While Bush and friends continue their sleight of hand tricks on Iraq policy (don’t look until September) and the presidential debates seem to only give bullhorns to a few MSM favored “frontrunners,” it’s important that we stay focused on the task of ending the occupation. September will come (and go) with more hype and maneuvers and equivocation but one candidate is asking for our help – now – Bill Richardson.
Gov. Richardson has launched a campaign to de-authorize the war before the summer recess:
Article 1 of the US Constitution gives the Congress, not the President, the right to declare war. And the War Powers Act specifies that the President may not continue a war without Congressional authorization. In 2002 Congress passed a resolution authorizing the Iraq war because the administration claimed Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction and links to Al Qaeda.Saddam is dead. There never were any WMDs or ties to Al Qaeda. The basis for the 2002 war authorization is gone.
If Congress passes a resolution de-authorizing the war, the President has no legal authority to continue. De-authorization cannot be vetoed, and it would legally require Bush to begin bringing the troops home.If the President stalled on redeployment, Congress could pass funding legislation requiring him to withdraw. If Congress de-authorizes the war before the summer recess, our troops could be home in six months.
The time for waiting is over. People are dying every day. We cannot wait until this fall to start bringing our troops home. If Congress doesn't act before they leave for the summer, the only thing that will change between now and the end of the year is the body count.
Congress has a public mandate and the Constitutional authority to end this war. If you de-authorize, we could have our ALL troops home in six months.
It is time to stand up to Bush. No more waiting, no more compromises. De-authorize the Iraq war before you leave for summer break.
Now that’s a breath of fresh air … and it seems like the right strategy to me. It moves the discussion away from "funding for the troops" and to the heart of the matter - why are we in Iraq at all? Whether our reps and “front-runners” voted for or against authorization the first time around, here’s a chance for them all to stand up and say “No More!” (and for us to see how many do stand up!)
I haven’t picked a presidential candidate but this very clear approach from Gov Richardson sure has my attention, as has the recent work of Sen. Dodd. And I’m not ready to roll over and pick "lesser of … " for my support this time around and certainly not this early. As netroots activists, I think it’s our job to encourage the best – not only those candidates the MSM has anointed but the ones showing real leadership on the issues that matter most to us.
Whether you have already chosen or are still waiting for Gore or are just undecided, you can still support this very solid call from Richardson by signing up in support of de-authorization here and putting a little FDL netroots muscle (in honor of the Sopranos' finale) on the rest of the field and your own Senators and Congressional representatives.
The photo this week is of children lighting memorial candles along a street in a Baghdad neighborhood which has been repeatedly hit by US air strikes. For an important report on the “secret” air war in Iraq, don’t miss The Air War in Iraq Uncovered by Nick Turse over at TomDispatch.
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errr
HEY!!!
my post reads number one, WHAT’S UP WITH THAT?
Thanks, Siun.
I’ve heard various things about what de-authorization would and wouldn’t accomplish. I’d certainly like to hear more wonky types discussing the details of this.
Siun, I was just talking about this downstairs
here is my prediction if we vote to de authorise;
cheney will claim congress has no authority to de authorize since congress gave the administration unlimited power to fight terrorism
no kidding, that’s what he will claim
then, even if we finally get the repukelicans to impeach they will claim there is still no authority
why, they might even declare martial law suspend congress and senate
no kidding
so what do we do then?
perris @ 1
It means no more zed. Zed is dead. Long live UNO!
this is a great post, it’s a shame some of the firedogs have the suprano addiction going on
Going back up to read.
if Congress passes a resolution de-authorizing the war,
Is that the same thing as repealing the AUMF?
perris @ 3
Arrest him and charge him with treason and high crimes and misdemeanors, and whatever else we can. Impeach him once and for all. Show them what We the People will no longer put up with. End it. Use the “Goddamn piece of paper” they called our Constitution. That’s what we do.
End the Madness, Now!!! Right on, Siun!!!
I am very pessimistic that this has even a ghost of a chance in congress. I would like to believe it, but I just can’t.
perris @ 5
this is a great post, it’s a shame some of the firedogs have the suprano addiction going on
It’s a shame some of us don’t have HBO - *s*
perris @ 3
This congress has no spine and would back down. We need to elect representatives who will support us and not get sucked into the corporate, K Street, DC bubble.
