This has been a long time coming:
Even Democrats who support other candidates admit, grudgingly, that Edwards’s proposals would very likely have some measurable impact on American poverty. The expansion of the earned-income tax credit alone, Democratic analysts say, would translate into a $750 annual windfall, on average, for about four million poor Americans. Social scientists say pilot projects along the lines of Edwards’s work bonds have lent credence to the idea that the working poor can successfully be encouraged to save some of their wages, as long as the process of setting up the account isn’t onerous. The public-housing vouchers Edwards talks about have been the subject of some controversy, and opponents cite mixed results, but most experts — not to mention anybody who has ever spent time in the projects of the Bronx or Boston — believe that finally dismantling the 1960s experiment in warehousing the poor can only be a good thing for the people who live there.The question isn’t whether these policies will make a difference, but whether they will make all the difference — that is, whether Edwards’s plan would really eradicate poverty in America, or at least significantly diminish it. Most leading economists in the antipoverty field, particularly those who aren’t partisans in the old and stultified political debate between Great Society liberals and Reagan-era conservatives, now talk about poverty solutions as having two components. The first and most obvious is economic. Being poor means, quite literally, that you don’t have money; it stands to reason, then, that offering jobs and tax credits that encourage people to work will, on some level, alleviate poverty. The second component, however, has to do with what a lot of academics now refer to as “human capital.” This comprises the other, less visible resources, aside from money, that many poor people lack: education, marketable skills, contacts, self-discipline. The kinds of advantages that middle-class families take for granted — knowing, say, how to ace a job interview or how to prepare your children for success in school — often elude those who have grown up in poverty, thus perpetuating a cycle of economic failure.Social scientists have been thinking hard about how to create policies that address this less quantifiable aspect of poverty. In New York City, acting on the work of his special commission on poverty, Mayor Michael Bloomberg is raising money (an undisclosed amount of which is his own) for an innovative pilot project, inspired by similar programs in countries like Mexico and South Africa, that will award cash payments to parents who participate in their child’s health care and schooling. Some experts, meanwhile, argue the best (and maybe the only) way to bridge the divide in human capital is to expand and improve early-childhood educational programs. One leading voice in this camp is the University of Chicago’s James Heckman, a Nobel Prize-winning economist, who contends, after years of studying the subject, that all the low-wage jobs and adult training programs on the planet won’t succeed in eliminating poverty unless government intervenes in the earliest stages of childhood, when tax dollars have been shown to yield the most return. “If people have limited options, low skills and an inability to function in the larger economy,” Heckman told me, “you can give them money, but if you don’t give them the skills, if you don’t somehow improve their access to those institutions that make a society productive, then all you’re going to do is more of what we did in the 1960s with the War on Poverty — namely, it will eradicate poverty in the sense that it will give people money, but it won’t lead to sustained growth of income, and the kids of these people will probably also enter poverty.”
Holes in the Safety Net To liberals, historically, taking on things like parenting skills and self-discipline veers dangerously close to blaming people for their own poverty — which is what they charge conservatives with doing. Instead, Democrats in the era since Bill Clinton have settled on a delicate formula for talking about poverty: they make concrete proposals in the economic realm (job training, tax credits, a higher minimum wage) while sternly deploying code phrases (“personal responsibility,” “playing by the rules”) that suggest that those in need also have to make better choices for themselves and their children. Not surprisingly, perhaps, Edwards follows this same basic regimen. While he talks about making people “take responsibility” and emphasizes the value of work, his antipoverty agenda contains little that is new or innovative to encourage better parenting or to impart more useful life skills. When I asked him about this, Edwards assured me that he understands the scope of the issue. He told me that he had visited more than 100 antipoverty and neighborhood centers around the country since the last election and that what he saw in some of those places stunned him. “When you’re sitting with a woman who’s working two or three jobs and having a terrible time making ends meet, and she tells you that her 14-year-old girl is having her third child, it makes you weep inside,” he said, with obvious emotion. “I mean, where’s the hope? They are absolutely doomed to poverty.”...
