
A reader has written in to clear up some of the mystery around polonium-210 for us.
Firstly, Po210 does not require a reactor to be made, in fact, it doesn’t need to be made at all as it is a decay project of natural (not depleted or enriched) U238. I could, given an hour and a hand written procedure, actually teach you how to chemically separate Po from Uranium. I used to do it for a living.
Secondly, Po is a very very strange element. It is a chemical analog of Oxygen, but is a metalloid (somewhat like mercury) It has very low vaporization points and other strange properties. When it gets into the body, it targets oxygen bearing materials, particularly the blood and bone marrow. Because of size differences, it does not cross the alveoli wall in the lungs as well as oxygen does.
Thirdly, Po not only because of chemistry but because of it being radioactive, has a very strange way of moving places. Here is a story, believe it if you want. The early atomic weapons used Po210 in detonators. That Po was separated at a place called Mound in New York state, and then shipped to Los Alamos to be made into 'urchin' detonators. The Po would be separated, put into a steel container about the size of a pop can, which was then welded shut. The steel can would be picked up with tongs, and dipped into molten lead. The whole was then allowed to cool, the tongs were cut off, and the whole placed into another can, sealed, placed into a box and shipped.
The box would arrive at Los Alamos and half the Po210 would be gone….
They would find the rest all over the box, the can, the truck it came in, the driver. Polonium is the most aggressive moving radioactive isotope. To get Livitnikov to inhale this stuff would be very easy, just get some anywhere on his body and he would be internally contaminated. When I used to work with this isotope, it would move against air currents, it could not be contained, in fact, we had to have a ridiculous number of safety procedures in place to deal with the threat of loss of containment and even then we worried. We worked with this stuff only in glove boxes, and then in full protective gear besides. 100mgrams placed on his lapel would contaminate everything he touched and anyone he saw. A point to remember is that the button man is probably also very very ill, or dead by now too...
First, I have to say that this kind of information just makes my toes curl with geeky delight. It really is sort of out of my area, being an infectious disease nerd, so to me atomic science is all exotic and shit.
(Uh. Mah. Gawd. I just used the phrase "infectious disease nerd".)
This point might explain the presence of radiation in the planes:
A point to remember is that the button man is probably also very very ill, or dead by now too...
Once contaminated, a person apparently excretes radiation in their body wastes, so the traces of radioactivity in the BA planes could well have been found in the lavatories and sanitary equipment.
Reader MarkusQ indicates that I may be totally flying blind in terms of nanotech:
You are way off base on the nanotechnology connection. Colloidal chemistry, maybe. But if someone had molecular nanotechnology (bottom up) there would be a heck of a lot better ways to use it to kill somebody than this.
–MarkusQ
You think? John Long seemed to think it was an option in the Salon article. It's a little spooky in what it means in terms of weapons technology, but it could have really interesting implications for the future of nuclear medicine, that is, if the technology ever becomes public and is used for less nefarious purposes.
But anyway, this is my theory as it stands: I believe the polonium was inhaled through a loaded pack of cigarettes, which would get it past the gut-transfer barrier, although it doesn't account for the extreme, rapid lethality. People have died of polonium-210 inhalation before, but from what I understand, it's a gradual, slow-moving death. Medical specialists, feel free to sound off in the comments, but it usually manifests in the form of leukemia, doesn't it? And all of this hinges on Litvinenko being a smoker. If he wasn't, then we're back to oral ingestion. It would make sense, though, that the guy he met for lunch could have been exposed through second-hand smoke, as well as Litvinenko's wife.
And yes, all you righteous non-smokers may now chime in about the dangers of second-hand smoke.
Grumble.
UPDATE: In the comments we were just discussing that if someone other than the Russian government is doing this, they're not just sending a signal to the Kremlin that says, "We are framing you for these murders," they're also saying, "We have access to your nuclear chemicals."
Or someone's nuclear chemicals. Otherwise, why not use ricin again or just a gun?
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TRex…
whew!
All hail Polonius Rex!
fitz
Free speech
Justice
and other assorted archaic values.
If this is getting on y’all’s nerves, tell me. I’m just kind of fascinated with this stuff.
This is getting weird. I don’t know, but if I wanted to off someone, it seems it would be a bit simpler just to use a gun. Why use such an exotic method like polonium?
Balrog! You’re still here. Yay!
TRex, I’ve listed to this story and read bits in the paper, but these two posts of yours have me intrigued.
