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As someone who is not overly enamored of large marches as an effective political tool in this media era, I nonetheless understand they have value for those attending as they can be extremely motivating and inspirational, not to mention a lot of fun. The problem, from an organizational standpoint, is that it's hard to justify all the effort that goes into putting them together relative to the amount of media impact they have. In this day and age the media are just basically bored with marches in general and are only slightly more enthusiastic about covering them than the first round semifinals of the Betty Crocker Bake-Off.
But that does not stop yon Instacracker from taking his right wing victimology for a short constitutional. Via Roy, we heare him whinge:
Protests are tired in general. Media reporting, however, seems selective -- there wasn't much reporting on the "pro life" protests in Washington on Monday, perhaps because there's no way to spin that against Bush.
I'm sure if Mel Gibson had shown up at the pro-life rally with a couple of Cosmos under his belt singing "To All the Girls I've Loved" it would've been all over CNN too, and Reynolds would've had to fall back on mewling about the tragicly unfair dearth of Good Time News from Iraq. But as the Knob of Knoxville once again demonstrates his profound ignorance about how the media operates, it does inadvertently lead to an interesting question -- are the celebrities one must produce in order to get the media past their big collective yawns offering the right message for the moment?
Don't get me wrong, I admire all of those who showed up who were willing to publicly speak out against the war, and believe that their willingness to do so despite knowing that they will be demonized by the right wing noise machine is extremely admirable. But with a war opposed now by some 75% of the country, I'm not sure having it promoted as a "fringe left" cause was the absolute best plan. And I say that as someone who would be considered by most to be a fringe lefty -- I'm not sure having me standing up there would've been a great idea, either. I don't agree with John Murtha about much of anything other than his position on the war, and that's what made him a great candidate to start pushing back against Dick Cheney and his merry band of neocon nutballs. Trouble is, finding a celebrity with Murtha-type baggage that the cameras want to glom onto is quite difficult -- and overnight the Mighty Wurlitzer would instantly turn them into a drooling zealot anyway. Remember, the subject of Michael J. Fox and whether he was "faking" his Parkinson's symptoms for political gain was a serious topic of discussion amongst serious people during the last election cycle. If there is a limit to how far Pills Limbaugh will go to smear someone who isn't doing a St. Vitus' dance of love for George Bush, we haven't found it yet.
I don't have any answers, just making an observation.
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ESTEN!
Frotz! er, Fitz!
JANE **hugs**
Hey, I’m a Betty Crocker Homemaker of Tomorrow (1966). Does that count for anything?
Gotta love Fitz exposing the sycophant press like we never could.
Answers, answers. I don’t have any either, but when confronted with insurmountable obstacles, I am constitutionally biased toward end runs.
:)
It may sound hokie, but watching the anti-rally brought back memories of sitting in the airman’s club in my uniform watching and wishing I could join the party,
No such luck.
Dear Ms Jane,
When Mr HotFlash and I were discussin’ the meaning of life the other night, and the question came up, “But what can one person do?” the answer was “Jane Hamsher.” We stand inspired.
OT- I want to order ‘Anatomy of Deceit’ but Amazon.com still does not show a release date. When will it be released? Barnes and Noble says 1/28, but I’d rather use the link here to give credit. Anoyone know when Amazon will start sending it out?
solai @ 9
I just got an email that mine shipped. Go ahead and order!
I have been dubious of marches and all that stuff for some time, but I have recently found a new rationale for such things. They do not intimidate the powers-that-be as they did in the 60’s but they do enhearten those of us who are not represented by our elected representatives, our government, our media and our institutions.
This helps.
I was at the Sept. 2005 rally and part of the whole weekend was going to the congresscritters’ offices to lobby on monday before getting back on a plane.
Gilliard posted MahBlog’s Protesting 101 which I think makes some great points.
As for this particular one, I didn’t go to D.C. The reality of it is that the American people are with us and one day the media just might catch up.
Ms. Jane
Sorry for being a dolt. I should have first welcomed you back. Prayers still in the forcast.
The opposition is now in the dangerous land of backlash and blowback.
That I am digging.
Just wish that the larger amount of press the rally got this weekend than past rallies isn’t because the opposition is trying to wallpaper over the unseemly stuff that is crawling all over the place. It’s one thing to suspect they’ve been doing this to us, but another to have Cathie Martin testify to it…are they doing it right now?
