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If you were to watch the elite punditocracy bloviating on the cable news shows you'd think that Scooter Libby's liberation from justice would induce big sighs of relief on the part of the American public, but the reality seems to be quite different. According to a new SurveyUSA poll, people actually do care about this case and don't like what has happened -- 60% think Libby should serve his sentence. Only 21% agree with the President's decision.
Contrary to the GOP talking point that Bush is playing to his base, he's not. It's clearly not about poll numbers. Bush is covering his own tracks and obstructing justice.
I know this will come as a complete shock to those in the Libby Lobby who think the rest of the country must agree with them that Scooter does indeed deserve to be above the law, but their over-representation on cable television does not seem to be carrying the day on this one.
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Zed
JANE!
Zed?
whoa
So close but yet so far.
I just participated in MSNBC’s poll, it’s sunk to 72% from 83%!!! WTF!!!
Libby should serve his sentence.
Bush 2000 Flashback:
“So when I put my hand on the Bible, I will swear to not only uphold the laws of our land, I will swear to uphold the honor and dignity of the office to which I have been elected, so help me God.”
“In my administration, we will ask not only what is legal but what is right. Not just what the lawyers allow, but what the public deserves.”
For the history, see:
“Neither Right Nor Legal: Libby and the Bush 2000 Standard.”
And I say once again, it’s a sad day when Paris Hilton shows more respect for the law and legal system than the President of the United States shows
CTuttle @ 6
I voted on IE and on firefox.
Keep Voting your ANGER!
Do you agree with President Bush’s decision to commute former White House aide I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby’s prison sentence?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19570520/
93470 votes at 10:00pm
72% Against Bush!
Fitz!
So, sadly I just had to inform my husband that he’ll soon be out of a job since he works in corrections. Apparently, being convited is punishment enough and no one is going to be locked up any more. I think I just busted a vien in my forehead!
Jane: Heard you on Rachel’s show, you sounded great.
damned right we do!
Least we forget: The Rat Fink
AZ Matt @ 16
Do they mind having someone on staff who is always wrong?
looseheadprop @ 12
LHP - nice to see you. I was looking for you at 92 downstairs. Can you answer that?
From what I just read on the link below, Bush don’t have the power to commute sentence’s.
Please read and confirm or deny this posting.
Bush Commutes Libby’s Sentence
SnarKassandra @ 9
Gee, Cassie, has someone already taught you to vote early and often?
If you can do it, so are others. Or do you have to use a different browser, or a different computer each time you “vote”?
Hmmm. I voted, but only once.
Actually, the 72% sounds reasonable to me. Its about the same as Bush’s general disapproval ratings.
Bob in HI
AZ Matt @ 15
If Wolfowitz is a scholar, so is the cat who owns my house.
Kerri @ 12
Don’t worry Kerri - not having to face the consequences of your crimes only applies to Loyal Bushies. If your a DEM expect bogus charges to be filed and pursued - at least until January 09.
Bush doesn’t care about the polls. We’ve known that for a long time and this morning’s WaPoo puff piece on him only confirms that.
But the rest of the repigs should care about the polls. It’s their careers on the line.
Again, I think that Harry and Nancy need to call a special session of Congress on July 4, Independence Day and reaffirm the Constitution and rule of law.
I’m going to go find some flags on sticks tomorrow and re-staple them upside down for my lawn on Wed. Along with phone calls & faxes tomorrow, its the least I can do.
Mutant Poodle @ 17
Do they have anyone on staff who is ever right?
“According to a new SurveyUSA poll, people actually do care about this case and don’t like what has happened — 60% think Libby should serve his sentence.”
I just love these pundits that say nobody cares outside the beltway, wrong!
Hi, Jane! Hi, all!
OK, back to my pet project. I hope I don’t get sued! LOL ; )
http://armandomontelongo.blogspot.com/
Mutant Poodle @ 16
Apparently not.
MSNBC poll is 71/29 right now.
Can we get our national flag changed to the skull and crossbones, since we’re not going to be a nation of laws any more?
(I called Waxman’s office when I got home and asked for impeachment, since George has obstructed justice and lied on a matter that can be easily checked, namely the length of the sentence. I managed to be polite to the nice staffer who answered the phone.)
I deliberately didn’t turn on the tv. They’re expensive and I don’t want to have to replace it.
I wonder if this could be a ipping point. John Dean made a comment on KO that I think bears repaeting b/c he handed everyone THE talking point.
This is about Bush showing contempt for the rule of law and turning over a JURY VERDICT.
Ya know? A jury of regular joes. Like the rest of America.
This is simple and cannot get all tangled up in spin about underlying crimes.
