
The WaPo has a summary of this morning's proceedings up. As does the NYTimes.
And a gentle reminder to please keep comments on topic to the proceedings -- the more one-liners and off-topic comments that fill the thread, the faster I have to change up due to server load, and that disrupts the flow of the liveblogging. So please, think whether it is necessary before you comment -- impulse control is our server's best friend. Thanks much!
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SEN. KYL QUESTIONS: Kyl agrees with what Whitehouse says. AG says that the do not want to send the message that prosecutors should not follow the evidence and prosecute. Kyl asks whether there has been any difference in how things are prosecuted? AG says not to his knowledge, but that he has limited information on how this is handled in individual USA office, for good reason. Kyl then tweaks Schumer for what he regards as an incorrect conspiracy standard being raised. Kyl wants to thank the AG about crime victims rights -- and wants to get the AG's help in setting up a meeting on that. And then talks about internet gaming prosecutions. (CHS notes: Talk about your off-topic blather...and it goes on and on and on.)
SEN. LEAHY QUESTIONS: Late last week, we learned that a number of e-mails, including those from Karl Rove, were on RNC servers and that they may have been lost. Rove's attorney (Luskin) has suggested that Patrick Fitzgerald might have those e-mails from his investigation. If the DoJ has that information, what would we have to do to get those e-mails? Gonzales doesn't know about this. Leahy asks whether the committee could get those? We aren't talking about e-mails from the President, he doesn't use e-mail as I understand it? Gonzales says if they were transmitted over RNC servers, the WH might still have an interest. The WH Counsel's office responsible for this, you were there for 4 years, what was the policy and practice for WH employees using RNC and other outside e-mail accounts to use official WH/government business? AG says that there were a few people who used outside equipment -- done to avoid problems with the Hatch Act. Intent of the policy was for those e-mails to be used for non-governmental purposes but if there were governmental transactions, that the communication ought to be preserved. AG says he thinks that the policy was that it should have been preserved -- printed or forwarded througha government server. WH spokesperson has said close to 50 people had this equipment? As WH counel did you audit this or review it at all? Is anyone investigating this issue now? AG says that he thinks the counsel's office may be looking to see what happened here based on what he's said, but hasn't spoken to the WH Counsel's Office about this. Leahy says that you have been AG since 2005, have you done anything to make sure that Mr. Rove or his deputies have not used outside accounts for official government business. What was Goodling's role in choosing attorneys for termination? AG says he doesn't know everything she did. She, in essence, supported Mr. Sampson -- she was WH liaison for the office. Have you told us all that you can recall, because there is a loack of discussion about conversations with Miers and Rove, among others? The AG says that he suspects that the committee members know more about what happened than he did with their review of al the materials. Ag says that he's told the committee everything he can remember. AG can't recall specifically the President telling him to fire a USAtty. Leahy says he wants to know which statement is the accurate one -- goes through a litany of statements which all contain conflicting information. Which is the accurate statement? AG says that he hasn't intentionally said different things, and he accepts responsibility for his misstatements.
SEN. SPECTER QUESTIONS: Wants to talk about VT and threats to public safety. Wants to talk about amendments to law. (CHS notes: Am detecting a new GOP off-topic questioning strategy designed to emphasize all of the issues that the AG has to deal with on a day to day basis. It is the Scooter Libby my hard job hurts my brain defense all over again.) Now on to National Security Letters and the Patriot Act powers being misused. What have you done to make certain that these problems have been corrected? AG says he has asked the FBI and the national security division to work together to find out what happened -- involved in the oversight and auditing of field offices so we have a better idea of what is ongoing. (CHS notes: Beacause, you know, another study by committee really fixes the problem, doesn't it?) Specter now goes on to FISA information provided to Leahy and himself -- saying that the regular proceeding would be followed instead of the bypass that the President was doing of the Court. Specter says he would like to know the specifics and details to provide probable cause in light of the tremendous number of interceptions involved here, and more specifically of the quality of the factors required to establish probable cause on communications coming from outside the US in...and what is the apporach for the legislative changes. Want responses in writing.