There are so many intertwined issues tangled up in the vast mess that is poverty. And so often politicians talk about a single strand as if pulling on that one string will unravel the whole mess. It is well past time that we started talking about the issues as a whole -- multiple puzzle pieces that must, somehow, be put together to form something far more decent and coherent. That includes access to health care and mental health services, including preventative care which is desperately needed, and a whole host of other issues from childcare to job training and education to family intervention services to parenting classes to...well, you see what I mean that once you start thinking about all of the issues involved in this, the magnitude of the problem -- and its elusive solutions starts to hit home.
The reality is that there is a growing underclass of folks in America with no safety net. For every person out there who is griping about American moral obligations, to ignore this issue or pass it over as a "if they were better people, they'd lift themselves up and do some real work" is appallingly uninformed about what it is like to be a small child in an impoverished, malnourished, abusive household, filled with adults who are not coping well with mental issues, drug and alcohol addictions, and worse. Having seen the results of this cycle of poverty and desperation in generation after generation of some families who weave in and out of our local criminal justice system, I can tell you that this is not a problem with an easy fix. But tackle it we must for the good of everyone in our communities.
Everyone has to pitch in on this -- and I do mean everyone. More of this sort of discussion please -- because the children born into this cycle of poverty need all of us. And good on Edwards and every other politician who has been working on this issue, publicly and privately. Hillary Clinton was correct all those years ago when she said that "it takes a village," because it does -- and the sooner everyone realizes that we are all connected to one another in ways that we cannot always immediately quantify, the better we will all be.
This is an issue that impacts criminal justice, education, medical care costs over the long term, and so many, many other issues. We discuss this and act because we must. To do otherwise is, quite simply, immoral. I know that a lot of our readers work in fields where they are directly involved in issues that intersect with poverty concerns. I'd love to hear your thoughts this morning on things that are being done well -- and things that need work.
And I've clearly got another book to add to my "to read" pile once the Edwards poverty essay compilation arrives. If you haven't read it already, this compilation of essays put together by Alan Curtis of the Eisenhower Foundation is a great place to start.
(Photo of a homeless woman in California via Shavar.)
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The gap between rich and poor is growing. Poverty is a reality for more families, or soon will be.
(From last thread)
Andrew Sullivan has a post about Tagg Romney’s MySpace page. Seems he likes “Battlefield Earth,” just like his dad. Andrew is wondering if he thinks Scientology is a religion or not.
Unfortunately, you need to add someone as a friend to post a comment. I can’t bring myself to do it. I do love the girl that asks him “do people now your family is Mormon?” (sic)
tiredfed, you have mail w/links. let me know if further help needed.
And we need to focus on the most deadly attack currently on middle class america, namely draining house equity to pay credit card interest for discretionary (lifestyle) purchases.
Why doesn’t some politician say something like this: If we stop spending two billion dollars a week on the Iraq occupation, then we might begin to address poorness.
Poorness is a disease. And it kills.
I think that one of the major legs needed to fight poverty is education.
Education whether it is vocational, collegiate, or skill based is the best track IMO to help end the cycle of poverty.
Minimum wage jobs perpetuate poverty.
Politicians fail to understand that sooner or later poorness will raise it’s ugly head.
OKK at 5 — They say that a lot. The media just doesn’t give it much coverage.
Hey Kids, Thanks to the gutting of the treasury by Bush et al, the U.S. Government itself has entered the ranks of the debt crushed poor. I’m afraid that all this talk of what we could do “if only” has to remain academic unless our monetary master, the Chinese government approves.
Children learn from their parents. If the parents are alcoholic and abusive, the odds are the children will grow up to be alcoholic and abusive. If the parents do not know how to maintain a clean and tidy house, it is likely that the children will not learn how to maintain a clean and tidy house.
Having people learn various types of life skills does not in any way make them less of a human. It makes them a human who is in need of teaching and support and only a human in need of teaching and support.
Apologies for this completely OT comment:
RBG, if you ‘re here, no canna get in all morning - safari or firefox. Hep me, hep me! Don’t know if it’s a Wordpress issue.
Now back to your regularly scheduled program.
How could I leave out healthcare? I work with veterans. I see daily the struggle many have in just getting their care. Trouble with transportation, as in none, or lack of money for gasoline, housing issues (ie. homeless), substance abuse, and the list goes on endlessly.
