(Please welcome Salon blogger and author Glenn Greenwald who is here to discuss his book A Tragic Legacy: How a Good vs. Evil Mentality Destroyed the Bush Presidency. You can read an excerpt here -- JH)
After 9/11, I remember being quite surprised that the US government would so freely use the phrase "good and evil" when our attackers had been extreme religious fanatics. Laden as those words are with religious association, it seemed to me to be fanning the flames when a smarter approach would have been to distance ourselves from such rhetoric and try to redirect the focus to more rational ground. I did a post quite early on in which I compared speeches by George W. Bush and Osama bin Laden in which their frequent references to God and good and evil and satan were nearly indistinguishable. Both speeches could have come right out of the 13th century. (It was one of the creepiest posts I ever did, and I recall that at the time we were in the grip of such paranoia, I wondered if I would gather the attention of the authorities for writing such a thing.)
From very early on Bush used archaic religious verbal constructions like "the evil ones" and "evil-doers." Perhaps the most startling example is what he reportedly told Palestinian Prime Minister Mamhoud Abbas in 2003: "God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If you help me I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them." Yikes.
It turns out that anachronistic verbiage was much more than boneheaded rhetoric. As Glenn Greenwald convincingly lays out in devastating detail in his new book "A Tragic Legacy: How a Good vs. Evil Mentality Destroyed the Bush Presidency", this war between "good 'n evil" became the all-purpose justification for the lawless usurpation of the bedrock values of our constitution. From the extended excerpt in Salon Magazine:
Because the threat posed by The Evil Terrorists is so grave, maximizing protections against it is the paramount, overriding goal. No other value competes with that objective, nor can any other value limit our efforts to protect ourselves against The Terrorists.That is the essence of virtually every argument Bush supporters make regarding terrorism. No matter what objection is raised to the never-ending expansions of executive power, no matter what competing values are touted (due process, the rule of law, the principles our country embodies, how we are perceived around the world), the response will always be that The Terrorists are waging war against us and our overarching priority -- one that overrides all others -- is to protect ourselves, to triumph over Evil. By definition, then, there can never be any good reason to oppose vesting powers in the government to protect us from The Terrorists because that goal outweighs all others.
But our entire system of government, from its inception, has been based upon a very different calculus -- that is, that many things matter besides merely protecting ourselves against threats, and consequently, we are willing to accept risks, even potentially fatal ones, in order to secure those other values. From its founding, America has rejected the worldview of prioritizing physical safety above all else, as such a mentality leads to an impoverished and empty civic life. The premise of America is and always has been that imposing limitations on government power is necessary to secure liberty and avoid tyranny even if it means accepting an increased risk of death as a result. That is the foundational American value.
It is this courageous demand for core liberties even if such liberties provide less than maximum protection from physical risks that has made America bold, brave, and free. Societies driven exclusively or primarily by a fear of avoiding Evil, minimizing risks, and seeking above all else that our government "protects" us are not free. That is a path that inevitably leads to authoritarianism -- an increasingly strong and empowered leader in whom the citizens vest ever-increasing faith and power in exchange for promises of safety. That is most assuredly not the historical ethos of the United States.
No, it is not. Greenwald has written a book that finally gets to the meat of the matter and addresses the underlying error that has led inexorably to all the errors that followed. The Bush administration took a simplistic, Manichean, "good vs evil" approach to the threat of Islamic terrorism, and in that one act handed them a victory. One of the great advances of our civilization is the recognition that the line between good and evil is not between one group and another group; the line between good and evil lies inside every human being. All it took was a handful of religious fanatics with a willingness to commit suicide to make an awful lot of Americans forget that.
All of you know that Glenn is a writer of rare insight who cuts through the spin and the rhetoric to see the underlying motives and impulses that drive this administration to consistently seek to weaken, if not destroy, the fundamental tenets of our constitution. There is nobody writing today who can as forcefully explain, with both lawyerly precision and personal passion, just how important it is that Americans take these issues seriously if we want to preserve our democracy. The greatest threat to our way of life comes not from the terrorists but from our own complacency in allowing a creeping authoritarianism to change our definition of what it is to be a free people.
Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Glenn Greenwald to the FDL Book Salon ...
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Glenn!
WHOO-HOOOO!!
Digby and Glenn!
How are you guys?
Hi everyone - Thanks for the great introduction, Digby. And thanks to Jane and FDL for hosting.
Welcome back, Glenn — and thanks so much for writing this book. It’s a much needed one at this point in our history. A huge thanks to Digby as well for such a great intro.
(On hold with Sam Seder at the moment, but I’ll be hitting the refresh button…and wanted to put in my “read this” to everyone. It’s a great read!)
Glenn, just wanted to thank you for your daily contributions. I’ve ordered your book and am anxiously awaiting its arrival.
Welcome Glenn and Digby (great speech BTW). Hi Trex.
Does downstairs know you’re here?
Welcome back Glenn (great post today on the everyone is al Qaeda theme) — and thanks to digby for the fine introduction — and the great speech at TBA!
Glenn, what kind of feedback are you seeing from your “They’re All Al Quaeda Now” post? Does it ever alarm you how much all the language manipulation is like “Brave New World”?
We have always been at war with Eastasia!
Glenn - I spend most of my time at some distance from the US, and people here wonder how we elected such an idiot (ignoring that they’ve re-elected racist conservative John Howard twice). Do you think we’ve learned a lesson for 2008?
Glenn — lots of focus lately on our imperial Vice President. Any thoughts on the relationship betwen Cheney’s view of the world and Bush’s — and how the two reinforce each other?
Hi, Folks.
I’m sorry; I wish I had a question to get the conversation rolling, but unfortunately, I just want to add to the “you’re doing great work, Glenn” chorus.
You’re doing great work, Glenn. Keep it up.
You too, Digby.
-Adam
Glenn,
So good to be here.
Naturally I’m curious about what you make of the article about Dick Cheney in the Washington Post and how if applies to your thesis.
Personally, I think you have hit the nail on the head. Not only does Cheney see this “war” as a simple matter of good ‘n evil, he very cynically manipulated his charge with the cheap Cecil B DeMille style religious rhetoric that made him believe he was answering directly to God.
Wouldn’t you love to have heard those conversations as Dick convinced him that God wanted him to torture people? Aye, yay, yay…
You don’t read Glenn often enough if you wonder about his alarm regarding media/govt language manipulation.
TRex - That post has received a lot of attention, principally because, I think, the propaganda shift is so audacious and transparent. And it’s one thing for the administration to try such a gambit, but it’s another entirely for the media to swallow it so quickly and completely.
On one level, it’s almost signifies an entirely new level of media mindlessness, which I honestly didn’t think was possible.
Glenn, could you comment on the recent revelations that not only has the VP’s office not complied with security reporting (and tried to kill the agency itself) but we now know the WH has also refused to comply. Is there any way to resolve the legal issues here, or can the executive branch continue to just flout the law as they will?
Re: Cheney - I think the reason Cheney has been able to exert as much power as he has is because he understands how Bush thinks and works. He knows how to package the foreign policy/warmaking agenda to appeal to Bush’s messianic mission and evangelical calling. The domestic plan - the Omnipotent White House - is easier still, since Bush inherently believes he can act without limits or restraints of any kind.
But there is no question that they all adopted the premise long ago that they were on the side of Good and thus no limits were warranted or justifiable, and that anyone who attempted to impose limits of any kind - whether foreign or domestic - was either an unwitting or deliberate ally of Evil. That’s their animating view.
Welcome back, Glenn. You’re our first returnee. You’ve been on fire at Salon recently — so happy to see you back here and back in print again.
