Evening, Pups. So in my previous post, I mentioned that I'd done a little Hard Time in Divinity School. Tonight, I'd like to talk a bit about religions that aren't so well known or popular these days, but some of which are making a comeback.
Forgive me if this is a tad sloppy, this is "niece and nephew" weekend for me, and as they are both under three, they are rather insistent that I continue to play "flying tractor pirates" with them as I attempt to write this post.
Anyway, I love to discuss individual journeys down the path of religious and spiritual belief. It's true: I'm an atheist, but that doesn't mean I hate spirituality or religion. My "faith" is in the human spirit; I don't find this inconsistent with atheism, as I define the human "spirit" as something that science will one day be able to quantify, and once understood, will eventually replace the need for belief in the human-created mythological superbeing-substitute. Simply put, to me what people call "god" today is actually the limitless potential of the human intellect and creative ability.
Also, I believe that the universe is filled with unending wonder, more than enough to inspire a sense of awe and amazement in people and sentient beings, for all time. When I contemplate the range of human ability, and contextualize that within an endless, boundless universe, I don't have any need at all for an ancient myth that informs my understanding of reality. There is so much to learn, to know, to appreciate- why limit myself to those questions that concerned a bunch of ancient tent dwellers without the simplest understanding of science? Science and what it has uncovered itself is awesome, and I grok why some fundies call it a "false religion."
But still, there is much to appreciate when it comes to the mythology with which humanity has long concerned itself. One essential question that has consumed me for no small amount of time: the endless and eternal battle between the male and female elements of the divine.
Academic books and papers on this topic, of which I have read many, are quite boring. It's a shame, but then again that is the Academe. So let me offer you some links via the eminently more accessible world of fiction and substandard "serious" writing. If you're a Great Goddess fan in this age, there are two people you have to thank for your understanding of what that means. Bachofen and Gimbutas.
Both have been discredited in academic circles, for reasons that I more or less accept. But that doesn't mean their work lacks value. The heart of the question: was there ever a time when goddess worship had a different value than it does today, and if so, what does that mean to patriarchal religions of today? Let's back up for a minute and unpack that.
You are probably aware that "history" as we can understand it begins with the invention of writing. With writing, we can come closer to knowing what people of ancient times were thinking, where we can only guess for those periods of time before writing left a record. Writing began in the ancient Middle East, in Mesopotamia/Iraq, to be exact, and although it was later invented independently elsewhere, the "meme" of writing that spread from the cradle of civilization took hold in a way that has affected "history" ever since. The ancients understood, as our corporate masters do today: writing, and control of the written word, is Power.
It's probably not a coincidence that the first writing was about...religion. Gods and mythology were everywhere in ancient writing, even those most early texts we have that are mostly about the accounting of sheep and grain. There is a lot of High Theorizing about this topic, but to me it's pretty clear: the ancients understood that if you were to make something "permanent" by writing it (putting it onto a clay tablet), you had better be sure to give the immortals their due. So, from the earliest times of "civilization," people understood that Someone was looking over their shoulders. And that Someone was a/some being(s) that Were Not to be Pissed Off.
Going before the invention of writing, we have all sorts of indications that people venerated superbeings that can be approximated with both sexes. Paleolithic "Venus" figures abound in the archaeological record, and to the modern eye, they are rather blunt and sexual. They have exaggerated hips and breasts, ubiquity in ancient sites, and there were giant shrines with female effigies. Many people theorize that in some way, the near universal Paleolithic veneration of the female form suggests that pre-literate humans worshipped the feminine ability to give birth. Without a clear understanding of how procreation works, I suppose that's plausible. But I don't buy it, because I think it's a mistake to underestimate the intelligence of the ancient human. Simply, if they could breed cattle or sheep or goats, they "got" how sex and reproduction worked. The people who were making these figures were also husbanding and herding, so I don't think a primitive need to venerate the female mystery is the reason behind these figurines.
Still, it's an interesting question. The ancient world is chock full of more female-friendly mythology than is found in religion today. That, I no longer dispute or doubt. But still, even in today's "feminist" reality, there are many who don't want to look at the archaeological evidence and understand that the ancients had a different way of viewing gender and divinity. This is important to me, because as an atheist, there is little difference between basing policy upon an all-powerful Father god and an all-powerful Mother lifegiver goddess- neither should have any role in public governance. But it's "ridiculous" to talk about the latter, where today, ~90% of the American population subscribes to one or another form of the former.
Here are some fun books that I recommend, which will expand your mind about these concepts.
Wraeththu. Evolution towards a third gender, inspired by a Goddess who gives birth to her lover/son/self and recreates that process in the evolution of humanity.
