
Many progressives and anti-war activists were dismayed recently when Joe Sestak joined forces with Rahm Emanuel, Steny Hoyer and 83 other Democrats and all but 2 Republicans to pass the Emergency Supplemental Funding Bill last week. That vote, obviously, raises the question: does he belong on the Blue America list?
Unlike Chris Carney, who hid behind his staff and shameful Republican talking points when we asked him about deceptive votes, Joe stepped forward immediately and asked to talk to our community. He isn't apologizing; he wants to engage in a discussion about why he voted the way he did and how that fits into his ideas for disengaging from Iraq. Tomorrow's session should be... interesting.
Last year Blue America endorsed Admiral Joe Sestak for Congress and he beat crooked Republican Curt Weldon, an incumbent of two decades, in Pennsylvania's 7th CD, 56-44%. One month before the election Blue America hosted Joe at Firedoglake for a q&a and we raised $13,500 for him from 815 members of our community. Congressman Sestak will be back to tell us what he's been up to since we last talked with him this Saturday at noon (EST).
Progressive Punch rates every single member of Congress based on how they vote. If someone was progressive on every roll call they would get 100 points. If someone was reactionary on every roll call they would get 0 points. The lowest score is 0.39 for Doug Lamborn the extreme right wing kook in Colorado's 5th CD who beat Blue America Fighting Dem Jay Fawcett last year, 59-41%. The best score is 99.21 and that belongs to Brooklyn freshman Yvette Clarke. Here are the voting scores for the 2 dozen most progressive freshmen in Congress:
* Yvette Clarke (D-NY) 99.21
* Hank Johnson (D-GA) 98.83
* Keith Ellison (D-MN) 98.82
* Mazie Hirono (D-HI) 98.03
* Peter Welch (D-VT) 97.25
* David Loebsack (D-IA) 96.86
* Steve Cohen (D-TN) 96.48
* John Sarbanes (D-MD) 96.48
* Michael Arcuri (D-NY) 96.09
* Betty Sutton (D-OH) 96.06
* Paul Hodes (D-NH) 95.70
* Kathy Castor (D-FL) 95.29
* Joe Courtney (D-CT) 94.92
* Carol Shea-Porter (D-NH) 94.92
* Albio Sires (D-NJ) 94.72
* Bruce Braley (D-IA) 94.53
* Phil Hare (D-IL) 94.53
* Steve Kagen (D-WI) 94.53
* Chris Murphy (D-CT) 94.51
* John Yarmuth (D-KY) 94.51
* John Hall (D-NY) 94.07
* Joe Sestak (D-PA) 93.75
* Jerry McNerney (D-CA) 92.58
* Tim Walz (D-MN) 92.58
No one in Congress has a 100. The highest scores of any non-freshmen belong to Raul Grijalva (D-AZ) at 97.92, and 3 congresswomen in the 96 range, Barbara Lee (D-CA), Janice Schakowsky (D-IL), and Linda Sanchez (D-CA). For sake of comparison, Nancy Pelosi has a 93.58, Maxine Waters has a 93.26, Barney Frank has a 92.95, Henry Waxman has a 91.94. Gene Taylor (the Mississippi Democrat who votes most frequently with the Republicans) has a 49.71 and the Republican who votes most frequently with the Democrats, Chris Shays has a 31.09. Mean Jean Schmidt has a 3.58 and Marilyn Musgrave has a 2.53.
The first piece of legislation the admiral-turned-congressman, by then a member of the House Armed Services Committee, wrote and introduced when he got to Washington was H.R. 960 (co-sponsored by fellow freshmen Carol Shea-Porter and Steve Cohen), “Enhancing America's Security through Redeployment from Iraq Act.” It mandates the end of funding for the occupation of Iraq after December 31, 2007. When I spoke to Joe on the phone yesterday, in preparation for our live blog session tomorrow he emphasized to me his adherence-- backed by a consistent voting record-- to a "date certain" end to the occupation of Iraq.
