I know what happened…V*cod*n trapped.
sorry mods!
update: thank you!
BTW the White House line 802-456-1414 is available and they’ll put you through to the comment line. It’s a long long time ringing, just hang on and you can eventually get someone.
scarecrow, the view from your cornfield is clear and compelling - thanks so much for sharing what you see (and ask) with us.
and Old Coastie - hi back at ya! I was off at camp with teh other dirt-worshipping tree huggers.
I’m back with joy for the wild and rage for those who destroy our living planet.
Scooter, Cheney, Shrub, and Rove merely serve the great Destroyers: the megacorps.
Last week at a different Lake, I renewed my vow to defend the living world in Her service.
I ‘m delighted to work with the great people at this Lake towards that end.
The path to restoring life and breaking the megacorps’ permanent control of the people and resources of the Untied States runs straight through the destruction of the GOP and the Bushies’ rule.
It’s a great morning to overthrow the Emperor and the megacorps that direct it.
Good to be at the Lake again.
Well put Scarecrow. Sometimes “taking the high road” leads to disaster. As long as these traitorous swine are given a free rein they will continue to do as they damn well please.
When I talked with my Congressperson’s office this AM I said that she (Carol Shea Porter) must sign the Kucinich impeachment bill as it seems the only way to stop cheney/bush from stomping on the Constitution again and again.
First caw caw?
Impeachment should be on the table, if only to keep Chimp and Shooter too busy to start a war with Iran. For what it’s worth, Andrew Sullivan is wall to wall Libby on his blog. He’s so angry he could spit nails.
scarecrow - spot on, once again.
Mutant Poodle @ 27
We’ve got Keith Olbermann, special comment tonight should scald eyeballs…but what we need is someone in the public service to have a Joseph Welch moment, “Have you no decency, sir? At long last, have you left no sense of decency?”
McCarthy did not and that was the fact. Bush does not have a sense of decency either, but that is not the point. The point is that there was finally a nexus moment, a crucial point and a clarion sound bite whereby the rest of the free world could finally realize that there was no decency in the man, and never would be.
Methinks the lady doth protest too much:
“A Decision Made Largely Alone” …http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/02/AR2007070202060.html?hpid=topnews
This article says, Bush “limited his deliberations over commuting the prison term of I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby to a few close aides, opting not to consult with the Justice Department and rebuffing efforts by friends to lobby on Libby’s behalf, administration officials and people close to Bush said yesterday.”
Yet,
“An unanswered question last night was Vice President Cheney’s role in advocating leniency for his former chief of staff and alter ego.”
There are a set of talking points that are going around to obscure that this is obstruction of justice. They all echo the nonsensical notion that political considerations, or here, his famed lonely stubbornness, factored into Mr. 28%’s decision making, not scrotum-tightening fear of legal jeopardy. These articles purport that the “conservative base” were eager for Libby’s pardon, despite that Republican office holders and candidates have remained mostly “conspicuously silent” (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/03/AR2007070300981.html?hpid=topnews ). This article also intones that, “In many respects, Bush’s statement explaining his decision suggests a classic political compromise” (I was initially suckered by this), with true believers pretending to believe that Libby is still getting a raw deal because he hasn’t been pardoned and cleared of wrongdoing outright.
He was in a hurry to commute, not pardon: Why else bypass DOJ, why else ignore the prescription that Libby begin serving time. Those have to go into our talking points.
Crazy Horse @ 22
I think the only way to create a sense of crisis beyond the halls of Congress… a smoking gun scandal to subvert domestic civil liberties, large-scale protests combined with a heavy-handed respond from the shrubbies, something… without that kind of catalyst to take this issue beyond the Beltway, I don’t see a serious impeachment effort…. and if we did convince Dems to start one, the propaganda machine will just respond by diverting press attention with blood-curdling new terror threats (a dirty bomb plot a day, probably). We need a catalyst…
I think the answer to the questions are in the negative. Impeachment and/or criminal charges against these people has to be driven from below; not from the Democratic leadership.
If, as is being spouted by the puerile MSM, that Bush is so low in the polls that he now feels “liberated”, the people will start demanding impeachment. I hope, if the little psychopath feels that he can stop pretending to be sane, that the shit will really hit the fan.
kirk murphy @ 41
I hope it was a seriously pagan affair. Because you know some of us would get some vicarious pleasure from that.
