FITZ!

Marcy!

FITZ

EW!!!

2!

Well no more number beginnings for me!

Richmond, it’s the new math.

Can you believe Fl used the word “shivved” to describe what “Dr. Rice” did to Tenet (Tenais?)

FITZ!
FITZ!
FITZ!
FITZ!

It is beyond wonderful that you’re doing this. It’s freezing outside here [and most everywhere else] and keeping up with the trial on FDL is about the only thing going. I’m trying not to update too frequently [at least we get credit for trying]. Your live blog is fascinating but it also reminds me why I decided against Law School - what tedium!

Thanx again…

Crazy Horse @ 7: I’m not sure whether those were Ari’s words, or Marcy’s editorializing. It would be quite extraordinary if Ari himself used those words!

Has anyone compared our (Marcy’s) comments with Mediabloggers. It would be interesting — much later to do. They are saying Fleisher is “composed and articulate” and speaking with “ease.” Maybe, but what it sounded (read) like to me was someone rather disjuncted and nervous. I’m biased, but I bet Marcy’s is closer.

Here is the link: http://www.mediabloggers.org/scooter-libby-trial

Crazy Horse @ 7

Can you believe Fl used the word “shivved” to describe what “Dr. Rice” did to Tenet (Tenais?)

And then called him and explained that the press would be calling?

I can just imagine how the non political appointees who work for the government must feel with this crowd in place.

Live Blogging Road Rules (as posted earlier in live blog threads - thanks Peterr!):

Given the expected traffic here during the Libby trial, a few reminders to the regulars and words of welcome to newcomers might be in order. FDL’s comments are moderated, mostly to eliminate the mass spam that flies around the Internet. All comments run first through an automated spam filter, and if caught, are then checked by human moderators, because in addition to spam, the filters also catch regular comments from time to time.

To make newcomers feel a bit more at ease, here’s some info that will keep your comments from landing in moderation or otherwise clog things up and make life difficult for the mods:

1. Size matters. Long posts get automatically put in moderation and require the mods to set them free. If you want to use a post from elsewhere, don’t cut and paste the whole thing; just give us a link and post a snippet. It saves space here, and gives the original author the traffic they deserve on their site.

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3. Links matter. If you put a comment in with more than two or three links, it will end up in moderation. If you absolutely, positively have to have multiple links, you probably want to split it into multiple comments.

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Finally, and most importantly: Do not feed the trolls. It just encourages them, and makes life difficult for the mods.

If your comments do end up in moderation, don’t panic. The mods will see them, and free them up in short order. Comments that get held up in moderation, however, do NOT appear if you simply hit “Refresh Comments.” They come up when the entire page is reloaded using F5 or your browser’s “reload” function. Every so often, it’s worth reloading the page to see what might have been missed.

Welcome to the ‘Lake! The water’s warm, so jump right in.

AF3? Who flies in that? Oh, the bipartisan biplane with Holy Joe/McCain.

FOR THOSE JOINING LIVE BLOG IN PROCESS:

P = Prosecution (Member of Team Fitzgerald)

Fl = Ari Fleischer

J = Jeffress (attorney for defense)

Richmond @ 11

Has anyone compared our (Marcy’s) comments with Mediabloggers. It would be interesting — much later to do. They are saying Fleisher is “composed and articulate” and speaking with “ease.” Maybe, but what it sounded (read) like to me was someone rather disjuncted and nervous. I’m biased, but I bet Marcy’s is closer.

Here is the link: http://www.mediabloggers.org/scooter-libby-trial

Are they right wingers? Fl doesn’t sound so poised to me, either.

Sorry, EPU’d.. really interested in a clarification on this:

I recall I said to these reporters, If you want to know who sent Amb Wilson to Niger, it was his wife, she works there. Tamara Lippert Newsweek, David Gregory and John Dickerson, Time Magazine.

So THIS is where the whole “Plame sent Wilson” originated.

Can someone please help me clarify something (and I think this is a very important point that doesn’t seem to be highlighted)?

My understanding is this:

1 - VP’s office sends a request to the CIA to look more closely into the matter.

2 - The meeting at the CIA discussing the issue, which Plame was not present at, it was mentioned that Plame’s Husband, Wilson might be a good candidate to go

3 - CIA asks, informally, of Plame if her husband would be willing to go. Plame passes on the request to Wilson.