I mean, why not just use an untraceable gun or a more common lethal poison? Why THIS chemical element? What’s the message that’s being sent? I feel like John LeCarre or Charles McCarry or Alan Furst should be plotting the book as we type.
Oh please keep it up TRex. It is truly fascinating.
TRex !!
TRex, I am fascinated with it.
I grew up near Los Alamos, during the Cold War.
This is very interesting to me.
TRex goes all “Science Friday” on us…
martha @ 8
Yeah, something about this story is really cold. There’s some kind of kabuki at work here, or they would have just found him shot in an alley. Which again raises the question for me of why the Putin administration would risk this kind of wildly public execution.
Somebody is sending somebody a major message.
button man?
button man
“Infectious disease nerd”–that’s me. I work in public health.
At present my work takes me to a country where such intrigues are the daily bread.
Really it’s very simple. Problem? Kill your enemy. Problem solved.
Our paradigm–Problem? Ask the housepet media to write some new soviet propaganda vilifying liberals. Problem solved.
Or kill some people in other countries to make yourself look powerful.
It’s so easy when you have all the power, as long as you don’t care about the lives of real human beings.
/rant…for now. I’ll be back.
Stratfor theorizes that it si more of a Gang That Couldn’t Shoot Straight Special Ops thing.
I have a co-worker from Russia whose tales of systemic incompetence and corruption never fail to astound me.
This tale fits right in.
TRex…I read somewhere (your previous post?) that there’s quite an argument going on among spies and those who think they know Putin that it’s NOT him, but someone who wants to make him look very very bad. That kind of fits actually. He’s one cold SOB and it would take this kind of one-up move to be able to say, at minimum, “I’m checking your king” Mr. President…
thanks TSF
TRex @ 5
Nerves? Please! We’re all starting to glow.
It’s possible the Russians aren’t involved, or that they, along with others, are involved. Did the victim perhaps perp this onto himself?
I’ve been trying to remember the PBS show, possibly Frontline, about the russian killed (also in London) via umbrella with ricin(?). In that case, it would have been just as easy to use a knife or gun.
I don’t think it would have been a smart move by Putin. (Although events in the last remaining super power the past years have really showed the important role of stupidity in history - something Marxists tend to overlook.)
Rogue element within Russian security services (siloviky?) makes more sense.
egregious @ 16
egregious, you know more about Russia than any of us, what does your intuition say about Putin’s culpability. Is he that cold or is someone sending him a message?
Another thing that occurred to me is that if someone is doing this to frame the Russian government, they’re also saying, “I have access to your nuclear chemicals.”
I may update the post to include that possibility.
egregious @ 7
Thanks to you and others. And a hit of Celexa every morning.
Balrog @
3
with soundtrack by Polonius Monk
Balrog @ 25
I’m a Zoloft man myself.
Glad you’re back.
TRex @ 5
If Sarin is getting on your nerves, try a Polonium Enema. EvilDrPuma (aka Uncle Ernie) at your service!
Celexa, Zoloft?
TRex @ 27
Me too. And way to show your flexibility and ‘mile-wide’ writing talents to those maroons who would pigeon-hole you.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 29
Selective Seratonin Uptake Inhibitors. Prozac to the MSM.
the umbrella murder
Interesting stuff, but frightening.
Are we getting worse, or are we just better informed about how bad it is? Or mayby it’s just me getting old and cynical.
It used to be that the stories of assassinations/murders carried out at the direction of heads of state were reserved for fiction/mysteries or “uncivilized” nations, but of course, we never did those things, because we are civilized and we would never vote for a President who was a murderer, right?
But today it seems to be commonly accepted that heads of state, including our own President, give orders to have people murdered. Lots of people. If you don’t believe that, think about the order Bush gave at the beginning of the war in Iraq to bomb the various buildings where Saddam was thought to be hiding, even though our people knew there were lots of other innocent people around. Not only was it accepted that one head of state could murder another head of state, but it was okay to murder anyone who just happened to be in the area. If you can murder a head of state, why squirm about murdering other people, like all those Pakistanis in the same building where the al-Qaeda’s #2 (or #559) was supposed to be meeting. After that, we go after weddings and funerals.
So yeah, Trex, this is really disturbing, but not for the reason you suggested.
