There's a troubling read from the Iowa Independent today:
Jason Eness-Potter, a Democrat from Iowa City, answered his phone May 25 without expecting an extensive probe of his political views, but that’s what he got. “I was on the phone with the person for about 40 minutes” before getting tired of the questions and ending the survey, he said. From his sketch of the questions asked, we can draw a few inferences:. . . The caller identified his questions as a survey about “voter persuasion.” After asking the standard party ID questions (roughly, “Are you a Democrat?” and “Would you consider yourself moderate, somewhat progressive, or very progressive?”), the questions became more issue-specific. Eness-Potter recalls being asked, among other things, “Do you consider yourself a feminist?” Answers to the issue questions were in terms of a 1 to 9 scale.
. . . Next, the questions turned specifically to the candidates. The caller also asked the standard candidate ID question, “Who are you most likely to support in the caucuses?” (Eness-Potter identified himself as leaning towards Sen. Obama.) A standard, public poll may have finished here, but the caller pressed on with questions about Sen. Clinton. He asked first what Eness-Potter's general approval rating of Clinton was, following up with carefully worded questions about Clinton: Do you feel that she is too strong of a feminist? Do you plan to support another candidate "because [Sen. Clinton] stands by her convictions on her war vote and refuses to back down?"
Then, Eness-Potter got a glimpse of what may become the positive side of Clinton’s message: “During Bill Clinton’s administration, the Clintons helped to create 100,000 jobs in Iowa. After hearing this, is your opinion of Sen. Clinton higher or lower?” The caller went on to ask a few questions about Clinton’s campaign platform, asking whether specific campaign promises, as worded by the campaign’s pollster, make Jason more or less likely to support her.
But the survey didn’t end there. As Eness-Potter’s patience continued to wane, the caller started into the negative questions about Clinton’s opponents. Although he cut the caller off fairly quickly after he saw where the caller was headed, he recalled two questions -- one about Sen. Barack Obama and the other about former Sen. John Edwards -- that were particularly memorable.
On Sen. Obama, the caller’s question had to do with the war: Paraphrased, it was “Sen. Obama boasts of his consistent opposition to the war, but he has contradicted himself by voting for appropriation bills to fund it. Does this make you approve of Sen. Obama more or less?”
And on Edwards, the subject was, predictably, about his $400 haircut a month or so ago.
It was roughly at that point in the call that Eness-Potter excused himself and hung up –- after the caller admitted to him that the survey was commissioned by the Clinton campaign.
. . . A similar message poll that went out to voters in New Hampshire has been documented on other blogs.
Sounds like Hillary's trying to figure out the fastest way to flame out of the 2008 campaign. Anyone who's paid any attention to elections over time knows that the dynamics of a multi-candidate race make negative campaigning suicidal: Voters may be driven away from the target of the attack, but they're repelled by the person who launched it as well.
Democratic presidential-race strategists in particular should know about this rule of thumb, since Howard Dean and Dick Gephardt demonstrated it so vividly in Iowa in 2004, tearing each other apart over the airwaves and opening the field in the closing days for John Kerry and John Edwards. Any votes Clinton succeeds in peeling away from Obama with her smear tactics are likely to go straight to Edwards, and vice versa.
Even if she finds the perfect balance of mudslinging to stagger away with the nomination for the White House, Hillary might find in the fall that by turning the primaries into an exercise in mutual destruction, she's reduced her prize to worthlessness. (The Democratic primary candidates in California's gubernatorial election last year proved this through a viciously cannibalistic contest that enabled a previously vulnerable Gov. Arnold What's-his-name to sail effortlessly to a second term.)
And don't even get me started on how lamely spun the "positive" questions in that poll are. As someone who still remembers 1992-94 well enough to have a reservoir of pro-Hillary feelings, I neverless have felt ominous vibes about her 2008 candidacy, noting back in January:
. . . if she thinks she can just drift into the White House on fundraising and name recognition without any motivating reason why she is the right President for this time, she's in for a large and unpleasant surprise.Rather than trying to be
invisibleinoffensive and stockpiling cold cash, Hillary would be better off with one-fourth the money and a clear sense of what she'd do if she was President.