Many progressives and anti-war activists were dismayed when Rep. Sestak joined forces with Rahm Emanuel, Steny Hoyer and 83 other Democrats and all but 2 Republicans to pass the Emergency Supplemental Funding Bill last week. That vote, obviously, raises the question: does he belong on the Blue America list?
Unlike Chris Carney, who hid behind his staff and shameful Republican talking points when we asked him about deceptive votes, Joe stepped forward immediately and asked to talk to our community. He isn't apologizing; he wants to engage in a discussion about why he voted the way he did and how that fits into his ideas for disengaging from Iraq. Tomorrow's session should be... interesting.
If you'd like to prepare, here is Joe Sestak's entire congressional record and here are the relevant parts of a letter he sent to an antiwar constituent complaining about his vote for the Supplemental:
My position on the Iraq War has been consistent since I placed my name into consideration to become your Congressman. I have always demanded a withdrawal of American combat troops from Iraq by the end of 2007, which was the goal of the first piece of legislation I sponsored. I voted for the first emergency supplemental bill (HR 1591) that included a timetable for withdrawal. President Bush subsequently vetoed that bill. However, in light of my thirty-one years of military experience and firsthand knowledge of military operations and logistics, I must heed our collective obligation to support the American and coalition personnel (military and civilian) who are bravely serving in harms way. They are our sons and daughters, our sisters and brothers, our neighbors and friends. They deserve our full support as long as they serve. Sen. Jim Webb of Virginia, a Vietnam veteran and a noted opponent of President Bush’s war policy, as well as the father of a soldier currently serving in Iraq, voted in favor of the supplemental funding bill. I agree with Sen. Webb and many other administration critics that we must pursue a sound strategy leading up to what will be a very difficult troop withdrawal; however, I will not sacrifice our military and civilian personnel to make a political point.I am aware that my vote on this important issue goes against the sentiments of some of my most ardent supporters. You must understand my decision in the context of the life and death struggle our forces and civilians are currently facing in Iraq and Afghanistan. I have enclosed an editorial that I have written to explain my position more fully, and I will continue to work to end our involvement in Iraq’s civil war.
And here's the May 27th OpEd Joe wrote for the local newspapers in his district, in the hope of letting his constituents know why he voted the way he did:
Last week, Congress voted on an emergency supplemental bill for Iraq and Afghanistan. It was not what I wanted-- it did not contain a date certain for redeployment that I had previously voted for and President Bush had vetoed. But it provided the resources our troops needed to be safe until September. I could not deprive the men and women of our armed forces those funds required for their security until they redeploy.I saw combat in Afghanistan and Iraq. The first was a just war; the second, a tragic misadventure. And since the day I announced for Congress, I have never deviated from what I said that day: a date certain to redeploy from Iraq within a year is the only viable strategy that will change the incentives for the political leaders of Iraq-- along with Iran's and Syria's-- to change their behavior and work for stability and an unfailed Iraqi state.
But I've run the Navy's $67 billion annual warfare program, and I know that annual defense money is only so fungible between defense funding accounts, and the account called "operations" will run out in July. The practical result is an America unable to then provide its servicemen and women what they need to defend themselves in Iraq or Afghanistan. I also know that redeploying out of an area of conflict is the most challenging of military operations, and to do it safely for our 140,000 military personnel-- and the thousands of US civilians in Iraq-- will take at least six months.
After 31 years of military service, I will never place at risk the lives of those America has sent overseas to fight for us. They are our sons and daughters, whose safety is our paramount concern. I therefore voted to ensure they had the means for their security, while we continue to work to end this conflict by a date certain. I will never vote to have our service members' safety be caught between Congress and a President who we might hope will blink. "Hope" is not a strategy.
This war is not President Bush's war; it is America's war, true whenever its sons and daughters are fighting overseas. I therefore have great faith that Americans across the political spectrum will increasingly come together after this vote and work for an end date of what can no longer be an open ended commitment in Iraq-- not just for our service members' security, but for America's.