Yesterday, I went to United Nuclear because they had been in the news as a source that was selling Polonium 210 over the net. What I found was a disclaimer that said you would need 15,000 doses of their isotope at a cost of nearly 1 millon dollars to equal the dose received by the Russian spy. Then they said something I thought was really stupid:
In comparison, Amercium-241 is a similar toxic Alpha radiation emitter.
Instead of a half life of 138 days like Polonium-210 has, it has a half life of over 450 years. It is far more toxic - and there is 10 times more than the ‘exempt quantity’ amount in every smoke detector in your home.
So now you have to worry about being murdered by whatever is in your smoke detector.
Jim Montague formerly known as “brainfaht”
Balrog @ 25
We have a little subgroup of fdl for those of us with emotional/mental illness. Wellbutrin here, and a bunch of stuff in the past. Welcome to the club. Much much more at my humble blog where politics and mental health become intertwined.
Madsen was speculating yesterday that Russian (dis)organized crime figures via Poland. egregious #16 Yes, soccer games go ‘boom’.
Not at all, TRex. It’s morbidly fascinating. Besides, the MSM won’t ask what we want to know.
Unfortunately there’s the truth, minus what they know, minus what they want us to know, minus what we get and understand, times disinformation-squared. There is a TON of information on this which we are just not privvy to. So this could drag on for years.
BTW: Anderson Cooper will have a nerfball investigative special on this on Moday at 10:00pm, and will have Sanjay Gupta providing softball medical information on the poisoning as well. All in all, I’d opt for the NewsHour on PBS, but now you know.
Po 210 is an Alpha emitter. Normal radition that most people run into is Gamma. This is the stuff that lead shielding is used for. Neutron shields are materials that contain high Hydrocarbon content - Polyethelene, polypropylene, etc. As the polonium breaks down into its daughter products, Gamma is given off. That’s why the lead shielding.
Radiation damges the human body by ionization. In terms of cell tissue that would be like stirring the inside of the cell with a stick. Can you say scrambled eggs?
While true that alpha particles cannot penetrate more than a piece of paper, when placed next to living tissue their affect in terms of ionization potential is 20 times that of Gamma.
I am not that familiar with Polonium, but based the article your reader wrote, containing the element itself would be a major problem. This stuff is tremendously lethal.
Not sure if this was covered in the earlier thread, but this is an extreme example of what a “dirty bomb” would do, meaning that the threat of a dirty bomb is more fear-mongering than anything. No need to actually use a bomb to spread radioactivity.
The idea of a dirty bomb is that a conventional explosion is used to disperse radioactive material over the blast area. It’s not a nuclear explosion in any sense of the word. The contamination depends on the type of radioactive material and the length of exposure. Polonium has to be the nastiest radioactive element I’ve ever read about, because of its similarity to mercury. With something like Cobalt-60 you’d have to carry it around for a bit to get a lethal dose. (This happened to a Chinese farming family a number of years ago, who found some Cobalt-60 in their well and kept it because it looked nice. Speculation is the material was from a failed satellite.)
Anyway, it seems this Cold War-esque spy versus spy use of Polonium is a much scarier proposition than some bogeyman dirty bomb scenario. All of these contaminated areas the British are finding shows how uncontrollable Polonium is.
Shame on the Bush government for fostering terror instead of fighting it.
Margot @
32
Thanks, Margot!
That was exactly the link I needed for my update to the post. You read my mind.
Lest anyone get freaked about this new poison, my guess is the risk is equivalent or less than:
a) Cyanide
b) Hemlock
c) Rat Poison
d) Hostess Twinkies
e) Reading ‘Unhinged’
So it’s a new poison. So what? If anyone wanted you dead they’d have stopped at Target to pick up the goods.
Not sure why they chose Polonium; it seems counter productive to dose a pack of butts with it before running away so you yourself doesn’t die at the crime scene.
We always just brushed a little hash oil on our ciggies. And we always got better.
Balrog @ 31
Dear fdl readers, if you need these meds, take them with your head held up high. There is no more shame in taking psyc meds than taking diabetes meds.
Would anyone get away with saying, oh, you don’t need that insulin! Just try to go without. Or pray and you won’t need your insulin. Or you are depending too much on your insulin. I have diabetics in the family so this analogy works for me.
