
[As always with guests here at FDL, please be polite and stay on topic in comments and questions. Any off-topic comments should be taken to the prior thread. And with that, I welcome Anthony Romero -- please join me in giving him a big FDL welcome -- CHS.]
The individual circumstances are ever-changing, but the underlying refrain remains constant: in the age of terror, the fight for upholding civil liberties must be a constant one, and it must be vigilant, because the Bush Administration's track record thus far has not been one of upholding the rule of law over whatever they deem to be politically exploitable or expedient in the moment. Not by a long shot.
Enter In Defense Of Our America: The Fight For Civil Liberties In The Age Of Terror. I honestly could not put this book down once I started reading it. The stories contained within are from ordinary Americans and others caught up in an extraordinary moment in our nation's history.
But, more than that, they are stories of that moment of decision when these people went from passive recipients of treatment by our government to active citizenship in fighting for the very rights for which our nation's founders had fought so many years before. And so many of these stories show the nuance and the very humanness that is far too often lacking in reporting on these subjects. This is how to tell a great story and, at the same time, illuminate the difficult and defining issues of our time.
And it is in these moments, these personal vignettes with their catalogue of everyday details that you realize it: this could be you. At any time, this could be you.
Imagine, for a moment, that this is your legal practice:
Government intelligence officials rifled through immigrants' computers, cell phones, and address books in a bid for new leads to track al-Qaeda operatives around the world. Monitoring just one phone number allowed intelligence officers to build a database of "potential terrorists" and build a web of gossamer connections. But in FBI field offices, NSA data was viewed as a distraction in the hunt for terrorist plots. Information gleaned from the NSA program often led to innocent people or dead ends. FBI agents joked that additional tips meant more "calls to Pizza Hut." Anyone calling a suspected dirty number became a potential target. Certainly anyone calling a friend they had no idea was a suspected al-Qaeda operative would likely be targeted.As Dratel read through the New York Times article, his most immediate concern was about attorney-client privilege. Though the article didn't say specifically that attorneys and physicians were in the sweep, Dratel worried they might be. (The Department of Justice would later say that calls to doctors or lawyers "would not be categorically excluded from interception" as long as there was a suspected link to al-Qaeda and one party was outside of the United States.) More broadly, whether or not Dratel was a target, what the article made clear was that the NSA program flew in the face of the First, Fourth and Fifth Amendments -- free speech, protection from unreasonable search and seizure, and due process. There was also the chilling effect the program might have on many Americans if they even suspected that they might be on the receiving end of a wiretap. It would change the way they operate, even subconsciously....
The warrantless wiretaps should have been a wake-up call for Americans who believed they had nothing to fear from the war on terror as long as they were doing nothing wrong. That blind trust in government, Dratel said, was naive. A look at American history showed that programs launched in times of emergency always became part of the larger system and they always left the door open for abuse of power....
"...And whether I was part of their listening program or not, I knew I had to do something."
At what point do public safety and the fight against threats to our national security lawfully and acceptably intersect with an incursion into our civil rights? Is that point here? Are you comfortable with these decisions being made without any public recourse or oversight, as was done when the NSA domestic spying program was implemented while the GOP-controlled Congress nodded yes to the Bush Administration's constant dip into the well of individual liberties? Or is whatever price we pay for safety just the price we pay? Is it at all lawful for a President to unilaterally decide to refuse to follow the law? And, if not, what recourse do we have to prevent further problems?
And then imagine that you are Cecilia Fire Thunder, the first female president of the Oglala Sioux in South Dakota, and the state's abortion ban bill gets signed into law by the state's governor.
...There had been abortion ban bills before. Governors had never signed them. She assumed this time would be no different. But if abortions were outlawed in the rest of the state, even Native American women would lose access to services."I was taken aback," Fire Thunder recalled later. "The way I saw it, Mike Rounds had just signed a law as a Catholic instead of as a governor."
The law's no-exceptions clause for rape or incest hit Fire Thunder particularly hard. Rape and sexual assault crimes were considered the purview of outside law enforcement; they couldn't be prosecuted in a tribal court. When accusations of rape surfaced, the federal authorities or criminal investigators from outside the reservation came in. The response had been lackluster, at best, for more than 15 years, Fire Thunder said. As a result, rape had become almost accepted and something that was swept under the rug because it was a crime without consequences. Women on the reservation had come to think of rape prosecution as a dim possibility, like the light on a flat field, miles off.