Thus we see how:
1. Wilson would say Cheney sent him.
2. VP’s office would deny sending “him.”
3. Why Ari would say that “His wife sent him.”

This has always driven me nutz.

At the end of the Fleisher testimony, can we have a round up on whether or not we think Fitzgerald got his money’s worth by granting immunity? So far it seems helpful but not earthshattering.

Cranky

One last thought on Nuclear Football. Richland High School, adjacent to the Hanford Works in Washington state, the reactor complex responsible for the majority of plutonium production for the US, calls their athletic teams the “Bombers.” The HS’s home page has a big mushroom cloud:

http://www.richlandbombers.org/

I have a couple of Richland Bombers baseball caps, which I don’t wear very often. You can buy Richland Bombers baseball caps at the athletic supply sporting goods store in downtown Richland.

Can’t help but wonder how Rove and Cheney view the Ari testimony today. Differently? The same?

Condi shivved and shilled. “No one ever imagined… “ You know she was lying when she said that. So if they imagined, why lie about it?

Further to Rayne’s posting of Peterr’s rules o’the road…

Don’t feed the trolls,
but please feed the kitty.

Every $$$.07 you contribute to FDL, via paypal, online, or snailmail helps keep this reporting, and commentary, and all-around good livin’ experience going. Join in…the more the merrier.

And thanks as always to Jane, Christy, Pach, TRex, LHP, Siun and a whole bunch of other people who keep this beautiful lake going…a special neighborhood in a big ol’ world.

Nice Simp at 17. You may be right. But of course you are premising this on the idea that the admin is/was being honest here. Frankly, that has been rare.

Richmond (11) — Marcy’s live blogging is much closer to a transcript, if not a full and literal transcript. The MBA folks’ blogging is a more polished summation of testimony - I’d rather have mine straight up so I can make up my own mental summary.

And I personally prefer Marcy’s on-the-fly real time notations of inconsistencies and important points, since I trust her knowledge about the case implicitly. Not to mention her occasional injection of much-needed snark to puncture the stuffiness of OVP-WH hubris.

Bionic at 12: we are completely appalled.

Someone posted a quick outline of the events from July 6..and the events on AF1..cant find it..would that poster mind reposting?..timeline gets a little confusing but the picture is getting clearer..

eternally thankful for being able to read this blog…thanks for your work…

Ed*ard Teller @ 19

One last thought on Nuclear Football. Richland High School, adjacent to the Hanford Works in Washington state, the reactor complex responsible for the majority of plutonium production for the US, calls their athletic teams the “Bombers.” The HS’s home page has a big mushroom cloud:

http://www.richlandbombers.org/

I have a couple of Richland Bombers baseball caps, which I don’t wear very often. You can buy Richland Bombers baseball caps at the athletic supply sporting goods store in downtown Richland.

This whole bit will probably end up pretty soon on Wikipedia. Trivia (but not).

litigatormom @
10

Crazy Horse @ 7: I’m not sure whether those were Ari’s words, or Marcy’s editorializing. It would be quite extraordinary if Ari himself used those words!

Yup, as soon as i hit submit, i realized it could well be Marcy… who’s already used the word at least once today.

Simp @
17

Sorry, EPU’d.. really interested in a clarification on this:

I recall I said to these reporters, If you want to know who sent Amb Wilson to Niger, it was his wife, she works there…..

So THIS is where the whole “Plame sent Wilson” originated….My understanding is this:

1 - VP’s office sends a request to the CIA to look more closely into the matter.

2 - The meeting at the CIA discussing the issue, which Plame was not present at, it was mentioned that Plame’s Husband, Wilson might be a good candidate to go

3 - CIA asks, informally, of Plame if her husband would be willing to go. Plame passes on the request to Wilson.

Thus we see how:
1. Wilson would say Cheney sent him.
2. VP’s office would deny sending “him.”
3. Why Ari would say that “His wife sent him.”

This has always driven me nutz.

Yeah, me too. And your ’scenario’ is exactly what I thot happened. Valerie Plame did NOT play a role in SENDING Joe Wilson to Niger. She relayed the message from CIA to Joe.