Jane, you are better at this than anyone. We need to drive this message–
George W. Bush has just upended a JURY VERDICT.
DO NOT get caught up in the literal details of commutation vs. pardon. We need to keep it simple.
1) A jury found him guilty
2) a republican judge gave hime a sentence within the guidelines range
3) 3 more judges affirmed that sentence
4) George W. Bush showed contempt for all of them all and for the rule of law
We need to hammer this over and over and over untile we hear it disussed on every MSM program and read it in every MSM paper.
My god. I’ve scraped things off the bottom of my shoe that were less disgusting than Bush and his Bush Buddies.
Jane I am listening to you on the radio right now. You are SO COOL!!!
Can I be you when I grow up?
Actually, for the AEI, that’s a job requirement. Not a bug, a feature.
looseheadprop @ 29
In-freakin-deed.
OK, Pelosi, have you cleared the f..king table yet????
Tipping Point? Tipping toward what? Bush will lose a few approval points for a month or two- and that’s about it…I now understand why Cheney had such low regard for the consequences of fuckin over america- there ARE no consequences for fuckin over these sheeple NONE- NADA.
Why do they have the right to turn the phones off at the WH? Those are our phones, paid for by us. If they can’t take the heat (and the calls) they should resign.
Scarey thought:
This is Bush & Cheney’s opening salvo in their ultimate flip-off of America. “Wait…they’re just getting started” as a friend of mine put it after the news today.
So here’s the question: will regular Republicans - you know, the ones who believe in limited government, rule of law, etc., the ones who aren’t wingnutty but just traditional conservatives - see this as a kick in the teeth of justice? Because if they do, I think W will lose whatever party support he has. If he loses the Wall Street/Main Street Republicans, what has he got?
Absolutely. This is major league CYA. Free Libby, fight the subpoenas, the last thing this Administration wants is the public to see how corrupt, incompetent, and criminal they have been.
I wish someone was in a position to leak the damage assessment regarding the leak of Ms. Plame’s front company. If people were killed over this leak the country should know about it.
Just sayin’
SnarKassandra @ 31
You’re already on your way.
RevDeb @ 40
Yeah!!!!!
looseheadprop @ 30
Thanks for that, Looseheadprop. This is just the sort of soundbite that’s needed.
So what is our next step? Flooding the White House is fine for a one day story, but should we be contacting our Congress critters to take a particular action? What can they do specifically?
Gunga Djinn @ 37
That’s what I thought. I can’t see this as anything other than a challenge to Congress. Don’t forget, they create their own realities.
History teaches us that they will get theirs in the end. How long do we have to wait?
RevDeb @ 41
I wouldn’t be surprised…I imagine some CIA folks are very pissed.
Of course, THAT leak would be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
Here’s the part about not having the authority to commute sentences.
“
Commutation is a Power for Governors Not Presidents
Submitted by Anonymous on 2 July 2007 - 7:43pm.
No Federal Caselaw supports this illegal assertion of non-delegated Judicial Power.
Only Two Options: The President illegally created a new, third option outside what the Framers intended. This option only exists for Governors.
The President has two options in re Libby: To issue a reprieve or a pardon. Neither was done.
“he shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment.”
Article II
There is no mention of “commutation” in the Constitution, only pardons and reprieves. The three are not the same.
Definitions
All actions related to the Libby commutation fall outside the Constitution.
Reprieve: “postpone the punishment of a convicted criminal, such as an execution” — The President did not do this, but gave him “half a pardon”. This is illegal–Nothing was postponed; ,b>some of the sentence was ignored.
Pardon: “forgiveness: the act of excusing a mistake or offense. This was not done.
Commutation: The reduction of a sentence, as from death to life imprisonment. This was not lawfullyl done; the President was delegated no power to do this. He may only issue pardons or grant repreives.
Conclusions
1. Non-delegated
The President asserted a non-delegated judicial power. The Constitution and no precedent supports this action. The “commutation” option does not exist in the US Constitution, only at a State level by governors.
2. Unlawful action
The President has illegally reduced the sentence of Libby. He has the power to delay the entire the sentence [reprieve]; or he can forgive Libby [pardon]. The President chose to do something that was a “middle option,” but that option does not exist.
3. War Crimes
The President’s actions in re Libby today are Unconstitutional, and linked apparently with efforts to reward Libby for thwarting the Geneva Conventions in re unlawful retaliation against witnesses to war crimes.
4. Obstruction of Justice
The President has illegally asserted powers not delegated in re Libby sentencing. This is illegal, impersmissible, and suggests obstruction of justice to reward Libby for retaliation and other illegal activity.