LS @ 8
arrest him?
who will do that, he IS the commander in chief of the armed forces and under oath they MUST follow his orders
correct me if I’m wrong but I believe there is no provision for a military agent to disobey the president
am I wrong?
if I am not then it doesn’t matter who we get to “arrest” them, they will ahve military authority and that power to resist
I’ve said this before (before the “Dem” leadership caved) that they need to show up and stop EVERYTHING IN CONGRESS…EVERYTHING. No bills, no debate, no negotiation. Take control of what you can take control of. You want electricity in the WH, well…BITE ME!
No Sopranos here!
Signed the Richardson petition, Siun. Thanks so much for bringing it to our attention. Has he Congressional sponsors for this, and where stand our PrezCandis in Congress?
Writing to Feinstein and Boxer on this right now. De-authorization makes constitutional, legal, and moral sense. Military as well, when you think about it: goals achieved, mission accomplished. Bring them home, have a parade, pass a GI Bill.
perris @ 13
Just follow the Contitution. If they defy Congress, well then they are a rogue government. It would be our duty to stop that. We rule. Not the Military. Not the President. Not the Vice President. We rule.
Jayt - this is like repealling the AUMF and that’s why I think it has such promise.
Who were the authors of the AUMF????
jayt @ 7
It’s even better, it stops all funding, at a specified date!!! Look back to the Rethug’s denial for Clinton in Solmalia, ‘98!!! BlackHawk Down!!!
The military upholds the constitution, not the personal presidency … so I think their correct action would be clear.
LS @ 8
A nice fantasy, but no more than that. The political reality is that we don’t have the votes to override, much less to impeach. We don’t have the back bone to stand up to this prez. All we have is a razor thin majority, lead by moral and intellectual cowards. And on top of that the media spews nothing but GOP propaganda night and day.
Siun @ 20
there would be those that would uphold the constitution, there would be those that would think “obey their comander in cheif” is upholding the constitution
a civil war
(and no spoilers on Sopranos please! I missed the first 20 minutes so I’m waiting for the rerun)
Teddy - yeah, it does make sense … good clear thinking on Richardson’s part. Would he get the votes - who knows, but it sure puts the question in the most real way to Congress.
Great post Siun, I signed the petition and will put something up on my blog about it.
I am still away from home and have no HBO so I will be missing the East Coast run of the ‘Pranos, but hope to catch it later tonight in LA at a friend’s place.
PLEASE, NO SPOILERS.
noen @ 21
I know!!!! I was just enjoying my fantasy for two minutes!!! Can’t I have even that??? ;>
perris @ 3
let’s have that problem! That would mean that congress actually had voted to de-authorize. That’d be a real different position to be talking from than the current we’re-going-to-make-a-stand-er-oops-whatever-you-want
stance.
LS @ 8
ohhhh, be still my heart!
“Please no spoilers”
I believe that was the topic of the previous thread [Lieberman]
What are the chances that Gov. Richardson’s proposal has a chance in hell? Any count on how many supporters he has been able to gather? He can get all the signatures he likes but inside the beltway this will be seen as little more than grandstanding by a prez. candidate.
How many votes does he have? My guess is that so far he has little more than a handful (I’d love to be wrong).
siun, you once posted a great excerp from “the art of war” by Sun Tzu where he decries a long military engagement
I can’t find the exact excerp, it is time to break that baby out and perhaps do a nice treatment for blog, no?
Boxer
Feinstein
My email:
noen @ 21
I am sick of this malarky. It is based on the notion that ALL Republicans will FOREVER remain loyal to Bush AND Cheney NO MATTER WHAT. That may have been true when Tom Delay was The Hammer.
However, every member of the House and one third of the Senate are up for re-election next year, and sooner or later they will come to the conclusion that unlimited loyalty to BushCo has limited value to their electoral health.
Bob in HI
Congress is afraid to de-authorize the war, because they are afraid that Bush will ignore it if they do;
then what will they do?
It’s a question we should all be asking ourselves: what will we do when Congress finally sorta stands up to Bush, and he defies them?
I think there’s already a subpoena from Waxman’s House Oversight Committee to Sec. State Rice; she seems disinclined to comply. So far Waxman hasn’t done anything about it except to send a series of increasingly testy letters.
What do you think Bush would do if Rove were declared in contempt of the House for failing to comply with a subpoena? I’m terribly afraid he’d defy the Congress. And then what would they do? What would we do?
And that’s why, seven years after the Unpleasantness of 2000, the Dems are still cowed. They still believe that Bush is so intransigent, so devoid of honor, so lawless, that he would fail to accede to the Constitutional authority of Congress.
And maybe they’re right.
So far, no one’s willing to call him on it to find out.
We can’t deal with fantasy. We have to deal with where we are today and where to go from here. That is a fact - like it or not.