SEN. FEINSTEIN QUESTIONS: I want to know how this list was compiled. Sampson said he didn't put people on the list -- "I was the aggregator." Ballard said he had "no input." Mercer didn't know -- said he just expressed concerns as they came up -- and Gonzales testified this morning that he didn't know. Feinstein says that she wants to know how this list was compiled. AG says he doesn't recall. AG doesn't recall seeing this document, nor does he recall the meeting at which it was distributed. Republican Senators get the call where there is one in that particular state, in states where Democrats are Senators, the "political lead" gets the call. Not the Democratic Senator. "The talking point is that the Administration made the decision to seek the resignation." Feinstein says we still do not know who selected the individuals who were on that list. AG stammers and then says that he expected that Sampson would talk to folks at the Department and elsewhere and then would come to him with a recommendation. (CHS Notes: which doesn't really answer the question, now does it?) Feinstein says that 7 of the 8 were involved in public corruption prosecutions -- and no one knows to this moment who recommended their dismissal. Feinstein says that Rove was involved with the Cummings dismissal, the President involved in Iglesias, and that Miers mentioned something about Deborah Yang from LA -- now she resigned and wasn't part of all this. How could you say as little as 3 weeks ago that the WH didn't play a role in adding ot taking off names? AG says just because the President expressed a problem with a particular attorney, that the AG doesn't see that as influencing the process. Feinstein goes on to discuss the EARS reports and the fact that these prosecutors have stellar peer reviews. How did these people get on this list? AG: Gosh, I sure would like to know the answer to that question. But I don't know and all I can tell you is that I don't know the answer. (CHS notes: the aw shucks answer on this is less than credible, to put it mildly.) Feinstein says that it seems to her that the AG would want to know the answer to that -- these people were very young and sometimes very ideological people. Battle says that when he called these USAs, it was a shot out of the blue -- they had not been told there were problems, and these people were told "you must leave." AG says they should have done this differently. With regard to Lam, the AG says he thinks Lam knew that there were concerns from Congress. Feinstein cuts him off and says that if she were employed by the DoJ, she would want to know what her boss was thinking about her work, not what some outside person was thinking.
SEN. HATCH QUESTIONS: In an aggrieved tone, "I think we would all agree, you would agree, that this was poorly handled...how often do you have to be flagellated about this?" Going on about the AUSAs actually handling the cases, not the USA. (CHS notes: Hatch continues with his lead the witness pattern of questioning.) Why were some of the USAs not removed -- crossing this line is wrong, Hatch says, in a very disgusted tone of voice, just horribly improper. AG says that the perception issue is something about which he is very concerned. Now asking office of professional responsibility to look into this matter -- AG says this is very serious, he's recused himself of oversight in this matter. Hatch just wants to be sure that there is evenhandness about this.
SEN. LEAHY QUESTIONS: I just want to be sure -- does the OPR operate outside political interference? AG says yes. Leahy asks whether they are subject to political influence? AG not certain what you are saying. Leahy says that he's thinking about the OPR look into the NSA domestic spying and decisionmaking, and that the investigation was curtailed because the President cut off their access to the information.
NOTE: I need to run and pick up The Peanut from preschool in a little while. I will pause the hearing on my DVR and resume when I get back. Just wanted to give everyone a heads up on this. Mr. ReddHedd is, unfortunately, stuck in a meeting and unless he gets out early, I'll have to go around 4:30 pm ET and will be back as quickly as I can.
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leahy!
Toast!
Zed? Go Christy! Missed it…
Can Christy or Marcy comment (perhaps later) on the subject Leahy is pursuing now in re Fitzgerald’s possession of Rove’s emails?
Thanks AGAIN!
Presidential records transmitted over RNC??
Gonzo can’t answer about the emails. He’s dancing hard.
Leahy:
You were WH counsel. What was the policy with using the email for Rove et al?
What was the policy of Rove using e-mails?
What was your policy of oversight?
He still isn’t answering about the policy.
