
CSPAN screen shot thanks to this C&L story.
During Friday's hearing of the House Committee on Government Oversight and Reform, Valerie Plame Wilson calmly explained that her identity as a covert agent of the United States had been "carelessly and recklessly abused" by White House officials, including Dick Cheney, Scooter Libby, and Karl Rove. That action ended her covert career, exposed her classified cover operation and risked the lives of unknown others who were connected with that cover. With the personal clearance of the Director of the CIA, Committee Chairman Henry Waxman read a statement declaring that Plame had been a covert agent when the White House exposed her identity and employment, that her status had been classified and that the CIA had taken active steps to protect her classified identity and employment. Plame's sworn testimony and responses to questions confirmed these facts and the fact that during the past five years, until the White House outed her, the CIA had sent her overseas on secret, covert missions, while she also held supervisory positions in the CIA's Counter Proliferation Division, which deals with some of the most sensitive and critical issues in the US intelligence community.
Given the importance of this work and the obvious need to conceal the identities and secret covers of agents working in the field, you'd think that US laws would be written to protect covert agents like Valerie Plame, to encourage government officials to protect the identities of covert agents and to punish those who revealed their status and employment. But according to Republican attorney Victoria Toensing, who claims she is responsible for drafting the Intelligence Identities Protection Act, Valerie Wilson and other covert agents like her are not covered by the IIPA, even though protecting the identities of our covert agents would seem the obvious purpose of this statute. So let's examine Toensing's arguments, one by one.
Toensing first claimed without qualification that Plame was not in fact a covert agent, but when questioned by Committee Chairman Waxman, Toensing conceded that she had not discussed any of the relevant facts necessary to support her conclusion with the CIA or Plame. Instead, Toensing claimed she was making a legal argument: whatever Plame and the CIA thought about Plame's covert status, Plame was not a covert agent "under the statute." So what was missing?
According to Toensing, the CIA could not legally claim covert status for Plame, because Plame had not been "stationed" oversees within the requisite five-year period before she was outed by the White House. (Toensing made the same "not stationed abroad" argument in her WaPo op-ed.) However, the IIPA does not require that an agent be "stationed" overseas in the sense of residing there; it requires only that the agent be a person . . .
. . . who is serving outside the United States or has within the last five years served outside the United States.
Toensing is apparently claiming that the statute must be construed narrowly to exclude protecting covert agents with secret oversees assignments but whose residence/base is in the US. So if they were based/resided in the US, but served via frequent covert missions to Lebanon and Iran, they would not be covered; but if they were based in England, and had exactly the same assignments to Lebanon and Iran, they would be covered, under Toensing's interpretation.
Of course, the IIPA does not make this distinction and there would be no logical reason for it to do so; indeed, it would make perfect sense for the CIA to have persons residing/based in the US under secret cover that allowed them to travel abroad from time to time on secret covert missions. So why would a reviewing court interpret the statute to cover some agents but not others when their assignments were identical and the reasons for protecting both were exactly the same? And why should a court conclude that Congress would intend such an illogical and dangerous result for America's agents when there is no language or reason to suggest it?
IIPA in fact uses the term "resides" when it means living in a particular country, but uses "serving outside the United States" when it doesn't mean "reside" there; this seems a clear indication that Congress did not mean the words "serving outside the United States" to mean "stationed," as Toensing suggests. Larry Johnson explains this point further in this post.
Next, Toensing argued that the CIA was not actively protecting the secrecy of Plame's covert status, so Plame can't be considered "covert." But according to the Waxman statement approved by the Director of the CIA, and confirmed by Plame's sworn testimony, the CIA was protecting her covert status during the relevant period. Further, the creation of a cover story (Brewster-Jennings) and the CIA official's unsuccessful effort to persuade Novak not to publish his article are further evidence of an active effort. But that isn't enough for Toensing, because she is pushing a far more extreme view of the statutue.
Toensing argued, for example, that the CIA did not explicitly warn White House officials that Plame was a covert agent covered by the IIPA, implying that the CIA must effectively expose an agent to people who have no need to know such details in order to be deemed taking "active measures" to protect that agent. (But recall that the INR memo did list her employment as secret.) But that is not the only extreme argument Toensing made. She also argued that because DCI Tenet did not personally call Robert Novak to persuade Novak not to reveal Plame's employment, that failure is evidence that the CIA was not effectively protecting her status. But is Toensing claiming that unless the DCI personally intervenes with a reporter to protect an agent, then that agent is not protected by the IIPA?