"I was furious once I realized what the law did," Fire Thunder said. "A group of white men who know nothing about women of my culture had made a decision that children could be created in an act of violence and women had no options. I don't think God wanted the future of the human race to be created in violence. I couldn't let this stand."
South Dakota was selected as the first test case in the fight to uphold and/or overturn Roe v. Wade because they have a small population, a malleable governor ripe for pressuring to sign the bill and cheap advertising test markets. Since then, there have been many more chip-away measures taken for reducing a woman's right to choose in America. Where do you stand on this issue, not just in your heart but publicly? Would you be willing to put yourself publicly on the line to fight such a law as Cecelia Fire Thunder did? Because that may be what it takes in the years to come in order to secure an individual's right to make the choices in their own lives about their own situation, after consulting their own heart, their partner, and their God.
My personal position is that it is no one else's business -- that these people have enough to deal with after a violent rape or dangerous medical situation, and the last thing they need is some know-nothing outsider sticking his nose in where it does't belong. The life of the mother is a life as well, and far too often that is just tossed aside for so much public posturing and fundraising. It is well past time that the false prophets were called on their luxury office suites while the poor and violently abused still face the worst choices of their lives without the surrounding support that such funding could provide to reduce the need for abortions in the first place. Let's have THAT conversation more often instead of hurling sanctimonious stones, why don't we?
But it isn't simply things happening on American soil, either. Imagine that this is your father, your brother, your husband, your son:
...Khaled El-Masri was a German citizen of Lebanese birth, a father of six. When Beeson [his soon-to-be-attorney] was on vacation in Vermont, El-Masri was on his way to a holiday in Macedonia on December 31, 2003, when he was abducted by Macedonian officials and turned over to a team of CIA agents. He was transferred to a hotel room where he would spend the next 23 days in captivity, curtains drawn. The US government suspected him of terrorism. He was questioned about activities he knew nothing about and people he had never met.On January 23, 2004, El-Masri's nightmare only got worse. Several men entered the room. They handcuffed him, blindfolded him, led him to a vehicle, and drove him to another building. There he was severely beaten and his clothes were sliced off his body. Men in black ski masks placed him in a diaper and a track suit, chained him at his wrists and ankles, placed earmuffs over his ears and eye pads over his eyes, blindfolded and hooded him. He was led to an airplane (leased by US government agents) and forced to its floor, facedown. He was injected with drugs and flown to what he would later find out was a secret base in Afghanstan. He spent months in the notorious "Salt Pit" -- a secret US-run prison just north of Kabul -- locked in a small, dirty, cold concrete cell. He was interrogated and tortured.
As it turned out, this was a case of mistaken identity. But the CIA continued to hold El-Masri incommunicado in Afghanistan long after it realized its mistake. Five months after his abduction, he was finally led out of his cell, blindfolded, handcuffed, chained to the seat of a plane, flown to Albania and -- without explanation -- abandoned on a hillside at night. He was never charged with anything. Beeson and her team at the ACLU had filed a federal lawsuit against CIA director George Tenet, the unidentified CIA agents, and the corporations that owned the aircraft used to transport El-Masri.
The El-Masri case came more than a year after the pictures of torture at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq came to light. But this was different. This was a case of a German citizen whisked off the streets in Macedonia and "rendered" to a military base to be tortured by his American jailers.
Think it couldn't happen to you because you aren't a Muslim American and whatever you are doing is within the bounds of law? Think again. Read this about what happened in a small town in Pennsylvania when a religious man on the school board hooked up with a well-funded group whose purpose was to overthrow scientific theory in the name of God.
The Seattle-based organization's [The Discovery Institute] intelligent design crusade started with an article in the Wall Street Journal by a professor at a Christian college in Spokane, Washington, that focused on a biologist who was chastised for discussing intelligent design in the science classroom. The professor, Dr. Stephen Meyer, was friendly with conservatives Howard and Roberta Ahmanson, wealthy religious philanthropists, and together they hatched the idea of creating the Discovery Institute's Center for Science and Culture. Dr. Meyer is its director. Other backers include stalwarts in the conservative movement like Philip Anschutz and Richard Mellon Scaife. The Ahmansons were by far the biggest supporters of the Discovery Institute, having provided some 35 percent of the $9.3 million the science center raised from its inception. Mr. Ahmanson is on the Discovery Institute's board....What later became crystal clear was that the Discovery Institute had a very specific agenda in mind. In 1999, an internal document from the organization, known as the Wedge Document, suddenly appeared on the Internet. It described not only the Discovery Institute's goals but how the group was prepared to accomplish them. The document said that the idea that human beings are created in the image of God was "one of the bedrock principles on which Western civilization was built." People like Darwin, Marx and Freud had "infected virtually every area of our culture" and their ideas needed to be "overthrown."
