
As a reminder, the more comments there are in the thread, the faster I have to start a new one and that interrupts the flow of the liveblogging. Please think before you hit the comment button whether or not your one-liner is necessary. The servers are humming along okay this morning, and I would love to keep it that way. Thanks. -- CHS
___________________________
SEN. SCHUMER QUESTIONS: Safe to say that Schumer is a bit skeptical. Go back to the discussion with Feinstein regarding Lam. You said she was acutely aware -- Sampson said that he does not think that anyone gave her notice of problems with her or the DoJ. Sampson says no notice, and you told Feinstein that she was acutely aware. AG says he won't characterize Sampson's testimony. In looking at the documents, he believes that there was communication with Lam -- and that there was a lot of discussion with members of Congress. Schumer says that Lam was not aware of the DoJs view on her immigration prosecution record. This is what we have been through all morning -- the people that we have interviewed are saying conflicting information from your testimony. AG says he recalls sitting in a meeting with Lam and saying those numbers needed to change, and that this information needed to be communicated. AG didn't speak to her directly -- but thinks that someone should have. Doesn't testify that she was told -- or that he has any knowledge that she was told -- by anyone in particular about any problem in particular. AG says that he didn't say that Lam was told that if her numbers didn't change, she'd need to resign. If you look at the letters and information, then there is no question that she knew there was a problem. Schumer says "Is it a general policy of the DoJ that when you have a problem with a USA, that you let Congress tell them about it?" AG says that they should have done a better job. Schumer says that this is beyond a question of doing a better job, you have had a month to prepare and we'd like answers.
Gets back into the Pryor issue -- AG lied to me and to the Senate about Cummings. Schumer says he spoke to Pryor and that he stands by those words. Goes on to the Patriot Act evasion of Congressional oversight plan. Goes through the discussion of running out the clock on Senator Pryor -- using a number of tactics to delay so that Griffen could stay in until the end of the President's term. Sampson says he was in the room when AG spoke with Pryor and said that he wanted to take Griffen through confirmation process. Did Sampson put out this memo completely on his own that contradicts what you just said was your policy -- or was he articulating what you really thought was a good idea -- because either way, this doesn't look good. AG says that Sampson testified that Ag didn't like the plan. Schumer says who is running the department if Sampson is putting out an e-mail about a plan that you didn't like -- and your Cheif of Staff puts out a detailed, step-by-step process, of how to implement this plan? AG is peeved that his running of the department is being questioned. Sampson said it was a bad idea in Feb. or March, but in December he's going full bore ahead with the plan. Schumer affirms that Sampson's testimony was that in December the AG did not reject the plan. It raises substantial questions that this was done within 4 days of the AG talkng with Pryor.
LEAHY FOLLOW-UP: When you talk about sending up nominations for vacancies, you sent up 2 nominations for 21 vacancies -- that's one out of ten. AG takes issue with Schumer characterization.
SEN. GRAHAM QUESTIONS: Graham sounds like he has a cold today. Plan you were talking about with Schumer was what? AG says as he understood it, Sampson should have doen a review of all USAs and make determinations thereon. How do you reconcile the conversations with Sen. Pryor and the Sampson e-mail/memo? AG says talked in good faith to Pryor. Reason he was put into the slot was because the WH wanted Griffen in it? No problems with Cummings, just wanted Griffen? Yes, that's a fair characterization. Goes through the question on the Patriot Act provision question -- talking about the Sampson testimony. AG says that he knows that he did not like the Patriot Act provision/plan to put USAs in without Senate approval. Graham says "and the White House had a different view?" Where did this idea come from? AG says he can't say where it came from, but he didn't support it. (CHS: Again, howdy Karl. Maybe Graham should ask Hatch about that. Ahem.) Graham says that Pryor is a reasonable man, and that Gonzales needs to straighten this out. Graham has problems in how convoluted this whole thing has been, and how badly this has been handled by the AG.
Is it fair to say that you based yoru decisions trusting in the judgment of your senior staff? Yes. Graham says it bothers him that you didn't contact anyof the people who were fired to find out their side of the story. Was this really performance based or did these people just run afoul of personalities of the people in the office and that you just came up with a rationale to fire them? AG starts to go into the documentation and Graham cuts him off saying that they are mostly just thin justifications and that these folks ran afoul of personality conflicts with folks at the DoJ and the White House and you just came up with a reason to fire them. What kind of damage needs to be repaired on your part? AG says he needs to continue to have dialogue with Congress on this. AG says he didn't say no to the document requests or to his staffers testifying or try to slow this down -- wants to get to the truth.
