Sources said Schumer has agreed to Senate Majority Leader-in-waiting Harry Reid's request that he stay on as head of the Democratic campaign committee for another two years, partly to counter the growing influence of liberals like Sen. Ted Kennedy and Rep. Nancy Pelosi.
Reid and other party bosses believe Schumer's middle-of-the-road strategy in recruiting a fistful of moderate candidates to knock off GOP incumbents in red states is the only way for Democrats to hold onto or increase their power.
"You have to save the party from not drifting too far over," Schumer told The Post yesterday.
Officials determined the best way for Schumer to play that role is to stay on as the head of the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee until the 2008 elections, a decision the Brooklyn lawmaker committed to yesterday.
I was on a blogger conference call with Harry Reid the other day. He asked what structural, organizational improvements the Senate Dems could make to improve coordination with the netroots activist community. I told him it was not a matter of structure: we share enough email lists together, and our thoughts are pretty much there for all the world to see online, 24/7. I told him instead it was a matter of trust. He didn't much like that answer.
But just to give him a bit of background about why I say trust is an issue, let's talk a little bit about his DSCC Senate Dem consigliere, Chuck Schumer. Here are twelve reasons not to trust Schumer, in no particular order:
1. Discouraging grass roots Paul Hackett over Sherrod Brown, even though we generally like Brown (there is a bad taste over his Military Commisions Act vote, and some seem unable to forgive him).
2. Selecting Casey as a cautious pick in PA against the weak Santorum. Casey is good on economic populism but has the minority national view on choice.
3. Working against Tester in the primary, before getting on the bandwagon in the general election.
4. Propelling the weather vane opportunist Harold Ford in Tennessee. We understand that TN is TN, but Ford was just not someone we could rally around (because he campaigned against us), and we do not accept the notion that we must try to be kinder, gentler Republicans to win in traditionally red areas (see Tester).
5. Chuck refused for the longest time to talk about Iraq, and told us we should not do it, though we were right. We don't esteem his strategic judgment.
6. Chuck sits on the board of a neocon think tank. We feel this compromises him on Iraq and Iran, and in general, on matters of military adverturism and foriegn policy.
7. Chuck, when he has spoken to us, speaks to us with barely veiled contempt, or so it comes across. He sees us as a media conduit for his grand strategy, and we just can't be controlled that way. We're not Limbaugh or Fox News. It's not any personal disrespect that rankles: it's his basic contempt for grassroots voters whose efforts he later trumpets as his own victories.
8. Chuck went AWOL and became livid on Judiciary when Feingold pulled his censure thing. I understand Feingold was freelancing, but he was also propelling an aggressive accountability agenda when Chuck and the DSCC were doing anything but. Our base wanted an aggressive accountability agenda, and on the politics, the results this week proved us right.
9. Rather than build a gracious public narrative acknowledging all the work done by the grassroots and the netroots, including, for example, the massive GOTV calling (7 million calls!) done through MoveOn, Chuck went on a PR offensive (with Rahm) to take all credit for the election's gains, weaving in a "conservatives won, not the liberal base" narrative. He threw us under the bus. The NY Post article above is but one example.
10. Chuck and the DSCC were at war in public with the DNC in a way that weakens the party and which failed to give sufficient credit to Dean's 50 state strategy after the election. Chuck comes across as a very planful egoist and not a team player, and one who fundamentally believes he knows better than grassroots voters do.
11. All this, and I have not even gotten to Lamont. The DSCC only offered to send email for Lamont under duress, late in the game, after being called out in front of party activists. They abandoned Lamont: more of those behind the scenes details will be coming out very soon. Chuck's contempt for the grassroots has been nowhere more evident than in the Lamont case (we'll hear more about Harry Reid, too when those stories break).
12. Chuck's donor base is heavily weighted to the NY downtown financial heavyweights, and we strongly suspect he won't be good on middle class or working people's issues, as in the Bankruptcy Bill.