Or is Toensing implying that if the CIA fails to convince a reporter not to reveal classified information revealing a covert agent's status, that fact alone can be used to remove the agent from protected status and bar (or be a defense to) a prosecution of the government official who revealed the information to the reporter? Followed to its logical extreme, that argument would mean that the IIPA applies only if the reporter agrees not to publish, but if he/she does publish, the IIPA can't be applied, even though that is precisely when it should apply if it is to have a deterrent effect in protecting other agents from exposure. It is hard to imagine that a court would accept such extreme arguments and absurd outcomes that so clearly undermine the purpose of the statute.
Toensing did not say that Plame might be covered if all the facts were known, nor did she suggest that an evidentiary hearing would be necessary to determine the facts about the CIA protection. Instead, Toensing said, without qualification, that Plame wasn't covered under the statute. So Toensing appears to be suggesting the extreme view that any laxity on the part of the CIA to protect an agent means that the agent is, as a matter of law, not covered by the IIPA.
Of course, the relevant sections of IIPA do not require that the CIA's protection efforts be perfect. The statute requires only that . . .
. . . the United States is taking affirmative measures to conceal such covert agent’s intelligence relationship to the United States
The protection the IIPA provides to the nation's agents depends in no small part on a credible deterrent effect from the possible prosecution and imprisonment for those who expose covert agents. Yet Toensing is undermining that deterrent by arguing for an interpretation under which agents are not covered and no one can be prosecuted if there is any reason to believe the CIA was less than perfect in concealing their covert identity.
Just as the Republicans in the hearing tried to blame the CIA for Plame's outing, what Toensing is attempting with her extreme and dangerous interpretations is to rewrite IIPA so that it is the quality and success of the CIA's protective actions that are on trial, not the actions of the persons who leaked the classified information. If you can undermine prosecutions under the IIPA so easily, then no agent would ever be safe from exposure, because someone could always claim that the CIA had not done everything conceivable to protect the agent. And the disclosure itself would be proof of this failure.
Toensing's interpretation of the statute is thus essentially circular and renders the statute virtually useless as a deterrent. If an agent is outed, that agent may not be covered by the statute, because the mere fact of the outing is evidence that the CIA was not sufficiently protecting the agent. Case closed. No prosecution; no protection for America's covert agents.
Now lets apply Toensing's interpretation to a hypothetical. Suppose that Karl Rove knew that Valerie Plame was a covert agent serving from time to time in Iran, and Rove was carelessly given that information because a CIA official gave the information to Dick Cheney/Libby when they asked for it but didn't expressly tell Cheney/Libby to tell anyone else (Rove) not to reveal this. Then suppose Rove deliberately, knowingly leaked the agent's identity. If all this happened, then no one could be prosecuted under the IIPA, and the Act's deterrent value in protecting agents would be lost. That's the logic of Toensing's extreme interpretation.
The Republicans on the House Committee purposely invited Victoria Toensing, because they regard her as their national security "expert" on the laws that are supposed to protect our nation's secret agents. But what Victoria Toensing proved Friday is that she has either egregiously misinterpreted the statute to render it unworkable or egregiously mis-drafted a statute that does not do what it purports to do. If her interpretations are wrong, as they most assuredly are because they are inconsistent with the statutory wording and lead to absurd results inconsistent with the statutory purpose, then she is not the kind of "expert" to whom anyone should be listening. If her interpretations are correct, the statute she claims she drafted does not protect the nation's covert agents, even though everyone, including the Congress, the CIA, and the agents themselves thought it did protect the nation's agents. Either way, why should anyone rely on lawyers like Toensing to explain the law or protect our spies?
And one last thing: Chairman Waxman asked Plame whether anyone from the White House had ever apologized to her or expressed any regret for outing her, destroying her cover and jeopardizing the lives and careers of others associated with her work and cover operation? "No, Mr Chairman," she said. But we should ask the same question to Republican "legal expert" Victoria Toensing. Has Toensing apologized to Valerie Plame and all the nation's covert agents for having written (or grossly misinterpreted) a statute whose purpose was to protect them from exposure but which, under Toensing's interpretation, provides as much protection as Russian Roulette? Digby has the answer.