SEN. DURBIN QUESTIONS: When you were WH counsel, did you sit in on meetings on judicial and USA selections with Rove? Rove would infrequently but occasionally be present. Durbin asks about the Fitzgerald appointment in Chicago. It's been reported that Rove had problems with Fitzgerald being appointed because of potential political considerations in Illinois. AG not aware of this. Going into the eval of Fitzgerald's performance done early in Gonzales' tenure -- and Fitz was given a recommendation that he had "no distinguished himself, either positively or negatively" by Sampson. AG says that he doesn't recall ever seeing these evaluations. AG says he had recused himself from evaluating Fitz due to conflict of interest, but thinks personally that Fitzgerald is an outstanding prosecutor. Doesn't recall Sampson speaking to him abot removing Fitzgerald -- doesn't know anything about any Sampson recommendation to Miers. Durbin gets into how not believeable that is to him that Gonzales would not recall a conversation about this, if he and Sampson had that conversation, given the high profile of Fitz. Did you ever have a conversation after the appointment of Fitzgerald to be special prosecutor in the investigation of the Valerie Plame matter with either the President or Karl Rove about the removal of Fitzgerald? [long pause] Sir, I believe the answer to that is no. Did you ever have a conversation with Rove about the removal of Iglesias? I recall a discussion with Mr. Rove about voter fraud cases, including in New Mexico, where Iglesias was USA. Rove had complaints about voter fraud prosecutions or lack of prosecutions, and basically about voter fraud cases including in New Mexico. I believe that I communicated this information to Mr. Sampson, but I don't recall what happened after that. It was my decision to fire Iglesias. Sen. Dominici and Rep., Wilson ought to have their opportunity to present their side -- but a member of Congress contacting a USA is a very, very serious issue, but we didn't know about these calls. Iglesias intentionally violated a policy meant to protect him -- and as I weigh these facts, I think Iglesias should not be a USA. Doesn't recall any conversations with Rove about Lam. Durbin now asking about article by Patrick Collins as an AUSA -- belives that Gonzales' continued service causes a problem in prosecution of public corruption cases. "USAs must never serve only to please the President." AG says he agrees with that. Durbin brings up Sampson's "loyal Bushies" comments, among others. AG says that this is not about what is best for Alberto Gonzales, it is about what is best for the DoJ. I'm going ot work as hard as I can to re-establish trust with this committee and the public.
There is then a great conversation about the responsibility for perception problems. I hope there is a clip of this up somewhere soon. Very well done.
Break until 2:00 2:30 pm ET. (Note the time change to 2:30 pm ET.)
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So no comments, people!
great job FDL. good on ya…..
So now, no live-blogging?
I appreciate the live blogging (I’m at work, don’t tell anyone!).
Abu may have dug his own grave here, by saying that Sampson and the other underlings know more than him. Meaning that whenever he contradicts them, he looks somewhere between clueless and a brazen liar.
Slowlllllly twisting in the wind.
-GSD
Gonzaies Perjury Count=60
dakine01 @ 261
Hamburger @ 248
hey! my c-span3 is cutting out - freezing! help!
It would take you off the picture for a bit but if you unplug your cable box and plug it back in, when the clock returns, you should get pictures back OK (assusming you have cable box). It takes a few minutes.
http://www.pacifica.org/
Gonzo: “I can’t speak of where the idea came from but I supported the idea.”
I hate it when that happens!!!
Gonzo: I think USA should be nom by pres and confirmed by pres.
Graham - so this idea came from WH? Where did this idea come from
Huck hanging his head as he watches Abu hang himself higher with each statement.
Any scandal I missed since the 10 minute break?
Grahm: Go make nice with Prior.
Abu: Of course.
gonzo is cracking. How many times has he said “I did not like the plan”.
Let the light in Alberto..
Christy, sometimes there’s a very quotable line and several of us post a comment at once. We’re not being redundant on purpose.
