[Ron Paul with Steve Hempfling of the Free Enterprise Society. For a gallery of other Patriot favorites from the FES, see here.]
I have to admit that when Rep. Ron Paul announced his candidacy for the Republican presidential nomination, I didn't raise much of an eyebrow, even though I am a longtime Paul watcher. After all, he's run before; his 1988 Libertarian Party candidacy attracted little attention because he ran mostly from the fringe, and his views haven't changed substantially over the years.
What I didn't expect was that his anti-war advocacy would attract as many evident admirers from the left as it seems to have, particularly those who are dissatisfied with Democrats' apparent fumbling of the Iraq war issue. Certainly, the message boards at liberal outlets like Crooks and Liars who've carried factual counterinformation about Paul have been flooded with raging defenses of the man, as have some of our comments threads.
To what extent this is an illusion created by Paul's legion of True Believers is difficult to ascertain. Paul is very well organized online -- much of his support is derived from this -- and it's entirely likely the flood of "liberals" and "progressives" who are busy arguing that someone like Paul is worth forming an alliance with are, in fact, simply part of Paul's corps and they're doing their part to muddy the waters and ultimately attract new supporters in a "Third Way" kind of strategy.
And to some extent it seems evident that they're succeeding. Mostly, they seem to be taking advantage of a combination of amnesia among those experienced enough to know better, and simple ignorance on the part of progressives who've never heard of, or paid any attention to, Ron Paul previously. They hear Paul's carefully crafted antiwar rhetoric and his critique of the Bush administration -- all of which elide or obscure his underlying beliefs -- and think it sounds pretty good, especially for a Republican.
As my cohort Sara has already explained, there's a real problem with that -- namely, for all of Paul's seeming "progressive" positions, he carries with him a whole raft of positions well to the right of even mainstream conservatives.
A more important point, though, that's overlooked in all this is that Ron Paul has made a career out of transmitting extremist beliefs, particularly far-right conspiracy theories about a looming "New World Order," into the mainstream of public discourse by reframing and repackaging them for wider consumption, mostly by studiously avoiding the more noxious and often racist elements of those beliefs. Along the way, he has built a long record of appearing before and lending the credibility of his office to a whole array of truly noxious organizations, and has a loyal following built in no small part on members of those groups.
And it's equally important to understand that he hasn't changed his beliefs appreciably in the interim. Most of his positions today -- including his opposition to the Iraq war -- are built on this same shoddy foundation of far-right conspiracism and extremist belief systems, particularly long-debunked theories about the "New World Order," the Federal Reserve and our monetary system, the IRS, and the education system.
Much of this has already been documented by Sara here and here, as well as by phenry at dKos (who has more here) and by Off the Kuff, which also notes Paul's kookery on Social Security.
The Republican Party has a history of hosting right-wing fringe figures like Paul, people who portray themselves as patriotic conservatives and exploit the latent conspiracism and paranoia of their audiences well enough to win election to Congress, but who actually build remarkable records of non-achievement once in D.C., mainly because their beliefs are so far removed from the mainstream that no one pays them any mind, except the folks back home, who are persuaded by all the bellicose flag-wrapping that these characters are doing the job they want done back in Washington. I had the fortune (both good and bad) of covering three such figures from Idaho over the course of my newspapering career: George Hansen, Steve Symms, and Helen Chenoweth.
All of these folks, at various times in their careers, were publicly quoted saying things that were at the very least racially charged and insensitive -- but in the end, it became difficult to make the case that they were outright racists. What all of these incidents did reflect, however, was their willingness to adopt racist talking points and ideas and parrot them unthinkingly, which similarly reflected their susceptibility to associating with right-wing extremists of a broad variety of stripes. This didn't mean that they were racists per se -- particularly if your definition of racism includes attacking members of other races hatefully. Rather, what it demonstrated unquestionably was that they had extremely poor judgment, especially regarding whose ideas and agendas they helped promote.
The same is generally true, I think, of Ron Paul. While I think the evidence that Paul is incredibly insensitive on racial issues -- ranging from a racially incendiary newsletter to his willingness to appear before neo-Confederate and white-supremacist groups -- is simply overwhelming, it isn't as simple to make the case that he is an outright racist, since he does not often indulge in hateful rhetoric -- and when he has, he tries to ameliorate it by placing it in the context of what he thinks are legitimate policy issues. (Hansen, Symms and Chenoweth were also skilled at this.)
To be fair, Paul has written on the subject of racism and seemingly denounced it. But take a close look at his argument:
- Racism is simply an ugly form of collectivism, the mindset that views humans only as members of groups and never as individuals. Racists believe that all individual who share superficial physical characteristics are alike; as collectivists, racists think only in terms of groups. By encouraging Americans to adopt a group mentality, the advocates of so-called "diversity" actually perpetuate racism. Their intense focus on race is inherently racist, because it views individuals only as members of racial groups.Conservatives and libertarians should fight back and challenge the myth that collectivist liberals care more about racism. Modern liberalism, however well intentioned, is a byproduct of the same collectivist thinking that characterizes racism. The continued insistence on group thinking only inflames racial tensions.The true antidote to racism is liberty. Liberty means having a limited, constitutional government devoted to the protection of individual rights rather than group claims. Liberty means free-market capitalism, which rewards individual achievement and competence, not skin color, gender, or ethnicity. In a free market, businesses that discriminate lose customers, goodwill, and valuable employees – while rational businesses flourish by choosing the most qualified employees and selling to all willing buyers. More importantly, in a free society every citizen gains a sense of himself as an individual, rather than developing a group or victim mentality. This leads to a sense of individual responsibility and personal pride, making skin color irrelevant. Rather than looking to government to correct what is essentially a sin of the heart, we should understand that reducing racism requires a shift from group thinking to an emphasis on individualism.
