I wholeheartedly agree with Joan Walsh, I love Mike Tomasky and am very happy he is doing great work at the Guardian but I don't buy this:
If the celebrated surge hasn't shown results by September, public opinion will harden even more; people will start demanding timelines and Bush will be in a corner.
Or, more likely, public opinion will harden against the party in the majority who will do nothing meaningful to stop the war. Bush is already in a corner. If people like Steny Hoyer are doing back room deals with Republicans and undermining the ability of party leadership to do anything concrete, let's hear about it.
This whole deal smells like cowardice and I'm sure that Dick Cheney Democrat Rahm Emanuel -- the man who quite nearly snatched defeat from the jaws of victory with his "don't mention the war" leadership of the DCCC -- considers this a triumph but we have not been living under GOP hegemony so long that everyone's bullshit detectors have gone on the fritz. Rahm may be foolish enough to think that toothless benchmarks for the Iraqi government that Bush is free to ignore constitutes a righteous shitkicking but the rest of us know that even the best face they can put on this particular cave smacks of political opportunism. Have the Democrats so rigorously internalized the notion that the extremely unpopular GOP is better at PR and will be able to capitalize on it when the Democrats do exactly what the country elected them to do that they are struck with paralysis?
Surely they must realize that this plays into the hand of every stereotype the GOP uses to disempower and castigate the Democrats. That they prove themselves to be moral relativists and craven political opportunists who really don't care about the troops, because if they did they'd defund the war. That's the argument the GOP is making and it sounds damned persuasive to me. Think of how it must play to those who are preconditioned by a steady diet of Rush Limbaugh and wingnut talk radio.
The main reason to battle with Bush to stop this war is because it's the right thing to do. But even if you're arguing the optics of PR, the only ones who stand to grow more unpopular as a result of this vote are the Democrats. And I just do not see how that is a good thing. Do they think anyone is fooled by this bullshit?
The rule for the supplemental would also require lawmakers to debate legislation sponsored by Rep. Ellen Tauscher (D-Calif.) rescinding congressional authorization for the war.
Tauscher is a Blue Dog offering up a bucket of lukewarm spit in order to give people "see you in September" cover for voting for this bill. One would have to have a serious case of Capitol Hill dementia to think anyone would take her or anything she does as a serious attempt at anything but careerism and ass-covering spin.
I think Keith Olbermann in the blistering, must-see clip above represents how most folks will be feeling When Septermber Comes. No more or less disgusted with either Bush or his ego driven war, but pretty fed up with those sitting there staring at their political calculators trying to figure out how to make themselves look good while more bullets fly and the body bags fill up.
I'm sorry but when I hear people hear like Fred Yang making outrageously cynical arguments like this it just makes me want to throw up a bit:
"Obviously it's a good move," said Democratic pollster Fred Yang. "It gives President Bush and Republicans one less thing to shoot at" during the upcoming recess week.
Do people like this who think they're qualified to weigh in on the value of PR bother to listen to themselves? Even if you're that completely craven, don't say it in public and please don't make that argument in the press. How very stupid.
(Anyone having trouble viewing the YouTube above can also go to Crooks & Liars and find it in WMV and RealPlayer. You definitely do not want to miss it.)
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ZED???
zed
So what is the name of your act?
The Democrats.
Hi Jane, had to get the zed out of the way.
I hope you’re doing well.
Nail all the bastards who capitulate to wall. Now back to studying.
Mary McCurnin @ 3
That was good.
So, will there be a roll call on the ‘rule’ vote? Does anyone know?
It’s as if the Democrats, in all their calculation, don’t realize that thousands of people will die or suffer a lifetime of physical/mental trauma because of their inaction.
I wrote my congressional peeps an email. Have you?
KO hits it dead on.
Wake Me Up When September Ends:
Summer has come and passed
The innocent can never last
wake me up when september ends
like my fathers come to pass
seven years has gone so fast
wake me up when september ends
here comes the rain again
falling from the stars
drenched in my pain again
becoming who we are
as my memory rests
but never forgets what I lost
wake me up when september ends
(Green Day)
My displeasure with the cave-in on the Iraq War funding issue almost, I said, ‘almost’, defies description. I will be taking those in my party responsible to task. And I will particularly focus on certain Democratic presidential front-runners who continue to triangulate.