“I can’t speak to where that idea came from”…re: Patriot Act. Well, of course he can’t speak to it. He knows where the idea came from. But, that’s one of the bottom lines here, isn’t it? Rove? Bush?
Be being so testy and defensive with even Graham, he seems getting close to Something, I think. Maybe later today.
Grahm - you had no ownership of the process: was your final decision made because of trust of your staff; not your own knowledge?
Abu: Yup
pointecoupeedemocrat @ 12
Yep. KKKarl gave the go ahead to throw Abu under the bus. But other than that, nothing.
prissy trying to give abu some wiggle room
Trust but verify?
They fire these people, and trash em’ when questions come-up.
Now, he’s trashin’ his staff.
“Consensus recommendation” — WHO contributed to this consensus? Ask him, and DON’T accept “senior people” as an answer!
thanks kathleen -
I re-clicked on c-span 3 realplayer and it caught up with itself. whew!
now all is working.
He is so toast. Graham is throwing him under the bus now.
Who is Coughy McEmphesema in the background who is ruining the Gonzo Show?
-GSD
Abu: In hindsight we had poor communication.
Grahm: Was it personality conflicts?
Abu: Look at docs - they support….
Grahm: NO the talking point is that this was personality driven
Ole 5 rugs for $5: Most of this is a stretch
There is a conspiracy but it’s hidden and
obstructed
Huck saying that there were personality conflicts so they made up reasons to fire them.
I don’t think so.
Does anyone notice how the trope of communication surfaces in every controversy: 9.11; Katrina; USAttorneys scandal; Iraq intelligence. Is this the new excuse in our age of information technologies?
dakine01 @ 23
He’s a weasel and will walk it back, as usual
Performance base or run afoul of personalities.
You made up reasons to fire them.
These were not the right people at the right time.
lol - prissy gave him a lil shot just then
I don’t kick my dog anymore, and I stopped beating my wife.
Graham, trying to get the DOJ off the hook, and Gonzo is so stuck on trying to avoid any blame for himself that he’s arguing!
I am surprised at Graham’s criticism, slight as it is. (Ugh, waxing the Repub line) Um…my CSPAN3 just cut out.
What did Graham last say? That he is not the right person for AG at this time?
Grahm: these were not the right people atthe right time. If I apply this standard to you..
Abu: I continue to be effective. I;ve done way cool things as AG. Mistakes were made!! I have nothing to hide.
“under the bus”
Hmm– no I think what we are witnessing is the fragmentation of the gooper party- they are no longer a monolith. It’s every gooper for themselves. Lots of goopers have ALWAYS hated Gonzo- but wouldn’t say so cause of the pres- now they feel free to have their way with him- cause the pres is a greasespot.
RevDeb @ 29
Good effort on their part, doncha think? Won’t pass the smell test tho.
Durbin up.
dakine01 @ 24
Are Rove’s “ears” smoking?
Graham is trying to have him resign?
AG: “I want to continue to have a dialogue with Congress” = Congress asks me questions, and I claim I don’t remember anything.
Graham: You have a credibility problem with members of Congress.
Graham’s giving the right-whinge talking points for the next couple of days.
- Poor communication
- Personality conflicts between the fired USAs and DoJ management
- Nothing explicitly stating that these attorneys were fired for political reasons
ahhh now back to a dem holding his feet to the fire - durbin’s on him now
Yes Fitzy question…
Now on to ROVE thank god
Durbin;
Did you ever sit in on meetings with the WH & and; KARL ROVE regarding appointments.
Getting To FITZ
In his testimony regarding the U.S. attorneys scandal before the Senate Judiciary Committee this morning, Attorney General Alberto Gonzales once again offered his Sgt. Schultz defense. Like the bumbling German guard in Hogan’s Heroes, Gonzales essentially claimed “I know nothing, nothing!” Sadly, his own recent statements show that while Gonzales may be similarly stupid, he is not ignorant.
The Attorney General’s recent op-eds show his dilemma. While claiming to have played no role in the evaluation of the fired attorneys, Gonzales claimed they lost his confidence nonetheless…
For the details, see:
“Gonzales’ Sgt. Schultz Defense.”
For the latest news, document dumps, email archives, hearing transcripts and other essential materials in the firings of U.S. attorneys, see:
“The U.S. Attorney Scandal Documents.”