» reply”
This is from the link I posted above.
For Helen, from the last thread
July 2nd, 2007 at 6:35 pm
CTuttle @ 69
GSD @ 55
Bush has once again shoved everyones face in shit.
More and more people on the inside are going to ratfuck the administration.
I bet there are some mighty fired up CIA folks these days. Not to mention DOJ, JAG, NASA and FEMA and EPA……..
Bush is consigning himself to the asheap.
However, will the Republic survive long enough to see this trash-heap kicked to the curb?
-GSD
I fervently hope Fitz is calling Sen. Leahey and Rep. Waxman’s offices to chit-chat! Fitz, had declined to comment further to their respective Committees, I believe, he is about to have a change-of-heart!!! ;-)
He needs DOJ’s permission. Think he’s gonna get it? I don’t.
According to the US Attorney’s Manual all “requests” for information from Congress have to be funneled through the Office of Legislative Affairs (OLA), which I doubt will be giving him a green light any time soon.
However, if SOMEONE had the brains to issue a subpeona to him……
You see he would them be compelled, as an officer of the court, to obey lawful process (”process” being a legal term for a subpeona, writ, summons or similar legal device that confers power over a witness or litigant)
It is m belief that it was for this reason that the fired USA’s demanded to be subpeona’d
I’m posting some interesting video from earlier this evening from the talking punditry on Scooter Libby’s commened jail time.
Here’s Joe Wilson’s interview from olbermann and I’m uploading some classic kool-aid moments from the past three hours or so.
JT
AMBASSADOR JOE WILSON REACTS:
(Countdown/Keith Olbermann)
SCOOTER LIBBY HAS 2 1/2 YR. SENTENCE COMMUTED BY PRESIDENT BUSH
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b326YqS8Xio
I’d be very curious to know what the people at the CIA think of this, knowing that their covert agents can be exposed on the whim of the Administration with no consequences or repercussions.
EPU’d from the Fitz statement thread, ’cause I’m MAD AS HELL and if I don’t post something, somebody is gonna get hurt:
—————-
Anyone else get a whiff of Fitz’s Irish temper coming through his statement?
The entire statement REEKS of rage, and justifiable too. Here’s a man who really BELIEVES in “truth, justice and the American way” and the thug in the White House just told him none of that is true.
Goddamn it. Let’s take to the streets. Let’s fly the flag half-mast on the 4th. Above all, let’s DO something…write your your Congresspeople…about impeachment. Before this, I wasn’t sure how I felt about impeachment…not because I don’t want the criminals out of Our House, god kows. But because I thought it would be an exercise i futility. I have now officially changed my mind.
Mutant Poodle @ 17
Everyone there is wrong all the time. He will fit right in. The architect of the”surge” Fred Kagan is from the AEI. It’s where neocons go. It’s like the elephant’s graveyard except it’s for bloviating discredited assholes in need of wingnut welfare.
I was disappointed (yet again), but not really surprised. I think, though, what bothers me most is not that Bush is thumbing his nose at our rule of law, our Constitution, and the ordinary American people who have to let their families suffer when they do something wrong….it’s that he’s laughing at us while he’s doing it. He knows that nothing is going to come of it and he personally will walk away, rich and untouched. That just eats at my soul.
bush is a moron… this has cheney’s fingerprints all over it… he is the one running this country, not bush.
There are already 54 pages of comments on the Washington Post web site on this story as of 10:19PM EDT. Story is time-stamped at 7:28PM EDT
I actually think this is a lot more serious than the talking heads seem to believe. We’re talking about a convicted felon here. It’s one thing to rail against stupid regulations or dunderheads at the RMV, we’ve all been there. It’s quite another to say that someone convicted by a jury, and a Republican judge, and a Republican prosecutor, shouldn’t go to jail just because he has rich friends. That’s not going to play well in regular America, IMHO.
TRex @ 51
Excellent point and there are folks at the CIA and operations within the CIA capable of striking back one way or another. I wonder if we’ll recognize it when it hits.
RevDeb @ 41
RevDeb, thinking the same thing. Where, oh where, is our generation’s Daniel Ellsberg?!
Mutant Poodle @ 46
By the time it came to court there will be a democratic president. Also the files might just get lost during the transition . . .
ARgh.
this is fine news to arrive home from work to. If i wasn’t outraged before, this is even more so. The arrogance is just off the bloody well SCALE with them. It has no end.
MCD @ 56
Not morons. Just evil.
