
Don't cha just love how the conservative "moral clarity" types suddenly become relativists when confronted by wrongdoing in their god-king Bush?
No matter the action, when Bush or his people are caught doing something, from abusing signing statements to firing US Attorneys en masse, the automatic, unthinking, Pavlovian screech from the perpetually whiny children that make up "the right" is: "But Clinton did it toooo! Moooooom!"
Except, of course, that 99.9% of the time Clinton really didn't do it.
Take signing statements, for instance. As with his predecessors, Bill Clinton used the signing statement -- which, compared to Bush, he used very sparingly; only about three and a half-dozen times as opposed to Bush's nearly eight hundred times so far -- as a way to comment on a particular piece of legislation. That's fine and dandy; that's what the things are for. But when George W. Bush moved into the White House, he brought David Addington with him -- and David Addington was the evil jerk who came up with the idea of using signing statements to actually alter the intended effects of the legislation -- and in some cases, to counter them:
According to the Boston Globe, Addington has been the “leading architect” of these signing statements, which have been added to more than seven hundred and fifty laws. He reportedly scrutinizes every bill before President Bush signs it, searching for any language that might impinge on Presidential power. These wars of words are yet another battlefront between Addington and Congress, and some constitutional scholars find them troubling. Few of the signing statements were noticed until one of them was slipped into Bush’s signing of the McCain amendment. The language was legal boilerplate, reserving the right to construe the legislation only as it was consistent with the Constitution. But, considering that Cheney’s office had waged, and lost, a public fight to defeat the McCain amendment democratically—the vote in the Senate was 90–9—the signing statement seemed sneaky and subversive.
Earlier this month, the American Bar Association voted to investigate whether President Bush had exceeded his constitutional authority by reserving the right to ignore portions of laws that he has signed. Richard Epstein, the University of Chicago law professor, said, “What’s frightening to me is that this Administration is always willing to push the conventions to the limits—and beyond. With his signing statements, I think the President just goes too far. If you sign these things with a caveat, do the inferior officers follow the law or the caveat?”
Bruce Fein argues that Addington’s signing statements are “unconstitutional as a strategy,” because the Founding Fathers wanted Presidents to veto legislation openly if they thought the bills were unconstitutional. Bush has not vetoed a single bill since taking office. “It’s part of the balancing process,” Fein said. “It’s about accountability. If you veto something, everyone knows where you stand. But this President wants to do it sotto voce. He wants to give the image that he’s accommodating on torture, and then reserves the right to torture anyway.”
As with signing statements, so it is with the US Attorneys.
For one thing, as any person with a functioning brain knows, yes indeed -- the common practice for new presidents is to replace the previous president's political appointees, which include US Attorneys. They can, of course, let them stay on, but much if not most of the time, they are replaced. This happens even if the previous president was of the same party as the new one; remember the big stink that was made by the conservatives when George Herbert Walker Bush, Dim Son's dad (and who hardcore cons never accepted as one of them), got rid of a bunch of Reagan appointees when he assumed office in 1989?
But what is NOT usual -- what is, in fact, downright frowned upon -- is replacing your own appointees en masse because they refuse to put party before country. That's what we're talking about with the Dauphin here.
Over at DailyKos, regular FDL commenter litigatormom rips into this particular wrinkle of the "But Clinton did it tooooo!" whine with gusto. She points to Kyle Sampson's own words, in the January 9, 2006 e-mail he wrote to Harriet "Fire 'Em All" Miers, in which he says flat-out that Clinton DIDN'T do it:
...once confirmed by the Senate and appointed,U.S. Attorneys serve for four years and then holdover indefinitely (at the pleasure of the President, of course). In recent memory, during the Reagan and Clinton Administrations, Presidents Reagan and Clinton did not seek to remove and replace the U.S. Attorneys they had appointed whose terms had expired, but instead permitted those U.S. Attorneys to serve indefinitely under the holdover provision. (Underscoring in original.)
Why weren't previous Prezzes quick to zap the US Attorneys? Sampson posits these reasons:
There are several likely explanations for this: in some cases Presidents Reagan and Clinton may have been pleased with the work of the U.S. Attorneys, who, after all, they had appointed. In other instances, Presidents Reagan and Clinton may simply have been unwilling to commit the resources necessary to remove the U.S. Attorneys, find suitable replacements (i.e., seek the "advice" of the home-state Senators), complete background investigations, and secure Senate confirmations. (Emphasis added.)