The Firebrand. What if Cassandra wasn't really crazy? What if she was the pivotal figure between Old Goddesses and New Gods? What if we completely misread the ancient world, and the coming of the Greeks in it?
What is the dystopian conclusion of patriarchy? It could be like this. At the same time: how do women who are denied everything that could give them agency and independence find those things in themselves, in the face of horrible oppression? This book will change the way you think about the Fundies, I promise.
And finally, what would a matriarchal religion look like if the Goddess were a harsh, realistic and highly cynical figure so distant from human reality as to offer little more than the comfort of death? What kind of society would that create? Can science and religion ever become one, and seek to change humanity for the better by a process as brutal as is found in raw nature? Very few people, IMHO, grok the power of this book. But there is still a chance some will.
I have gobs to say about matriarchy and religion, but I'd like to hear your thoughts. It's Friday night, and the Goddess has put Her hand on Her daughter, Valerie, who lays poised to slay the ogre of Republican/Authoritarian government and oligarchy. Goddess worshippers should rejoice, right alongside us atheists. As a side note: is it just me, or does it seem like the people who "blow the whistle" on the Rove Republicans are frequently women? Perhaps I'm wrong, and the Divine hand of the Goddess moves within us all still...
Update: I went to school with the author of this review of a grammar book, and if you're looking for a true ancient Mystery, read this and begin to find out about "Emesal."
Damn, girl. I am so proud of you. Good job.
Update Update: I will get to this later. Come join the fun.
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Thank you.
Political Cartoon Idea:
Boris and Natasha are sitting at home.
Valerie Plame is standing out front, with one hand raised to the door.
Boris says to Natasha: “Victoria, I think there might be a kNOCk at the door.”
Fitz!
Valerie!!
JUSTICE!!!
Hi Chi!
Excellent post, CD.
Valerie indeed! Never underestimate the power of a woman.
Jane, Christy and Valerie.
Goddesses all.
And don’t forget Marcy!
Pectopah @2, good one - send it to Toles!
I wonder how TRex is doing on his date tonight.
CD, you done dropped me off in the Marianas Trench of cognitive thought tonight…Too deep.
;>)
So I’ll play a video instead, and stand in the corner with my pointed cap at a jaunty angle.
Great writing, there
Oops, Marcy too.
But what about TRex and Pach? Can they be goddesses if they want?
Interesting post ChiDyke. It’s too bad that I am on my last legs and off to bed. ;o(
One quibble I have to make about it though, is that the first writing was not about religion but bookkeeping.
I’ve been reading an interesting book by Robert Logan called The Sixth Language which has gone through the history of information processing basically from the first written language, written numerals, etc to the Internet.
Oh gah, I have to stop I am too tired.
Well said ChiDy - that’s where I’m usually coming from, too. “Atheist” Carl Sagan suggested as much in his Cosmos series back in the 80’s (ahh… where have those good old PBS days gone? Ancient history, I guess, having absconded with David Brooks and the schnooks at CPB, it seems).
This is why I want to throw my arms up in exasperation when I hear wingers like O’Reilly say (actual O’Reilly quote from a couple years back): “I don’t believe in the Big Bang” - as if a) it were a matter of faith and not evidence, and b) such “belief” threatened any appreciation for the awe and mystery–or even potential sacrality–of the universe.
It’s related to what Phoenix Woman was alluding to when she referenced “meta-competence” in comments on the last thread.
Nice post, ChiDy.
And, I’d like to know just who started this Babylonian custom? Women can be such schmucks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishtar
“Ishtar’s sacred harlots belonged to an organized hierarchy, painstakingly recorded by the Babylonians. In addition to the activities of the sacred temple whores, there were sacramental sexual initiations as well. The Greek historian Herodotus (3 BC) tells us: ‘Babylonian custom compels every woman of the land once in her life to sit in the temple of love and have intercourse with some stranger…the men pass and make their choice. It matters not what will be the sum of money; the woman will never refuse, for that were a sin, the money by this act made sacred. After their intercourse she has made herself holy in the sight of the goddess and goes away to her home; and thereafter there is no bribe however great that will get her. So then the women that are tall and fair are soon free to depart, but the uncomely have long to wait because they cannot fulfill the law; for some of them remain for three years or four. There is a custom like this in some parts of Cyprus.”
I only got to listen to Ms. Plame’s testimony while at work but it was very impressive. My cubefarm neighbors were wondering why I was saying “Wow” so often. I’d certainly vote for her if she ever decided to seek elective office.
As an aside, I think one side-effect of the Bush presidency is that the term “presidential” doesn’t mean what it once did.