I realize there's a lot of pushback online in the last day or so to do kumbayah in the party, to paper over history. Even Markos penned a front page post that implied some in the netroots are trying to claim the campaign committees did nothing at all of use in this election cycle, which just isn't true, at least, not around here. Howie Klein makes a post-election case I'd personally endorse here, though we've also done quite a bit of our own writing right here at FDL.
This may seem like infighting, and in a way it is. . . but those of us from the Roots aren't responding in this fight to make a dollar. We get no payment out of this. All the financial incentives are on their side (a problem to address another day).
Instead, we're fighting the post election narrative the DC/K Street Elitists are promoting because it's a lie about what happened in Tuesday's election designed to disempower you, dear reader. We fight this fight so you can get the credit you deserve. If we can successfully fight their false narrative, they have no public justification to sell you out over the next two years.
We're fighting this fight because you showed up and made things happen Tuesday, and as your allies, we're using our online platform to hold the Democratic Party accountable to all of us, the voters who made Tuesday's victories happen.
Stay tuned. . .
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I was going to do something lighter and goofier, but some Blondie talked me into doing this.
Don’t you love Blondie?
Pach!
Thank you for turning the light on Schumer, Rahm’s accomplice in the Senate.
How many elections do we have to win to throw the damned megacorps off our backs?
(and who needs to lose the next election to hurry the outcome?)
The tide is high but
I’mthey’re holding onPachacutec @
1
(guilty pleasure…)
Did Senator Reid really ask Schumer to stay on for the reasons stated in that article?
Excellent work, as usual. You thought of twelve really good reasons not to trust Chuck. Just in time for X-mas. Up with people and down with megabuck corporations and their lobbyists.
Lindy:
If the reporter is to be believed, yes.
Thanks for the honest truth, and for confirming my worst suspicions. How can we fight back?
Holy shit. Grassroots, netroots. We’re citizens. And we want accountability and a DIFFERENT agenda.
OK - I’ve been for a spot to get this off my chest and what better space than on the thread about trusting Schumer.
Short and sweet. Dean is NOT the problem. Dean is the answer. I’ve given more money in this season to local/state candidates AND CANDIDATES not in my own state! I’ve given more money to ‘the party’, PACs - nationally & locally because of Howard Dean, and Harry Reid, whom I like, than in my entire lifetime as a Democrat. Chuck Schumer, Rahm Emanuel, and anyone else who pushes to get rid of Dean won’t get shit from me - period. It was Howard Dean who got me excited about politics again, not Schumer, not Emanuel.
And for the record, as much as I like ‘Big Dawg’, I won’t vote for Hillary. She tries to be someone for everyone and it just cannot be. She’s not herself and if you can’t be yourself then I’m not interested because you can’t be trusted.
I’m out west, Idaho, to be exact. While it may not look it our races were quite competitive. Locally in my district, the Demos won. Statewide it was tight. A nutcase Rethug is coming to D.C. after squeaking by a political ‘newcomer’. (This Rethug is convinced of the tie between breast cancer & abortions. He’s not much of a science man.)
The message has to be how the Democratic party can be the party that helps the working class, and the middle class, and not promote or subsidize those in our party who are more interested in consolidating their power. Because Schumer & Emanuel wouldn’t be anywhere without the voters. At least, Howard recognized that and thanked them.
Hubris, boys. Hubris.
That was supposed to say - “I’m been looking for a spot….”
IIRC, I believe that Harry Reid is an anti-choice, tell women what they can do with their bodies kind of guy. Like others on our team, Reid has also had a bit of a backbone problem.
1. Discouraging grass roots Paul Hackett over Sherrod Brown, even though we generally like Brown (there is a bad taste over his Military Commisions Act vote, and some seem unable to forgive him).
2. Selecting Casey as a cautious pick in PA against the weak Santorum. Casey is good on economic populism but has the minority national view on choice.