Simp @ 17: I don’t think Wilson ever said he was sent by Cheney’s office. What he said was that the CIA sent him after getting questions from Cheney.

I checked out the mediabloggers site and it is much less complete than what EW is doing — they’re just posting 2 sentence summaries every once in a while.

Rayne @ 24

Richmond (11) — Marcy’s live blogging is much closer to a transcript, if not a full and literal transcript. The MBA folks’ blogging is a more polished summation of testimony - I’d rather have mine straight up so I can make up my own mental summary.

And I personally prefer Marcy’s on-the-fly real time notations of inconsistencies and important points, since I trust her knowledge about the case implicitly. Not to mention her occasional injection of much-needed snark to puncture the stuffiness of OVP-WH hubris.

Absolutely. I agree completely. Do you know who is doing the other site. It still would be interesting (much later) to compare on pov.

http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/iln/osc/index.html

if you go to this link, it provides a copy of all the evidence that is entered during the trial, such as the copies of the articles, the handwritten notes, etc.

I couldn’t help it, I had to check out what the wingnutosphere’s take so far is on today’s Ari testimony directly contradicting Libby’s sworn GJ statements.

Unsurprisingly perhaps, there is a paucity of posts (look over here, Sundance is icky!) but the few who are following along are still gamely tooting last year’s official OVP talking points.

Specifically, Fitz is a corrupt, self-serving hatchet man out to smear a fine American, Joe Wilson lied about everything he ever said, and Dick, Rover and Scooter never bothered their pretty little heads at all over “the wife”. (Surely that’s what Turdblossom meant by “fair game”, no?)

Will someone at the WH (hello, anyone not hiding in the bunker?) please send these poor folks an updated set, they’re two laps behind and gasping.

Blog on!

Anyone have a link to Libby’s “Dolphin” letter to Ari? Is it a coy reference to having swum with sharks?

Cranky Observer @
18

At the end of the Fleisher testimony, can we have a round up on whether or not we think Fitzgerald got his money’s worth by granting immunity? So far it seems helpful but not earthshattering.

Cranky

Fitz is using as little of Fleischer’s info as possible. Just enough to convict Libby.
I bet Fleischer offered a lot more and Fitz is siting on it so as to not telegraph strategy to Cheny for his upcoming trial.

John @ 5 - yep.

John @35 ;) cheers

melior at 33 — ROFL. Thanks, I needed that giggle.

EW, certainly do look into it. But from what you said, the “Dolphin’s solace” quote doesn’t necessarily raise red flags with me. I have one friend from grad school, with whom most of my correspondence over the past few years has been prompted by his alma-mater’s losses to their hated cross-state rival.

John Forde @
35

Cranky Observer @
18

At the end of the Fleisher testimony, can we have a round up on whether or not we think Fitzgerald got his money’s worth by granting immunity? So far it seems helpful but not earthshattering.

Cranky

Fitz is using as little of Fleischer’s info as possible. Just enough to convict Libby.
I bet Fleischer offered a lot more and Fitz is siting on it so as to not telegraph strategy to Cheny for his upcoming trial.

amen!

So, legal eagles here, is there a consensus that there will be more than one Fitz trial on this and related matters? (PLEZ).

Professor Foland @ 39

EW, certainly do look into it. But from what you said, the “Dolphin’s solace” quote doesn’t necessarily raise red flags with me. I have one friend from grad school, with whom most of my correspondence over the past few years has been prompted by his alma-mater’s losses to their hated cross-state rival.

But was he from Miami and therefore likely to be a Dolphin supporter?

P Your calls that you were going to make with Bartlett.

Fl on AF1 on the way back to DC.

They can’t do this to me. They can’t walk me all the way up to Fleischer and Bartlett making phone calls from Air Force One on July 12, and not spill the beans on who said what to whom. :)

Richmond (31) - no, sorry, I’ve only peeked over there a couple of times and returned here for the real deal.

TiredFed (25) - I hope all your true patriot peeps realize this is 180 degrees from what most of the folks at this blog would ever have wanted to see in the administration of our country. [sigh]

And by the way, a shout out to guests from NASA.gov, NOAA.gov, EXIM.gov, a few other state and local governments, multiple educational institutions; the stakes are high here, and we know there’s a lot riding on this that ultimately affects you. Here’s hoping for the best possible outcome at the end of this trial. Or trials.