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J U S T I C E !!!
Good Morning FDL!
Now to fiish reading the post
Investigations!! Thank you scarecrow!
Mornin’ lhp, enjoyed yr post yesterday. How important is it that Black/Guam are back on the table?
Cbl, want to summarize the cspan coverage of the good stuff for people on this thread? A lovely way to start the morning.
Imus wearin’ his BushCo Tool belt this morning to talk with Andrea Mitchell. He starts by calling the Libby trial old news. Guess he could use a little spotlighting this morning — imusmail@wfan.com, imus@msnbc.
At least he mentions Trump’s calling Bush the worst president ever.
And if you can stomach the show, Rob Bartlett does a prime parody of Al Gone-zales to the tune of “My Way.” Look for it at the wfan.com site Instant Replay. Or maybe somebody’ll pick it up for C&L if it’s replayed right before the 9 am ET end of the show.
I saw on the blogs yesterday that Brit Hume said that Mrs Plame lied under oath. Does she have a case against him in law?
In fact, under the rules of Statutory Construction when two different terms are used to describe something that could have been the same thing, you are reqyuired to read them as meaning two different things (unless there is a definitions section of the statute that says they can be used interchangably)
Scarecrow — thanks so much for this. All those frequent references she made to being a Goldwater Girl during the hearing, I thought the whole performance was a sort of personal tip toe through some very old, very faded tulips. But in an assertive, frantic sort of way. I kept having this Miss Haversham feeling through her entire testimony — it was very, very odd.
When might we see the still open record of Waxman’s hearing reflect a rebuttal to Toensing’s statements?
Anyone know how long that sort of thing might take? Waxman was pretty quick on the draw with the followup letter to Josh Bolton about what steps the White House took to review the leak, and take appropriate measures.
Hopefully, we’ll see some smackdown soon. I’ll help with the research!
at your service egregious -
C Span this week -
Senate Judiciary Comm.
Tuesday
3/20/07 10 am
COMBATING WAR PROFITEERING: ARE WE DOING ENOUGH TO INVESTIGATE AND PROSECUTE CONTRACTING FRAUD AND ABUSE IN IRAQ
Senate Judiciary Comm.
Wednesday
3/21/07 10am
MISUSE OF PATRIOT ACT POWERS: THE INSPECTOR GENERAL’S FINDINGS OF IMPR
Thursday
3/22/7
Sen. Byron Dorgan (D-ND) and Rep. Henry Waxman (D-CA) co-chair a meeting on the national security implicatings of disclosing a covert agent’s identity. Former intelligence agents participate in the meeting, co-sponsored by the Sen. Democratic Policy Committee and Democratic members of the Hse. Gov. Reform Comm.
7/22/2005: WASHINGTON, DC: 2 hr. 15 min.: CSPAN3
(hearing time not yet listed)
Morning folks. Another great post Scarecrow.
cbl—Thanks, you’re a sweetheart.
Remember when such investigations were just a dream for us? Now they are the stuff of Republican nightmares. Tsk.
This phrase stopped me cold, Scarecrow:
“carelessly and recklessly abused”
I saw Plame’s testimony live, and it hit me then, too.
This pretty much sums up the entire governing philosophy of Team BushCo. As our wounded troops have learned. Along with the people of New Orleans and the Gulf. And the sailors used for the Mission Accomplished photo-stunt. And, well the examples are legion.
As about to be former AG Alberto Gonzales is in the process of finding out.
Mod help needed in my #4 — please insert a space after morning- so the imusmail website link is correct. Thanks, spotted that too late to edit.
Prairie at 13 — I got it for you. If you refresh your page, it should be fixed. :)
Excellent parsing of her pregnable parsing.