This is, in fact, just a repackaging of a libertarian argument that multiculturalism is the "new racism" -- part of a larger right-wing attack on multiculturalism. This is, of course, sheer Newspeak: depicting a social milieu that simultaneously respects everyone's heritage -- that is to say, the antithesis of racism -- as racist is simply up-is-down, Bizarro Universe thinking.
If Paul's express views on racism are less than convincing, then the piece that appeared under his name in 1992 about black crime, as reported by the Houston Chronicle, was simply damning. The ugly smear intended by the rhetoric in that case was unmistakably racist. Paul has since claimed it was ghostwritten and he wasn't paying enough attention, but that doesn't explain why he continued to defend those views to a reporter four years later, in 1996:
- Paul, a Republican obstetrician from Surfside, said Wednesday he opposes racism and that his written commentaries about blacks came in the context of "current events and statistical reports of the time."... Paul, writing in his independent political newsletter in 1992, reported about unspecified surveys of blacks."Opinion polls consistently show that only about 5 percent of blacks have sensible political opinions, i.e. support the free market, individual liberty and the end of welfare and affirmative action,"Paul wrote.Paul continued that politically sensible blacks are outnumbered "as decent people." Citing reports that 85 percent of all black men in the District of Columbia are arrested, Paul wrote:"Given the inefficiencies of what D.C. laughingly calls the `criminal justice system,' I think we can safely assume that 95 percent of the black males in that city are semi-criminal or entirely criminal," Paul said.Paul also wrote that although "we are constantly told that it is evil to be afraid of black men, it is hardly irrational. Black men commit murders, rapes, robberies, muggings and burglaries all out of proportion to their numbers."
A campaign spokesman for Paul said statements about the fear of black males mirror pronouncements by black leaders such as the Rev. Jesse Jackson, who has decried the spread of urban crime.
What Paul never explained was that one of the primary sources for this information about black crime came from Jared Taylor, the pseudo-academic racist whose magazine American Renaissance was at the time embarked on a long series of tirades on the subject (the June 1992 issue was primarily devoted to the subject; the statistic claiming that 85 percent of black men in D.C. have been arrested appears in the August issue), the culmination of which was Taylor's later book, The Color of Crime, which made similarly unsupportable claims about blacks.
This sort of unspoken dalliance -- an uncredited transmission of ideas, as it were -- takes place all the time with far-right politicos like Ron Paul. It's one of the reasons to be concerned about any traction they may actually gain within the mainstream.
This is especially the case because there is nothing in Paul's present behavior or positions that is inconsistent with his past; he's just more astute about how he voices them. No reporter yet seems to have asked him about his belief in the "New World Order," notably.
His history is replete with far-right dalliances, and more importantly, many of his current positions are taken directly from the extremist right, and in fact embody the propagation of their longtime agenda. A look at his record makes clear how and why this is so.
His propensity for right-wing extremism manifested itself fairly early in his career, even before he ran for president as a Libertarian. One of the earlier signs of this was his association with Gary North, the son-in-law of R.J. Rushdoony, the founder of Christian Reconstructionism and himself a leading figure in the movement. North served briefly on Paul's staff in the 1970s, but their association continued well beyond that.
For instance, Chip Berlet at Public Eye noted Paul's attendance in 1985 at an "investment planning seminar" put on by North at the Los Angeles Airport Hyatt. Among the speakers were a panoply of right-wing conspiracy theorists, including Antony Sutton, Joel Skoussen, Dr. Frank Aker, Larry Abraham, and Howard Ruff, as well as Constitution Party founder (and militia sympathizer) Howard Phillips and ... Ron Paul. More recently, North could be found expounding on the wisdom of Ron Paul.
Along the way, Paul developed as one of his major ongoing themes the extremist belief that the Federal Reserve is an illegitimate authority, that our current monetary system is built upon a house of cards and is due momentarily to collapse, and that to avoid such a fate we must return to the gold standard and abolish the Fed.
Notably, Paul makes only passing reference to this at his campaign Web site:
- In addition, the Federal Reserve, our central bank, fosters runaway debt by increasing the money supply – making each dollar in your pocket worth less. The Fed is a private bank run by unelected officials who are not required to be open or accountable to "we the people."
He's much more explicit about all this in his book The Case for Gold, which takes old far-right theories about the legitimacy of the monetary system and launders them of their sometimes explicit anti-Semitism and presents them as devout and reasoned patriotism.
These arguments, in fact, have had some currency on the extremist right for some years now, having been a favorite theory of the Posse Comitatus and various tax protesters, including the Montana Freemen, who themselves picked it up from other conspiracy theorists, and then used it for creating fictitious monetary systems of their own. As I explain in Chapter 5 of In God's Country: The Patriot Movement and the Pacific Northwest:
- The Freemen justified this with an argument straight out of Roy Schwasinger's seminars: The federal government was bankrupt and illegally printing bogus money anyway, money that no longer had any basis, since the government took the dollar off the gold standard in 1971. So the Freemen were free to create their own money out of equally thin air -- not only that, but by basis of the "constitutional" nature of the common-law courts that issued the liens, their system was more legitimate than the federal government's.The alternative-universe notion that the Federal Reserve system prints "funny money" based on no real foundation has floated about on the far right for years, and is a key component of some cult belief systems like Lyndon LaRouche's. In reality, the modern international monetary system is based on the economic engine behind each kind of currency -- the levels of supply and demand that a nation produces. It is, like all economic systems, essentially a mental construct, but it has very real grounding in the work of producing goods and services within each nation. The American dollar's continuing strength abroad is a reflection of our nation's output; indeed, it is still considered the basis of most international currency rates.Those who argue that money must be based on some hard commodity -- usually gold and silver -- ignore the fact that when a currency is based on gold, the value given to gold is as essentially arbitrary as that assigned to paper currency. That is, the value of gold would rise and decline according to the value of the output behind the economic system using it as a standard. Indeed, since gold is still used in manufacturing and jewelry-making, the crossover between gold as a commodity and gold as an expression of currency had the tendency to destabilize the currency system, which is why the United States went off the gold standard in 1971.
