(Please welcome author Chris Hedges, who is here to discuss his new book, American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War on America. As always with guests here at FDL, please be polite and stay on topic in comments and questions. Any off-topic comments should be taken to another thread. Please join me in giving Chris a big FDL welcome. JFT)
Books about the scarier aspects of the religious right are something of a preferred genre in our house. What's uniquely insightful about Hedges' book is the connection he makes between the ongoing destruction of the American middle class and the rise of the megachurch political machine. People who have been disposessed from their livelihoods and communities are prime candidates for recruitment by preachers and politicians who offer easy answers, convenient scapegoats, and both earthly and heavenly salvation. Just vote for me and give me your credit card number, and everything will be fine.
Despite his in-your-face title, Hedges doesn't toss the F-word around casually. He prefaces the book with Umberto Eco's essay on Eternal Fascism. Eco lists fourteen features of what he calls Ur-Fascism, which may be summarized like this:
- A cult of tradition.
- A rejection of modernism.
- A cult of action
- A rejection of distinctions.
- A fear of difference and disagreement.
- A grounding in social frustration.
- An obsession with plots.
- A sense of humiliation by one's enemies.
- A view of life as eternal struggle.
- An elitist contempt for the weak.
- A hero cult.
- A cult of masculinity.
- A selective populism.
- A use of Newspeak.
Hedges takes his readers on a tour through the wacky world of dominionist Christianity in support of this thesis:
Dominionism seeks to redefine traditional democratic and Christian terms and concepts to fit an ideology that calls on the radical church to take political power. It shares many prominent features with classical fascist movements . . . .
He makes a convincing case that the dominionist movement is congruent to the features of fascism that Eco describes. This is, of course, not precisely the same thing as saying that religious fundamentalists are fascists. The parallels, though, are truly disturbing.
Three points from the book were especially interesting, and are not to be found (or are not so well expressed) in other books about the Christian right. The first was about the destruction of the manufacturing class:
The loss of manufacturing jobs has dealt a body blow to the American middle class. Manufacturing jobs accounted for 53 percent of the economy in 1965; by 1988 they accounted for 39 percent. By 2004 they accounted for 9 percent.
I live in the rust belt of Ohio, so these figures shouldn't come as a surprise to me. But like so many other bloggers, I haven't worked in an auto plant or a mill and haven't seen the pink slips firsthand. These numbers are stunning; how are all the people who used to work in manufacturing coping? Hedges thinks he knows: they are succumbing to the phony hope peddled by televangelists, megachurches and politicoreligious leaders such as Dobson, Kennedy and Robertson.
The second point concerns architecture and suburban design. Hedges points to the blight of hideous commercial buildings that cluster in every city and town in America. He describes our inherently isolating suburban landscape that disconnects each house from its neighbors and its community. These, he claims, are partially responsible for the despair that drives people into the arms of the religious right. I've frequently thought that there must be a direct relationship between the amount of space--both literal and figurative--between people's houses and the propensity of the residents to reject liberalism's view of society as a web of interdependencies. Hedges shows how the yearning for connection impels people toward fundamentalist Christianity; I still think that these same yearnings could be harnessed by the the right kind of progressive movement.
Finally, Hedges is properly contemptuous of liberals who raise tolerance to such privileged status that they are willing to tolerate anything--even intolerance. Referring to this as "the paradox of tolerance," he calls upon liberals to grow a pair:
Anger, when directed against movements that would abuse the weak, preach bigotry and injustice, trample the poor, crush dissent and impose a religious tyranny, is a blessing. . . . Liberal institutions, seeing tolerance as the highest virtue, tolerate the intolerant. They swallow the hate talk that calls for the destruction of nonbelievers. Mainstream believers have often come to the comfortable conclusion that any form of announced religiosity is acceptable . . . . Most liberals, the movement has figured out, will stand complacently to be sheared like sheep, attempting to open dialogues and reaching out to those who spit venom in their faces.
I realized a long time ago that ignoring homophobia, racism and irrationality made me miserable and emboldened the people who espoused those attitudes. By showing us the boundaries of this trap that so many well-meaning progressives fall into, Hedges has done those of us who call ourselves liberals a tremendous favor.
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WELCOME!
Welcome, Chris!
Welcome to the Lake, Chris.