TRex I am not ignoring your question. Am thinking. Always hated those timed tests in school, despite doing well. Much better to take the time to get it right.
from first Polonuium thread:
Oklahoma kiddo @
41
alpha mail
It’s looking more like the spooks over at www.TheSpyWhoBilledMe.com were right, that it was a bungled job. They just posted an update from tomorrow morning’s London Telegraph quoting a senior government source saying, “the picture of the killers that was emerging was closer to bungling assassins than cool James Bond-type killers.”
punaise @ 43
BOOOOOOOOOOOO!!
I have a B.S. in Nuclear Engineering with a focus on Radiation Health Physics. Still, I don’t know squat about Polonium, and find this thread to be quite fascinating. Thanks for writing about this T-Rex.
How in the hell does the Polonium penetrate the steel container? Creepy creepy stuff. And why did the assassain choose polonium of all of the possible Mickeys that they could have slipped Litvinenko.
egregious @ 7
If I may provide a warning to all of US, never ever ever move from the SSRIs to the Benzo class of drugs. Damn near killed me this summer.
PS Heard about the Xanax diet?
Take four in the morning and food falls out of your mouth all day.
oops. Off to mod. I said Xa**x.
TRex @ 40
That reminds me,
PeteCO says:
December 1st, 2006 at 3:53 pm *
TRex says “If the Russian government wanted to take down an enemy, don’t you think they would do it in some less public and spectacular way? Is this a message to other enemies of the Putin regime?”
Someone is sending someone a very clear message. It’s not like we haven’t seen this before. Anyone here remember Giorgi Markov?
” September 7, 1978 (the birthday of Todor Zhivkov), Markov walked across Waterloo Bridge, which crosses the River Thames, and was waiting at a bus stop on the other side, when he was jabbed in the leg by a man holding an umbrella. The man apologized and walked away. Markov would later tell doctors that the man had spoken in a foreign accent. The event is recalled as the Umbrella Murder.
Markov recalled feeling a stinging pain from where he had been hit by the umbrella tip. When he arrived at work at the BBC World Service offices he noticed a small red pimple had formed and the pain from being jabbed had not gone away. He told at least one of his colleagues at the BBC about this incident. That evening he developed a high fever and was admitted to hospital where he died three days later.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgi_Mark ov
Balrog @ 47
Everybody refresh.
And I second that e-motion about the benzo class.
I find your two posts fascinating, TRex.
This was a bit of news that I caught sorta out of the corner of my eye, but didn’t have time to pursue. Thanks for doing that. Also, it’s great that a reader weighed in with further info, which you highlighted in your post. And, that others have added their own info.
Please don’t apologize, TRex- all this learnin’ stuff, and research, is what makes it great to be at FDL. Very thought provoking.
So what if yours or anyones speculations are wrong? I doubt we’ll ever know the truth… but still, I’ve learned a lot that I didn’t know before… millionaires in Moscow eg. so at least next time I read a story about this, I will be coming to it with a more informed viewpoint.
dannyM @ 45
cause they could and had access to it and what better way to spread terror and intrigue?
guns and bombs are so ordinary. ;(
Professor Plum did it in the billiard room with the ice pick.
Ok weighing in now. Yes a message is being sent. Of course the deed could be done in complete silence. The rightness or wrongness of this act beyond the obvious I will not argue here.
Consider how we would feel if we had a collapse of our government and society in general and nearly everybody lived in truly desperate poverty for many years. Then it became known that 8 people had taken over nearly all the natural resources of our country. Then the FBI and CIA tried to restore the previous balance of power. That’s kind of what we are seeing. ymmv
And btw 1/8 of the national wealth can buy a lot of PR in Washington. Just saying.
Ditto here.
Olbermann went with it as his second story and your coverage is better.
I really liked your question to egregious, does the evidence point to Putin in her opinion? If not him, who?
This is real life CSI on the geopolitical stage.
Also on display is the staggering talent that FDL routinely attracts. You got it started and then at least one reader, MarkusQ, extended all of our understanding, because you posted his email. It reminds me of when we we heard DeadEye shot Harry. Suddenly, all these bird hunters, immanentize, for example started telling us about hunting in TX. I had no idea FDL had so many card carrying members of the NRA. When Alan Simpson, (member of the Iraq Slow-Learners Group) said it was Harry’s fault that DeadEye shot him in the face, FDL readers knew first from the threads, that was
bullshitwrong.was Cheney in London recently?
and that’s SSRI (not SSUI)
punaise @ 56
ROFLMAO
Mad Dogs @
20
in the dark
I believe it was Dick Cheney in the face with the pistol.
punaise @ 55
Not if he’s got any sense.
egregious @ 54
egregious, if you have the time or the inclination, would the blogs in Russia even discuss this, or would that be too dangerous?