May we all get our country back and soon.

OT but Juan Cole today was pointing out that re the 250 insurgents killed recently near Najaf they probably weren’t Sunnis but Shias belonging to a millenarian end of times sect.

http://www.juancole.com/

So this “success” as it was being touted by Bush today is more a disturbing instance of Shia on Shia violence.

As for those end of times guys, all I can say is thank goodness we have nothing like that in this country.

melior @ 33

I couldn’t help it, I had to check out what the wingnutosphere’s take so far is on today’s Ari testimony directly contradicting Libby’s sworn GJ statements.

Unsurprisingly perhaps, there is a paucity of posts (look over here, Sundance is icky!) but the few who are following along are still gamely tooting last year’s official OVP talking points.

Specifically, Fitz is a corrupt, self-serving hatchet man out to smear a fine American, Joe Wilson lied about everything he ever said, and Dick, Rover and Scooter never bothered their pretty little heads at all over “the wife”. (Surely that’s what Turdblossom meant by “fair game”, no?)

Will someone at the WH (hello, anyone not hiding in the bunker?) please send these poor folks an updated set, they’re two laps behind and gasping.

Blog on!

Heh Heh-two laps behind and gasping, not to mention running the wrong direction as well.

cranky @ 18 “At the end of the Fleisher testimony, can we have a round up on whether or not we think Fitzgerald got his money’s worth by granting immunity? So far it seems helpful but not earthshattering.”

Fitz would not have gotten any testimony from Fliescher without the immunity deal. We’re all entitled to 5th amendment protection, no?

I’ll ask a related question, what new and incriminating evidence did the prosecution get from Ari?

Would Ari likely have been indicted or did he overreact and squeal for a deal like a little scared cat?

I spent a couple of months in an Honest John Missile Bn at Ft Lewis and we would drag one of those babies over to Yakima and light the fuse from time to time. I think Richland is right in that area, no?

Ed*ard Teller @
19

One last thought on Nuclear Football. Richland High School, adjacent to the Hanford Works in Washington state, the reactor complex responsible for the majority of plutonium production for the US, calls their athletic teams the “Bombers.” The HS’s home page has a big mushroom cloud:

http://www.richlandbombers.org/

I have a couple of Richland Bombers baseball caps, which I don’t wear very often. You can buy Richland Bombers baseball caps at the athletic supply sporting goods store in downtown Richland.

Simp it is more complicated in some ways.

Joe Wilson has the rank of Ambassador, and while he was not Ambassador during his first Foreign Service appointment, which was to Niger, he traveled as a Retired Ambassador. He had to make arrangements with State, specifically with the African Desk for the terms of his trip. CIA paid costs, but his identity was State Department Rank. It isn’t cover — it is his rank. Rank in State is just as important as General is in the Army. And Generals don’t go into someone elses command unless invited, or ordered.

So it was Cheney who asked the question about the content of what we later learned were forged documents,

It was Wilson who had the right contacts and the ability to exploit them to get the desired information.

It was CIA that adopted his visit as a means of getting the information, and they paid the costs, and received the reports.

It was State that agreed their retired Ambassador could accept the mission, and they also received reports.

Whether either of the Wilson Reports made their way to the WH or Cheney was the decision of State and CIA.

So were the Miami Dolphins playing the Colorado Aspens in nuclear football, or what? This getting way over my head…

Just another brick in the wall.. The tall wall of lies and deception that just might crumble from this!!!

Walton As PS, did you think it proper to ask Mr Libby if what he told you was classified, given that he told you it was hush hush.
Fl I never heard those words hush hush QT used before WRT national security. I never thought I should. I wish I had. The procedure is very strict, any time anyone from national security would say to me something was classified, it always began, “this is classified.” The procedure is strict.

This can be interpreted two ways. One is that Libby’s failure to use the formal protocol shows that he didn’t think he was outing a covert officer (and thus had no motive to lie about his actions). The other — and the more likely one, IMO — is that Libby was telling Ari that this is a juicy tidbit that he should feel free to share with the press. That it was “hush hush” only from Wilson’s perspective.

P You testified that you believed that the name Plame or Plamay was used. What makes you think it was used?