These tax-protest theories extended to other beliefs, including the notion that the Internal Revenue Service is an illegitimate agency and the federal income tax a scam. As the ADL explains in this report, have been circulating on the fringe right for some time now, mostly in the guise of the tax-protest movement. And Ron Paul has been one of their leading figures in the past decade:
- The other tax protest movement to emerge in the second half of the 20th century had a very different history. It was an extreme right-wing movement that had its origins in longstanding conservative opposition to the income tax, which was ratified as the 16th Amendment in 1913. Conservatives objected to the progressive nature of the tax, the loss of personal income, and, later, the intrusive nature of the withholding process. Some pointed out that a "heavy progressive or graduated income tax" was one plank in Karl Marx's Communist Manifesto.Early opposition in the postwar era was relatively mild and consisted in large part of various campaigns to repeal the 16th Amendment. Of these, the most important were attempts to pass the so-called "Liberty Amendment." First introduced in Congress in 1952, it essentially tried to strengthen states' rights. However, in 1957 Congressman Elmer Hoffman of Illinois introduced a revised version of the Liberty Amendment that included a section mandating the abolition of income, estate and gift taxes. In this form, the amendment garnered considerable support among extreme right-wing conservatives as well as the budding libertarian movement.In the late 1950s, Willis Stone became national chairman of the Liberty Amendment Committee and tried to raise support for the proposed amendment through a book, Action for Americans. Stone and the Committee were able to persuade several state legislatures (eventually nine) to request that Congress send the amendment to the states for ratification, but this fell far short of the requirements for a constitutional amendment. Since then, far-right conservatives have repeatedly tried to reintroduce the Liberty Amendment in Congress -- most recently by Congressman Ron Paul of Texas in 1998 -- but without any success. Given the costs of the Cold War and the simultaneous expansion of government services in the 1950s and 1960s, it is not surprising that Stone and the Liberty Amendment Committee had little chance of success.
For much of the far right, especially the Bircher element, accompanying this hostility to the IRS, the Fed, and the federal monetary system was a similar hatred of the United Nations. And again, Ron Paul has been a leading figure in this regard in Congress; he continues annually to promote the American Sovereignty Restoration Act, which would withdraw the United States from the U.N.
Helping fuel the U.N.-bashing in the 1990s, you'll recall, was the conspiracy theory holding that the "New World Order" suggested by the first President Bush in 1991 was actually part of a larger plot to enslave the world under a global government located at the U.N. Black helicopters and sightings of Chinese troops massing on the borders were part and parcel of these beliefs.
And helping promote these beliefs, and lend them the legitimacy of his office, was Congressman Ron Paul, who even to this day promotes the "New World Order" theories -- it is, indeed, much of the basis of his hostility to the Iraq war. Just three years ago he gave an interview to Conspiracy Planet on the subject of the NWO, and this is how it went:
- EF - I've read in The New America that you are aware of the Round Table Groups, Skull & Bones, and other "secret societies" that have actively participated in the dismantling. In your essay "Neoconned", you went so far as to align the Bush Administration with Trotskyites. However, it seems that the Bush/Skull & Bones guys are perpetually fighting the United Nations, the CFR, the Bildebergs. Are the Bohemian Grove Republicans on the same team as the Rockefeller Round Table members, or are they at war?RP - You know, their rhetoric suggests they might not like the United Nations, and you hear that often. They'll be complaining about the United Nations, and this and that. But, we have to remember, when it came time to get authority and a reason to go to war, they mentioned the United Nations twenty-one times in the authority, when we voted for the authority for the President to go to war when he felt like it.I think what's going on, they're not anti-U.N., they're anti-U.N. if they don't do exactly what they want. Because there is a fascist-type faction that wants to keep the military/industrial complex going, and the oil control. Then there's the Kofi Anan-type guys. They are Socialists. They like world government.Richard Perle, not too long ago, made a statement that he thought we should get out of the United Nations. Well, I think that's, sort of, to pacify some of our supporters. They figure, "Oh, this is great. We've never had a President so sharply critical of the United Nations." But in his mind, they may well be believing they are saving the United Nations or transforming the United Nations, rather than being opposed to world government.EF - You have also written (and I have quoted you) that the U.N. is actively working to criminalize the 2nd Amendment. Who do you think the men at the top are, and what is their ultimate plan?RP - Anybody in Washington that likes big government, authoritarian government, which is most of them; deep down, the 2nd Amendment is their greatest obstacle, in the physical sense. Their other greatest obstacle is the right of free speech.
I think that they haven't been able to be as aggressive with guns because it's a healthy sign of this country. I think our people defend the 2nd Amendment better than they defend the 1st Amendment. Which is sort of a twist, I think. Twenty years ago that probably wasn't the case.
Once again, what they say and what they really want are two different things. They criticize the U.N, yet they want to build it up. They can say they support the 2nd Amendment. At the same time, they wouldn't mind curtailing that freedom. Because that is the ultimate freedom.
