Former US Attorney David Iglesias, from MSNBC's Hardball
Karl Rove is becoming everyone's favorite target again, and it's not because everyone wants to reach out and touch him. This time he's the investigative target of one of his own targets. More on that in a minute.
A year ago Rove escaped indictment in the Valerie Plame outing apparently because he had five chances to change his story tell the truth before the Grand Jury. Now he's become the focus of investigations into violations of the Hatch Act, violations of the laws requiring archiving of Presidential messages and potentially illegal political interference in the affairs of the Department of Justice, and because these are all tied together, they may yet all add up to obstruction of justice.
This week, the Administration left Alberto Gonzales and his shattered reputation on the perimeter of wagons that still encircle and protect Rove and the President. That was the meaning of President Bush' astonishing statement that Gonzales' testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee increased his confidence in his now discredited Attorney General. Dan Froomkin ascribed "Bush's Inexplicable Confidence" to stalling:
But does the White House really think this scandal will pass?More likely, Bush and his aides are stalling for time, hoping to keep the public in the dark about what really prompted the prosecutor purge for as long as possible, taking some pleasure in befuddling congressional investigators -- and letting Gonzales's limp corpse take fire that might otherwise be aimed at the White House directly.
Everyone else knows that Gonzales' effectiveness at an Attorney General ended with his appearance, and his dwindling value as a shield instead of just another embarrassment for the White House probably depends on how much effort Democrats continue to expend trying to force Gonzales' resignation when their real targets -- the folks who gave the compliant Gonzales his political instructions -- are in the White House. But Gonzales must be wondering why he continues to be the sacrifice when a growing number of people are pointing their fingers at Karl Rove.
Yesterday the media picked up on the LA Times story that revealed an obscure White House entity, the Office of Special Counsel, had initiated a broad investigation of several matters relating to the White House efforts to politicize not just the Justice Department but other parts of the federal government. And this investigation is inside the circle of wagons. Firedoglake's Eli highlighted that story last night.
The WaPo also carried the story yesterday, which was then picked up by the major television news shows last night. (Here are CBS and ABC and CNN.) According to the LA Times and WaPo stories, the initial focus was the powerpoint presentation Karl Rove's operatives did for General Services Administation officials early this year to encourge them to manage their offices to benefit Republican candidates, actions that would violate the Hatch Act.
J. Scott Jennings conducted the Jan. 26 videoconference in the political affairs office at the White House. His PowerPoint presentation, to as many as 40 Republican GSA political appointees, contained slides describing Democratic seats that the GOP planned to target in the next election and Republican seats that needed to be protected."That's the smoke," said an OSC staff member, who added that the OSC is looking at whether similar briefings occurred at other executive branch agencies.
As Eli noted, bloggers have been quick to urge that the head of OSC should not be trusted; emptywheel had this story two years ago (h/t cbl). On Countdown last night, Howard Fineman expressed the Beltway's (and Democrats') suspicions about how thorough and honest any internal White House investigation would be. But Administration officials have unboubtedly noticed that the Democrats have hired over 200 investigators to search under every rock in this scandal-plagued Administration. They must realize they need to at least look like they're doing their jobs.
I also suspect this obscure investigative unit took notice of what happened last month when Henry Waxman's Committee publically humilitated and upbraided the White House security officials for their failure to investigate who was responsible for exposing Valerie Plame's identity. With Waxman's Committee exposing their indifference to lawbreaking, and the White House showing its willingness to let even cabinet members fall on their swords, lower level bureaucrats can figure out that the rules are changing and be "encouraged" to start doing their jobs. If not, Waxman's Committee will be following up. In the meantime, to emphasize the point that they will no longer tolerate having the entire US Government become branches of the Republican Party, Congressional Democrats are already calling for the resignation of GSA's head, Lurita don't leave any fingerprints Doan for enabling the White House' apparent Hatch Act violations.
Nothing like a little oversight. Everyone in the Bush Administration knows the spotlight is coming.