Fl my memory.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Rayne -

Weren’t you working on a cheat sheee for newbies, or am I confusing you with someone else?

After looking at this and some other news coverage, I was wondering if anyone else thought that a possible WH strategy regarding this trial is to LET Fitz walk it up to the VP’s office, essentially throwing the entire VP chain under the bus so to speak, and then blame all of Iraq on Cheney as a crazy attempt to deflect blame (while implying that the WH is incredibly Byzantine in its workings) and get him to resign in the process. Sort of say, they trusted Cheney and shouldn’t have, so it’s HIS fault, really.

Could Libby’s strategy be a high stakes game of chicken? To try and expose enough of the Bush WH to make it more expedient to pardon him rather than have certain behaviors/information revealed? It doesn’t seem like the “I forgot cause I’m so busy” defense has a chance in hell of working.

Just throwing stuff out there. Any thoughts?

litigatormom @ 30

Simp @ 17: I don’t think Wilson ever said he was sent by Cheney’s office. What he said was that the CIA sent him after getting questions from Cheney.

Yes, Wilson’s op-ed is very clear that it was in response to questions from OVP, not a request to send someone. The entire “Wilson said he was sent by the VP” is a smokescreen. At best it’s that there were inaccurate press reports that said that as shorthand for what Wilson had actually said. I’m guessing that’s the case based on all the testimony that they were trying to refute that; without that testimony, I’d be inclined to think it was a pure BS smokescreen.

(It’s an interesting point, though. I’d always thought that their many “baffle ‘em with BS” pushbacks were carefully calculated; I wonder how many instances were more incompetent than that, and were just them going ballistic over some minor point in a story?)

But was he from Miami and therefore likely to be a Dolphin supporter?

Mr. Fleischer is a long time athletic supporter

“As for those end of times guys, all I can say is thank goodness we have nothing like that in this country.”

Thank goodness.

Swopa @
43

P Your calls that you were going to make with Bartlett.

Fl on AF1 on the way back to DC.

They can’t do this to me. They can’t walk me all the way up to Fleischer and Bartlett making phone calls from Air Force One on July 12, and not spill the beans on who said what to whom. :)

Dockteases?

cbl @ 56

But was he from Miami and therefore likely to be a Dolphin supporter?

Mr. Fleischer is a long time athletic supporter

Yes but why the Dolphins and not another team. People (real fans) tend to be real loyal, particularly via geography.

Simp @ 17

Sorry, EPU’d.. really interested in a clarification on this:

I recall I said to these reporters, If you want to know who sent Amb Wilson to Niger, it was his wife, she works there. Tamara Lippert Newsweek, David Gregory and John Dickerson, Time Magazine.

So THIS is where the whole “Plame sent Wilson” originated.

Can someone please help me clarify something (and I think this is a very important point that doesn’t seem to be highlighted)?

My understanding is this:

1 - VP’s office sends a request to the CIA to look more closely into the matter.

2 - The meeting at the CIA discussing the issue, which Plame was not present at, it was mentioned that Plame’s Husband, Wilson might be a good candidate to go

3 - CIA asks, informally, of Plame if her husband would be willing to go. Plame passes on the request to Wilson.

Thus we see how:
1. Wilson would say Cheney sent him.
2. VP’s office would deny sending “him.”
3. Why Ari would say that “His wife sent him.”

This has always driven me nutz.

Simp, my view is that 1. is correct. 2. Veep’s office did know that Ambassador Wilson was sent. As Craig Schmall wrote in an e-mail (introduced as defense exhibit 421 They were notified in 2002 and 2003.

Research revealed that Cheney did ask and received a memo in early 2002. The agents had copies of some faxes I had sent (in June) to Scooter Libby’s then chief of staff, ERic Edelman, containing an early 2002 and an early 2003 memo on the Iraq/Niger/Uranium issue doen for Cheney and Rumsfeld, respectively.

3. They were trying to cover their a$$.

andrew @ 32

http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/iln/osc/index.html

if you go to this link, it provides a copy of all the evidence that is entered during the trial, such as the copies of the articles, the handwritten notes, etc.

If you go to this link it provides the defense exhibits as well where the other one just provides the prosecution exhibits.

Swopa @ 43

P Your calls that you were going to make with Bartlett.

Fl on AF1 on the way back to DC.

