[The above clip is an excerpted bit from the Frontline examination of "The Torture Question." There are graphic images from photos taken at Abu Ghraib and elsewhere, as well as some disturbing information presented in this documentary. I wanted to warn everyone upfront before you clicked on the video. More information on the documentary can be found here at the Frontline website. -- CHS]
For the Bush Administration, first and foremost, it has been consistently about maintaining a public level of plausible deniability for each and every scandal that has arisen during their tenure in office. Over and over, the phrase we have heard is that an official could not look into particular charges because of "an ongoing criminal investigation."
What that has meant, for close to seven years now, is that when a substantial problem arises in any executive agency, that problem is left to fester -- for days, months, even years -- while members of the Bush Administration sit back and bide their time, and allow the problem to continue unabated under the cloak of plausible deniability -- unless and until someone outside the Administration begins to ask the tough questions that need to be asked.
Seymour Hersh has a blistering example of that directly from former Gen. Antonio Taguba that everyone should read in full. But I want to warn you up front, it is infuriating and utterly disgusting. All the more so because the upper level officers and civilian leaders at the Pentagon have yet to be held to account for any of the their involvement in this mess, while enlisted soldiers who were likely following their illegal orders bide their time in military prisons. I am beyond furious, all over again, after reading all of this.
Hersh was interviewed yesterday on CNN regarding the article, and Crooks and Liars has a clip of the interview. Watch it for an overview of Hersh's reporting, but do go and read the entire New Yorker article. Every person in this nation ought to do so -- it is that appalling.
From Hersh's piece in the New Yorker:
...“Here . . . comes . . . that famous General Taguba—of the Taguba report!” Rumsfeld declared, in a mocking voice. The meeting was attended by Paul Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld’s deputy; Stephen Cambone, the Under-Secretary of Defense for Intelligence; General Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (J.C.S.); and General Peter Schoomaker, the Army chief of staff, along with Craddock and other officials. Taguba, describing the moment nearly three years later, said, sadly, “I thought they wanted to know. I assumed they wanted to know. I was ignorant of the setting.”In the meeting, the officials professed ignorance about Abu Ghraib. “Could you tell us what happened?” Wolfowitz asked. Someone else asked, “Is it abuse or torture?” At that point, Taguba recalled, “I described a naked detainee lying on the wet floor, handcuffed, with an interrogator shoving things up his rectum, and said, ‘That’s not abuse. That’s torture.’ There was quiet.”Rumsfeld was particularly concerned about how the classified report had become public. “General,” he asked, “who do you think leaked the report?” Taguba responded that perhaps a senior military leader who knew about the investigation had done so. “It was just my speculation,” he recalled. “Rumsfeld didn’t say anything.” (I did not meet Taguba until mid-2006 and obtained his report elsewhere.) Rumsfeld also complained about not being given the information he needed. “Here I am,” Taguba recalled Rumsfeld saying, “just a Secretary of Defense, and we have not seen a copy of your report. I have not seen the photographs, and I have to testify to Congress tomorrow and talk about this.” As Rumsfeld spoke, Taguba said, “He’s looking at me. It was a statement.”
At best, Taguba said, “Rumsfeld was in denial.” Taguba had submitted more than a dozen copies of his report through several channels at the Pentagon and to the Central Command headquarters, in Tampa, Florida, which ran the war in Iraq. By the time he walked into Rumsfeld’s conference room, he had spent weeks briefing senior military leaders on the report, but he received no indication that any of them, with the exception of General Schoomaker, had actually read it. (Schoomaker later sent Taguba a note praising his honesty and leadership.) When Taguba urged one lieutenant general to look at the photographs, he rebuffed him, saying, “I don’t want to get involved by looking, because what do you do with that information, once you know what they show?”
Taguba also knew that senior officials in Rumsfeld’s office and elsewhere in the Pentagon had been given a graphic account of the pictures from Abu Ghraib, and told of their potential strategic significance, within days of the first complaint. On January 13, 2004, a military policeman named Joseph Darby gave the Army’s Criminal Investigation Division (C.I.D.) a CD full of images of abuse. Two days later, General Craddock and Vice-Admiral Timothy Keating, the director of the Joint Staff of the J.C.S., were e-mailed a summary of the abuses depicted on the CD. It said that approximately ten soldiers were shown, involved in acts that included:
Having male detainees pose nude while female guards pointed at their genitals; having female detainees exposing themselves to the guards; having detainees perform indecent acts with each other; and guards physically assaulting detainees by beating and dragging them with choker chains.Taguba said, “You didn’t need to ‘see’ anything — just take the secure e-mail traffic at face value.”I learned from Taguba that the first wave of materials included descriptions of the sexual humiliation of a father with his son, who were both detainees. Several of these images, including one of an Iraqi woman detainee baring her breasts, have since surfaced; others have not. (Taguba’s report noted that photographs and videos were being held by the C.I.D. because of ongoing criminal investigations and their “extremely sensitive nature.”) Taguba said that he saw “a video of a male American soldier in uniform sodomizing a female detainee.” The video was not made public in any of the subsequent court proceedings, nor has there been any public government mention of it. Such images would have added an even more inflammatory element to the outcry over Abu Ghraib. “It’s bad enough that there were photographs of Arab men wearing women’s panties,” Taguba said.