I think religion would be better served with godesses than with gods, just as the country is better served by godess Pelosi than god Bush.
Kucinich! Very powerful from today–this video features Dennis Kucinich asking Valerie Plame about links to the White House.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0K-pSNw_O4
Kucinich: Did you know what happened to Secretary O’Neil . . . was falsely accused . . . investigated . . .
In another instance . . . Gen. Shinsecki . . . dismissed
The case of Richard Foster . . . told he would be fired if he told the truth . . . about drug benefits
These . . . seem to be part of a larger pattern . . .
brownanserve @ 16
She is moving to NM, so maybe she can run for Domenici’s seat! Or Heather Wilson’s (Wilson vs Wilson)
alison- all my love to you! for this:
But what about TRex and Pach? Can they be goddesses if they want?
there’s another way of asking that question:
can an all powerful, all knowing god, play a “real” game with its own creation? think about that for a minute. if the answer is “no,” why is there creation at all?
bionic, sleep well. still:
One quibble I have to make about it though, is that the first writing was not about religion but bookkeeping.
i’ve read the earliest writing. literally, in the originial languages. translated them. you are not wrong: they are “bookkeeping.” (which is one of the very few words in english which has double letters three times in a row [oo-kk-ee])
but the point i’m making is: why then, if these records were all about # sheep and # goats, did each being with dingir? for those who don’t know, that means, “god, i recognize you, i know you’re reading this text, i honor you. now i pray this count of sheep is accurate, and that you strike down those who falisfy my count?”
that, my friend, is the question. also: why did that question get addressed to a god or goddess, and not vice versa? does having a penis/womb mean you can count better?
I grew up in a home of different faiths and with aquaintances of many different faiths and varying degrees of their beliefs. My parents taught us of the different faiths (still do) and to never, ever exclude any of them from our thought.
All faiths struck me a long time ago as similar in many ways. The holidays are in synch– almost all of them. There is not much difference at all and so many are linked to the harvests and the planting, etc. Yet, many would like there to be a bright line between their faiths, as in a major superiority dance and being the chosen.
I much prefer not to dabble in the communal aspect of religion and that venue of “fellowship” that some find so reinforcing. I like to instead have it live inside me– however I choose to “believe”.
Finally, people often use their faiths in wicked, warring ways.
It’s not the religions; it’s the folks who twist and contort and seek the language that divides all of us, of all faiths/spiritualities.
(PS– loved Kucinich today, mm.
He’s a good man– his “faith” is in the department of Peace; how cool is that?)
Darkblack! That was an excellent video!
I am interested in both poetry and ‘cultural anthropology’ and was intrigued by Robert Grave’s ‘The White Goddess’ and currently I am reading (along with poetry by James Tate and Sam Shepard’s account of traveling with Dylan’s ‘Rolling Thunder Revue’ in the 70s) The Great Cosmic Mother: Rediscovering the Religion of the Earth by Monica Sjoo & Barbara Mor. So I look forward to tomorrow morning’s cup of coffee and your post above.
“Ishtar’s sacred harlots belonged to an organized hierarchy, painstakingly recorded by the Babylonians. In addition to the activities of the sacred temple whores, there were sacramental sexual initiations as well. The Greek historian Herodotus (3 BC) tells us:
folks, i’m here to tell you. herodotus = bunk.
the short version: he was a…well, to put it kindly, an “armchair anthopologist.” the kind of guy who heard second and from second hand of kingdoms ancient and foreign, and who came to the table with his own prejudices. not that any of us are free of that, but think “bernard lewis.”
herodotus was the Original Western Imperialist White Guy making fun of Those Funny Brown People Who worship a different god. his whole point was to make greek men, who knew most of what they understood had been developed and critiqued elsewhere by non-greeks, feel important.
bottom line: like a bush republican, herodotus just made shit up. of whole cloth.
there is a long, complicated explaination of the “hieroldules” of babylon. i won’t get into it now, it’s too late. but think of it this way: if all you knew of sex workers today came from dobson, passed down to you thru six languages and three religions over two thousand years, would you trust it? prolly not.
so take good ole H with a grain of salt. *I* speak sumerian (the ritual language of babylon) better than he did. nuff said.
Hey, Chicago Dyke,
You never know when this subject - early matriarchal societies - will come up. The dearth of spiritual books by women changed in the 19th century. My favorite spiritual book, the Kybalion, is speculated to have been written by three women at the beginning of the 20th century:
Other names frequently mentioned in connection with The Kybalion are Harriet Case (Paul Foster Case’s wife at the time), Ann Davies (who succeeded Paul Foster Case as head of B.O.T.A.), Mabel Collins (a prominant Theosophical writer), and Claude Brogdon (a well-known stage magician).