James, thanks for hosting this important discussion.
Chris—
Thanks for being here!
RevDeb @ 1
Thanks Jim for having me. Chris
I liked so many things about your book that it’s tough to limit myself to just one question. But here goes: one of the most interesting ideas you presented was the paradox of tolerance–how being tolerant of intolerance eventually leads to the destruction of liberal democracy. I’m wondering what the trip wire is for that, i.e., at what point should folks say that the behavior of a certain group or individual crosses the line and should be condemned?
It has been an exhausting morning for me. I preached about the “f” word today as the subject of my parting sermon with the congregation I am serving.
Is it telling that I don’t want to post it on the church’s web site but rather on my personal blog?
This is a scary word that needs to be talked about in a scary time.
Thank you for addressing it at such length Mr. Hedges.
Hi Chris, welcome. Thanks so much for being here today.
I’m curious about your theory of economic recruitment:
When people lose their jobs I can understand why they might turn to hucksters, but there seems to be a missing component. With no way to pay the bills, how do they keep funneling cash into their coffers?
Jim, As you know the paradox of tolerance is a phrase lifted from the great political philosopher Karl Popper, who was driven out of Austria by the Nazis and spent the rest of his life writing about the open society and how to protect it. The trip wire, for both Popper and myself, is when a mass movement, such as the radical Christian Right, gains political legitimacy and is able to create a parallel information system (read Christian radio and television) that locks its followers out of normal public discourse and poisons civil and political discourse. Add to this Christian schools and colleges and you are in trouble. This movement reminds me of the ethnic nationalist movements — who in the name of identity and culture — turned neighbor against neighbor and destroyed Yugoslavia.
Hello Chris,
Do you see the political influence of the religious right waning? My sense is that we’ve seen their disastrous fruits of war and bigotry, and we are rejecting it.
One of the thinks I appreciated most about the book was the use of personal story to illustrate your points.
Are you familiar with Facing History and Ourselves, the foundation and curriculum? Also with Ron Jones’ story The Third Wave?
RevDeb, if there is one thing I have learned as a foreign correspondent for 20 years, nearly all of them in disintegrating societies, it is the emotional incapacity of people to accept that the world around them is crumbling, or indeed can crumble. I thought the German film Downfall about Hitler’s last days in the bunker captured this psychological impediment well. So, keep preaching it, but don’t be distressed that few seem able to hear it. I had a great professor of preaching at Harvard Divinity School — Krister Stendhal — who always told us that if we reached a handful of people with our sermons — really reached them — then our sermon was a success. Chris
Chris Hedges @ 11
Actually this group was really ready and willing to hear it, I’ve been priming them for a while and their response was gratifying. The concern is that it is the educated few that really are “getting it” and that we continue to tip-toe around the reality that surrounds us.
Thanks for the encouragement. When I go to my next church I’ll have them set up the lawyers and bail fund—just in case. I don’t intend to be quiet or complacent about this.
Just got your book. Have read and given your other two books. I was particularly struck by the addiction to excitement and violence that you spoke of in your first book. I often sense this addiction among the “crazy Christians” - the ones who must have an enemy to feel righteous.
I’ve often wanted to ask you if you are familiar with the work of Rene Girard
Jane, the people who embrace this movement have embraced a non-reality based belief system. In short, they believe in magic, in miracles, in a world where God has a divine plan for them and intervenes on a daily basis to guide and direct their lives. They are told, and most believe, that if they have enough “faith” it does not matter if their jobs are outsourced, federal and state assistance slashed, their schools no longer maintained, they are denied health insurance…the list goes on, because God will take care of them. And these preachers count as one of the demands of God that these followers sacrifice all they have, including money for God’s instituion on earth — the church. These people are assured that by giving money — even money they desperately need — they will be rewarded on earth and in heaven. It is a cruel, cruel manipulation. And this is why, while the leaders like Dobson are dark and frightening figures, the followers are not. They are often earnest, well meaning people whose desperation and despair is being used by con artists who have made personal fortunes (Pat Robertson is supposedly worth about $ 1 billion) and now is being used to dismantle our open society and destroy our democratic state.