I kid a lot at my speeches and say, you know, I believe in gun control. I want to take the guns away from those 100,000 federal bureaucrats who own them. The Al Gores of the world, Schumer, these people…they want a monopoly of the guns. They never talk about getting rid of the guns from the bureaucrats. But, they want to get rid of the guns from the people who can't defend themselves.
EF - Going off that, Americans are still reeling from the '95 Clinton ban? How many Congressmen and Senators would you estimate are actually directly involved with these plans of destruction? Or can most claim ignorance?
RP - You know, it's weird. From outside and observing it objectively it looks like that's what they are dedicated to. Many are sort of dupes.
It's sort of like us on our side, who believe in pure liberty. We have a lot of support and a lot of help. But, a lot of people aren't as dedicated. On the left, there's probably just a few who really believe in totalitarian government completely and totally. So, it's the propaganda that you have to watch out for.
Just look at how the propaganda machine gets busy when they decide the country must go to war. It's really a powerful force.
EF - You have sponsored legislation that would get America out of the United Nations. Some Americans believe that if we must go to war, that the United Nations would be the people to fight. You have claimed that the U.N. is actively working to destroy American sovereignty. Can you list of the main bullet points that support that theory?
RP - Well, just everything they've done. Everything the U.N. does from day one, you give up a certain amount of your sovereignty. And, the worst giving up is this notion of going to war under U.N. resolutions, which we did very quickly after we got in the United Nations. There was a U.N. resolution and we sent off all those men to get killed in Korea.
Whether it's that, or the WTO that manages trade, or the IMF that we subsidize with our taxpayers' money and then they go off and play games with their special interests. They rarely ever help poor countries. The World Bank isn't any better. That's an international welfare scheme. It's sold as a scheme that's going to help poor people in poor countries. But, all these programs end up helping the very wealthy, connected corporations and banks.
Note, if you will, that the interviewers' questions are all predicated on a belief in old far-right conspiracy theories about "banking elites" [read: Jews] are secretly out to control the world -- and Paul clearly accepts those premises as valid.
The embrace of extremist beliefs also includes Paul's views on education: just as he'd like to eliminate the Fed and the IRS, he'd also like to do away with public education. He's an avid supporter of the Alliance for the Separation of School and State, and has been since its inception. You'll note his inclusion as a supporter on their Web site.
With all these extremist beliefs forming the underpinnings of his political agenda, it follows, like night and day, that he'll be exhorting like-minded extremists to follow. This is why you'll find, in Paul's record, a nearly unbroken string of appearances before various far-right groups, from the Gary North wackaloons in the 1980s to various "Patriot" organizations in the 1990s to neo-Confederate and white-supremacist groups like the Council of Conservative Citizens and the League of the South.
It's also why you'll find him coming to the defense of a variety of right-wing extremists involved in violence, from the cross-burners Sara described here, to the Branch Davidians and the Indianapolis Baptist Temple, which engaged in a similar armed standoff with authorities.
And that in turn is why Paul enjoys so much support among the far-right racists and conspiracy theorists out there. These range, as Sara has noted, from David Duke and the Stormfront folks to the neo-Confederates, tax protesters, and Birchers -- all believers in the "New World Order," all fans of Ron Paul. This shows up, for instance, in the unusual level of support that Paul enjoys among members of the Constitution Party -- Howard Phillips' far-right entity that was a significant promoter of the militia movement in the 1990s. Indeed, listed among the leading supporters of Paul's presidential bid this year are Chuck Baldwin, the 2004 Constitution Party Vice Presidential candidate, and Jim Clymer, the Constitution Party chairman.
These are the people who are empowered by Ron Paul's presidential campaign -- and the more traction he gains, especially if he can start pulling in support from the antiwar left, the more they will revel in it. Only a "progressive" who remains unconcerned about the increasing influence of the extremist right in our mainstream politics will be interested in lending Ron Paul and his supporters even a nod in the direction of the time of day.
Ron Paul may or may not be a racist -- and arguing about it is likely to end up nowhere. But what is unmistakably, ineluctably true about Ron Paul is that he is an extremist: a conspiracy theorist, a fear-monger, and an outright nutcase when it comes to monetary, tax, and education policy. The more believers and sympathizers he gathers, the worse off the rest of us will be.
[Cross-posted at Orcinus.]
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uno???
wow- my lucky day!
dos?
The daily show clip with Ron Paul was wonderful- a truth teller!!
will most likely be attacked as soon as he gains any traction
Jane!!!
tres?
so now reading the above I am thinking why haven’t the nut casers embraced him yet?
A true pleasure to see you here, David.
To what extent this is an illusion created by Paul’s legion of True Believers is difficult to ascertain. Paul is very well organized online — much of his support is derived from this — and it’s entirely likely the flood of “liberals” and “progressives” who are busy arguing that someone like Paul is worth forming an alliance with are, in fact, simply part of Paul’s corps and they’re doing their part to muddy the waters and ultimately attract new supporters in a “Third Way” kind of strategy.
…Mostly, they seem to be taking advantage of a combination of amnesia among those experienced enough to know better, and simple ignorance on the part of progressives who’ve never heard of, or paid any attention to, Ron Paul previously. They hear Paul’s carefully crafted antiwar rhetoric and his critique of the Bush administration …
A more important point, though, that’s overlooked in all this is that Ron Paul has made a career out of transmitting extremist beliefs, particularly far-right conspiracy theories about a looming “New World Order,” into the mainstream of public discourse
This could have been written about another wolf-in-progressive-sheep’s-clothing; namely, these are very similar to the tactics of Lyndon LaRouche: true Believers attacking Bush hoping to draw people in to their weird conspiracy-theory world…
Well, although I applaud Ron Paul for his frankness about Iraq, I couldn’t help but think about the first time he was on Real Time with Bill Maher. After listening to him speak, I immediately thought, “He’s the right-wing version of Kucinich.” Just remember, while he may be ahead of the curve on Iraq, on many other things he’s not even in the ballpark.