I have worked, and will continue to work, in Congress for a date certain to redeploy within the year. I have never deviated from this strategy, not even in this vote to ensure our sons and daughters are safe until then. This is because an established end date where the United States will no longer be in Iraq is the only remaining U.S. leverage to force the Iraqis to assume responsibility for their nation, and make the difficult political compromises that will stop the civil war we are currently refereeing.
There is no military solution to this civil war... it will take the reality that we will no longer be there to contain the worst of instability in order for Iran and Syria to stop their destructive efforts, fearful that instability will then flow over their borders. And it is this reality of our redeployment that will force the Iraqis to stop pursuing their personal fiefdoms in their government ministries while we provide them political and military cover, rather than their working for political solutions.
I know; when Senator Hagel and I spoke with Prime Minister Maliki and other Shia and Kurd leaders, we heard them disparage the proposed re-Baathification legislation to permit the Sunnis to be a more viable part of the government-- just after our Ambassador, Ryan Crocker, and General Petraeus stated it was of the utmost importance. Perhaps of even greater importance, redeployment changes Iran's and Syria's incentives to work toward stability: they do not want to face the flow of 4 million refugees dislocated in Iraq coming across their borders, or to be in a proxy war in Iraq between what are now two "allied" nations, one primarily Sunni (Syria) and the other Shia (Iran).
There is another strategy to bring about a stable Iraq, one where we will not be in Iraq and where we can begin to address our other security concerns that have been negatively impacted abroad and at home by our involvement in Iraq, beginning in Afghanistan. It is a date certain which begins a true exit strategy so we can begin to apply our resources elsewhere in the world: where terrorists are and where emerging nations, such as in the Western Pacific, have growing political and economic interests, and therefore influence, that may challenge ours. And it begins to repair our army at home, where not one unit is of sufficient readiness to deploy elsewhere in the world if a conflict were to erupt.
This is why I remain committed to working on a date certain for redeployment and why I submitted legislation within weeks of being sworn-in that called for a date certain by the end of this year, with no funding thereafter for U.S. forces within Iraq- but it must be a redeployment where we ensure that our troops can get home safely. Therefore, my vote had to do with their safety and we must now work to have the next vote be about America's security.
It seems to me that he is saying that Bush, by vetoing the appropriations bill that Congress passed (because it included a timetable for withdrawal) is threatening to put our military personnel in grave danger. To me that says "immediate impeachment" and a treason trial. Like I said, we can get into all this with Congressman Sestak tomorrow. And, by the way, he's also been leading the battle to fix No Child Left Behind and has a number of other issues to talk about.
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Martinis!
Hiya Howie!
Hey Howie, how goes the fight?
I’m counting on the community to figure this all out.
howieklein @ 4
Few things in this life are black & white(unless you are George Bush).
AZ Matt @ 5
OK… I see it like that too
howieklein @ 4
As we are continually reminded by the realities of Congress, NO one is 100% pure on every topic. Sometimes we must trust the judgement of folks like Adm Sestak. While keeping a close eye on them at all times of course.
Apart from the fact that nothing in the bill had any bearing on the ’safety’ of the troops that was not already beyond the ability of anyone to allay, i guess it’s as good an answer as any…
./
Thanks so much for this post, Howie — it is a supurb start to a conversation. And I have to say that Joe Sestak gets points from me for beingwilling to stand up and have the conversation with everyone like a grown-up instead of hiding from it — that is what adults do, and so kudos to him for that.
I do hope that we have a good conversation with him about this tomorrow. And I really appreciate all the work that you put into this to make it happen, Howie — very much appreciated.
It should be quite the thread and discussion. I don’t know if I’ll be able to be around for it, but if not, I look forward to reading it afterwards!
With Joe’s firsthand experience in “military operations and logistics,” I’d love to hear him speak out more on the notion of funding a war for five years on “supplemental” appropriations. To me, that sounds like those who are running the war have no sense of planning, and must do it all on the fly.