RevDeb, I know Facing History but not The Third Wave. I will check it out. Thanks. Chris
Chris Hedges @ 12
Though I haven’t been to Mass since the pedophile scandal in Boston that made its way to Cleveland, where I was living for a time, we had a wonderful priest at our parish in Bedford who kept his sermons to about 12 minutes or so, but were absolutely jam-packed full of though-provoking correlations between our reality and the gospel of Christ. I know he reached me every week, as well as others because we would talk about his sermons. That has rarely happened in my experience. Sadly, he had to retire due to illness.
I have read Chris’s book. I was raised in the evangelical churches, okay, drug to them - Church of God, Assembly of God, Foursquare Gospel, Pentecostal Assembly…. - converted to catholicism as soon as I possibly could.
Chris Hedges @ 15
That’s one thing that struck me about the book: the genuine compassion you have for the people who are being taken advantage of. It’s an element that is missing from other explications of the Christian right I’ve read.
chris - does the word “pimping” re fundy preachers come to mind……?
Any idea of how much of the “faith based initiatives” money is going to build these megachurches? I remember a comment made here months ago by one of our regular posters who noticed huge church complexes built in areas of the country where there is no way that the local population could have put up the money to either build or sustain such institutions. The local economies in those areas were much too poor.
Jane Hamsher @ 8
Or the likes of Benny Hinn or Rod Parsley.
hwmnbn, you raise an interesting point. There is no question that the host body of the Christian Right — the Republican Party — is in shambles. As you point out, most Americans now reject the war and appear to be sick of the corruption of this administration. But I do not believe this is the last of the movement. The engine of the movement is personal and economic despair. Until this despair is addressed it will continue to thrive. And, in fact, the despair is getting worse. The assault on the working class (something that is very personal for me as much of my own family has suffered directly from the loss of manufacturing jobs) is now accompanied by an assault on the middle class. Anything that can be put on software can be and often is being outsourced. We live in a corporate state, but this I mean a state where the government no longer assumes the traditional role in a democratic society of defending the rights of the citizens, but now defends the rights of the corporations. Until we get the government back — and don’t expect Hillary or Barak to do this — we are doomed and the movement will be further empowered. Chris
Bookwoman, I don not know Rene Girard. Who is he? What did he write? Chris
as a former fundy - you’d be surprised at how effective these preachers are at getting members to give up even the rent money to build an appropiate temple to “praise the lord”. yet when members are on the verge of being evicted there’s no help for them….
Chris Hedges @ 9
The notion of a parallel information system is one that’s recently been fascinating to me. It weaves together so many tentacles that used to seem disparate. The idea of home schooling or voucher schools where information can be controlled to the mighty wurlitzer you describe that depends on endless repetition of misinformation for its impact, and then there’s this — well, the articles of faith in the fundie world view are getting awfully complex and difficult to keep track of.
The most amazing thing is, as Digby noted yesterday, that the traditional media seems to be in denial that such a system exists.
RevDeb @ 20
That does seem to be a missing link. These people may be suffering but someone is being paid to deliver their votes.
I ran across this article on Talk To Action regarding the Hindu Right and the Christian Right, from an article by Margaret Nussbaum in the Chronicle of Higher Education.
Quite interesting.
Bookwoman, on your first point about needing an enemy — this is crucial for all fear-based movements. The Christtian Right sets up a world they do not know (such as the Muslim world) and posits that this world seeks to destroy us. The reaction to fear is always the desire to dominate. It is a nice leap and one that works well for this and all totalitarian movements. The feeding of this sense of moral superiority, mixed with this fear and desire to dominate is used to herd the masses within the movement to call for their own disempowerment. Hannah Arendt, Karl Popper, Fritz Stern, Sabastian Hafner and Canetti in his great work Crowds and Power all explain this in depth.
on the issue of the rhetorics of fascism:
it has been said–albeit somewhat reductively– that a language is a dialect with a bank and a navy.
would it be fair to say that fascism is a secular ideology similarly caparisoned?
and mussolini, the inventor of modern fascism, didn’t he borrow the architecture of its structures and institutions from the Church, long a force for ‘reaction’ in Europe?
so the affinities of religious zealots for fascism are bred in the bone, as it were, innit?
/
Chris, thanks for coming by today to talk about your book, which has gone into my Amazon cart. (click the linky at the top left, folks, to ensure FDL gets its little piece).