On January 20th, the chief of staff at Central Command sent another e-mail to Admiral Keating, copied to General Craddock and Lieutenant General Ricardo Sanchez, the Army commander in Iraq. The chief of staff wrote, “Sir: update on alleged detainee abuse per our discussion. DID IT REALLY HAPPEN? Yes, currently have 4 confessions implicating perhaps 10 soldiers. DO PHOTOS EXIST? Yes. A CD with approx 100 photos and a video—CID has these in their possession.”
In subsequent testimony, General Myers, the J.C.S. chairman, acknowledged, without mentioning the e-mails, that in January information about the photographs had been given “to me and the Secretary up through the chain of command. . . . And the general nature of the photos, about nudity, some mock sexual acts and other abuse, was described.”
Nevertheless, Rumsfeld, in his appearances before the Senate and the House Armed Services Committees on May 7th, claimed to have had no idea of the extensive abuse. “It breaks our hearts that in fact someone didn’t say, ‘Wait, look, this is terrible. We need to do something,’ ” Rumsfeld told the congressmen. “I wish we had known more, sooner, and been able to tell you more sooner, but we didn’t.”
Rumsfeld told the legislators that, when stories about the Taguba report appeared, “it was not yet in the Pentagon, to my knowledge.” As for the photographs, Rumsfeld told the senators, “I say no one in the Pentagon had seen them”; at the House hearing, he said, “I didn’t see them until last night at 7:30.” Asked specifically when he had been made aware of the photographs, Rumsfeld said:
There were rumors of photographs in a criminal prosecution chain back sometime after January 13th . . . I don’t remember precisely when, but sometime in that period of January, February, March. . . . The legal part of it was proceeding along fine. What wasn’t proceeding along fine is the fact that the President didn’t know, and you didn’t know, and I didn’t know.“And, as a result, somebody just sent a secret report to the press, and there they are,” Rumsfeld said....
According to the NYTimes, Rumsfeld's public excuse for not looking at the information earlier was the following:
Lawrence Di Rita, a former top aide to Mr. Rumsfeld, said Mr. Rumsfeld had not viewed the photographs because he had been advised by lawyers that doing so “could materially affect the ongoing criminal investigation.” He said Mr. Rumsfeld finally looked at the pictures the day before his Congressional testimony, the same day he was briefed by General Taguba.
Plausible deniability. If it sounds familiar, it is because it has been the constant refrain from Bush Administration officials -- including AG Gonzales in the latest series of inquiries into Department of Justice improprieties. They are using what ought to be a solemn, ethical obligation as a shield for liability from wrongdoing, taking an obligation to not interfere with genuine fact-finding and twisting it into an excuse for not correcting an ongoing problem. This is not governing, it is CYA at the highest levels -- and they should not be allowed to continue along this tactical path.
Recall, for example, that Karl Rove's security clearance violations have still not been investigated by the internal arm in the White House charged with such duties because of "the ongoing criminal investigation." So a man who has publicly admitted to discussing highly classified information with multiple journalists continues to have high-level security...because of a claimed technicality.
And on and on and on...the entire Bush Administration has been violate the law in secret (or write in a signing statement that says you can ignore it outright), get caught, and continue on your path of misconduct under a cloack of plausible deniability writ large unless and until the public sentiment builds to a crescendo that can no longer be ignored, forcing a halt or forcing whatever conduct is being questioned to morph into another non-public end-run of the law form. (See, e.g., John Poindexter.)
But back to the Taguba situation. As the former general told Hersh, his investigation was limited to the lower ranks, and no higher:
During the next two years, Taguba assiduously avoided the press, telling his relatives not to talk about his work. Friends and family had been inundated with telephone calls and visitors, and, Taguba said, “I didn’t want them to be involved.” Taguba retired in January, 2007, after thirty-four years of active service, and finally agreed to talk to me about his investigation of Abu Ghraib and what he believed were the serious misrepresentations by officials that followed. “From what I knew, troops just don’t take it upon themselves to initiate what they did without any form of knowledge of the higher-ups,” Taguba told me. His orders were clear, however: he was to investigate only the military police at Abu Ghraib, and not those above them in the chain of command. “These M.P. troops were not that creative,” he said. “Somebody was giving them guidance, but I was legally prevented from further investigation into higher authority. I was limited to a box.”...Taguba’s assignment was limited to investigating the 800th M.P.s, but he quickly found signs of the involvement of military intelligence—both the 205th Military Intelligence Brigade, commanded by Colonel Thomas Pappas, which worked closely with the M.P.s, and what were called “other government agencies,” or O.G.A.s, a euphemism for the C.I.A. and special-operations units operating undercover in Iraq. Some of the earliest evidence involved Lieutenant Colonel Steven L. Jordan, whose name was mentioned in interviews with several M.P.s. For the first three weeks of the investigation, Jordan was nowhere to be found, despite repeated requests. When the investigators finally located him, he asked whether he needed to shave his beard before being interviewed—Taguba suspected that he had been dressing as a civilian. “When I asked him about his assignment, he says, ‘I’m a liaison officer for intelligence from Army headquarters in Iraq.’ ” But in the course of three or four interviews with Jordan, Taguba said, he began to suspect that the lieutenant colonel had been more intimately involved in the interrogation process—some of it brutal—for “high value” detainees.