Whether or not written by women, the descriptions of what God might be and how we might act upon that are purely trans-sexual.
Speaking of sexual roles, was it males or females who put an end to development of the zigguret culture at firedoglake?
Even the mundane nature of totalling domestic stock in a pasture needs soul
;>)
ET, it was the live blog of the Waxman hearing. The quote button will be back I have been assured.
Off topic, but, just wanted to mention I wrote something up about the 60 Minutes segment on Daniel Tammet (who has Asperger’s Syndrome with savant abilities) and my own memories of coming to understand our son’s Asperger’s.
Let’s see. Female whistleblowers.
Bunnatine Greenhouse
Sibel Edmonds
Karen Kwiatkowski
…
I would postulate, as did Heidegger, that the concept of “history” begins in some degree with the spoken word. As such, it would seem reasonable that his concept of hermeneutics was first employed to bring the divine to the campfire as the poetry and thought expressed by shamen in religious observance. Then, no doubt, they got around to creating symbolism and written word to fill up the rest of the Golden Bough volumes; but I tend to think that gods first came to humans through the original shaman rap. That’s right, I said it. The concept of god came from cavemen doin’ the dozens around the fire.
Try this:
God is what happens. Divinity is what people do in response.
the kuchinich/plame video: glorious
The concept of god came from cavemen doin’ the dozens around the fire.
Or was it the concept of goddess?
If I missed it, I apologize. The frieze you are using I have always seen as this as the male god Mithras, popular with lower-ranking Roman soldiers.
http://agonist.org/don/2007031.....tal_damage
There goes my ergot poisoning theory…Drat!
;>)
btw in 2001 I stood in St.Peter’s Square watching the tourist/pilgrims straggle through; you know, nuns from the Phillipines, the faithful from Peoria, etc.etc..etc…
and boy did it strike me that that place was cold and dead. Like the int. hq of a cola company or some such.
but the kicker? we missed the Sistine Chapel by an hour!!!
Having assisted my wife through two doctor-less pregnancies and home-births, and then the infant years, I’m convinced that if there is a “higher power,” it’s female. The emotional strength I’ve seen from her is mind-boggling, and even though I consider myself very strong and disciplined emotionally, I’m a baby compared to her.
Our male-dominated society teaches us boys to be tough and manly (whatever the hell that means!), and this often leads very condescending opinions towards women in adulthood. This is a very sad and disturbing aspect of American society for me.
Instead of men making jokes about a woman President, with her finger on the nuclear button during “that time” of the month, being a dangerous thing, we should be celebrating the female spirit.
I’ve always thought women would be the best Presidents, Generals, etc. Most women, with or without children, can see pictures of blood-stained babies in foreign lands from American bombs, or hungry children here in America, and think this has to stop. At the same time, there is no more fierce protector than a mother protecting her child, hence making a woman the ultimate leader of the Dept of DEFENSE.
Hope this makes sense, since the aforementioned kids have got me totally sleep-deprived, but thanks for the excellent post!
Chicago Dyke,
I announced earlier that I was going to post the comments I had culled from FreeRepublic’s freeper live log of Friday’s Waxman hearing before today was over. I’m putting some up in memory of this important day. The hearing saw some vindication of the truth for Valerie Plame and government workers who were intimidated by the actions against Plame.
Today’s the 4th anniversary of Rachel Corrie’s death. I think she sought justice too, but like thousands of young people from whatever background in the Middle East, she was denied justice.
Freeper comment gallery, part 1:
There is a huge difference in the Dems treatment of Valerie Plame and of Terri Schiavo — both from Huntingdon Valley, PA, both born 1963, both married to liars who gave false testimony.
I love this Congressman from Georgia, Lynn Westmoreland
He is giving the good ol’ boy easy drawl impression while asking really sharp questions!!
Did Plame actually take the oath, or was it a promise to tell the truth to Waxman. Role it back and watch, compare it to the normal oath — It’s hilarious.
Victoria Toensing will clear that up in her testimony. She wrote the law.
You know what time she’ll be up?
Maybe B. O’Reilly will get the body language gal on this. Would take up the whole hour!
In his opening comments, Tom Davis said he was very reluctant to participate in this farce (paraphrased).
The really bad thing is that at this hearing she can pretty much say whatever the hell she wants to say because, since the Libby trial, the White House is too scared to fire back with the truth.
Sucks.