Bob Schacht @ 32
I agree 100%
that’s why we need to deal, we can give them what they need, we can help get them re elected by promising no support for people that challenge their seat
we can deal and we must deal, this America cannot wait, the world can’t wait
TeddySanFran @ 31
Teddy, you da best! (((((returns hug)))))
noen …. if we don’t try, we’ll never know.
Richardson has been taking some really stellar positions and I think we should support the ones that we agree with. Will it get enough support? well, maybe not … but it will put the Congress on record and give us a platform where we can demand straight up answers from the candidates and our reps.
That seems a battle worth engaging.
LS @ 25
Sure. You can. It’s just that whenever I see comments like this I want to guide the discussion back to pragmatic solutions. I understand the sentiment and share it too.
Siun @ 37
If we are all wobbly here in virtual reality, think how tough it must be for the congresscritters to muster up some nerve.
joel hanes @ 33
Stop them. Arrest them. Cut off their funding for their buildings - even torture author Yoo said to do that. Just use the power of the purse and take control. What is the problem with doing what they are elected to do. Protect the Constitution. What is everybody afraid of. Is anybody really afraid of W? Get real. Karl Rove is a puss, and Cheney is an old coot. Really, it is the Wizard of Oz that we are living.
Kathryn, can you tell I’m getting a *little* tired of the Senatorial intern pressing the Iraq button for my email response? I ask specific questions about specific proposals and all I get in return is the blah-blah-blah from them both. We deserve real answers from our legislators — and their “people” need to press them for those answers.
The canned email responses that “we’re pedalling as fast as we can” don’t cut it. If we are ever to reach a tipping point, we must push for actual answers and real representation.
Siun, what are the odds Governor Richardson might come to the Lake for a chat about his idea?
noen @ 38
I know. Pragmatic hasn’t worked so far though. It’s bigger than that, I’m afraid.
perris @ 30
When you engage in actual fighting, if victory is long in coming,
[…] you will exhaust your strength, and if the campaign is
protracted, the resources of the state will not be equal to the
strain. […] In all history, there is no instance of a country
having benefited from prolonged warfare. Only one who knows the
distasterous effects of a long war can realize the supreme
importance of rapidity in bringing it to a close.
[Sun Tzu, The Art of War, 400BC]
Considering 70% of the country is against the war, it doesn’t matter what the MSM whores have to say. They are becoming less relevant every day.
Bob Schacht @ 32
I would like to believe that Bob but I see no evidence of that. Do you have any? The GOP is going to try to purge Chuck Hagel and they may succeed at that. If they do, you will see the rest of the members falling in lock step and marching off a cliff.
If nothing else, I see no reason that the GOP cannot be successful in stalling and obstructing until ‘08.
Actually I agree with Bob Schacht @ June 10th, 2007 at 6:27 pm.
It is malarkey it’s people in the club being all cosy and collegiate. It’s way past time that people stopped pretending that the republicans, and a hell of a lot of the democrats come to that, are anything more than cynical and that they’ll do anything to hang on to office.
They’re vulneralbe and they’re scared. Attack and don’t let up and once you’ve got them down keep kicking because that’s how the republicans and their collegial buddies will do to you.
wigwam @ 43
that’s it
man that is great, that is aprapos and that needs to be quoted by the progressives
time to break it out
OMG. Sopranos is great…maybe it should be live blogged!!! I hate it when a show ends or when I get to the end of a book.
LS @ 42
I don’t understand. “What works”, or in other words pragmatism, is all we have. Is there something else?
We can pass this with a simple majority right? In the Senate we need to worry about filibusters from Holy Joe…but if we keep the Senate open with a rotating minium of Senators over the summer like I heard Reid was thinking about doing to stop Bush recess appointments. Then Joe and the Republicans filibusters would be volunteering in a sense to keep the Senate staffed over the Summer Freeing up more but proably not all Democrats to enjoy the summer!
They cannot be arrested. Constitutionally, the President and Vice President are immune from arrest.
That is Fitzgerald’s dilemma.
The only thing that can be done is Impeachment by the House of Representatives, and conviction at trial in the Senate. At that point, they are removed from office.
And then they can be arrested.
It makes me crazy, but I am so devoted to the Constitution of the United States that I have accepted this.
Just once, when a filibuster is threatened, I’d like to see someone call the bluff. Make ‘em *do* it. Then, when they wear out, have the damn vote.
Reid may be from Nevada, but he’s no p*ker player.