There’s also the swing vote folks who are just now joining the fray; they haven’t had a full broadside yet from the vicious vituperative mouth-breathing basement dwellers. Will they backslide? I hope not, I hope they are growing in awareness and getting a spine.
Oh, and the March for Womens’ Lives was a must do weekend event. It really energized the movement. I wouldn’t have missed that one.
I think about marches the way I think about bumperstickers: they will not convince anyone who is not already convinced, but they do give those who are convinced (but timid) the social permission to believe what they believe and to say so. Like it or not, most people are conformists and hesitate greatly to say or do anything that deviates from what they percieve to be group norms. Knowing that someone, or 100,000 someones, think the way you do breaks down the inhibitions. Of course, this means that marches and bumperstickers were more useful in 2003 than in 2007, when the polls tell us that the group norm is now to oppose the war. No one needs the sanction of the group to say so now.
HotFlash @
4
So was I (1974). And I’m a guy (bachelor living class). Captain of the basketball team and Betty Crocker at the same time.
It wasn’t pretty.
I got a tie-tack.
Susan Sarandon! Annie Savoy! Janet Weiss!!
Sure there is, Instacracker. How about the fact that, despite stacking the courts with right-wing judges and despite several years of a completely subservient Congress, Dubya never took a single step to actually ban abortion when he had the chance?
He’s not on your side, Instacracker. He and the GOP have been running a huge scam on you to get your vote. And you’re too busy frothing at the mouth to notice you’ve been had.
Fonda looks fabulous! This is probably the real reason Ole Scratch and the rest of the right wing horrors hate her.
p.s. It’s great to see ‘Jane Hamsher’ in the by-line several times today. Good on you, Jane!!
mamayaga @ 16
Polls are one thing, but having the experience of other humans marching with you is a validation that will last forever. As my grandmaster said about meditating under a waterfall, “Everyone should do it. Once. When they are young.”
Utter disaster is a great motivator. That looming disaster is not yet immediate and utterly invasive enough to motivate the general populace.
One day it might be, but not right now.
HotFlash @
4
Wow! I was “Betty Crocker Homemaker of Tommorow” from my HS class in 1965!
woof!
nice observations, Jane.
Rayne @ 21
Second that.
I think the most important impact that peace marches like this have is how the rest of the world looks at us. They must appreciate that we are not all nutcases.
Jane,
I respectfully disagree.
I think marches are very important, but not because of the tv coverage.
The march communicates the message that something is so wrong that people are willing to disrupt their daily lives to express themselves about it.
Also, a camradery is borne, and a sense of identity is developed. And there is an impulse to make those around you commit. Over time, the radical becomes seen as common sense to those who share our view.
The current soft opposition to the Iraq War in opinion polls is largely worthless. People are still dying. The bureaucracy of war chugs along. The pols make a few sanctimonious speeches. Nothing is done.
Only when the radical — LEAVE NOW — becomse common sense will politicans feel safe to act.
One of the things that someone wrote about on one of these blog thingies yesterday was that it was great to see so many young people out marching.
For young people to have the experience of being surrounded by people of all ages and races coming together for the same cause, it is an important experience. Often it motivates them to get more involved when they get home.
If there is no other reason, this one is good enough for me to keep doing these kinds of things.
I have never been a great “marcher” either. But, from what I’ve read, those of us who are of the “march age” take their kids along too. Like passing the torch. I thought that this was really important in the marches about reproductive rights. There’s a generation now that has mostly taken this for granted.
jayt @ 17
Jayt, cool! I figure that I won because I knew the definition of denier. I still have my sterling silver charm. Never had a charm bracelet, so it’s still in the box. Although I feel a little envious. You got Homemaker of Tomorrow, I wasn’t allowed to take drafting. I was a girl, and everyone knows that drafting is done with a pen(i)sil, which girls don’t have.
Jane!
Not a solution, but my rambling observation….
When I go to big city political demos, the speakers all sound so unhappy - I always wonder why they expect anyone to join them in torment.
My fantasy demos would be organized by some religious order under a vow of silence. All that listening would make for well chosen speakers.
None of the silent organizers would be jockeying for mike time, either.
In the real world, at big lefty demos the usual ANSWER-chosen rhetoric appeals to dysthymic masochists.
This begs the QUESTION - who pays for the repetition of this reliably success-proof public outreach?