And all that was written as I watched this:
Former US Attorney David Iglesias called into MSNBC's Hardball last night to answer questions about his forced resignation, the competence of Alberto Gonzales and the possible complicity of Karl Rove in the continuing politicization of the Justice Department. His comments were frank, revealing, and seemingly sincere; and unlike his former boss, he remembers the answer to every question. Iglesias pretty much validated the Democrats' argument that the White House still owes the American people answers to some tough questions about their role in politicizing the Justice Department. Here is a sampling:
-- Why does he think he was fired? "I believe the reason I was forced to resign was for not getting involved in political activities, in activities that could have assisted a member of Congress."
-- What was the issue? "Well, the election fraud was the initial problem, and then I think what broke the back, so to speak—the straw that broke the camel’s back was the non-rushing of politically sensitive corruption cases against Democrats in New Mexico."
-- Is there evidence that Rove broke the law? "There are some emails—there is some evidence. It is circumstantial now. I believe if OSC digs in, they can get direct evidence establishing that link."
-- Is he (Iglesias) a Republican? Yes.
-- If he were investigating this case, where would he look to find out why the eight US Attorneys were forced to resign and whether it was improper? Monica Goodling is the key, he said. She was not only the counsel to Gonzales but also the liaison between the Justice Department and the White House. Everything would have been going through her, so it's important to get her testimony.
But here's the bombshell:
MATTHEWS: Mr. Iglesias, was your complaint to the Office of Special Counsel the reason for this investigation of Karl Rove?DAVID IGLESIAS, FIRED U.S. ATTORNEY: It—it—it could have started the ball rolling, yes. This is something I filed back on April 3 of this year.
MATTHEWS: Well, April 3 is not that long ago. What—what, in terms of the timeline, leads you to believe that your - that your complaint led to this probe?
IGLESIAS: Well, based on Special Counsel having powers to investigate where the evidence goes. I actually filed a Hatch Act complaint against Gonzales, McNulty, Kyle Sampson, and Monica Goodling. And I think OSC is already getting information, getting documents produced from the Justice Department and possibly from the White House already.
[snip]
MATTHEWS: Why did you go to them if you thought they might be feeble? You must have some confidence that going to them would get you some justice here, as you see it.
IGLESIAS: Because their entire mission is to bring enforcement actions against the executive branch of the federal government. Also, their deputy is a military reservist, and I’ve got a lot of faith and confidence in him and in Mr. Bloch.
To borrow a line from Christy, it's not smart to upset prosecutors, Karl. They don't go away. And I just have to smile, because you can bet Marcy's off in the weeds looking for what various parties were saying/doing starting after April 3.
Login Here
Share This
Spotlight
‘morning!
Bloch up now on CNN. Will he be asked about the dump of all those backlogged whistleblower cases?
Good morning, pups!
Sadly, I just don’t have much hope in this Bloch guy who is a Bush stooge.
Though, perhaps he has some sort of guilt-ridden conscience to actually do his job finally. Or maybe this is just an act to buy until the end of the term before anything on this happens.
Meanwhile, the blogwhore. Maureen Dowd in History — writes about Gandhi
as froomkin says, it’s all about the stall.
though i am of a mind to believe that at least some of the investigations will bear fruit AFTER these thieves are out of government. at the very least, it’ll hamper their job hunts in the corporate community.
i cannot get truly jazzed by the OSC investigation — it is, after all, an investigation handled by the administration. for me, it’s another chance to whitewash. on the other hand, nothing’s better than prosecutors craving credibility. and i’d so like to be pleasantly surprised.
Karl Rove is becoming everyone’s favorite target again, and it’s not because everyone wants to reach out and touch him.
oooo, delicious snark!
Yeah, I think that OSC’s investigation is a classic shell game. “Look Mom, I AM cleaning my room, really!”
I really think Bloch’s mission is to police-up any loose e-mails, texts and powerpoints before Congressional investigators can get their hands on them.