From the sound of these polls she's running, it seems like Clinton hasn't figured out that communicating a clear sense of what she'd do if she was President isn't just the most idealistic way to run, it's the most practical.
(P.S. I didn't watch or read about the last Democratic debate, because... well, because it's more than six freakin' months until the Iowa caucuses. For anyone who did feel like catching the pre-Broadway run, what did you think of Clinton's message?)
(Photo of Hillary wondering where the FDL left sidebar went by Larry Downing of Reuters.)
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SWOPA!
Damn, just lucky today. Two firsts in a row. Must. Buy. Lottery. Ticket.
She has too many DLC type advisors. Too bad for her.
Assuming it was the Clinton campaign calling, and not some Right-wing push poll. Not that the Right would stoop to such measures of course…
I agree that she needs to quit worrying about the others who are running and show me one damn solid reason to even think about voting for her.
So far that has been sadly lacking.
Too much triangulating will stick you in a corner somewhere, dear.
Bustednuckles @ 2
do they have ones with zeroes?
No more zeds that I see.
:(
GREAT POST…although La Hillary did well the other night…she negated anything positive she accomplished by using the ReTHUGlican talking point “We are safer now than before”….or some crqap like that….ENOUGH of her…….come on other candidates get movin!
TiredFed @ 6
Yes, in the space where it tells you what you’ve won.
Thank you swopa!
I sense Howard Wolfson’s fine hand here. And Hillary is running exactly the campaign she would be expected to run, push-polls and all.
I still think the AUMF vote and her continued intransigence will doom her. And good on Democrats for that.
oh, and SWOPA, nice piece. couldnt happen to a nicer gal. if she crashes and burns early, we may have a race.
Hillary is too close. Too close to the DLC, too close to DC consultants, too close to the special interests that support the military industrial complex, and too close to the financial services industry (Rubinomics). I am not a Clinton hater, I don’t dislike Hillary or find her cold, calculating, etc as so many of the Wingers who want her to win the nomination claim. While she is intellegent and quick on her feet, she is my least favorite Dem candidate. If she starts this crap in Iowa, I hope the blogosphere spreads the news far and wide. I have always agreed with Molly on this one: Hillary, please don’t run.
“Photo of Hillary wondering where the FDL left sidebar went” :)
Swopa nails it again. So when justice is served in the Plame situation, and we have elected a progressive Dem President, Senate, and House in ‘08 what will be your next target of investigation? I fear for them, truly.
anyone else try to get a confirmation from the campaign? the folks in Iowa tried. anyone from Hilary’s campaign out there (now that your candidate is getting blasted)?
Hi Swopa!
Thanks!
Albatross @ 4
What Albatross said.
Isn’t the sidebar supposed to shift to the right for the general election?
What a phony. She made comments in the “debate” to the effect of “It’s George Bush’s war”. Sort of a “Can’t We All Get Along” moment.
The pundits all thought she was totally wonderful, and staying above the fray, playing the front-runner role well.
’scuse me while I go puke now.
OT: Anyone else watching this hearing with the NASA IG on CSpan 3? This guy is BAITING Senator Nelson (FL type). He contests everything and is an IDIOT!!!
Hillary motivates Republic voters to vote against her more than any Republic candidate motivates those voters to vote for that candidate. We cannot afford more years of Republic rule. It would be better for the nation if Hillary would remain a Senator.
Dover Bitch @ 17
Beat me to it. Nice db!
Just the thought that James Carville is one of her key advisors makes me uncomfortable. She is surrounded by too many DLC-type political hacks. John Kerry could tell her something about listening to those idiots.
Bustednuckles @ 7
Busted think of it this way. Those of us who were here in the zed days can reminisce about old times, the way people talk about haloscan. The few, the proud, the zedders.
I think it’s a good idea. Something Rove probably cooked up to get around the do not call laws. Disguise your mudslinging as a survey. Next she’ll be dressing her campaigners up as reporters and sending them to events to ask rigged questions.
Ugh. It sure sounds like Billary hasn’t learned a damn thing.