These people should be ashamed of themselves..the questions were obviously scripted, and given her in advance…
.the questions were obviously scripted, and given her in advance…
and rehearsed. I noticed a while ago, before I had to mute this for my mental health, that one congressman got confused and VPW had to coach him on his question: “Do you mean…” and he parroted her words as he “clarified” his question.
She’s not that dopey or unattractive. She is however a total left wing democrat who intends to have a position in Hilary’s administration. And I swear to you IF I were on that committee I’d say it to her. But they won’t.
WHERE THE HELL ARE THE GOP REPRESENTATIVES!!!!!
Why are the Rats asking all the questions?
The Reps are boycotting the hearing. That is why it is mostly Dems are asking most of the questions.
Here is Micrososmos, my favorite ’spiritual’ book (it does at least bring in the biological concept of Gaia hypothesis) and I had alway assumed that the author, Lynn Margulis, was female. But watching Lynn Westmoreland today makes me wonder. I hope she is female because Westmoreland is questionably human.
I’d love to get RevDeb in on this… very late back east, though…
Great topic, piece CD!
in honour of Rachel Corrie…
I’ll amend it to the concept of ‘divine.’ It’s easier to rhyme!
Hey ChiDy!
I don’t even know what in the fuck you are talking about.
But any friend of FDL and TRex is a friend of mine!
Then, no doubt, they got around to creating symbolism and written word to fill up the rest of the Golden Bough volumes;
frazier: another hack.
i don’t mean to be all elitist on folks, especially since my own akkadian and assyrian are weak these days from lack of use, but i get pissy about the “armchair” generation.
let me put it in a modern form. once, not so long ago, “great” tracts were written about “primitive” peoples, still living (and dying) in the face of Modernist Imperial oppression. those “Primitive” peoples didn’t venerate a monotheistic god, they didn’t “wear clothesl,” they were “inscrutable.” why were they described that way?
plainly: because a bunch of rich, old, white guys at oxford and in germany etc., decided they were “not civilized.” those same rich, mostly old, mostly white guys wrote a bunch of books, and everyone knows them now. frazier, etc, never bothered to learn even 10% of the languages of the peoples upon which he presumed to “explain” to all us “civilized” people. “look, this is what their primitive belief really means” he said. and for decades, smart people have just accepted that he must’ve been right- it’s not like people are going to take the time to figure out the remaining ancient and non-Western languages and traditions themselves. no, let’s let some white guy with tenure at some fancy school speak for them, and we’ll “trust him.”
same dif today: who here speaks any one of the dozens of languages of afghanistan? no one? right, didn’t think so. but somehow, people here feel qualified to speak about “why the war is/is not going well” and of why the taliban is or is not popular, depending on your political orientation. i could drop a scary list of all the “smart” people who presume to explain to you the strange and odd ways of the darkies neoliberalism seeks to control, and you’d be shocked to learn how few of them have, like, actually been to those places or speak their native tongues or have read, in the original, their sacred texts.
as a former philologist, i condemn my own field. for i know just how much imperialism informs it, and racism.
(waving to balrog) how’s the skiing?
Friday Night Alternative Belief –
Bases of Tantra Sadhana
BUY THIS BOOK —
If you like it, buy more — and give them away . . .
during the vietnam war a general (american, white) informed us that the ‘orientals’ (or did he say ‘asians?’) did not feel or experience grief as deeply as ‘we’ do.
so i guess its okay to bomb and burn the living bejesus out of them
“The future is female.” And it will be a better world.
oops. i should have said ‘a general (white, american, male) said _____________
Hi Suzanne!
Well I’ll be honest. I had a great time, but threw out my back lifting miniature Balrogs onto chairlifts.
That is a common problem for Balrogs.
That, and being fascist trolls.
Thanks for inquiring!
Obivously, we’re talking generalities here, since….well, you know…there’s Hillary.
I just basically have come to hate religion. Look what the Islamic radicals have come to. Look at the American religious right. (Seen particularly clearly in “Borat”.) Look at the Terri Shaivo nonsense. How about the freakin’ revivalist-can’t remember his name-gay prostitute/crack example of religious fraud. It’s all well below what an ordinarily educated person should accept.
I do have good friends who find comfort in their religion, but I just don’t get it.
Heya ChiDy, some fascinating stuff going on here. Of all things it made me think of (you non-TV watchers are going to have to trust me on this) the GEICO commercials with the caveman. There’s one in the series where the Main Caveman is being interviewed in a typical cable format on a 3-way splitscreen, interviewer and Snide Opponent and him. Snide Opponent (blonde woman) says “Well, you folks just arent’ too smart, are you?” or words to that effect.