You have reduced her ridiculous rationale to rubble.
you know scarecrow, your post is very good but sometimes even arguing a point gives the oposing view a credibility it didn’t have if there were no argument
the statue says plain and simple, “served or has served within 5 years”
that ends it, from there instead of arguing the statement should just be like so;
I would start with’
“tonesing is trying the juevenile trick of redefining words to protect her clearly inacurate statements in the past or to protect the people that violated the act, in essence, committing this crime herself”
and I would go on;
“when toenseng says “she had to have been stationed” she has either not read the statute or is lying, one or the other”
giving any weight at all to her redefinition of the word “served” only creates a debate that is not there
watching toensing was painful…. i felt both ashamed on her behalf and angry that she would continue in her attempts to manipulate and lie.
btw, waxman has ANOTHER hearing this morning (10am on c-span):
“Full Committee hearing to Examine Allegations of Political Interference with Government Climate Change Science”
with james hansen (Director, NASA, Goddard Institute for Space Studies) and james connaughton (White House Council on Environmental Quality) testifying.
i’m expecting this to be a good one too - although i don’t expect the media attention of friday’s hearing… but saving the planet is also important - and this in yet another example of the bush administration’s attempts to subvert the “intelligence”.
THANK YOU!
Can we forget about her after today? She is making me feel bad about being a lawyer.
morning, all… coffee anyone?
I gathered she was invited to specifically address the more recent presidential “law” not the thing she helped draft…..which she eventually said, in THAT case, sure, what they did was illegal.
(sorry so garbled, don’t have time to look up, am procrastinating studying for test, gotta go)
OldCoastie @ 19
black pleeze
Christy Hardin Smith @ 14
Thanks, Christy! Listening to Imus and Kurtz now talking about the Plame testimony. Both agreeing the Wilsons are going to be all right, she’s got a book deal.
Guess what, guys. It’s America that’s not gonna be all right. That’s why there was a trial of Libby and a prosecutor talking about “sand in the eyes.” That’s why there are hearings. Because the Plame leak was one more piece of the jigsaw of self-serving and reckless endangerment that is BushCo.
Scarecrow, excellent piece. The only reason Toensing was invited by the Republicans was because she is a Party loyalist whose mission was to muddy the waters. Your post settles out the mud she slung about.
egregious @ 3
They are? I missed that. Very very nice.
I like the Guam firing because is so lacking in ambuguity.
I also like the thing that just came out that right after Carol Lam notified DOJ that she was going to subpeone somebody at CIE (which I believe she is required to do, just like with subpeonaing the press, you need permisssion from Washington)the next day the email goes out tat they have to fire her.
Nice, clear, easy for a jury to understand.
Did I say Jury? Silly me
Scarecrow -
Most excellent dish of slice-and-dice!
The Plame comment that most hit *me* in the *gut* was (paraphrased), “As a CIA agent, you expect other countries to try to take you out; you don’t expect it from your own government.” Can’t imagine why that didn’t make it into a MSM soundclip. ;-(
Friday was my first experience w/toesuck……and she didn’t disappoint as a prime example of talking head thugs. UGH!
Your wrong on this my little puppies.
Good morning firedogs. Sunny day in MA, but still lots of ice left over from the first interesting snow of the winter. Mother Nature is not well.
lhp — thanks for the expansion of the statutory construction argument.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 7
Actually, I thought the whole thing looked like a violation of attorney advertizing rules. I don’t know what they are in DC, but in NY I think she might have crossed the line
lhp Did I say Jury? Silly me
Well, you might have meant Grand Jury :)
that screen shot above of V.Toensing definately has a ’slum landlord’ sort of quality.
“I can’t imagine how the rats would have gotten into the walls we put traps in the alley 3 years ago”
does waxman read the lake?
of not we need to email or fax scarcrow’s piece along with some of the comments over to his office
if someone has his ear direct him over to this post before his next session
Victoria Toecheese is a horrible, horrible person. Her husband isn’t very nice either.
To their credit, they found each other, and it appears to be a good match. Ick.
She is just a liar. She doesn’t have a lick of respect for the truth, just her agenda.
Scarecrow @ 26
Thanks for for taking a ginsue to Vicky’s performance
Uh what happened to all of Valerie’s contacts/informants after she was exposed as a spy has she been able to contact any of them? Did the Iraq’s or Iranian’s get them? Did they disappear into the woodwork, or where they Disappeared? We don’t need names however wouldn’t the death of any of her contacts be neglegent homicde on the part of Cheney, Scooter and Rove. Much like a drunk driver who runs over a busload of kids I’m sure the bushies didn’t mean it but drinking or leaking is an action which has likly side effects which you go to jail for if somebody ends up dead as a direct result of your actions.
Knut Wicksell @
5
I was wondering that myself. He clearly defamed Valerie Wilson, and didn’t retract even after Juan Williams corrected some of his misstatements.
Deftly done, scarecrow. Thanks.