Do you think the theocratic elements of the GOP will seek to splinter the party if Fred Thompson or Rudy Giuliani are the nominee? Or will these elements wait for a November defeat to completely purge non-believers from the GOP? It does not seem to me that the coalition, as currently bound, can hold.
Thanks again for stopping by today.
Chris Hedges @ 28
Undoubtedly rooted in patriarchy, then.
Juslin, yes, this is the sad part. Those who are pushed out of the movement — the backsliders — become essentially non-persons. There is a terrible cruelty to this movement, although it cloaks itself in the Christian vocabulary of love and compassion. And I really think these preachers are amoral, ready to do anything to advance their own wealth and power. I guess I can live with pimp. Chris
I have not read the book. Do you have demographic research that the dispossed have turned to mega churches? I ask because our local mega church, McLean Bible Church, is where AOL founder Steve Case goes to church and where Ken Starr used to go to church. Not exactly salt of the earth.
It is worth keeping in mind that Pat Robertson is the late Senator Robertson’s son and was educated at Yale.
Chris,
To what extent do you believe the assault on the middle class is driven by FEAR?
Chris Hedges @ 22
Not too surprising, I suppose, that the economic policies of the Republicans (and certain Democrats) seem to be accentuating that despair. At the very least, they do nothing to ameliorate it, believing that it’s “the private sector” that should be doing such things.
RevDeb @ 20
I thought about that the minute I heard the phrase. You vote for me and I will funnel the public purse your way. Faith based graft would be closer to the mark.
Ot, but Christy is live on Sam Seder’s show and we are discussing it on the prior thread.
Jane, coming out of the traditional media (I spent 15 years at The New York Times) you are correct. They don’t get it. They don’t get it because they are avowedly secular instituions that, to put it crudely, think all religious people are dumb. And so they see any religious as sort of a buffoon. They are mystified as to why so many American follow them and even more mystified as to why they are so hated. The response is to try to reach out to these groups — an impossiblity. Look at Falwell’s obit in the NY Times. His own censors could not have done a better job of hiding from us the fact that he rose to power as one of the south’s arch segregationists and built his empire on message of hate and bigotry, although these targets changed from African-Americans and communists to Muslims and gays and “secular Humanists” — whatever they are. So yes, I think the mainstream press, largely isolated now from working class America, ignorant of religion and distainful of belief, have not served us well. Chris
wgg: tokin lib’rul @ 28
During my internship year, many years ago, the minister did a sermon on Kristallnacht. I did the reading. It was the “Solution to the Jewish Problem.” I did not attribute it until after I read it. The words came from Martin Luther. When I announced that there was an audible gasp in the congregation.
Yes, religious zealotry for fascism has a long history.
Alice @ 36
that would clearly be appropriate fodder for Dems’ investigative browsing…
except they’d be excoriated for pursuing the godly with a secular ‘agenda.’
and so will never do it…
imho
RevDeb, as you may know there is very little accountability for the faith-based money (all taxpayer funds) and how and where it is spent. We know it is now in excess of $ 2 billion, but how it is used has, to my knowledge, never been spelled out. I would assume they use the funds to bolster their infrastructure and base. Chris
Chris Hedges @ 38
My father always thought that was why they hated Jimmy Carter so much. He is a Christian who expects to be taken seriously. They are far more comfortable with Falwell who never expected to be respected so much as paid.
Chris Hedges @ 41
It can all be investigated. Say what you will about the federal government, it keeps meticulous records, especially where money is concerned. There is elaborate procurement and contract management software that can tell you every little step right down to who entered the data.
Chris Hedges @ 41
Money is fungible. Whatever money the feds put into marginally secular programs church-run programs frees up an equivalent amount of money to be used elsewhere–i.e., to continue building their parallel information systems.
i find the correlation btw the right-wing and the fundy church to be strange - when one reads the bible or more apt the new testament - jesus’s words - there’s clearly a progressive bent …. fundies seem to follow old testament teaching to move their members backwards - it’s definitely not the jesus doctrine
Jane Hamsher @ 25
It’s not just the “Christians” who have a parallel information system. In a way, so do we, as do the right wing. It’s all a bit troubling, but I have no idea what to do.