And then imagine that you are a high school science teacher in that community. Could you stand and fight for science and not pure theology dressed up as pandas being taught in the classroom as Bert Spahr did? Even in a community caught up in the religious fervor stirred at the time by a long-term campaign to convert your town to the way of thinking of the tiny group of evangelicals who had worked their way onto a majority on the school board -- even as they were not close to a majority in the community?
What In Defense of Our America taught me more than anything else is that we must have an engaged and active electorate in this nation of ours. We must find a way to wake them up and get them to pay attention. For that is the only way that things will begin to change -- a collective demand. We are better than this, and it is past time that we stood up and said so.
Many of the Bush administration's post-9/11 strategies have upset the basic system of checks and balances that we learned about in fifth-grade social studies. The genius of Hamilton and Madison was to build a necessary check against abuse of power. They knew that if you concentrated too much power in any one branch, that power would lead to abuse. That's why they designed three coequal branches of government, with each serving as a check on the other two. But that delicate balance has been upset in ways large and small. We had the president's unilateral decision to use the NSA to intercept phone calls and e-mail of Americans without any judicial review or congressional approval, in violation of of the Constitution and federal law. We find portions of the USA Patriot Act that allow the FBI to seize a person's internet records with no judicial review at all. And the Military Commissions Act of 2006 stripped detainees of their habeas rights and undermined the Supreme Court's ruling in Hamden v. Rumsfeld that had restored some semblance of checks and balances. The fact that President Bush could climb back on his horse after being thrown by the largely conservative U.S. Supreme Court showed the extent to which this president was able to cudgel a quiescient Congress. And it remains to be seen whether the new, Democratic-controlled, Congress will be any different beyond the rhetoric.
Our civil liberties are fluid so long as we allow the government alone to define them for us. It is only where we, as an active public, stand up for our Constitution, for the Bill of Rights, for the rule of law, and our own rights as individuals that the true power of the American public is felt. We do so each and every time we vote. And we do so through our daily actions, and our interactions with those who are elected to represent us and who we expect -- or who we ought to expect anyway -- to live up to the fiduciary obligations that they undertake on our behalf as part of the social contract inherent in a representative republic such as ours. We are better than this, and we would all do well to live up to what we ought to be and not what we are at any given moment in our nation's history.
We are, in America, that ever possible potential, moving ahead so long as we strive to meet both our aspirations in consideration of what is fair and just, not just for the short term, but for a long time to come, and our obligations to uphold what is right not just for ourselves but for every generation that follows us.
And with that, I welcome Anthony Romero, Executive Director of the ACLU, and open the floor to questions.
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I have been looking forward to discussing this book all week. It is a wonderful read, and an important one — because it raises a number of questions that active citizens need to be asking themselves. That they are so similar to so many of the questions that the Founders were asking themselves so many years ago means that we need to keep working toward better answers. Really valuable work, Anthony, and I thank you for doing it.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 1
I’m glad to be here. and I really appreciate the interest you are showing in the book. In writing the book, I felt that we have to begin a national dialogue about what it means to be an American, what defines us as a people, and the need to stand up for our rights. Our democracy can’t be a spectator sport.
Anthony at 4 — I couldn’t agree more. Speaking of which, any particulars on the gutting of the civil rights division at the DoJ that you would like to discuss? I have found all of the information coming out about that particularly troubling given the potential for mischief on voter suppression and reversal of precedents from lack of enforcement.
I think thChristy Hardin Smith @ 3
I think the whole debate about the possible resignation of Alberto Gonzales is only focusing on part of the problem. As you point out, the Justice Department has been increasingly politicized during Gonzales’ tenure. The selective enforcement of the nation’s civil rights laws, the hostility to defending important precedent, etc. As one example, the ACLU had to pick up a case (and win it) on behalf of women janitors in NY schools after the Justice Department jettisoned the case. After Gonzales leaves, it will take us years to clean up the mess. Not to mention the need to rebuild public trust in the Department that is at all time low.