“Jordan denied everything, and yet he had the authority to enter the prison’s ‘hard site’ ”—where the most important detainees were held—“carrying a carbine and an M9 pistol, which is against regulations,” Taguba said. Jordan had also led a squad of military policemen in a shoot-out inside the hard site with a detainee from Syria who had managed to obtain a gun. (A lawyer for Jordan disputed these allegations; in the shoot-out, he said, Jordan was “just another gun on the extraction team” and not the leader. He noted that Jordan was not a trained interrogator.)
Taguba said that Jordan’s “record reflected an extensive intelligence background.” He also had reason to believe that Jordan was not reporting through the chain of command. But Taguba’s narrowly focussed mission constrained the questions he could ask. “I suspected that somebody was giving them guidance, but I could not print that,” Taguba said.
“After all Jordan’s evasiveness and misleading responses, his rights were read to him,” Taguba went on. Jordan subsequently became the only officer facing trial on criminal charges in connection with Abu Ghraib and is scheduled to be court-martialled in late August. (Seven M.P.s were convicted of charges that included dereliction of duty, maltreatment, and assault; one defendant, Specialist Charles Graner, was sentenced to ten years in prison.) Last month, a military judge ruled that Jordan, who is still assigned to the Army’s Intelligence and Security Command, had not been appropriately advised of his rights during his interviews with Taguba, undermining the Army’s allegation that he lied during the Taguba inquiry. Six other charges remain, including failure to obey an order or regulation; cruelty and maltreatment; and false swearing and obstruction of justice. (His lawyer said, “The evidence clearly shows that he is innocent.”)
Taguba came to believe that Lieutenant General Sanchez, the Army commander in Iraq, and some of the generals assigned to the military headquarters in Baghdad had extensive knowledge of the abuse of prisoners in Abu Ghraib even before Joseph Darby came forward with the CD. Taguba was aware that in the fall of 2003—when much of the abuse took place—Sanchez routinely visited the prison, and witnessed at least one interrogation. According to Taguba, “Sanchez knew exactly what was going on.”
Taguba learned that in August, 2003, as the Sunni insurgency in Iraq was gaining force, the Pentagon had ordered Major General Geoffrey Miller, the commander at Guantánamo, to Iraq. His mission was to survey the prison system there and to find ways to improve the flow of intelligence. The core of Miller’s recommendations, as summarized in the Taguba report, was that the military police at Abu Ghraib should become part of the interrogation process: they should work closely with interrogators and intelligence officers in “setting the conditions for successful exploitation of the internees.”
Taguba concluded that Miller’s approach was not consistent with Army doctrine, which gave military police the overriding mission of making sure that the prisons were secure and orderly. His report cited testimony that interrogators and other intelligence personnel were encouraging the abuse of detainees. “Loosen this guy up for us,” one M.P. said he was told by a member of military intelligence. “Make sure he has a bad night.”...
And so, the accountability for the origination of all of these practices which went against the tenets of the UCMJ and our international legal obligations under the Geneva Conventions and the laws of warfare which the United States had been key in implementing and enforcing in the aftermath of the Second World War -- all of that was thrown away by the crowd surrounding Donald Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney and George Bush, and none of them were to be held to account by orders issued to General Taguba. How very convenient.
It is one thing to have suspected this or to have gotten hints of this over the past few years, but it is quite another level of furious to read Taguba's words on the page about this. The level of contempt that Rumsfeld and his top commanders showed to Congress in their outright obfuscations is appalling enough, but to know that this was certainly a deliberate strategy of plausible deniability from the get go is unsustainable and demands both oversight and accountability. Now.
In case you don't remember the disgusting mess that was Abu Ghraib, or what we have done in Afghanistan at Bagram and other places prior to it, or elsewhere in Iraq before and since, or at Guantanimo -- all, not coincidentally, having been under the command of former Lt Gen. Geoffrey Miller at one point or another, take a peek at this Frontline special "The Torture Question." (Taylor had a great summary write-up about it when it aired, and you can read it here.) I found a bit of an excerpted clip from it and posted it as the above YouTube, but the Frontline website has the entire show available for streaming online.
The full Taguba report is available here via The Agonist. And there is more on Hersh's report in The WaPo as well.
This is not who we ought to be in America. We are far, far better than this -- and we once believed that we ought to strive to be a beacon of decency and hope, rather than a glaring spotlight of what not to be. Congress must step in on this issue, as the courts have done already in a number of cases, for the Bush Administration has shown itself repeatedly to be untrustworthy stewards of the rule of law and of the tenets of decency and human rights.
The Bush Administration has violated the principles that the United States has long held in sacred trust along with other civilized nations as the standards to which we all ought to strive. From the utter disregard for the long-held principle of habeas corpus to the deliberate blurring of the line between United States citizen and enemy combatant to using the NSA for domestic spying without getting prior FISA court approval...the list continues unabated on the depths to which the Bush Administration will sink to avoid the legal course of action and do as it pleases, whether or not such end-runs of the law are either necessary and/or useful in a long-term policy and reputation context for our country.