Hmm. A prominent (inescapable) organization sufficiently well-funded as to show up with lots of material resources at just about any progressive demo of note. Centralized power structure. Participation tanks messaging of host orgs.
Qui bono?
Who funds?
[And anyone remember what proportion of active American Communist Party members during the 60’s were actually law enforcement? Just asking….]
montag @ 23
Montag, I have been catching up on late nights, and I thank you for your service to our country.
Well, I don’t think having Jane Fonda there helped the cause any. Personally I stayed away in part because the same group sponsored the last big march in June 2005 and I thought they were obnoxious. The speakers kept the crowd waiting for hours while they refused to cut down on their speaking time. Quite frankly, I think it is incredibly thoughtless to make people (including children and elderly folks) who have often traveled a long way to participate, wait in the heat or the cold so you can have your 15 minutes of fame.
Unfortunately, having Tim Robins, Susan Sarandon and Jane Fonda speak plays right into the right wing characterization of the “hate America first” dissenters - and makes the whole thing easy to dismiss.
On the other hand, so many people I know are so frustrated at not being able to do anything to stop what’s happening (other than elect a Democratic Congress) - at least protesting is “doing something.”
Terry Olson @ 27
Good point. This is not lost on the rest of the world. But we/they are wondering why it is not having more effect. Ms Pelosi, can you tell us? Sen Biden?
Lovely. The media is “bored” with demonstrations. The media thought it was “fun” to make fun of Al Gore in 2000 by printing lies about him, over and over.
So the petty whims of the former fourth estate (no longer an estate, more of a fun-house now) decide who runs our country, and how it is run. Just lovely.
Unless, of course, it is really *more* than just the petty whims of reporters. In that case, I must call it *ugly*. Very.
I guess it was September 2005 - in any event it was extremely hot.
HotFlash @ 31
Wow, my junior high school must have been unknowingly radical, because I was allowed to take (and thoroughly enjoyed) 2 semesters of drafting. And, I was the only femme, so that made it extra special. Typing? That was required too. Probably would have gotten and deserved a D, but the teacher took pity on me. I was 12 at the time.
Hotflash, see my #24.
I had the same reaction as you, Jane. While I was grateful for their participation, the presence of right-wing target favorites like Fonda, Penn, Sarandon and Robbins runs the risk of enabling the Wurlitzer to paint the group as “fringe” rather than the 70 of the country.
I said in my diary after our rootz visit to DiFi and Boxer
“at least once in their life everyone should stand on the Mall with their chosen tribe”.
I still think it is one of the most powerful experiences a person can have. I was thinking about the gay march on Washington I attended in 1987 but I remember the anti-Vietnam War marches had much the same feeling although I wasn’t in DC for those.
I just don’t understand the clear hatred, & then backhanded compliments towards street protests. Why are you so intolerant? I’d sure rather be out in the cold in northern Wisco with 70 other people, than typing away in my living room. What’s your problem anyway? To be frank, it’s making me lose interest.
Whenever I see Sarandon and Robbins, I am reminded of their smug support for Nader in 2000 and their condescending attitude toward all who suggested that the differences between Bush and Gore were so great that progressives could not afford to cast their votes for Nader.
To my knowlege, neither of the them has acknowledged their collosal error in judgment in this regard.
And now they protest a war that would never have come about if Gore were elected in 2000…
Jane,
I agree. I think marches are good for the attendees but bad for the movement. The events are fun but the speeches are usually very tired. That doesn’t mean I don’t think they shouldn’t happen. I think the morale and fun of the attendees is a good thing.
But MSM will never be able to cover these correctly and it doesn’t matter how “well behaved” the crowd is. Call it the Gay Pride Parade rule. It doesn’t matter how many “Lesbians Saving Orphans” or “Gays Serving Meals to Seniors” floats there are, the cameras will always focus on the drag queen on roller skates. The trick for the community is to not get mad at the drag queen and then try to exclude them from the next parade. There is no way to “act straight” enough for the Media with today’s “liberals are loopy” meme. The reality of the event doesn’t matter so I say, let’s party.
So Lieberman is saying today he might vote Republican in ‘08. Does that mean he might vote for anti-war Republican Hagel, if Hegal is the candidate? If so, wouldn’t that be a bit weird? A bit like Joe voting against himself perhaps?
HotFlash @ 33
If you refer to time in the army, I didn’t do much. I just did my best not to kill anyone or be killed. That’s what sensible people do in the midst of useless, stupid wars.