Just Amazon’d it. I’ve been wondering for a while if we on the left couldn’t find common ground with libertarians on this set of issues. I saw the audience reaction to Ron Paul on Real Time Friday night and heard Goldwater quoted this morning about keeping the religious fanatics from running our lives. I have to think we could make some magic… Libertarians have no business supporting today’s republicans.
Thank you for writing and reviewing this book. It’s in my newly shopped-out Amazon basket; I urge anyone who wants to buy it to click through on the link at the upper left. FDL gets a tiny bit when books are bought this way.
Mr. Romero, do you see this week’s discouraging vote to give the President another blank check for his Iraq Occupation as something that will cause Americans to become more actively engaged in our Democracy or, if discouraged by the DeeCee Democratic leadership’s double-talk, less?
AlexandriaCynic at 7 — We’ve seen more libertarian-minded conservatives like former Reagan DoJ official Bruce Fein and former Rep. Bob Barr of GA speak out more frequently over the last couple of years. And, to be honest, I never thought I’d be finding common ground with Bob Barr in my lifetime, but he has done quite a bit of public speaking about the need to protect civil liberties issues.
Welcome Anthony - going to order your book through the FDL Amazon link today - and thanks to you Christy for finding and recommending what is clearly an important book.
My question is will your publisher be sure to bring your book to the attention of CSpan and MSM of your availibilty to appear for book chats?
And lastly will you being doing a book tour that includes the west coast? Thank you for being here today.
Anthony — While I’m thinking about it, I know you all have done an enormous amount of work on restoring habeas under the Military Commissions Act. Rachel and I have corresponded on that issue back and forth, but I would love it if you could give us an update on how you think things are going. Sen. Leahy had a hearing last week that was encouraging, although very brief, and I’m wondering how much push from all of us would be helpful — and where the best points of leverage might be — in moving that process forward in both the Senate and House.
Hi, Anthony. Do you think Congress will continue to persue an investigation of abuses at the DoJ when/if Gonzales resigns, or will they say “mission accomplished” and call it a day? Do you think they see it as systemic abuse?
AlexandriaCynic @ 5
AlexandriaCynic:
You could be reading from our play book. There is enormous common ground that progressives can establish with libertarians and conservatives. When you get the book (and btw, thanks for buying it on Amazon — really), you will see that the first blurb inside the book is from Bob Barr. There is another from David Keene, from American Conservative Union.
One of the first things we did early in my tenure was reach out to Bob Barr and other conservatives like Dick Armey. And when Barr lost his Congressional race, we put him on retainer as a lobbyist to reach out to the Republican party.
The defense of civil liberties should not and cannot be a partisan agenda. I always say that if we let the ACLU become the civil liberties wing of the Democratic party, we will have failed.
Also in writing the book, In Defense, we were very conscious about writing a book for folks outside the true believers. I told a group of largely ACLU members at the first signing that this book was written for folks who DON’T believe in the ACLU. We hope that the stories we have picked and the straight way we tell those stories without lecturing or prejudging will help people realize that the defense of OUR America is what liberals and conservatives can agree on.
Jeez, whata meaty post CHS. Is this book a depressing read, or perhaps shines a little light on the path out of this authoritarian cult we find ourselves in the grip of.
Perhaps Anthony could answer this.
Anthony at 13 — I was especially pleased with the efforts that you all made in the religious liberties discussions. Far too often, I see the discussion being “this is anti-Christian,” when I think that people truly have no sense of what it could mean were religion governmentally sanctioned and controlled. Freedom of expression and religion is essential to it maintaining its individual tenets and beliefs, and it never ceases to amaze me how folks fail to understand the consequences for not adhering to that. I have relatives who are LDS and, honestly with all of the history of the Mormon church, you’d think they would be the first to want a separation of church and state. The way the GOP has structured their political infiltration for electoral purposes the past few years, though, that has been distorted and eroded significantly.
TeddySanFran @ 6
The Democrats will continue to disappoint us if we allow them to. The same of the Republican leadership. When the book went to print, we said that it remained to be seen whether this new Democratically controlled Congress will be different beyond the rhetoric. For instance, I am enormously frustrated at the lack of progress we have made at restoring habeas. It is a cornerstone of our democracy, and the last Congress stripped it away for a group of detainees. There has been no more egregious civil liberties violation than that — in my mind — and we need to restore habeas.