Caveman musters his dignity and calmly says “Yeah, we just discovered fire, created agriculture, domesticated animals and created all the building blocks of civilization. Real bunch of dummies we must be.”
SO comes back with some crushing snide comment and she and Interviewer laugh as Caveman rolls his eyes until he falls backwards nearly off his chair. End.
Beginnings of things fascinate me, I suppose because we never know when we’re doing them what the result will be: success, failure, changing the course of human existence or forgotten before the end of the week. The people who made those “Venus” figures may just have been admiring/attempting to control/trying to fucking figure out women, real ones, girls next door as it were, with no thought whatever at the time of mysticism or imaginary invisible Big Females In The Sky or any such thing. Those interpretations came very very very much later by people who tried to fit them into a concept of Early Religion which, as you note, we have no documentation for whatever.
And Herotodus can bite my shiny metal ass, as it were. I consider him the Tom Friedman of his era, prone to believing, or at least writing down, any load of hooey he picked up from the local oxcart drivers which he could then recount to the credulous citizenry back home in exchange for credit at the local taverna. Pfooey on his accounts of “temple harlots”, a term which in and of itself suggests to me he was trying to fit a custom he didn’t understand into terms he, or at least his audience, was familiar with.
/rant.
Enjoyed this greatly. Be sure to keep us back home appraised of your schedule over here. Or crosspost…a shame to let writing of such quality languish on a little-read site like this one. :)
(snark! Snark, really. I swear. Never type with a cat draped over one arm and under the other, while drinking cheap box wine. Leads to overstatement and misunderstandingations.)
Angie Says!!
Who is Kno…. who knows…???
bonkers @ 52….well, um, yes….point taken…
Balrog,
Are you lurking? New baby? I know you’re busy, but I’m wondering!
LS– I am spooked by that man in that suit!
He’s a real nowhere man,
sitting in his nowhere land.
This is bugging me no end.
Is he a NOC– deep undercover and classified?
Or did they find him in Gold’s Gym?
LS: Knodell —> no tell.
where is punaise when we need him??
All the better to instruct them in the counterrevolutionary spirit…The basic building block, nepotism, followed by a rising sense of entitlement as they ascend the powdery slopes in a paid-for ride.
;>)
seems like it’s male ideology/religion/patriarchal power that has gotten us into our environmental/nuclear/warmongering/injustice mess/
christianity/judaism/islam: where’s the love people where’s the love? oh sorry. you have to burn out your neighbour? oh okay I’ll come back later.
ET–Re: Freepers.
It’s always amusing to read their remarks–in isolation, of course–it’s simply too much to immerse one’s self in what’s going on over there.
It’s also interesting that the comments aren’t that much different in tone than here. There’s always a certain amount of that sort of cheerleading that occurs.
What’s interesting are the remarks about Toensing. They were impressed with how she talked back to Waxman, reiterating what Toensing said–it was her law and she knows it.
But, the record and the law itself shows that she doesn’t know it completely, that she was describing one clause of the definition of covert agent when there are actually two, conjoined by “or,” and that can be easily checked by them as anyone. From that, one can only assume that what was most important to them was that she talked back sharply to Waxman with some appearance of truth. That it wasn’t the truth–and was in reality a distortion of the law to obscure the truth–isn’t part of the equation.
And, therein lies the major difference between their world and ours.
ET,
I don’t know Rachel Corrie. I wasn’t around at the time she was known here. Who was she? I respect you enough to want to know.
CD,
as a former philologist, i condemn my own field. for i know just how much imperialism informs it, and racism.
What’s your take on (Friedrich) Max Muller? I read some of his sacred text translations when I was a lot younger. I’ve never read one of his original philology books, though
yeah yeah and those same pissants today have moved over to other metaphysical pursuits under the guise of science and are pulling the same crap, call themselves astrophysicists and astronomers. and those bastards are not even bothering to go to the horsehead nebula, but they write tomes about it. pricks!
Terry– go here:
http://www.rachelcorrie.org/
and here
http://www.democracynow.org/ar.....22/1435259
and then you may realize how distorted her beauty became by power.
by NY and Nicola.
Let’s see. Female whistleblowers.
Bunnatine Greenhouse
Sibel Edmonds
Karen Kwiatkowski
Add Teresa Chambers to that list. Her situation may not seem as “big a deal” as the others (she was chief of the US Park Police, first woman to hold the post after a sterling career in police work) who was just shitcanned for having the temerity to tell a WaPo reporter that her troopers were being fucked over by the Interior Department.
