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George Tenet seems to be inspiring everyone to new candor. Ray McGovern on Tucker, talking about the Niger forgeries:
TUCKER: That memo came from abroad.MCGOVERN: Some of it came from abroad, but you know if you trace the memo back, and see the characters who are involved, it's my appreciation that the memo leads right back to the doorstep of the Vice President of the United States.
TUCKER: So the Vice President you believe forged -- now if the Vice President was behind that forgery, don't you think he would have done a better job?
MCGOVERN: I don't think he and Lynn, you know, sat down and did it. I think they farmed it out to a cottage industry of former intelligence agents that did a rather amateurish job.
TUCKER: Who specifically?
MCGOVERN: Well, I...there are people who work for Cheney who are in very close who were in very close touch with the Italians, who actually worked for the Italians.
TUCKER: Do you have any evidence? That's a huge deal.
MCGOVERN: Sure.
TUCKER: Presumably an impeachable offense, immoral as hell...so who did it?
MCGOVERN: Well these are like the plummers.
TUCKER: Right, but can you be a lot more specific since you are alleging this crime?
MCGOVERN: I won't be any more specific right here, but the names have been in the public domain. The people who traveled to Rome and to other countries in Europe to set up this kind of thing, to work with the Italians to get this stuff made.
TUCKER: So you have no evidence at all that that it's true that you are willing to share publicly?
MCGOVERN: I have some evidence but I am not willing to share it right here and now.
Time to share, Ray.
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Rove fits in here somwhere.
Jane!
Good catch Jane - it was quite an interesting little exchange!
Impeach chainy now!
Who is Ray McGovern?
Time to share, Ray.
Indeed, because this claim connecting the names in the public domain of people who traveled to Rome to work with the Italians has been pursued by a number of excellent reporters, and none of them has found a shred of evidence to support the claim.
So I call bullshit.
It would be spectacular if this were true. Does Ray McGovern have credibility?
Rats, just missed the zed. I just finished reading that last post about Hannity. (Catching up after being gone awhile.) I so love to hear that the right is melting, melting. Now if we can Cheney Cheney, Rove and Boy King. . . .
Not Rove, his job is to take events and turn them into political advantages. Matters of foreign
diplomacywars are outside his bag. This has the stench of Rumsfeld and his personal intelligence agency inside the DoD. Since Rumsfeld is little more than Cheney’s agent, well…WOW!
Sounds like fun.
OT. I’m in PA meeting the people who are hopefully going to call me to be their new minister.
Just went house hunting today and found one I like. I knew that the area is split between Gerlach and Pitts, neither of which I want to “do business” with. Well, I just typed in the zip code of the house and it is in Sestack’s CD!!!
Happy camper here!
Oh, and Hi everyone. Won’t be around much this week. Will check in when I can.
The real question is this:
Is there ANYthing criminal in this government that Cheney isn’t behind?
If push comes to shove Cheney is jettisonable. Not so with Rove.
Rove the micro-manager knows all the details. Of everything.
I assume he’s talking about Ledeen connecting with Martino, but can he prove it?
Maybe this is why Condi doesn’t want to talk under oath.
from wikipedia:
“Now, therefore, I, John Ellis Bush, President of the United States, pursuant to the pardon power conferred upon me by Article II, Section 2, of the Constitution, have granted and by these presents do grant a full, free, and absolute pardon unto George W. Bush for all offenses against the United States which he, George W. Bush , has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 20, 2001 through August 9, 2007.”
Balrog @ 5
Ray McGovern Confronts Rumsfeld on KO.
OT and EPU’d - Israeli Commission on the Lebanon War:
The prime minister made up his mind hastily, despite the fact that no detailed military plan was submitted to him and without asking for one…
Also, his decision was made without close study of the complex features of the Lebanon front and of the military, political and diplomatic options available to Israel.
All of these add up to a serious failure in exercising judgment, responsibility and prudence….
Israel’s government in its plenum failed in its political function of taking full responsibility for its decisions.
It did not explore and seek adequate response for various reservations that were raised, and authorised an immediate military strike that was not thought-through and suffered from over-reliance on the judgment of the primary decision-makers.
Does this sound like someone else we know?
He’s talking about Michael Ledeen. But he’s afraid of being slapped with a lawsuit. Ledeen met in Rome with Iranian exiles in December 2001 — Rocco Martino was apparently at that meeting — and he’s the guy that tried to sell the docs to the Italian Journalist who was on Fresah Air the other day — Carla somebody.