I don’t get it. As much as we’ll never go back on the gold standard, Paul is right. Going off of it has lead in part to the massive debt we now have today. The other thing I think some people are missing is, progressives will take all the help they can get in helping to end the Iraq misadventure. If that help comes from guys like Paul, then so be it. I don’t think many people want to make a long term strategic alliance with the guy. Just end the Iraq War.
Thunderbird @ 10
Yeah, that was something all right and that’s along the lines of what I was thinking as well. I know Bill kept trying to steer Mr. Paul, but he wasn’t having it. On TDS with Jon Stewart, he came across more eloquent.
Oh, Christ - I’ve got to go turn off the TV, now they’re chasing Mrs. Hilton with the cops blaring thru bullhorns (oh, sorry - there PA systems on the cars) - ‘clear outta da way!’
Thunderbird @ 10
Iraq is the only reason most Progressives like him. It is surely not a wholesale love fest. I don’t think anyway.
I have had a lot of friends and family members express support for Paul recently and my response has generally been “WTF? Do you have any understanding of what he stands for?!?”
The thing that drives me nuts is that there may be enough voter frustration to make someone like this a somewhat viable candidate.
My dad’s name is Ron Paul.
he retired from the International Union of Operating Engineers a couple of years ago.
He used to be an International rep and lived in Alexandria. He often had to go up to the hill and talk to Congress critters and staff.
He is a real personable guy and easy to like.
He noticed he would get strange and often angry looks when he would introduce himself and for the life of him could not figure out why.
It was only later that he heard of this other Ron Paul, the Senator, that he figured out why.
We get a kick out of Ron Paul for President.
I need to get him a bumper sticker.
I remember those three, Dave….hmmm, who was the nuttiest? George, Steve or Helen? This might be an all day pondering session.
Dreaming Crow @ 14,
Were they for Perot when he ran?
I’m running into people who told me they voted for Perot, and I’ll have to ask them if they like Paul.
Margot @ 18
Some of them, but nowhere near all.
Perot. What a joke. I remember being the only member of my large household to vote for Clinton in ‘92, the year that I turned 18.
OT — Just watching the thunderstorms trundle up I-71 on the radar, and it just occurred to me:
What happens to the Bush Administration if we have a Katrina-clone this year? I’m assuming the Administration’s performance would be as dismal as the last time — would it be the straw that breaks the elephant’s back?
Hi David Neiwert, thanking you for lifting the veil.
DreamingCrow @ 18
That reminds me of when I voted for the first time in 2000 (proudly for Al Gore), then had a conversation with my dad about voting, when he let it slip that he voted for Perot in ‘92. I asked him why and he said quite simply, “He was the only one that didn’t seem to be totally full of s***.” LOL!
DreamingCrow,
This county had a huge vote for Perot. One of the largest in the country, I was told (although I tried to look it up and couldn’t verify that).
Wo. I had no idea.
Thank you David Neiwert.
Hagel is another one who has gotten a lot of good pub out of (finally) being against the Iraq mis-adventure. But in every other area, he is a true blue bushie to the core, although not as far to the right as Paul.
Of course many antiwar progressives that are beginning to consider backing Paul are aware of his libertarian background and how he would work to undermine much of what the Democratic Party has accomplished in last 70 years. But:
He is opposed to the Iraq war. More importantly he is opposed to those policies endorsed by both parties that led to this war. (i.e. Does the United States really need 600 oversea military bases? Does it need to police the rest of the world? Was the war against Serbia necessary?) He has traction with those people who feel strongly on these issues.
He is the only candidate in either party who has vigorously criticized the undermining of our civil liberties that has occurred beginning with the Patriot Act, wire taps etc. Too many Democrats have been silent on these issues.
So the question comes down to this. Are we willing to risk social security in our efforts to both stop a war that could easily go nuclear and reverse the governments assaults against personal freedoms enshrined in the bill of rights.
I suppose many here are not aware that Germany had the most highly developed social welfare system in the world beginning in the 1880s and was re-established after the devastating inflation of the 1920s. Hitler never dismantled that system. If I had to choose today, I would risk social security to combat war and fascism.
BTW. I am an active member in the Democratic Party and will not likely join with Paul. But I understand those people on the left who may yet support him. You shouldn’t dismiss them lightly.
you wrote:
“They hear Paul’s carefully crafted antiwar rhetoric and his critique of the Bush administration — all of which elide or obscure his underlying beliefs — and think it sounds pretty good, especially for a Republican.”
Could you clarify this, I have no idea what you were trying to say.
As for the fact the Ron Paul is “very well organized online”…yeah, he’s got one hired hand in New Hampshire…Not exactly the juggernaut of some of the top tier. What is true is that many libertarians have no one to support, love Paul, are online, and are expressing themselves…LOTS AND LOTS of little keystrokes, like I’m doing right now.
Libertarians have loved Ron Paul for years. MOST Republicans never heard of him, ditto for most Democrats.
And, principled opposition to the way, compare that with HillObamaton and every other Republican.
It’s the war, stupid.