While we’re talking about parallels, though, I find some interesting parallels between articles of faith being increasingly complicated, fundies remind me a lot of 9/11 deniers in that regard. In their case, too, as some of their beliefs are punctured, they create increasingly complex rationalizations to explain them. There’s something compellingly similar there, in that ignoring reality seems to engender a need for increasingly complex myths to rationalize a belief that can’t stand up to scrutiny.
I guess I prefer my beliefs simple and unprovable. ;-)
Alice @ 42
Except for the 9 billion that went missing in Iraq. Somehow I would believe that a good chunk of that 2 billion will be just as hard to trace. But that’s because I am a cynic ;-)
Tokin l’brul, well, the early church was a despotic institution and certainly ritualized and codified effective forms of control. I would look at Robert O. Paxton’s Anatomy of Fascism, for, as Paxton points out, there is no real ideology to fascism — unlike communism. Fascism is more a series of actions, a form of behavior. It is why I began my book with the 14 points of eternal fascism as compiled by Umberto Eco. Mussolini started out as a socialist — as did Hitler — who then went on to disempower the industrial class, create the corporate state, defanging labor unions in the process. Fascism is never pure, as Paxton points out. It, unlike communism, always builds alliances with traditional conservatives and industrialists, alliances that are often uneasy. I see this in the Christian Right and the neo-cons. The neo-cons have no time for religion, other than as an opiate to keep people quiet and submissive. You see the tension over immigration and it is interesting that Bush sided, angering his base in the Christian Right, with the corporatists. Totalitarian movements owe a lot to the church, certainly, but modern totalitarianism, especially in an age of total war, is a distinctly modern invention. Chris
Very glad to have Chris Hedges here to discuss American Fascists. I am waiting for my copy to arrive and cannot wait to read it.
Here in what used to be the heart of unions, the home of the automotive industry, good paying secure jobs actually worked as tool by which the fundamentalists could work on the blue collar population. While jobs and pay were good, workers spent less of their time organizing to protect themselves; they spent more time concentrating on pet issues, like gun control and abortion. They began to vote not in sync with the interests of their unions, but on single issues — we call them Reagan Democrats, in my neck of the woods. All the while their safety nets were being chipped away by the same people that offered to prevent gun control and stop abortion, at a time when it was already clear a sea change was underway in manufacturing and that jobs would go wherever labor was cheapest.
There was more than this going on, though; the unions were not respected by their own members because of infighting and corruption, making it more difficult to listen to union leadership.
By the time the unions’ rank and file began to come to their senses, it was too late.
In my county there are city neighborhoods that were vibrant and busy during the seventies, populated by second and third-generation blue collar folks. Now as much as 75% of some neighborhood are for sale or abandoned. There has been a steady stream of white-collar flight for the suburbs, increasing the disconnect between people with capital and those without (as I think about it, I can’t name but two people with a white collar job in this city any longer…).
I’m hoping that Chris’s book will provide a few more pieces to this puzzle so that we can start to rebuild in the wake of the socio-economic and political hurricane that slowly worked over this state for the last two decades.
juslin @ 45
As Chris Hedges points out in this book, there are at least a few bits in the New Testament for right wing folks to hang their hats on. To me, it’s as much a case of them everyone picking the parts they like, and ignoring the parts they don’t.
IANABS (Biblical Scholar, that is).
Hi Chris, I was wondering what you think the future of the Republican party will be like?
The immigration debate has shown a split between the party between big money folk looking to exploit cheap labor alongside a more bigoted or manipulated wing. Do you think this debate (or other events) could be a wake up call to many of these people to the fact that the Republican party does not remotely cater to their real interests?
juslin @ 45
I’ve seen bumperstickers: “Jesus Was a Liberal.”
The Dems in Congress, imho, are about as likely to launch investigations into the allocation and distribution of Federal funds by ‘faith-basd iniatives’ as the coast guard is to being able to refloat the titanic.
hunh-unh…
juslin @ 45
More like the “jus’ pay me” doctrine…
Here’s the Mormon Temple in San Diego. Regular Mormon folk can’t attend services, but can only go there to be married.
http://www.ldschurchtemples.com/sandiego/
Chris Hedges @ 15
The Third Wave is also known under the title “You Will Do As Directed.” It’s in the Facing History book and also on line under the title The Third Wave.