I watched Carl Bernstein interviewed on Charlie Rose a few nights ago–it is on his website and avail for viewing and I recomend it. Bernstein is not a Hilary-hater (his mother volunteered for Bill) and is not a rethug tool, but what he writes/says about her seems right in line with this “polling” stunt.
One of the things she seems to have not a clue about is how to staff her org with decent people. She screwed up with staffing the Clinton WH in the early years, she was the one who brought Dick Morris on board, and was more comfortable with him than Bill was.
This polling story seems to bear that tendency out.
egregious @ 23
Or we can just call ‘em “lolos” in honor of the Queen of the Zed…
egregious @ 23
so now it’s UNO!
or LOLO!
AZ Matt –
This is something you might be interested in:
IndnsList.org Campaign Camp 2007
Ed Deevy @ 22
If, in fact, Carville was in Hillary’s camp (and I believe that he was), he was deep in the weeds, nowhere near the surface. After the Libby letter, he’s positively radio-active, and she needs him to drift away completely. This may actually help her campaign, the most peculiar irony of all.
The Iowa Independent article indicates that Hillary’s push polling is (1) seeking to frame her “consistency” on her Iraq war vote as a strength and (2) going after Edwards’ $400 haircut.
Stubbornly failing to admit her Iraq vote mistakes, check. Reinforcing trite Republican talking points about her opponents, check.
Hillary Clinton: always hard at work undermining the Democratic party brand for short-term political gain.
Rove me over, Rove me over . . .
If that is the kind of phone surveying Hilary has approved of, then my opinion of her intelligence & common sense took a plunge. Loaded questions like that tick people off.
AZ Matt @ 3
It goes further than that. Hillary and the DLC are locked in an embrace so tight that they are inseparable. Unfortunately, I think, the DLC is as much a reflection of her (& hubby Bill) as she is a reflection of them. And the result does not look good for either. The viral YouTube ad, the edited version of the old Apple ad (viral in the sense that it seemed contagious, and spread everywhere without anyone pushing it), rings too true: Hillary portrayed on the big screen as Big Sister, platoons of colorless citizens, and the colorful “Obama” hammer thrower who runs into the theater and slings the hammer into the supersized TV screen of Hillary– spooky. I don’t think this is the last we’ll see of that “ad”.
Natheless, Hillary did do well in the last debate. She challenged Wolfie on some stupidly simplistic questions and took charge of those situations. Swopa, you’ve gotta go back and watch it, if only for those moments.
Bob in HI
Egregious,
So true, I remember the hell-o-scan days like it was, um, last week?
dakine01 @ 19
Senator Claire McCaskill, D-Missouri, is an auditor by profession. She just slaughtered these guys by using her own knowledge of the yellowbook, which provides standards of conduct for inspectors general.
Yet another victory for those of us who worked to elect blueAmerica candidates last year. Senator McCaskill will be back for more slicing and dicing after returning from Armed Services. This is the good stuff.
Hillary has a PDA and was tired of having to screw with junk in the left hand column as she followed the Libby trial. She contacted someone in the Vast Left Wing Conspiracy who hollered through the toobz and told us to knock it off, so we complied.
Franco @ 8
Agreed. That was her low point of the evening. She’s gotta stop using Repug talking points!
Bob in HI
Great, I am starting to loathe the triangulatin’, capitulatin’ Democrats almost as much as the Republicans.
Americablog had a post about how Bill Clinton advised Kerry to throw gays under the bus in 2004 and embrace the anti-gay marriage issue.
Kerry to his credit didn’t bite.
F-Bill and Hillary. Bill can go and marry Poppy Bush for all I care and Hillary can go push the Bush and Rudy G. “we’re safer now” agenda too.
I aint voting for her.
Now more than ever.
-GSD
*xyz @ 30
Agreed, but this poll is a rather blunt tool to be used for short-term gain. She’s f***ing up in the very place where her hubby would be her best advisor. I’m starting to believe that Hil is running her own show and very badly) and Bubba has taken a powder.
Now, where and when did I hear of similar tactics?
Don’t believe everything you think.
Ed Deevy @ 22
Do you remember what Santayana said?
I kinda like the new layout.
The one thing I do miss is the different color when you posted, it made for a kind of road sign when you went back up the thread.
I’m sure Jamie is still tinkering.