To borrow a phrase, this isn’t a sprint … I wrote yesterday about the contrast between this protest and what’s going on at the Capitol Building, so just go there if you want. I’ll wait….
OK, now here’s the thing - it’s going to take a lot to get this Congress off the dime. Protests aren’t going to do it alone, nor is writing to our congresscritters. Until they see that not only do we want out of Iraq but they have to start worrying about their own jobs or the stability of the country are we going to get any real action. That Jim Webb voted against Chris Dodd’s proposed bill this week just amplifies that point, I think.
I am irritated with the eagerness on the part of many Democrats to disassociate ourselves from the “fringe left”. This is a self-defeating tactic: by agreeing with the Republicans that views to the left of the mainstream Democratic position are illegitimate, and also agreeing that it’s just fine if the media do not present such views, the political debate in this country is artificially shifted to the right.
The result of this is that single-payer health care is treated as a fringe idea, not serious. Demanding that the Democrats defund the war, not just the surge, is unspeakable. Calling for impeachment is not something that can be said on TV.
This silencing of the left hurts Democratic moderates, even if they do not share those views. If the left cannot speak, then the natural process of compromise means that we wind up splitting the difference between centrist Dems and the far right. Robust leftist voices would probably move the compromise closer to the point of view that Democratic moderates espouse in the first place.
Democrats can also learn lessons from the right: notice how Republicans manage to disagree with their more extreme wingnuts without trying to make them un-persons.
Valley Girl @ 38
sigh.
I won the test (1977), but Principal Cordano intervened and snatched away my brief hope of domestic bliss.
My earlier run for Homecoming Queen was - I still maintain - an irrelevant premise for this gross abuse of administrative power. ;)
Valley Girl @ 30
My politically uninvolved youngest daughter drove from college in Ohio with some friends to participate in the Pro-Choice March in Washington several years ago. I was shocked but happy that she and her friends were motivated enough to go.
It was truly inspiring for her - she came away transformed by the dynamic of the group experience. In particular she was moved by the older women at the march (some of the first proponents of birth control), and the GW Med students who were participating as future pro-choice doctors.
America ‘poised to strike at Iran’s nuclear sites’ from bases in Bulgaria and Romania
Report suggest that ‘US defensive ring’ may be new front in war on terror. By Gabriel Ronay
PRESIDENT BUSH is preparing to attackIran’snuclearfacilities before the end of April and the US Air Force’s new bases in Bulgaria and Romania would be used as back-up in the onslaught, according to an official report from Sofia.
http://www.sundayherald.com/in.....omania.php
HotFlash @ 11
well said. I also like the idea that they are sending a signal to the international community that there are a goodly number of people who are not happy with the status quo. It makes for good global PR.
There are two more years of Bush-Cheney regime in your face
be damned to you administration who could really care less about
the welfare of the American people. There is a momentum starting
to swell in opposition to everything about this regime. The Libby
trial will galvanize the nation as the weeks go on as Fitz’s web
will ensare Cheney and others. Public marches, demonstrations,
gatherings, protests are an important frabric of a vibrant
Democracy. Sure an opposition always exist that will demonize and
distort the message of the Protest. So we accept it and push back!
If we believe in the power of truth to power then we use all
means of communication. Power to the People. Long live those
who Protest.
I think, when we’ve all had enough and millions of us finally show up in rank all over the streets of Washington, our fearless leader will take note. Until that time comes, he’ll ignore us all. I hope there are more of these marches scheduled and that the crowd grows larger every time.
Rick Penn @ 42
I’ve been involved in plenty of protests - large and small. United for Peace & Justice does a terrible job of organizing, could care less about the people protesting, and is a rather polarizing organization.
The peace movement could & should do better.
Instacracker!- ROTFLMAO - Thank God you are back!
HotFlash @ 4
jayt @ 17
HotFlash @ 31
Valley Girl @ 38
Life was not easy in the ’60’s. For instance, I was born in Port Huron and grew up there, left in 1969. I didn’t even hear of the Port Huron Statement until the mid ’70’s. (If you can remember the ’60’s…)
BTW, three (3) “Betty Crocker Homemakers of Tomorrow” have commented on this thread. And, Kirk mighta been a 4th.
HotFlash @ 31
I don’t know what y’all are talking about. I took a one semester class in bachelor living, where I learned how to make breakfast rolls and to sew a button back on a shirt. Evidently, this qualified all of us guys to take the written test.