I’m not so sure those were a bad call. Hackett dropped out way too fast, as in, something we don’t know about. Plus, he made a bonehead accusation that Bush did coke, according to reports, on Hardball. That was just dumb, IMO
As far as Casey being personally against abortion, who cares? Does that translate to a vote for a potential wingnut Supreme Court Justice? I don’t think so.
Well done Pach, respectful, vigourous dissent.
FWIW, one of the bellwether issues imo is Campaign Finance Reform, eg. publicly financing all National elections. If the Vichy Dems don’t fight for it, I have serious questions.
OK, now we have excellent reasons to counter Chuck (and Harry.) Great post, Pach.
What’s the plan? Anyone have ideas of things we can do, or steps we can take to throw our considerable decentralized weight around so we can make a difference—and yet not get involved in a Dem war? (Wouldn’t the Right just love that!)
We are not going away. We are realists and that is why we embrace a progressive stance. There are too many things that need addressing.
Schumer and Emanuel cannot stop this movement. Too many citizens want solutions that work for all not for a few.
marksb @ 15
It seems to me that one priority is to cover Howard Dean’s back. Make sure the state reps responsible for determining who heads up the DNC are all pro-Howard.
IIRC Harry last won in NEVADA by less than a thousand votes. New York, CT, CA, and DE are much bluer than NEVADA, so I reserve my harshest criticism for Schmuer, Hillary, Lieberman4Lieberman, DiFi, Biden…. I think if we pressure Blue State Dems, the Red State Dems will follow.
Those boots in that Blondie video were made for walking!
Taking back America should not be party exclusive! There are plenty of creeps in the Demcratic party, people who would willingly sacrifice the public trust they have been granted for filthy lucre. Let’s not make the mistake of allowing those corporate-owned Democrats to swindle us (Dean I think is one of the good guys).
One of these days these boots are gonna…Hey how come Deborah Harry never did a cover of that song [or did she?]
I wouldn’t even say it is about the grassroots getting credit. Plenty of people thanked me for my efforts, and I have the happy glow of virtue besides. :-)
What scares and infuriates me about Schumer et al. trying to change the narrative is much more practical: I don’t want us to go back to sucking. We have been there and done that with the DLC/Repub lite scene. I think Harry Truman was the one who said that if you give people a choice between a Republican and a Republican, they will vote for the Republican.
Other than Clinton (and he didn’t have much coattails), we have been on a nasty losing slide for a lot of elections. This mild mannered, go along to get along stuff just doesn’t work! We *lose*. And then we lose some more.
It is true that my natural tendency is to want to be upfront, take the fight to our opponent, and exhibit pride in our views. But if the other way worked, I might try to swallow my objections and let the pros have their way. But it doesn’t work.
What I am having trouble understanding is why Schumer et al. can’t see that their way doesn’t work. I don’t truly believe that they want to lose or that they don’t care whether they win or lose. But damn, they sure act like they don’t care.
One way to demonstrate that we have Howard Dean’s back is to donate to the DNC on November 17th - Dean’s birthday.
PS - pics from Lamont campaign on my photo blog.
Emma Anne, I think they’re still listening to people like Carville.
I hate it when I’m right, that we have not a moment to waste to establish we were part of this.
I still think we’d do well to systematically collect FDL/Kos/etc stories and pix of campaign help on the ground, into a “portfolio”.
But the very fact that on the day afer the big victory, we were (correctly) worrying about how we’d get played in the aftermath, demonstrates clearly that there’s a trust problem.
Kathryn in MA @ 21
Loved your pics. Reminded me of all the hope we had for Ned and what a terrific man he is.
Pach….
good post
I wonder what it will take for the entrenched power structure to take us seriously….
Lamont should have been a lesson to them but they didn’t listen….not a bit…..
hizzhoner…
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought it was supposed to be government of the people, for the people, by the people. The tubes allow us to make our voices heard in a way that heretofore was not possible. Chucky needs to wise up, pronto, or he might get a visit from the primary fairy (assuming he’s running again).