We could use subpoenas from Waxman today for Rove and Miers - that would ‘freeze’ all related documents, including the ‘talking points’ powerpoint lecture to the GSA.
Attaturk @
4
I had my doubts as well, based on Bloch’s Bushie status and track record. But I have to admit I see a glimmer of hope with Iglesias’ mention of a deputy that is a reservist — it’s a message to Bloch that he’s not only being watched from the outside by the Oversight Committee and the public, but on the inside by real law enforcement folks.
Would not be surprised at all to see Bloch step down to spend more time with family in the near future if he can’t do the job to the letter of the law, either.
Good morning, Scarecrow,
I didn’t hold out much hope that this OSC investigation would lead to much, seeing as how there actually a part of the executive… But when you’ve got an (apparently) aggrieved US attorney, well, I suppose that hope springs eternal.
-MS
What’s up with Monica Goodling these days? They need to get her to spill the beans. Can Congress ask for a Special Prosecutor to investigate?
Attaturk @
4
I kind of agree. This is a sideshow. It could amount to something, but I doubt it.
The WH should also be in trouble for NOT investigating Rove for leaking classified info. By law, an investigation should have occured. No investigation did, so laws were broken.
Is Condi’s subpeona coming up today? I know she said yesterday she had better things to do than talking to Congress.
wow! excellent post, here, scarecrow!
i knew it would be a good idea to
stop here, first, this morning — you’ve
nailed down a lot of the details that were
just emerging as i went to bed last night.
so thanks, and kudos!
i do think bloch is going to act, in part
to draw attention away from many of his
prior failings and misdeeds, but i simply
love the idea that iglesias trusts his
deputy. . . there’s nothing quite like
having an “outsider on the inside of an
investigation“. . . of course, this could
all go sideways, again — but right now it
looks pretty darn promising. . .
finally his saying that monica goodling
has “the keys to the kingdom. . .” rings
true to me — she was the communication
port between justice and the white house.
so — it is perfect timing that in an hour
and a half, rep john conyers’ house judiciary
committee will vote on immunity, and a subpoena
with ms. goodling’s name on it. . .
yes. now — off to see how rep. henry waxman’s
subpoena of condi rice is coming along. . .
g’mornin’ all. . .
I also watched the Hardball interview last night. Another little snippet I picked up on: Iglesias stated that if he were the investigator, he would be requesting not only E-mails but also Memorandum’s. Iglesias stated that nothing happens in the DOJ without it being documented. I bet Monica has some pretty interesting Memo’s that are being held on to.
Twisted Martini @ 7
Henry will look in the closet AND under the bed.
Condi is likely to get harpooned by Tenet this weekend in conjunction with the release of his book.
Now is the time to subpoena her, before accusations of ‘partisan political hit jobs’ start flying after 60 Minutes.
Good morning, gang. Lots of other stuff going on today. Iraq’s coming apart. The war funding bill is up for grabs. New investigations starting.
Re OSC, it may be helpful to have OSC perceived as part of the coverup. The image gives further justification for tough Congressional investigations, and it may induce OSC to actually do something besides whitewash/stall. It certaintly can’t help the WH to have its own investigative branch claiming it needs to examine Karl Rove’s entire operations. But for now, there is enough rolling of eyes around the blogs to shift the planet’s rotation.
GeorgeSimian @ 13
yup. 10 a.m. no word on whether it will be televised.
Rayne @ 9
Yeah, that was interesting, wasn’t it? — and it looks like Matthews was primed to ask the question about OSC credibility.
Good early morning from L.A.
Excellent post this a.m., Scarecrow.
Another very interesting writeup on Bloch appears in the latest issue of Mother Jones (h/t to Anna Perenna):
Don’t Whistle While You Work
Washington Monthly
Kevin Drum,
June 28, 2006
“HE TRULY ENJOYS GETTING PEOPLE TO KNUCKLE UNDER”….I’m reading Ron Suskind’s The One Percent Doctrine right now, and it’s been an odd experience. Yes, it has quite a few anecdotes that make George Bush and Dick Cheney look bad, but at the same time it frequently paints a fairly sympathetic portrait of them as men who are reacting as well as anyone could to the furious real-time cascade of genuinely frightening and confusing events in the early days after 9/11.