Of course what Ron Paul has going for him is that he has nothing to lose, and thereby can say the kinds of things that we wish we heard from more heavily-invested candidates that have more on the line. Paul is daring to say “We need to get the heck out of Iraq.” and since he’s a Republican, and he’s saying actual Republican things, we think there’s a chance he might represent that portion of the Republican party that resents having been co-opted by the Neocons.
But the enemy of my enemy is not always my friend, he can sometimes be a simple opportunist. Close examination of Ron Paul reveals that the only reason he seems to be coming from the Left is because he has gone so very very far to the Right that he’s starting to circle back.
But Ron Paul is excellent for the Progressives because he (and anyone else with courage, such as Kucinich) can demonstrate for our less-courageous candidates the value and vibrancy of PLAIN SPEECH. The Obama and Clinton campaigns are competing to gain an advantage with the voters, and the campaign that will gain that advantage is the first one that realizes that speaking plainly, truthfully, and directly will seize the attention of a population simply starving for courageous leadership.
On the other hand, I will vote for Ron Paul if he selects for his running mate Ru Paul, that will be an irresistable ticket, and America would collapse with style…
DreamingCrow @ 14
OT but saw your note about the buddy poppys and the yellow ribbon last thread. I grew up selling those (my dad was active in VFW). Haven’t been offered one or even seen them in years but always look. May the woman with the the yellow ribbon receive her just karma.
OT to dak — happy birthday! Pair of fives in your p*ker hand, huh?
All your “critiques” come down to the position of “Government is good, people are dumb sheep and need to be coddled, as are all other nations on the planet.”
Hello? How in God’s name did this become a respectable position to have?
Dave, if you’re here,
I finally got around to reading _Strawberry Days_. You’re such a tremendous writer!
Between 1973 and 1975 I worked from time to time at Main Fish Company on the Seattle waterfront, at Pier 60, then at Pier 66. It was owned by the Hikara family, who lost everything in 1942, but struggled hard after they got out of the camps and went from farming to fish trading and became millionaires. Reading your book about the eastside berry farming families brought back memories of stories many of the Japanese employees at Main Fish shared with me.
What are you coming out with next?
david - i don’t think i disagree with any of the evidence you’ve provided here… but it’s a matter of degree. our alternatives include people who advocate for such things as doubling gitmo or a possible “preemptive” nuke strike against iran.
imo, there’s a real risk of expanding our gulag system, further erosion of our civil rights, nuking iran or suffering another major terrorist attack here in retaliation for our foreign policy. … while the risk of going to a gold standard, defunding public education or further screwing up our taxes just doesn’t seem as urgent or risky.
there’s just no comparison. paul sounds safer on the big risks than all of his R and possibly some of his D competition.
yes, i get that’s an very low standard. and i’d like to have non-extremist politicians and a sane political system. but i don’t see that on offer right now.
so maybe i’m really confused, but i don’t see why we shouldn’t at least be talking with him about how to withdraw from iraq and move to a less imperialistic foreign policy. i don’t have to like any of his other positions.
what am i missing?
I was very interested in Ron Paul until I heard him say that he thought we should privitize most Government services such as Medicare, Social Security, etc.
He’s a huge proponent that we should privitize most everything except the military. We’d all like a little less government. However, I’m not willing to turn all government functions over to corporations whose main goal is to make Wall Street squee with joy every three months.
If corporations kept the public’s best interests as a goal, there wouldn’t be the miriad of laws that protect the public from them.
I’ve always considered Mr. Paul to be a delightful idiot. He provides me no end of entertainment as I watch him debate his R team “brothers”.
But, take him seriously? Nope.
Ghostman
Thank you so much for this David.
I have had a bad “feeling” about Paul, but have not been able to put my finger on what it is. You have.
And I have been really bothered by the way he is being lionized on progressive and anti-war blogs (mostly in the comments, but still), and this really *gets* me. Just because one guy says one thing that you agree with, doesn’t mean he is a “good guy.”
And I always mistrust ideological libertarians (as opposed to those who are libertarian by nature) because it is always a screen for a social and economic Darwinism (which I find repugnant) — which at its most extreme, is racism pure and simple.
David, please forgive this interruption: I recently saw this CNN blog post about Alberto Gonzales: Gonzales to face no confidence vote Monday
Just because some right wing loons claim the global economic system is a house of cards doesn’t prove that it isn’t. One point in fact is that the reason the US went off the gold standard was not for the reasons you give. It was because the US was near bankruptcy under the gold standard after expensive military adventures in Korea and Vietnam. Michael Hudson, an economist hired by the Nixon administration to predict the results of unilaterally going off the gold standard (and no right winger), warned them it would lead to exactly the kinds of trade imbalances we see today. I recommend his classic book “Super Imperialism, the Origin and Fundamentals of US World Dominance”
retirin’ in five @ 29
Yeppers!
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 35
I don’t think Dav is here or here yet…
Ron Paul must be addressed on the issues. The corpus of his work clearly shows he is not a racist.
Ron Paul is clear on his positions. His straight talk and speeches can be found here:
http://www.house.gov/paul/
In summary, he is a constitutionist.
People find him structurally appealing because 1) they agree on core principles such as a firm foundation of rule by law and not by presidency, I mean, man, 2) they agree with many of his positions and 3) they like Paul’s law-abiding, aboveboard frankness concerning positions where they don’t agree. This is why you find both progressives and conservatives standing side by side.
Yet, there are a few people who seem to be progressives who are writing long articles against Ron Paul.
OT to mods. Sorry about that. I blame Clinton.
continuing…. ron paul sound nuts about a bunch of stuff… but what he says about terrorism is right on, while the rest of the presidential candidates are nuts.