She’s still fighting to get her job back, or at least her name cleared. I think when the time comes to investigate, fumigate and straighten out the cesspool that is Interior (Jack Abramoff’s base of operations, keep in mind–and the footdraggers in the case of the hundreds of billions of $ in Indian trust funds that mysteriously can’t be accounted for, much less paid), anyway, I think she’d be a good person to help with the straightening out of things.
Terry Olson:
Thanks for asking; Mother’s Day is the date.
That said, it’s tough for a Dirty Hippie to surrender his freedom. On the other hand, it’s the 4th kid, so what am I whining about?
Cheers!
“folks, i’m here to tell you. herodotus = bunk”
Agreed. Thucydites is far superior.
“frying tractor pilates?”
I’ve recently found comfort in a lovely cathedral here, because it’s empty except for older ladies praying. The sight and smell of the candles is very touching. The sound of the prayers and beads is comforting. I join in, and there is peace.
“frying tractor pilates?”
Guaranteed to give you gas….
Terry,
Rachel Corrie was a student at Evergreen College in Washington state. Her senior year’s practicum was to go to Rafah in the Gaza Strip, to form a sister city relationship between Rafah, the second largest city in Gaza, and Olympia, WA. While there, she began to volunteer for the International Solidarity Movement, walking kids to school past rough checkpoints, preventing ongoing ancient well demolitions, and protect houses from bulldozing. She was killed four years ago, failing to perform the last of those tasks.
At the end of the 2003 school year, her parents received her degree for her at Evergreen. A play about her is being presented in Seattle, beginning this weekend.
Here is a video on Rachel Corrie–
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fa_WFZyN2l8
and here is her interview–
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....mp;search=
This is a drive by before bed. It will such a treat to read this with coffee and a fresh brain in the am. Thanks for posting this chicago dyke. It’s a great topic. I’m a huge fan of mythology, folklore, etc.
To me, my spirituality is connected to intuition, which is a feminine energy. I think the pre-historic tribes knew this. They didn’t have any definitive source of knowledge to get them by. Nor did they have organized religions that imposed an order or structure on them for control.
They got the influence of the moon, they knew it was a feminine energy, most likely from the correlation with menstrual cycles, and the power to create life by giving birth I’m sure inspired awe.
They tuned into their senses, and followed the lead that it provided them.
john swifty- please expand. i’m not speaking of the metaphysical, when i critique the armchair quarterbacks. the physical sciences of the universe are something i respect. that includes the babylonians, as well as the modern post-einsteinians. and sagans. i’m tired and worn out from babyblogging. your point is?
Why you Godless heathen! (joking)
I had no idea you were so deep, CD. Personally, I am deeply conflicted by religion and seek to find my answers internally. The study of religion often coincides with the struggle for power, much as we are seeing between the Shia and Sunni split that occured after the death of their prophet. One side felt the church elders should lead, while the others felt it should be the progeny of the prophet.
So we fight.
Unfortunately I have become so cynical towards agendas, I do not trust any source whatsoever for the answers to spirituality. Therefore, these matters, for me, must be resoved internally and organized religion currently is failing miserably in winning this person as a convert.
DarkBlack:
Excellent advice. However, they appear to need no convincing. They love it.
All day lessons seem to be the answer!
Renee in Ohio,
I’m back and forth with the computer today but I did follow your links. Two people independently said to me this week that they thought my husband was mild aspbergers. Sort of startled me (not that I hadn’t thought it myself). He is the uber engineer type. When we walked the Queen Charlotte Track last week, one of the days we ended up walking with three other men, all engineer types, who happily chattered together while I sweetly trailed behind, able to have my own world, only occasionally interupted by drifting words like “nitrates” “percolation fields” etc engineering etc.
We used to joke that we should tattoo people’s social security numbers on their foreheads as when we would drive up to houses, he would say, “now who are these people and how do we know them?” “This is my sister’s house and your nephew is John and your nieces are Sally and Jessie.”
But he can call and ask me to look on page 43 of a 300 page document and go to item 532.14 and check whether he was remembering a number accurately. He is always accurate about numbers.
Another female whistle blower - Marla Ruzicka. She was attempting to create a useful data base of Iraqi civilian casualties, when she was killed April 16, 2005, in Baghdad.
“frying tractor pilates?”
i spent about six hours today with Black Ken and Weebles of the Medieval period battling the stuffed flying eagle muppet. speaking the language of the less-than-three year olds.
Black Ken in the plastic chinese made dumptruck fighting with the fluffy eagle puppet, aided by unfalling weebles of foreign manufacture: it’s a special language, this i know now.
To the manor born.
;>)
That’s great, though.
How do you manage it on a ‘fascist troll’s’ salary, presupposing you are one, of course?