More on that later, though. For now, here’s one of those anecdotes instead. It’s set at Harvard Business School in 1975, where Bush was captain of his class’s basketball team. His team is playing the Class of ‘76 team:
The game was tight. The other team’s captain, Gary Engle…went up for a shot. Bush slugged him — an elbow to the mouth, knocking him to the parquet. “What the hell are you doing?” Engle remembers saying. “What, you want to get into a fistfight and both of us end up in the fucking emergency room?” Bush just smiled.
Moments later, at the other end of the court, Engle went up high for a rebound and felt someone chop his legs out from under him. Bush again. Engle jumped up and threw the ball in Bush’s face. The two went at it until two teams of future business leaders leapt on their captains, pulling them apart. Engle, angry and vexed by what had happened, began wondering why the hell Bush would have done what he did. He lost his composure, and his team lost its leader.
A few years later, Engle…bumped into Jeb Bush….Engle, a Republican contributor, had thought from time to time about his game against George. Nothing like that had happened to him before or since. This was his chance to get a little insight about it. He told the story. Jeb kind of laughed, Engle recalled. “In Texas, they call guys like George ‘a hard case.’ It wasn’t easy being his brother, either. He truly enjoys getting people to knuckle under.”
IrishJim @ 15
so true. we live and breathe memos here. I’m still waiting to see the delegation of authority memo that gave Gonazalez (or was it Sampson) the authority to fire US Attorneys.
re goodling, man i sure hope conyers’ folks know what they’re doing. i still blanch when i remember how the immunity deals worked to the advantage of the crooks in iran-contra.
as for bloch, i agree that it might merely be a bid — let’s make that probably is a bid — by the white house to gum up congressional subpoenas. “can’t turn those over, we have an investigation of our own, doncha know.”
I love the people who newly discover their ethics.
David Iglisias and many of the repuke USAs were silent and played along with the rovians until they got pilloried as imcompetants in the press… many were willing to just go on to greener pastures and let another repuke USA take over. Look at Minneapolis.
If there’s a republican around… there’s criminal activity going on or being covered up.
ok, I posted this down stairs not expecting to be around when it was aprapos but I believe it’s aprapos here
I have twelve hour work day today and I don’t think I’ll be able to visit today
I know this is off topic and if someone wants to repost it on a thread that’s more on point please feel free;
I had an Epiphany this morning reading the following from think progress;
I believe I came up with a scenario that would work and all we have to do is organize the strategy
look, the new leadership of the republican party are not republicans, they are fascists who have high jacked the party and their constituents
this is a fact not a speculation, there is nothing republican about this leadership…they are “neo cons” but they are not “extra concervative” they are radical in every sense of the word
so to restate
this leadership is neither republican nor Conservative and they have high jacked the party and their constituents
therefore, since the real republicans don’t want to be tossed from power for at least a generation, which is what will happen if they don’t do something about this administration. they can do something that will save their party and possibly save their jobs;
they can ouster the neo cons and their movement from the party
I don’t mean they should start a new party for themselves, I mean they should literally throw these fascists out of their party and reclaim their integrity.
now, I don’t know if they can actually do this legally but they can sure do it rhetorically
I GUARANTEE there are republicans that will get on board a movement like that
they are now hostages and all they have to be is enabled
once they effectively remove these fascists from their party impeachment will be WEEKS away, not months but weeks.
