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Looks like Pelosi did it:
Speaker Nancy Pelosi and her allies in the House now appear to have the Democratic votes necessary to pass the measure that requires American combat troops to be out of Iraq by Fall 2008 at the latest. Three House liberal leaders have just announced that they are "letting go" of their nominal underlings in the Progressive and Out of Iraq caucuses, meaning that they will not pressure them to vote "nay" on the grounds that the bill continues funding the war -- notwithstanding the withdrawal date.
Also, liberal Rep. Jim McDermott (D-WA) has also announced that he will go along with Pelosi and vote "yea." That might be just enough to put Pelosi over the top with the 218 votes she needs for passage. For weeks, she has struggled to round up votes from progressives on the left and "Blue Dogs" on the right who don't like the idea of a timeline. This is easily the biggest test to date of her leadership.
While it's hard to justify giving Bush another penny for his illegal and immoral war, I'm surprised at the glee I feel knowing that Nancy Pelosi got the votes to finally beat George Bush on an Iraq vote at a time when the abuse of power makes the most paranoid amongst us look rational.
Let's hope this is a first step toward restoring some kind of sanity.
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J U S T I C E !!!
Madame Speaker!!!! Er . . .Pres. . .
Nancy!!!
Henry!!!
And JANE!!!!
Enjoy your basketball tonight!
Jane! Elizabeth! Madame Speaker!
thank goodness. I was calling our liberal congress women all last night, I’m glad they shifted their resolve from “Not good enough” to “It’s a start”.
Per Tony Snow, the House members don’t have the right to vote on this.
I think this whole “Antiwar Party” thing will make for some excellent branding in 2008.
It’s gonna suck to be one of the Republicans who voted to keep us in Iraq.
18 months of funding for this war/occupation is so disheartening and depressing - it far overshadows any partisan joy i can find in seeing bush’s republicans beaten.
Balrog @ 6
Is warmaking covered by executive privilege?
My next bumper sticker: Pelosi ‘07
Just a few tasks first……
I am proud to announce as a happily married man for over 30 years in a heterosexual relationship that I am a “Nancy Boy”!!!!
You go girl!!!!!!!
selise @ 8
I think shrink’s “It’s a start” comment is the key. At the very least, establish that the Democrats are the “get us the fuck out of Iraq already” party, and then work on moving up the date.
Eli @ 7
and how will it be for the dems who just voted to provide the necessary funding to continue the war for another 18 months?
Eli @ 9
The Admin will be offering a fair alternative to this bill.
any day Pelosi wins is a very good day.
flatford39 @ 11
I’m a Nancy Goy. Well, in Utah, anyway…
selise @
8
I understand.
flatford39 @
11
LOL!!! You and John Edwards.
Eli @ 12
oh eli - i so hope you are right and i am completely wrong. but right now, i am crying with despair.
Carolyn in Baltimore @ 10
Oh, I love it. Let me know when it’s available & I’ll drive up & pick one up!
selise @ 13
It sucks, and I would much prefer a more accelerated timeline, but they’ll be fine, and this was pretty clearly the absolute limit of what they could get passed.
gotta start somewhere. the “perfect” being the enemy of the ‘good” and all that. good for Nancy.
Balrog @ 14
It has been for 6 years and Iran’s still on the table.
Sorry,
I don’t feel good about this. It’s a bad bill and is being touted as “if it fails the next one will be worse.” I’m in the camp of starting with a higher standard. This does not feel good. period.
Jane Hamsher @ 17
thank you for that, jane. this bill has been a horrible wedge among people who want the war to end.
Jane,
truly hope you are holding up well and livin’ nutmeg fabulous
am loving your focus on Alice Fisher - I happened to catch that particular bug from you :) just imagine, Madame Prosecutor and Democracy 21 at the same hearing . . .
Pelosi is an awful smart cookie and I trust that she is doing her very best - it is a start.
selise @
8
me too.
I want impeachment on the table and war with Iran off the table and the troops and mercenaries home now and all occupations to end.
and the chimp still threatens a veto on this legislation so that he can continue his endless war.
Carolyn in Baltimore @ 10
Finally, the appropriate replacement for the “Sorry World, We Tried” sign on my front lawn.
When folks ask about it, I tell ‘em I’m waiting for an accurate count of the 2004 ballots.
I’m trusting this is one small step for the “Speaking to” the House. Lovin’ that woman’s style.
selise –
Cry your heart out here with us, and when you can, take all that fire in your heart and come out swinging once more.
It’s going to be a very long marathon, not a quick sprint. There will be days of anguish and days of pride alternating, for a very long time.
We all need you in the fight.