It is past time that they were called on this, publicly, loudly, and repeatedly. We are better than this. Our policies should be driven by knowledge and long-term strategy and not short-term fear. And lawbreakers -- all of them, no matter how low or how high their influence may reach, should be held to account for their actions. All of them.
Congress must hold them all to account. There must be cleansing sunshine, oversight and accountability on this issue if America is ever to regain any measure of trust with the rest of the civilized nations of the world.
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Zed!!
As close to zed as I’ll ever get.
It’s a bit long, gang — apologies — but it needed to be said this morning. Just when you think things can’t get more appalling…
Thanks, Christy!
Would anyone be surprised if we ultimately learn that Bush ordered the torture?
EPU’d but I wanted to make sure folks got a chance to see this. Sorry Christy.Get ready to for claims of the Surges success The short of it is, it looks like the rate of casualties in Iraq is headed down. Big indicator of success? NOT. Indicator of Summer? Yes.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 3
No Apologies necessary. It says what is needed to be said.
No need to apologize for the length. I think most folks who come here do so for the quality of the content and discussion. And, yes, it did need to be said and we need to say it more often and more loudly.
‘mornin christy
we’ve been discussin this downstairs;
Prairie Sunshine @ 111
we need to edit the most powerfull images and the most daming facts, most people won’t sit through this, we need to do a fast furious edit…here’s the dialogue I was having downstairs
perris @ 113
I said this last night and I’ll say it again:
We shouldn’t let the images of Abu Ghraib be hidden; not from those who want this war, not from those who started this war.
Fix Fox Newsers in front of the screen. Show them what they want done in their name. Make them see what is now being done in their name, IN OUR NAME.
Stop making excuses for why the Democrats are doing this or doing that. Don’t give them any chance to equivocate on why they won’t just end this illegal war.
They have inflicted permanent damage on this country making it much less for our kids and grandkids than what the promise was before the Bush family got hold of it.
Wake up…they are planning an event for just before the election next year so that Bushie can implement all the little plans that have been drafted recently including the use of federal troops to augment local authorities, the right of the president to literally take over in the event of an emergency ANYWHERE that threatens national security.
They don’t plan on relinquishing their grip on our country and they don’t have to worry because they own the press and the talking heads and all the financial institutions and there is no militia to stop them. We are literally f…ed.
Flash…
Dateline Washington DC
Date: September 15, 2009
The Dept of Justice and OPR office has
finally released their report on Gonzo
Findings: Gonzo did lie to Congress
Gonzo did attempt to sway Monica’s testimony
Gonzo did obstruct justice…
Reached for comment, Alberto Gonzales now
President of Fredo & Associates, a Texas
stonewalling company…. said “I broke
no laws and spent my final days speeding
to the finish line… history will judge
me as a hero.”
Great post, Christy. I have been reading Hersh’s New Yorker article in pieces. I keep having to just get up and walk away from it, or else I’ll start screaming, “BASTARDS! BASTARDS! BASTARDS!” and pounding my fist on the table.
‘Morning Christy, ‘morning everyone
I feel sick and don’t understand why mainstream media doesn’t care. And I don’t understand why mainstream media doesn’t understand the affect this report and the truth behind it has on our democracy, our credibility and yes, our power in the world.
It’s as if Bush and his gang bit the feet off our country and wonders why it won’t run.
must be emboldened for proper effect and sent around the internetBay State Librul @ 12
Christy Hardin Smith @ 3
Not too long, Christy! Just right. Sy Hersh rocked me back on my heels yesterday. It could not be clearer. Rumsfeld LIED to Congress.
As I said in the last thread just as this was karma going up *props to Christy*: They parsed the truth to cover a big lie.
Rumsfeld and Bush and the civilian leadership didn’t need to see the pictures. They got vivid descriptions of what the pictures showed.
And a sidebar question from Mr. Sunshine: were these our military? Or BushCo’s private gestapo? No wonder so many military are coming back with PTSD and other mental illness.
I can see a Daily Show juxtaposition moment coming.
I am sick. This is America — the great shining beacon to the world — and Cheney and his fellow criminals have ruined its reputation. Who will be held responsible?
And so I look for hope to my dem representatives. Yes Amy Klobachar of MN, you! I will spotlight this her office. She is not doing enough or speaking out loudly enough for me.
I guess I will say thanks, Christy, for bringing to us, and to all of those lurking journalists — to whom I saw please report more on this. Don’t let this sink back into the cesspool which is our government these days. I am heartsick, physically sick, and angry as all get out.
I read Hersh’s article Saturday, and have been e-mailing it around, also printing it for non-wired friends. I sure hope Congress will get off their collective duffs and get to the bottom of this. As to Rumsfeld, he belongs before the world court, or at the very least being charged with perjury here in US.
thank you christy.
i greive what we have become, and i pray we can find a way to redeem ourselves.
katie Jensen @ 15
mainstream media WILL care if we MAKE them care…democrats have to go BALLISTIC
they have to say;
“the president KNEW fathers were forced into sodomizing their CHILDREN?
rumsfeld parents were FORCED into watching their girls get RAPED AND SODOMIZED?
these are SICK men…it’s NO wonder they lied us into war”
pepper that with prescott bush’s support for hitler and BING
impeachment will be right around the corner
this HAS GOT to be gamed
Can’t these people be prosecuted using the (Republican Congress) 1996 War Crimes Law? IIRC, as a Republican Law, it has the death penalty.