Ed*ard Teller @ 38
Is this more smoke and mirrors or will it finally force AGAG’s resignation?
Ron Paul is kicking G.W. Bush in the nuts. Of course the liberals and progressives will cheer. They don’t really want him to win they just like it when he takes jabs at our preznit.
Ron Paul would privatize virtually the entire Federal bureaucracy. The same for his racial attitudes-if you can’t compete, tough. You could call him a Social Darwinist because he thinks that the free market is the only arena that matters, and that people who can’t compete, the sick, old, disabled, minorities (either racial or cultural) should have to survive without any assistance or protection from government.
dakine01 @ 29
Yeah, I was impressed to see one myself. It saddens me as yet another sign of how little we value our veterans, actually. The VFW and other such organizations are mostly elderly people now and there’s fewer of them. Younger people just don’t seem to be interested in getting involved.
Yeah, karma’s a b**ch and so am I. I almost went up to her and told her what I thought, but I was with my family. :p
I notice that at least three times in the front page post for this thread, Neiwert makes fun of the “New World Order” issue. I also noticed several commenters making light about it.
Well, it may be that Ron Paul’s version of the NWO is kooky, but that doesn’t mean that Poppy Bush, David Rockefeller, and many others aren’t quite serious about it.
Let’s get real, folks. We regularly recognize the threat of Big Money’s hold on the Republicans and the DLC, but connecting the dots leads straight to the NWO, and all of a sudden, we think its just silly.
Well, the joke’s on us, if we don’t connect the dots right. George Orwell’s 1984 has proven prophetic in more ways than one. Look up “Confessions of an Economic Hit Man” to see more signs of the emerging NWO.
I am NOT suggesting swallowing the Libertarian kool-aid on this, either Ron Paul’s version or any other. But I am warning that the NWO business is worth looking into. Big business is now more international than national, and there’s nothing that big business likes better than fascism (perhaps dressed up as democracy), because its easier to control.
Bob in HI
Curious to see so many new people commenting. I suspect there will be more.
This support for Ron Paul, from independents and the left, is a reflection of the parched thirst of the public for some plain talk on the subject, to hear someone to tell the truth without equivocating. That is the allure. I think all candidates should take heed.
Does that mean I would support him? Of course not. I couldn’t vote for a libertarian and I would never vote for someone just because he opposes the war until I checked out his background more thoroughly. And thank you for this detailed analysis of his past positions and policy ideas.
SeamusD @ 45
i agree. but so do all the Rs and enough of the Ds (they just don’t say so). i hate these policies. but if the choice is between a person who thinks this and in favor of the iraq occupation and imperialism in general; and a person who thinks this but is against the iraq occupation and imperialism in general…..???
Thank you, David! This was needed.
Sir:
First, your attempt to smear Dr. Paul using “guilt by association” tactics is pathetic. If you and other “progressives” want to disagree with his policies, of course this is your right. But, please, stick to reasoned arguments against policy positions, rather than ad hominem attacks.
Second, you said:
Those who argue that money must be based on some hard commodity — usually gold and silver — ignore the fact that when a currency is based on gold, the value given to gold is as essentially arbitrary as that assigned to paper currency. That is, the value of gold would rise and decline according to the value of the output behind the economic system using it as a standard. Indeed, since gold is still used in manufacturing and jewelry-making, the crossover between gold as a commodity and gold as an expression of currency had the tendency to destabilize the currency system, which is why the United States went off the gold standard in 1971.
Regardless of what groups like the Freemen do or say, this has little bearing on the validity of the truly economic arguments against fiat currency. Of course gold, or any other commodity currency, is subject to fluctuations in valuation, just as paper currency is, but the big, important difference is, that while more gold can be mined, and hence enter the money supply, this process is relatively slow, requiring significant capital outlays for mining equipment, prospecting, etc, whereas paper currency can be mass-produced at will, in any amounts, for a pittance. This ability to inflate constitutes a hidden tax on savings and investment, and has a much more egregious effect on the poor and middle class, a truly regressive tax if there ever was one.
“Progressives” like you need to learn a thing or two about the true principles of economics, and liberty for that matter. Stick to arguing the issues, if you can.
egregious @ 47
egregious - curious and encouraging as well. BTW you have red-faced mail. :o(
Remember kids, No Kibbles.
egregious,
David Neiwert invented the term “eliminationism.” I’m hoping to see Don Young eliminated from politics within the next few months.
Bustednuckles @ 55
Oooh, but it’s so hard . . .
Kibbles and bits and bits and bits . . .
I should go do housework instead.
Indeed, since gold is still used in manufacturing and jewelry-making, the crossover between gold as a commodity and gold as an expression of currency had the tendency to destabilize the currency system, which is why the United States went off the gold standard in 1971.
We went OFF the gold standard because its used in jewelry too ? LMFAO thats very rich. Cogent analysis. Do yourself a favor and google 1971 gold standard and get an education pal.
I wasn’t taken in by the Paul frenzy other than cheering when he talked sense to the other Republicans on the war, but when he was asked (by Jon Stewart, maybe?) about laws that protect us from corporations and replied that of course corporations like Halliburton that are making their money off the government are bad, but otherwise corporations should be free to do anything they want.
It brought me back to one of the reasons why the Libertarian faith has never appealed to me — the idea that government is the only force that’s a danger to the individual, and that if government just gets out of the way, then everything good that government does will somehow magically happen anyway.
Ron Paul is, first and foremost, a Republican.
I was a registered Libertarian for nearly ten years. Paul became that party’s nomination for President and I registered as a Democrat.