Dr. Dean gets it. Chucky is SO pre-internets.
Propelling the weather vane opportunist Harold Ford in Tennessee.
Uh, you might wanna take that one up with the voters in Tennessee, since they voted for him. Or do they not count as grassroots?
Oh, we have his number, alright. And we’re starting to get Harry Reid’s as well. We are not radical lunatics. We are rationalists who aren’t clinging to any particular ideology. But they are trying very hard to paint us as the lunatic fringe because now that they have achieved their goals, they think they can jettison us.
Think again guys. The genie is out of the bottle.
And no matter what asinine crap Lieberman throws tomorrow on MTP, we are not going to let up. Joe does not repreesent anyone but himself. He represents craven pandering, hawkish misbehavior and an unprincipled approach to so-called bipartisanship. It has nothing to do with parties and everything to do with personal integrity.
Schumer has a lot to fear from us.
Too late to stop us.
grayslady @
22
I think you are right. What I don’t get is why?!
Bill Withers - Use Me
(begins at the 4:00 mark)
Emma Anne @ 29
My gut tells me it’s all about Hillary. I think the Big Dawg is advising Hillary and suggesting she use his same team. Also, Hillary and Schumer are tight. I always suspected that Clinton’s meeting with bloggers was solely to feel out the netroots reaction to Hillary–assess the opposition, if you will.
I have a feeling Teddy’s seat (uh, 79% I think this time) is safer than Chuck’s.
I hope Ted is a thorn in the side of all these blue dog goons.
Ticket for ‘08? Hillary/Chuck.
Lemme punch that ticket.
marksb @ 15
The DLC sort have the edge with money - the megacorps will invest unlimited amounts.
This isn’t to diss Blue America and Howie’s wildly successful drive. Their triumph shows how powerful targeted spending is - with the best candidates.
But since the DLC is likely to have greater access to bucks, I’m thinking of our strengths.
I’m trying to identify OUR edge.
We* make and shape culture.
Sometime back one firepup commented they’d heard “EPU’d” in a very high-power setting far afield from the Lake.
The EPU meme is a part of culture.
WATB and “The Kiss” and so much more have sailed off the Lake, away from the rabid lambs, and into greater use…
In a media-driven world of limbic persuasion, culture makers have leverage.
As does FDL….
And that comes from the wonderful people I meet here and the community they have built.
[*Actually - YOU fdl’s make culture. My culture-making is confined to a bit of the fridge.]
I think you just coined a new term.
That Blondie vid…rips!!…fuck chuck
Here, here! The frame of the election will shape the agenda, so we need to get our’s out there. Let there be dissension between the faction of the Democratic Party.
To take the Kos approach, Schumer has his strengths, but it sure as hell ain’t strategy or agenda. Let him raise money, but keep him out of the way of the movement.
So what we have then is a monumental struggle for philosophical control of the Democratic party? Is it Progressive, liberal, center-left vs. DLC?
grayslady @ 31
Which goes to show just how arrogant they are. I haven’t spoken to even ONE committed Democratic voter who thinks that HRC won’t be anything other than a GOP win in 08. Surely they know this. They do polls, don’t they?
hamletta @ 27
I’ve always liked Harold Ford. He’s sincere, credible, and a master politician. He’s far from done in Tennessee, or?
I just don’t agree with most of what he says, he crosses my personal limit, which is pretty big (tent) ; )
Really though, he’s a nice guy, IMO.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 36
Yup. Personally, I like Dr. Dean’s term of “people-powered”. Covers all those independents and cross-over voters.
3. Working against Tester in the primary, before getting on the bandwagon in the general election.
He did? The scurvy dog! The man’s a neocon in neocon’s clothes. What more do you expect?
OMGawd. I just read the word, “Hillary” in a comment above. I’m getting the cold sweats, shakes and cramps. I must be strong.
grayslady @ 17
Pach - I think this is your best post ever.