Please ask did you even get and e-mail for the potus? ever?
Why was Rove using RNC email account for governmental business? Abu saying it was done for legitimate reasons. Not against the Hatch act.
Leahy–here’s teh question you need to ask:
Gonzales: Did Karl Rove turn over the emails relating to Plame in the initial disclosure? You reviewed EVERY one of the files from WH. Did Rove include the RNC emails?
Abu: We were worried about Hatch Act.
L: What was the policy? Could they conduct official business?
A: If there was governmental bus done, they should have kept them.
Gonzo’s saying the stuff should have been preserved!
Leahy: What was policy for using RNC email for official biz?
Abu: User was legit, for political activity.
Leahy: What was policy:
Abu: Non-govt puposes, but if there were gov comms over RNC mail, there should be an effort to preserve.
Leahy Is policy or should be?
Abu: Policy
Gonzo did no audit, only guidance about the emails.
L: 50 people?
A: I don’t know
L: Did you do an audit
A: no
L: Is anyone investigating this?
A: I don’t know
Leahy konws something about these emails. He has something–something good.
Did ABU just say he doesn’t know what an investigation is???
Interesting line:
Pat Leahy–ask him whether he’s aware of such an investigation wrt either the Plame or the Abramoff investigation.
emptywheel @ 10
Someone please get this to Leahy.
Unfuckingbelievable. What is this tools job again? He doesn’t know of an investigation nor has he started one. How can he possibly stay?
Have you made sure they didn’t misuse the computers?
Abu is saying it’s not illegal. He has no position as AG.
Monica at last!
Texas Betsy @ 17
Said he’s not aware of an investigation into the missing email scandle, or the fact that the republic party was using RNC accounts for governmental business.
L: Monica’s role?
A: I don’t know everything. She was senior counselor and WH liaison. Supported Sampson
If there’s an investigation into emails from the White House, where I was counsel, why should I be expected to know about it?
‘That would not be illegal?’ — um, Presidential Records Act? You can’t claim an ‘interest’ in presidential records and disclaim responsibility for preservation of them.
He isn’t aware an investigationis going on into the WH e-mails. He doesn’t know anything.
Oh Monica Goodling role.
He don’t know what whe did in this issue. sUpported Sampson.
Monica supported Sampson. Abu assumes she assisted with the review process. He doesn’t know what the woman does!
epu’d from downstairs
I said this before, I wish the committee would read here at the lake because I am absolutely certain of the following;
abu torture believes he can say these usa’s weren’t fired for “improper reasons” because he believes if a person “works at the pleasure of the president” that by definition means there are NO reasons that are improper
any reason at all will do
I am telling you I know this as a fact, he believes he can swear an oath and even if these attorneys were dismissed for the purpose of obstruction of justice that doesn’t constitute an “improper reason”
I’m telling you, this is what he is doing…sort of like;
“but I had my fingers crossed”
Goodlings role?
IDK everything she did - couselor, liaison, Sampson supporter in review process
C-Span online is a few seconds behind the televised version, so the liveblogging comments from some of us are more current than .Texas Betsy @ 17
Yup.
Now a question re: Goodling. Yes!
Tell us all you can about your role.
L: Have you told us all about the plan?
A: Members of this committee know more than me.
Abu: Committee has more information than I have about the purge! He actually said that!
Hammering him about inconsistent testimony.
Which is the accurate statement?
L: Of all your statements, which is truth?
Abu: Mistakes were made!!
Waht is the accurate story on the dismissals?
Only about 7 versions of the statements
Following @27, he also uses the phrase “I don’t recall” instead of “I can’t recall.” There’s a difference, and he (and his preparers) knows it.
Which of your public statements can we accept as your defining statement? In short, you’re lying.
Leahy asked what was Monica Goodling’s role in the firing of the attorneys.
i wish he would ask what was her role in the hiring of the career attorneys.
Oh, Leahy! First emails, now Monica Goodling.