Jane Hamsher @ 36
You’re hysterical
egregious @ 35
This guy Cobb is UNBELIEVABLE! Nelson is eviscerating him and he still is thumbing his nose at him…I know Nelson is a former astronaut so you know he takes anything about NASA personally and this guy is just holding himself out to be so much more pure thant anyone else.
egregious @ 35
I have been transfixed upon this hearing.
Nelson is tearing this
guyarrogant prick Cobb to shreds. He has obviously put himself in the position of obstruction justice on more than one occasion.Great caption, Swopa! — me too.
All this money sloshing about among consultants, pollsters, advisers, and admen cannot bode well for our party’s Prez race. Much as I delight in the GOP imploding, I fear for our team. The creatively destructive ways these money-oriented hangers-on will burn through the record amounts of cash are simply terrifying. Thanks, Swopa, for highlighting the first of many transgressive efforts.
Such great people, our PrezCandis. So many policy differences to haggle over and educate Americans about. So many real issues to thrash out, so many leadership styles to compare and contrast. Must it all be reduced to trivial takedowns? Please, no.
Mike @ 40
The problem with the robo-calls was that most people didn’t wait till the end where it was identified who was behind the calls.
Albatross @ 4
Anybody around with the clout to ask her campaign?
newtonusr @ 29
Carville has announced he supports Hillary for president. Edwards, Obama, Dodd and the Democratic presidential field should call on Hillary to (1) condemn Carville’s support for Libby and (2) promise not to accept the advice or support the ethically compromised Carville going forward.
This is a great opportunity for a Democratic candidate to confront Hillary on a very ethically clear issue. Who will be first?
And remember that Hillary used Geffen’s comments to score political points against Obama a while back. Hillary is not above the tactic of tying comments of an opposing candidate’s supporters to the candidate himself.
Jane Hamsher @ 36
Gotta love it!! Jane won’t even cut HRC any slack.
To those telling it like it is here about Hillary, good job. But we need to rid the Democratic party of the DLC. That’s a main target of my wrath. Among one or two others.
Loo Hoo @ 48
Why would the reich-wing do this kind of push poll? They want HRC as the Dem nominee. Doing this won’t get her there.
Interesting story. Particularly because Republicans have a history of spoofing Democratic messaging in a way to aggravate voters. I would not rush to judgment on this one. There are too many Republican talking points in that one.
This is worth some investigative journalism before sowing seeds of discontent among supporters of Democratic candidates. I’m not prejudging the results of that investigation; it might well be from the rockbrains in the Clinton campaign. But it is good once in a while to get a reality check before going all nuclear.
**xyz gets a double amen from me for both of his/her comments.
House vote to recognize Lumbee native American tribe of NC cruising to an easy victory with about 1/3 of Republicans also voting yes.
Probably the tribe has nothing worth stealing, and will actually receive funds from BIA, which is why BIA didn’t want them to get recognition. It will be a net drain on all the hundreds of billions [trillions?] they have stolen from other tribes. Ooops. Shhh!
*xyz @ 49
This is an EXCELLENT idea. I hope they all do.
The more Hillary goes off the rails, the better the chance that Gore enters the race, so other candidates my be a little conflicted about driving Hillary away. A bit of a pickle for all of them, or most of them.
I want Gore to run for pres, and Dodd for Sec of State!
Greetings;
It is possible these questions were worded so that a favorable result can be presented.People who advise candidate can have interest in poll result not only as a means to gather data but also as a feedback for ideas implemented on their recommendation.
Sen Clinton’s “I understand terrorism ’cause I’m a New Yorker” schtick is stomach churning too.
Heckuva job.
-GSD
Breaking at Raw Story:
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/....._0607.html
Two leading Democrats on the House Judiciary Committee wrote to Vice President Dick Cheney today and urged him to recuse himself from any internal proceedings on granting former top White House aide I. Lewis ‘Scooter’ Libby a pardon.
snowyegret @ 18
Loo Hoo, I left you a question at the bottom of the last thread.
egregious @ 55
That is interesting! Must be why the Dem from No Caroline said he HAD to leave the NASA hearing go vote (he said he was a co-sponsor of the bill).