I was raised as a Republican and maybe the Libertarian party was the methadone that weaned me away thinking of myself that way. I never voted Republican, I think Watergate and Reagan are the culprits here.
so…
Paul appeals mostly to people who want ‘Republican’ to mean something besides the Keystone Kops place it’s at. to each their own but I don’t see the point in it.
most people I know who call themselves Libertarians were right with Team Bush up until maybe the ports deal.
same as the people who call themselves “Independents” when they call in C-Span and rail against Hillary.
sure, Paul is appealling because he’s saying 2 2=4 in a field that says otherwise. I think it’s a crying shame that this should stand out so much.
next time somebody spits milk through their nose because I like Kucinich, what you wanna bet they think Ron Paul is a steadfast tin soldier?
I’ll bet you a dollar.
All you need to know about Paul is that he epitomizes a libertarian belief system in almost every aspect of his existence.
The last thing this country needs to do at this juncture is to ping-pong back and forth on the conservative end of the political spectrum between authoritarianism and libertarianism. Don’t get me wrong, getting the fascist associations with corporate culture out of power cannot be a bad thing, but not in favor of replacing it with a brand of conservatism that is just as destructive in its selfishness as libertarianism.
We need to swing back to some good old, God un-fearing, swinging liberalism…raise the freakin’ taxes to 50% on everyone who makes more than minimum wage…spend a third of that on edjumacation…a third on socialized medicine…and give the remaining third to the conservatives to ‘conserve’ after they’re done paying down their goddamn debt!
What a great post.
David, thanks for educating me about Ron Paul’s racism and his death wish for the public sector.
Blergh.
ANd welcome to new commenters at the Lake!
To comment on DreamingCrow’s statement. I am a young person. I don’t usually get involved in politics because people like David Neiwert and others, who are more interested in pointing fingers and calling people names than examining facts or history, stifle our enthusiasm and contribute to the general disdain experienced by most young people today. I am one who is interested in examining all sides of a situation. So am I a kook, because I have still found no law that says I have to pay income taxes? Am I a radical extremist because I believe the government has no right to invade my privacy? As a young person with an open mind, I am offended by you, David Neiwert. It is apparent to me that you are more interested in grouping people and taking sides than considering the facts. I don’t think the word bigot ever applied more.
cage free brown @ 61
That’s a sucker bet, mostly. ::sigh:: Kucinich is out of touch in some ways, but I have a damn soft spot for him.
Bob @47: Isn’t globalism basically a euphemism for the NWO?
2 plus 2 equals four.
when am I going to post one of these things without crapping it up?
DreamingCrow @ 56 -
i’m sorry if i’ve been obnoxious… and i’m not trying to support ron paul… but, i am trying to have a conversation - i know, it’s been one-sided and i’ll stop after this one if i don’t get any takers.
i just don’t want to hold paul to a different standard than the more “mainstream” pols.
i mean, earlier this year bill clinton accepted a prize from president uribe while gore refused to share the stage with uribe (from david sirota)… and i really, really hate uribe (how many deaths of union activists is he responsible for?)… (and i won’t even start with the hundreds of thousands of childrens’ deaths caused by clinton’s iraq sanctions)…but if clinton comes up with a good policy position, i’m still going to consider it.
selise @ 68
I deleted that comment as not feed certain people who are posting.
However, I do want to say that I’m not finding you obnoxious at all. You are calmly discussing your feelings and impressions, without making it into personal attacks.
Thanks for posting; need to finish the rest of the article. The intersection between progressives and libertarians has been on the back-burner on my mind lately. I’ve been trying to reconcile the “get off my arse” libertarian with the more progressive side.
I don’t doubt the online polling for paul is heavily skewed. I for one, as a registered dem, vote, online, favorably for Paul and unfavorably for the other repug candidates. Once the voting is conducted via partisan lines I’d wager his approval rating would decrease. Progressives have the largest online presence, no?
Free Acadien @ 52
I have never understood the reasoning behind gold having value. It is a bright shiny object that cannot feed or house. It is has no more value than cockle shells. I guess the exception would be its use in industry. Gold is just part of the game of creating value where there is none. Sort of like the value of a overly paid CEO.
When the final chapter is written on the fall of the U.S. one of it’s contributing factors will be it’s mythic simplistic belief in the “rugged individual against the world mind” set as exmplified by Libertarianism.
Bob Schacht @ 47
Thank you.
Ron Paul said–”In addition, the Federal Reserve, our central bank, fosters runaway debt by increasing the money supply – making each dollar in your pocket worth less. The Fed is a private bank run by unelected officials who are not required to be open or accountable to “we the people.”
The poster’s problem with that? The odd thing about this quirky article is that it attempts to smear Paul for addressing real issues in a serious manner. Obviously, the author has a vested interest in the status quo.
I just wanted to say that I’ve admired David Neiwert for years and I always appreciate reading his perspective on things. Yes, his beliefs match mine, to a point, but that’s not why I admire him. He usually provides a reasoned discussion full of verifiable facts, not personal attacks. This is something that we could use a lot more of in Blogistan, on both sides.
********WORLD WIDE BREAKING NEWS********
Paris Hilton ordered back to jail
LOL
I think her name should be Picayune Hilton.
Cozumel @ 74
Good grief, jail or no jail. I can’t keep up. I keep hearing different things! Aaauugghh! The suspense is killin’ me! ;^)
Mary McCurnin @ 70
It’s all John Keynes fault. He determined that the scarcity of something makes it more valuable.
Now, in a real sense, gold is pretty so that’s an attractive quality that makes it useful. It also has some rather stunning abilities with conducting electro magnetic frequencies, that’s hard to come by, increasing it’s demand (damn