they will simply march into this administrations office and say in no uncertain terms;
“you will be voted out of office in the senate or you will resign, one or the other but you will no longer be president or vice president”
look, I’ve said it before and I need to keep saying it;
we CANNOT afford to keep these people in office and here is a NEW reaspn why
every single step they get closer to loosing power they will do more and more harmful, they will be more and more insistant, they will put more and more of their pals in positions that make it impossible to remove
we MUST deal with the republicans, we MUST get thises criminals OUT of goverment, they are destroying everything we have and creating havens across the globe for what they have stolen from us, the Iraqi’s and the world
WE MUST DEAL
and it’s simple too…these republicans do NOT want to give up their seats in government and we can point out how much easier it will be if they deal
we will allow some of their seats to go uncontested
we will give them some pork, something to take home, we will do whatever it takes to help them reclaim their party and our country
it will be SIMPLE for them to throw the administration under the bus…SIMPLE
all they have to do is like so;
“the evidence we have now seen makes it clear these people have destroyed our constitution, they have tried to turn this country into a fascist state and they are not republicans they are fascists”
time for the democrats to put an end to the damage done by these fasicists and they need the republcian party to do that
the REAL republicans will be HAPPY to reclaim their party by REMOVING the fasicists from their leadership
TiredFed @ 15
And peel up the carpet.
Also interesting on CNN this morning [look for repeat snippets during the day] — Roberts’ conversation with Jessica Lynch. And Barbara Starr reporting on the press release about why not flags for soldiers flying at half staff.
She talked about the rituals observed at Bagram and the questions being asked about why there’s no official honor back at home. Right in the same playbook as the hush-hush return of remains to Dover.
And the Coontz family tragedy–their serviceman hung himself at Walter Reed and wasn’t found for TWO DAYS. [video report at ABC News]
This is the class warfare, folks. Bushie and the Titans’ disdain for our military as people, not just their pawns on the gameboard.
IrishJim @ 15
let’s hope waxman get that message and contact iglesias for more insights which I’m sure he is holding on to for a more effective venue
Great post, as per usual, scarecrow.
TiredFed @
16
And betweeen the mattress and the boxspring.
Lovely post, Scarecrow. Firepupz are keep that heat on ‘em.
TiredFed @ 19
On CSPAN 3 at 10. Not sure if Oversight website will webcast (that one works for me but not CSPAN. go figure).
Here’s my thoughts on Bloch:
So Waxman is holding a business meeting consider subpeonas for 4 individ: toSecretary of State Condoleezza Rice, Andrew Card, Mike Duncan for Republican National Committee documents, and Fred Fielding for contacts between the White House and MZM.
mui @ 32
I would like waxman to excersize all legal physical force he is entitled to enforce these subpeonas
I want anyone that refuses subpeona arrested and held in contempt
good morning, pups - coffee is ready.
and little bit of justice to go with it!
perris @ 26
Perris, you are on to something. let’s hope the talent picks this up and runs with it. There needs to be a Republican groundswell to get to 2/3s in the Senate.
HotFlash @ 30
aww. please dont look there! we’ve seen enough Republican p0rn havent we? (only kidding - look everywhere!)
TiredFed @ 35
I believe I am on to something…this is not their party, they need to be enabled to reclaim it, that enablement will come from a republican “roots project” to remove the fascists from their party.
we can get the ball rolling you know, like you say, the power brokers on the republican side need to be shown a little mappypoo and the democrats can show encourage the map with some dealing
ok, off to work for the day, will probably miss the fun
have a good time all
perris @ 33
It’s been done before. From the Senate’s own website:
On March 26, 1848, the Senate arrested a journalist and imprisoned him in a Capitol committee room.
(snip)
Under questioning, Nugent refused to disclose his sources to Senate investigators, saying only that in this instance they were neither senators nor Senate officers. The frustrated investigating committee thereupon ordered him to be arrested and confined to one of the Senate’s committee rooms. As the Herald retaliated by publishing the names of the Senate’s most cooperative leakers, Nugent spent his captivity in comfort, receiving a doubled salary while issuing his regular columns under the dateline “Custody of the Sergeant at Arms.” Each evening he accompanied the sergeant at arms to that officer’s home for a good meal and a comfortable night’s sleep.