The 1978 Markov incident reminds me of something I read at the time (or saw in a film?) that talked about using compressed air in an umbrella or a small blowgun hidden in the sleeve, to fire a needle-thin dart with some deadly poison on the tip. The dart would feel like a small insect bite, the dart would fall out and probably never be seen by the victim, and the poison would be in the body to do it’s work. Creepy.
And I agree that the terror this death would cause to anyone else on the hit list would shut more than a few voices right up.
egregious, I truly admire the work you do for the disenfranchised all over and in Russia, but Putin is former KGB and that country destroyed much of Afghanistan and her people long ago…
that trail of tears and blood leads to Moscow.
Cold: yes of course. Otherwise wouldn’t have any power. People WANT this in a leader. They wouldn’t be so positive about him otherwise.
Framing the government: no.
More on the poisoning of secondary subjects in this Mercury News article.
it was Scooter
(Mary, Queen of Scoots)
angie, there are many sides to this story. I will just leave it at that.
TRex @
5
Honestly, it’s fuckin scary but keep on wid it. Knowledge is power, man.
Remember when the President Elect of Ukraine (Vicotr Yushchenko) got poisoned by dioxin a few years back. He recovered, but was disfigured in the face and skin.
What was that all about? Did they purposely try to not-quite kill him? Why not a lethal Mickey instead of a half-assed dose?
marksb @ 62
There was an episode of Poirot that used such a blowgun, the victim thinking it was a bee sting.
OT Egregious, have you heard of HR?
Let’s see if Sir Clusterfuck the Paranoid quits huggin Russians….
Hey Clusterfuck- we need an update on Pootie poot’s soul- how’s it hangin?
About three weeks ago I saw the PBS Secrets of the Dead: Umbrella Assassin. Quite interesting. Lots of similarities between Markov’s assassination and Litvinenko’s.
angie @ 64
And we have destroyed what’s left of Afghanistan and Iraq. Yay us??
Let’s hope the next generation can get it right. We’ve supremely f*cked up.
By the way- has anyone seen an article or teevee show FAVORABLE to Clusterfuck lately? I don’t mean somethin that says- “He ain’t quite as stupid as his critics make him out ta be”-
I mean something that actually PRAISES him? I haven’t. Maybe I just missed it.
Balrog @ 72
You will need to be more specific.
“Trail of Tears”. Many long years ago some in my family made that trip. A more apt name would be trail of shame.
egregious @ 77
http://www.healthrealization.com/
You’re welcome, TRex. ;)
Puppethead at 39,
I wonder about this. What if the North Korean government (or some other govt) were involved in this, and were trying to make it look as if Putin was to blame?
What if they wanted to warn the US and the world that this is what they could do, if they wanted to?
Can we take a poll of Poirot fans vs. Marple lovers? I adore Poirot, but Miss Marple is my favorite.
I’ve always wanted to write an Agatha Christie style mystery that takes place in south Georgia.
I would call it, “Assault and Flattery”.
JC at 62, this is below the radar of the blogs there. They are trying to reclaim their country from the depths. People are dying by the hundreds of thousands from perfectly preventable causes. People are being killed for random reasons. It’s all just how things are right now. People of good will are trying to put one foot in front of the other and just get on with their lives and hope that things will get better in the future.
egregious @ 75
yes we did do that and much more ;(
rwcole @ 76– maybe, but I don’t watch faux or listen to rush, prager, etc.
puppethead @ 74
That was the show I was trying to remember. I was thinking it was Frontline - which is why I couldn’t find it. Thank you.
Russia’s organized crime element is loaded with ex-KGB types. I haven’t read a lot about the Russian “Mafia,” but I wouldn’t be surprised if they had their version of Murder, Inc from the 1950s. The “bungled assassins” bit from Genghis @ 44 is probably right on. The umbrella murder was one of the more sensational hits but the NKVD, later KGB, loved the exotic out-of-country kind of stuff. That the gangsters have picked it up to intimidate journalists and nosy Interpol snitches is no surprise. Although from the looks of things it wasn’t a clumsy assassin so much as a rank amateur. And the button man is almost certainly toast if we now have all these bystanders glowing in the dark. Really interesting stuff, TRex, thanks. A murder mystery spy thriller. Far out.