But of course, by the time Sampson wrote his January 9, 2006 e-mail, Senate confirmation was no longer an obstacle. Why?
Because in December of 2005 -- less than a month before Sampson wrote his e-mail -- Arlen Specter did the Bush Junta a big, big favor. He inserted language into the "Patriot" Act -- which was up for renewal at the time -- that allowed the Attorney General to simply hire and fire US Attorneys at will, without needing Senate confirmation.
As Josh Marshall pointed out, it was this newly-acquired ability to hire and fire US Attorneys at will that enabled the purges to be dreamed up in the first place. Without this ability, the purges would not have been possible. Each of the new hires would have had to go through the Senate first -- at which point questions would have come up about why this purge was happening in the first place.
Feel free to pass this bit of knowledge on to the next reporter or newspaper or anyone else that unthinkingly repeats the GOP's "But Clinton did it tooooo!" spin.
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Fitz
Their Clinton-Envy shows no sign of abating.
They even hauled out Newtie to “confess” and “ask for forgivness” the way they want Big Dog to do. Te result? America stifled a yawn.
What is of concern to me is what Democrats like Hillary and the DLC do and say now.
ABC report that Karl Rove was at center of USA firings and Gonzo knew all about it.
Spotlight this to ABC and Charlie Gibson and their new legal “expert” whatever-her-name-is. Clueless conflation courtesy WH spin clearly in evidence on their Nightly News broadcast just minutes ago.
Read this.
You’ll like it and it is good for you too.
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/.....onzales-2/
Oops. Looks like Bush/Coulter Republican Senator Gordon Smith just called for Albo’s head on a pike too.
Hey Alberto, hope you enjoy selling real-estate in Houston, you’ll look nice in a gold jacket.
-GSD
Countdown should be an absolute blast tonight…
Ditto the Daily Show & Colbert.
Conyer’s letter toady to Gonzo:Link
He is pissed after reading Murray Waas’s article.
And they’re saying it was all Harriet Miers’ idea. But then what do I know. I’m just a turnip who’s lost his truck, and wandering aimlessly on tobbacco road…
When I woke up last Monday morning, I knew that this would be a week of richly unfolding political scandal. But I had no idea just how gratifying it would be. It feels so good! On to Friday!
When do we get to use the word totalitarian?
*xyz @ 6
Here’s the headline, for those who need an incentive to click the link:
Schumer: White House Holding ‘Active And Avid Discussion’ Over Gonzales Resignation
*xyz @ 6
Yep. I liked it.
does anyone know if olbermann is supposed to have a *special guest* tonite?
i read it somewhere on this site. nothing about it listed on his msnbc site. i dont want to start any rumors so i will refrain from printing a name, but it’s someone we all have been longing to hear from.
pardon me for going off topic so soon, but i wrote an essay titled “3 reasons to give 3 cheers for blogtopia, and yes we coined that phrase” in which i highlight tangible major results on a national level coming from actions taken by bloggers.
i mention it here because i give real specific kudos and mad props to marcy and the fdl gang for their work on the libby trial.
if i haven’t said it enough here, forgive me: the stuff you guys did on libby was historical in its significance for a sea-change in journalism. good job!
AZ Matt @ 9
I’m amazed my eyebrows are still on my face, that thing was so scorching.
OT Adventures in Reading the New York Times March 15, 2007 Edition In 2 parts
House Panel Backs Iraq Timetable in Spending Bill by Jeff Zeleny and Robin Toner
This is part of the Times’ continuing non-coverage of the Iraq debate in the House and Senate. In fairness, this time around it does point out that the measures being debated in the two chambers are not the same although it does not stress enough the differences between them and the politics that attach to them, i.e. resolution vs appropriations bill.
Some of the reporting is beyond gratuitous. Take this example from the House. The article notes that only one Democrat voted against the supplemental in committee Barbara Lee (D-CA) because she thought it did not go far enough. Shouldn’t the focus be on the majority who voted for it? Apparently not. Zeleny and Toner go off the rails into unnecessary personal attack on the lone dissenting Democrat.