That’s why on June 26, we have a day of action in DC to restore habeas. We have buses coming from all over the country, and you can sign up for it on our website. www.aclu.org.
Let ‘em hear you loud and clear.
Oilfieldguy at 13 — Actually, I found it incredibly uplifting. We know about all of these issues because the system worked in ferreting them out — and because they had dedicated lawyers and citizens working to right the wrongs. That is incredibly motivating for me.
Oilfieldguy @ 12
It ain’t a depressing read. I promise. I’m an optimist and some of the folks you meet in the book are AMAZING. Buy it, read it, take action and get inspired.
I was wondering if Anthony could comment on the Vice President’s speech yesterday at West Point. It was the clearest indictation yet that Cheney though the Constitution and foreign treaties were for what Arnie would call “Girlie-men”. Why can’t Cheney be impeached, or called on the carpet for stuff like that? Are we really living in Ben Franklin’s worst nightmare?
It’s disturbing when the GOP attacks an opponent for being a member of the ACLU, as John Doolittle did to Charlie Brown last year. It’s done with the same twisted sneer that Monica Goodling said “liberal” at this week’s HJC hearing. I hope this outreach by the ACLU to the GOP will succeed in helping them understand that protecting civil liberties is not a partisan issue.
For authoritarians, though, protecting civil liberties is hardly worthwhile.
Mr. Romero - thanks for visiting with FDL today. Unfortunatly, I have to work this afternoon, can’t stay for the chat.
Again, thanks for visiting, and thanks for your stewardship of ACLU.
Hey, Anthony, this book looks quite interesting and, as people are commenting already, like it could cross over some of the traditional battle-lines we (or the media) draw using ideology. Are the stories chosen intentionally (and would you tell is if they were!? :)) to paint the ACLU as moderate instead of super-left?
I wanted to let all the fdl friends know that anthony is the man responsible for making the tv series, FREEDOM FILES happen. He understands media, the new forms, and how to use it to tell our progressive stories. AT a time when we know all too many heads of established organizations on our side are nervous about anything new, Anthony keeps pushing the envelope and finds new ways to reach and expand… mozeltov on the book
anthony -
thank you for being here today…
and i hope it’s ok for me to say “thank you” for our local aclu who stood up for us (in MA!), when the police were photographing people for later identification just because we attended peace vigils. the chief of police said we were a potential threat to society.
a small thing compared to what you describe in your book… but it was much appreciated.
anthony @ 16
thank you for letting us know… i will try to be there.
selise at 24 — There is quite a bit about the TALON program and other Defense department civilian surveillance programs in the book as well. There was so much to discuss — including some very moving discussions with the family of John Walker Lindh — but I thought my write-up had gotten too long already. Really, this is an amazing read. I’m going to buy a few copies and donate them to local libraries.
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 17
I haven’t seen the text of Cheney’s speech, so I can’t comment on the substance.
The idea, however, that we need to be “tough”, and “take the gloves off” (one of the chapters in the book) is not new. And that attitude, that arrogance, that conscious disregard for international norms and rule of law is precisely what got us into the mess to begin with.
In terms of impeachment, I think we have to put pressure on the new Congress to get to the bottom of some of these scandals. Like the NSA wiretapping programs, the use of torture, the establishment of secret prisons, the use of “rendition” to get information from detainees. We need to flesh out the record of the civil liberties violations that have happened under Bush’s administration. Because this government has largely secretive and tried to keep information out of the public domain.
With the information, then we can focus on next steps.
newtonusr @ 19
Thanks for coming. And stay in touch. Through our website.
anthony,
I’d just like to say Thank You for all your work.
Sk3ptik @ 20
I actually don’t think the ACLU is super left. In a lot of ways, we are “super conservative” — conserving the basic rights for all people in America. It’s true that we believe in the rights of lgbt people for instance, or for the right to choose. But we also believe in the right of Fred Phelps to express his hateful ideology. And in the past, we have defended Rush Limbaugh and Jerry Falwell.
That’s why if we can get folks to focus on what we do and why we do it, maybe they can see the importance of standing up for civil liberties.
Hi Anthony, thank you (and Rachel) so much for being here today. You have not only managed to do such valient public service for so long but bear the full brunt of right wing assault at the same time.