Having been a professional musician for over twenty years, I can say with some confidence that Toensing’s testimony appears to have been chemically enhanced. She gibbered like a Lovecraftian madman.
egregious @ 28
eg
you and I seem to have the same fantasy life
lhp—
Involving a prosecutor? lol
tommy—thx for the Lovecraft reference. There’s some dark stuff going on.
perris at 16: if you conclude that Toensing is more credible after reading my post, then I obviously failed. You get to write the next one.
Scarecrow @ 33
She may now fall under the public person exception (how bizzare is that? to go from being undercover to being a public person) in which case she would have to prove “actual malice” as opposed to rank stupidity and ignorance.
Brit has a track record to support the stupid and uninformed defence
egregious @ 36
No, involving prosecutions. Get you mind out of the gutter
emptywheel’s put up an interesting post yesterday on Tom Davis:
prolley mentioned here, but I missed it…
looseheadprop @
18
That THING is not a lawyer.
It’s a mockery of a lawyer.
Never worry a second we would ever think that THING was in the same profession. Toensing is clearly a propagandiste — totally different profession.
She doesn’t even do that well; were I a propagandiste I’d be embarrassed.
eg
you crack me up sometimes.
From readings on the rise of the 3rd Reich one thing I’ve taken away is the role that Party loyalty played in their goal of destroying the Weimar Republic. Republicans are merely repeating a page out of history. Know the enemy.
Cheney has finally been greeted as a liberator.
The Fourth Anniversary of The Iraq War is upon us.
Cheney got flowers :)
we can give toensing the unearned deference of a reasoned parsing and demolition of her argument, as scarecrow has done here (brilliantly, as usual).
but we should also never forget that she is just blowing a lot of hot air, tapped no doubt from her enormous reserve.
what an absolute…fill in the blank… she is.
Christy Hardin Smith @
7
Or she was Gloria Swanson in Sunset Boulevard: “I’m ready for my close-up, Mr. DeMille!”
from tomdispatch - a must read on this very sad day:
The Anniversary From Hell
by Anthony Arnove and Tom Engelhardt
…
looseheadprop @ 24
Um, did you mean Grand Jury?
Scarecrow @ 38
well I clearly didn’t write what I intended, you your post is excellant referance with incredible points for me and progressives to tap
I’m even sending it to waxman
what I meant to say is that in conversation with someone who is using toenail as their referance, instead of giving them fact after fact I shoot them down immediatley
when someone brings up her testimony rather then giving them the facts and rasoning I simply cut right to the chase;
“she either hasn’t read the act or she’s a liar, take your pick”
I point out the act says “served within 5 year it doesn’t say “stationed within 5 years”
“the women is a liar and deliberately lying to protect treason, making her a traitor along with those that committed the crime in the first place”
I will save and use your post for referance it is so good, so the point I was making didn’t come through
anyway, let me say it again, this is a great post and I hope waxman gets a copy
Rayne @ 49
Girl, you owe me a coke.
Oh…I see now that looseheadprop, egregious and I are having the same fantasy.
Was it good for you gals, too? Heh.
edit: egregious, you want that coke with Jack, Bacardi dark or silver, or Captain Morgan?
I’m just stopping by to drop off today’s installment of
Dick Cheney Controls Tim Russert.
Have a great Monday everyone!
I would love for Victoria to be deposed in the Plame/Wilson lawsuit. She needs to be socked with damages for all the lies she spreads.
lhp—Wait til Rayne reads down farther.
And hey where’s Marcy? With Christy here we’ve got most of the founding members of the Office Supplies Support group.
Bluetoe @ 44
The Bushies take it one step further: You have to not only put party above country, but Bush above party.
That’s why the US Attorneys’ purging scandal has upset a lot of diehard Republicans: They’re finally realizing that Bush and his minions are using them just as much they’re using everyone else. The friend of a thug is just his last victim.
Refresh, egregious, you’ll see I finally caught up. Got to quit with the multi-tasking if I’m ever going to keep up with you and lhp.