The Almanac is put together by the conservative Michael Barone and Richard E. Cohen (the one from National Journal, not the faux liberal one). First, having stated that the supplemental did not go far enough was itself an adequate indication of Lee’s political leanings. Second, there is no far left in American politics and certainly not in the Congress (now as for a far right, there is one, but I digress). Third, this kind of citation is in keeping with the “fringe” characterization of the anti-war position held by 60-70% of the American people.
Zeleny and Toner are far from finished however. They bring up the supposedly key Republican objection.
You see this is about principle. It always is when it’s a question of Republicans. Except there is this one small thing . . .
When the Republicans were in control and Harold Rogers was the chairman of the subcommittee which controlled spending for the Department of Homeland Security, ole Harold was known as the Prince of Pork. Folks down in Corbin loved him cuz he always brought them goodies.
http://www.mindfully.org/Refor.....4may06.htm
So let’s see Zeleny and Toner are willing to belabor the record of the sole Democrat voting with the minority, but ignore the blatant (and hysterically funny) hypocrisy of the leader of that minority. They repeat the White House pledge to veto the bill if passed, ignoring once again that this is a must pass bill and fail to explore the issue of Republicans voting against “funding for the troops.”
skippy @ 16
And Josh Marshall has been like a dog with a bone on the DoJ scandals.
As for the debate in the Senate (the Reid Resolution was defeated by the way 48-50 with Democrats Pryor and Nelson and Independent Lieberman voting against and Smith the only Republican voting for), Zeleny and Toner have this to say about it.
They fail to point out that the only reason the Republicans didn’t filibuster was because they knew that this was a vote they were going to win. Call me cynical but I am not sure that Smith would have voted for the Reid Resolution if his had been the determining vote. Taking a page from the Fox News, our intrepid reporters do present a fair and balanced view of the debate by citing the White House position, those of 4 Republicans, and that of one Democrat.
I especially liked them citing John McCain who didn’t even show up for the vote because he was off campaigning:
Got that? John McCain partisan? Heavens! Who would think that? That’s probably why he’s running for President –to be non-partisan. Still it’s a nice piece of spin to exculpate the 4 years of Republican disaster in Iraq with an airy “Political parties don’t lose wars.” The irony of McCain’s statement passes right over the heads of Zeleny and Toner, but as with so much else in their reporting this does not surprise me in the least. After all, these are the same guys who completely missed Mitch McConnell’s gamesmanship.
Yeah, right.
hey firedogs,
I am waaay behind on the threads -
Kyle Sampson’s lawyer (Brad Berenson) has broached the subject of immunity for his client
does everyone know Berenson himself was an atty in WH Counsel Office - or is that news from 3 threads back ???
and is this news to y’all ??
h/t Josh
I almost forgot the link to the story above of Zeleney and Toner
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03.....d=2&hp
So using the same twisted thought process that blames Clinton for everything under the sun, save for whatever KSM confessed to doing. It’s really Bush 41’s fault that Clinton lied because Bush 41 lied to the country first when he said “read my lips” then proceeded to raise taxes anyway.
Sweet:
http://www.gregpalast.com/
*xyz @
6
Better than vitamins!
I have to ask…how the HELL did we get to this point?
I SO wish I had the skillset that would be welcome in Australia or New Zealand, so I could leave this fucking right-wing shithole.
It doesn’t MATTER that 70 percent of the American people want out of Iraq, the SAUDIS and AIPAC (strange bedfellows eh?) want us to stay SO WE STAY!
It doesn’t matter what crimes Bushco and all their wastes of skin commit, they will get away with it. Libby will never serve time, Bush will pardon the minute court is adjourned after his sentencing, and NO ONE will DO anything about it.
Why? because Bushco OWNS IT ALL.
I believe only violence will effect any sort of change in the US, and unlike the ’60s, everyone is too afraid to do it. Even *I* am, and I disgust myself.
We get the government we deserve, so I guess we deserve to be shat on continuously, from the cradle to the grave.
I was channel switching but my impression was that both ABC and NBC played up the list of crimes that KSM confessed to with only glancing reference to the fact that a lot of it was made up.
cbl @
21
Abandon Chimp!
Looks like Mr. Sampson doesn’t want to become the next Irve Libby. Perhaps he’s leaking some of these memos.
Keep that guy away from windows and don’t let Putin give him any tea.
