
Yesterday afternoon, The Kid started sniffling, and by evening it had grown into a steady nasal drip. Last night, we finished off the last of the bottle of his cherry-flavored medicine, and so this morning we opened a new bottle. "What flavor is it, Daddy?" he asked. "Grape," I told him, to which he replied, "But what kind of grape?"
When you live next to a winery, that's the kind of questions your kid will ask you. At least he didn't swirl the medicine in the cup, take a sniff and a sip, slosh it around in his mouth, and spit it out. Still, he's got a wine vocabulary that I did not have until much later.
More proof, I suppose, that everything is local.
Which brings me to Pat Tillman. He's local news out here, because of the family's Bay Area roots. Today's SF Chronicle carries this news on page A-8:
The Pentagon has completed an 18-month investigation into the friendly fire death of former pro football star Pat Tillman in Afghanistan and has scheduled an unusual series of simultaneous briefings later this month to reveal the findings.
The long-awaited report will be released March 26, the Defense Department said Tuesday, with congressional and media briefings in Washington at the same time as the Tillman family receives the report in San Jose.
[snip]
Release of the Pentagon report is scheduled just days after an expected House vote on Iraq war funding. Findings of a cover-up in the Tillman case could further embarrass an already embattled Bush administration.
Could further embarrass? I'd say it's a sure thing myself. We're talking about avoiding embarrassment by covering up a report on a coverup to avoid embarrassment. Yeah, that'll work.
Jane waxed eloquent on Tillman a year ago, raising a bunch of questions (reformatted here) that perhaps -- perhaps -- will get answered on the 26th:
The crassness of this just goes beyond my ability to express anger. . . . Of course there needs to be a thorough investigation into Pat Tillman’s death. We owe that to his family, and if gross negligence was involved, those responsible need to be held to account. That goes without saying. But those responsible for spinning out the lies to a grieving family — lies that they also fed to the public and the press in a close campaign season — need some exploration as well.
- Who gave the orders to silence the Rangers on the ground?
- Who gave the orders to burn Tillman’s gear?
- Who gave the orders to falsify information contained on Tillman’s Silver Star citation — because it now appears that some of the information in the chain of events does not match up with later stories?
- Who fed Tori Clark the information she spewed from the press podium at the DoD?
- Who fed it to Donald Rumsfeld?
- Did Rumsfeld order this to be propgandized — or did that come from the President’s campaign staff, including from Karl Rove?
- Who gave the orders to start all of this ass covering — up the line to the President of the United States?
- And who made the decision for the President to use Pat Tillman as a campaign prop in Arizona — when the taped message the President gave was a lie?
- And did the President know at the time that his lovely public words about a fallen American hero were nothing but lies — and gave the taped message anyway?
- If not, has anyone been held to account for feeding the President false information that he publicly stated about the Tillman matter — and if so, who has been held to account and by what means?
This feels just like the manufactured story they used for Jessica Lynch, a story which she lived to correct, much to her credit. But Pat Tillman is not here to speak for himself today — he was killed in the line of duty, in our nation’s uniform, and then had his government lie outright to his family — repeatedly through four separate botched investigations into his death.
Everything is local -- even governmental coverups aimed at spinning the media.
And the timing? The military "has completed" the report, but it won't be delivered until the 26th? Maybe Nancy Pelosi ought to delay that vote on Iraq war funding until AFTER the Tillman family gets the report. If they could wait for years to get their report, the DOD can wait another couple of days to get their money.
Login Here
Share This
Spotlight
First!
You really think the Pentagon or WH are going to tell the truth on this one?
Here is the link to send Looseheadprop’s advice to Waxman’s office.
*here*
Thank you.
{{{{Pat Tillman - Rachel Corrie}}}}
Peterr!
And the other dead keep coming home silently, in the middle of the night, unseen, unacknowledged, unheralded, wept for by family, swept under the rug like so many other “mistakes that were made.”
On Monday, March 26, the country’s sportsminded citizens will have just been pickled in four straight days of Sweet 16 college basketball. The DoD could not have chosen a moment of greater distraction among people who know Pat Tillman’s faux story.
Man, they’re going to have to kill the #2 guy in Al Qaeda AGAIN in order to distract the media from this one. Are there enough Hollywood starlets who can die enough tragic, scandal-riddled deaths to smokescreen the criminal incompetence of the Bush Administration?
You can add Who stole Tillman’s journal?
looseheadprop @ 5
It’s the busy season in DC, don’t you think? Glad to see the help you gave folks on the last thread.