OldCoastie @ 27
It’s certainly a refreshing change from all the just plain awful cookies we’ve had running our government.
nice that the various factions of progressives are working together Jane but I do have a question;
can’t they give a fraction of what’s asked for in lieu of another vote?
I think that would not only satisfy both sides of the democratic divide but it would give EVERYONE more influence;
here’s what I would like to see happen and this would become veto proof;
a bill needs to be passed that gives money for carious events and circumstances in Iraq, it does not give the president any discretion;
this amount for feeding, this amount for equipment, this amount for transportation
this cannot be vetoed by the president without entirely defunding the war and forcing his own hand to bring our children home
I understand it’s important to show solidarity in this bill but we give away far too much and letting him pull the strings
I would also like to circulate the following talking points among democrats.
whenever someone tries to bring up “they serve at the pleasure of the president”, the proper response is as so’
“the president serves at the pleasure of the people, he serves at the pleasure of our constitution”
we then need to go even further after those self evident truths;
“the people who employ this president elected congress to provide over site, to not only “micromanage” but to make sure the policies that brought us to this state are reversed..unlike those elected officials that ignore their obligation to this country, her constitution and the people that elect us, this congress WILL fulfill it’s oath”
really, if I say so myself, I LOVE;
“the president serves at the pleasure of the people and at the pleasure of our constitution”
that will shut their mouths RIGHT up whenever they try to bring up “they serve at the pleasure of the president
Mauimom @ 20
Google it - they’re out there!
How could a democrat dare not voting with Pelosi on getting out? They need to be disappeared. Can they possibly be representing their districts?
Eli @ 32
who enabled those cookies, anyway?
Angie @ 28:
Let the Chimp live with the consequences of his veto.
perris @ 33
I think their response is going to be that the “accountability moment” was in 2004, and the people’s pleasure did not remove Dubya. Not saying it’s a valid argument (Election Day sketchiness, 2006 election results), but it’s certainly the one they’ll use.
Obviously, impeachment should only be reserved for the most serious of crimes against the state, like lying about blow jobs.
RevDeb @ 24
i think i might have been able to work myself up to, if not supporting, at least being neutral if only the funding had been for only 3 or 4 months (with everthing else the same).
i don’t understand why there is funding for 18 months…. until just before the 2008 elections - it looks (even to me) like playing politics with people’s lives. and if it looks like that to me - how will it looks to people who don’t consider themselves democrats?
Cantner sayin typical stoopid shit on tweety
the american people want us out of Irag you idiot
To prez pelosi: Bout dam time
Mauimom @ 37
If only he was the only one who had to.
But at least the GOP will pay dearly in 2008. That’s pretty much the only consolation.
Eli @
9
Are war crimes covered by executive privilege?
Appreciate the feedback from everyone in the previous thread wrt B. Haley………..I’m on dial-up and the way the Ladies of the Lake have been cranking ‘em out these days, it’s next to impossible to keep up w/the comments, much less drag on and off to check teh google. Talk about *real* epu land ;-)
George, Rove and Cheney. How they must be fretting over being beaten by that little woman Pelosi. Well pseudo macho boys, watcha gonna do? Especially you Prez, you long, tall, swaggering, phony cowboy, you.
18 months. 18 months of a whole lot of killing, a whole lot of money for the Darth project.
Anyone have a link to the text of this bill?
When and how does the money cut off?
When do we start to pull out?
Does it cut funding of private militias or bases?
I know Nancy is trying and goddess bless her for it…but its still just all wrong.
i suggest this one tiny thought:
Ask mothers and fathers, sisters and brothers, Iraqis/Afghans what they want.
They can’t wait another 18 months, much less a week.
It’s heinous.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: the CBC may just save our country.
selise @
19
I suggest that you dry your eyes and get to work to find, fund and elect more folks like Rep. Barbara Lee and the other members of the Progressive Caucus ’cause….
Bush, Cheney and the rest of the insane scum trying to destroy this country don’t care about tears.
They worked for 40 years to get to this point.
And now we have the golden opportunity to drive them into the sea.
If we don’t quit.
They vast majority of Americans have come to see that these fascists are a bigger danger to them than Al Queda ever thought of being.
The citizenry is ready to take another direction after two failed foreign wars and forty years of ReThug fools allowing their coporate puppetmasters free reign to:
Loot the Treasury…
Destroy the economy…
Ruin our educational system…
I’m not gonna spend one second whining about this.
It’s on to the next fight.
Impeachment.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 44
I’d bet it bothers them a LOT… and will compel them to stick their lower lips out further on the USA situation.