They didn’t see the “pictures.” They had the video.
I gave up on America six month’s ago.
I hope I’m dead wrong but we need a fucking
revolution… along with tons of tea
katie Jensen @ 15
CNN/Blitzer did an interview of Hersh yesterday. It’s one of Christy’s links.
egregious @ 23
ya, there is video too
you know what I cannot understand?
how could they actually take pictures and videos?
for what purpose, to take home and masterbate?…how friggin sick is this?
You know, journalists have been doing coverage on this — the problem is that editorial decisions relegate the print reporting of it to back pages. The WaPo, for instance, put the report from Amy Goldstein and Josh White — which was a decent summary of Hersh’s Taguba piece and some other reporting — on page A7. The NYTimes did something similar with it’s piece. Blitzer at least interviewed Hersh prominantly on their Sunday news magazine show, Late Edition, yesterday — the only such Sunday show to do so, mind you, but that’s where C&L got their clip.
So some coverage is there by reporters who have been trying to dig on this issue. The problem has been that no one has been willing to go on the record about a lot of this — until now, anyway. It is now up to all of us to push this forward in Congress and with the press. We have to lift up our voices, tell them we care about this and demand more action in all of our names.
selise @ 20
We can only redeem ourselves if we prosecute these criminals to the fullest extent of the law. And that includes TREASON.
And to those who think it would rock the republic; well, we need to. And we can and will survive the trial.
How else can we redeem ourselves?
Christy Hardin Smith @ 27
this is gonna be up to us…but this frontline is not gonna do the trick, it needs a serious edit…we need to show the most daming images and the most damning facts in rapid fire edits
then we all need to embed that video…I have no editing skills but if someone on this board does, this is it…this is the watershed moment
Plausible deniability my a**! Remember the old TV show Soap when the one charcter would snap his fingers and become “invisible?” This is just a variant on that theme only these lying scum suckers are snapping their fingers and pretending reality doesn’t exist and they can’t be seen as what they are.
I’m reminded in some ways of the old night watchman at the military HS I attended in the late 60s. He was your standard uber-religious type of the day, Holy-rollers as they were known. One year after the prom, he came upon a couple of cadets with their dates together and his response was “I doan wanna look, I doan wanna see! It’s a dain of iniqity!”
Rummie, Bush, et al doan wanna look or see as it would disturb their sense of themselves as upstanding citizens of the world
No matter how hallucinegenic it gets, I’m thinking I don’t want their drugs if it leads to acting as they do. May the good Dog/Goddess/Gaia/(insert name of your supreme being of choice here) give them their just desserts.
Good interview to listen to:
Inside Abu Ghraib
“In Fear Up Harsh, Tony Lagouranis talks about following orders to abuse prisoners at Abu Ghraib. And he explains why he became the first Army interrogator to publicly denounce the tactics he used.”
http://www.wnyc.org/shows/lopa.....2007/06/07
OT - i posted a summary of this week’s congressional hearings near the end of the previous thread, here.
katie Jensen @ 17
The media has been bought off. That’s probably the biggest factor. And why i skewed off from wanting to work in it years ago. I got whiff of it somehow before 9/11. I’m still not sure how i realized it, just that i didn’t like what i saw. Still don’t. All we can do is change it from here, and work to maybe get the better voices a platform. This is the new medium, and we have to work our asses off to keep it.
Christy -
How many international agencies have the authority to investigate violations of the Geneva Convention?
Thanks for getting the word out. I read Hersch’s article night before last and have been shaking my head in sadness ever since.
First Shinseki, now Taguba. This is what happens to generals who contradict the party line.
During the closing days of the retaking of the Phillipines, a small unit under the overall command of a General Yamashita committed atrocities in a village hundreds of miles away from the General, who had no communication with or operational control over them.
He was tried and executed after the war under the theory of command responsibility in trials similiar to the better publised Nuremberg Trials.
It’s time to prove this wasn’t Victors Justice. I know these enlisted men didn’t do all this crap without orders and those orders came from officers under orders themselves who were ordered to do things quite foreign to Americans.
The Army itself needs to root out this chain and destroy the people involved or risk losing their legitimacy in the eyes of the public, like they did after Vietnam and My Lai and other horror stories.
thank you christy, my coffee doesnt taste very good this morning, they make me sick to my stomach
dakine01 @ 29
Thank you for the first laugh of the day (more like 48 hrs). I loved that show!
We are better than this!!
I see a campaign slogan.
James…. ditto.
One man bears ultimate responsibility for this: George W. Bush, President of the United States.
I’m astounded and disgusted that he continues to hold that position.