This is what I’ve been saying to people who say that it’s a waste of time or resources to impeach Bush. The problem is that Bush has already shown contempt for the law and is abusing power under the Constitution left and right. Impeachment should not be pursued because it’ll help the political fortunes of the Democrats. It should be pursued because the President is breaking the law.
I ask at MyDD: what resources are being saved by ruling out impeachment entirely. What can the Democrats accomplish, given that they are afraid of holding Bush to his job description and are unwilling to pursuing punishing him for breaking the law? Democrats apparently cannot stop the war in Iraq. Hey - Bush has a veto and will use it! That same veto will stop any moderately progressive legislation; that is, presuming it could get through the Senate, which it cannot. So, legislatively, the wafer-thin majority in the Senate means that this Congress will accomplish almost nothing.
But, I am told, the Democrats have subpoena power and can investigate Republicans! Oh, can they? And how is that going? We have Republicans flatly refusing to testify on Capitol Hill in the USA case. So, Leahy’s remedy is to…refer the Contempt of Congress charges to Abu Gonzales? Well, that’ll fix their wagon!
The problem with Pelosi’s statement is that it was compltely pre-emptive and unnecessary. Saying “we won’t impeach the president” means “we won’t impeach the president, no matter what he does”. It just opens the doors to two more years of bad behavior. It was irresponsible to do this before any investigations had started.
Weak. Very weak. Get used to that word, as we’ll be hearing a lot of it next year. Any Democrat who cannot stand up to Bush is going to be asked how he’ll stand up to Vladimir Putin who, like Bush, does not have the best interests of Americans in mind, but unlike Bush, is a fairly intelligent man.
It’s a big world out there and I worry that Democratic leaders don’t really grasp the long-term implications of their cowardice.
kirk murphy @ 41
Hope you were there for the full moon. More power to you.
linnen @ 29
wrt 2 — I don’t care about the 28% crowd; it’s tthe next 20% or so that might pause.
wrt 3 — same answer; the WH is hopeless; but they are losing friends who understand how toxic they are.
wrt 6 — use it of lose it; if the Dems say, impeachment is a legitimate constitutional means for checks/balances, that stand alone will help preserve it for the future, even if the clock runs out. In law, you have to raise a defense to preserve on appeal; if you don’t use muscles, they atrophy, etc, etc.
TexB @ 33
I go back and forth on whether it’s fear or practicality, and I don’t mean that as a dirty word.
Years ago, someone did me waaay wrong, and my thought was that I’d like to kick the sh*t out of him. And I probably could have.
But it wouldn’t have done me any good, and perhaps some harm.
I think that, if you’re not going to get rid of Bush or Cheney (and you’re not), then, sadly, impeachment becomes a political issue. If it helps the Dems politically, then go for it all out. If they can’t figure out a way to make it work for them politically (this is the Democratic party, remember?) then position yourselves as best as possible, keep the powder dry, and try and crush - and I do mean crush - the GOP in 2008.
I am very conflicted about this, because I think Bush and Cheney should be booted. But I also think it’s very important that no Republican get near the oval office for quite some time after these bozos leave.
Just like a wimpy liberal - always looking at the nuance.
From Mutant Poodle
…one that wonders if our democracy can survive this assault. The difference is that today, those who lie to excuse the inexcusable are heralded figures in our public discourse, and not just Ronald Ziegler.
I agree, and this is a huge concern. All the more reason to given them an issue to think about — and which the blogs can pound them on?
I want my party to try the ‘courage thing’. They might actually like it.
I want to hear the words “obstruction of justice” uttered by every Congressional Democrat and presidential candidate, and see the words “obstruction of justice” posted on every representative and senator’s website.
The elimination of jail time is a less important facet of this story (excepting the likely fact that Libby said “no jail time and pay my bills or I’ll talk”). The prevention of Libby testifying according to the rules of commutation is the rub. Along with the refusal to answer Congressional subpoenas, this act finishes off the wall.
So, here we are, Democrats. Rove has challenged your reason for being, 33 years after Nixon’s articles and resignation, nine years after a failed coup d’etat. This is the show. What’ll it be? Will you let these crimes stand unchallenged, and rend the party, which is what Rove wants? Or will you unite the country and the party behind a fierce, unflinching investigation in defense of the Constitution, and act on those findings?