Pat Tillman’s death is the BIG turning point for AZ on support for the war. Tillman was a BIG hero and well thought of here. My college kids knew his friends from ASU and the Cardinals.
We have a memorial, an annual memorial event and even the wingers here really questioned BushCo when it comes to his death and the lack of facts.
Then you add the young woman who committed suicide because she would not participate in their interrogation techniques.
http://www.azdailysun.com/arti.....ews_30.txt
CNN - Senate votes 96-2 to approve resolution to support the troops.
On the Clock @ 7
Unless, of course, Arizona State University comes up in conversation, and some sports announcer happens to mention that it is Tillman’s alma mater. Then any attempt to hide it will have backfired. Big Time. (ahem)
These cover up people are all going to be rolling the same rock up and down the same burning hill in Hell FOREVER.
bingo
can you say highlight?
Still, he’s got a wine vocabulary that I did not have until much later.
why does your child support the terroir-ists?
epu’d but great news from the previous thread:
Yup, Pach and I are working on crashing the gates tomorrow. Still working on it, we shall see.
That and I’m meeting lots of nice interesting people.
Breaking news from ABC News:
NEWLY DISCLOSED E-MAILS SHOW THAT THE IDEA OF FIRING ALL 93 U.S. ATTORNEYS WAS RAISED BY WHITE HOUSE ADVISER KARL ROVE IN JAN. 200
Why, exactly, was there a cover-up? Friendly fire is not unheard of.
Is it possible that Mr Tillman was killed not by accident? Is it possible that his troops (or whoever) pulled a frazzing that went bad?
Would someone fill this in for me?
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 18
you’re such a tease
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 18
here’s the story
Oh please, oh please, oh please…
Nick Anderson cartoon on Halliburton/Cheney:
http://www.uclick.com/client/wpc/wpnan/
It’s krunch time Karl.
mweeheeheehee
bwahahaha
(jest in time to slime/hurt folks for the election, eh? January 2005)
le cochon.
“Further embarrassment?” It’s a scandal a day for the Bush regime. I hope the Tillman family soon gets the truth, which is the minimum they deserve after their son/husband/brother made the ultimate sacrifice for his country.
More details from ABC News:
E-Mails Show Rove Role in U.S. Attorney Firings
Fairfax @ 19
Most likely is that it was friendly fire, but in the early days of a less-than-popular war, the last thing the DOD/White House spin team wanted to deal with was a former NFL player turned ranger Poster Boy for the military getting killed by accident.
Much better for PR to have Tillman known as a dead hero than a dead mistake.
Elliott @ 20
I am? *g*
Why, exactly, was there a cover-up? Friendly fire is not unheard of.
Is it possible that Mr Tillman was killed not by accident? Is it possible that his troops (or whoever) pulled a frazzing that went bad?
Would someone fill this in for me?Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 18
this is no big deal. Staff turn-over at the beginning of an administration is standard practice.
“The e-mails directly contradict White House assertions that the notion originated with recently departed White House counsel Harriet Miers and was her idea alone.”
Oh, dear.
“standard practice” = never happened before?
Fairfax @ 19
Start here with Jane’s original post
Jane on Tillman
angie @ 24
We need to clone Congressman Waxman about fifty times to oversee all the investigations warranted by the Bush administration.
I’m thinking that a lot of DC media folks are going to be working overtime this weekend, what with Waxman’s hearings, the US attorneys mess, and everything else.
punaise @ 16
Because he loves playing in the dirt.
Elliott @ 32
thanks, E. I read Jane’s post, but it didn’t clear-up why a friendly fire was anathema as a cause for his death. I think Peterr may have cleared it up for me. I was thinking that there were more sinister reasons for not wanting to admit to friendly fire.
Why NOT cover it up? They create their own reality for everything.
Peterr @ 35
OK, enough Gallo’s humor.
Fairfax @ 29
It IS a big deal. This did not happen at the beginning of the Bush Mis-Administration but in the middle. For the most part, these USAs were appointed by Bush. Do you have any idea how many cases this would have disrupted?
And oh joy, Rove stuck in his thumb, but he didn’t pull out a plum THIS time…
It’s local to anyone who recognizes a true American patriot in stark contrast to the liars and thieves who started the war. Pat’s brother, Kevin, made a slightly more than local ripple on the blogosphere last year too: Remembering Pat
Fairfax @ 19
fragging
Brisingamen @ 39
I mes-read the initial post. I thought it said that Karl-baby suggested this in 2001. My bad.