Ray McGovern has plenty of credibility, I really do hope he has some evidence. I’ve thought for years that it would lead back to Cheney, paraphrasing the catchphrase from the movie All the President’s Men, “follow the documents.”
My theory on the forger: Michael Ledeen.
Jeff @
6
One person’s “excellent reporter” is another person’s “agenda hornet.”
Please cite sources…
Michael Ledeen…
…was in Rome, according to Tenet on 60 Minutes last night in Jan ‘02.
Joe Wilson’s trip to Niger occured in Feb. ‘02.
Hmmmmm…
Bebimbob @ 14
I immediately thought the same thing re Ledeen.
First find who forged the Dan Rather Texas ANG papers.
That story, and its aftermath, killed the 60 Minutes
story on the Niger documents.
McGovern has some credibility. He is fairly tight with Larry Johnson. The two of them, along with Phil Giraldi and Jim Marcinkowski recently sent a letter to Tenet demanding he give his Medal of Freedom back. Larry Johnson has also been emphasizing a recent book on the Italian forgeries. I think these ex-CIA guys have their ducks lined up, are pissed and they are going to start letting fly. They are all also very close to Valerie Plame Wilson. Something significant is happening here.
Throwing this out there, because I remember listening to this program, and maybe there is something in it (interview with Italian reporter who investigated this story on NPR, fairly recent)
http://www.npr.org/templates/s.....Id=9847141
Anyone remember that funny hearing that Conyers had to have in a basement room because the rethugs wouldn’t let him have a hearing room? Well McGovern was one of the star witnesses in that. He oozes credibility. I sure hope he’s got the goods on this one. Boyoboy.
RevDeb @
10
you found a house in one day of house hunting!?! wow, sounds like there are forces at work….
Who do I thank for watching Tucker so I don’t have to?
I would assume that a man with the background that McGovern has, documents and photocopies everything that smells bad.
The book I think Larry is talking about is The Italian Letter — story may be picking up some Middle America traction — I bought it at Costco where it was sitting next to Tom Delay’s book.
Those documents didn’t appear by magic. It’s even more curious that they appear in the vicinity of Ledeen.
All roads lead to Rome…and Ledeen. He’s in this up to his eyeballs. He’ll never talk though. Someone else will have to break.
This is not new for Ray to speak out on this topic. He was here on LI last fall asying the same things.
I am so glad he is finally getting a wider audience.
You know when you meet someone ad you know right away they are the real deal? That’s what happened when I first met Ray.
Ray McGovern is not a nut, he is not a disgruntled employee. He is a decent honorable man trying to get the truth out and in a way where it won’t be dismissed or swept under the rug.
He is also wise enough to know that this story (and it’s a doozy) has to build with a drip drip drip.
He’s got the goods, but knows that there is lots more out there that he doesn’t have –yet.
If he gets the Marcy’s and Josh’s of this world on the case, the rest of the muck will come to light.
Ray’s gots lots of breadcrumbs. Follow them and I don’t think you will be disappointed.
I am so glad he has finally decided the time has come to make his move.
GO Ray!
ANyone else getting the impression that Waxman has his eye on this also?
My guess: Valerie’s got the evidence, too.
This could be huge.
It’s Ledeen and friends. Everyone knows it’s Ledeen and friends. Everyone in Washington has known from the beginning, but it’s been considered indelicate to even mention such a thing.
Musn’t offend the Vice President. Heavens.
A national security council member during the Clinton administration is now serving as a Consul General in Italy — she might be a good source on this.
Badwater @ 16
That’s what my crystal ball showed awhile back (your crystal ball is funnier, nice touch on 8/9 re RMN.)
However, there’s no way Jeb Bush would be confirmed by the Senate as V.P.
T’will be time for torches and pitchforks…
Cliff Varnell @ 21
Laura Rozen and Knut Royce, to begin with.
And note that his has to be slapped down before it gets going:
Rocco Martino was apparently at that meeting
No one has ever claimed that Martino - who passed the forgeries around and may have been involved in their production - was at that Rome meeting in December 2001.
Can Conyers subpoena Ledeen?
RevDeb @ 10
Congradulations you lucky dog.
This is getting too exciting! The good guys have GOT to win this one.