Labeling those the U.S. is fighting “Al Qaida,” seems like a way of re-identifying matters as a war than an occupation. Battling by brand name makes it so much easier, doesn’t it? When the complexity of the reality is admitted, it’s far more obvious that the U.S. occupation forces are not succeeding either at protecting the Iraqi citizenry nor establishing an effective police/national guard force (thanks again, Paul Bremer). Also, it’s easier (I believe) to bury stories about torture (http://washingtonbureau.typepad.com/baghdad/2007/06/shiite-fear-of-.html) and kidnappings (http://washingtonbureau.typepad.com/baghdad/2007/06/high_school_det.html)
Mike Drummond of McClatchy Newspapers noted this today: ” U.S. military has identified more than 20 enemy insurgent and militia groups in Baghdad, including the Mahdi Army, armed followers of anti-U.S. Shiite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr. Al Qaida in Iraq is “enemy No. 1,” Garver said. “But not the only enemy.”
Odd, how little attention seems to be paid to the McClatchy Baghdad bureau, which is doing such great work.
Glenn,
A fair number of people put this out in bad faith, but I think it’s an important legitimate question, and FDL is the ideal place to address it: How do we taking on this Manichean worldview, avoid falling into a similar mindset ourselves, particularly since those we are opposing have so little to redeem them? How do we keep our balance, remain cognizant of our own capacity to do evil, and yet put the full weight of our effort into saving our country?
Unfortunately, my view is that until Congress decides to truly assert its power and a far more direct and public way there will be no change to the flagrant lawlessness and continual absurdities coming from the WH. The media will be of marginal (at best) independant help.
Glenn Greenwald @ 14
Well, you know, the people in place right now like Russert and Matthews don’t want to lose their place on the Cheneys’ Christmas party invitation list, so they do whatever is asked of them. When I watch the TV news, I’m flabbergasted at how disconnected they are.
But of course, if they were telling the truth, then there’d be no need for us.
Justed wanted to take this opportunity to say hello to Glenn and to thank you for all you are doing. Your incisive analysis of the steady misinformation stream is a daily must read in my home.
what do you think about cheney declaring himself a planet of his own, not bound by laws affecting … anyone?
has he really gone insane at last?
Joel - It actually becomes difficult to comment story-by-story on the administration’s lawlessness. Treating Cheney’s “executive branch” theory as though it’s a real legal theory that requires refutation seems worthless.
It’s well-established now that their principal belief is that they act without limits. They have White House lawyers (led by David Addington) who then create theories to allow that to happen. Those thories are not real beliefs, just tools to justify a complete disregard of any limits on their conduct.
Glenn - thanks for taking the time this afternoon, and I’m looking forward to reading your book. Questions:
1) What does the message need to sound like from Progressive politicians to counter the good/evil framework?
2) With the various neocon proponents continuing to publicly advocate the most dangerous of ideas (great post on Podhoretz this week, by the way), what do you think of the way the Right is being sold on Fred Thompson as a “real Conservative” while not bothering to question his fellowship with AEI and association with Bill Kristol’s Weekly Standard? Is this an insignificant connection?
glenn — first off, you are awesome
question: do you believe this is true, or just marketing to the base: “Bush’s messianic mission and evangelical calling” /// it’s not clear to me that bush believes in anything more than lunch at noon and dinner at 5
thnx for all you do …
Glenn, does the Bush presidency incompetence in areas such as Katrina follow from your arguments in this book or are they another kettle of fish so to speak?
Glenn Greenwald @ 14
I don’t think it was a coincidence that most of the NYT articles you cited today were
transcribedwritten by Michael Gordon. It was Gordon who told us a few days ago that Odierno had come up with the new military technique of guarding the back door while you break in the front - as though no one had every thought of it before — and then yesterday’s article, written by a different correspondent, said, “whoops, look like they already slipped out the back door.” A compliant media makes it a lot easier for Bush/Cheney to sell their delusions.Glenn,
Re: Shift to “al-Qaeda” is the Enemy in Iraq…
Is it media mindlessness or willing complicity?