And the Palestinians.
sorry, Nancy, but I think 18 months totally sucks. you could have gone to the end of FY 07, giving the Congress the chance to come up with a better endgame. I am not happy with this! Going to watch some basketball. Please fix this.
Mrs. K8 @ 31 -
thanks for the kind words… i’m not about to give up now… i just had more hope, a lot more hope, for the dems (especially the blue america candidates) who were supposed to be anti-this-war.
Waiting for a call back from someone who we hope can help with the current round of middle school/IEP stuff. No time or brainpower to try to sum these things up, but if anyone is interested, there are a number of posts (with links) at Buckeye State Blog about Phillip de Vellis:
A Name From The Past
Calling BS on De Vellis - It Wasn’t Him
Politico Weighs in on DeVellis
Continuing our Conversation: De Vellis’ Deception & BSD
Eli @ 38
we know what they’ll try to use in response Eli, and of course we’ll be ready with exactly what you wrote;
“that’s why there are ongoing elections and that’s why there is a vote two years after a president is elected, so that the president’s boss, the people can do what it takes to bring his decisions into account”
we’re on the same page, what I’m really saying is whenever they come up with their ridiculous talking points we can usually put an end to it and my “the president serves at the pleasure of the constitution” does the trick very nicely with the current script the marionettes are repeating from their puppeteers
Well, my thoughts are:
1. Congrats to our Speaker. Some compromises needed to be made to get “something” meaningful to pass.
2. IF this bill becomes law, realize that withdrawal by 09/08 actually, in a pragmatic sense, will require a phased reduction over the many months prior to 09/08. Perhaps this might be a bit of consolation to those who seek immediate withdrawal.
Ghostman
Compare: Laura to the Speaker.
I am not proud of this measure. The way this was done was unfair to the people. Pelosi hid Reps. behind closed doors — Reps. who should have come forward with their honest positions. She “papered over” the problems and by watering everything down she protected some, but hurt more democrats. It would have been better for this version of the bill to fail. At least then the dems who were really trying to do the right thing could go on record. She took a lot of wind out of a lot of sails, and she caused a lot of damage to the support in the polls for the 110th Congress.
Their constituents elected them to stop this war. Some of them squashed better amendments to this bill, and their constituents will not know about it. This is the strongest legislation that we’re going to get. After this it will be weaker opposition to Bush’s war. This spending bill is nothing to be proud of.
Hell yes Madame speaker!!!
Off topic
Mrs. K8 - Fort Meade fire
Give it a minute to download - large pictures
Oklahoma kiddo @ 55
Pelosi has a better driving record.
excellent dkos diary on maxine waters’ response to the supplemental (via a conference call).
re KO - they must have pictures of Specter up in the WH
#59, punaise: that is cruel, ugly, and mean. And, I’m laughing my ass off! Good to see you and dear coastie.
Ghostman
Mauimom @ 37
Maybe that would piss off enough of our reps to realize impeachment is the only way to get rid of this illegal, dangerous maladministration.
18 more months of war funding seems to suck yet it is part of the
strategy to have a Democratic exit plan well in place 18 months
prior to 2008 election.( do I really believe a Dem. Pres. is going to
totally get us out of Iraq- no bec. it’s the oil-EVEN HILLARY SAID IT) That way the Rethugs can’t tar them as not supporting the troops ie… not being patriotic. In the meantimeit clears the deck for the investigative process to go full bore.
IT IS THIS TORPEDO THAT’S GOING TO SINK THEIR SHIP.
Leahy on KO right now
selise @
25
I get it. My heart was with Maxine and the Out of Iraq caucus. I’m just hoping Eli is right and we’re at some kind of place where “this is a start.”
Did Pelosi really beat Bush?
This is a victory???
Are you sure???
Skeptical Bob in HI
“If they don’t come voluntarily, I will subpeona”
The Honorable Mr. John Lewis
http://www.tompaine.com/articl.....tually.php
Several witnesses coming, lots of testimony to get to.
http://www.rawstory.com/showar......23328.asp OT: HALLIBRURTON TO OPEN IN MEXICO
Tony Snow just mocked a female reporter on KO. WhaWhaWhaWhaWha….
Eubanks on ATC, TPM on ATC
Above the fold even.
Leahy just said on Oddball that he has a few witnesses holding back just in case he needs them. I hope the USA’s that are upset about this whole mess are going to give up karls shop.
Are the Dems funding the war for 18 months so they don’t have to fret about it any longer?
I bet old Cheney is measuring new yachts and painting targets on Iran this evening with his new windfall. Gawd knows what else!
Looks like 5000 lobbying A*P*Cers is worth over 122 (ish) billion out of the pockets of those who don’t even want this war.