Duh - Ledeen. I think Josh Marshall probably agrees, although he is too scrupulous to engage in such fun speculation.
How long do you think it will take him to respond?
http://pajamasmedia.com/xpress/michaelledeen/
[Mod Note; let’s not rush to give the man any extra traffic.]
Here is a time frame of the Niger Embassy theft in Rome http://www.shystee.com/shystee.....03_07.html
It seems pretty obvious that the break in was part of the administration plot. Cheney, Rummy, Chimp, who cares who was the final approval for the theft and forgery they are all guilty as hell.
Bring back the stocks!
Cliff Varnell @ 21
Oh yeah, and also Carlo Bonini, coauthor of Collusion, expert on the Niger forgeries, and subject of a Book Salon here where he was praised to heavens.
Ledeen is the guy we should send to gitmo (if we send anyone) before these draconian new laws are reversed.
beyond treason, let me count the ways.
weaving a tissue of lies: Ledeen Broderie?
selise and Lisa,
Haven’t made an offer on it and others to look at, but I’d be quite happy there. Mr. Rev. shows up Wed. night and we’ll go together on Thursday to look at it and others, but I’d be quite happy.
FYI, last time I looked for a house I looked at 50 or more before making a decision. This seems like it is meant to be.
Wait til the troops find out. They think they’re fighting the people who attacked us in 2001.
When they discover they went to war because their VP forged documents….
RevDeb @
27
Milbank’s snarky writeup.
Jeff @ 44
Bonini was also interviewed on Fresh Air.
It’s Ledeen and Hadley
Michael Ledeen. Oh yes! A fascist neocon nutcase. Preening pompous ass. He’s on this like flies on sh_t. Sent his daughter to Iraq in the Bremer days to thrash around and do nothing on the State Department’s dime. One of the college kids who knew nothing except how to infuriate anyone there who did. Thanks to Ole 60 grits husbands approval.
I defy McGovern to share the evidence. Otherwise he should stick to facts and truth - there are more than enough of ‘em to be a problem for this administration - and stop with the insinuations that he knows something. Which, by the way, he’s been at for months and months without ever offering the tiniest shred of evidence.
We need evidence or we end up like Dan Rather and the bush draft dodging scandal this could be a sucker play! Take a weakness and make it a strength isn’t that Karl’s favorite tactic. If Karl sets off a fake media buzz about fake evidence and gets us all hyped for impeachment then exposes his own fake story we lose! Why appear on Tucker’s show Keith Obermen pass on the story maybe a creditbilty problem? If Fox and the Rightwing media picks up this story quick and responds with ALL THE SAME TALKING POINTS AGAIN then we might have been had again! Karl is trying to deflate impeachment as an option BEFORE we get a REAL CASE. On the good side Karl HAS to be worried about something impeachable coming to light soon. Let’s wait until we got a better target!
selise @ 28
I’d found two houses online that interested me when I was fooling around one day. I was barely serious about looking for a house, but these two were in the absolute dream location for me. So I said what the hell and called up the realtor. The first house we wanted had gone into sale pending that very day. So we looked at the second one. It was love at first sight, for all of us (husband, son and me). Just the perfect home for us. We were living in it about a month later. Happy happy joy joy!
It happens.
Did Tucker Faye throw up his hands and say it doesn’t matter anyway because it no longer matters how we got into this mess. What is important is how to get out and the Democrats don’t have a plane. Then he squinches up his face to appear thoughtful.
Jeff @
53
Word.
We got enough to impeach the fucker up right now.
RevDeb @
10
Congratulations to the people that are going to have you as their minister. They are very fortunate.
omg. please, God, let it be so. and let’s hope this time we have the evidence to back it up. this would make an impeachable offense.
And who says that Cheney’s energy task force should remain anonymous?
Cheney has committed treason and should be subjected to the highest penalty allowed under the Constitution!!
Carla del Ponte was the other journalist mentioned with Rocco Martino, according to this reporting by Laura Rozen.
Katherine Graham Cracker @ 56
If fucker knarlson was any kind of journalist he would quit licking the ass of bushco and do some investigation of his own.
Ray Mcgovern was one of the first to speak out against Rumsfeld. He is a patriot.
lolo
Oklahoma kiddo @
12
I humbly beg to differ, OK. I greatly honor your opinions (most notably in the area of Her Royal Clintonness), but Bush is an empty suit. Rove is there to prop him up. Cheney is the evil power behind the throne. Cheney must go first!