Hit ‘em with the folding chair Henry!
Iglesias is showing other people of principle how it is done.
He’s got “A Few Good Men” behind him.
TiredFed @ 38
Didn’t Tom Delay lock everyone in a room once?
They must realize they need to at least look like they’re doing their jobs.
Bush has never had that realization trouble his beautiful mind.
Rayne @
9
Tom Hamburger’s article in yesterday’s LATimes had me excited, but some of the wiser heads dampened my enthusiasm by pointing out that Bloch is a Bushie and not likely to be helpful. Subsequent googling on Bloch was anything but reassuring.
But, now, all Republican’s have to choose sides. They can side with this lame-duck administration that has made preparations for a coup but has never been able to do anything competently. Or, they can side with the patriots who are trying to re-establish the rule of law. Every Republican has to decide.
Or as you suggest, they can choose to spend more time with their family.
man it is hard to leave the lake once we get started isn’t it?
must post before I go, from think progress, very very nice;
now let’s tie that in with this;
the president has been trying to make believe his surge is succesful, it is counter productive and he knows it
the democrats need to ride on THAT train
Good Morning Scarecrow and Firedogs,
that would be James Renne
and I see nothing in the links so far to validate Mr. Yglesias’ trust in Mr. Renne
these two have been busy with all the usual Loyal Bushie crap - homophobia, sexism, professional clumsiness, running off career professionals and replacing them with Ave Maria Law School grads, and advocating for fundies and fundie ideas even when far outside departmental purview
and both have been dismissive of Henry’s work in the past
and oh yeah Scarecrow, I found that emptywheel link last night and had a satsifying chuckle imagining the Lioness deftly stalking on the veldt :)
There’s an aspect of the Hatch Act that seems to be frequently misunderstood by journalists (Dana Milbank on Countdown last night being the most recent.) They talk about the Hatch Act stopping federal workers from engaging in political activity. While that’s what it does directly, its purpose is to protect workers from being pressed into service by political appointees for fear of their jobs.
The distinction is important, and every federal worker and relative (my dad worked for the government) understands it. Makes me wonder whether it’s just a simple misunderstanding by high-level journalists, or a hint that the government people they socialize with at the Correspondents’ Dinner think of it as being a law for the “little people.”
Perris #26 said: the new leadership of the republican party are not republicans, they are fascists who have high jacked the party and their constituents
perris @ 44
Unless there’s a retired Texas Air National Guard General in the group, the Decider’s not going to pay much attention.
I’m all aglow for Scarecrow’s post. I’m trying to remember the last time I was so pinktickled with news….Wait, oh yeah, the frackin libby trial, and then there was the Gonzo ordeal, and the “Everyone knows Rove’s at bottom” thread, and Goodling, and Plame and……..! I forgot where I was for a moment.
Love ya all!
Tgrdug
Our Military can justifiably cite Political failure in Iraq as the reason we lost the War.
Our troops have done everything, and more, they’ve been asked to do. It’s not their fault that pure political folly proved beyond them to save.
Let’s bring them home.
Assuming Dems win WH and both houses in 2008:
It looks like there is evidence developing for a Congressional finding that Bush has deliberately politicized the civilian workforce in federal agencies in the past (just read at TPM about current Mo. USA who refused to hire non-Republicans).
To my mind, all hires since 2001 are suspect. It justifies passing a law permitting a one-time suspension of federal job protection practices, and letting a new administration fire them all.
Bob in Arkansas, USA @ 47
It’s the end result of selling out to the Bush family.
radiofreewill @ 50
we did NOT loose the war, we lost an occupation, our military completed every military assignment and they won the war
they are not a political arm of the government, they are not an occupying force, they are not painters of schools, they are not diplomats and they are not a free police for the Iraqi’s
it’s the president’s moronic post war agenda that failed, NOT our military
Tired Fed — that story sounds almost civilized. 1848.
congrats S.O.S. and Mrs. S.O.S. !
and everyone hit the tivo - Tonight is Bill Moyers on PBS
cbl @ 45
IMO, that trust seems more like insight into the psychology of Iglesias and partly why he’s still a Republikan. Even though he’s a prosecutor, he’s got a less than cynical view of the leadership. perhaps.