Karl Rove is a - you know what! (feel free to fill-in the blank)
Fairfax @ 19
Ummm. I think you mean fragging, maybe?
Tillman was a fairly junior NCO, which would make him an unlikely target of fragging. Fragging is generally reserved for field-grade officers who spend the lives of their troops like a drunken sailor on shore leave.
It was friendly fire, which happens in combat. But for Bush’s Gang That Can’t Shoot Straight, an authentic NFL Hero was more useful than a guy who was in the wrong place at the wrong time and took several from his comrades-in-arms.
BC
Peterr@13 - ASU will not come up in any March Madness discussion unfortunately. Pathetic does not begin to describe our basketball program, although hopefully new coach Herb Sendek will turn it around. Also thanks for the Tillman post. I met him a few times at a restaurant in Tempe we both used to frequent. A really incredible, intelligent and thoughtful guy. He would have been absolutely killing the Bush Administration if he were alive today.
NEWLY DISCLOSED E-MAILS SHOW THAT THE IDEA OF FIRING ALL 93 U.S. ATTORNEYS WAS RAISED BY WHITE HOUSE ADVISER KARL ROVE IN JAN. 2005
http://abcnews.go.com?CMP=EMC-1396
To paraphrase Fitzgerald, to this administration, there are no people, only things to be pushed around to insure political power remains with them.
Valerie Plame Wilson is a person, and her outing ruined her professional life and endangered many other people with whom she worked.
Pat Tillman was a real person, and the coverup of his death has made life hell for his parents, family, and friends for lo these many years.
They are people, not things.
They are made of flesh and blood, not ink on a page.
raven @ 41
right. fragging. fragging gone bad.
frazzing is what Karl-baby does after a supper of quail wings, sausage, and beans.
Pat Tillman’s parents have stated they think it was covered up to protect recruiting efforts and to use the “he died heroically” angle instead of “he got blown up by his own men” to distract from the at-the-time recently broken Abu Ghraib story.
Bargain Countertenor @ 43
Field grade officers and dumb-ass butter bar LT’s with a compass!
Sorry Peterr, to OT on your thread
BUT but but
Could it be MORE EMAILS NOT ARCHIVED IN THE USUAL WAY?
Where is my fainting couch?
Peterr @ 46
Peterr, you must be a very very good pastor. I wish you were my pastor
In the Senate
SJ Res 9 The Reid resolution on withdrawal from Iraq by March 31, 2008 leaving only troops for training, border security, and anti-al Qaeda was defeated 48-50.
Republicans voting for:
Smith (R-OR)
Democrats voting against:
Nelson (D-NE)
Pryor (D-AR)
Independent Democrats from Connecticut voting against:
Lieberman (ID-CT)
Not voting:
Johnson (D-SD) recovering
McCain (R-AZ) campaigning
“Pat Tillman was a real person, and the coverup of his death has made life hell for his parents, family, and friends for lo these many years.”
As Fitz would say, Pat Tillman is NOT an argument.
looseheadprop @ 50
On this one, no apologies are necessary.
And the same thing was going through my head: hmmm . . . wonder what other emails might be lying around?
What was it Fitz said? Something like “unless something new comes up. . .”
looseheadprop @ 50
AHA. Traitorgate might have just taken on a whole new dimension…
mc @ 53
Pat Tillman is the tip of the iceberg, no more or less important than any of these people be they a son, daughter, mother, father, Iraqi or American.
This may be getting ahead of the story, but if this report shows that the DOD and/or White House was playing games with Tillman’s death, the sh*tstorm from every military family who lost a loved one in the last 6 years is going to be something to behold.
If you thought Cindy Sheehan was something, just wait.
This is going to sound harsh, but the Pat Tillman story is just one in a long line of friendly fire incidents perpetrated by US troops on its own and on its allies.
The Sun, a conservative (yes really) tabloid in the UK, has been at the forefront of investigating a particularly egregious incident where US National Guard pilots shot up a British Army convoy. This story marked the real turning of conservative parts of Britain against the war and the Bush administration.
See for example this article.
Another article in the Guardian quoted a British soldier on the subject of US troops:
This story was probably not widely published in the US media.
Republicans and Democrats alike in the US fall over themselves to “support the troops” as they understand it. (Yellow ribbons or actual body armour respectively.)