They can’t do this to me. They can’t walk me all the way up to Fleischer and Bartlett making phone calls from Air Force One on July 12, and not spill the beans on who said what to whom. :)

Damn! That’s just what I thought! Why do you think nobody is going in to that? Do you think it will come up later?

WASHINGTON - Deeply distrustful of Iran, President Bush said Monday “we will respond firmly” if Tehran escalates its military actions in Iraq and threatens American forces or Iraqi citizens.

Mr. Fleischer is a long time athletic supporter.

So that’s what he was doing in the bathroom on Thursday….

Sara @ #49:

Okay - but Valerie Plame is not the one responsible (decision maker/authorizer) in sending Joe Wilson to Niger.

One aspect that I think is being overlooked is that Ari “Hey Gavin McCloud, you’re blinding me with your head” Fleisher is that he got a lawyer asap because he thought he might be the fall guy. That’s my take. I mean why go running for a lawyer and a deal if he trusted the people he worked for? Hint: Because he knew what kind of rats he was hanging out with.

Ari’s cool and composed while answering the prosecution, and annoyed while being attacked by the defense on cross-examination.

Yeah, he’s done well re immunity.

He’s proven that Libby’s spin about getting the Plame name & info from reporters is total bullshit.

He’s showing that Libby knew the Valerie Plame name on day x — and not merely as “Wilson’s wife,” which is how Rove was shopping it.

Ari’s showing that Libby knew she worked for CIA.

Ari’s showing that Libby knew she worked for the Directorate of Operations. On nonproliferation of WMDs. Libby knew, or should have known, that anyone working for the Directorate of Operations was likely to be — oh, you know. One of those people you’re not supposed to talk about.

But Libby leaked the info anyway. He’s not on trial for it, but seems like he knowingly did the deed.

Fleischer apparently knew enough to shut up about it, and to understand the consequences of leaking a NOC name. He seems to have been genuinely appalled, which the jury will note.

Andrew @32

Thanks for the Link. I had it before & lost it (and everything else) when my hard drive crashed. ‘Glad to have it again so I’ll be able to check out exhibits as the trial progresses.

That’s it? No more Fleischer? Awwwwww.

Don’t get me wrong, he did good, but I was hoping for a bit more.

Wow, am I glad, I mean GLAD, that I was wrong yesterday, when I thought that Ari would be a hostile, defensive, evasive witness and play the glib liar who fences with the prosecutor and is begrudging in giving up testimony.

It looks like Ari will be talkative, and if confession is good for the soul, then he should shine, but if he really comes clean, then we might see this case come wide open for all to see.

I hope Ari isn’t confabulating a huge lie.

Fingers crossed.

Go get ‘em Mr. Fitzgerald

After looking at this and some other news coverage, I was wondering if anyone else thought that a possible WH strategy regarding this trial is to LET Fitz walk it up to the VP’s office, essentially throwing the entire VP chain under the bus so to speak, and then blame all of Iraq on Cheney as a crazy attempt to deflect blame (while implying that the WH is incredibly Byzantine in its workings) and get him to resign in the process. Sort of say, they trusted Cheney and shouldn’t have, so it’s HIS fault, really

they are not that clever, smart, cunning, ________ (your word here)

Oh Tap! That’s what I was thinking….why would you lawyer up so quick.

litigatormom @ 63

Mr. Fleischer is a long time athletic supporter.

So that’s what he was doing in the bathroom on Thursday….

I think we finally have a name for him here - jockstrap!

Sebastian Trump @ 54

Could Libby’s strategy be a high stakes game of chicken?

These are the same people who organized the Iraq War. The idea that any of them could organize anything is vanishingly small.

Wordsmith @ 64

Sara @ #49:

Okay - but Valerie Plame is not the one responsible (decision maker/authorizer) in sending Joe Wilson to Niger.

She walked into the room with him, introduced him and walked out. End of story.

the Colorado Aspens

One of my favorite little known teams. Go

Trees

!!

Terre @ 68

That’s it? No more Fleischer? Awwwwww.

Don’t get me wrong, he did good, but I was hoping for a bit more.

Has he been excused for good? Or does he remain under oath, just in case?

cbl @ 56

But was he from Miami and therefore likely to be a Dolphin supporter?