IrishJim @ 15
Wanna bet the paper trail is long gone? Paper much easier to eliminate than erocords.
I have been saying this for quite some time! Perhaps the neo-cons that seized the party should now go out and form their own party!!
cbl — I like that image of the lioness. I meant to give you a h/t — refresh.
And I just have to smile, because you can bet Marcy’s off in the weeds looking for what various parties were saying/doing starting after April 3.
In Costa Rica, most people use a machete to cut weeds, a really, really sharp one!
Bob in Arkansas, USA @ 58
the republicans should FORCE them into forming their own party
that might save their jobs and we can make it easier for them to keep their jobs if they get on that bus
ok, really got to go
by all
eCAHNomics @ 57
Maybe Miss Monica would hold onto something though, for a little insurance perhaps?
Redshift @ 46
that’s certainly my understanding. we cant participate in partisan political activities and cannot be forced to do so by others (including the boss). it’s why that story of the GSA “brownbag” meetings with White House politicos made the hair on the back of my neck stand up. If I had been there, I would have walked out.
Redshift @ 46
Yes, and I should have been clearer that the folks in trouble are the ones who arranged (Rove and Doan) and gave (their minions) the presentations, not necessarily those who had to watch it.
Badwater @ 52
This started long before Bush was in office. It really started to become apparent to many of us when Nixon left office. As much as I dislike the Chicken in Command, this one is not on him or his family.
perris @ 37
I am less optimistic. I agree that Republicans at the level of a “roots project” aren’t in agreement with the fascists, the actions of the rubberstamp Congress mean that most national Republicans are hip deep in this stuff, and have benefited greatly. We’ve been able (to some extent) to show our recalcitrant Democrats the way on the war and progressive policies by getting out in the streets and winning, but if grassroots Republicans help restore real functioning government, a lot of their top people will be out on the street or in jail, which may make them less cooperative even if it would be better for the party.
In short, I think saner people can reclaim the GOP, but I think they’ll have to lose bigger than they did in ‘06 before it happens.
But who knows, maybe if it looks obvious that they are going to lose that big in ‘08, enough of ‘em will decide that if the White House is going to sink, perhaps their own involvement can be passed off as “old news,” and manning the torpedoes from the other side will hurt them less than going down with the ship.
mui @ 56
David Iglesias should be the poster boy for the Republican party. Instead, they get Gonzales! And Rove!
thanks scarecrow! not necessary but thanks
mui - yeah, I suspect Iglesias is something of a babe in the woods - although I had a tin foil adjusting moment where I thought maybe Iglesias did it just to throw some sunlight on Blochworld and it’s nefarious ‘accomplishments’ and how in fact it may be some kind of key to USA scandal
and hey! did everyone see TPM made a connection via AP between Renzi and the USA Scandal ?!?!?
TPM
If there was nothing in the papers or missing emails that the WH and DOJ refuse to hand over, they would hand them over. I think that’s fairly obvious and I know everyone here agrees with that.
perris at 53
Point well taken on the framing difference between losing a War and losing an Occupation!
I wonder how the soldiers on the ground see it?
eCAHNomics @ 57
haha. you should see how many cc’s and bccs plus distribution copies there are for govt. memos. we kill a lot of trees around here! for every memo sent, there are literally thousands of copies. unless it’s one of those insta-declassify memos from Bush/Cheney.
cbl @ 55
Bill Moyers was on democracynow for about 45 minutes this morning. Made me mad all over again. Some of the clips he will show tonight are the W war marketing team, and, like the Jon Stewart clips, really make the point when they are stacked up next to each other.