[angie, get me a pillow to scream into! I’ll make popcorn later]
dreamcatcher @ 76
I should add that I speak as a veteran.
Iraqgate is far more serious than Watergate. There is really no comparision between either of these tawdry events. How many people died as a result of the lies surrounding Watergate? How many have perished as a result of the Bush lies getting us into Iraq?
John Dean coming up on KO
Ahhhh, KO & Leahy together. The most refreshing 15 minutes I’ve spent in years. Leahy’s suggesting a few additional witnesses might come forward, did a nice job describing the Eubanks / Big Tobacco micromanaging. I thought he looked & sounded great!
Mrs. K8 @ 18
Thank you but I don’t deserve to be in the same sentence as Mr. Edwards. Thank you anyway but that is a compliment that needs to be worked at to achieve. I am going to try my hardest to get there.
Leahy looks so calm compared to all that hyperactive bushit…
I’ve got a fresh, nice goose down pillow for you right here, ESAR @ 75.
lots of tea, cocoa, hope and a pellet stove too!
(giving more money is funding more mercenaries, not our soldiers who were sent by Commander Codpiece and certainly not “helping” Iraqis and Afghans.)
Jane Hamsher @ 66
Even if this is as good as it gets, it’s still better than where we were yesterday. And attaching a deadline to an 18-month appropriations bill might be the *only* way to get Bush to swallow the poison pill of withdrawal (although I suspect he’ll automatically veto *anything* that gets us out before his term ends).
I think the reality is that unless and until Bush and his war get so unpopular that the Republicans start bailing on it, it will be extremely difficult for the Democrats to actually stop the war. They simply do not have the votes to stop a filibuster or override a veto (or successfully complete an impeachment).
So until they have the votes to actually stop the war, the best the Democrats can do is show that they are determined to end the war, and the Republicans are determined to prolong it.
In this specific case, they opted for a unified compromise victory instead of a noble but divided defeat. If they can get the Blue Dog wankers on board, they can try again with something more aggressive. It won’t get past Bush’s veto, unfortunately…
another thing that really bothers me is what moveon did. according to the dkos diary i linked to above maxine waters told supporters that there has been a lot of pressure from moveon to vote for the supplemental funding.
moveon justified this by doing a bogus “poll” (really more of a push-poll). there is an excellent analysis from John Stauber of PRwatch on this:
that’s just the begining… i highly recommend the whole thing.
John Stauber writes with Sheldon Rampton and their book “the best war ever” (about the lies that took the country to war in iraq), was featured here on the fdl book salon.
I suspect after Bush vetos, Nancy will tighten the screws… I suspect she was a no-nonsense mama…
You know this supplemental is only enough to get us to September, don’t you?
$100 billion now
And whatever they give them this Summer
$100 billion plus the other $40 billion is only enough for 5 more months of Shrub’s pen*s extension
Atrios:
New tactic for those of us who live in a Republican powned district.
Call your congresscritters office and remind them (as the ’solid’ repug you are) of the Dem majority in congress prior to 1994. Ask them if this is where we want our wonderful party (ugh) to go.
I have staffers listening to my blather!
john in sacramento @ 86
september 2008. until just before the elections.
Any bill that the Chimp would veto couldn’t be all bad.
I realize it is a great disappointment to many people.
I view it as progress–a statement that Congress does in fact have oversight power (nyah nyah,Tony Snow)
Let’s see where they go from here.
Many of the comments from both sides used terms that are inappropriate or undefined so far as the situation in Iraq is concerned. Moreover, many used terms that are by themselves incorrect. Additionally many assumptions are based on nothing but their imagination. Finally several statements were just flat out wrong.
For example, several commented that we would be giving the enemy a “date certain” when our troops would leave. Not true! Nor does the “timeline” tell anyone, friend or foe, when the troops will leave. The bill has both a timeline as well as a deadline. If the conditions for the sequence of events required by the timeline are met, then the troops could possibly be brought home well before the deadline.
Several stated the bill would damage the morale of our troops. However, there was no indication whatsoever that this assumption was based on a poll of the troops. I fail to see what is demoralizing about better training, better and more equipment, and better care when you return home.
A very significant portion of this war on terror is so much BS. Many of the fathers, who some refer to as “insurrgents”, are merely seeking revenge for the immoral killing of their family members. The majority of the people of Iraq now acknowledge that the situation was better under the rule of Sadam Hussein. ( it is all relative ) An even larger majority want our troops withdrawn. We would do well to actually get some numbers from polls about what the people of Iraq think, rather than make wild speculation as was done in some of the comments.