Does it feel like the climate is changing and that the country can be more open to what you’re trying to do? And which of the right wing narratives would you most like to knock a hole in?
anthony @ 27 and Joe Klein’s conscience @ 17 -
here’s a bit from cheney’s speech that might be what Joe Klein’s conscience was refering to:
We hear that career DoJists are horrified at what’s happening under BushCo — in your organization’s dealings with the department, Mr Romero, do you find that the authoritarian cultists hold sway? Have the loyalists been sufficiently seeded throughout the DoJ that Congressional investigations cannot root them out?
Also, do you expect a new President will abandon these exciting new Executive powers, regardless of party or prediliction?
robert greenwald @ 21
This is like a web post from my mother. Robert is a real friend, in the interest of full disclosure.
I hope to see you when I’m in LA toward the end of the month. Will call you. Take care, and thanks for the support, as always
anthony @ 28
Usually, if you have a website and comment at fdl, your name will have a link to your website. Not meant to pick at nits, but those kind of links help.
Anthony @13:
Yet isn’t the ACLU generally regarded as a liberal interest group? I agree that civil liberties should not be a partisan issue but in conservative circles the issues of “rights” generally, and “civil rights” in particular are viewed as liberal.
Welcome Anthony, and thanks so much for ACLU’s work. wrt to cases in which the Government raises the state secrets defense, are you starting to seen the courts push back on that?
Scarecrow — That’s a great question. I’ve been wondering if those cases aren’t being slowly greymailed to death as well.
Jane Hamsher @ 29
Jane,
I do think the pendulum has begun to swing in our direction. There is much more willingness to ask the tough questions — from Democrats, and Republicans, and from the press.
In the immediate aftermath after 9/11, most folks were too worried and nervous to ask the tough questions. that’s why we kept arguing that we needed to keep America Safe AND Free. Not one, not the other. Both.
The right wing narrative that drives me most nuts is the one on “compassionate conservatism”. Read the sections on Matt Limon in the book, and you will see what a farce that is.. He was an 18 year old boy sentenced for 17 years in prison for having sex with another teenage boy who was just shy of his 15th birthday. Tell me that’s compassionate…
Also, the issue of “caging” was brought up by Goodling recently. As this practice is illegal, how are the Republicans able to continue the practice with impunity?
Jane — the passages about the South Dakota abortion ban took me right back in time to when we were posting quite a bit on it, trying to get support for their ballot initiative. It was such a great story of what a few very dedicated people, willing to do the tough work, could do to change minds in their community. And reading about all of the issues that had been either swept under the rug or altogether ignored for the Native American population there? It was painful, but illuminating in a lot of ways.
Thank you for coming to the Lake, Anthony. Your book is in my reading queue; I am looking forward to reading it.
Christy says, “Think it couldn’t happen to you because you aren’t a Muslim American and whatever you are doing is within the bounds of law? Think again.” This is absolutely true; I’m aware of a case where a gentleman who owns a small business in my town made a snarky but ill-advised comment within earshot of customers and found himself taken for questioning by four men in dark suits and dark vehicles within hours of that comment. They quizzed him not only about his snarky comment, but about his family in a nearby country, even though he is a naturalized citizen. They made it clear they knew everything about him. He was later released, but the story has never made the media here; the average person in this town has no clue that merely being snarky in your own place of business and foreign-born could get you “detained”.
Anthony at 39 — The Matt Limon sections were particularly disturbing to me, as a former prosecutor. That case seemed like a blatant abuse of prosecutorial discretion, and was just appalling, especially given his functionality issues and the consent issue from the other boy. And his parents’ reaction to his homosexuality broke my heart — having had friends go through similar “you need to just get over your gay phase thing” issues. You chronicle that particular story in a very poignant, and human way — very well done.
Here is the complete Cheney Transcript of his speech at West Point.
We in the US will not be defined by his depravity regarding the Geneva Convention or the rule of law. The man is an utter disgrace.
Rayne at 42 — The fact that this sort of thing made me wary on occasion last year when we had our foreign exchange student living with us is telling of the sort of chilling effect it can have. That I could potentially put her or my family at risk just by blogging and calling into question the actions of my government by exercising my right to free speech? Crossed my mind more than once. And that is chilling indeed. (Not that it stopped me, mind you. *g*)
selise @ 30
What Cheney fails to understand is that this isn’t about the “killers”. It’s not about the guys in the orange jumpsuits.