We’ve seen so many instances of Big Media cooperation with the Propaganda Ministries of both the White House and the Pentagon, for pretty much the entire Bush regime. The shift to the “al-Qaeda in Iraq” enemy designation — uncritically accepted by all — fits right in to the pre-existing scheme.
The question I have now is whether the People are buying it.
wrt @ 26
Don’t forget daily bike rides and bedtime at 9:30 sharp. He really is seven years old.
Re: Media mindlessness
Isn’t that more likely media (reporters) as obedient workers to corporate goals?
The reporting doesn’t strike me as mindless so much as it does deliberate propagandizing and intentional diversion of the public’s attention.
Your thoughts?
hmm. I guess I have no questions about Cheney’s ability to influence Bush–I don’t think he really tries. not to get all consp. theory, but more and more, it seems apparent that Cheney’s the CEO of the current corporate presidency, and Bush is simply the biggest Useful Idiot of all time. except he’s no longer of any use…”aw shucks, wanna have a beer with me?” doesn’t play too well any more.
Paul - I really disagree with those who claim that Americans are not susceptible to reasoned argument, that emotional appeals outweight rational discourse.
One can make rational arguments with passion and conviction and which have an emotional component, yet are still grounded in reasoned analysis.
Both the 2006 elections and the remarkable collapsed polling numbers for Bush — unparalelled in modern history in terms of duration and intensity — demonstrate that Americans on their own have dispensed with these Manichean cartoons. They see that they have brought the country into jeopardy and disrepute.
I think the country wants to have a substitute that makes good common sense and is convincing. There is no need to simply replicate the Good/Evil framework in order to refute it. People know instinctively that the world is complex, that few things are pure Good or pure Evil, and that reality prevents us from making decisions based upon those sorts of manipulative appeals.
Che Pasa @ 29
Unfortunately, I think they are buying it. Many people I talk to just dont get it.
Welcome Glenn.
First I must say that your How Would a Patriot Act is 128 pages of pure gold. It is brilliantly clear and meaningful. It belongs in everyone’s library.
I’m sorry to say that the local Barnes and Noble store didn’t have your book, so I was only able to read the portions here or elsewhere on the Net. It should be in my hands this week.
I wanted to say that your thesis is something I’ve researched for several decades. In researching books dealing with a nuclear exchange (Soviet Union v United States) in the early 60s I ran across the works of the British historian Norman Cohn and his book, The Pursuit o fje Millennium: Revolutionary Millenarians and Mystical Anarchists of the Middle Ages.
One of Cohn’s overarching theories is that eventually, millenarians lead to a kind of fascism, that a “cult of good and evil” results in sectarian violence which in turn lead to gross large scale massacres, and the eventual attempt to murder all of Jewry and gypsies.
There seems to be a wide swath of that here in the United States. You can see evidence of that in these “end of days” novels which populate the best seller lists.
What I’m uncertain of his how deep this belief runs and I’d like your opinion.
Welcome, Glenn and Digby. Read you both every day. Glenn, you used to write more about the legal aspects of our constitutional crisis. Recently, you have become a media critic–and a d**n good one! Why the shifting emphasis?
thereisnorule6 –
One thing that is so notable is that - other than tax cuts — domestic issues have been virtually absent over the last six years, pushed almost entirely to the background. That’s because any issues which require actual governance as opposed to glorious evangelical triumph bores Bush and Cheney, and I think Katrina is explained as much by that as anything else - trying to prevent people from drowning and starving in New Orleans could not have been any less important to them.
Glenn Greenwald @ 34
Glenn, I hope that you are right, but how do we know that people are not simply tired of the continual fear mongering and impatient with the war? I’m not yet convinced that the general public has a deeper conviction.
Responding to Glenn at #15, I think it’s an extreme version of American exceptionalism, which is a concept that was bound to get us in trouble at some point.