Over and over again, we keep hearing about “the mission” and “victory”. I am very familiar with the dictionary meaning of these terms, but what the hell is the meaning with regard to the calamity in Iraq. It was never in the best interest of this country to go to Iraq in the first place.
Just one more. Otherwise I just get to upset.
What is the basis of the assumption that “they” will follow us home. Al Queda and the Taliban defeated Russia and they did not chase them and go into Russia in greater numbers than before. Russia was not defeated because of the loss of their troops. Russia lost the war financially. The way I count, a two trillion dollar bill suggests that we have also been beaten. At the very least we have lost this battle. The administration does not even recognize the stated goals of the so called enemy.
selise @ 89
I think he’s saying that Bush will burn through those 18 months’ worth of funds in five months.
“bush has got his manhood involved in this”
John Dean
Nancy, you’re the greatest!
Had the liberals voted against the measure, the loss of the bill would have been touted as a huge defeat for Nancy, and it would have harmed her leadership. As a supporter of a complete and immediate withdrawal of the troops, I understand that the bill does not have any teeth to ensure the troops come home.
The bill is a good first step.
Eli @ 87
i can’t tell you the number of times (i’ve lost count) over the past few years that i’ve said something like “i hope i’m full of shit and they are right”. this is another one of those times….
John Dean: I think Bush has got his manhood in this and he won’t back down.
Also, he thinks the American people care a great deal about this.
Yes, we do!!!
Balrog @
6
Tony Snowjob can go blow it his wazoo…
The more cornered Bush becomes, the more dangerous this animal will be.
Eli @ 92
thanks for setting me straight…
hmmm… if bush does do that, can we bring the troops home sooner?
Eli @ 83
This is absolutely correct, we simply do not have the numbers.
But we opened the window further, so that fence sitters begin to see there is another way.
And we as Democratic Party members and progressives have NOT used all the tools we have at our disposal, particularly those of us who are activists and bloggers.
You see, I don’t think we’ve made it hurt. I mean HURT. I don’t think we’ve snowed Republicans’ offices with faxes and emails, haven’t had enough regular and systematic protests in front of their offices. I can see it beginning to happen; a Congressman’s office was vandalized here in MI on Tuesday, for example. But a splash-and-dash with red paint is not enough to make them feel it. They need to hear us and see us, their constituents, every single hour of every single day and suffer for it, just as the troops do.
Who are the Republican moderates running in primaries against existing warmongering Republicans with seats in play in 2008? Are there strong Dems there that need help, or should we be supporting through PACs these moderate Repubs? They’ve done it to us, remember, the most obvious examples being Joe Lieberman and Ralph Nader. We can play that game, too, and we can do it better.
But we have to get our own sh*t together and now, or we’re going to continue to spin our wheels now and in January of 2009 without enought votes regardless of the president in office.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 98
I’d like to think that he couldn’t *get* much more dangerous, but I know better.
(I think he’s been itching to nuke someone ever since they showed him The Button, and he’s still itching to take on Iran. Not a good combination.)
Nancy also caved to the pressure from others in Congress and to A*P*C wrt Iran although there are whispers that she will take Iran up again in a separate bill.
I am truly sick of this.
We are not living in the Hell we have wrought ‘over there’.
The World Cannot Wait as our politicians play their hand.
I’m sticking with John Lewis, Gandhi, and MLK.
I may be flamed here and elsewhere for my “naivete”, but goodness sakes alive, I cannot bear this shame much longer.
Rayne @ 100
Oh, I think we should let the Republicans shoot themselves in the foot by running as many warmongers as they want in the 2008 general elections. Why would we want them to field antiwar moderates who might actually win?
Now, if you’re talking red districts and states, I’m with ya, but not blue or purple ones.
With the history that we know (think about what we don’t know) of the Bush administration, can there be any doubt that the presidential election was rigged by James Baker, Karl Rove, and others against Gore?
I will be very interested to see how John Lewis votes on this. Vote tomorrow, as I read it. He’s my rep.
so, if Bush vetos the supplemental, how will he get his money?
OldCoastie @ 106
Steal it from Social Security, most likely…
Mrs. K8 @ 31
There is a reason that intelligent and well meaning people who want the war to end are divided by a horrible wedge on this issue. The reason is that there is no good “solution”. There is no honorable end to this disaster caused by the pResident and his brain dead neocons.
OldCoastie @ 106
He’ll likely rip it off from “entitlements.”
It’s all borrowed money anyhoo, OC.
No worries!
tbsa @ 110
can he do that? seriously - where’s he gonna get the money?
The government’s fiscal year begins on October 1, not January 1. The supplemental would cover operations until the beginning of the new fiscal year October 1, 2007.