BTW, Moyers is also doing a regular Fri nite program, starting this Friday. Josh Marshall will be a guest. He singled out Jon Stewart (”the Mark Twain of our time”) & Josh as the new media that are taking over & truth telling while the old media rot. Had a particularly nice desciption of how it works in the lefty blogs, of how all the participants contribute information, which acts like the biggest business news bureau in the world.
Bob in Arkansas, USA @ 58
they were smart enough to steal one that was easy to hoodwink. wonder if Republicans have the cojones to take their party back.
Redshift @ 66
What y’all have failed to consider is that the grass root Republicans have abandoned the party and are now here amongst you and helping to defeat the Neo-Con Republican party that now has control! How do I know this? I am one of them! The Democratic Party today is what the Republican Party used to be!
I spoke with a gay buddy of mine in my antiwar group about Rove shreiking when Sheryl Crow touched him. I questioned how Rove could possibly call himself a real, red-blooded American male. My buddy responded “Yeah, Rove is, ‘one of us,’ he’s a real queen. But yeah, he acted lke a real asshole. No manners or decency at all.”
perris @ 61
Perris - get outta here already. Me, I’m waitin’ for Henry to come on the toobz!
Perris says, “the REAL republicans will be HAPPY to reclaim their party by REMOVING the fasicists from their leadership”
Not only must these fascists be removed but they must be indicted, convicted and sentenced. For those guilty of treason they must be sentenced with the appropriate punishiment. This might get ugly but it’s imperative that those responsible for this authoritarian coup must be held responsible for their crimes. To give them a pass only assures that they will be back at some point in the future, even more threatening and dangerous.
From the Sacramento Bee:
Still doing little
Bob in Arkansas, USA — welcome home.
TiredFed @ 63
I think it’s also significant that the Washington Post has to pay attention to. (Fred Hiatt can’t just push it to A17 for his Republican pals.) While they’re a national newspaper, a large portion of their subscribers are federal workers, who understand this intimately. “Editorial decisions” could be made on other scandals that they were really executive branch matters (intelligence, war, etc.) or that they mostly involved battles between political appointees, or between appointees and Congress, but this one hits close to home.
I dunno about the difference between winning a war and winning an occupation. I think historically, war has been about taking or defending territory. and if you cannot hold the territory you have allegedly won, or keep your guy in control of the government (and they won’t be able o in the long run), how can you be said to have won the war? When you are eventually going to have to leave the country, probably in some disgrace?
TiredFed @
35
I completely agree with this. What is more, I think that many in the Dem leadership is aware of this. I am struck in my watching of the way Leahy and Waxman chair their committees, by the way in which they NEVER insult minority members, regardless of how obnoxious some of them become. Allowing a defeated foe to save some face goes a long way in war, business and politics.
But beyond that, I come from a family of old-fashioned Republicans. I come from a state which used to be populated with them (Vermont, who gave us Senators Aiken, Stafford and Jeffords). These men were genuinely “conservative” — in fact they were so conservative that they were true conservationists (if not always environmentalists, an interesting distinction!). These were the same republicans who were willing to hold Nixon’s feet to the fire (I remember the questioning of Republicans on the Watergate committee very well). And indeed they were successful in creating a firewall between their party and Nixon’s White House. Perhaps too successful–and too scared/desperate in that they subsequently allowed “facist” elements to move into positions of power (ie, the Reagan “revolution”).
Politics is always about making deals. The Dems hold the upper hand. There are obviously some very smart people in power in Congress now, and it is my hope that they are moving forward very carefully and thoughtfully. My guess is that some of the most damning truths will not be fully known until after 2008. Important groundwork is being laid now.
On that note, I was incredibly encouraged to see that Hillary turned up here yesterday, as it is entirely possible that she could be our next president. What that means is that the Dem leadership is paying close attention to the work that is being done by muckraking blogs like FDL, TPM, The Next Hurrah etc, etc. And learning from it!
If Reagan were alive, he would be a Democrat (again)!
[Modnote: please don’t requote more than twice, thank you]