I feel like we have been waiting for a long time for talks of emails, servers, records, etc. And then Monica Goodling. And now touching on his glaring omissions of certain WH folks in their role of the US Attorney firing. Pathetic AbuG attempt to be coy - again - with his you you more than I know.
Now, a deep Leahy breath.
Which lying sack of bull is your “true” story regarding this little USAs guffaw?
PLEASE ask if he would accept the responsibility by resigning?
Specter going to distraction. Smoke break time.
bold off?
Another question to phone in, firepups:
“Would it be plausible for Karl Rove to contact Kyle Sampson or someone else at the DOJ in order to get a US Attorney added to the list, without your knowing it?”
Follow-up: “But you’d have no way of knowing that wasn’t done, would you? You’ve already said you weren’t monitoring the process.”
Spector wants to talk about Virginia Tech and campus safety. OK, let’s change the subject again!!
VT is another issue… why ask him if he is going to resign?
Republican strategy becoming apparent: Distract w/ peripheral matters. Kyl: Offshore gambling. Now Specter with VT shootings.
Specter following Kyls tactic.
Has nothing to do wrt subject.
With Gonzalez defending his ‘competence’ by treating the US Attorneys scandal as a isolated mistake, we need to hear one of the Senators asking a more general and pointed question re: competence.
Something should be asked along the lines of whether mistakes were also made with respect to management of the Civil Rights division, Monica Goodling being allowed to remain on the payroll after taking the Fifth, the Georgia Thompson case, questions about whether career employees and interviewees were asked politically sensitive questions such as party resignation, possibly in violation of the Hatch Act, etc.,
In other words, we need to recontextualize the scandal and Gonzales’s testimony within a broader pattern of overall incompetence, politicization, and lack of transparency.
During Leahy’s questioning Gonzo’s arms crossed over to the point where he almost hugged himself.
I believe AG said “I don’t recall” more times during Leahy’s line of questioning than at any other time during this hearing.
Spector is doing a Kyl. Time for lunch.
jesus - the R’s have got nothing! This guy is burnt toast.
Isn’t that typical Specteramous? Strong early on then fades under pressure. Makes me sick and he does it every time.
Quick OT.
Pentagon essentially calls Bush a liar. They say the war is bought and paid for through June.
Sorry Commander Chimp.
-GSD
Why is it that Cho’s contacts with these female students via e-mail is referred to as “stalking”? Unless that is that these e-mails were abusive.
CAN YOU DEFINE “STALKING” PLEASE
Why is the republic party acting like Abu is going to survive this?
kdh22 @ 55
Kinda reminds me of the tatics of Kim Jong Il
Arlen — quit pontificating
Oh wow. Chow Sung High. Specter is such a poster boy for solid ethnic relations.
187 people died in Iraq yesterday, not that it matters. They were all brown people. This makes me want to puke.
The Rethugs have gotten word that Abu will resign at teh end of the day (per Coburn’s statement) and are doing everything they can to make the hearings as distracting as possible so that people tune out. The C-span servers have been overwhelmed several times today.
Seriously, Kyl… Internet gambling? Asking to set up a meeting next week? Come on.
Mistakes were made….massacres happen.
-GSD
Still, Spector’s tryin’ to make him answer.
He is just plain stupid!
AZ Matt @ 53
By not asking questions about the subject at hand, the Rs aren’t giving Abu a chance to defend himself. Rs know the game is up. Questions about internet gambling or VT are the same as telling Abu to resign, you’re done, we can’t help you.
How much longer do we have left to grill him?
Is it not just great we have gotten the VT killers e-mail already ,but roves are still not
Forth come howed athunk it?
Jeebus, Abu trying to change the subject!
Should Gonzalez be worried about keeping his job, or should he be worried about staying out of jail? Why do these people, these Gonzaleses, these Toensings, these Sampsons, why are they allowed to lie so blatantly to Congress? Can anybody answer that?
Leahy’s right to let them keep talking off-topic - shows their immense weakness.
Aimish? wow, I expected this crap from Oren but not Arlen or even Kyl. Obfucating. We’ll be hearing about porn soon.