Lindy, that would be great. I found a list some time ago, but it was a bit confusing as to exactly who in my state had the say so.
Wordsmith has the right of it as far as I’m concerned. And I’m already sick of the bi-partisan meme. Here’s my plan and it calls upon the Democratic majority to do one simple thing.
Realize that it is past time to Stop Playing Games!
It would be good for the country and good politics.
If Chuck and Ramit and Pelosi don’t get it. We will get them. It’s that simple.
It will be interesting to see which, if any, of these ‘power brokers’ attend YearlyKos 2007.
I doubt that any of ‘em besides Reid have the spine to do so. If they do you can be sure…
I will give them a piece of my mind.
And I won’t charge them for it like Carville would.
We must get anti-virus protection against the spread of the DLC, their cohorts and subversive sympathizers. These folks are insidious. Seriously; the DLC has got to be dealt with.
Great post [and the soundtrack from Witchblade?]
Good points, Pach.
And now for some blunt talk. Let’s begin to face a basic truth: Dem supporters of the war in Iraq are either Jewish or Jewish-sympathizers. Very simply, every Arab or Muslim killed is one less Arab or Muslim enemy of Israel. Understanding that they would support the war is not rocket science.
Remember, to borrow a phrase from Atrios, the Reps have their lizardbrains, but Dems do, too.
The real issue is the willingness to use our military men and women as guinea pigs in service to ignoble goals and to me, another one of those ignoble goals besides oil is doing Israel’s dirty work.
It is the abuse of the troops that irks me.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 37
We are the center.
We are pro-family, pro-community, pro-school, pro-child, pro-senior.
We want strong schools, healthy air food and water for our children, and good housing for our neighbors.
We want our grandparents to be happy and comfortable.
We want working people to share good schools, safe neighborhoods, and work opportunities with every other American.
We are the center.
The myth that caring about neighbors, grandmothers, children, and those who need help is EXTREME is deliberate megacorps propaganda.
The megacorps crafted this myth before Agnew resigned. The megacorps had to spend fortunes for decades to gobble enough media bandwidth to fool some Americans into believing the myth - but only some, and only for a while.
And the megacorps have failed.
WE ARE THE MIDDLE.
The extremists believe they can destroy mountains in Appalachia, economies in Detroit, and childhoods across America all to get the BEST FUCKING INVESTMENT RETURN.
That’s right - if you have to die so someone gets 18% instead of 15% a year on their millions, you croak.
The real extremism says “MY dividend - a dead piece of paper - is more important than YOUR living child.”
We never bought that myth.
And the majority of Americans never did, either.
We are the center - the hearth.
We know better, and always have.
Life is too important to waste for dead coins.
Megacorps have to spend billions every year on ads (and their vehicle - commercial programming) to distract us from this simple truth.
And their ads and flickering blue screens are failing.
Our truth - the truth of our families and communities - our truth is spreading.
From our hearths and hearts.
Out from the center, where we and our families have been all along.
DAMN STRAIGHT.
Pach, the problems we have with Rahm and Chuck are systemic — and they are the very same problems that undermined Dean’s primary run.
Yeah, I know; Dean was a newbie, made some bad moves in his campaign (like relying too heavily on the internet when ground game was needed). But the entrenched old-school powergods in the party actively undermined him, failed to let the Democratic voters make up their own minds. In my state, for example, the powergods got to the unions’ leadership and played some serious head games with the rank-and-file on how they approached the primary. Dean’s lack of a ground game hurt him because there was no push back against this effort.
But that’s exactly what Dean learned and assimilated into his 50-State Strategy; he now knows that there must be a full-time presence in the field, on the ground, here in the neighborhood for the Democratic Party, so that the voters are better educated and better motivated and are not as prone to manipulation. He learned something and applied the learning successfully.
Rahm and Chuck, however, are still playing like it’s 1999. That’s one more reason not to trust them. They still think that enough money will do the trick, that a handful of key races with candidates selected by acclaim rather than by democratic process will be successful.