Similarly, if Joe is so committed to a “date certain,” he could be just the person to reach out to those dems who want us to leave but are afraid of offering a firm date. I’d love to hear him make the case for this again and again and again when someone stands up and says “that just emboldens our enemies.”
It’s one thing when someone like my rep — Pete Stark — say something like that, and it can be dismissed as just another Bay Area liberal. But Sestak . . . not so much.
Thanks for the heads up, Howie!
I guess the thing that would anger me the most was if it was a political calculation which it doesn’t seem to be. So I will trust his judgement.
He comes across as a person who thinks farther ahead than I do, which is a good thing.
At least he can put his reasons forward and not hide behind his staff.
I can fathom his reasoning and not find fault.
Bush is ultimately responsible for what happens to our troops and has thrown them repeatedly into the breach with no clear mission or end game plans.
If Sestak has a withdrawal strategy then let us get behind it to stop the endless bloodshed.
Hi Howie — great to see you.
It’s been suggested that some Dems voted for this atrocity because Bush would literally leave our kids stranded in the desert and starving. This could very well be the case: he’s shown nothing but contempt for servicemen his entire adult life.
But we should have forced him on the issue. Instead, we’ve become complicit and they’re gonna use it against us. Come September, if the Republicans decide it’s no longer politically useful to warmonger, they will bill any decision to withdraw as their own.
Tactically useless and strategically catastrophic.
Howie, thanks for all your great work.
This is a really off the wall idea, but maybe one alternative way (different from the main thrust of all your great work) of influencing Steny Hoyer type Dems is to target some of the worst of worst in the GOP? Even if we replace a sub-human, what-would-Jesus-do-dying-on the-cross-for-our-sins-neocon with a moderate Republican, one who actually believes in the rule of law, it might help improve the level of discourse in DC?
It actually might be easier in some races, with some groups of FDLers, to raise money to unseat
someone we really really dislike? Sorry if some iteration of this has already been suggested.
Interesting to find out that the two new Democratic congresspersons are rated 85% and 88%. It is funny because the Repugs are running adds stating they vote with that scary Pelosi 100% of the time.
And anything is better than Old JD Hayworth and Kolbe. BTW…. little factoid….. old Hayworth has a local radio show 4-7pm on KFYI … the drive time slot to spew his hate and lies.
Christy,
Are you saying that the adults haven’t been around in regards to this administration? *g*
Is anyone here as excited about Mazie Hirono as am I?
katymine @ 15
Glad I don’t live within range of that signal.
Gonzo live C-Span at 2pm Eastern time. Any idea what’s up??? I just logged on and haven’t read any comments yet. Sorry if you’ve already discussed this. Off to read comments and posts…
Christy Hardin Smith @ 9
Thanks Christy. Although I didn’t agree with Rep. Sestak I have tremendous admiration for him and I respect the way he’s looking at this. It’s different from my way of looking at it but I don’t doubt his sincerity. And I always admire someone willing to walk into a caveful of lions. Carney wouldn’t even get on the phone!
Steve Cohen is also very interesting. He is such an improvement over Harold Ford. I hope the people of Memphis know this.
John Casper @ 14
I’ve talked about other groups who work that way– People For the American Way, for example, as well as HRC and some unions. It isn’t a “wrong” approach, but in the end I’d rather we spent our money on burying them than making them more viable. Besides, I’ve noticed that even their most insane far right extremists– like Mean Jean– get challenged not by moderates but by kooks even further right!
pointecoupeedemocrat @ 17
Yes
Hey, Howie,
Adm. - now Rep. Sestak - is becoming the most fascinating freshman congressman to me. Reading his statement above shows far more knowledge about how our system does and doesn’t work than one usually sees in the US House. I’ll try to stop by tomorrow.
Things about to go over the edge up here for the Ted Stevens crime family. Thanks for continuing to cover the issues as they pop out at us.