Durbin,: as WH council did you ever sit in on meetings with Rove and AG concerning USA/s
Did you recall meeting concerning Fitzgerald
But he does not recall, who’d thunk it
Another way
http://www.pacifica.org/
Durbin up
Discussion with Rove and other WH people concerning USA
Doesn’t recall Rove being involved with Fitz.
“- Poor communication
- Personality conflicts between the fired USAs and DoJ management”
But that contradicts earlier testimony, and should constitute perjury.
Amnesia again
Dem’s have decided to get Durbin’s Fitz questions in before Gonzo can get away to lunch.
Durbin: reported that Rove had misgivings @ Fitz. You took over as AG in 2005 - you knew about Fitz , high profile att chosen as spec pros to investigage Plame. Shortly after your arrival there was eval of Fitz.
He doesn’t remember Fitz??? Or the conversations about him?????
Bullshit.
need to eat but i’m riveted to hearing - somebody hold my spot til i get back lol
Fitz!
Durbin: Fitz is cool. Was investigating Plame leak - shortly after you arrived in 2005 there was an evaluation made of Fitz right? Was not distinguished
Abu: Huh? Oh wait now I know. I don’t recall But didn’t see it at the time
@ 55
Good idea. He may not be back after lunch :)
Here it is
FITZ WAS ON THE LIST
Sampson recommended Fitz be removed DURING the investigation
D: you’re aware that Fitz was given recomm. that said “hasn’t distinguished self”
G: not aware.
D: so these evals by Sampson not shown to you?
Do you think this was a fair eval?
G: I recuse myself. Even if I hadn’t, I’d have questions about USA involved in this kind of case. I think Fitz is outstanding pros.
Abu: Fitz is outstanding.
Durbin: Are you aware that Kyle said he should be removed?
Abu: After the fact from Kyle’s testimony
kathleen @ 253
EPU’d from last thread to say THANKS kathleen
“It did happen, it didn’t happen or you do not recall”
Shorter Durbin: Can’t you come up with a more plausible lie than that?
D: did he (samp?) speak to you about removing fitz in middle of invest?
G: don’t remember
D: this is high profile case. YOur chief of staff recommends he be removed and you don’t remember?
G: I don’t think that conv. happened.
Durbin: Fitz is the mostest bestest. And the highest profile. Kyle made a recommendation to remove Fitz and you don’t remember?
Abu: I don’t think Klye raised it with me
“I don’t think that coversation [with Rove about Fitz] happened…”
Now the guy is in the shit. He should have stuck to “I can’t recall.”
You would think that the only special pros. that was involved in the Plame affair would be someone that Abu would remember discussing.
Even with thousands of conversations.
I have thousands of conversations every year. I remember the most prescient quite well.
Whoa, Durbin. “I believe the answer to that is no.”
Not “no”.
Gah, the parsing of “recommendation”
Durbin - my senator! - best yet - straight, good questions.
CLARITY Yeah, Durbin. However, they should stop with the “do you remember” questions and just pose yes/no Qs.
Finally, “did you ever have a conversation with Karl Rove about removing Iglesias…”
This just gets better and better.
Did he ever talk to Rove about Fitz?
no??? NO???
lying whiny weasel.
D: did you ever have conv. with pres or rove about removal of Fitz.
G: I believe the ans. is no.
D: Did you ever have conv. with Rove about Iglesias?
G: there was a discussion with Rove about votor fraud including NM.
he doesn’t recall it but he is sure it wasn’t a recommendation. HA!
Durbin: Talk with Rove about Inglesis?
Abu: Spoke to Rove about voter fraud in NM.
Come on, AG! You’re being thrown to the wolves here - name some names!! You think they’re going to give two shits about you a week from now?
Durbin: any conclusion to that conv. (w Rove) about inglesias? Were you party to that decision for his removal?
Long pause before his answer on Fitzy/Rove/Bush
Will no one rid me of these priests, er USAs?
Are these “alleged” conversations with Rove or the Vp about Fitz a “blue dress” with stains?
Abu: Almost said Ingelsis lied in testimony - Says we need Dominici and Wilson’s side.
Gonzo: if a member of congress contacts a USA to put pressure on case, that is very serious matter.