This is about us.. Who we are as Americans, what we see in the mirror. Basic American values that have served us for centuries.
innocent til proven guilty
the right to an attorney
the right to rebut the evidence against you in a court of law
the right to due process and equal protection of the laws
That is what makes us a great nation. Our belief in those aspirations and those ideals made real everyday life.
That’s what Cheney should have said at the graduation ceremony. But then again, we would need a different vice president to communicate that message.
Oilfieldguy @ 38
The point is that we have to hold them accounatable. They get away with it only if we let them.
Since David Addington likely helped Cheney craft his speech, I wouldn’t be looking for an affirmation of our commitment to human rights over unchecked executive authority from either of them any time soon.
Anthony:
Given the politicization of the DOJ and the appointment of more and more GOP “true believer” judges, do you feel that the operational function of our legal system is being subverted? It is great that the ACLU does the work it does but aren’t the institutional impediments to enforcement and redress increasing making that work increasingly difficult?
Anthony at #46
Very well said.
Hi, Jane and Christy.
Well, and what always boggles me is that our justice system is designed to catch the guilty - so if a detainee is, in fact, a “killer,” it can and should come out in a court of law. Especially if the detainees’ guilt is a clear as the Bush administration would have us believe. If they are so clearly in violation of the law, why is the administration so afraid to try them under the law?
Christy Hardin Smith @ 45
Exactly. It’s why I’ve continued to write under a pseudonym, and why I don’t disclose to most people I know the name of my blog or that I blog at all. It’s less about me than my kids; what happens if I suddenly disappear, without explanation? How would they handle it? THEY already know how I feel, but THEY might be compelled to do something just as they did with that poor small businessman only a few miles from my home, should someone I meet personally take affront at my exercise of so-called Free Speech…
Which does bring up a question: what does one do if they get detained, between now and whenever we salvage this democracy? There’s no primer for this, I’m afraid.
TeddySanFran @ 31
I hear the same thing about career officials in the Justice Department. I’ve been told that morale has never been lower, and remember that John Aschcroft was Gonzales’ predecessor. That’s saying a lot.
I don’t think that the return of these executive powers is going to be fixed with the outcome of the elections as easily as some may think. We need to get the major candidates on record about whether they will close Gitmo, restore habeas, stop wiretapping of Americans.
This may not be popular with a bunch of folks here, but the precursor to the Patriot Act was a law the Pres. Clinton signed into existence in 1996.
The war on terror is a lot like the Cold War. I fear that the paradigm will be one that both Democrats and Republicans alike will cling to in the assertion of additional executive powers.
That’s why we need an independent and questioning citizenry.
Greetings to Anthony and thanks as always to Jane and Christy.
Having just addressed the Georgia branch of the ACLU (Ground zero on a lot of civil rights and first amendment issues, I was really struck by the motto that “freedom cannot defend itself”. It encapsulates everything we all have been fighting for. Wish I had thought of it but since I didn’t, I shamelessly use it!
Is the right to know how our government is functioning, even in the “national security” arena, something the ACLU has particularly focused on, or is particularly focused on?
Specifically, has the ACLU considered how to get Congress to do a thorough review and reform of the classification authority of “state secrets” in the Executive Branch, so that classified secrets start to reclaim their value? [Because abuse and overuse of classification authority reduces the value of the status, and therefore diminishes the effect and the point of classification in the first place.]
Oilfieldguy @ 33
sorry. aromero@aclu.org. my first time on fdl, i’m embarrassed to say
Joe at 54 — As always, great to see you. Hope you all are enjoying the new surroundings.
anthony @ 39
this is something that drives me nuts. i’m so glad that the aclu worked to counter the idea that being free means we can’t be safe. i don’t think they’re competing imperatives - i think they’re complimentary.
when law enforcement is going around investigating quakers - they’re being distracted from the important work that is needed to keep us safe.
when law enforcement is rounding up muslims - they’re discouraging people in the muslim community from coming forward if they have information of use to law enforcement.
and when law enforcement works in unnecessary sercrecy - incompetence and stupid decisions don’t see the light of day that will lead to improvement and correction.
sorry for the rant… a pet peeve of mine.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 41
thanks Christy. It’s probably the part of the book that moved me the most as well.
For those of you who are looking for the ACLU website, I’ve linked it here and in the above post as well.
anthony @ 46
Amen.