LS @ 48
Oh MY!
tbsa @ 44
Ain’t that the truth!!! The MSM’s credibility is sinking faster than the Congressional Dem’s poll numbers, maybe, ‘We the People’ will finally wake up from our six year slumber!!! One can only hope!!! *g*
raw story has a lead on the new york times monday headlines and a snippet;
Monday’s New York Times will lead with a story by veteran Iraq correspondent John Burns revealing that the U.S. military has confirmed that it is arming Sunni insurgent factions to try to contain al-Qaida in Mesopotamia, RAW STORY has learned.
Would the duty editor please drop the firetongs and report to the nearest keyboard :-)
Oh my God. I’m feeling an attack of radicalism coming on.
perris @ 47
Here’s my favorite:
It’s my favorite because I’m sick and tired of hearing people talk about what warriors Republicans are and what wusses democrats are. The objective for which Bush invaded Iran had already been achieved by Bill Clinton without spilling American blood and with spending hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars. That is what “the ancients called a ‘clever fighter’ “.
Suin –
Those links you recommended — The Air War in Iraq Uncovered by Nick Turse over at TomDispatch are breathtaking. It does remind me of when Sy Hersh broke the My Lai story. It was in Dispatch News Service. Very few papers bought in (the only MSM was the Chicago Sun-Times.) So it must be like rolling that boulder up the hill, but that’s where the blogs, and the stories you cited, somehow are finally building momentum — drop after drop. And while it seems like a thunderstorm to me, maybe turning on one person at a time, make for real change. I hope like hell I’m not just whistling past the cemetery, De-authorize might start to get people’s undivided attention.
MfI … I’m sharpening my pointy toes boots!
This is not about impeachment - it’s about taking a very clear right step. De-Authorize the occupation now. Not taking those steps because we are afraid we might see the reality of the lawlessness of this administration makes us complicit … and makes the members of Congress who refuse to act complicit.
(ps, No live blogging Soprano’s please - some of us want to see the whole thing with no spoilers later this evening.)
wigwam @ 43
it goes on though doesn’t it?
something to the effect of no great victory from protracted engagement
that’s a great part of the excerp
CTuttle @ 54
I don’t see it. Fox is still the most popular network isn’t it? Are there thousands protesting in the streets? No. Are a majority of the masses of people calling and writing to end this war now? No. Does a majority even vote? No, they do not. They are too busy with their own lives or else they’re watching Paris Hilton throwing a tantrum.
Most people don’t even know who their representative is.
jayt @ 52
They changed the rules on filibuster back about 20-30 years ago so that the Senators calling for the “filibuster” no longer have to stand and talk non-stop for forever. At the same time, they changed it from a 2/3 (67 votes) for cloture to the 60 votes for cloture. THAT’S why the 60 vote mark is so important. And as long as Toothless Mitch is running the Republics, they’ll block anything that reasonable people want to see. THAT is part of the reality until after the 11/08 election.
Yes Sir! correcting typo now … tongs at parade rest.
> Arrest them.
I’d like to point out, as gently as possible, that the Department of Justice is currently taking orders from someone named Gonzales. Why do you think he’s still there?
Do you think that Gonzales is going to issue orders to arrest anyone at the White House?
Nonsense.
Everyone in the White House is currently Exempt, and they know it.
perris @ 5
Here’s a question as far as a resolution in Congress goes: What are the chances of such a resolution standing up to a challenge under Chadra? IANAL, but I thought that case ended the congressional veto.
beth meacham @ 51
… provided that they haven’t pardoned each other on the way out the door.
Thanks Siun, I’ll be sure to share this with some friends.
I like Richardson, this got my attention Diplomacy, Not Attacks, and his record on gay rights as govenor is impressive, which I hope he would take to the federal level.
And Senator Dodd with his stand up support for Ned, along with his overall record should receive serious attention.
dakine01 @ 63
damn - didn’t know that. (’course, that whole period of 20-30 years ago has some long, hazy holes in it on my part.) ahem.
Senate website on filibuster/cloture
James - link please? I’d be interested in seeing more on that.
Richardson’s team points out that the de-authorization does not require a presidential signature, hence the whole veto issue is moot.
And Lew - thanks for pointing to those links on the air war. They are very important stories and it would be great if folks would spread them around.
While you’re at it go after the mercenaries. No mercenaries no war in Irak - for which you can thank Rummy’s “reforms”. Most of that money comes from the monies allocated to Kindofsleazy Rice because it’s “aid” (try not to puke)
Senator Tom Coburn has an amendment planned for the Abu no-confidence vote tomorrow afternoon: It takes one to know one.
dakine01 @ 63
How often do they have to talk at least once every day? What about Weekends? I could live with Joe and a few Republicans not going home to campaign and raise money over the summer.
jayt @ 69
jayt:
This is from wiki:
In current practice, Senate Rule 22 permits procedural filibusters, in which actual continuous floor speeches are not required, although the Senate Majority Leader may require an actual traditional filibuster if he or she so chooses. This threat of a filibuster can be just as powerful as an actual filibuster.