Bob Schacht @ 20
Aloha, Bob! Cassie certainly learned at an early age!!! She has my vote in ‘32!!! *g*
It is time that we, as Americans, begin the process of public shunning these criminals. They should not be allowed to walk the streets without public scorn, shunning, dunning and approbation. Just as people are disgusted by a pervert in their midst, this is the way these people should be approached. Boo them. Spit on the street in front of them. Put posters near their neighborhoods to warn of a criminal element in our midst. Pass a bill that these people cannot live near a school or place where decent people live or congregate. Public SCORN! Believe me, this is worse than prison. Make Libby be as welcome as OJ in a public setting. His whole family should be pariahs. And also all the other creeps from this criminal organization.
TRex @ 51
I predict, sadly, that Scooter will get a job at some fundie think tank where he will be trotted out as an expert on national security, and no one in the MSM (save Keith) will even blink.
I am, I fear, in my “how bad could it get” phase. Give me time - I’ll come up with worse.
TRex @ 51
This is the point that interests me too! Where is the outrage from the agency most affected by this crime. I know most cannot talk about it, but WTF…doesn’t the Washington Post almost entirely rely on anonymous quotes?
Slothrop @ 58
Blowback by any other name would smell as sweet :)
Tucker Carlson should be made to pay for not disclosing his father is a member of Scooter Libby’s Defense Fund. After David Shuster explained the case in plain english Tucker called it “Bullshit” and said nothing when Shuster mentioned the members of the Defense Fund in his reporting today. Tucker should be held to account for his biased views in his commentary and what may have influenced those views.
Rob Zuber @ 45
1)Censure
2)Investigate
3)Subpoena
4)Go to court to enforce subpoenas
5)Immunize Libby and make him testify
6)Using the findings from the above–or,if the administration stonewalls, use that as the basis–impeach Bush and Cheney for obstruction of justice.
Bush is responsible. Again. And I think there are a lot of dynamics involved in this dirty business surrounding the commutation. I just hope that Mr. Fitzgerald will once again do the lifting.
Mutant Poodle @ 38
Really are there any of those REP left? In the end they got their two conservative judges on the supreme court and their tax cuts.
Who cares that American Foreign Policy has made us pariahs in the world? Who cares that people are detained without due process? Who cares that people are tortured?
Not any REP judging by the applause heard during the REP debate in support of torture.
Anyone know the terms of Libby’s probation? If he were to violate the conditions of his probation he could still be sentenced to jail for a probation violation. Bush would have to commute his sentence a second time.
You know the thing that got Nixon were two words: crook and coverup. I think we need to resurrect them.
Bush is engaged in a coverup and he just freed a convicted felon to keep it going.
We need to keep reminding the Republicans and especially the Dems., that under the 1996 war crimes law, there is no running out the clock. There is no statute of limitations.
My question to lawyers is what is statute of limitations of the more ordinary crimes of the Republicans; such as perjury, obstruction, and the other felonies?
If commuting Scooter’s sentence is not legal then they wanted to really shove our faces in it. These people don’t even try to pretend to care about us. Is this part of the plan?
It would appear silence has its price.
Steve @ 73
They got immunity from prosecution in the MCA bill that was passed last year.
Here’s a link to the White House phonebook, so you can give them a courteous and politely worded call and share your views.
I’d anticipate that the switchboard will be quite busy tomorrow, so it’s important to have a lot of numbers so you can get through. The Directory has those numbers (some to quite obscure offices, though none so obscure as Shooter’s dank basement).
looseheadprop @ 30
Hmmm. Unfortunately, Siegelman (sp?) and that woman in Wisconsin (?) also had jury verdicts against them. Better, I think, to say the process hadn’t completed.
looseheadprop @ 49
According to the US Attorney’s Manual all “requests” for information from Congress have to be funneled through the Office of Legislative Affairs (OLA), which I doubt will be giving him a green light any time soon.
However, if SOMEONE had the brains to issue a subpeona to him……
You see he would them be compelled, as an officer of the court, to obey lawful process (”process” being a legal term for a subpeona, writ, summons or similar legal device that confers power over a witness or litigant)
It is m belief that it was for this reason that the fired USA’s demanded to be subpeona’d
I regret my poor choice of words; ‘Whistleblow’, but, LHP, you did point out my allusions to Oversight means of obtaining Fitz’s views on the matter!!! 8-)
I sent the press statement from Cheney back to his office with:
Shorter Cheney: Got Harriet’s email. Thanks for covering my ass, Scoots!
John Tully @ 50
thank you!
You know, thank goodness that the DoJ has been practically gutted. Anyone not doing their job for the GOP over there would just be spinning their wheels. What a sad and horrible day.
It’s blackmail, leading to further obstruction of justice.
Even Paris Hilton did her time!