Unfortunately, we still have a number of local parties that are also operating with the same stale worldview; they still don’t understand the relationship between netroots, grassroots and voters. (netroots = grassroots with internet access = wired voters) But this past week’s victories are bringing home the truth like a blunt force trauma to the head with a cluebat. The local union powergods recognized the contribution we net/grassroots-voters made through our sustained activism; one of them actually admitted to me that the unions were slow and late to the game and they should have listened to us.
Yeah. Kind of angry-making, hollow and bittersweet victory, hearing that while watching a state senate seat union-friendly candidate lose by a mere 500 votes, knowing that the unions rejected flushing out voters in a handful of precincts.
We have no choice but to continue to engage in an asymmetricparadigm shift in our party. Call it a generational change, or unrestricted internecine warfare if you like, but we must continue to clean house from both the top and the bottom. We are breaking through in the field with unions and non-activist voters, but we obviously need to remove the rot at the top.
(Not to mention that a rather high percentage of the leadership in question are too easily bought and manipulated by a faction that has an excessive amount of control over our foreign policy and our national politics…)
One way or another.
Forget center or left how about good government! If the Dems don’t acomplish ANYTHING BIG left, or center then whats the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Sheesh! at least Newt thought big end the war, national healthcare for all citizens. Make government work, maybe the center can’t get over the beating Hilary took on healthcare and thats why they have NO BIG IDEAS OF THEIR OWN! So of course they try and stop us from going over the cliff they went. They need to find some stones and DREAM BIG. and maybe we should be a bit more cautious…. about following center democrats to scared to dream!
Pach - great post! We need to remain very clear about our goals and the importance of defeating the Elitists … very clear since it’s easy to slip into “we got the majority” and forget why we want it … and why we got it.
Maggie,
The blunt talk is a bit too blunt.
This phrase makes me very uncomfortable. I do not agree with it. I believe it is inaccurate.
I find the term “Jewish-sympathizer” to be objectionable, with very dark echoes.
I comment here oftern - too often of late. I would not comment now save for the fact that my silence would be assent.
I do not assent to the quoted phrase.
Pach, I don’t know if this slipped through the cracks in your most excellent post, but you didn’t ask us to SPOTLIGHT!!!
So any particular parts of the MSM that you’d like us to hit, or will all of them suffice?
If all, then let’s divvy up the targets to ensure we hit them all.
Again, Ta for the most excellent post!
No worries, Kirk, just using “shorthand” for individuals who support Israel with the same intensity as some of those of the Jewish faith and ethnicity do.
Sorry to whore, but please check out my Balrog Brother (w/glasses) doing his Simon and Garfunkle Revu. It is scary how good they sound. Recommend if you don’t mind? Thanks.
Simon and Garfunkle Revu
I’m a humanist. That makes me a sympathizer of all people.
Anti-semetic statements are unwelcome here.
simple centrist values:
Grassroots anchor suburban lawns.
grayslady @ 45
Here’s the link to the roster. Warning: pdf file.
Lindy, don’t see a link. I’m cool with PDF, but thanks for warning.
I affirm njr’s and kirk’s comments.
There is an element of truth to maggie’s comment, in that AIPAC and related organizations have wielded too much influence on key figures in Dem leadership.
But it’s not because of a nationality, ethnic or religious group.
It’s because of a particular political group with a specific perspective: the Likudniks. We end up making far too many decisions based upon this group’s perceptions and not upon the aggregate perception of this country and its allies in the greater global community. One specific political faction in a small country encourages us to overextend ourselves militarily and economically to their ends, and not to the long-term benefit of the American people or their allies, and frankly, not even to the long-term best interest of the political faction in question.
Look at it this way: how do the outcomes of the Iraq War benefit the nation of Israel, specifically the Likud Party?
Is it in the best interest of the American people to sustain the Iraq War for the benefit of the Likud Party? for whatever benefit there may be to the nation of Israel? for any of our allies or partners around the globe?