I am fast approaching the fed-up threshold with the so called leaders of my Democratic Party.
How about we sit on our fucking checkbooks ’till September too???
Well done on Hartman, Jane.
Do you think our anger is doing any good. Can we rachet it up more?
Just had lunch here in DC with Tim Tagaris & our own Matt Browner-Hamlin from the Dodd campaign. They did a great job getting the Dodd video up yesterday, it really left the rest of the 08’s no cover. Good for Dodd, it was a very smart thing to do.
It looks like things are changing here minute by minute. They said that we’re in weird parlimentary territory where in order to limit debate they’re just pulling procedure out of their asses, even the Senate parlimentarian doesn’t quite know what’s going on.
We were laughing about Hillary and Obama standing at the back of the Senate waiting for the other to vote and seeing who blinks first. I think they both underestimated how angry people would be about this, and everyone who thought they could get away with calling it a “victory” was too cute by half.
Olbermann amazes me. And on top of that, he likes baseball too.
Bush already took a shot at the Dems today, for fuck’s sake.
I’ve never understood this bullshit about the military and Republicans withholding judgment until September. Even if they do, and subsequently decide to be against the war, the Dems will make no political hay by claiming to have staked out that territory first.
What a fucking drag.
“By voting for this bill, members of both parties can show our troops and the Iraqis and the enemy that our country will support our service men and women in harm’s way,” Bush said in a Rose Garden news conference.
Pure spin. The ‘troops’ don’t make policy as that statement suggests
I like Dodd.
Since the Dems bailed on Iraq, Bush/Cheney know an invasion of Iran will get the same lip service from the loyal opposition. Bombs away.
Jane writes:
Trying to put perfume on a bucket of sh*t does nothing but mean you still have a bucket of nasty smelling sh*t.
Hillary and Obama? Someone threw my switch.
The Speaker’s hometown rag.
Biggus Diggus @ 7
Bingo! They treat this like a political problem, not a human problem. I’ve been hearing from several of my Dem pals today — all disgusted and not seeing a whole lot of reason to vote after this. I’ll still vote, but it feels like an empty gesture.
I called my Rep - Howard Berman and sent him a note urging him to vote no on the supplemental.
I am not hopeful, given his history.
Simple Political Advice for our Democratic Party:
If the GOP supports it, it’s probably not a good idea.
If the political consultants also supports it, you’re doing something wrong.
And if Bush is happy about it, you’ve F*cked up.
If the D party expects a happy summer of fundraising….they’re going to be very very surprised come September.
Checks go to winners, not losers.
I am not pleased with the Speaker.
ThatSinger @ 11
I donated to John Edwards last week (and will receive a t-shirt). Other than that no one gets any of my money. Except, maybe Dodd, if he pulls a rabbit out of his hat.
If he does, he will be an instant contender.
Hi Jane!
They dont even refer them as men, they call them “boots on the ground”
If you want no change in Middle East policy in 2009, vote Hillary.
What polls are the Democrats looking at that makes them fear Bush so? Why do they fear him speaking out against them on Memorial Day?
It can only help them.
Poll after poll proves that when Bush opens his mouth, his numbers tank. It’s Social Security-palooza all over again, but now about the occupation, people. Why do they fear Bush — more than they fear the righteous fury of Americans who elected them to do ONE THING?
I hope my Congresswoman enjoys having Ellen Tauscher defend her — maybe they can campaign in each others’ primaries next spring.
Sent letters to my Senator (Bob Corker) and Rep (David Davis) Asked them when we could meet over the Holiday.
If not Gore. Dodd/Edwards?
I don’t buy this. With every day that passes, more people want the war over, and they want it more intensely. That’s been the case since 2004, and it’s not going to change. And the general public isn’t going to be picky about who ends it, as long as it ends.