The VA might not be perfect, but it does provide many services for our veterans. These services include travel pay which is income dependent, homeless programs, prescription coverage with an income dependent copay. The main positive to me is that they do have coverage and there are systems in place to which referrals can be made to help address unique problems.
Universal healthcare for all is a mandate to me. We cannot continue playing ostriches when so many either lack insurance or find themselves avoiding care due to cost.
Sorry for the book, but the issues of poverty really set off a rarely used desire to post a comment.
watertiger at 12 — Are you entering from the front page login tag? You have to do it from the front page — if you are trying to use an old saved link, it likely isn’t operational. Try going in from the login in the right-hand column and, if you are still having problems, e-mail me and I’ll reset your backstage info for you.
I agree with that we need to put more dollars into early childhood education, nutrition, and care. The positive returns from this “investment” is proven. It’s a hard hearted beast that works to cut that funding.
We need to look around the world at social groups that are successful, the Amish and Mennonite communities are examples of The Village at work. We could learn from them.
Thanks Christy!
This problem, like so many others, requires long-term patience, something is short supply today. We need to be willing to put in the time as a society before we focus on the victims of the economic and social juggernaut that is the US. Otherwise we’ll have a string of false-starts, implementations of programs that last less than the length of a Presidential administration, and pile up more misery. Sounds familiar. And it may take a new “New Deal” sized commitment if we delay.
I think Richard Dreyfuss’ stand on Civics would be a good place to start.
Christy,
Thank you for this post.Oklahoma kiddo @ 5
Yeah, kiddo, why indeed? It’s because They Don’t Care about people. When Loo Hoo and I talked to Issa’s Deputy about corporatization, his response was something like What’s wrong with smart people making a lot of money with their companies. Loo said there’s nothing wrong with that as long as they pay their share of taxes. He said They Do! Liar! Almost everything we discussed led me to believe that I wasn’t sitting across from a human being with a heart and mind, but a big fat wallet with a mouth.
Now, on the positive side, I work with a group of people who help to support a mission in Kentucky. They provide food assistance, medical and dental care and education for the poor in Kentucky. They also have a team of women who go out to young women during and after pregnancies, to give them parenting and health instruction. They also give them plain old moral support. I learned that for some of these young mothers, these visits are their only contact with the outside world.
That’s my morning harumph.
This is so damn complicated, but in the end is quite simple. Redistribution of wealth. Many years ago, I did a masters thesis on income inequality in the US labor force, and I am saddened to say that it has only gotten worse in all that time.
Yet, there is a redistribution of power that is taking place right in front of us, and no one seems to be paying attention. Most people still cannot comprehend a society without a chain of command, yet a network form of social order is emerging and becoming more powerful every day. More later. This cannot be described in a simple comment. It would take several books.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 14
Christy, using the sidebar “meta” link. I just get a blank page - no login fields.
I’ve been gone for a month, on an island without internets. Did I miss anything? Has Bush been impeached? Since gas isn’t eleven dollars a gallon I’m going to assume we haven’t attacked Iran.
I once worked with a guy who, in all seriousness, thought that homelessness and poverty would be solved if all the homeless people simply got jobs at McDonalds. The root cause of poverty was a lack of sufficient gumption to fill out a McDonald’s application. Also, he thought we should have more defense spending because that made jobs.
Poverty in this country is inexcusable unless you happen to believe that corporations have greater rights than human beings.
If the MSM is ignoring our elected reps. on the issues, and I believe the main stream media is doing just that, then perhaps a positive approach for our elected officials, who must be aware of the situation, is to force the media to correct itself.
Right you are Christy. Good topic.
I hold Ronald Reagan directly responsible for this. It was he who made ridiculous statements like :Government is the problem and not the solution.” Others followed desperately trying to undo the Roosevelt New Deal. And everybody’s buddy Clinton who set up ” The end of welfare as we know it.” Shame on them all.
triciawrites @ 7
Exactly. This highlights why NCLB is so important to the Right. How better to perpetuate the supply of low wage workers than destroy the very means they have to rise: free public education.
Test the schools and set standards that assure every school will eventually fail. Allow the elite to take their children to any school they want while the others will not be able to afford that option.