Bush doesn’t have a 28 percent approval among Democrats. He has a 28 percent approval rating among all American voters. You’re in the batter’s box, and the president is meat. Will you take a cut on behalf of the Constitution and the rule of law?
Has Gore commented yet?
I’ve not been an impeachment fan, primarily because I can’t count to 17 (the number of Republican Senators / Joe Liebermen you’d need) to convict and remove.
But as I tried to impress upon my congressman’s staffer this morning: even without conviction, impeachment could be a useful investigative tool in a situation like this. Impeachment simultaneously strips away executive privilege and the power of pardon. Anyone who has been witness to crimes in the WH or OVP is suddenly back on the hook very personally, and King George won’t be able to help them.
Millineryman’s postcard for your elected officials
If nothing else, we can use this against all the GOoPers who accuse the Democrats of being ’soft on crime’ and want the sentencing guidelines tightened up (read: longer sentences).
johnSwifty @ 47
Either this is a tipping point, a la the Saturday Night Massacre (which was so revealing of Nixon’s character) or it isn’t. Becuase the linkage is indirect, I think it’s tougher. We need people (and maybe Keith can pull it off) who can make the argument simple and sticky.
Murrow, of course, had a massive audience - Keith is great, but he’s preaching to the choir.
CNN has a story coming up on anger on the blogs about Libby!
I’m not at all sure we have Democracy in this country anymore. We have lobbyists though.
scarecrow;
ding ding ding
whoever has her ear needs to get that exact text off to pelosi
Press all over SnowJob
LS @ 62
There’s anger on the blogs? Getta outta town, CNN.
How about substituting “would” for “will”. Let’s take it forward from here.
Remember the shiny objects…what are they going to do while we talk about this. What is next?
WSJ: Gates Trades the Surge for Permanent Iraq Bases
http://electioncentral.tpmcafe.....iraq_bases
I wonder what our president in exile has to say about this republic of the few, for the few, who oppress the many.
Mutant Poodle @ 53
Quite the contrary! Life is nuanced and multifaceted. It takes intelligence to see and appreciate nuance. But it takes courage to not be frozen and apathetic when the nuance threatens to overwhelm.
That is why Ronald Reagan was regarded as such a hero by so many. He made it ok to take ol’ Uncle Ronny’s word and not worry about the nuance; and cowards flocked to that opportunity like shit through a goose.
Don’t shy away from the nuance. Embrace it, find a way through it. It is a concept of ’slipperiness’ as the eastern philosophies describe it. As it attempts to elude you, so must you slide, adjust and find a way to grasp it….I’m done trying to paraphrase the I Ching now, sorry.
I am waiting for the uproar from my party.
Good stuff, scarecrow.
I especially like the fact that you lay this on the Congressional democrats as a whole, and not Nancy Pelosi. She may have made the “off the table” comment, but she did so because as the leader of the House Dems, she has to keep them together. There have no doubt been many, many closed door caucus meetings, and she knows she has the support of the caucus to only go so far.
If you want to push Nancy, you’ve got to push the reluctant Dems who are holding back. Call their district offices, find out which parades and festivals they will be at tomorrow, and let them know in person (with signs or shouts or both) exactly what you think needs to be done next week when they get back to DC.
Investigate obstruction.
Demand accountability.
Restore the Rule of Law.
If they won’t be at a parade near you, bring your signs to your local 4th of July celebration, and get your message on TV.
Perhaps something like “Down With King George — Again!”
This needs a 50 state, 435 district push, and there’s no time like tomorrow.
I’ve not been an impeachment fan, primarily because I can’t count to 17 (the number of Republican Senators / Joe Liebermen you’d need) to convict and remove.
21 Republicans up in 08. But it won’t go to trial. If the votes are there, McConnell will walk up to the oval office with a heavy heart, just like Goldwater did.
If they don’t get him out of office, they are going to be under 40 seats in the Senate. Allard’s gone already. Warner’s not raising money. Sununu is in the 20s. Collins just got a wakeup call. Smith and Coleman are in deep trouble. Ted Stevens is gonna get indicted–as may McConnell. I agree. 17 is a big number. But it looks smaller every time the president opens his mouth.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 70
You are your party.
mui @ 49
Thanks, mui!
It was a deeply and happily pagan affair - the California Witchcamp!
(mothercamp of the global network of witchcamps in the Reclaiming tradition)
(and the full moon was a delight :)
Bright Blessings!