Mr. Fleischer is a long time athletic supporter

I doubt he’s much of a jock although he does look strapped.

Next witness would be . . . ?

Not that they really need any more.
-

cbl @ 56

But was he from Miami and therefore likely to be a Dolphin supporter?

Mr. Fleischer is a long time athletic supporter

Well, we all knew that he was protecting Bush, but I don’t think we knew he was protecting Dick, too. ;)

Wordsmith @ 64

Sara @ #49:

Okay - but Valerie Plame is not the one responsible (decision maker/authorizer) in sending Joe Wilson to Niger.

funny, with all the denying the office of vice president was doing, it remains abundantly clear, the vice presdent DID send Joe

the ovp specifically requested the matter be looked into by the cia, the cia obliged by sending the best qualified individual

THIS MEANS THE VICE PRESIDENT SENT JOE WILSON

it doesn’t matter if the vp knew which person the agency would be sending to find the information he requested, all that matters is the vp requested the information and THE VICE PRESIDENT IS WITH NO DOUBT the person that sent Joe Wilson

this is the typical;

if cheney says it the reverse must be true

Wordsmith @ 64

Sara @ #49:

Okay - but Valerie Plame is not the one responsible (decision maker/authorizer) in sending Joe Wilson to Niger.

Correct.

SharonW @
61

Swopa @ 43

They can’t do this to me. They can’t walk me all the way up to Fleischer and Bartlett making phone calls from Air Force One on July 12, and not spill the beans on who said what to whom. :)

Damn! That’s just what I thought! Why do you think nobody is going in to that? Do you think it will come up later?

All I can guess is that there’s a mutual agreement of some sort not to go there.

I suspect it could come up later if Colin Powell is called as a witness, or Dan Bartlett.

Wordsmith @ 71

Oh Tap! That’s what I was thinking….why would you lawyer up so quick.

Yeah, I mean if you thought that everyone else wasn’t breaking the law, what’s the problem? Unless you’re the fall guy. Which is interesting because that mihgt have been their plan all along, until Ari quit, and then it’s “OH shit, who else do we got?”

did anyone recognize Ari’s lawyer’s - are they anyone of note ?? apologies if prev. covered

Will Ari’s finish conclude today’s festivities? Or is someone else coming up?

ok, lot’s of testimony to go through and I just got here

could someone tell me if anything earth shattering was revealed by ari?

Tap Duncan @ 65

One aspect that I think is being overlooked is that Ari “Hey Gavin McCloud, you’re blinding me with your head” Fleisher is that he got a lawyer asap because he thought he might be the fall guy. That’s my take. I mean why go running for a lawyer and a deal if he trusted the people he worked for? Hint: Because he knew what kind of rats he was hanging out with.

He also was out of the WH by then, so he would be up against all of cabal if they hung him out to dry.

Neil @ 47 asked:
I’ll ask a related question, what new and incriminating evidence did the prosecution get from Ari?

If Libby told him about Wilson’s wife, and even used her name ‘Plame’ on July 7, and if the jury believes him, then Scooter is in very hot water. He told the GJ he only heard it from Russert, on July 10.

Unless someone can correct me… this was a serious blow delievered.

Sara @ #49,

You’ve written the best explanation of Wilson’s status at the time of the Niger trip and of the probable logistics of getting him over there I’ve read. Good job - it’s a keeper!

Raven @ #48,

Yakima Firing Range is part of Ft. Lewis, used for various kinds of training, such as what your unit performed. Hanford, about 40 miles to the east, was created during WWII as part of the Manhattan Project, for the creation of plutonium. It was started as part of Department of Defense, but has long since been transferred to Department of Energy.

Interestingly, the warhead/nosesecone of the MGR-1 Honest John rocket which you guys lit off at YFR, is shaped quite a bit more like a football than is the POTUS’s so-called “football.”

The MGR-1 warhead could either be nuclear or about a hundred baseball-sized sarin gas bomblets…

Tap Duncan @ 82

Wordsmith @ 71

Oh Tap! That’s what I was thinking….why would you lawyer up so quick.

Yeah, I mean if you thought that everyone else wasn’t breaking the law, what’s the problem? Unless you’re the fall guy. Which is interesting because that mihgt have been their plan all along, until Ari quit, and then it’s “OH shit, who else do we got?”