I’m not against NCLB simply because I am a teacher. It’s one of the key cogs in the “VRWC” that needs to be dismantled.
Recall: Our prez said Ronald Reagan was his hero.
Great post, Christy, and great subject.
One of the cycle-breakers is education, of course, but it is harder than just “fixing the schools” - I have friends who are teachers, and the ones in good neighborhoods have good schools. The ones in poorer neighborhoods would often bring food to their classroom so that their kids didn’t go hungry.
And our health care system is criminally broken, because it has mutated into an insurance company profits driven entity and far away from something that allocates health care according to need.
I thought Jesus was his hero.
In one generation (say from late 60’s early 70’s), the price of a jar of spaghetti sauce has gone from 43 cents to $3. You could buy a new car for $6,000. A candy bar was 10 cents. Gasoline has gone from 33 cents a gallon to $3 per gallon.
Minimum wage has barely changed.
Inflation. The basic economic system creates poverty.
Here is the contrary view, just to make you throw up a little in your mouth:
Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The savage’s whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe. Civilization is the process of setting man free from men.
Ayn Rand
You can see why she died alone and unloved
The poverty issue and wealth/others disparity can be seen in all its naked horror on the HHS Pandemic Flu Leadership Blog. It has a limited five week run - and it started on May 22. The HHS bloggers are displaying Katrina behavior - mixed messages, ambiguous messages, unresponsive to comments, and absolute indifference to the public’s calls for clear and accurate information sharing.
The issue of interest is around the calls to stockpile. Those who lack the means cannot stockpile food on a food stamp budget - heck - to do so would be to break the rules of receiving food stamps. And speaking to stockpiling flu medicine, masks and personal protective equipment to be able to shelter in place - meaning to stay in the home - for eight weeks to SIX MONTHS - is unfathomable.
Hie thee over there, read the posts by the HHS leaders (there are public panelists blogging, too - but they don’t speak for HHS). Read the posts by Leavitt and the Admiral - and then come back here and explain just how poverty is really being addressed - to this N=1, it looks like planned genocide a la New Orleans.
the economist/philosopher Amartya Sen was awarded the nobel in economics which demonstrated that famine is seldom if ever a problem of scarcity, per se. Famine, rather, is almost always caused by decisions regarding allocation and distribution.
that is, if one reads between the lines, famine is most frequently the result of political decisions far removed from the wcene of starvation.
i suspect the same is true of poverty: it is not a matter of scarcity, but one of decisions about the allocation and distribution of material resources and opportunities…that is, a political and not a personal problem…
/
Are our public colleges and universities teaching their journalism students about objectivity and the importance of ethics, morality and relevancy? Perhaps I need to turn my attention to the media and it’s apparent gross failings.
Education is one piece of this. But the definition of education needs to change radically. Instead of “training workers,” we need to educate people to be citizens. Then, and only then will the focus change from economics to citizenship and taking control of the government (and economy) to make it do our bidding.
When I lived in NYC in 1973, I think it cost 25 cents to ride the subway, and it was pretty cheap to go to the movies.
What are the prices in NYC now for:
Subway
Bridge tolls
movies
I’m curious?
Here’s another book on this subject for your reading list, Christy- Orwell’s “Down and Out in Paris & London.” A semi-fictionalized account of his living on basically nothing in those two cities. As timely now as then (1933) for insight into poverty from those who are impoverished. A quote from Chaucer begins “Down & Out:”
“O scathful harm, condition of poverte!”
I posted the following LA Times link last Fri., when I attended Mamie Hatleberg’s memorial service- Mamie was one of our local heroes who couldn’t stand to watch poor people go hungry, so she did something about it:
Mamie Hatleberg Obituary
I think the subway is 2 bucks. I lived in NYC the same time you did.
Tell me about it, I know this all too well. I am one of those with no safety net.
sofistic @ 18
Isn’t this some of the thinking behind the estate tax? It’s sickening that a handful of uber-wealthy families and their hired legislators managed to bamboozle the rank & file Republicans that they were at risk of the government seizing their family farm or business to pay for the indolent masses.
How much money is enough! How much money does a person need to live a really good life? Just look at Prince Bandar getting billions from the UK for arms deals. How many billions does that man need to get through a day?