It’s a 1972 classroom experiment that the teacher stumbled into as he tried to answer the question of how the German people could not have known what was going on around them. I assume it is a true story and very frightening as I can see it happening very easily today.
Juslin, I agree. I grew up in the church. My father was a Presbyterian minister and my mother, who was a professor, also went to seminary. I graduated from divinity school, although I was not ordained. And becuase I am Biblically literate — unlike most of their critics — I am a little more attune to how they misrepresent and distort the Bible to fit their dark ideological agenda. There are passages in the Bible — look at Leviticus or parts of Exodus or Paul — that are morally indefensible. And these passges that talk about hating homosexuals or blessing war and genocide form the core of the message of the Christian Right. The Rapture, as many of wyou probably know, is not in the Bible. The word itself is never mentioned. And while these people talk about acculturating American society with the Christian religion they have done the opposite. They have acculturated the Christian religion with the worst aspects of American capitalism and imperialism. They have fused Christian iconography and language with the language and iconograpy and language of American nationalism. I saw this in the former Yugoslavia, Iran and in groups such as Hamas and it is toxic and dangerous. Chris
James F. Trumm @ 50
I’ve got the t-shirt. I do have to be careful where I wear it though.
Rayne @ 48
I hope so, too. The area I grew up in, while it benefits from being near New York and Philadelphia, used to be a vibrant manufacturing area. Now it’s a land of diminished expectations. I can’t really speak to whether dominionist Christianity is taking hold there, but I wouldn’t be too surprised if it were.
Jane Elliot’s ground-breaking and frightening studies with nebraska 5th graders will make yer blood run cold.
Jane, you make a good point. These people yearn to justify faith through a complex and bizarre pseudo-science. In this they are a distinctly modern movement. They know they can never go back to the pre-modern era when the Bible alone was enough. And so we get the Creation Museum and creation science and intelligent design and fake studies that prove abstinence works, etc. The Nazis did the same thing with Eugenics to justify their weird racial theories. And the more thay are assaulted by the rational world the more their own theories take on a twilight complexity that baffles the rest of us. This is because this movement cannot deal with mystery. It needs and yearns for certitude, which by the way is not a form of faith. Chris
wgg: tokin lib’rul @ 59
Interesting link, but I don’t see anything about fifth graders.
Rayne @ 49
This is similar to what I have seen in Virginia, minus the union element. The white middle class began to be receptive to this during the sixties, when they were economicaly secure, but when their social structures were being challenged. By the time they began to come to their senses the factories had already moved overseas.
Chris Hedges @ 57
Welcome Chris, I confess (ha!) that I have not yet read your book, but I plan to. My father was a minister and I consider him to be my own personal fascist. But I never heard of the Rapture until TDS made fun of it a few weeks ago. I thought it was some snake-handling speaking in tongues wacko thing.
How widespread is this belief in the rapture? It sounds like 70 heavenly virgins for jihad…
To me, these Pat Robertson types seem more like Pharisees than folks who found the light. Especially considering the above comments from juslin who state they abandon their own poor in need. Smacks of vampirism & exploitation to the max.
Cujo359 @ 58
I wouldn’t be surprised, either. Grand Rapids MI is a hotbed of Dominionists — I give you Dick DeVos, recent gubernatorial candidate, whose family and corporate empire is in the top 20 donors to the RNC and Bush/Cheney, also brother-in-law to Blackwater CEO and founder Erik Prince. Cannot figure out how the Van Andel-DeVos Amway/Alticor came to replace the furniture industry in that part of Michigan; I should do more homework on this.
And then there’s Rep. Pete Hoekstra within a stone’s throw, reflecting the extremely conservative Dutch Calvinists.
Wouldn’t be surprised to find one or the other variant in your neck of the woods, maybe with a different ethnic origin.