Sestak gave one of the most masterful TV appearances I can remember seeing when he was on “Meet the Russert”
http://www.crooksandliars.com/.....-the-wall/
Still don’t understand his argument that the troops safety was in doubt. If they kept sending Shrub a “date certain” bill, Sestak is saying that the Humvees would literally run out of gas in the desert as they were trying to leave?!? Don’t think so, but maybe he knows something we don’t.
His voting record and what he says make me think he knows what he’s doing, but time will tell. If the date is not certain, there is one other certainty: 100s of more US troops will die, and 1000s of innocent (and some not so innocent) while our Congress plays their games. Interested in hearing Sestak defend this certainty tomorrow.
howie, i agree with your interpretation, but i feel it is tucked into the letter. those who voted for the bill have to discuss the quandary in which they felt they were placed as a result of the president’s obstinance. all of the statements i have read from those who voted for the supplemental have failed to do this, in my opinion, and i believe it is a grave error.
pointecoupeedemocrat @ 21
I hope so too. The extremely corrupt and reactionary Ford machine is planning to knock him out with a primary. That’s why I put him on our BlueAmerica page so fast.
howieklein @ 23
good. i am glad to here, as i notice she has not received a lot of media attention. she and cohen both replaced dlc centrists, and i really want to hear more about their politics and their positions on various issues. i know this is a sestak thread, but their names crowned the list with which this diary was broached.
howieklein @ 27
good. thank you. we need a loud and brash progressive in the south, and cohen is the only one who is vicariously expressing everything we believe. thank you.
howieklein @ 4
thanks for the heads up, howie.
if there’s any chance that i could be able to participate productively, the psych prep time is a necessity. i am so angry about this.
There’s lotsa bad framing in Congressman Sestak’s words; this one really bugs me:
Those who voted otherwise than you (the majority of your party, sir) were NOT voting to deprive troops of anything. Please don’t frame your own party’s opposition to an illegal occupation in this way.
Also:
Neither did the majority of your party, sir, and I resent your speaking of their votes as if they placed anyone at risk. The only risk-placer in Washington is the President — please direct your rhetoric at him, and not at your own party.
Not wild about this, either:
This war IS President Bush’s war, Congressman: it’s a war of choice we were lied into. Please don’t assume responsibility for this war. You were elected to oppose it in all its forms. You must press your party leadership to bring a bill to the floor to end it; did you inquire of them why they did not?
As long as we are debating “the safety of our troops in wartime” the warmongers (of which Admiral Sestak is not one) will win the argument. We must debate “bringing home our brave forces who won the war, now caught in a brutal civil war.”
Also, I’d like to hear Democrats call it what it is: an occupation. You can’t win an occupation; you can’t lose one, either. Let’s step out of the win/lose frame — and talk more about bringing troops home safely from the occupation of Iraq.
(My two cents, in nickel form)
Ed*ard Teller @ 24
I did a little run-down of the father and son crime team, Ted and Ben Stevens, at Down With Tyranny yesterday. I’m reading a great book on Alaska, The Yiddish Policemen’s Union, so I have my eyes more open than usual about what’s up there.
TeddySanFran @ 31
i share these sentiments, teddy. and i notice these arguments are repeated by those who supported the supplemental. the focus has to be on the obstinance of the republicans in congress and of the unwillingness of the president to consider viable alternatives. the language must be edited in order to reflect these facts.
howieklein @ 32
the author’s writing studio abuts my back yard in Berkeley.
very cool .. .looking forward to hearing from him …
So…blackmail works. Holding the troops hostage works. I don’t get it. If we do give idiot in chief the money, the troops stay. if we don’t, the troops stay. If “progress is made” they stay. If “progress isn’t made” they stay.
Congress continues to try and reason with irrationality. This is a disaster. Pull the plug on Bush’s murderous mess. Now.