The fact that public opinion will boost our cause more in September doesn’t excuse not ending the war now. But it should be something that motivates us not to go pout in our tents over some pols’ spinelessness. We knew all along they’d have to be dragged kicking and screaming.
Elliott @ 27
Hi Elliott!
Strong writing, Jane.
Good for Sen. Dodd. Have Clinton or Obama said how they will vote?
Got an e-mail from Sen. Leahy. He’s voting no. We need more like him.
How many more people will die in Iraq between now and September?
How do you ask someone to be the last American to die for the Democrats’ PR strategy?
Jane Hamsher @ 13
Funny. I just got off the phone with Matt.
I don’t see how Clinton or Obama can expect to win the nomination if they vote for this.
In fact, I think their hesitance alone is going to hurt them. It calls into question the candor of their statements in opposition to the continued occupation. They’ve both left themselves wiggle room on what they would actually do.
I still think there is a good chance that either would continue an indefinite occupation using the infrastructure that’s in place for doing so.
Where are we as far as the vote goes,timewise?
There hasn’t been a vote yet has there?
What’s simply Darwin about Pelosi and Reid’s actions is that the Republicans are going to use the Defeatocrat/Troophater/Surrender Monkey meme anyway NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS. The Democrats made this same stupid mistake on supporting action against Iraq… AND STILL GOT BLASTED FOR BEING UNPATRIOTIC COWARDS BY THE GOP ATTACK MACHINE.
The attacks are going to come whatever the leadership does, so why not do the right thing?
Why?
I don’t think I’d realized with such stark reality that the lives of my son and all the other kids and Iraqis mean squat to both parties. Democrats or Republicans, all that matters to them is playing the political game.
Today, I’m feeling pretty damn hopeless about the lot of them.
Too bad we don’t have a Glade “refresh comments” button for DC PR people, new and improved with fresh pine scent.
I just don’t see how the Dems can possibly think that they can get away with this horse-shit. Seventy six percent of Americans want this war ended yesterday, and they are trying to blame Bush for their own cowardice. They just don’t have the stones to call Bush on his despicable ploy of using American troops in Iraq as hostages to his monstrous ego and his denial of how disastrous his war of choice has become. They don’t even seem to realize that the people see through this bullshit much faster than they can shovel it. The Dick Cheney Dems (I like that label) and their consultants have convinced the leadership that war profiteering and not ending the war will serve them better than standing up to Bush and fulfilling their campaign promises.
Biggus Diggus @ 7
Hell, it doesn’t even make sense as political calculation. Bushies will still attack them for not supporting the troops, and most of the public wants us out of the occupation. So what the hell are Dems getting out of this?
A circular firing squad.
neurophius @ 35
I called Clinton’s office. She is not going to issue a statement before her vote. IOW, she wants to vote for the bill but is afraid of what it would do to her chances of getting nominated.
I think she’s in Schumer’s “make the republicans end this” camp, which is one horrifically immoral place to be.
Mutant Poodle @ 23
Know how you feel. My Rep is Mike Rogers. I let him know how I feel all the time, but I may as well be talking to a 2×4. Luckily I have two good Senators. I’ve got my fingers crossed.
Swopa @ 33
I received the e-mail from democrats.com yesterday and signed their peition and sent e-mails to my congressional representative and senators. I left a note in the comments that ANY vote in favor of this bill would be prolonging the occupation brought about by Bush’s ill-conceived, ill-planned, ill-managed mis-adventure in Iraq and that the blood of the troops dying and injured was on their heads.
Since my rep is Lamar Smith and the Senators are Hutchinson and Cornyn, I do not anticipate being listened to in any way. But I got on the record.
TR @ 39
It goes against our grain to believe this but eventually it sinks in.
With all due respect to Jane’s righteous anger, it smells less like cowardice than Lieberman to me. Right before the “compromise” bill was announced, there were rumors all over that Lieberman was once again talking about switching parties. I think he blackmailed the Dems into giving Bush a victory by threatening to jump. Yeah, sure, he might have been crying wolf and it’s not a given it would cede control to the Rethugs, but the Dems couldn’t take the chance of losing their majority (and control of the legislative bus), so they caved, making themselves looked both calculating and stupid. And they couldn’t talk about it because they’d have to admit they were punked by one of their own.