Rayne @ 57
How’s the toast situation? Working on some snappy line re the administration being toast…
Thanks for the coke, plain please, I’m off the hard stuff.
the neo cons have indeed developed a “party loyalty” that is dumbfounding, I’ve seen people who I once respected as patriots abandon every single American principle they once stood for so as to make like the administrations policies are okay with them
it’s bizzare and frightening
I remember growing up, (I’m jewish, I couldn’t understand how people stood by in Germany while the Nazis took over, I didn’t think it was possible and now with history to teach us the lesson of nazi germany I didn’t think it could possibly happen again
yet here we are and it was happening
hopefully our victory in congress will put an end to this rise of the fascists
OldCoastie @ 41
My longstanding suspicion is that Bush and/or Cheney told Fitz that they can secretly declassify and reclassify anything (or anyone) they want to, so no one from the White House can truly leak classified information if the President told them to do it. (If the President told them to do it, then he must have been declassifying it for them.) And the President wouldn’t even have to tell them it was classfied to begin with, since he was insta-declassifying it at the time. Ergo, no one knew they were leaking classified information, since the President didn’t tell them it was classfied to begin with, or he told them he was insta-declassifying it for them.
Your average smirky 14-year-old would find himself grounded for a week if he tried an argument like this. And someone should really follow up on the paper trail here. If you insta-declassify a covert agent, you should probably tell someone about it, seeing as how you could get someone killed. Fitz, on the other hand, probably saw that there was reasonable doubt here, and thus didn’t bring IIPA or espionage charges.
Uh. Mah. Gawd. My kitty just brought me a present of a large, hairy wood spider, half dead, and laid at my feet. She apparently thought this was a lovey thing to do, and demanded scratches and love. If Mr. ReddHedd reads this, he’ll know exactly how difficult it was for me to give scratches while a half-living spider was crawling by me on the arm of the couch. Not the way to start my morning. *shudder* I know that cats do this out of love, but I’m thoroughly creeped out, and I’ve had to dispatch a spider (not the easiest thing for a severely arachnaphobic person such as myself). Eeeep. I had to share, because I am completely creeped out at the moment.
Need more coffee…
She was awful to watch.
She came off as she is, the partisan hack with an agenda.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 61
I think you ought to pretend to eat it or you will hurt your cat’s feelings. Just saying ;)
Redd - you are a woman of great courage.
Oh Christy, I’m so sorry.
But look at it this way, the day should all go better starting from here, yes?
Sorry, CHS!
Years ago, we were getting ready for bed, and my wife was washing her face. I heard her make a noise I’d never heard before–a shudder of complete horror. I rushed in, and a hairy spider the size of my palm (I’m 6′3″) had just fallen off the back of the towel and landed on the floor.
Hideous. Luckily, it didn’t move very fast. I’ve blocked the memory of dispatching it.
Need some help on one issue you mention, Scarecrow. It’s the bit about where the “INR memo did list her employment as secret.” In the last day I’ve read (here, Kos, somewhere else…apologies, but I don’t remember where, but can assure you it wasn’t Fox or any other MSM) that the “secret” notation on the INR memo applied to the meeting at CIA, the context in which Valerie was mentioned, not specifically to her covert status.
It might seem like a nit, but when you’re trying to convince others of your argument, facts help. And I remain confused on this one. Thanks.
egregious @ 58
Unfortunately the charcoal maker was at it again yesterday. I will say that serendipitous kitchen design has kept me from throwing out the toaster; I put the appliance “garage” on the counter immediately next to the range, and I bought a range hood with 300 cfm exhaust.
Downside: everybody else in the neighborhood can tell when the spouse has made toast for breakfast. [sigh]
perris @ 59
i’m jewish too, and always was stupefied by how average germans supported hitler’s rise to power and his nihilistic wars.
now, thanks to bush and his circle, and the enormous hordes of their supporters across the country, i have to reappraise. because it’s obvious we are going through much the same struggle. i wouldn’t put it in the past tense, either.
Christy @ 6:03 -
Just think of your “large, hairy wood spider, half dead” as toensing and you probably won’t have any problems dispatching it. *g*
trifecta @ 63
Yeah, I heard that too. At least one bite is the usual custom.
Celtic Muse — the INR point is made in Larry Johnson’s post, but it’s worth checking out.
speaking of rich fantasy lives . . .
I think she knew how ridiculous, legally specious, and professionally embarassing she sounded hence that dour visage - I think she was conscripted and knew she had no say in the matter after years of making cash and cachet off these thugs
but, but Karl, Joe and I are scheduled for the NRO We’re Whining! Cruise® that week . . .
would also like to think she was concerned about the damage she was doing the firm’s reputation and ability to attract future clients
Celtic Music @ 67
I believe that the entire paragraph was marked S for secret.