The hypocrisy is at times almost, I said ‘almost’, overwhelming and suffocating. Our politicians, especially the GOP pays all this lip-service to capitalism and that’s it’s all about work and the so called “merit-system”. Bunk.
LS @ 28
Americans do not realize how we are becoming a third world country. In the 1960s, my dad made $7,500 a year. I had three brothers. My mother did not work. We had a house that was paid off and a decent used car. We had plenty of food and a vacation every summer. Today I know academic couples where both work, making $120,000 a year, and they are living paycheck to paycheck.
The state of Florida made a hurricane preparedness video, which local PBS affiliates aired. It seemed to assume that Florida is entirely populated by prosperous middle-aged white men with two-car garages that each contain an SUV, a two-week supply of food and a $3000 Honda generator, and enough cash to spend a week in a Holiday Inn in Georgia if need be. The subtext was “if you are poor, you will just have to die.”
The really sad thing about local gas stations is that they have to sell snacks and stuff to pay their bills. They make more on a gallon of water (which is their biggest seller, by the way). I remember when you drove in a gas station and got your oil checked and your windows cleaned. I’m starting to sound like my father.
spinoza @ 40
Exactly. The system needs to change, but how?
Do take the time to read the whole NYTimes Magazine article on Edwards that I linked first above — particularly for the lining out of the poverty debate issues that Bai does. he falls into the over-simplification trap in some ways, but as a quick-sketch overview, it is an introduction to the issues worth reading. I can’t wait to see Ian or Sterling or Bonddad dig into this, though — that is some discussion worth reading on the issues.
When I canvassed for Ned, I went to a public housing complex for the first time in my life. I knew they existed. I drove by them, read about them, sold ice cream off a truck on the outskirts of one, however I had never looked into the eyes of the people who lived there. That was a very telling experience.
Up to that day I had brought food to food banks, donated money, donated clothes, and participated in fund drives, etc. There was a layer of insulation in all of that.
This may be a quote or a paraphrase of what someone else may have said, however I think the legacy of any society is how they treat the less fortunate.
Gotta run–see you guys l8tr
wgg: tokin lib’rul @ 31
Hi WGG!
Absolutely correct. You are still my choice for sec. of state.
It’s about equal pay. A living wage with benefits. It’s about jobs.
it’s not a sub-text at all; since Katrina it’s been an explicit part of the message…
.
This may be a quote or a paraphrase of what someone else may have said, however I think the legacy of any society is how they treat the less fortunate.
Yep.
Just who will make a great president in 2009?
Christy Hardin Smith @ 44
But gee, Christy, he lives in a 20,000 square foot house, what does he know? /s
(Thanks for this, I wouldn’t have seen the article otherwise.)
The 2008 voter surpression drive has begun:
Mississippi Requires Voter ID and Party ID to Vote in Primaries in 2008!
And it’s being forced by a Federal Judge!
Richest 20% of the population: Distribution by country. US is right between Mozambique and India. Richest 20% of population, by country
Every single resident in my building was homeless once, as was I in 2003. We don’t need pieties, we need access to affordable housing, affordable health care and a living wage.
The local neighborhood protested the building I am in right now because of the stereotypes of the homeless. We broke those stereotypes and proved everyone of them wrong. Now the neighborhood association is one of our biggest supporters.
All we needed was the chance, the opportunity, that’s all.
.cleter @ 41
That is exactly the tone that HHS is taking toward pandemic flu preparation. The worldwide death rate is over 50%, and the victims are primarily under forty years of age - and female. If there’s a mutation that gets to the US, the waves of death will be in the MILLIONS!
With already overcrowded emergency departments and hospitals, there is no room to accept tidal waves of patients, no one to care for them, no ventilators to put them on, and no one to assure that people have food to eat, water to drink, sanitation, utilities and any other basic necessities. And that’s just with the first wave which will last for about six weeks.
The HHS is doing all of the same Katrina-type stuff: chatting in endless ambiguities, not doing anything concrete to prepare, not working with the National Guard, and state public health agencies, not contracting with hospitals for more beds, staff and respiratory resources, not stockpiling flu medications, personal protective equipment or making distribution plans, and not assuring that supplies of food, potable water and electricity will be available.