I’m sure you have this quote in the book, but when I heard it in Bush’s first (very shaky) prime time press conference after 9/11, it was the first time I actually got frightened for the future of the country:
You know, I’m asked all the time — I’ll ask myself a question. (Laughter.) How do I respond to — it’s an old trick — (laughter) — how do I respond when I see that in some Islamic countries there is vitriolic hatred for America? I’ll tell you how I respond: I’m amazed. I’m amazed that there is such misunderstanding of what our country is about, that people would hate us. I am, I am — like most Americans, I just can’t believe it. Because I know how good we are, and we’ve got to do a better job of making our case.
In order to manage a crisis one must remain above the fray. But Cheney/Bush wasn’t man enough to do that. He had to get down to their level to duke it out, both verbally (name calling) and physically (a war of choice). Maybe it’s the Texas mentality. We desperately need adult leadership again.
Thanks, Glen, for yet another view into this failed presidency.
I like this post.
glenn –
you are so 100% right on identifying the issues
how can we create the solutions
Grayslady
It’s a good question. Part of it is just interest. There are only so many times I can argue that the Bush administration has embraced tyrannical theories and does not believe in the rule of law or our defining American values — I wrote a book about it, blogged about it every day for almost 2 years, etc.
But more substantively, I realized when writing about the NSA scandal that it doesn’t matter how compelling your arguments are or how much evidence you amass. If a corrupt, stupid, manipulated and vapid press continues to be the guardians of our political discourse, few things matter. Finding a way to change that - shaming them into changing and/or creating alternatives to communicate ideas — is a pre-requisite for everything else.
Glenn Greenwald @ 24
With the latest round of attention these are getting, it might be worthwhile to re-examine how this all got started with Bush v. Gore. I reviewed a slew of books about it and the other legal cases involved in the election–mostly for Publishers Weekly, before 9/11 came along and took everyone’s attention away.
Before then, however, I did not find one legal authority arguing for the majority decision. Posner argued for the result, but he would not argue for the decision itself. John Yoo–who contributed a chapter to a book I reviewed–would not even bother to go as far as Posner. He just breezed on by the decision itself, effectively saying, “Why bother? It’s done.”
It seemed transparent that the majority simply put something together with the appearance of legal reasoning–much like everything we’ve seen since.
Any thoughts on this? Any thoughts on re-examining it sometime in the near future?
The general public is never consulted. Just the other day some “expert” announced that “American are different” when it comes to Health Care and “don’t want the government involved.”
There is of course no basis for such a statement.
If a corrupt, stupid, manipulated and vapid press continues to be the guardians of our political discourse, few things matter. Finding a way to change that - shaming them into changing and/or creating alternatives to communicate ideas — is a pre-requisite for everything else.
… thank you for saying this so simply and clearly
… it is what fdl and tpm more than anyone bring to the table: reporting and opinion that make the case for truth and justice
I don’t have a question, but I want to thank you both for the great work you’re doing. I read Glenn every day (the only thing I read at Salon, btw, except for Tom Tomorrow) and I’ve been reading Digby since she was posting at Atrios’ site. Nothing points out the criminally-negligent state of our “punditocracy” better than comparing any random selection of your writings to any of the dreck churned out by morons like Broder, Cohen, Joke Line, etc. etc. etc. Keep it up, kids!
Glenn,
how did someone like Tony Blair get sucked into this? He seems much too reasonable.
Wow, an awesome assemblage here at the Lake! Many of the Legends here on the thread! Tis a honor to attend!!! P.S. Digby that was an inspirational speech!!! 8-)
I just want to say hi. I’m working through the book now, it’s a very interesting read.
The general public is never consulted. Just the other day some “expert” announced that “American are different” when it comes to Health Care and “don’t want the government involved.”
There is of course no basis for such a statement.