-GSD
skippy @ 16
Skippy, Did you see where I explained Emptywheels handle?
Check out the email address:
http://www.gregpalast.com/wp-c.....caging.png
regardless if rove goes down or not, the system is broken beyond repair. that includes the wonderful possibilities of Waxman and Conyers’ investigations. what isn’t broken, and is only just beginning to find its power, is the blogosphere.
i am ashamed that the dems can’t find their way home, as OK Kiddo often interjects. i recognize that lhp thinks it’s going to take a constant drip of evidence and hard work. Nice to hear, but the system is broken, and the real question is if it’s broken beyond repair.
An underlying vision of what we are trying to achieve, when we say I Want My Country Back, I Want The Horror to Stop, is perhaps the only unifying concept which provides enough strength to the necessary changes. When enough of the amurkan people begin to embrace an underlying vision of where we want to find ourselves in the near future, only then can the system be repaired.
i’m not holding my breath, but i also won’t stop trying to clarify that vision. What Fitz did will indeed go down in history, but we really need a new Gandhi. And she ain’t called “hill.”
Alberto Gonzales’ “Mistakes Were Made” is #1 on the:
“Top 10 GOP Sound Bites List.”
I think we have a themesong for this Rovegate.
Let the Eagle Soar, baby.
-GSD
I said earlier today that the Republicans are countering their getting caught stacking US attorney offices with partisan gunslingers with the meme that it was appropriate but poorly handled from a PR point of view. It’s the Cheney approach. Sure, it’s a lie but if you repeat enough times a lot of people are going to believe it.
Guitar_Playing_Bastard @
26
Settle down. Bush will be impeached and lose his power to pardon. There are too many people on his rear now.
candygram for KKKarl !, candygram for KKKarl !
Latest talking point now about “Clinton did it too” regarding US Attorney firings is the claim Clinton fired a US attorney who was heading up the Whitewater investigation.
Olbermann was scheduled to appear with Plame at a PFAW sponsored event on Sat in NYC, I bought tickets for me and the hubby immediately, but the event was canceled a few days later. I was happy to hear, though, it was because folks in Congress wanted to chat with her :-)
Will KO give us an exclusive tonight?
It seems that Clinton did fire a couple of US attorneys, but hardly for political gain.
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/
Hugh @
27
News Hour lead with the story and did not mention a hint of doubt or torture at all.
karl’s solution: surge & purge
ABC World News Tonight just repeated the Clinton falsehood tonight.
Is it possible that the USA’s were fired preemptively in order to have some effect on the 2008 election - say if they are anticipating a 2000 redux….get their own cooperating people in now?
anyone -
where in the hell is this guy ?
Looks like Mr. Sampson doesn’t want to become the next Irve Libby. Perhaps he’s leaking some of these memos.
Keep that guy away from windows and don’t let Putin give him any tea.
and whatever you do, don’t let him get a haircut
looseheadprop @ 227
Helluva bunch of kick-ass smart women here.
Jane, Christy, you can relax today, you trained yur pups up well, they are good hunters.
Quick, the Whitehouse, The Dear Leader and his trusted Rasputin Rove are under attack. Man the barricades, call Zell Miller and tell him to bring the spitballs…this is war. Stack the bodies of unknown subordinates high enough to stop some bullets.
-GSD
I notice a glaring lack of WATB Lieberman telling us how cool Abu is.
F*cker.
skippy @
16
Skippy, if you’re looking for a pardon, you came to the wrong place. You’ll be wanting 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue in DC, but I hear there’s a big line forming up there, so you’d better hurry.
;)
lestatdelc @ 37
Whitewater? Right then, sounds like we need a Special Prosecutor on this one…
omg Hotflash, your comment reminded me that just last week - lhp alluded to three different issues within DOJ that had all kinds of USA’s & former USA’s stirred up - bwaaahaaaahaaaa! gonna see if I can find it -
fyi - David Gregory (Hardball) has on fired USA’s McKay(WA) and Cummmings (AR) and they are doing their lawyerly best to lay this out - and clearly have taken well justified professional umbrage with the “performance issues” meme . love thinking that there’s no way the usual suspects can come out and slime these “decent Republicans” - sweeeet!
The Ides of March
lhp former USA’s going back through several administrations have been burning up the phone lines and are gonna start kicking ass and taking names
Oh that just makes me all tingly.