What is Spector doing? Have they all ready thrown Gonzo under the bus? Spector rolled over rather quickly.
Spector’s tryin to look good at home when he visits on the weekend: I spoke with the AG and he told me he’d do what I told him to do.
WOW! Specter on the misuse of nat’l security letters.
Shorter rethug talking point: Gonzales = child idiot.
david baerwald @ 69
Because they can. This has been another addition of simple answers to simple questions.
wooo-hooo! AG’s “moving forward,” the key mantra to loyal bushies, top to bottom.
The R Senators are saving their own hides. They know Abu is toast. So they’re trying to look tough by holding him to account now. Too little too late, jerks!
WHY is this not on CSpan regular TV so that everyone can watch? Why only Cspan3?
LJ/Aquaria @ 41
Any theories on why he’s doing that? Spector talks like Abu still has a job.
Spector, on VATech: signals, signals, signals.
Puhleaze, we need better funding for preventative mental health care, Spector. Not exactly Abu “throw ‘em in Gitmo” Gonzo’s specialty.
tbsa @
55
Won’t survive. Coburn gave him the word.
The rest is for the next AG as to what payback the Repube Sens expect taken care of.
Arlen: NSLs misused. What have you done to see that those problems were fixed?
Abu: Asked subordinates to work with FBI to see what happened
Arlen: We know what happened? What did you do?
Abu: Field audits.
Arlen: NO what did YOU do?
Sounds like they are setting Gonzo up as a shit magnet…..
All the ineptitude and screw-ups for the past few years will now be heaped upon Gonzo’s sagging shoulders.
This guy will be lucky to be a security guard after they are done with him.
-GSD
#76, He doesn’t look good to me!!! And I,m in Erie
Texas Betsy @ 78
It will be replayed on regular CSpan later.
Texas Betsy @ 77 - Because stealing elections is not news according to the “liberal” msm.
Senate Republicans are trying to take back their party from the Bush Junta.
Bush is toast.
Why do these people, these Gonzaleses, these Toensings, these Sampsons, why are they allowed to lie so blatantly to Congress? Can anybody answer that?
Because they can. It’s all high comedy as someone earlier said!
mui @ 79
They could also be doing this to let Abu have a chance to show what he could do, make himself look better. That’s the only thing that makes sense.
jayt @ 69
Yes, trust Schumer, Leahy, Whitehouse, et.al. to keep pounding (figuratively) Abu. No subject change is possible today.
Did the Bushies see this disaster coming today?
Texas Betsy @ 79
c-span has to show house floor (when in session), and c-span2 has to show the senate floor (when in session).
i would expect that this hearing will be show again on c-span later today.
Hell - if we’re gonna go off topic - somebody ask him about torture and renditions!
DiFi up.
The list…
Woodhall Hollow @ 89
Agree wholeheartedly!
Specter - asking about what is done to show probable cause to FISA court - WRT comm coming from outside US
freerepublic, from daily kos
Alberto Gonzales has been dreadful though. Embarassing is more like it.
This is not a jibe at anything other than his speaking and management skills. He just is coming across as incompetent. Does anybody think Ted Olsen would be this bad even without the month of prep time that Gonzo has had? He is embarassing himself and the president, and needs to resign. He is about to take another whacking now.
If he was an articulate conservative, he would survive this easily. He is neither of those things. He has embarassed me.
big O-U-C-H ! ! !
Feinstein up.
The Republican tactic is now to change the subject: internet gambling, Virginia Tech, drapes in the AG’s office?
The Committee waited how long for this interview? What parallel investigations are going on as we speak, with Bogden, Paulose, Lam, Iglesias? Is there no outrage about the missing list of appointees the administration assured us it would send to fill the nineteen USA slots that have not been confirmed (twenty percent)?
What does that tell us about this administration’s respect for the American people?
MelodyMaker @ 71
Well Abu just talked about Obscenity being one of three DoJ top priorities, I think. I think I can now sleep at night./snark
I’ve tried to get on Gabbly, but am having no luck, get the little window and nothing happens. If anyone has a suggestion, thanks.