This isn’t a Chicken Little scenario - this is knowing that the pandemic is coming - at any time, and willfully ignoring the public welfare by not preparing.
Oklahoma Kiddo or Anyone
Do you have a source for that 2 billion dollars a week? I want to use this fact in a piece I’m writing and would feel better if I could quote the source.
dmoore @ 57
Here’s something from last year.
I’m thrilled that Edwards is discussing this and that for the first time in a generation we might get past the blame the victim, Emersonian self-reliance approach to dealing with poverty that was noxious at it’s core. Even Hilly’s hubby in his 8 years in office did little to dispel the Rethug TP that poor people are essentially responsible for their own situation and the government should do nothing about it (although his strong economy did help a lot, thank goodness W dismantled that).
What is this planet’s greatest resource - is it oil or gold or could it possible, who’da’thunk’it, be its people? Wow, our greatest resource, renewable resource!, and we’ve had a generation of politicians in this country do little to try to address what is needed to get the most value out of it.
Pathetic.
dmoore @ 57
this is dated, it’s from September last year. It’s from a congressional analysis
Cleter@27: Jesus can’t be W’s hero. Jesus actually cared about the poor. He fed them. W’s idea of Jesus is some kind of perverted Calvinism (not a doctrine I care much for to begin with), as with all the Republicans since Reagan: poverty is a sign of a person’s failings; wealth signifies virtue. Background, race, ethnicity, bad luck—immaterial. No issues complicate the equation. I don’t think W has ever even mentioned the poor.
Edwards is extremely wealthy now, but he came up from a very humble beginning. Unlike W, he actually earned his wealth, and unlike W he is trying to help people who didn’t start out with advantages and privileges. I’m very glad to see the NYTimes paying any kind of attention.
Newtonusr and Elliot
Thank you so much! Now I’ve got facts! All the better to make my point!
Children living in poverty: US is number 2, between Mexico and Italy. Children living in poverty, by country
historically, taking on things like parenting skills and self-discipline veers dangerously close to blaming people for their own poverty
this needs a re-frame. cyclical poverty has certainly created conditions that need solutions beyond just money. but, a lack of day to day resources makes people have to make tough choices that favor immediate needs over longer range goals which are often what people associate with “good-parenting”.
put an extra $100 a week in parent’s pockets and watch how their parenting improves…
LS @ 34
LS - ccmask @ 36 is correct. The subway and local buses have gone up to $2 a ride in NYC (threatening to rise to $3 per by 2010), and the tunnels and bridges are about $6 (some of the bridges out of NY are still free, but I know of only one INTO NY for which the same can be said). Movies, probably like much of the country, run about $9 a ticket. They’re definitely a luxury item nowadays.
Jesus can’t be W’s hero. Jesus actually cared about the poor. He fed them. W’s idea of Jesus is some kind of perverted Calvinism
The right wing’s view of Jesus is Ayn Rand nailed to a cross having sex with Milton Friedman.
spinoza @ 66
Brain Bleach, Stat!
There’s a guy at my church, I’ll call him Phil, ’cause that’s his name. Whole family very conservative right. Everyone served in the miltary. Now his youngest daughter is the Navy. He’s changed his tune about the war. He say’s I just don’t want her going over there.
Context means so much. Recently I heard that he said that we could help the poor so much more if we weren’t wasting $s in Iraq. It did my heart good to hear of his conversion to the truth.
I find the self-discipline crack to be especially offensive. It’s pure BS. We don’t lack self-discipline or any of the others on your list. We lack opportunity. We lack access to a job that pays, or those who belong to minorities, they lack a discrimination free environment.
Transportation is another issue. It may be ok in New York, but even here in Minneapolis it is a nightmare to try to get to a job just through the bus system.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 22
i caught Marcy Wheeler’s C-Span book review and she said something that may just work here = give reporters report cards. She gave Carol Leonig an ‘A’ on her Libby Trial reporting, and another reporter a ‘B.’ He was quite indignant over his grade and demanded to know why he didn’t get an ‘A.’ She told him. I think it was he who later wrote a front page above the fold decent article.
We might have to institute a Friday post wrapping up the reporting of the week and explain their grades by pointing out what they missed and what the got wrong.