Impeachment, conviction, trial at the Hague. Now.
space cowboy at 36 — You are welcome, I suppose. I’ve been having that same sick to my stomach feeling since I read Hersh’s piece this weekend. It’s taken me until this morning to calm down so that I could write something other than “Arrrrrrrgh! Those fucking lying CYA-conniving sacks of shit!” SIGH
I will match any donation to any candidate of any party up to $1000 for the candidate that first publicly mocks George W Bush and his initial response to the 9/11 attacks:
continue reading “My Pet Goat” and then going into hiding while New York was burning.
I say that because all of this tough talk that spews out of the mouths of both the W administration as well as the candidates is ridiculous - pasty white boys ain’t putting the fear of God into anybody willing to kill themselves for their own God.
chinois @ 35
This is what happens to person’s of character who stand in the way of what this administration wants, on all levels of government.
Flash, flash
Dateline: Washington DC
Date: September 16, 2009.
The Federal Court of DC has just unsealed
Sealed v Sealed… unfortunatley the names, dates, and main points have been redacted.
Also, the Senate Judiciary Committee released
Patrick Fitzgerald’s interviews with President Bush and VP Cheney taken in June of 2004. They
prove conclusively that Bush did lie to further the cover-up and
Dick Cheney did “out” Valerie Plame…
Cheney referred the matter to Tim Russert
and Bush, vacationing in his new home in
Bulgaria said “this is all political theater.”
It isn’t so much plausible deniability as much as blatant in your face lying. When they controlled congress they were safe. Now they do it because they count on the Dems aversion to a full blown constitutional crisis.
jayt @ 39
After it’s passed through the consultants, and triangulation strangulation mixer, and strained through the republicans will be mean to me filter, it’ ll be “In the context of the overall situation, it would seem to me that, perhaps certain irregularities might have occurred, and until such time that I examine all the facts, we may be able to offer a somewhat different approach.”
When articles that talk about the abuses is put on page A6 and not the front page, it’s a way to tell people that it’s not that important, no big deal.
In the same fashion as a kid who gets caught doing something bad and the parents just slap his wrists and say don’t do it again. The kid realizes that what he did wasn’t so bad or he would have gotten in more trouble.
I worked for DOD.
This shit has been going on for over forty
years.
Remember Agent Orange?
Defense covers their arse… always.
Steve Clemons has a helpful suggestion for Carl Levin-call Rumsfeld in “for a chat…under oath.”
http://www.thewashingtonnote.c.....002187.php
Stephen at 33 — You know, I’m not certain what the answer is to that. Anyone know?
I had to stop reading because I’m at work and, now, crying.
I’ll resume when I’m back home.
Justice will surface; it has to.
Thank you for pointing us to this necessary information.
Re my comment at 47_preview is my friend. If a mod would be so kind to remove the words The images should be it would make a lot more sense. Sorry about that. And thank you for your help.
Crawling back under my rock now.
Bay State Librul @ 48
But, there’s still a difference between DOD’s normal practices (break the rules in far away places, keep it hidden) and this administration (tear up the Constitution and party on its grave).
Bay State Librul @ 24
Start reading your Trotsky and Che, the people running this government did. They pulled off a coup in ‘63 and it was so nice they did it twice with the 2000 election.
And every time we’ve heard the Dems are afraid to act because they don’t want to trigger a constitutional crisis.
Well, guess what? According to the president, it’s just a goddamn piece of paper and that’s the way they are treating it, like some insignificant piece of legislation passed by a liberal congress to whom they own no allegiance.
Yes, a revolution would be nice, but there’s a whole bunch of people in this country who will side with the oppressors just because they’ve been tricked into believing that a violent revolution to take our country back is a communist conspiracy while the political hijacking that has occurred is legitimate to save us fro the terrorists and just because elements of business, government, and religious groups are involved there is no hint of conspiracy.
The democrats don’t deserve any support, they are moribund as will be proven next year.
Wikipedia: International Criminal Court
I will post something about the International Court of Justice in a subsequent comment.
Wikipedia: International Court of Justice
Christy Hardin Smith @ 51
Some serious anti-trust action would help. However that would require muzzling the blue dogs.
albert fall @ 5
Good luck proving that. The man’s not technically astute enough to use email, not articulate enough to have said those words in an understandable form out loud to anyone who might give him up.
The little titmice pair and the cardinal pair are not getting along on the birdfeeder this morning. Much chattering outside the window this morning, and not the happy sort…
We are better than this.
Indeed.
And, per selise’s helpful list of hearings, I note that Tuesday at 9:30, the Senate Armed Services committee will hold a hearing on the nomination of a new secretary of the Army, and at 2:30, the Senate Intelligence committee will have a hearing on the nomination of a new CIA General Counsel.
This article by Sy Hersh ought to be a part of the questioning of both nominees.
“Let’s talk about the rule of law, gentlemen. Let’s chat a bit about accountability. Let’s discuss the ramifications of senior Pentagon leaders sticking their heads in the sand while torture is being conducted in the name of the United States of America. Let’s discuss the relationship of ‘other governmental agencies’ to these interrogations. . .”
A General Counsel to the CIA ought to be very conversant about such matters as torture vs. interrogation, the appropriateness of adhering to international agreements (Geneva, anyone?), etc. These could be very, very interesting hearings.