I haven’t read the book nor the comments here at the lake but I do want to make some points that may or may not have been made;
presontt bush was a fascist, he was a Nazi supporter, Prescott Bush (father of George 1) made the majority of the bush fortune financing the war effort of Hitler himself, he and his partners along with Averell and Roland Harriman.
this maggot was even relieved of his assets with the Union Bank under the “Trading with the Enemy Act”.
he was an enemy of the state, worse then a nazi sympathizer he was a nazi enabler
“the patriot act” looks like it was pauperized from Hitlers “the enabling act”
and every bit of rhetoric about this war follows the template Hitler used for his regime
“party loyalty” above all, wrap anything in a flag and call anyone that points out their depravity, their thieving and their lies becomes “a traitor”
the “neo con” movement is fascist, they want corporations to control this government, they want the public OUT of government participation and we surely live in scary times
Hi Chris,
I bought and read your book shortly after it came out and have since loaned it to a friend, so I don’t have it in front of me for reference. It really struck a chord with me. A week or so I finished reading Michael Weinstein’s (and Davin Seay’s) With God On Our Side: One Man’s War Against an Evangelical Coup in the Military, which addresses the same issue from a different angle, and if anything I found that even more alarming. I was dimly aware of the growing presence of the evangelicals in the Services, but had not realized the depth, breadth and tenacity of their penetration. What is especially alarming is the aggressiveness of the present administration’s civilian DoD leadership against Weinstein’s efforts to expose and counter the widespread religious discrimination.
I’m curious whether you are aware of Weinstein’s work and/or had any contact or coordination with him. Perhaps there’s a way you and he could coordinate your efforts at exposing these dangers.
For anyone’s interest, below is a link to Weinstein’s Military Religious Freedom foundation.
http://militaryreligiousfreedom.org/
Rayne, much of my family (on my mother’s side) live in old mill towns in Maine. I have watched the same process. The towntowns — once vibrant when I was a boy — are now pot-holed, boarded up wrecks. The steady, decent paying jobs are gone. People work for two-thirds of what they got a couple of decades ago without benefits or health insurance. And they know now that these jobs, the good ones, are never coming back. This has foced couples to each take on jobs. But it has also led to a realization that there is little hope for their children. As these communities have fractured there has been a rise in all the ills that come when communities fall apart — crime, alcohol and drug abuse, domestic violence, broken homes, etc. And this breakdown — I think its safe to say that for these people the end of the world is no longer an abstraction — has pushed them over the edge, into the arms of the charaltans who promise them this world of magic. We live in a country where the top 1 percent have amassed more wealth than the bottom 90 percent combined. This figure alone should terrify all of us who care about the democratic state. The radical Christian Right is the political and social mutation caused by these inequities and injustices. Until we reincorporate these people back into American society — think New Deal and reversing the worst abuses of NAFTA and corporate bail out — we are doomed. Chris
Chris Hedges @ 57
Thank you, Chris.
I wish the MSM would start asking the Christianists if cheeseburgers were as sinful as being gay, but that would assume interviewers (and viewers) who had actually read the Bible.
Imagine - Rev Phelps taking out after McDonald’s.
I won’t hold my breath.
Cujo359 @ 62
that was where she started…
the site, i guess–i din’t look too carefully at it, at first–is about the seminars she directs, right?
but the work is of a piece with the zimbardo study (’71? wasn’t there an earlier one, Milgram? i fergit) about the susceptibility of people to the abuse of power and the ways of internalizing defense of it…
.
How widespread is this belief in the rapture?
Not too widespread in VA, but it is an old belief. I heard a funny story by a southern pundit about gettng lost in a grocery store as a small child and thinking his mother had been raptured. So some people are raised with such beliefs.
The Denver Drinking Liberally host and SquareState.net blogger johne send the following:
Chris –
Have you read Steeplejacking: How the Christian Right is Hijacking Mainstream Religion, or are you familiar with this infilatration?
It sounds very scary to me — how big of a problem is it?
Kirk: By sinful cheeseburgers, are you referring to the unhealthy, obesity aspect, or to the biblical prohibition of mixing meat and dairy products?
do-si-do, I never thought of the Rapture as the equivilent of the 70 virgins, but I think you may have a point. It certainly is a bizarre construct, a kind of spiritual Darwinism that sees the earth destroyed, perhaps by a longed for nuclear war, and believers lifted naked up into heaven. But I think these people DO believe it. This is why it is so frustrating to argue with them from a rational persepctive. They never hear it. But we can’t hate them or look down on them for this. Rather, we have to recognize that we as a society betrayed and abandonded them. The best way to blunt this movement is a massive anti-poverty campaign, jobs, good schools, health insurance and a government that again regulates industry on behalf of its citizens. I am aware of how difficult this will be and do not even predict it will happen, but I think it is the best route to save us from despotism. Chris
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Talk2action.org does a lot of writing about the IRD, the folks who have been infiltrating the main line churches for a long time in order to split them over the wedge issues. The IRD has been very effective in doing so.