Thanks Howie, and bravo to Joe Sestak for coming aboard tomorrow to have a dialogue.
btw, no word from Courage Chris Carney. Time for a registered letter this weekend, I guess.
pointecoupeedemocrat @ 28
Actually, my congresswoman, Yvette Clarke topped the list.
Regarding the continuing funding (via supplementals) I still want to know where everyone (including Sestak) stands regarding the September “review” of the (now-completed) surge. I thought that that was the best chance of roping in enough republicans to get this thing done.
-MS
punaise @ 34
Do you know him well enough to get 25 signed copies for us?
You voted to give George Bush carte blanche in Iraq for 4 more months. Your vote did not protect our soldiers but keeps them in danger in the middle of a senseless, unjustified, and stupid war. You gave Bush the dollars to get several hundred more of our soldiers killed and even more maimed. And you think that’s supporting our troops? I am so tired of all these equivocations. The crux of the matter is this: Voting to get more of our troops killed is not supporting them, period.
Michael in Park Slope @ 38
i do not know a lot about her. please tell us about yvette. i do know she signed the letter asking the presidential candidates to attend the fox news debate. and while others might dismiss her on those grounds, i am still interested in her and her politics. please tell.
You will NEVER hear me say that this is America’s war.
It is, has been, and always will be BUSH’S War — based on lies, spun out of minds obsessed with chasing the dragon of democracy imposed from above, romancing the Rapture, and Armageddon-ward bound.
If we manage to keep the Idiot-in-Chief from nuking someone before he’s impeached or his term expires it will be a major miracle.
I look forward to this conversation tomorrow. In the meantime, I would recommend to anybody here Glenn Greenwald’s post on the false presumption that the troops will be left to suffer with a lack of funding.
TeddySanFran @ 31
Brother, please spare more nickels. (youtube link)
do-si-do @ 36
With characters like Bush and Cheney nothing will work short of impeachment. And, when I brought that up to Sestak he pointed out that there’s not a chance in the world the Senate would go for it.
Howie, I made sure Ed*ard Teller saw your piece yesterday.
He is all over that situation but it is a good piece so I linked to it here.
howieklein at 10:06 am
Thanks very much for the excellent response.
howieklein @ 39
we’re barely acquainted, but I’ll look into it.
I would like to know too how Joe sees this Septemeber review and if it an actual measure for him, or just something to be swept under the rug. The administration as been hedging on this since they said there would be a report to congress. Is it feet-to-the-fire time?
Hugh @ 40
Hugh, I hope you’ll be back here at noon tomorrow to repeat those words to Rep. Sestak. I’d like to hear how he responds.
Dover Bitch @ 43
perhaps sestak can discuss the logistics of transferring funds from one account to another, as he cites this as justification for his vote.
TeddySanFran @ 31
Awesome rebuttal, tsf. I sincerely thank you for this.
pointcoupeedemocrat:
Since she is a freshman, I don’t know much about her either, ‘tho I did vote for her. Her district covers much of Bedford Stuyvesant and Park Slope here in Brooklyn; those two constituencies automaticaly make her a progressive. But until seeing her credentials above, I guess I didn’t know just how much. I will attempt to find out more, possibly over the weekend.
-MS
This is great, Howie, thanks for setting this up. Rep. Sestak deserves respect for being willing to come here and talk about this and I hope people will show up and discuss the matter frankly with him. It’s a very good opportunity.
OK, this is the one that jumps out at me. THis is straight out of Bush’s playbook.
So, we’ll sacrifice our military and civilian personnel to make an ego point? Screw that.
Dover Bitch @ 43
That’s a very good post to bring up. Anyone who hasn’t read it certainly should, and I think the points Glenn brings up are central to what this conversation is about.
It’s his loss.
John Casper @ 57
:~)… our respective cats are on excellent terms.
Howie,
Great work in getting Sestak to come on over and have a dialog. Obviously, with my current churlish attitude I will sit it out, but will be cheering everyone on (including Sestak) for having an actual dialog about stuff that matters. Very rare.
Thank you.