But neither side will face the harsh truth that US troops are not just ill-equipped in terms of body armour and so on, but ill-trained and thus ill-disciplined for the purpose they are being deployed for. It is a flaw in the US’s basic imperial military culture. Sending National Guard and reservists for actual combat duty is nuts. Sending regular army personnel with the training and the culture that the US military perpetuates is not much better.
As a foreigner, it’s not for me to tell Americans how best to support their troops. But it seems to me a bit of honesty about these ostensibly brave and noble souls and the culture instilled in them would actually be supportive.
Moderator(s) -
If it’s possible, please edit my comments in which I mentioned breaking news from ABC: 2005 should appear where you see January 200. (No, Rove and those e-mails don’t go all the way back to the reign of Septimius Severus.) *g*
Fairfax @
19
Pat Tillman’s wikipedia article hits the high spots.
downunder girl @ 58
All the training in the world won’t prevent this stuff.
In more ways than just a few, every American killed in this war has been both misrepresented and fragged.
They’ve been misrepresented by the government and the media as “heroes,” yet their deaths are not about bringing “Democracy to the Middle East,” or about heroics. They are about protecting our assets there - oil, corrupt Arab regimes and Israel’s far-right regime.
They’ve been fragged by the neo-cons and Defense Department incompetents who see no purpose in equipping, training or backing up a military they deem to be of a lesser class in our society than they themselves represent.
Pat Tillman, whether or not he was fragged by his unit to keep him from publicly becoming a poster boy for a growing resentment in the ranks about the conduct of the war, WAS fragged by the perpetrators of this awful series of events.
Peterr @ 35
Because he had chocolate on his nose I gave him a flinty look.
OTOH
In the Senate
The other meaningless drivel S.Res 107 A resolution expressing the sense of the Senate that no action should be taken to undermine the safety of the Armed Forces of the United States or impact their ability to complete their assigned or future missions passed 96-2.
Voting against:
Corker (R-TN)
Hatch (R-UT)
Not voting:
Johnson (D-SD) recovering
McCain (R-AZ) campaigning
We need some great patriot to come forward and leak this stalled report ASAP
Raven,
I acknowlege that friendly fire incidents will happen. But read the stories. This was egregious. Part-time soldiers should not be put in these situations to begin with.
You do not see UK troops in Iraq creating friendly fire incidents at the same rate (proportionately) as US troops.
The same was true in the first Gulf War. The imperial US military culture is flawed, part of the same dysfunction as militaristic GOP mentalities.
DUG
downunder girl @ 66
FYI, in my opinion there were no better trained troops than the RAR in Vietnam:
Dr Bob Hall (Platoon Commander 12 Pl D Coy 8 RAR, Second in Command A Coy 8 RAR, author of Combat Battalion: The Eighth Battalion in Vietnam) is conducting research for the Defence Science and Technology Organisation (DSTO) into how and why friendly fire incidents occur in infantry combat operations, and would like to hear about friendly fire incidents that did not result in casualties. The aim of the study is to try and reduce the number of such incidents in the future.
We all know that for every incident that resulted in one or more casualties and was therefore reported and investigated, there were a number of incidents that were “near misses”, and therefore there is no file. If you were a witness to, or a participant in a “near miss” friendly fire incident, would you please complete the questionnaire below to the best of your recollection.
HotFlash @ 63
and when he scrapes his knee in December, Peterr applies, oh, tannin balm.
Nancy Pelosi will not delay the funding vote. She has converted in secret to the Republicrat party.
Friendly fire accidents happen.
Training accidents happen.
Covering them up, on the other hand, takes work.
A coverup takes sustained effort, by a number of people that grows exponentially with the fame/notoriety of the victim.
Tomorrow is the 4th anniversary of the death of Rachel Corrie in the Gaza Strip. The myths about her death are every bit as false or misleading as most information about Pat Tillman. This evening the Seattle Repertory Theater begins a run (with a weekend of preview performances) of the play “My Name is Rachel Corrie,” based on Corrie’s journals.
Had Tillman’s journals not disappeared immediately after his death, we might also be going to a play “My Name is Pat Tillman.”
Myths about Rachel Corrie are debunked here.
. looseheadprop @
51
Psychopaths never consider the rest of us as human beings..just tools to manipulate, and throw away like garbage.
punaise @ 68
You’re crushing me here.
downunder girl @ 66
In addition, as you know, Pat was not “part time” nor was he in Iraq. He was in a well trained ranger outfit that fucked up.
off topic but important for discussion concerning the attorney firings, this from the excellant site memeorandum;
so when the conversation goes to “they weren’t doing their job prosecuting voter fraud” the answer was, “yes, they were”
no defensiveness either, attack in response, always, “of course they were, do not forget there were NO reprimands for failure to perform, none”
Peterr @ 73
I’ll put a cork in it.