My government is sending six cargo flights full of ammunition to the Lebanese military to facilitate the killing of more Palestinians in a refugee camp.
Jane -
I haven’t had a chance to see whether this important post from Steve Clemons has been mentioned on any of today’s other threads:
Cheney Attempting to Constrain Bush’s Choices on Iran Conflict: Staff Engaged in Insubordination Against President Bush
Thanks for the Olberman clip, Jane, great stuff–and I hope you are doing well.
I suggest that everybody get after their favorite Dem to END THE WAR NOW. Maybe we can turn this around (NYT just reporting that opposition to the war is at an all-time high)
Sorry I can’t stay around, check this thread later.
Sally @ 18
Funny thing Sally, I wa just about to make the same comment. If they back down on this the GOP will just walk all over them in the future. Although I am not a US citizen, we in Europe know that you still have an influence on world politics. After November there was a great feeling of relief over here that perhaps now Mr. Bush and his minions would be held in check, I am very disappointed in the Democratic party, they have absolutely nothing to lose by going head to head with Mr. Bush on this but it looks as if they have chickened out. Such a shame!
dalloway @ 48
Why would HoJo jump? He can’t afford to. The Dems are gonna be back in the majority in ‘08 anyway, so he’d just be burning any bridges he had left now.
dalloway @ 48
He’s not one of their own. That’s the problem, innit?
do-si-do @ 40
Wouldn’t do any good, it would still be a pile of odoriferous manure.
I officially left the party today.
Well, almost: I ordered the paperwork from the city to change my affiliation to Independent. And I have taken myself off the DNC’s mailing list.
I’m done. Speaking as someone who’s had his share of knives in the back, I don’t take this shit from anyone.
And there are quite a few democrats I would like to personally punch in the face.
Could someone explain how “progress” in Iraq is going to be measured, and who’s going to do the measuring?
If we’re relying on Bush, please go straight to the insane asylum. He’s been saying forever that “things are looking up,” and corners have been turned.
So if the Dems are trusting him to give an accurate analysis & report on whether there’s been “progress”? Pul-eeze!
PS - I sure would like to see folks here weigh in on how this Dem capitulation helps Hillary. After all, Rahm Emmanuel is one of the architects, and we know that getting her, and thus him, back to the WH is his main goal in life. I think he’s engineered this disaster thinking that it’s helped Hillary continue her wishy-washy “I won’t condemn the war” position, in furtherance of her thinking that that will appeal to the American public.
I dunno: maybe it’s just my disgust speaking.
Sometimes Senator Clinton makes me irritable.
TR @ 39
Who is your son with? My friend is with 1/9 Inf, 2nd ID at Ramadi.
According to a front page post on dKos and on Calitics, Jerry McNerney announced he will vote nay.
I hope this is accurate. He certainly received many blistering e-mails criticizing his nay on McGovern (including mine).
I wonder if the nay voters will make the announcement and the yea voters will be silent.
I’ve got a place for KO’s shoes…under my bed.
Is there any way to have Bushco’s new emergency law (werein he gets to take over decidering simply everything) unconstitutional BEFORE he tries to use it???? I’m asking…
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 50
Does it suprise anyone that Darth Vader is itching to bomb Iran? If they go through with it, I just hope that the military brass goes through with their threats and resign. Besides, if Iran is attacked, the economy will tank even more than it would otherwise be.
Right on, Jane!
I loved the Olberman smackdown. The Democratic leadership’s collective ears should be burning with embarrassment over this meltdown.
The best thing would be for most Democrats to vote NO! on this bill, so that most of the yes votes are Republican. That will increase the acute embarrassment of any Dem. Presidential candidate foolish enough to vote yes.
John Edwards is right on this. They should just have sent Bush the very same bill that Bush already vetoed. Again.