Ray McGovern is one of the founders of Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity.
He has been travelling around the country, mostly at his own expense, and sleeping on people’s couches trying to get thsi story out.
I helped set up a speaking venure for him at a local university.
Jane, he not only can speak out, he wants to speak out, but if he shoots his whole wad on day one, and no one ever gets into the weeds following the trail, it will be easy to dismiss him and his story because the facts are necessarily complicated.
It’s like Libby. Unless the facts came out, drip drip drip, so that there was time to anylize and digest each piece before moving on the next, the American people would never have “gotten” it.
Well, McGovern’s story is just as complicated and subject to being buried in spin. And never forget what has happend to Sybil Edmonds.
This has to come out one bit at a time and other folks with pieces of the puzzle will need to start their engines now too.
McGovern’s not hold out on us, he is trying to give it in measured doses so we can digest it all
DC Madam on NPR, 5:24 EST.
puppethead @
9
Rove has his hand in everything. He is the guy behind the curtain(like in the Wizard of Oz).
Ray McGovern has tremendous credibility.
Most things about Ray McGovern have been pointed out already, but let me share the fact that Ray McGovern is a member of both the international and the USA ‘whistleblower’s club’. He has been instrumental in helping other whistle blowers come forward the way they’ve done.
He was also instrumental in helping Jesselyn Radack get her book published. (She is not the only one.)
http://www.patriotictruthteller.net or http://www.dailykos.com (She has been posting diaries there as well.)
skigurl @
39
of course he can. But Henry or Leahy would have an easier time of it.
What is the venue Ray seeks to tell what he knows? Could he have Condi’s open slot at Waxman’s hearing, since she seems likely not to show up? Showing interest in hearing from Ray McGovern might get Condi’s butt in a hearing room chair, pronto.
loosehead 65…
Agreed completely! But if Ray says there is something, I’m sure that he is working behind the scenes to protect other whistle blowers.
With what we do know so far, what rings true?
McGovern actually works for the Administration and is throwing out a red herring so that Rove can turn it around and use it for his own purposes.
McGovern is just throwing out an insinuation so that he can get booked on TV shows.
McGovern has definite evidence, and it will be coming out.
McGovern is the forger.
McGovern goes over the top sometimes in ways that hurt his credibility. Eg, at the Conyers basement hearing mentioned by RevDeb, McGovern made a lame attempt at glib humor that was so embarrassing that John Stewart held it up to ridicule that night.
If he’s got the goods, he should share them, and if not, he should hold his peace rather than make like a loose cannon.
BTW, a couple of years ago, Sy Hersh theorized that the Niger forgery may have been concocted not by the Cheney crew but by people at the CIA who wanted to embarrass the Administration by seeding their case for war with “evidence” so obviously bogus that it would call the rest of their manufactured case into question. Except that their plan backfired because they underestimated the incuriosity and credulity of Congress, the press, and the public.
I’d like to know if Hersh’s hunch has ever been definitively ruled out.
Just wait until the Sibel Edmonds stuff becomes common knowledge. That will be the end of the wingnuts FOREVER!
TeddySanFran @ 70
Great idea Teddy.
AJ @ 19
I believe you may be confusing Rocco Martino, with ANTONIO Martino, the Italian defense minister who was at a meeting with Ledeen during Dec. 2001.
Eureka Springs @
45
Tut. We Democrats don’t torture. But we can work something out. There are lots of soon-to-be-unemployed Republicans in Washington who would probably be thrilled to waterboard their best friend in exchange for a few sex-free massages and a golf outing in Scotland.
TeddySanFran @ 71
I don’t think venue is the issue per se, I think it is a matter of letting the story gain traction and having other people who can corroborate what he is saying feel that it is either safe enough to come out into the daylight, or that even if dangerous, it is still likely to be a successful effort and so therefore worth the sacrifice.
Remember, these are not rich people, these “career” civil servants.They have kids to put through college and retirements to worry about. Before you ask somebody to through away the security they have worked their whole lives for, you have to make it likely that their sacrifice will not be in vain.
ralphbon @ 73
This sounds too clever by half. If the CIA had wanted to make the Niger documents look like honest fakes,
they would have done a hell of a better job than whoever did it.