Jane Hamsher @ 36
Well, now, that makes sense! I’ve tried accessing FDL several times via my “smart phone”, but was defeated by the difficulties of navigating the frames and the scroll bars, so I gave up. I’ll have to give it another try.
Thanks,
Bob in HI
egregious @ 55
Jack Abramoff is weeping.
-GSD
Obama doesn’t exactly light my fire either.
*xyz @ 59
Sounds like bait!
BTW, I was not suggesting that Carville was uncommitted, but that I don’t know for a stone fact that he was participating in her strategery. Just that it seemed likely, given shit like this poll.
Woodhall Hollow @ 25
Bob Somerby has different take on Bernstein (it’s below the JokeLine segment).
Badwater @ 20
I totally agree with this!! I wish more Hillary supporters would get it.
There’s also the issue of the lack of enthusiasm among Dems for Hillary; a lot of people will stay home. Many of us may reluctantly vote for her to keep the Repubs out, but I think there are also a large number of independents & “waivering Dems” who may just stay home.
Last time I made this point here, I got personally flamed by a Hillary supporter.
TarheelDem @ 53
Why would Republicans want to do this so far in advance of the election? Don’t see how there could be any benefit for them in a fake push poll.
Bob Schacht @ 63
We’re still fiddling with it. I’m afraid PDA browsers require special tweaking and we don’t have anyone who does that. If anyone has any expertise on that front, lemme know.
She is desperate, cornered into running in Iowa after the exposure of the memo advising her to sit Iowa out. She needs the polls there to improve or the momentum of perception will change toward Edwards and Obama (and, dare I say, Gore) every time a new Iowa poll comes out. It is very possible she will not have a victory in the first four or five contests and the tight primary timetable will then work against her very fast.
Sen. Clinton’s strategy rests upon delegate counts in the big states, but that strategy is vulnerable to a sea change where the race appears to be between two others. Push polling at this point is a high-risk, high reward strategy that would make sense for Biden or Richardson (but it’s not Richardson’s style, to his credit, and Biden doesn’t have the luxury of money.)
This is a knuckleheaded move that will backfire. It might work in a bigger, more transient state, but it won’t work in Iowa. She forgets these are cacuses where people actually discuss their votes. Ham-handed tactics will cause undecideds to run–not walk–to some one else’s corner of the room.
ifthethunderdontgetya @ 67
The “inauthentic” point is, in my opinion, the least interesting thing Bernstein had to say–even though I agree with him. I don’t think she is authentic. And it does matter to me that she hid the fact that she flunked her law boards and never told anyone, not even her friends. Not as bad as DUI, but certainly inauthentic, when we have all been led to believe that she is a full fledged lawyer all these years.
She has Carville, who thinks Libby should walk free.
Isn’t that -alone- sufficient to oppose her candidacy?
Enough with the Republican trojan horses.
Look, I’m a 55 yr old feminist who wants to see more women in public office. I should be among her primary supporters. Yet I’m not. Yo HRC people you are missing the very people that should be the center of your campaign.
GSD @ 38
GSD, do you have a linky?
I totally agree with egregious (@73).
Oklahoma kiddo @ 51
Absolutely!!!!
Nelson is relentless. He is incredibly well informed. Thank god for some real oversight–finally.
The impression here is that Clinton represents what’s wrong with my party. And that would be the DLC. Get rid of this outfit. Hillary and Lieberman have strong ties to this little group.
I’ll go Gore!
*xyz @ 59
Like that will have any impact at all. Remember, Dick does everything in secret.
The Lieberman campaign taught me so much last year. Everyday the Leiber-lessons help me when discussing Hillary and Mark Pryor with other AR Democrats who just think everything is peachy since their vote will be in the D box.
(Que up watertigers head banging cartoon)
Swopa — How do you know the call came from the Clinton campaign? This sounds like the tried and true Rethuglican phone call game plan to annoy people so much they turn away from whichever Democratic candidate they are pretending to be.