While we are on the subject of framing, let’s talk about failure vs losing. Losing means we got beat, failure means the team bus went to the wrong stadium. It cracks me up when the dickhead Rethugs talk about a surrender date, they are so pathetic.
pointecoupeedemocrat @ 51
As Glenn writes in that post, the real question is why is the public under the illusion that our troops might be stuck without bullets or armor? The answer is because these politicians keep saying it.
Another question is why Bush has to ask for emergency spending in the first place?
TSF #31,
I don’t always agree with you, but man, you hit that one out of the park!
howieklein @ 50
I’ll copy them and hopefully post them verbatim tomorrow. No more free passes.
Twisted Martini @ 60
Surrender, War-o-thee
Rep Sestak alluded to playing political games with troops/troop funding. This is also right-wing propaganda. Iraq War is now being played like Viet Nam was played - how can we get out and not look like we lost. Death in Viet Nam continued for many years so that political leaders wouldn’t look bad.
Bushco has said that the next guy will have to clean up his mess. Any continuance of Bush’s war helps Bush pin the blame on the next administration. The dems are Charlie Brown kicking at Lucy’s football again. Lucy always pulls the football away and tricks him because Charlie is a dumbass.
TSF 31
You nailed it.
You have to appreciate the experience and viewpoint of Sestak. But we lost the message and the vote on this one - it was a lose/lose.
Apologies to all for Colorado’s fault in this loss: my Rep. Lamborn is a certifiable moron as Howie noted. And the perpetually and profoundly timid Ken Salazar raised the white flag to Bush even as the veto ink on the tougher bill was still wet.
Michael in Park Slope @ 53
Not really. The Congressional Black Caucus spans the entire ideology, from real progressives like Yvette and John Lewis (GA) to reactionary whores like Al Wynn (MD) and David Scott (GA)– not to mention Harold Ford. Even solidly blue minority districts don’t guarantee a progressive represenentative. Which is why we have to watch closely.
do-si-do @ 55
This is a disturbing trend along with Webb’s vote. These great white hopes elected as Democrats from among the military brass seem to reflexively resuscitate this bullshit, and even believe it.
does anyone else notice a pattern in terms of talking points?
the albany projectkirsten gillibrand:
jason altmire
i do see a few similarities between these statements. what do you think?
howieklein @ 68
I don’t have a lot of respect for the CBC, especially in light of recent events. But I DO know my C.D.; it’d be impossible for a non-progressive to be elected here. BTW, not only Bedford Stuyvesant: Park Slope is one of the bluest neighborhoods in all of NYC.
-MS
It seems to me that he is saying that Bush, by vetoing the appropriations bill that Congress passed (because it included a timetable for withdrawal) is threatening to put our military personnel in grave danger. To me that says “immediate impeachment” and a treason trial.
I have a very hard time disagreeing with that one. And with the president having said that if Iraq asks us to leave, that we will do so, while still refusing to listen to his own Congress and constituents, it seems that this vote was badly botched, in that it was such a perfect opportunity to force the president to frame himself as a war-monger.
TeddySF @31 said it all quite well, and I’d ask unanimous consent to join in his comment.
P.S. Given what Bush said about what he’d do if the Iraqi’s ask us to leave, I guess the only thing we can be certain of is that they will never be given the opportunity to have either a national referendum, nor a parliamentary vote on the issue. Otherwise, he’d have never said such a thing.
Michael in Park Slope @ 53
Speaking of Brooklyn congresscritters, it is worth mentioning that the elections do not occur in November, since repubs don’t run here. I am just over the line from Yvette’s district in the 10th of Edolfus Townes (who did vote “no” — but shows up to actually vote less than half the time). Very often (always???) the winner of the primary is backed by the very powerful (and in many ways very corrupt local dem party machine). Both of the primaries in the 10th and 11th congressional districts were quite wild this time, as there were so many people running–which usually benefits the party-anointed candidate.
howieklein @ 45
This is the point when I go completely off my rocker…We have the tools. We have the technology. doesn’t anyone in Congress have hair on their peaches?