So, all of the basketball guys took the written test, where we sat around trying to come up with the most ridiculous answers to the questions that we could think of.
And then I won the stupid thing.
To repeat myself, Hotflash, did you read that I also was a BCHofT? 1965. !!!!
*xyz @ 43
Neither have I, xyz, and I never will. Bush and Gore were both jokers, and both way too tied up in the corporate world to have made good Presidents. If Gore wasn’t such a joker, he wouldn’t have “lost” in Florida, because he would have picked up enough other states that it wouldn’t have mattered.
As for what Robbins, Fonda, and Sarandon mean to others, I can’t say. Many folks probably don’t even remember who they are any more. My own perception of Fonda isn’t a good one, but Robbins and Sarandon I respect. I just don’t take their opinions all that seriously.
I write all this to say that their backing of Nader doesn’t mean much at all to most folks, and ought to mean less to some. If they think it’s an error, I suspect they’ll say so. In the meantime, why not grant them the right to think differently, and perhaps, be wrong and still worth respecting?
Ikirk murphy @ 49
I won in 1963….am I the oldest Betty Crocker Homemaker Award winner here?
I understood the concept of casseroles. But I still was not permitted to take shop. No girls allowed. We have come along way, Baby!
[Mod Note; please do not use “Quote this Comment” on this comment. It will be a margin buster.]
I coulda been a contender….
Evenin’ Firedogs,
agree, agree, agree. I also make an effort to wear my best June Cleaver Drag when participating in hopes of letting others less inclined ‘to join the hippies’ a signal that it’s okay -
pol @ 54
pol, marching on DC is symbolic, but also very expensive and time-consuming. However, the Federal Govt is everywhere — how convenient for us! Post offices, recruitment centers, FBI offices, Homeland Security, borders, lots of places where we can have low-cost, low-maintenance protests. And of course, newspapers, TV, cable and radio staions. They are selling us down the river as fast as they can.
There’s Susan Sarandon. And… there’s Liz Taylor.
Valley Girl @ 58
“Anarchist’s Cookbook“
Wow! Now we have four (4) Betty Crocker Homemakers of Tomorrow who have outed themselves, and one wanna be! HotFlash, jayt, VG, AliceB, and Kirk!
HotFlash @ 67
hehe…
Judging from Penn, Sarandon, Robbins, Baldwin and others, I don’t know that Hill has Hollywood locked up.
Alice B @ 62
I won in 1963….am I the oldest Betty Crocker Homemaker Award winner here?
I understood the concept of casseroles. But I still was not permitted to take shop. No girls allowed. We have come along way, Baby!
Alice, you are welcome to use my drillpress and bandsaw anytime.
The most effective rallies I know of have been those of Los Madres de la Plaza de Mayo, in memory of Los Desperacidos. But they are highly focused and are the outward face of a movement, not a short-term expression of protest. They meet many of Mahablog’s Protest 101 rules, too, if you think about it.
It’s interesting, I believe the war will require the same level of domestic violence Vietnam did to really end it. it will take people fighting and dying in the streets of the USA before the congress-vermin will really take it seriously.
All the blather in the world won’t get the American people’s attention like the gal at Kent State.
Blood will run again, in the streets of the US, before this war will end. I hate that it is so, but after the performance of the Dems so far, they haven’t the spine to cut off funding.
I did it in ‘69 in Berkeley. Two shot pellets and a club to the head. I was 14 at the time.
God damn it, Jane; so glad you’re back. Once again, you hit the nail right on the fucking head.
Good vibes and bestest wishes from a fellow three-time cancer
loserwinner!bicmon
1963
1965
1966
1974
1977
Nice!
It is interesting to think about this issue in conjunction with the huge march by Latinos/as a while back. A million I think. Others might know better, but I think it had a major impact. Just all of this group coming out together. Right after that the clamor to “send em all back” pretty much dissipated. It pointed out very clearly that the U.S. can’t do without this larger group economically.
I while back, I was also part of the million plus demonstration in Spain (Barcelona) against the Iraq war (just happened to be there). The next election in Spain saw a major change.
I don’t think political action is a zero sum game. Different sorts of activities impact different people. The frustration at this point is to try to do something that will make a difference in terms of the war losses. Yes we won the election, and 75% of Americans are against the war, but there is a real threat of backsliding on this, particularly since MSM seems so gung ho (NYT & Post esp, but others too).