Scarecrow @ 71
And they taste just like chicken.
Seance #1:
Big Russ is disappointed in you Tim.
He didn’t raise you to be controlled by evil people.
But do I have to stand up to them?
Maybe said this on Friday, but because we don’t watch TV, had never seen/heard Victoria Toensing before. I rely on FDL for facts about Libby, Plame et al. But I rely on my instincts to some extent as well. VT is a desperate harpy. It was palpable. And it seemed clear early on that she’d been coached to stall, stall, stall. And even though the panel began reclaiming their time, she succeeded in some measure in sucking up valuable seconds/minutes. The contrast between Toensing and Plame could not have been more stunning. The physical, the demeanor, the whole works. And all along the way, I believed that VT was talking out of her butt a good part of the time. Mooning the committee, in a manner of speaking. Could someone tell me how that woman has “succeeded” such that she got to a position of some prominence? It’s the ghost of Kathleen Harris, VT’s identical twin, separated at birth, eh? Thanks, Scarecrow, for making me smart(er). It’s a tough job, but someone has to do it!
If Plame wasn’t covered, I would be ashamed to claim I was responsible for drafting the legislation.
dmg @ 69
I think of those poor teenagers, The White Rose Society, and how the public must have seen them as just rabble rousing, trouble making children as they tried to break through the German public’s perception of Hitler.
I get the same thing from my own family; they treat me like I’ve gone off the deep end. “Oh, it’s just the way she is, so radical…”
It’s cognitive dissonance, working at a scale like that we’d find studying mass hysteria. I cannot absolve them, but at least I can understand the mechanism that kept the German populace in thrall.
old gold @ 78
In Larry Johnson’s post, which I link to, he cites another attorney/staff member of the committee that drafted the legislation. Apparently, not everyone agrees about the role Toensing played.
MSNBC is doing a full dauy of war coverage. . .buyer beware.
Maybe we need to learn more about the White Rose Society.
Observing the neocon orwellian spin on the hearing is like driving by a horrific car accident scene. You try not to rubberneck but it’s hard to avoid the voyeuristic urge to gape.
They seem to have watched an entirely different hearing or they have invisible language translators in their ears ala united nations which convert plain english into wingnuttese. My 87 year father-in-law, a little hard of hearing with a touch of short term memory lapses watched the whole thing & had no trouble zeroing in all on the key moments.
Frank Probst @74: Yes, that’s what I understood. So, I guess the answer to my question is that everything in that paragraph should be considered classified. Thanks.
die Weisse Rose
raven at 81 — Yes, having Tucker Carlson talk about flawed Iraq strategy is so jarring, I had to turn off my teevee.
The LA Times has a nice big fat headline article up on Dem oversight.
This is extremely catty, completely irrelevant, shallow and inane but Valerie Plame made that woman look like a constipated toad.
(Apologies to toads worldwide)
Christi, just think of the hairy wood spider as vapid vicki. That should help the disposal problem.
Celtic Music @ 84
Or at least one should check before disclosing anything in the paragraph. The astonishing thing is how little any of these people did to be careful. Hence, Valerie’s use of the words “carelessly and recklessly.”
egregious @ 82
There is quite a good German film about them from 1982 - Die weisse Rose/The White Rose
Did I hear right that Leahy promised a vote on a Rove subpoena by Thursday?
That would make some real good C-SPAN, watching that jowly fuck take the oath.
Victoria and Joe provide “opinions” for the far right that remind me of one MD’s glowing tribute to the anal sphincter, in describing their amazing capacity to perceive and adapt their function to specific needs of the system.
I don’t think the Republicans could have made a worse choice than Toensing. She came off as a scold who didn’t have the slightest idea what she was talking about. Even my decidedly non-political wife said that Toensing was either a shill or an idiot, and in either case weakened the Bush administrations argument.
also, Kitty Kelley has a knee-slapper of an opinion article on, “Why aren’t the Bush girls fighting in Iraq?”
a nice compare and contrast piece.
Rayne @ 79
rayne,
this is well said. i cannot absolve, but the understanding has at least made me aware of how far a mob can be taken.
eternal vigilance, indeed.
dmg
tommy yum @ 92
Here you go.