… and cleaner cars and denser communities and less pesticides in the food and better public schools …
Digby -
A lot of use friends and family members who aren’t super politcally attentive as bellweathers. I know you do, and so do I.
One of the most common questions people have is to really wonder why anyone would hate Americans enough to want to attack us and kill us. What they know about America is what they do in their own lives - work, raise their kids, shop, not hurt anyone, etc. So they can’t understand why anyone would find that threatening or why it would provoke hatred.
And if it’s explained what we are actually doing in the world, the countries we are occupying and bombing and interfering in and controlling - and how they would react if their country were occupied and bombed by one country that is the most militarized and powerful in the world — it’s as though that is new information to them. Those things are really done without most people thinking about it very much.
So “American exceptionalism” — in its most dangerous form — is really based on a complete lack of information and knowledge. It comes from the discrepancy between how Americans think about what we do/are and what, in reality, we do/are. I think that discrepency can be bridged as long as it doesn’t come from a place of anti-exceptionalism (i.e, that America itself is the embodiment of all Evil and everyone else in the world its sanctified victims).
Glenn. Impressed with your work, as well as your insights into the workings of this horrible presidency. Had Gore and the Dems shown some spine back in 2000, I do think the world would look a lot different. I, too, was uneasy when I first heard Bush use the term evil doers. It reminded me of listening to one of those old-time revival misnisters my mother would take me to hear when I was a boy. When this country is lied into a war to the strains of Onward Christian Soldiers, you just know it is going to turn out badly. But my question is, who among the Dems running for president, has the personality, the experience, and the political juice to offer the world an apology for our behaviour, and a promise to do better? So far, I’m really not too thrilled with any of them.
The old “some people say” gambit. How does one push back against it, other than demanding support for the assertion?
Glenn,
Addington’s name has been in the press this week in connection with the latest Cheney v. Constitution story. Do you have any insight on his role at the WH, how he operates, what he believes, etc?
thanks!
thereisnorule6 @ 49
Good question. The only Brit I know is quite thoughtful and DETESTS Blair. Maybe we’re deceived by the seeming intellect implied by his accent.
OK, here’s a question: Digby, when’s your book coming out???
Glenn, I’ve been reading the book. It arrived just this week, and it’s terribly clear and well written.
How is the process of getting establishment media reviews going this time around?
as long as the corrupt etc. press remains corporate, they won’t change, and the news cycle will stay the same. sure, lovely article in the WaPo today, but Paris Hilton’s on Larry King (or some such other nonsense) and we all KNOW which story will dominate corporate media. the end result is that the truth is being spoken, but without repetition and increased volume, who the f*** cares?
wrt 26 — I think that’s an excellent question. Dick Cheney — planet or asteroid?
Glenn,
Do you have a mindset reading stories to look at things critically, or in a particular way? I am curious as to how you digest the news looking for disinformation, and nuggests of truth in the midst of it. How do you process the media?
jane hamsher @ 60
black hole
and I’ve been reading Digby since she was posting at Atrios’ site
As a side note, I just want to say how happy I am to be liberated from the obligation to construct my sentences about Digby’s post while vigilantly avoiding pronouns (”Digby’s post today, in which Digby argues, that X, is notable for the evidence Digby cites”).
Glenn at 63 — You and me, both. :)
Christy Hardin Smith @ 65
Hi Christy. Love your articles this week. Joe
Paul - I really disagree with those who claim that Americans are not susceptible to reasoned argument, that emotional appeals outweight rational discourse.
I agree that rational discourse is still, but with the Russertesque he said/she said of modern political journalism, it’s difficult to make a rational argument.
Just the way the MSM have adopted the Iraq=al Qaeda thing is an example of how difficult it is to have a fact-based political debate in this country.
It’s the rational side that has to catapult the filter, to coin a phrase. I think that’s what Gore is doing.
Pach - As you probably know, no mainstream newspaper or magazine reviewed How Would a Patriot Act, despite its being on the NYT list, etc.