Okay,another naive observation but while were on the subject of everyone’s favorite Dick, why is there zero outrage over the fact that Doctor Evil continually reports a hefty seven figure taxable income each year from the VEEP-ship, when the only adult life private sector employment he ever had was in those years between 41 and 43 when he CEO’d at Halliburton? Let’s not even deal with the notion that no private sector experience 20 years of Gov’t contacts = “top dog.” That smells bad enough.
Out here in SoCal, this continuum of boxcar income levels for the VEEP make the Dukester seem like a rank amateur, but nobody says “boo?” The VP’s annual salary is a shade above $200,000 a year - where’d the other Million - Five come from last year? Or the 8 or 9 million in 2004 or 2005? Inquiring minds wanna know . . .
Maybe Waxman already has the evidence and that is why he wants to get Condi in. Don’t you legal eagles always say not to ask a question you don’t already have the answer to? Get them all in, one by one lying under oath, and then… KABLAMBO!
RevDeb @
48
Please check out a web site called zillow.com It can give you a lot of pertinent info about the house(s) and neighborhood including the basic specs and how others in neighborhood have sold.
ralphbon at 73 McGovern goes over the top sometimes in ways that hurt his credibility. Eg, at the Conyers basement hearing mentioned by RevDeb, McGovern made a lame attempt at glib humor that was so embarrassing that John Stewart held it up to ridicule that night.
If he’s got the goods, he should share them, and if not, he should hold his peace rather than make like a loose cannon.
Sooo, his joke fell flat and that means he’s not credible? Sorry.
I view him as a whistleblower of the first rank who is risking his life, quite literally, to bring us the truth.
Listen to looseheadprop, please?
The NeoCons are going to rue the day they messed with the CIA. They’re not like the front-line soldiers who go to battle without body armor, but can’t fight back against Bush. Nope. The CIA can use resources nobody’s even heard of to dig for information and then use it in the most plainly legal manner to destroy. Sure they get blamed for missing some things, but they’re always on the cutting edge and are bound to get cut now and then. In this “Niger documents” case all the evidence is just there waiting to be discovered and pieced together. There’s no opposing side which can really stop it.
Tenet may have held ‘em back, but don’t count ‘em out just yet.
Don’t mess with the spooks. Val knows where Georgie Boy lives.
OT..but the same stinking rot..
JUSTICE DEPARTMENT
Secret Order By Gonzales Delegated Extraordinary Powers To Aides
By Murray Waas, National Journal
National Journal Group Inc.
Monday, April 30, 2007
http://news.nationaljournal.co.....430nj1.htm
LS @ 73
NO, McGovern resigned from this administration so that he could speak out.
this guy has been travelling on his own dime for months trying to tell a story that brings him no personal sucess and could hold him up to ridicule if folks deride him as a nut
That’s the plan
That would make for a great spy novel
*g*
Looseheadprop I like your stuff and I don’t doubt this guy is on the side of the angels, but Dan Rather got fooled once and that disaster alone probably cost Kerry the election. We have to be careful. We have to see how quick and how the Right Wing Media responds to this story. Of course if this story is true left wing doubts about the story can only increase the hype as with a steady drip of facts that can be verifed we add to the tension. I suggest the left play this by acting all kinds of skeptical and keep demanding proof, the better to sustain the drama.
dakine01 @ 82
unsolicited advice: if the home of your dreams is already in contract, consider making a back-up offer. A lot of real estate transactions fall through. Although, ironically, the presence of an accepted back-up can get bring fussy buyers to their senses right quick.
looseheadprop @ 85
Nancy Drew 101…;P
RevDeb @ 48
Best luck!
dakine01 @ 82
Excellent site! Also http://www.coldwellbanker.com/ Learn…Home Value Estimate
This is nuclear! The ‘Mushroom Cloud’… ‘Smoking Gun’!!! Mixing and mauling metaphors, aughhhh…..
Betcha Ray knows the forger, though. (WAG)
1,502 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Jeff:
“I defy McGovern to share the evidence. Otherwise stick to the facts and truth..”
Now, brother Jeff, be careful who you “insinuate” isn’t tellin’ the truth…McGovern is a “professional” which means (in any line a work) his statements will reflect a code of ethics and reason. Beyond that, McGovern possesses something that few in political power have any appreciation for: intellectual honesty. His service to this country over 27 years for administrations of BOTH parties has earned himself a degree credibility that is beyond baseless attacks from folks like you.