PS - This year’s free activist witchcamp in SW Washington State (Aug 12-18) is a great way for political activists to experience witchcamps without financial obstacles.
Scarecrow @ 24
Scarecrow, thanks…
but I’m much more comfortable with plain ‘ol “Kirk”.
And when do we address the completely worthless democratic party?
i think the spineless argument is dead. when they should feel the most empowered they still act feckless and weak.
to me, all they are is the good cop for the republican bad cop. i gurantee you the democrats in office confer and discuss with thier republican counterparts a hell of lot more than they do with you or me, thier constituents.
the end game is when we get out on the streets and stop EVERYTHING.
until that happens we’re just pissing in the wind.
Cujo359 @ 36
I’m willing to concede that Bush was in a bind and had to do something. But even if he saw himself forced to do this under my scenario, I’m suggesting it would have played differently today; we need to increase the price he pays every time his undermines the rule of law.
This is hardball, and if the Dems don’t have a credible threat on the table, they’ve got no leverage against a regime that does not play by the rules and will disregard law and public to save themselves. Fine. Make it apparent.
Mutant Poodle @ 60
Too true.
johnSwifty @ 71
I embrace nuance.
Here’s the un-nuanced version: Democrats should do whatever will cause the GOP - and Bush - the most long-lasting, shrieking, personal and political pain they can inflict. If that’s impeachment, great. If it’s not, then whever it is, make it good.
I sent messages of impeachment to my great Congressman Jerry Nadler, and to my useless Senators Mr. Chuck ‘Hard Work’ Schumer and Ms. Hillary ‘I can’t wait to have Bush’s power’ Clinton.
I also wrote to Speaker Pelosi, reminding her that if Impeachment is off the table, so is Democracy.
Many thanks to Scarecrow, Christy, Jane, Marcy and the wonderful crew at FDL for fighting the good fight. Lather, Rinse, Repeat!
joe wilson on CNN…
brendan @ 74
It almost seems like we are hollering into a vacuum. Almost no word from a lot of congress critters (Yes they are back to being critters for me). And no, I don’t care what date it is!
Keith is having a special comment tonight…calling for impeachment. Loud and clear. How can we use this?
visceral, passionate impeachment screed from Rusty1776 over at DailyKos:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyo.....194420/909
2 or 3 years ago many ‘progressives’ captured by the (D) party were all opposed to talk of full withdrawal from the already failed occupation of Iraq.
well now it is safe and acceptable to say and think that - when will it be accecptable to demand that your (D) politicians do their Constitutional duty and initiate impeachment, and credibly threaten withdrawal of support and/or active opposition if they don’t?
Thoughts on impeachment
The argument against impeachment has been that:
a) the effort would soak all energy away from the many other needed efforts of the Democratic majority, and;
b) that impeachment effort would not make it out of the House, let alone Senate.
The cost of all that impeachment effort would be that absolutely nothing (impeachment or any other effort) would be accomplished under this congress.
While this was a reasonably tenable argument early in this session–in the heady days after the ‘06 elections–it is now clear that NOTHING is making it though the Senate. The minority is successfully obstructing, and boasting about it. So the notion that this Congress is going to make progress on any substantive progressive issue is simply unrealistic. Congress has a huge case of constipation, and the site of the blockage is clear.
So, if we are doomed to pursue hopeless legislation regardless of what that legislation may be , why not tilt at the very best, most important of windmills. The one that will make us proud of the attempt, regardless of victory or defeat.
And that is the halt of executive over-reach before that amassed power can no longer be challenged by the first branch. As it stands today, each and every future president can look back at Bush’s constitutional crimes and see a GREEN LIGHT. And, just as importantly, so will future legislators. The precedent set.
I do not doubt that many democrats’ mouths are watering over what the Libby commutation means politically for the ‘08 election. Just earlier today, Christy Hardin Smith thanked Bush (albeit bitterly) for his action. On the other hand, many republicans are cheering this abuse of justice, just as they have cheered all the executive’s other abuses. And so it goes.
For the future health of the republic, savoring (or threatening with) anticipated Democratic landslides and deepening presidential poll numbers are completely irrelevant.
So I ask you–what would you rather have Congress waste its time on. Immigration and minimum wage, or the very core viability of our government as composed of three equal and independent branches.
kirk murphy @ 75
Kirk, you rock. I’ll look into it.