Yay Rayne, and yay for all of you behind the scenes, you know who you are.
JUSTICE!
Let’s get lots of people to join in. Everybody in favor of the rule of law can play.
kemo @ 50
I’m gonna need some Special Prosecco pretty soon.
hey egregious -
do you recall (probably during a hearing live blog last week )- lhp alluding to lots of resentment at DOJ/USA’s over 3 separate issues - and you in fact, guessed one ? so many threads, so little time - would love, love, love to find that -
Nearing the end of a 2-week vaca in South America. It~~s been great being able to keep up with FDL as we went from Chile to Argentina to Iguazu Falls to Brazil. I even managed to sit in on the FDL Gabbly from Santiago Chile during the Libby Verdict Party! And things are going SO much better for Truth and Justice since then… I cannot WAIT to get back and be able to track things more closely.
I also read Marcy~s book twice and just admire and love it SO much.
Has FDL been nominated for a Pulitzer Prize yet, I wonder… :)
(((JANE)))
hah hah hah. . . here comes the D.C. kiss of disgrace:
“You’re doing a heckuva job Gonzi!”
we are a thread to their existence.
stem cell research was vetoed
And while we’re at it, let’s retire the “we were concerned about a lack of voting fraud prosecutions” talking point:
Tim Griffin, who was made USAttorney in Arkansas after Bud Cummins was fired, and who had previously been Rove’s head of opposition research, was up to his eyeballs in voter suppression in Florida in 2004:
punaise @ 58
I do knot have a problem with that.
punaise @ 58
Oh what a tangled web we weave, when they practice to deceive!
@ 1025pm tonite on cspan1:
Patrick Leahy and
also looks as though the Waxman hearing will be ca. 3 hrs long. :O
http://inside.c-spanarchives.o.....hedule.csp
Not quite right. The no-Senate provision was introduced in late 2005. But the original “fire ‘em all” plan was in January, 2005, while we were still under the *old* Patriot Act, which didn’t include that replacement provision.
The limited purge that was done in Dec 2006 was most probably enabled by the new provision, but the proposal to replace them all wasn’t.
nothing but net.
Okay, I kinda hate to ask this question, but …
When Karl was talking about firing all the U.S. Attorney’s - what was the status of the Plame investigation? Was he told yet that the GJ would not be indicting him or was it before?
punaise @ 55
Try a fine Italian varietal, like Bonamici…
Gotta give some kudos to Hugo Chavez for nailing it by calling Bush a “political cadaver”. I can smell the funk from NH.
-GSD
Maybe Harriet is giving the e-mails to ABC? It’s all just too delicious.
Hey, never mind. Answered my own question. Early 2005 was before Cooper testified to the GJ.
Interesting no that Rove was talking about getting rid of Patrick Fitzgerald?
allan_in_upstate @
60
That will become an intergral part of the broader narrative indeed.
-GSD
presser w/ chuck schumer zeroing in on getting rove to testify about the firings emails is like watching a dog w/ a bone - his eyes can’t contain his glee!
I LOVE MY SENATOR!!!!
I’m listening to a nitwit on MSNBC saying Rove’s involvement in selecting which attorneys to fire is not inappropriate, “nothing wrong with it” - David Gregory gives him a pass.
kemo @ 68
grazie, buon amico
“Two wrongs don’t make a right,” Mama said.
Prairie Sunshine @
5
Absolutely!! Here they are: they’ve gotten the “scoop,” and Charlie Gibson is falling all over himself “apologizing.” I guess this is their idea of “fair and balanced.”
from last night:
Mahablog, via digby:
RagingGurrl @ 73
Give me Tweety any day.
cbl @ 21
Immunity for Sampson from what? This is getting GOOD!
Regarding the firing of all USAs as a method for getting rid of the Plame investigation, it was my understanding that the way James Comey delegated authority to Fitzgerald, even if Fitzgerald were stripped of his position as USA, he would still be Special Prosecutor.
That’s how I remember it, anyhow.
Hoping someone will chime in who remembers this as well.
(So I don’t have to go digging deep in my browser files…) :-)
WOW!
MAJOR PROPS FROM DIGBY!!!!