So, unless you have some shops ta bring into the ring, Jeff, let me give you a friendly warnin’ that my old Grampa Ole used ta give charlatans and deadbeats that would sit at his poker table: “Don’t let your mouth write any checks that you ass can’t cash.”
Just a bit of advice that, if ya have even a pinch a sense, you’ll take.
KEEP THE FAITH AND WATCH OUT FOR TROLLS…THEY COME OUT WHEN THE WEATHER’S NICE!!
egregious @ 84
Unfortunately, McGovern has the problem that many honest, “Joe Friday- just the facts, Ma’am” types have. Whenever he tries to say something snarky or cynical, it just falls flat.
Which is not to say that he does not have a sense of humor. He does irony (my favorite form of humor) quite well.
things come undone @ 88
Listen Ray McGovern was the first to speak out about many things. Please listen! Looseheadprop is right!
OfT: The benefit of a single-term governorship, as (only?) Virginia has:
I am amazed that Tucker had him on his show. The times they are a changing!
Did Cheney go to great lengths to out CIA Agent Valerie Plame because Dick’s ego is really that big or is there more to it - such as Cheney’s complicity in passing the Niger forgeries if not actually writing them?
Protecting Dick Cheney’s ego or hiding treason - which is it? In the Libby trial, Libby’s defense was determined to push the timeline to May-July 2003 and was adverse to talking about December 2002. Why?
Look the CIA has been so incompetent for so long, it is hard to fathom who McGovern is or whether he has any degree of real competence. But it is for sure is that the Clintons appointed Tenet (And Anthony Lake their first choice was just a Cyrus Vance sycophant and not any better) and Tenet is the absolute bottom of the barrel. Stupid, incompetent, ambitious, the guy actually bonded with Bush.
lolo @ 98
That alone gives me pause, though.
Careful not to jump too far with this one!
Martino is a minor and probably unimportant character in this story - most likely just the delivery vehicle.
Unless Mr. McGovern has something more specific about Cheney’s direct involvement that he doesn’t want to tell us, this is ground that was covered 2-3 years ago. Check out Marcy’s (Emptywheel at Next Hurrah) and eRiposte’s (at Left Coaster) posts on the forgeries. And TPM of course. The so-called “secret” Ledeen /Ghorbanifar meeting in Italy is well known.
I wonder if Mr. McGovern will want to divulge any more on this topic? (Remember Seymour Hersh’s rather different suggestion about the origins of the documents, or at least how they got into the “system”).
things come undone @ 88
How about we do what we have been doing with the other scandals? Gather up all the open source material and organize it? Marcy’s got a ton of that research done already in cinnection with her book. You might be surprised
Joe Conason’s “It CAN Happen Here” (FDL Book Salon some months back) discusses Ledeen at some length. It was worth taking a break to type some of Conason’s ‘highlights’ about Ledeen:
Ledeen, p. 38 “… his name has frequently surfaced in twilight intrigues and questionable circumstances, occassionally drawing the attention of prosecutors both here and in Italy.…on more than one occasion, he has set up back-channel communications with foreign intelligence agencies…
— [studied and worked in Rome, probably late 1970s]… allegedly befriended some of the most disreputable characters on the Italian far right, including rogue intelligence agents…
— In the late 1970s, he is known to have advised SISMI, the Italian military intelligence service, on the subject of combatting terrorism…
— …played a central role in the Iran-Contra affair…suspected of involvement with the perpetrators of the Niger uranium forgeries, which reached the National Security Council via Italian intelligence agents…
— … worked with OSP… used … to circumvent the CIA and promote Chalibi’s WMD tales…”
p 40, “… He has called for total war, a term with terrible connotations of civilian carnage and merciless domination…[believes war will hasten] ‘creative destruction”
Ledeen is evidently an admirer of ‘creative destruction’ and has an affinity for fascism. Considers himself a scholar of the subject.
He is one of the few ‘foreign policy advisors’ regularly consulted by K-k-karl Rove.
IIRC, Condi has used the term ‘creative destruction’ when referencing war in the Middle East. Anyone recall?
———-
Lots more in Consason’s book, but I best get back to work (!).
Meanwhile, if Hannity swings by for a look-see, he would no doubt be shocked (shocked!) to learn that some lefty commenters are PTA members of long standing. Too bad that PTA moms like me are placing a ’stranglehold’ on the Democratic party.
Jane, you are clearly a very bad influence ;-))
TeddySanFran @ 100