OK I’ll stop. I know the Ladies of the Lake and visitors are worn out. As am I. I’m trying really hard to behave.
Oh, and a pat on the back, Howie, for staying so focused during the fires a while back. Pretty gnarly, dude. Peace.
Zappatero @ 67
And now Salazar seems to be involved in trying to sabotage Angie’s run for congress and getting a conservative staffer of his own to run against Musgrave.
OT–
Hey punaise: Didn’t know until last night (watching the S-Bee) that you’re a bedbug. Never thought to look it up. Mon Dieu! I thought you made it up.: pun-a l’aise… per exemple.
RonD @ 62
I second that! Friggin’ awesome.
TSF, maybe you should write speeches for Pelosi or something? How can we get your talking points into Congress?
Biodun @ 76
I thought it was made up too. Like pun plus mayonaise. Like a spread of puns. It’s punalicious.
And oh, I’m glad my Congressman is third on the list.
do-si-do — Don’t misunderstand what I said in the prior thread: political disagreement on the merits and the facts is not only appropriate but altogether welcome dialogue. Invective launched at each other or at guests because they don’t think exactly like you do or like you want them to think? THAT is a horse of a different color. There is a social distinction there, but an important one — and that is where the friction arises. But discussion of ideas to get to the bottom of things or to debate facts or to truly have a discussion — and not just hurl unsourced talking points at one another? That’s why we are here, isn’t it?
I met Joe Sestak durring his campaign at a friends house/fundraising party. I donated to his campaign. The man struck me with his absolute sincerity. He an my congressman Patrick Murphy just seemed like people who wanted to get after getting the troops out. P Murphy voted against the supplemental and J Sestak voted for it. I pounded his congressional email and heard a we will get back to you answer. I am really looking forward to this tomorrow. I just want to know why he thinks defunding was dangerous to the troops, I did here the military doesn’t have a withdrawl plan.
brendan @ 69
I am disturbed his vote, but I don’t want to give up on Webb yet. He really impressed me during the campaign as a person of integrity, and his own son is over there in that hellhole.
I wish we could get HIM on here….I really would like to know what he is thinking. I know he supports a diplomatic solution, but that just ain’t gonna happen with this hit paraade of a**holes.
I’ve been interested in Hank Johnson after seeing him in action during a committee hearing. He’s second on the list and comes across well when speaking. Would like to see him and Ellison speak more for Democrats.
Interesting tidbit from Congresspedia:
“Johnson and Rep. Mazie Hirono (D-Hawaii) became the first Buddhists to serve in Congress in January 2007. [5]”
OT:
Broder answers my question:
New York: Your column about the bipartisan effort to change the President’s position on the Iraq occupation, being led by Lamar Alexander and Ken Salazar made no mention of the administration’s recent announcement that the plan is to retain a large force occupying Iraq for “the next 50 years.” At the Hill this morning, Mort Kondracke writes that this legislation is designed to provide a foundation for that permanent occupation. Did this issue not come up in your discussions? Is John Warner aware of these plans?
David S. Broder: I cannnot speak for Senator Warner, but the Iraq Study Group plan envisaged a residual American force in Iraq, training and fighting alQaeda, for an indefinite period. So that would not be inconsistent with what Alexander and Salazar are proposing.
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Talk about burying the lede. He thinks a new “bipartisan centrist” direction is more important than the a permanent occupation of Iraq.
Excellent point, Howie.
i have remarked before about my skepticism of “lifers’” conversions.
there’s no WAY a retired ADMIRAL (my, god, ya gotta stay in and stay clean and suck up like a GODD8MN MOFO for 25 years just to be considered for fleet rank) is gonna become a ‘progressive.’
the usual ‘lifer’ approach (i dunno about slestak in particular) is to have tactical objections to the way ‘the job’ is being done, without any DEEP criticism of the reasons ‘the job’ was necessary to begin with…
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