By the way, I’m no fan of Hillary and have zero inclination to vote for her, but this sounds suspicious to me…
Woodhall Hollow @ 77
HOW did this guy get his job? He is trying to contest everything Nelson is asking him. It’s like if Nelson asked him if a murder had occurred if a body were found with three bullets in the head, he’d say, “no, in my judgement it’s a suicide”
Although in this case it may be career suicide…
eg at 73 speaks for me
y’all prob’ly already know this, but…
Kelvin Sampson, who left the Sooners last year to take over the Hoosiers, is a member of the Lumbee…
there is a tribe of apaches, the Lipan, who were kidnapped and enslaved, en masse, by the Comanche in the 1830s from th east slope of the southern Rockies, whereupon (after being marched across Texas) they were sold to white plantation owners on the Sabine River, which comprises the Tx/La state line for some part of its length…
anyway, the Lipan have a long-standing cause in the BIA to gain recognition, even though they aren’t any longer associated with their ancestral homelands…
fwiw/fyi
dakine01 @ 82
He’s a friend of Abu’s according to earlier testimony. He was hired to cya for everthing. Its a mindset–a banana republic mindset. It was HIS turf, he is the king and he can do no wrong.
He even bragged to a AUSA that he would go over his head to Abu if he wanted. Fortunately the AUSA told him to go right ahead, and that it wouldn’t change a thing!
Speaking of Immigration, check out Mark Fiore animated cartoon HERE!
I was, and am looking forward to a woman as president. Hillary Clinton you let me down. Much more importantly, you let this country down. I am so disappointed in you. I am sad.
egregious @ 73
Wow, egregious, I guess we must be twins separated at birth (except I’m a few years older). I totally agree.
I say again. I will support the nominee of my party.
Boston, the city council of New Haven,CT along with Mayor De Stephano approved an Immigrant ID card, based on the idea that people who come to City Hall for the cards are honest people. ICE raided today for the first time ever. 5 houses down from the mayor’s house. No linky, heard it on Ed Schultz, so it may be up over there.
He said the townsfolk are now all the more supportive of their neighbors from south of the border.
phred @ 81
Let’s apply Occam’s razor to this one.
–What are the odds that the Republicans are behind this push-poll?
Extremely low.
It is clear to me at least that Hillary is the Republicans’ preferred opponent in the general election for a number of reasons, including but by no means limited to the fact that she will help rally the Republican base like nothing else and that she has blurred the lines between herself and the Republican opponents on Iraq by voting the wrong way on the war authorization and refusing to admit her vote was a mistake. What is the likelihood that Republicans would meddle in Iowa to hurt Hillary?
–What is the likelihood that another Democratic candidate is behind this poll?
I’m sorry, but I just don’t see Edwards or Obama running this poll. The poll really does seem to pick at their perceived “weak spots”.
And I really don’t see any of the other Democratic candidates getting involved in this sort of thing either.
Who is left? Hillary’s team.
Woodhall Hollow @ 77
A couple ‘o words, please, on what this hearing is about? [I watched a bit, but couldn’t tell.]
I don’t think we should hate on Hillary or her campaign so much let alone any other candidate for that matter. This is going to be the dirtiest, nastiest campaign in history and this is just a hint of things to come. We all know and so do the republicans Hillary is going to get the nomination. The republican party will be out for blood like hungry rabid dogs. The two parties are going to use every means neccessary to get to the White House and they will stop at nothing. If they don’t “cross the line” sometimes they could fall short of the finish line on Pennsylvania Avenue.
Dakine01
I just googled Cobb. Before he had this job, he was an Associate Counsel to the President.
Another resume padder.
Bernstein on CNN discussing HC now.
i’m hoping the clinton polling is not really hers… that would be such a mistake for her candidacy, for the party, and for the election process.
I’m to the point of praying that Edwards wins the nomination, or Gore chooses to run.
Bustednuckles @ 34
By definition if you call it helloscan, you were there. Welcome brother.
Albatross @ 4
I’d love to see a woman president but Hilary has always seemed hinky to me.
Mauimom @ 92
Malfeasance and incompetence in the Inspector General’s office of NASA re auditing and inspections. Particularly wrt safety issues of shuttles.
*xyz @ 91 -
you make a good argument.
i confess to being pretty unenthusiastic about the entire field of dem presidential candidates….
… until i look at the republican field.
Thanks!!