We’ll see if it’s different this time around. There is definitely still an entrenched perception among newspapers and magazines that “bloggers” are intrinsically unserious.
But at this point, I actually think it’s more important to develop our own systems for disseminating information and ideas than it is trying to reform those older and more established ones.
So. Is it a ‘religious confrontation’?
glenn - i look forward to reading your book, and i hope we will have another chance to discuss it with you after it’s release.
you write:
but isn’t it worse than that? Joseph Margulies, in discussing the al-Marri ruling, makes a good argument that the path of trading our freedoms for safety make us both less free and less safe. his conclusion:
this seems right to me… giving up our freedoms doesn’t in the end make us safe. the Good vs Evil mindset that you show leads to authoritarianism is not only unamerican - it is stupid.
Any thoughts on the news about Gitmo possibly shutting down? I’m not sure I get the media take on this. I’d think Cheney would support closing Gitmo in favor of distributing the detainees to bases worldwide. Then it would be far more secretive and he could start snatching bad americans off the streets with impugnity (if he’s not already).
Glenn the book is sensational. I really love and appreciate your work.
Glenn Greenwald @ 33
Let me refine my question. Granted the American people have soured on Bush. But that doesn’t ensure a Democratic victory in 2008, nor would such a victory ensure that we would be done with a Manichean foreign policy that continues to do bin Laden’s work for him–particularly with the degree to which the media has internalized rightwing values. This is where I see the most difficult struggle ahead of us. We do not have the luxury of people “eventually” getting things rights. We have a finite time period before things are dramatically worse. And this, I believe, requires an intensity of political confrontation that inherently brings out Manichean tendencies that all of us have to struggle against.
I know plenty of other people will be asking questions here who don’t normally comment on your blog, and I don’t want to hog bandwidth here. But I’d appreciate it if you gave this some thought, as I think that a post on it at some point could have a very beneficial effect for the left blogosphere as a whole.
Glenn Greenwald @ 63
Dammit that was a pain in the ass, wasn’t it?
Thanks so much Glenn for appearing with us today. And to Digby - Brava!
Glenn, if you were to pick a weakness in their media strategy, their attitudes towards oversight, or their contempt for the Constitution, where would you suggest that a suddenly steeled Democratic Congress (if such a thing could happen) begin? Where first do they stick the pry bar?
Jane Hamsher @ 73
Yes, it was.
It was so liberating to juxtapose Digby with. . . Shakira.
dave @ 57
Ahem.
Twiddling thumbs here, not saying anything….
Glenn,
I’m thrilled to have finally released all people who knew me personally from gender pronoun purgatory.
But I still maintain that it was good for all of you to have to stop and think about such a basic aspect of sentence construction. It’s like literary spinach — builds writing muscle. ;)
Glenn Greenwald @ 67
YES!
Jane @ 73 –I’ll bet it wasn’t much fun for Digby, either, despite the invaluable insights into genderless commentary.
The premise of America is and always has been that imposing limitations on government power is necessary to secure liberty and avoid tyranny even if it means accepting an increased risk of death as a result. That is the foundational American value.
This reminds me of the Jefferson quotes:
“I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.”
“A society that will trade a little liberty for a little order will lose both and deserve neither.”
Seems to me that far too many people are willing to make that trade.
How do we get back to where Jefferson wanted us to be?
Selise -
I agree. I wrote some about that in the book:
On top of that, our attempt to dominate the Middle East is imperial at its core. There is just no denying that. And imperial overstretch makes a nation far less safe, as does acting in a way to make the world form a confederacy against us. We’re doing all of that.
Jane Hamsher @ 76
You don’t look good in coy…
Glenn, do you think that the WaPo article will stir enough concern and conversation that Dennis Kucinich’s impeachment resolution will gain ground?