David Broder wrote some good stuff but then ruined it by sliming the Wilsons. Broder gets an F. (Succoming to republican blackmail)
Alfred Kelgarries @ 53
Any thoughts on whether this particular Justice Department wants to pick a fight with the Supreme Court?
spinoza @ 66
The Xtianist view is “All we have to do is say ‘I believe’ and all my sins are fergiven.” Actual Christian acts are meaningless and wasteful in that perspective. It is purely in the act of believing.
I’m thinking there are going to be a lot of VERY surprised souls at some point.
newtonusr @ 71
Well, in the irony department, the DEMOCRATS brought the suit…
…I suspect an appeal will be made and the judgement stayed due to constitutional issues…but in the current political climate, who knows?
Kathryn in MA @ 70
OK. That’s funny and illustrative!
I worked with 3 women who had children starting when they were 14. 2 of these women live with their mothers still, and 1 made it out of poverty and is now an RN. I’m so happy for her.
By the way—don’t ask these women to register to vote. They are firmly anti-political, because politics is boring, doesn’t matter to them, and they’re over-burdened as it is. I would love to know how to reach women like this so they can have a say in their future representatives and presidents.
And in your self interest, you’ll be joining us soon. What I am worried about is “How do we get there?” How do we get to a society that cares about the less fortunate? ‘Cause I don’t see it just happening, not even if Dems are elected, it isn’t a guarantee at all.
Alfred Kelgarries @ 73
Yeah, but the “Dems” rationale is to protect the party and process from being seeded by switchers - cutting off ones nose…
dakine01 @ 72
Matthew 7L20 et al:
7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ 24 will enter into the kingdom of heaven – only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. 7:22 On that day, many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in your name, and in your name cast out demons and do 25 many powerful deeds?’ 7:23 Then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you. Go away from me, you lawbreakers!’
triciawrites @ 7
Yes, but we should start by accentuating what works in order to make in-roads with conservatives who resist the idea that government can be a solution.
The G.I. Bill was successful in helping lower class Americans become better educated.
HeadStart programs increase the success rate of at-risk children when they do enter school; increases in pre-K education correlate with a corresponding drop in jail/prison usage 13-20 years out, as well.
Had an argument not too long ago with one of my retired union buddies, who has been against Michigan Governor Granholm’s 21st Century Jobs initiative, which calls for state-subsidized education for first two years of college. He maintains that not all students are college material. I explained that in this day and age, students need more time in school to make up for the time lost due to NCLB testing (could be a year’s time over the course of K-12) and exponentially increasing demands of technology (how much does technology change over the course of K-12? ). We must help the folks who are stuck on the other side of the technological divide bridge it if they are going to stand a chance at a better paying job, and if our country is ever to regain its role as a net exporter of technology rather than an importer.
We also need to adopt as part of national ethic that education is lifelong, not limited to K-12. What did you learn this year, last year, and what will you learn next year and five or more years out? Shouldn’t this be a part of our national dialogue?
Spinoza @ 66: okay, that’s disgusting (but very funny). What an image. Thank you so very much.
It’s jobs that count. In 1953 unemployment
was 2% when the education level was lower
than today’s . AOBTW the highest incremental tax rate was 90% which permitted those employees to spend their pay check without
inflation . Whether it’s tax olicy ,globalization ,immigration or none of the above the solution to reducing poverty involves economics more than social policy.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 44
It ought to be possible for FDL to have a “web conference” on this (or any other issue). You could schedule it like Book Salon, but for a whole afternoon — invite three experts to create posts, share in advance and the run them sequentially for 45-minutes to an hour each — followed by an open discussion with all three.
noen @ 69
Yes - I can relate - whistleblower - wrongful termination - defamed and now permanently unemployed and soon to be evicted and homeless. Don’t think that there is any support for those who are dis-enfranchised. And if you are a woman without family, you are deemed worthless. Utterly, totally worthless. So much for pulling oneself up by bootstraps - mine are hanging me.
r m flanagan @ 81
It’s not just jobs. Technology and outsourcing are inexorably moving up the class chain, and at its limit will do away with the idea of work altogether (well, nearly). What then? How will wealth be distributed if there are no workers? Think this is science fiction? Not.