Peterr @ 70
Yes, it is the lie, the cover-up that is the real evil. As with BJGate. And possibly one instance more recently.
Fairfax @
19
They always cover up on friendly fire. It may or may not make you feel better to know they cover when Brits are killed as well. This week, the coroner (judge in charge)of the inquest (English enquiry into a non-natural death) on Corporal Matty Hull, complained bitterly that the US was refusing to release either the rules of engagement which applied or the findings of the investigation into why two National Guard pilots of A10s shot up a clearly marked British armoured convoy.
Peterr @ 73
Ding! and zig.
Dear raven,
Like I said, as a foreigner it’s not my place to push this too far. It’s a matter for Americans to resolve.
But I fail to see the relevance of a study to reduce friendly fire following the Vietnam war, to the current situation. RAR may have been the best troops then, but that doesn’t mean that Vietnam-era troops are better-trained then present-day RAR troops, or even present-day regular British troops. The UK military has learned a few things since then.
So there were some friendly fire incidents in Vietnam. They had inquiries on how to reduce the incidence of friendly fire, and adapted their training accordingly. So the best got better.
Contrast this with the refusal of US military top brass and civilian leadership to even admit that friendly fire is a problem.
Please understand that I mean this with great respect for this site and its regular commenters.
perris @ 75
oopps, I meant the side show, not memorandum
Chetnolian @ 78
I guess my suspicions come because this WAS a well-trained Ranger force. Rangers are those troops that are sharp-shooting, stealth-killing, grub-eating, belly-crawling, testosterone-oozing soldiers. They don’t make mistakes that stupid. Do they?
Speaking for myself only, I have four people whom I consider to be giants in my lifetime for fighting for peace in the Middle East. Only one remains alive, and that would be President Carter. The other three, Yitzhak Rabin, Rachel Corrie and Anwar Al-Sadat, are gone.
raven said:
Yes I know. But it should have been clear from my posts that I am referring to the incident where UK troops were shot up by pilots who were not regular troops, they were reservists. According to the Sun article, the pilots in question had never been in action before. Clearly their pre-action training was insufficient.
I implore you to read the articles I linked to.
Peterr @ 27
That excuse only works for the first investigation. What’s the excuse on the last 2?
Sorry again Peterr, but Lotus sent this to me and it’s jsut too good not to share
The e-mails also show Attorney General Alberto Gonzales discussed the idea of firing the attorneys en masse while he was still White House counsel — weeks before he was confirmed as attorney general.
The e-mails directly contradict White House assertions that the notion originated with recently departed White House counsel Harriet Miers and was her idea alone.
Two independent sources in a position to know have described the contents of the e-mail exchange, which could be released as early as Friday. They put Rove at the epicenter of the imbroglio and raise questions about Gonzales’ explanations of the matter.
Hee hee
Whoever is on Mod duty my comment in moderation is NOT the entire article. It is a fai use except and includes the author’s name
looseheadprop @ 86
Hee hee
MSNBC broke into Hardballs with Schumer talking about this. With any luck and due diligence, Karl is going down,
I want my party to cut off funding for Iraq. I want my party to prevent Bush from attacking Iran or starting any other unprovoked wars. And I want a fair and just settlement to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. And I want these things soon.
I’m curious as to whether any other media outlets picked up on this story, as the SF Chronicle did. As far as I can tell, they and the San Jose Mercury News are the only places that have this story.
Yet.
Anyone seen it elsewhere?
LHP -
Got any more magnums laid down, ready to open?
I do not want members of my family, in the Army ,serving in Iraq, to die for the egos of Bush or Hillary.
FINALLY, we may GET Karl Fucking Rove!
I want him to go down so hard his ancestors feel it.
RevDeb @ 88
add to that this from the side show to help the story along and suffer their pitiful talking points;
perris, linky?
Peterr @ 91
I think it may be time to go to the wine store my friends
Joe may get to see his frogmarch dream come true yet!
See yah later pups have to go to a parent teacher conference
so is this really curtains for Rove? he’s always managed to squeak through one way or another…
SO looking forward to St. Henry’s hearing tomorrow. CSpan1 is planning on televising it. selise, Kathryn and I will be on the threads having fun with it. Scarecrow will join us when he can. FUN time!
looseheadprop @ 96
grape minds think alike
perris @ 75