That blog is the “go to” place to learn about the right wing nuts, what they are up to and how to counter what they are doing.
i’m no bible scholar just spent years in church til i recovered my own mind … most fundies are followers of apostle paul who seemed to hate lots if people - women gays etc wasn’t so kind to all this ostentation the modern chirches have - favored home churches at least to my reading of paul…
Chris Hedges @ 67
Thanks, Chris.
I wonder whether you have any comments you’d like to share about the possibility that the political right actively sought to co-opt the religious right as a tool to support their causes. Personally, I believe the lynchpin is the Heritage Foundation (and Brent Bozell in particular), encouraging the use of non-profits to attack the left by focusing on issues while barred from supporting specific candidates. But reading Rick Perlstein’s Before the Storm didn’t fully bring the fingerprints or footprints into view for me, although his aggregation of the political right’s history was solid. ??
i live in Western Pennsylvania near the Ohio border and would like to point out… in a not self-righteous context… since Jane asked, how do folks who lost those good jobs support themselves now?
From talking to locals, e.g. at the barber shop, i have discovered the reality of what i call ‘white man’s welfare:’ many many of them are sustaining on disability checks, particularly veterans of the Vietnam conflict.
The irony is that conversations with such people often turn to defamations of the lazy people on welfare (hidden racism) and illegal immigrants (ditto). It never occurs to them that they are supported by a slightly more sophisticated version of “the dole.”
Again, not intended to be ironic or unkind–just realistic.
I’ve only just started reading your book, Chris. Just looking through the ToC, though, my eye fell on two that I can’t wait to get to: The Cult of Masculinity and God: The Commercial.
I’ve thought of those two forces in particular, hypermasculinity and hypervenality, as deadly to a free society. Given the punch of Biblical certitude, and they’re frightening indeed.
Chris Hedges @ 61
Some smart-ass commentary I posted the other day over at Salon.com’s article about the Creation Museum:
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Two Cheers for Uncertainty
Hastie & Dawes have a chapter in their book “Rational Choice in an Uncertain World” with the heading “Two Cheers for Uncertainty.” The point therein being that perfect, comprehensive certainty would make this corporeal life essentially meaningless. Think about it.
Science is always at a problematic forensic disadvantage with respect to refuting morons like these Christiabanists because the latter admit to no uncertainty, e.g. from the AiG “Statement of Faith” -
Fundamental to science, however, is a recognition of intractable uncertainty, and consequent proper humility in the expression of findings.
My advice to all of these cartoon-intellect crybaby dramatist clowns: Look, since you already know it all, and since this world sucks so bad in light of its persistent, irritating, ghastly cohorts of queers, questioners, and assorted secularists, DRINK THE GODDAMN KOOL-AID EN MASSE AND MOVE ON TO PARADISE! Belly up, I’m buyin’.
You already know how great it’s gonna be. Why wait around in this epistemological cesspool? Go to Poppa. The rest of us have work to do.
That’s one central thing separating the Islamic Fundies from our whiny, tiresome Christiabanists; the former continue to demonstrate the courage of their equally bizarre convictions daily, boom, splat.
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I’m glad I live in Vegas now – “Seven Deadly Sins, One Convenient Location” – far removed from that Tennessee and Alabama bible belt dopiness I endured for two decades.
Now, they can believe all this silly stuff all they want, but when it crosses over into trying to take over secular government power, Homie Loudly and Longly Don’t Tink So.
It seems decades ago Sinclair Lewis saw this coming when he wrote:”When facism comes to America it will wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross.”
I grew up going to a Presbyterian church. I went to an Assembly of God church in Ohio for a couple of years and heard about the Rapture for the first time.
The dates of the hymns were all right around the 1920s and teens, if I remember right. I read that there was a boom in revivals, fundamentalism, etc. right around then.
Is this what we’re seeing now? Hard times = fundamentalist churches?
Perris, George Bush is a minor, unimportant figure, a front guy for the fusion of the Christian Right and the corporatists. he has re