Correct you are Alfred. He also said some seeds fall on fertile land and some fall on fallow soil, or something like. Some get it, some don’t.
Tell me about it. I’m working two jobs while trying to make sure my kid has food, diapers and the such. I’m trying to put myself back into college and finish it up so that I can have some hope of making a decent income. I don’t know how people who make minimum wage survive when they’re supporting two other people. It’s pretty impossible. That’s why I’m waiting on my SSI / SSDI to come through so that I can depend on that income while going to college. I also intend to work part time to make ends meet. But that’s even more time away from my kid. I might switch to an easier major such as business because biochemistry is a really, really heavy workload. My heart goes out to those who don’t even have the same opportunities that I do, and it’s a really big problem that needs to be addressed. I can’t imagine what it’s like to live in NYC with little to no money at all whatsoever. At least in New Mexico, they do have some good supportive social services. I’m thankful for that.
Rayne @ 79
Education is important but certainly no panacea. We need access to affordable housing, healthcare and a living wage. Those have to come first because you certainly can’t learn if you don’t have a stable home environment, or a stable job or if you are sick.
And “No Child Left Behind” needs to be dismantled and thrown in the sewer where it belongs.
Keep up the good work, Deafbypill. What you are doing is noble and you will be repayed later for all of your hard work now.
Living in a capitalist society is a one-size-fits-all approach to how people function best in a society. Either you fit into a slot in the accepted system or you are headed for abject poverty. There are societies out there who figured it out. They make allowances for all the diverse levels of talent in their population and they begin with making certain everyone has the basics: food, shelter, healthcare, clothes, celebration, participation in the entire society.
We start with the premise that a nuclear family is an island unto itself. They need to make an effort to build some semblance of community of friends and/or family. It doesn’t carry over to the next generation. My network is now separate from the one my daughters are building and never the twain shall meet except perhaps at marriages or funerals. We separate again.
In some societies these life events are a continuum and integrated the entire community. I think the very values we have placed on the stand-alone-family-unit is self-destructive.
We have to look at the foundation of our society and build on that. Unfortunately, that has changed. Now it is about “the hard-core individualist” and there is no place in our society for much else. You make it “our way or the highway” - It’s poverty for you. Many people naturally live better in communal societies. All the retraining in the world won’t change this, and why should it!
Indonesia is a cesspool of poverty since industrialization was visited upon them. It just gets worse and worse. Soekarno knew this and tried to incorporate the ancient communal system his people had always lived by. Instead the two systems were incompatible (I certainly don’t know why) and communal land was privatized and the people living on it were driven out to the slums of Jakarta. The only opportunities offered to them, if at all, were working in Chinese factories under terrible conditions for little wages. In many cases the Javanese women were sold to the factories as bond servants for a period of six or seven years. For this she received food and a mat to sleep on on a hard floor. She worked from sun up until late at night.
The two systems can exist side-by-side and the communal societies have no problem accepting the people who want to live under the “self-ownership” system. However, it doesn’t work the other way around. Capitalists can’t tolerate communal societies. I certainly understand why. The only way to amass great wealth is through using other people’s labor so they need a large labor pool, very cheap.
I see no hope for ending poverty in the US unless we accept that many people function more efficiently under the communal system. I witnessed wealthy villages in Indonesia when people were allowed to keep their communities in tact. Why these were a threat to capitalists is totally beyond me. These people were labeled “Communists” and rounded up and ultimately, the communities destroyed.
Poverty is a deliberate part of the capitalist system (please don’t give me that nonsense about it not being a “system” - oh hum). Show me a purely capitalist society where there is no poverty.
Millineryman @ 45
Hey, Millinary Man! Yes, i, too, went door-to-door for Ned, and i would ask, “what would you like to say to Ned?” Most would say, “Bring our troops home,” but some would burst into tears and tell me wrenching stories of their situation! The pain that people are dealing with is horrendous and the thought that someone might care is powerful.
dmoore @ 85
I won’t take credit for another’s work. My dad is a graduate theologian. i’m a functional atheist. my boss is a frakkin genius who is a recovering jehovah’s witness (the guys parents were leaders of that cult in the 1940’s) and he and my dad have had some VERY interesting conversati