Save Some Time Henry
by digby
I don’t know if looseheadprop and Marcy Wheeler and CHS have the time, but if they do, Henry Waxman should hire them as consultants on the Plame hearings. There is no substitute for their deep understanding of the evidence or the law on this case.
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/
Here in AZ, where we DO NOT have daylight savings time (we have ALL the sunlight we can stand here in the desert, thank you very much), one of the benefits of everyone else “leaping ahead” in spring is that NOW Keith comes on my teevee an hour earlier!
Yay!
Don’t have to wait ’til 6 p.m. Keith now comes on at 5 p.m.
RagingGurrl @
73
I saw that. I thought Gregory had more smarts than that. I wanted to kick him!!
Bustednuckles @ 81
Yes yes yes!!!
This is what I was advocating for back when word first came down that Henry would be holding this hearing.
It’s just smart!
RagingGurrl @
73
Tony Blankley, editor of The Washington Times. Consider the source; I’m sure David does. Although, this week Gregory’s been giving out passes like Bush1 pardons.
Mrs. K8 @
80
Mrs. K8, I think you are correct. Comey made Fitzgerald darn near bullet proof. He must have seen how sleazy things were way back then.
-GSD
P.S. I thought Fitz’ response to Congress regarding testifying was more proof of how much of a stand up, non-political man he is.
Mrs. K8 @ 80
it wouldn’t have affected his Special Counsel status but he would be out of his “day job”
Dec 2005, hmmm What was Roves official position at that time? Had he been stripped of his title due to the Plame matter yet?
If Iowa is any indicator of the loyalty factor these “Bushies”, the “other” US-A’s who did NOT get fired, then we may already have a laundry list of harrassment and prejudiced prosecutions right out there for the general public to peruse..
Someone may have said this already, but I seriously wonder whether the voter fraud attacks by these “Loyalists” against Democrats isn’t an obscene machivellian smoke-screen to defer scrutiny away from their own electoral mis-deeds.
Is there any investigation of Rove’s complicity in the New Hampshire massacre of ‘04?
Seems these loyalists need a lesson in democracy, I would hope they are actually honorable Americans before they are Bush loyalists, then they have no moral choice but to turn on their handlers for their constant transgressions of our Constitution.
Yeah, right, like that’s ever gonna happen…
If they were men and women of honor, they would not just kowtow to Bush’s and Rove’s commands.
Check this out:
http://haussamen.blogspot.com/.....ed-to.html
TeddySanFran @ 85
Gregory’s ass is sore from trips to the woodshed over grilling Tony Snowhole. he’s gota make nice.
-GSD
Fairfax,
I am so not one of the site’s legal lights - but believe it is a crime to provide false information to Congress and it looks like Mr. Sampson did just that - someone will correct me if I’m wrong . . .
Thanks, GSD and moi! I really wasn’t in the mood to go rifling around my (sadly disorganized) files of newspaper articles. The article I was thinking of was WaPo, though.
This raises the question — why am I keeping articles if my filing system (ha!) is such that I don’t wanna go look for them?
:-(
Eureka Springs, AR @ 88
Wasn’t that when he was moonlighting as Hurricane Tsar?
Mauimom @ 83
Yeah, me too! Bitch. These guys are ALL getting on my nerves. 3 minutes to KO…I’ll calm down then…
Jay Carney refers to Rover, AbuG & Harriet as “this web of Texans.”
Countdown is only moments away…GO KEITH
RagingGurrrl has been getting away with THAT WORD all day!!
Keith speaks of “the sillhouette of Turdblossom” in the background.
bwahahahaha!!!
Rove used the Clinton did it too. He said Clinton also fired all 93 USA.s Which is correct. But not at the beginning of his second term. Only at the start of his FIRST term.
RagingGurrl @
95
There’s always March Madness, you’ll have six months of baseball (zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz) to listen to KO!
TeddySanFran @ 85
Blankley was Newt Gingrich’s press director. Nuff said?
Keith has new eyeglasses.
I liked the old ones better. Oh well.
Doesn’t make me love Keith any less, though. Guess he went to the optometrist over his vacation week.
the best part, Congress will now be crawling all over DOJ - you know, NSA, torture, rendition, NSL excesses, packing the Civil Rights Div, ad friggin’ nauseum kinda like the firing of these folks was a “third rate burglary” :)
Can’t remember what it was like to watch the news before being able to do the running commentary on