Ooo! Jane twiddling thumbs and not saying anything speaks *volumes*! :)
Glenn Greenwald @ 67
I get particularly worked up about the ghettoization of blog writings by the Em Ess Em, but then I remember that their resistance and refusal to acknowledge the zeitgeist is just further fuel for our fire.
It reminds me of what my grandmother used to say, “The hotter it gets, the harder it rains.”
Glenn Greenwald @ 67
With that in mind, if you haven’t boughth Glenn’s book yet, please consider doing so now — we’re trying to push sales numbers up and get it on the best seller list. It’s a drop in the “support your local blogger” bucket.
Digby is going to be the resident liberal on The View, perhaps?
Question for Gleen:
Have you, by any chance, had the opportunity to read Lou Dubose & Jake Bernstein’s book, ‘Vice: Dick Cheney & the Hijacking of the American Presidency.’
(I wouldn’t mind seeing them here if they’re willing to stop by & discuss their insights into Mr. Cheney……./HEAVY HINTING)*
If God really told President Bush to strike at Al Queida and Saddam then why aren’t we winning? Elijah in the bible challenged the 450 prophets of Baal to a contest and when their God failed to light the sacrfical fire but Elijah’s God did then the people killed the false prophets. Bush as a fundementalist christian should know that by claiming to speak for God when he was obviously not speaking for him then if we were a christian nation well.
Digby @ 77
Had me fooled, I thought you were an unusual him.
Is there anything worth saying regarding the ground-level racism that’s been one of the foundation-stones of the US’ post-9/11 activity, and in the specific case of “they’re all al-quaeda”?
selise @ 69
I think that’s a good point. The “dichotomy” between liberty and security is a false one. I would define my security by the range of things I can do without fear. In other words, the point of security is to increase freedom, specifically by removing negative impediments to it. If we have less liberty then our efforts at security have failed.
Glenn Greenwald @ 52
A lot of use friends and family members who aren’t super politcally attentive as bellweathers. I know you do, and so do I.
One of the most common questions people have is to really wonder why anyone would hate Americans enough to want to attack us and kill us. What they know about America is what they do in their own lives - work, raise their kids, shop, not hurt anyone, etc. So they can’t understand why anyone would find that threatening or why it would provoke hatred.
And if it’s explained what we are actually doing in the world, the countries we are occupying and bombing and interfering in and controlling - and how they would react if their country were occupied and bombed by one country that is the most militarized and powerful in the world — it’s as though that is new information to them. Those things are really done without most people thinking about it very much.
So “American exceptionalism” — in its most dangerous form — is really based on a complete lack of information and knowledge. It comes from the discrepancy between how Americans think about what we do/are and what, in reality, we do/are. I think that discrepency can be bridged as long as it doesn’t come from a place of anti-exceptionalism (i.e, that America itself is the embodiment of all Evil and everyone else in the world its sanctified victims).
I think a lot of that can be directly attributed to many Americans’ failure to travel abroad! I’ve heard that many Americans have never ventured outside of their own State! I think travel is one of life’s best learning opportunities available!
Glenn — are you reconciled to the prospect that we simply have to wait out the Bush/Cheney regime until 2009 and hope for the best from whoever follows — or do you see a plausible scenario in which we can hold them accountable before then and have some type of public cathartic event — a public rejection of their world view?
Glenn Greenwald @ 43
But more substantively, I realized when writing about the NSA scandal that it doesn’t matter how compelling your arguments are or how much evidence you amass. If a corrupt, stupid, manipulated and vapid press continues to be the guardians of our political discourse, few things matter. Finding a way to change that - shaming them into changing and/or creating alternatives to communicate ideas — is a pre-requisite for everything else.
Getting a progressive super-majority into the houses in 08 is another important requisite for passing meaningful legislation and, hopefully, obtaining media fairness.
Thanks for all your work Glenn!
Digby @ 77
Somehow, it seemed to be common knowledge at Eschaton. I’d heard about it some time ago, anyway, and it’s not like I’m part of the “Eschaton Elite”…