While it may seem premature at the moment, it would be nice is some of the candidates discuss the specific qualities they would like to see in their nomination for Attorney General. If the election turn out the way I would hope, aggressive attention from Congressional investigators, together with a hard nosed look from the Justice Department might set out on a two year “special” look at White House illegalities (which also would include the past DOJ leadership as well as the Beebe’s and the Yoo’s.) More light, more light.
TeddySanFran @ 73
I think the vote needs to be postponed one more time till we get more from this;
(think progress)
One of the advantages to supporting Richardson’t de-authorization is that it allows us to put the issue to the candidates very directly. HRC can’t hide behind “gosh, W lied to us and now what can we do” for example. This says, ok that was done - now is time to end it. Pure and simple. No “gosh, but the troops won’t have MREs” … it removes all the cover that so many D’s are using to avoid ending the occupation.
I think Bill Richardson would certainly consider a live blog. . .will spotlight this to his staff.
I’ve been chatting with Richardson’s staff and I hope we’ll have news of a visit sometime soon. I’d sure like to learn more about his other positions - and thank him for this and for his amazingly strong stand on global warming (backed up by action as Governor). Oh, he’s also sane about medical marijuana too …
perris @ 3
LS said it last thread. We take to the streets.
Siun @ 78
I would love to see this happen. How many votes does he have? What, realistically are his chances of getting this through?
perris @ 61
Here is the whole chapter from a different translation.
Noen - I don’t know what support in Congress he has … hopefully, we can all create some!
noen @ 49
Hmmm. You are asking a layman a complicated question that the “layman” raised.
We have a constitution. We have laws. We preemtively attacked a sovereign nation based on faulty and suspect evidence, that proved to be untrue. We have had serious questions regarding the vote count of two presidential elections. The people in power created documents in the 1990’s (PNAC) expressing their agenda. Most of that agenda has come to pass. Our public media has supported the agenda of the administration based sometimes on pressure from those “in power” (Libby trial evidence). Our Justice Department and many other departments have been infiltrated by political operatives that seek to shape the characterization of the laws of our land. Our taxpayers have been duped by lobbyists who misused the funds to support partisan efforts. Our taxpaying dollars have been used to pad personal lifestyles of congressmen, such as convicted felon Cunningham. Our government has not acted during national emergencies such as Katrina or Rita. We watched in horror as a city died in front of our eyes! Our jobs have been outsourced, and our citizens displaced. We can’t fly on an airplane if we speak our minds, because we’ve been eavesdropped on and deemed as dangerous without probabable cause. We have lost Habeas Corpus. Okay, there is tons more, but I stop there. Pragmatic has not worked so far. This is serious. I trust that the Democratic leadership is more aware of these things than I am. They have access to information we will never see.
The thing that most alarms me, is a pre-emptive strike on Iran right now. Our civil rights are equally important, and our exit from the debacle in Iraq is equally important. We stand at a crossroads right now. We need some really strong leaders, and we need them NOW.
wigwam @ 83
thanx, will read L8tr 2nite
It’s starting to get kind of urgent. The bridge campaign is intensifying. Another one was blown today and that one’s important so important that it was permanently under heavy US guard. Then there was this that was a time on target barrage not a lucky shot.
Siun @ 80
The problem I have with richardson is two-fold
1) His exageration/lying on his resume for years about having been drafted by the KC Royals.
2) His ludicrous performance at the debates including naming Whizzer White as his fave Supreme Court Justice ucz he was a jock and his support for Abu solely becuz he was Hispanic
Neither of those items lend themselves to my having confidence in the man, no matter how much I may have hoped for better given his resume.
I like Richardson- appears to be competent- an undervalued commodity. Doesn’t appear to have much of a chance- but it IS early.
Siun @ 23
I sent him a little money too. This kind of work deserves to be rewarded.
I’m still with Gore.
I’m sorry to be late here but I am just blown away with the citation from TeddySanfran at 73. Here’s the link. A real mensch.
http://www.law.com/jsp/article.....6455062969
boing flying forward one-and-a-half somersaults, pike position, no splash
g’evening siun. excellent post and discussion tonight.
You guys won’t believe what happened w/ the SOpranos.
Right at the end, Tony…
Kidding, I dont even have HBO.