Peterr @ 72
These are good points. At a certain point we have to decide which Democrats we trust, and which need to be worked on. I decided a while ago that I was just going to trust Pelosi, especially this year when she bumped off Harman, supported Murtha, and went to Syria. Pelosi is with us, but she’s not omnipotent; no one is, not even Cheney.
If CNN intimates that all this anger is only being expressed or felt in the blogs, I will scream.
johnSwifty @ 78
Perhaps emails to Brian Williams, asking that NBC also carry Keith’s Special Comment at the end of his Nightly News broadcast would be in order. Keith needs to reach the folks that don’t generally check into the Countdown.
Tomthy Noah:
Glaring sophomoric Red Herring 101. SOMEONE in the chain of leaking culpably knew it, but the obstruction neutered the possibility of finding out and prosecuting the offense.
But, they’ll just sing this song ad nauseum. They’re counting on aggregate public apathy. Probably gonna work. I won’t hold my breath for Congress to act.
Depressing.
While I completely agree with the majority sentiment presented. We must be realistic about impeachment. If there were no tapes of Nixion’s conversations showing his complicity in Watergate, he would not have resigned. He MIGHT have been impeached, but he would have been acquitted. Book it that the Bush admin. has learned all the mistakes that Nixon made - complete plausible deniability for the President. We will not find a smoking gun. Impeachment with acquittal is a loss for demos. and America. It doesn’t change anything and will only be used by the right as an example of how Bush was NOT GUILTY, the opposite of what is true. However, impeachment and conviction of Cheney and Gonzo is possible and would help the country and the progressive cause. Let’s do something that might actually get results, not just complain about how we wish things were different.
Steve @ 48
Uh, Steve — I’m as “below” as it gets.
Scarecrow nails all the questions, and FirePups have good responses.
But, the bottom line is, our dem’s are as much a part of militarism, interventionism, oil racketeering, corporate racketeering, and are bought and paid for by the same sources the pub’s are.
Asking the dem’s to actually DO something about the pub’s would mean asking them to give up their power and control and priviliges.
Only people in the street singing songs and carrying signs will persuade our elected officials to snap to and think about the Constitution first, themselves second.
Great postings, all, Christy is lit up and taking it to them.
I’ve made my calls and sent my emails.
Tomorrow, I smoke, grill, and delight in the pleasures of a whirring blender with my honey and our neighbors as we share food and laughter.
Best to all, Unka Sam could USE a day off methinks . . .
Bush, Cheney, and Gonzo need to be impeached simultaneously for all of the obvious reasons. Bush can’t pardon Gonzo and Cheney, if he is being impeached. Do I have that right?
This was done under a Cheney directive. While the boy king and daddy feasted on Maine lobsters and looked into Putin’s soul on their soil. It is quite a spectacle to watch them self-destruct. Think of it as a gift to the Democrats which will bear fruit and then some in 2008.
Could this portend the continued demise of the Repug party?
This isn’t about Libby - or even Bush/Cheney. It’s about the fabric of law that binds us in a civil world. It’s coming unraveled.
To me, impeachment is only a start. At best impeachment just removes the buggers from office. Personally, I’d like to see ‘em in leg irons.
Absent a clear repudiation of her “impeachment is off the table” remark delivered sometime no later than August 1, Nancy Pelosi’s utility as Speaker of the House becomes unrecoverably compromised. As such, her legacy as Speaker will be remarkable only for its failures, and brief.
jayackroyd @ 73
this has been my point since we won the majority
the senate and congress are HATING the president right now, it’s because if HIM they lost their power, their jobs
and MORE will loose power and jobs in the next election
they WILL deal, they WILL throw the president under the bus because the president threw THEM under the bus
we NEED to deal, we need to promise them uncontested election, we need to promise them some pork to go with that
we have got to deal and get them on board
the time is runningn out, we will soon be attacking Iran, there will be martial law and civil war
then it will be too late
time for the democrats to deal and this commutation is just the means they can use to make their position clear
it will be easy for them to say;
“libby was convicted of covering the tracks of traitors, it appears the president is obstructing justice and we can only assume he was a party to that treason”
bing
BobbyG @ 90
Bobby–
it’s much worse than that. Walton reviewed the evidence, admissible and not, classified and not, and concluded that Libby’s obstruction had successfully prevented the IIPA violation from being prosecuted. That