What does the rank-and-file Democratic Party member think about this? is it a different viewpoint than that of the Dem leadership in question?
I realize I have made a controversial argument. I did it on purpose, because I think supporting the war in Iraq because of one’s feelings about Israel is wrong, even if one is a democrat. Choosing candidates to field in elections based upon support for the war because of a perception that it helps Israel is really irksome.
Let me clear; I support Israel, but not enough to send my co-workers kids to Iraq to potentially be killed or maimed for life.
Jeepers. Is L*kud a key word that gets one locked in moderation??
Shumer,Hillery,the bid dog,all, are the high-dollar whores who are used to keep the the Dem’s in line with the old wealth of this country.Meet the new boss,same as the old boss.The one dif. I see this time is the blogs and net…who are completely outside the the existing power structure and represent TRUE democracy…which scares hell out of old wealth….Where this country needs to go @ this incredibly critical time of our nations life is not where this old guard will lead…its the same trail bush and co. was…but kinder and gentler..kirt has it nailed…
Pachacutec @ 59
Please.
I believe all of us here are quite clear that the Iraqi and Lebanese wars are disasterous for Israel, as well as all the other countries in the MidEast. and i say this as a Jew.
I need to hit the hay, but I’d be curious to hear Kathryn’s response to my comment at 63 — if it comes out of moderation.
Here’s the roster!
Kathryn in MA @ 67
I agree completely.
I’ll stay up, too, and try to reply intelligently, Rayne. PS thank you for your service.
Thanks, Lindy. I bookmarked the list. Will review tomorrow.
Pach, agreed. I know the Sunday talk shows are going to make me want to grit my teeth.
At the same time, and not to be too Pollyannish, if we can take heart in something, maybe it is this: The politicians you are talking about are hacks, and more and more Dem voters–even the ones who aren’t into blogs and activism–seem to know it. I don’t know anyone lately (and I mean my friends who vote Democratic) who can stomach the Bidens and the Schumers any more–so–maybe–our battles won’t be as uphill as they once would have been. Of course, the last ones to get it will be the media, and that will be a big part of our battle.
As for Maggie at 49–I find her comments as she expressed them offensive, unwelcome, and off base. (Pach, looks as if you already have it covered at 59. Thanks.)
Maggie, i think the Neo-cons are using Israel (in their effort to destabilize the MIdEast), not the other way around (Israel using the US).
Israel will soon realize they have been manipulated to horrific ends.
Okay, Pach, you tell ‘em. Over and over. This is excellent and deserves wide SPOTLIGHT. Oh, and a word on that, folks — it’s up to us commenters to remind one another about SPOTLIGHT. It looks kinda top-down for the poster to end the post with a recommendation to SPOTLIGHT, so we need to encourage one another to do so, not expect the posters to suggest it in the post.
[— Maggie, your 63 sounds much different than your 49. There’s no question that there’s a discussion to be had about the war and reasons to support it, but to conflate religion and statehood (as you did) only makes it harder to understand what you’re saying. I do not endorse your 49 statement, and would encourage you to re-read it in hindsight, although your 63 sounds very close to my views. —]
I would add to Pach’s points #1 and #2 that, given the OH and PA margins, true progressives would have just as much success defeating DeWine and Ricky as did Brown and Casey. We missed an opportunity there. Thanks, Chuck.
Let’s not forget how cavalierly DC Dems and their TradMed buddies treated Cindy Sheehan’s conversations in January about challenging DiFi — as the climate changed this fall, who could say whether Casey’s Mom wouldn’t be California’s next Senator?
Go raise money for our Progressive Revolution, Mr. Schumer. Convince your corporatist board-sitters that we are not crazy, we are TEH PEOPLE. And that we will come with pitchforks and torches if they do not yield. Be the FDR of your Democratic party generation, Chuck — be the bridge between the disaffected and the gotbux. But don’t try to tell TEH PEOPLE what the policy’s gonna be. We’ve got that part covered.