Cheney (Matalin) was doing fund raising for the Libby defense. Besides, Cheney is too dangerous to this admin - away from his job. No way they would set him up for a fall.

choochmac @ 86

Tap Duncan @ 65

One aspect that I think is being overlooked is that Ari “Hey Gavin McCloud, you’re blinding me with your head” Fleisher is that he got a lawyer asap because he thought he might be the fall guy. That’s my take. I mean why go running for a lawyer and a deal if he trusted the people he worked for? Hint: Because he knew what kind of rats he was hanging out with.

He also was out of the WH by then, so he would be up against all of cabal if they hung him out to dry.

Great point!

Can someone tell me again why Fleischer was granted immunity? Absolutely no smoking gun(s) in his testimony, unless I missed something.

Neil @ 47

cranky @ 18 “At the end of the Fleisher testimony, can we have a round up on whether or not we think Fitzgerald got his money’s worth by granting immunity? So far it seems helpful but not earthshattering.”

Fitz would not have gotten any testimony from Fliescher without the immunity deal. We’re all entitled to 5th amendment protection, no?

I’ll ask a related question, what new and incriminating evidence did the prosecution get from Ari?

Would Ari likely have been indicted or did he overreact and squeal for a deal like a little scared cat?

Doesn’t Ari provide that Libby knew before he said he knew(Russert) AND that Libby knew she was classified/covert/”hush-hush”…

I think Ari shivs Libby’s defense, in that a bunch of the others(Grossman and Grenier for example) can be lumped into the ‘bad memory’ defense…IOW, it’s possible that the name was brought up and he really didn’t remember it.

But how do you know something on Monday, and tell it to Ari, and foget it by Thursday, when you learnt it from Russert?

paints him as a liar, and gives him the motivation to lie (she was hush-hush)

OT?

“The speaker will be blogging,” promised Karina Newton, Pelosi’s director of new media.

“She understands the power that the netroots have.”

Tap Duncan @ 74

Wordsmith @ 64

Sara @ #49:

Okay - but Valerie Plame is not the one responsible (decision maker/authorizer) in sending Joe Wilson to Niger.

She walked into the room with him, introduced him and walked out. End of story.

I am not sure about this. She may have convened the meeting on who was to be sent (at the request of the Veep’s office, of course.) What does anyone else think?

Swopa @
43

P Your calls that you were going to make with Bartlett.

Fl on AF1 on the way back to DC.

They can’t do this to me. They can’t walk me all the way up to Fleischer and Bartlett making phone calls from Air Force One on July 12, and not spill the beans on who said what to whom. :)

That is cruel and unusual, Swopa.

Tap @ 74:

Exactly….Thanks. I’d read Joe Wilson’s book when it first came, and it has driven me crazy that it was bandied about constantly and all these sectors that Valerie Plame was responsible for Wilson going to Niger.

Nice job of discounting the value of someone especially when you know you’re lying about their involvement from this administration, eh?

Tap Duncan @ 74

Wordsmith @ 64

Sara @ #49:

Okay - but Valerie Plame is not the one responsible (decision maker/authorizer) in sending Joe Wilson to Niger.

She walked into the room with him, introduced him and walked out. End of story.

Yes, but unfortunately it does seem like a lot of people (including Grossman, who if anything is pro-Wilson) looked at that bit of information and assumed she played a larger role than she did.

The testimony of the first few witnesses — prosecution witnesses, mind you — was that they told Libby she was the reason Wilson was sent. Libby and Cheney are pigfuckers, but you can imagine them hearing that information and going ballistic.

Biodun @ 92

I think becuase Fitz would not have gotten any testimony from Fliescher without the immunity deal. We’re all entitled to 5th amendment protection.

I’m also confused about why what KIND of immunity that Ari got was so important.

CONFLICT IN IRAQ
Pelosi’s trip: She believes more strongly that withdrawal will help region, says troops deserve better policies than president’s

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/.....NQQOK1.DTL

watertiger @ 76

I dunno - I assumed so, since EW’s last words were “Next Witness”. Sounds like he’s done, at least for today? I imagine if they call him back, it would only be for clarification?

Cheney did not send anyone. He behested someone sent. And now may he be hoist.
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