Anthony, thanks for your work and thanks for the ACLU.
As the
firstcurrent wave of “Green Scare” Federal trials of eco-vandals moves to the sentencing phase, Judge Aiken has ruled the defendants are subject to terrorism “enhancements” (double-good Newspeak, that) requested by the US Attorney even though:1) the defendants were not convicted of terrorism, but other crimes
2) the jury never considered nor approved this finding of “terrorism”
IANAL, but I thought the Supremes rejected the sentencing guidelines in part because they imposed punishment not chosen by the jury of the defendant’s peers.
Other than the fact DOJ has gone down a rathole and Abu needs a new distraction, is there any Constitutional basis for these post-conviction “enhancements” untained by the jurors’ scrutiniy?
And might you have any broader observations about the possible political role of the Green Scare prosecutions and the SHAC 7 cases as “trial runs” of onerous prosecutorial discretion to be used in future suppression of legal political speech?
Having a great time. New horizons. And they are vast. We continue in the fight, however. Looking forward to the fifth of June. I hope everybody saw Larry Johnson’s piece on Treason is as treason does at No Quarter and DKOS.
This was in response to Christy at 57
Joe Wilson @ 63
anthony @ 52
Do you know the name of Clinton’s law? Thanks.
Woops! I wasn’t throwing rocks at you Anthony about the link to your website. It is an automatic thing here at fdl and tends to be useful. Thanks for the link.
I also urge you to check out http://www.juneaction.org for more on our June 26 Day of Action to Restore Law & Justice and http://www.findhabeas.com for more… well, habeas.
anthony @ 53
This is the scariest thing of all to me. The disregard of the rules that even the Bush appointees and DC career veterans know must be followed if this society is going to remain free. Again, not a left-right thing at all. cf Paul O’Neill, Christy Whitman, Powell, even Comey.
Thanks Christy, and a big wave to the Ambassador.
Rachel at 67 — Have you all been seeing much success in the habeas push? I was very pleased to see the hearing in Senate Judiciary this past week, but I would love to see more of that sort of discussion. And not such a brief one. Anything we can do to help push this forward, let me know…
Kevster @ 47
There are impediments. The increasingly conservative nature of the courts is a big one. And sometimes it is difficult not to feel that the odds are entirely against us.
I also tell the lawyers at the ACLU, that sometimes we have to bring cases and demand accountability, even if we lose.
You set the stage for the next battle. You shape public opinion. You create a record to come back to later.
In the book, I talk about a case re Khaled el Masri. This is a tough case to win. It’s about a man who was tortured and detained for 5 months, after being whisked away by the CIA in Macedonia, and held in Bagram. Then when they found out they had the wrong guy, the put him on another CIA flight and brought him to Albania.
This will be a tough case to win. the govt. is invoking state secrets privilege. I will get to that below.
but we need to bring the case and demand accountability. even if we lose.
in 1944, the aclu lost the case of japanese american internment. but time vindicated us. I take the same lesson now.
sorry if this response was too long. the question was a good one
Joe, we too are excited to see Paris Hilton enter jail on June Fifth. Oh, is there someone else being sentenced that day, too? *g*
oops - accidental duplication in lieu of edit. sorry mods. please delete.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 57
Woo hoo! An American hero revisits the waters of the Lake - always an honor indeed and three cheers for Mr. Wilson and the incomparable Ms. Plame!
;~)
What a pleasure to have Anthony join us at the Lake - and to talk about the ACLU’s important work.
Attorney Beeson worked with my son when he was a teen and participated in the ACLU’s awesome work against the CDA law which threatened free speech on the Internet - and without their work, I’m not sure we’ve have the blogosphere we have today.
Thank you ACLU!
Anthony — one of the connection points on El-Masri and so many of the others is Gen. Geoffry Miller who was initially in charge of detentions in Afghanistan, moved to Guantanimo and then in to Iraq. I rarely hear his name mentioned in connection with this in the media and I think he is still at the Pentagon. Can you shed any light on Miller and/or the detention policy issues and whether or not any reforms at all have been initiated past the stalled reworking of the Army Manual?
When I saw that Anthony was here, I wanted to say hello and say how much I respect what he and the ACLU are doing on the front lines of the battle for freedom — because freedom cannot defend itself!
newspaperbrat @ 73
Rachel @ 49
That’s exactly the point that militar