Last May at the anti war rally here in NYC, a few of us worked “The Kids PEACE Tent” and spent the entire day practicing the peace we were preaching. We had games (putt for peace, dunk for peace, spin art for peace, puppets for peace, chess for peace) etc. and in the midst of madness several hundred of us enjoyed each other as we “stood up to be counted.”
IMHO, too often the marches are about talking down to instead of including/engaging the participants. (This includes the cult of celebrity and the “rockstarism” of many anti war advocates.)
In terms of media savvy, that time bomb is waiting to explode, and I suspect a virtual revolution is near at hand.
Wanna set up a virtual anti war video march on YOUTUBE? I’ll make a video if you will…we could string ‘em together and see how many videos we can get. Then we can send all our videos to the WH and crash their servers … Bet they’d hear that:)
Okay, who else we got here. Any National Merit Scholars? Fulbright? What?
HotFlash @ 71
Alice, you are welcome to use my drillpress and bandsaw anytime.
I’ll bite — what is the concept of the casserole?
I’m a “Road Scholar!”
. . . and one Homecoming Queen;)
Fulbright and many others. The most embarrassing was H.S. cheerleading (that is painful).
big media obviously does not care about marchers unless its the march of dimes or a sponsor filled fun run. The main reason I don’t run out and protest often is due to my rural location and due to my experience of being arrested for no good reason when exercising my right to assemble peacefully. The power of demonstrating with tens or hundreds of thousands should not be dismissed easily. The action itself leads to greater awareness and greater resolve for change in ways not easily measured (much like blogs). Protests need to build up to much larger numbers over an extended period of time in order to demand attention, imo. It’s a last resort, not a quick fix. At this point in time no stone should be left unturned until the killing stops.
As one speaker said (with thousands of others) at the DC demonstration yesterday…
Not one more death
Not one more dollar
Not one more day
I just watched this weeks episode of NOW on PBS. Laurie David who produced An Inconvenient Truth mentioned her efforts to distribute 50K copies to public schools for free. They contacted a science teachers organization (from public schools) who told them no, they would not help provide a list of teachers or help in any other manner. Ultimately the reason science teachers would not help is due to their acceptance of 6 million dollars in support from Exxon and a few big oil members on their board who would not allow it. Our teachers our media and gawd knows who else are compromised from within.
A war is being waged on us from so many angles. The Dixie Chicks said, Not ready to make nice. We continue to play nice at our peril, I’m afraid.
Everyone who accepts so many of the facts before us as troublesome must act in any and every peaceful way possible. Especially when the people in the seats of power are not listening at all.
Here is a web site where there are lots of B.C. winners hanging around. It seems that they think a reunion would be just peachy. http://tinyurl.com/2bfvps (Hope you all have your pins. They sound quite special.)
This competition is news to me. When I was in high school, I avoided Home Ec. Concocting “recipes” in the chem lab that exploded spectacularly and stunk up the whole school was way more fun.
Hotflash - have actually thought in the past that we have at least 4 Eagle Scouts
HotFlash @ 78
But… but…. those just don’t have the same ring of authenticity as “Betty Crocker Homemaker of Tomorrow”. And, we already know there are lotsa smart people at FDL. But somehow, that other stuff really doesn’t cut it, compared with BCHofT.
Guitar_Playing_Bastard @ 73
Gilliard talks about this and concludes that the war in Nam ended because the army fell apart. I don’t know. I don’t have enough information and certainly am not that close a student of history. But if what he is saying is right, it would seem that there are 2 important things happening here. 1. Yes, the army/marine corps is breaking. 2. It isn’t breaking the same way that it did in Nam. This is a volunteer military, then it was draftees.
Don’t know where this is leading, but I thought he made some interesting points.
HotFlash,
Thanks for the offer, but I now have a workshop to die for. Always figured if I could make a dress, how hard was it to put in a kitchen. Funny, it was fun and easy. Four kitchens later……and three bathrooms and one entire house plumbing…
Didn’t make the march but did watch it. I have been to my fair share and always found them exhilarating but not much of a bang for the buck lately. We need a demonstration that hits the big honchos in the wallet.
HotFlash @ 79
Good way to use old tuna?
Gosh this ‘what the ReichWing loonies are saying about the marches…’ meme is all over dese Internets Jane.