Speaking of Geneva, Stephen Parrish, my fast (and somewhat tongue-in-cheek) answer to your question at 34 is that lots of folks can investigate. The more critical question is “Who in the international community can hold violators of the GC accountable and make it stick?”
Good Morning Christy.
I’m guessing that, even with your previous law background and the many posts you’ve published as a blogger, writing this piece probably was one of the most difficult tasks you’ve ever had to bear in your career.
Deep, deep thanks to you for every single word.
All of this must be brought further out into the light of day, repeated and repeated, until NO one can say they weren’t aware.
We all knew at least something about the details. We’ve all been disgusted, repulsed, offended, often livid, shaking and weeping with anger and frustration.
Many of us have tried repeatedly to force MSM and Congress to deal with the underlying ISSUES AND the blatant unequivocal FACTS of this horrific situation.
Up until now, we have been the [missing] parents from Lord of the Flies, forced to watch, but seemingly helpless to interfere.
We MUST NOT give up. We MUST NOT let members Congress give in. How DARE they turn away and ignore our collective shame as a nation?!
Monsters are in power. They are determined to remain missing in action as the rest of our nation recoils from their shame. No more!
There is a festering wound on our face that must be lanced, so we can begin to redress the wrongs done in our name, and hopefully to heal as a nation.
Anyone who is not horribly ashamed and deeply angry has not been paying attention!
ENOUGH!
NO.MORE!
IMPEACH jrsh*tergonzo. Then throw them in jail and lose the key. No pardons. No way. NO!
james @ 54
Maybe they don’t deserve support, but if you don’t support them, you are effectively supporting the GOP.
In fact, the GOP doesn’t mind at all if all politicians are seen as scum sucking rats - the more people they can chase away from voting, the better for them. Keep that in mind while you pat yourself on the back for your immeasurably superior moral stature.
There seems no limit to the perfidy and dishonesty of this crew. They all need to be hauled into US federal courts on multiple charges and then turned over to the Hague to face war crimes and crimes against humanity charges. The sooner the better. I do not have words to describe my feelings about this and the people who made it happen.
Scarecrow @ 25
People are also forgetting that The New Yorker itself is MSM, and Sy Hersh has always been in front of the lies about Iraq, Abu Ghraib, and the plans for Iran all along.
jayt @ 39
Yes! I like that. Thanks jayt. *sniffle*
egregious @ 23
Yes.
Unless we see numerous impeachments, and numerous criminal proceedings against the perpetrators of the unethical, immoral, and criminal acts of this government and its enablers, we stand before the world exposed as a nation of pathetic hypocrites content to be led by the vilest of criminals.
Sorry for the OT Christy but thought you might want a peek at this –
The LA Time this morning:
U.S. attorneys fallout seeps into courts
http://tinyurl.com/25elrd
All people are creatures of habit. Know them their deeds. The whole admin is infected with the torturer’s mind set in everything they do. Reward those who agree with promotion/raises/praise/freedom and punish those who don’t with dismissal/demotion/scorn/imprisonment.
How reliable is Mike Allen and what should we do if Bushie pardons Scooter?
http://www.rawstory.com/showar...../4517.html
Here’s a oldie but goldie from Billmon’s Whiskey Bar: the following text was illustrated by a photoshopped view of the Bush Junta in the dock at the Hague, and titled ‘Scenes we’d like to see’, now sadly no longer available from the Billmon archives.. :”Defendants in the dock at the Ango-American War Crimes Trial of 2010, held at The Hague under the jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court.
Of the 20 defendants shown here — the so-called “Republican Guard” — only one (Alan Greenspan, second row, second from right) was found not guilty, on the grounds that the destruction of the American economy and the global financial crash of 2008, while regrettable, did not constitute war crimes as defined by the Geneva Convention.
Another defendant (Ari Fleischer, front row, extreme right) received only a light sentence, as the court determined that lying to the American people was too common a crime to merit more severe punishment.
In a more controversial decision, former Secretary of State Colin Powell was spared any prison time at all, after the judges ruled that being seated between former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Richard Myers for the entire eight-month trial constituted “punishment enough.”
Former Vice President Richard Cheney (second row, extreme left), who feigned narcolepsy throughout most of the trial, was committed to the newly established United Nations Hospital for the Criminally Insane, as was former National Security Advisor and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice (next to Cheney), who insisted on being addressed as “Mrs. Bush” throughout the trial.
The remaining defendants were sentenced to life terms at the Guantanamo War Crimes Penitentiary — the same facility used to imprison the remaining leaders of the Al Qaeda terrorist organization, whose own war crimes trial began shortly after this picture was taken.” via http://www.docstrangelove.com/.....ive-years/
I Miss Billmon, and Elton Beard, and Charles Dodson; Steve Gilliard is dead, and I’m blogwhoring Imissfafblog,spot..
What other bloggers are MIA?
perris @ 26
Perris, hello. They took photos and videos b/c they were instructed to. And the photos and videos were passed along to someone, also as instructed. These people are way worse than you think. And what does not kill them makes them stronger. Clarification for Christy and all, I mean that in the sense of investigate, imprison and DO.NOT.PARDON.EVER. Or turn them over to the Hague. Or both.