Voter Fraud, it gets my hackles up every time I hear these people say that phrase. Coming from the people that stole two presidential elections, it really sticks in the throat. These people have brass balls.
The Fool @ 82
Abu: Inglesis did not report conversations.
Abu: “This is a matter being investigated by Congress [so I can’t comment].”
Yeah, dipshit we’re investigating!!!!
Ingeles didn’t report the attempt to intimidate him, so he’s the problem.
Is Gonzo trying to shift the blame to Domenici?!! Oh yeah, THAT’S smart.
Durbin: conv. with Rove re: Lam?
G: don’t recall
Durbin: Gonna give you the article 4/17 in Chicago Trib - The Patrick Collins article!!!
It is Igelsis’s fault cuz he didn’t come to us!
Cut him down. Cut him down. This corpse has been twisting in the wind so long, he smells up wind as well as down.
RevDeb @ 86
I guess we’ve gotta watch the line between “preachin’” and “meddlin’”, RevDeb!
Durbin: Collins says you suck.
Abu had better hope against hope that Congress doesn’t get it’s hands on the e-mail from Rove that says he spoke with Gonzalez about any of these people.
He’s already on the spit and gone, but that could lead to perjury.
I don’t recall won’t work. and he lied about rove.
Throw some lime on this cadaver. He’s stinking up the joint.
-GSD
Durbin - collins says your presence creates problems for USAs - what we have heard about “loyal bushies” involvemnt of Rove - makes it tough for you to stay on
Doesn’t Rove’s ‘voter-fraud’ phone cover sound familiar? Like calling Cooper on ‘welfare’?
Your out Gonzo throw us Rove
Go get ‘em, Durbin….
Go Dick Go! Ask for his resignation!
Any word from the MSM? If this was Fredo’s make-or-break appearance, I’m not seeing any “making” being accomplished. He can’t even deny that he and Rove were talking about fucking with a special prosecutor during an investigation.
Audience clapping, briefly, Durbin’s questions. Someone shouting from the audience.
Abu: You are attacking the career people.
So which goopers are gonna sit him down and tell him the jig is up?
And how fast can they do that?
Durbin: your conduct has made it more difficult for USAs to do their job
G: don’t criticize the dept. criticize me.
D: this hearing is about you. YOur reputation. Not about the men and women working in your dept.
durbin: we’re attacking you, not the professionals in your dept!
going on break to lunch un-till 2
It’s about time someone said something about this canard that to criticize his performance as AG that is somehow attacking career professionals.
Durbin just handed him his ass on that one!!
“that’s like saying I’m attacking the soldiers”
LUNCHTIME till 2 Screaming in the hearing room.
This IS about Alberto Gonzales. And what he has allowed to happen on his watch.
People in the gallery are shouting “Gonzales, you’re a liar!”
Just a few protesteers! Liar!
Oy, Alberto!
He says to Durbin, “Be very careful about talking about the Department.”
Threaten Durbin? In a televised Senate hearing?
Civil commitment is now in order!
Sounds like the Manson Family made it into the hearing room.
-GSD
Fire the liar!!!!
grape_crush @ 114
Really? Damn.
Crowd GOES NUT LIAR LIAR
Carolyn and All:
Thank you, Thank you, Thank you! Going to lunch too. I did nothing this a.m. Crap!
Wow!!! Liar! Liar! Liar!
Wish I were there to yell, too.
What are they yelling??
VERY INTERESTING VTU link:
Impeach - sweet!!
Global Exchange/codepink’s Medea Benjamans voice is so distinct. go Medea
NUTS sorry
Whoah. People yelling and screaming at Gonzo from gallery. Lunch break till two. YElling: “LIAR” “Impeach” “Fire Gonzolez”
Ooh.
Abu to Durbin: Be careful about criticizing the dept. you’re attackin (here it is again) career prosecutors.
Durbin: That’s like saying criticizing the preznit is like critcizing soldiers.
Applause from audience
Who’s protesting? I think Schumer says somthing about having a lot of people to kick out.
GSD @ 117
That, or the fired USAs
I hope he has his letter of resignation already written.
Even Hatch can’t get him out of this one.
rwcole @ 38
Yep.
A Thank You very much for the hearing.
Code Pink in the audience.
If he has any sense he would resign now and not come back after lunch.
Durbin asked My question.
carolyn urban @ 128