I have to ask you and everyone else who’s going on about this one question:
‘Since when do we of the progressive movement in this country constrain our actions so as to minimize ReichWing attacks on us?’
Do we do that on a woman’s right to choose?
No.
Do we do that on selecting who we are gonna support with ActBlue and our blogging efforts?
No.
Do we do that when we spell out in so many words why George W. Bus and Dick Cheney are more dangerous to our nation, or our Constitution, that a thousand Osama bin Ladens.
No.
So why the concern about some sort of perceived vulnerability with regard to citizens, let me use that word again, citizens peacefully assembling to tell the government:
‘Hell no!’
I say this:
‘I don’t give a fuck what Instacracker, M.Ledeen, D’Snooza or any of the rest of the howling fools of the ReichWing mouthorgan has to say. They’ve been wrong about every single thing they’ve ever said about:
Iraq…
Bush…
The GWOT…
The military…
Our rights…
totally, abjectly, stupidly, irretrievably, amazingly…
consistently wrong!
And 80% of the country knows this. That majority agrees with us. What we in Left Blogistan should be doing is telling this gaggle of evil assclowns to have a nice, big, hot mug of:
STFU!
Telling them that every day. And blogging about why they should do so.
Not navel gazing about what Instashit and the rest of his ilk have on what passes for their ‘minds’.
National Honor Society. National Merit Scholar - the year they ran out of money for scholarships, wouldn’t you know?
Member of the first co-ed class (first female students) to take Industrial Shop/Wood Shop (straight A’s).
One of two first female students in drafting, both in high school and at vocational school (straight A’s).
Worked for 4 years as a draftsperson after two years in drafting/engineering technician co-op student role at GM.
Kirk Murphy -
’sokay, least you don’t have to live down Julie Brown
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrsxpgRooU4
Absolutely agree. There’s nothing like standing and waiting for a march to begin for two to three hours while the celebs say their two cents. It’s inexcusable and speaks volumes about the organizers’ real attitude towards the participants.
Valley Girl @ 68
Okay, but did Betty Crocker get within thirty-four feet of curry? :)
Your reference to the “fringe Left” brings up and issue for me. How is it that O’Reilly, Hannity, Limbaugh, et al never refer to the Left without usin the adjectives the adjectives far, looney or extreme? I always find it amusing that Hillary Clinton and Nancy Pelosi are described as being on the far Left. If these two women are far Left/extreme liberals where on the continuum of “Leftdom” do folks like, say, Che Guevara or Fidel fall?
In addition to demanding a return to the correct name of the party..That’s Democratic, not Democrat, thank you….I think these jokers should be called on this little linguistic trick. Either that or we co-opt the tactic and never refer to the Right without the adjective extremist.
I think the fact that celebrities get so much of the media focus and the Vietnam vets and Iraq vets and military families, who were also there and made powerful statements, are virtually ignored by the cameras, is intentional on the part of the media and contributes to the “far lefty” fringe conception of it.
But if 75% oppose the war, and we write letters to the eds and our congressmen, sign petitions, donate to the appropriate causes, campaign for anti-war candidates - and still feel that nobody is listening, the little people are at a loss as to what else to do next except make a noise, take a stand, be seen, maybe heard, maybe not. The end result is that you will be mocked, scorned, dismissed, villified or all of the above. That’s just the second & third parts of the Ghandi plan! I like to think it means, we’re making progress.
Will it solve anything, one damn thing? I don’t know. But I think many want to relieve their conscience that they have done something, when all else they have tried has failed.
susan @ 85
Susan- for me it was just a means to an end (possible scholarship) at the time. Your chem lab experience sounds great. The only reason I won (I’m sure) is that I happened to find a old, old, volume at the local library that went into details as to “how to win the Betty Crocker contest”, which I devoured with great interest, goal in mind. Actually, the advice was pretty hilarious, and I knew it was “just not me” even at the time. More later, about how this helped me get into grad school…
Other successful marches - the 1930s (I think it was) farmers march on Washington. It all depends on who is doing it, how many, and what the issues are.
If this were only about oil, or the rapture, or Bush’s dad, or armament sales this Iraq mess would all be over (the troops would be home). But with it being framed as an issue of the preservation of Is*ael means it is a very hard nut to crack, and there is real opposition (by some who otherwise would be anti-war) to concluding this war without a particular impact. This is what makes this war so VERY different from Vietnam.