As more and more info like this comes to light, the more likely it is that Republics will try to campaign on issues like gay marriage and pornography.
Christy, excellent and so sad.
Aren’t we just as guilty if we do nothing?
Bay State Librul @ 72
It is more likely “when Bush pardons Scooter”.
mc @ 50
Funny, I was just drafting a note to my Senator, Carl Levin, to ask him to do just that. Sending a copy of Christy’s post with it.
jayt @ 39
better for a campaign slogan would be something along these lines cuz we have to cast responsibility to those that caused this;
we are better then how far they brought us down
or something along that order, we have to show it was the administration and not the situation that brought us to this place
The very sad thing is that much of the Hersh article is “old news,” information that has been included, piecemeal, in numerous other reports. There have been reports for a long time, including the Congressional testimony - in whistleblower protection hearings, of Samuel Provance http://www.humanrightsfirst.in.....atment.pdf
about the abuse that was actually structured and implemented througth Military Intelligence. He and others talked about being surprised that the Taguba investigations were limited to the Military Police, when it was pretty widely percieved that the worst abuses and the leadership on the abuses came from M.I.
Here’s a very recent piece by Tara McKelvey (Monstering) in American Prospect where she talks to Provance. http://www.prospect.org/cs/art.....abu_ghraib
There has been report after report about Rumsfeld’s direct, day to day involvement and supervision of the “20th hijacker” torture.
Have you seen any charges brought against anyone for some of what was mentioned by Taguba? Sodomizing detainees? Any inquiries into the birth of a child by a long term female detainee? Abusing a 16 yo as a Yoo experiment into making his father talk, not so much to get info from the 16 yo.
Provance’s testimony was before the subcommittee that Chris Shays chaired and yet Shays went back to CT in his run for office and - despite having sat through that testimony and other testimony - had the nerve to tell the voters that Abu Ghraib was just a sex ring of a few rogue soldiers.
The thing is, we’ve had 6 years of the Department of Justice and top lawyers and Inspector Generals at DOJ, FBI, DOD, NSA, CIA etc. issuing, over and over, the stamp of approval on this kind of thing; we’ve had DOJ go into the courts to defend it and cover it up and damn near sing its praises; we’ve had some of the architects of this kind of approach get softball, puff piece after puff piece and the truth is, it’s worked.
There won’t be any big reaction. That would and should have come when the toture memo was initially revealed - instead, there was nothing and most importantly - there was a nonreaction in the legal community, both within DOJ and without. The media took something like Gonzales memo to Bush and misdirected attention to the “quaint” references and away from the fact that Gonzales also said that unlawful enemy combatant designation would help protect the admin for its existing actions under the War Crimes Act. How anyone reads that memo and comes away discussion the use of hte word “quaint” instead of the use of the Statutory War Crimes reference - I’ll never understand. But it happened and it’s now “old news.”
People within DOJ who have assidiously worked to protect a process that now includes kidnapp, disappearanes, child abuse, torture detentions of US citizens and introduction of torture statements into the courts via arrest warrants and even in the courtroom itself as the basis of confessions - they are more likely to appear in even pieces here as “heroes” bc they had one or two things they wouldn’t do - than in pieces examining the things they were perfectly willing to do.
There’s no real way to manufacture outrage now, when the population and media have been trained, through 6 years of legal indifference, to believe that there is just not that much going on or that it is justified or that it was necessary or that, in the end, it is fine for the President, DOD and its tentacles, DOJ and its tentacles - to all engage in immoral and illegal behaviour because, if all else fails, they can just stamp it “state secrets” and go on.
And besides, there’s American Idol and Dancing with the Stars.
There will never be any real accountability, in large part because we do not have, and may never regain, a respect for law within our own Department of Justice. Mike Nifong may get disbarred for his improper press conferences, but DOJ lawyers who issue memos soliciting kidnap and abuse or who hold their own unethical press conferences or who file State Secrets coverups or assist in burying excupatory evidence for GITMO detainees, cover up torture behind statements tendered to the courts, etc. - - they won’t be losing licenses any time soon.
We just aren’t the same country any more.
Whoops, I clicked the wrong button too many minutes ago, so I’d appreciate the Mods’ help in deleting my previous #63.
[Mod: done]
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Thanks, CHS and all you other FDL commenters. This blog keeps me sane. I weep for my country and the moral corruption that yes, emanates from the top, but which is accepted by the co-opted media and Republican party, and by the super-rich oligarchy that controls them and profits from them. It almost makes me cry, now, to see the Stars and Stripes… the flag I swore loyalty to as a kid so many years back. I fly it on my own home, to reclaim it from the jingoistic yahoos who have so foully besmirched it. I cannot help thinking, when I see it flying high anywhere, that is has become a reviled symbol across the world. Yes, I I cry for my beloved country and for those it has killed, wounded, victimized, illegally imprisoned, tortured and robbed both at home and abroad.
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I’m real happy that several ‘Pups are taking part by now. I hope to “see” you there too. There’s even a ‘PupPoll where you can quickly (and anonymously) cast your vote about possible future FDL formats.
I’ll be re-posting this invitation in later blogposts.