Bob in HI
Two noteworthy items from ThinkProgress, both posted within the last 45 minutes:
New FISA court appointee was Libby judge
Sen. Whitehouse: Gonzales May Be Guilty Of Obstruction Of Justice
brendancalling @ 56
Not criticizing your choice, but I wouldn’t give the Republicans that satisfaction, myself.
The dems could have forced bush by his veto to pull the war funding thereby turning his own argument about not supporting the troops against him, but instead they fold 4 aces. I am sick beyond words.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 58
And pulling this shit, she still thinks she can win the Dem nomination? Is her plan to piss off the base so much they’ll not come out and vote in the primary, assuring her of victory?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 49
raven @ 59
My son is with 2/6 Inf., out of Germany. He’s not in country right now but he’ll be heading back for his third round this fall.
Good thing these pussy senators aren’t in Iraq. People like Hillary being afraid to vote is disgusting.
How long would it take them to vote if they had on a kevlar vest in 120 degree heat with insurgents all around them?
Have they already voted?
ccmask @ 61
I think his 23 year old live-in girlfriend might have a problem with that ; )
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 63
Not one good thing could come out of bombing Iran, no matter how we pieced the world back together.
If the Democratic leadership caves on an Iraq pullout timetable, what makes you think they’ll stop Bush from attacking Iran?
Swopa @ 33
I am usually one to squawk about Emanuel being an ex-IDF warmonger, but if one were to play play devil’s advocate and defend him, is there any prospect of the status quo being more destructive to the Republican Party politically than trying to end the war now? Emanuel has made cynical statements to the effect that Democrats want Republicans to “own the war” and make them run on it in 2008. Republicans won’t run against the war in 2008 and it will only easier for Democrats, even Clinton, to run against it. Maybe he’s just resigned to events taking their course and defeat being all the more gruesomely apparent. That’s one fatalistic way to resign oneself to this for the moment.
TR @ 70
Best to him and you.
On the MCA we got cooked on the “unanimous consent” agreement that set the terms of the debate and made a filibuster impossible. The agreement was made a week beforehand well out of the limelight and all the calls for filibuster afterwards were procedurally useless.
Call your senators and let them know you expect them to object to any unanimous consent agreement to limit debate.
Given that Feingold-Reid garnered well short of 41 votes a successful filibuster seems unlikely, but don’t let them try to sneak out of town saying “Our hands were tied by the unanimous consent”.
(BTW, happily my own MA-08 Congressman Capuano is voting against the supplemental. Kerry and Kennedy had not taken positions as of this morning.)
I said above,
“How do you ask someone to be the last American to die for the Democrats’ PR strategy?”
I want to add, “And die in vain, because the strategy isn’t going to work.”
next week our reps are going to be home.
i’m going to be watching how mine vote in both the house and senate (on the rule in the house)… and visit accordingly.
note - they really hate to have anti-war protests (even small ones) outside their offices.
if we make ‘em regret their vote, maybe they won’t make the same mistake again.
p.s. and i really hate the process going on in the house right now meant to confuse and prevent accountability (and my rep is on the rules committee!).
Some very interesting speculation about the “bill”:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyo.....14956/9186
That sounds like they think they can abdicate their position in government for some convenient period of time. Maybe they should abstain and see where that gets them.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 75
What makes you think they have the power to stop him? Do you think the Constitution, much less the War Powers Act, is operative?
dalloway @ 48
Do we have to explain again that control of the Senate is fixed until the 111th Congress is seated in 2009? And that RGJoe’s leaving to joing the GOP will change the majority but won’t change control?
I hope not.
These bozo consultants are probably the same ones that gave then minority leader Dascle the advice to authorize the war and get the issue out of the public eye in the first place so that they “could put it behind them.” What a bunch of knuckleheads. Don’t see Dascle in the Senate anymore and that’s what’s going to happen to folks who authorize this mess. These folks in power sure do have short memories…
I believe the U.S and Israeli governments are driving this attack on the Palestinian refugee camp.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 25
Actually, didn’t Pelosi say she was going to vote No on this supplemental?
This could turn out to be a smart tactic if most of the Yes votes are Republicans, but they don’t get enough votes in the House to pass it.