Is this naptime for Abu? Specter is just reading off a laundry list here, is there a relationship between this and the focus of the hearing??
Texas Betsy @ 78
I think C-Span 1 & 2 are contractually obligated to cover the House and Senate chambers, and can only briefly switch to committee hearings.
At this point, Gonzo has had plenty of opportunity to talk about what he did not participate in. He apparently supervised no one, provided no meaninful input, had no real idea what were the skills and talents (such as they were) or his underlings. His whole defense is that “mistakes were made”, all the while ducking any personal responsibility for those mistakes. Now the stage is set for the key question: “If you were responsible for nothing and provided no meaningful oversight for the DOJ, how can you presume to take any credit for any of the positive outcomes on your watch at DoJ? And why do you think you deserve to collect a paycheck? For running around the country being a cheerleader?”
Over under on how many more days Abu has in office? 50% chance he’s gone within the week. (Hard to estimate how loyal Bush will be - but when the crap really hit the fan, Rumsfeld got ditched pretty promptly)
DiFi up: I don’t understand how the list was compiled. Kyle said he didn’t put people on the list. He was the aggregator. Battle said that he had no input. Mercer said I didn’y understand there was a list.
Anybody feel like Abu is being drilled on other subjects just to try and illustrate some sort of general incompetence ? This way they can downplay whatever dirt the dems uncover on emails, Rove, etc. If Gonzales is incompetent at everything then it’s part of a larger problem rather than a specific controversy.
DiFI: Nobody wanting to take responsibility for picking who to purge. She’s going to ask who made the call.
zennurse @ 100
Firefox worked for me, Safari, not so much.
MelodyMaker @ 71
The “Aimish” also forgave the family of the madman almost immediately. Inviting them to the memorials. Have never seen such a demonstration of forgiveness.
I wish I were “Aimish”
Daniel @ 105
Tomorrow!
My word!
He admits to recalling something.
Feinstein: I don’t understand how list was compiled - 10% of USA staff. Sampson testified that he didn’t put people on list. Sampson was aggregator. Battle said: I had no input. NO one asked for my input. Mercer said: I didn’t understand there was a list. But when I had a concern I told people.
But you said this morning that you didn’t draw up list.
G: I haven’t read transcript of Battle. I recall reasons for five USA dismissal, but not reasons for 2.
DiFi had the doc ready to give him, so he couldn’t delay by saying he couldn’t see/recall it.
DiFi: Did you get the plan at the meeting?
Abu: I don’t remember the meeting
Helen @ 106
Good on ya DiFi!
mui @ 97
I said that because Hatch will be up again. He’s the porn senator, IIRC.
DiFi: don’t just let the question hang there or get distracted — who had the authority to put people on Kyle’s Little List?
GSD @ 82
Oh, I thought it was just Arlen handing out the homework. YOu’re on target, GSD, poor little Abu.
Gonzo: “I don’t recall remembering the reasons.” This guy is the most incompetent liar I’ve ever seen.
Why are they asking him about meetings NEXT WEEK? Surely, he will be back in Texas by then…. Oh yes, this is Washington and he’s a Bushie…
We don’t know who selected the people to put on the list. Who did it? Who?
Who selected the individuals who were on that list?
Texas Betsy @ 78
C-SPAN has strict policy of gavel-to-gavel coverage of House on C-SPAN, Senate on C-SPAN2.
DiFi: Who selected people on list?
Abu: Sampson spoke to DOJ pepole, as I understand.
DiFi: He claimed to be the aggregator.
Abu: blub, blub, blub…
DiFI: Who selected the people on the list?
Abu: I understood that Sampson would speak to senior leadership and come to me with a recommendation
DiFI: Kyle said no - he was the aggregator.
Abu: Sampson more than that.
Listen people, mistakes were made! How many times do I have to tell you that…No one made them, they were self made mistakes!
-Alberto Toastzales
Feinstein ” who came up with the list”
Will Durbin come up again? Drop another bomb?
yeah, —