Why shouldn’t Irve?
rwcole @ 36
Tipping point with the US Senate. th eONLY jury that really counts.
looseheadprop@86
The Senate has Joe. There are no consequences.
On Bush’s last day in office, he will pardon Libby for any and all crimes, adjudicated, pending, or otherwise under investigation.
The safest of bets.
We should compile of ID list of the thousands of those convicted of federal crimes and sentenced “excessively” and hammer the White House and Congress with it relentlessly.
Where was Bush when I got convicted?
Why is Libby more deserving than I?
Public Service?
I did my time, served my sentence, went on to be an upstanding citizen.
I became an advocate for parents of children with disabilities.
I sat down with Gov. Richardson, and talked him into reversing a decision he had already publicly announced, because we in the disabilities community felt the issue needed further study before a decision was made.
I helped the New Mexico DOH write it’s best practice documents on educating young children with Autism.
I helped school districts all over the state implement better classrooms.
I helped scores of parents advocate for the services their children needed, when the DOH and the Education Dept. were stonewalling.
I put 50,000 a year on my car (NM is a big state), and countless hours.
I never charged a dime.
I did something stupid and non-violent when I was 18.
I’m now 40.
I have a wife and three kids.
And according to the state of Florida, I still don’t qualify for clemency.
Equal under the law my ass.
IN
I think at the end of the day, Libby will get a full pardon. In the meantime, Dick, Karl and George are yucking it up.
Thanks LHP at 49. Cassie talks about wanting to “be” someone when she grows up. I wanna be you LHP!! Unfortunately I am already grown up.
Thanks again.
GordonM @ 79
I think you mean Georgia Thompson.
So are the statements I posted correct or not. He is assuming power not granted too him by the constitution.
Can he legally commute a sentence or not?
Does he have that power or only the power to grant a reprieve of pardon?
Of don’t my concerns warrant any answers to these questions?
If not I’ll just go back to lurking.
Don’t worry, Harry and Nancy will take action.
Heh.
I’m speechless, and that is saying something.
Jane and Christy,
Keep up the fight for equal justice for all Americans!
Tonight I am so depressed that I only take hope from the advocacy of FDL and the other progressive blogs.
Thanks for all you do!!
looseheadprop @ 86
Whew, Ain’t that the truth!!! And, worse yet, it’s all Political!!! 8-(
Biden (yeah, that Biden) suggests flooding the WH with our outraged calls tomorrow. Here’s some help for that:
White House Phone Numbers
Comments: 202-456-1111
Switchboard: 202-456-1414
FAX: 202-456-2461
U.S. Capitol Switchboard: 202-224-3121
Listing of U.S. Senators with phone numbers
Listing of U.S. House members
We’re hanging in there on the msnbc poll!
Do you agree with President Bush’s decision to commute former White House aide I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby’s prison sentence?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19570520/
71% Against Bush!
114461 votes at 10:30
So wait how does this work?
Is it now legal to lie to grand juries?
InfoNut @ 89
You sound like somebody that does way more good things than bad. They should think about that too.
I wrote about how it is unfair. My mom is in jail and she didn’t lie to the FBI or hurt the CIA.
George A. @ 76
They think they did..but will retroactive immunity be a stay out of prison card? It will be fought out in the courts..Who knows what will happen…but we have to keep pushing.
The American people should be able to grasp the simple concept that Libby was saved from jail so he wouldn’t talk. As in Bush is quilty as sin.
radiofreewill @ 99
Aargh, it’s slipped another 1% point!!! WTF!!!
“Forget it, Jake. It’s Chinatown.”
the aspens are turning my stomach
Not surprising, since the elite, bloviating punditocracy is nearly as guilty as Scooter in obstructing justice.
Mary McCurnin @ 74
I think it is. This is a slow-motion coup.
“
I have an editor acquaintance who has coined the phrase, `Berlin-o-meter’; flippant but also serious; as in: what time is it? In 1931 there was still debate and dissent in Germany; in 1933, after the mass arrests, that was over. What time is it regarding debate? It’s about 1931.”
http://commentisfree.guardian......und_1.html
#68: If there’s one thing Tucker knows it’s bullshit; in fact it seems to be the only thing he excells at.
barbara @ 97
Thanx so much, barbara. Thinking about getting up & using all those #s tomorrow morning is giving me a place to focus my anger…
I will try to avoid cursing and seek to compose a reasoned scream on the WH comment line tomorrow. Perhaps, ‘Please tell the president that there will be no one to commute his conviction.’ Or, ‘A poll last night has shown that a large majority of the American people believe that Scooter belongs in jail. If P