:)
g’nite.
bless Rachel Corrie and all those suffering and working towards health and peace and safety.
hoping to hear all good things from the march tomorrow and from Ramsey Clark– will be participating in our little vigil for 3 nights starting tomorrow.
Point is all thought starts somewhere. Aristotle had some really shitty ideas about optics; but it gave Newton something to chew on. I don’t throw out Aristotle’s contribution because he screwed some stuff up; I just consider the source and the time frame and move on.
Edward Teller @ 73: Rachel Corrie was trying to prevent ancient well demolitions?
So the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians what Saddam did to the Kurds: Cement up their springs.
i spent about six hours today with Black Ken and Weebles of the Medieval period battling the stuffed flying eagle muppet. speaking the language of the less-than-three year olds.
Black Ken in the plastic chinese made dumptruck fighting with the fluffy eagle puppet, aided by unfalling weebles of foreign manufacture: it’s a special language, this i know now.
Try working in the best representatives for male idoltry in there somewhere.
Beavis and Butthead.
I had no idea you were so deep, CD.
if you would understand this post: we are all “so deep.” but thanks.
Personally, I am deeply conflicted by religion and seek to find my answers internally. The study of religion often coincides with the struggle for power, much as we are seeing between the Shia and Sunni split that occured after the death of their prophet. One side felt the church elders should lead, while the others felt it should be the progeny of the prophet.
religion *is* the language of power. understand that, and you understand half “the problem.” we here on the freethinking intertubes are the minority. ask yourself why that is, and why that has been totally true for thousands of years, and you begin to understand why an atheist like me views religion to be The Enemy. on the order, indeed, beyond and greater than, Rove, Bush or any of the puppets who lead the unthinking ranks that oppress us today.
“the rich succeed because they convince (with relgion) one half of the poor to kill the other half of the poor, for them.”
I can understand how access to water makes people unreasonable.
the Goddess has put Her hand on Her daughter, Valerie, who lays poised to slay the ogre of Republican/Authoritarian government and oligarchy.
DEADEYE DICK: “I am Cheney the WitchLord King, and no man can defeat me!”
PRINCESS VALERIE THE SHIELDMAIDEN: “I am no man!”
THWACK!!
(with apologies to JRRT, Peter Jackson, Fran Walsh, Philippa Boyens, and Miranda Otto.)
Twit now, prick before.
-
*falls out of her chair laughing*
So the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians what Saddam did to the Kurds: Cement up their springs.
And what the US has done to the Afghans.
Cost is a huge issue for skiing.
I was able to justify skiing when I was in college at Boulder by eliminating needless expenses. Like tuition.
Somehow I just can’t deny my kids the rush of gravity freaking. It is a blast.
Point is all thought starts somewhere. Aristotle had some really shitty ideas about optics; but it gave Newton something to chew on. I don’t throw out Aristotle’s contribution because he screwed some stuff up; I just consider the source and the time frame and move on.
that’s a ‘hole nuther post, my friend. that chained in a cave crap, along with what the A-man did to merge the twin evils of western imperialism with (you’ll all hate me now) the ideology of the Slave, gack. how i hate it.
and newton: three words for you. “died a virgin.” ahem.
Actually, it was Plato that had the whole chained in a cave meme. He would have luuuved Sir Issac!
Sorry, C-D, religion is the bane of human existence.
That’s my story and I’m stickin’ to it. I can think for myself. I don’t need a book or a deity or some guy in a black dress with a collar to tell me how to be moral or how to think.
Wow. Overtime work on “covert”:
http://corner.nationalreview.c.....NkOTgyYzE=
Go with what you know, I guess.
So the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians what Saddam did to the Kurds: Cement up their springs.
Yes. The IDF has been using water as a weapon for virtually all the time they’ve occupied the territories.
Every time the Palestinians lose flow from a well and try to dig it deeper, the IDF or the police chase them off or simply drop a bomb on it. There was one in the extreme south of Gaza, near the border, that border guards simply shot at every municipal crew that tried to get near it.
In the West Bank, the water is simply diverted to the illegal settlements and/or turned off except for a few days a month in the summer. It’s a growing business in the Palestinian areas to deal in black-market municipal plumbing items, because if someone can locate a water main, they’ll find a collar and flange somewhere, dig up the pipe at night and weld the flange on, add a valve and get a little water for a while. Then the police discover it, turn off the water and tear up the pipe.
It’s a very catch-as-catch-can existence there these days.
montaq @ 98: i thought I was reasonably informed but didn’t know how water was being denied.
Khoda hafez, y’all! (see ya)