In honor of aids- GW Clusterfuck says “ABSTINENCE is the only sure solution”
Thanks fer that Clusterfuck- now go wash yer hands an finish yer lunch- an no playin with yer food this time.
rwcole at 7:08 pm
NO, me neither.
As you probably saw, Gen. Barry McCaffrey and David (biggest leaker in DC) Gergan on Hardball were
bodyslamming Bushand only Bush for not talking with the Syrians and the Iranians.IMHO, their body language and demeanor were unlike anything I have seen before. They were clearly extremely frustrated with Clusterfuck. IMHO, he’s losing the GOP.
If my plane “crashes” then you will know that I have hit a nerve. I have tried to serve God in all possible ways and of course fail daily. But I hope the work I have done will stand the test of time.
egregious at 7:11 pm
Thanks very much.
The good news is that there isn’t much in Afghanistan to destroy- ceptin fer people that is.
Egregious, if you wanna take this offline try juddDOTbrownATcomcastDOTnet.
John- Yeah I did see it. Gergen especially seems to be at the end of his rope lately- he’s given Clusterfuck some cover up until now- but at this point he’s about convinced that Clusterfuck drove the bus into mortal danger and is pretending that he’s a tour guide…
He actually seems scared shitless about what may be about to happen- and realizes that the idiot Prince will just take two more pills and sleep til morning.
Balrog @ 91
That’s right TwistedMartini, Judd Balrog.
I still laugh about that exchange… Bp
Oklahoma kiddo @ 78
Deepest apologies Oklahoma Kiddo.
Prison Camps and the Trail of Tears, a recent diary at Kos.
May be my imagination- but aren’t there a lot less “W/Cheney 04″ bumper stickers ridin around with the SUV brigade?
Miss Marple, Hercule Poirot, Jane Tennyson & Prime Suspect are just wonderful!
Love the britcoms, too.
Especially “As Time Goes By”.
rwcole- Afghanistan really was a hauntingly beautiful country once where all people and religions (and Buddhas) were respected and cared for.
(there’s unexploited oil and gas there too, just in case dubya or cheney is reading this.)
OK kiddo– I am sorry for your ancestors.
TRex @
81
Enjoy both equally, although the blow gun one was a weak Poirot. Like Poirot because those books go out and and about in the “world” that was, more. But, like Jane for her perspicacity and nosiness. If you’re looking for a style to emulate, JM is timeless. Poirot, not so much. But, anyone would have a hard time matching the seamlessness of any Christie plot.
oh, edit p.s.- go for it, TRex!!!!!!
Even them cute little W04 things seem to be gettin scraped off at a fevered pace.
Did see a fresh one today:
“I don’t have to like Bush to love my country”
Angie- I suspect it’s still beautiful- I haven’t been there- but not many BUILDINGS- or CITIES.. What WAS there either got blown ta shit by the Russians- or blown ta shit by Clusterfuck– stone age beauty now.
rwcole @ 100
true, that. The Afghan people are the beauty now, and they are worth saving.
John Casper @ 94
The people thank you.
kiddo.
angie @ 96
Thank you.
kiddo.
TRex, I’m fascinated. You’re a damned engaging writer chameleon. Yeah, I’ll have another.
TeddySanFran, ’bout to pour a single malt.
Gotta MaCallan 15 or a Glenlivet 12. I like my doubles “up”.
If you’ve never had a single barrel bourbon, I’d join you with either a Booker’s (120 proof)or Blanton’s (93 proof). Those are better as snowcones.
Anyone else.
Go Southern Miss! I took the 5.
Genghis @ 44
Ooohhh…that’s a very funny lady! Ta for the link to a good blog!
No I’m not. I’m a theropod.
Balrog @
31
“Re-uptake,” right? Isn’t it SSRI? Don’t you want your brain chemistry to leave your Serotonin there long enough to let the nerves un-jangle?
My wife did the Zoloft. My jaw still aches from all the extra servicing necessary for the ‘normal’ nuptials. Nasty stuff, but it gave her a brain a long enough break in the grind to get her mental feet back under her. Truly scary stuff.
Yes! Hell yes. I’ve noticed it here on the northside of Atlanta. And this is the pancreas producing the bile in belly of the beast. These losers have no conviction.
We can win them over with ATTACK! ATTAACK! ATTAAACK!
For all ya’ll in the south, kick a conservative in the nuts tomorrow!
rwcole @ 95
!