Bob in HI
The Democrats are proving the old adage correct: If you don’t stand for something, you’ll fall for anything.
You’ve got to go toe-to-toe with Bush and not blink. Repeat after me: We already funded the troops. Bush doesn’t think we should leave Iraq, and we disagree.
There, that wasn’t so hard, was it?
Between now and September, I suggest the Democratic leadership play this video every damn morning when they get up and every damn night before they go to bed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofwPKcnEOdE
They need to internalize Tom Petty’s message!
TeddySanFran @ 21
Ah, the not-so-closet authoritarian speaks! Disagreeing with the Speaker is “personal,” just like Jimmy Carter’s critique of Bush foreign policy was a “personal attack” (according to Huckabee.) Supporting the boss is “taking it seriously,” but standing up to Bush is being a “critic du jour.” (Du jour, eh, Ellen? I bet most of those antiwar votes are a hell of a lot more consistent in their views than you are.)
Joe Klein’s conscience@53–
Yup, the Democrats will be back in the majority, hopefully much stronger, and HoJo will be an ignored backbencher, no matter how many committees his seniority enables him to chair. This and other stunts like it qualify him for a fat job at any number of defense industries benefiting from the war. If he helps Giuliani get elected, there will be a cabinet post. HoJo’s calculated his future and it ain’t with the Democrats. That’s why he accepted Republican campaign funds and became Bush’s bitch.
I agree, but the dems in congress are obviously expecting their checks from somewhere else than the American Electorate, if you ask me. Otherwise, why the recent votes against what we want???
If we attack Iran it could very well be the start of World War III. So states Noam Chomsky and me.
brendancalling @ 56
Good luck getting anyone at the DNC to notice. Six weeks ago, I stopped my Democracy Bond contribution & sent an email telling them why — and have heard nothing. There’s something wrong in Dr Dean’s customer/member/donor relations department.
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 68
Oh, the base will turn out and vote, all right. They’ll just vote for someone other than Hillary.
When does Walton start FISA? Who sentences Libby?
I called the local office of Neal (MA-02) about an hour ago, and when I mentioned the war, got transferred to DC.
I didn’t get the name of whoever answered. Almost sounded like staffer as opposed to intern. According to this person, Neal is ‘waiting to see the details’ of whatever ‘the leadership’ ends up creating. Expecting vote laaate tonight.
The very personable woman in DC mentioned he’s ‘always been against the war.’ Which is true. Voted ‘NO’ on AUMF and just about everything else related since then. Filed ‘NO Iran’ bill in Feb. w/Jones (R-NC) and Ron Paul. In the ‘Out of Iraq Caucus’. So, I can’t quite grok the stand.
I reinforced the view of NOT ANOTHER PENNY. Which was agreed with by this woman. Also noted movement by Jackson-Lee and others for ‘public financing’ of Fed Elections.
She noted the info and took my name. (And I forgot to get hers…for future contact. D’oh!).
At least they’ve got a name that’s called now.
I consider Sen. Clinton virtually a lost cause, although I’d love to be proven wrong.
If Obama votes for this outrage, he will have given up any claim he might have had to moral leadership.
I have remained uncommitted on 2008 but if Clinton and Obama vote yes, I will be supporting John Edwards as the most viable alternative.
Is that rain?
.
.
.
Why, no — it’s just a bunch of Beltway Democrats pissing on my leg!!!
Bob Schacht @ 87
Yes, I believe that’s the case. But let me get this straight. The Speaker supported the funding bill, but will vote against it?
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/....._0524.html
catching up on comments-don’t know if anyone posted this yet=
for those of us on dial-up who can’t do video-
stephen parrish P.I. posted this earlier-is a transcript of the olberman commentary.
TeddySanFran @ 99
Oh my…
Oklahoma kiddo @ 86
And I think one of the greatest mistakes that, “we” in the anti-war movement made during the Second Indochina War was to deify the NVA and VC and ignore the misery they inflicted on their own people. I say that in full respect of your perspective.
brendancalling @ 56