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Who’s Next?
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Greetings from New York State. I think folks may need a reality check.
Chuck delivered the goods. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.
The net roots folks still aren’t able to deliver the goods. Lamont may have won the primary, but he blew it in the general election. He was totally outmaneuvered by a skilled politician while he (Lamont) spent almost a month whining about why Lieberman should quit the race.
Now us liberal dems can be all high minded and ideologically pure — if we’re happy never being in control of Congress. I don’t think that’s real useful.
Chuck Schumer isn’t the anti-christ. And he’s not a neo-con — I don’t care what board he may sit on. Schumer is one hell of a smart guy, however, and a skilled politician. Kudos to him for getting control of both the Senate and the House. Let’s hope for a repeat in 2008.
Harman
http://tinyurl.com/slfp7
Pelosi
http://tinyurl.com/v9znv
Linda –
Lamont’s candidacy drained the GOP of $19,000,000. They swamped him with that money, pouring it into RGJoe’s campaign, depriving the opponents of Senators-Elect Whitehouse, Brown, Casey, Webb, Cardin, McCaskill, Tester, and Senator Menendez of cash that would have changed the outcome. No one did more than NED Lamont to win the Senate for Democrats — not even Chuck Schumer.
It would be wise for Reid, Schumer and Emmanuel to remember that WE are the people, and we vastly outnumber them.
The army ant is one of the smallest creatures in the jungle. But when army ants march together even the fiercest predators get out of the way.
Schumer is a very big neocon and proud of it. He will fight for every single corporate dollar he can, while being willing to fight any country that Israel might decide has to be taken down.
He did his part and the netroots did ours. But at times they were working deliberately to take down good candidates for no reason, other than they were talking about the Iraq war and he does not want to talk about that. Just like Bush. Schumer and Bush have that in common.
And to return to my pet peeve, it was Pelosi who slapped Dean about being evanhanded. Nope, I will NEVER forget.
I posted this to the BlueAmerica thread down below but it may be relevent to this conversation too.
As far as Chuck and Rahm are concerned, I say screw ‘em. Whether we realize it or not, we have the power to exert significant influence on the “narrative” for the next election. Ned Lamont proved that. It ain’t infighting if you simply ignore Rahm and Chuck.
The Lobby
http://tinyurl.com/rgufx
Siun @ 53
So happy this topic has staying power around here. This is really the heart and soul of our struggle. I think many miss the point with Chuckie, Rahmen Noodle, The Clintons, etc. It’s not that they don’t get the netroots or “left-wing” of the DemocratIC Party, in fact, they understand what’s happening very well.
It’s as plain as day and has been for quite some time: these “Elites,” or Corporatists have infiltrated our Party specifically to keep liberals “in line.” From Clinton’s NAFTA and Telecommunication Act of 1996, to the public attacking of Dr. Dean the day after one of the greatest DemocratIC victories of all time, it’s clear they exist only to serve their corporate masters. They do not care one iota about “the little guys and gals.”
Don’t ever forget this. It’s kind of wasted energy to even think about trying to change their minds and understand us. After this week’s elections and the Corporatists’ response, do you need any more proof? I was particulary struck by this line from Pach’s post, and I think it proves my point as well…
“I told him [Reid] instead it was a matter of trust. He didn’t much like that answer.”
Why wouldn’t he like that answer?!? Jeezus. All efforts should be directed to removing these people and replacing them with actual liberals.
It sounds like Shumer is throwing his coat over a puddle for Hilary to walk over. There’s more to this than meets the eye.
TRex decided to come in to the office on Saturday night, and is upstairs with LateNite….
Sherrod Brown is going to be the best Democratic Senator we have. Period.
The Military Commissions vote is the only blight on his record, and according to ProgressivePunch.com, he has a more progressive voting record than Dennis Kucinich.
If you’re going to blame Schumer for being too centrist, which you should, you can’t pin promoting Sherrod Brown as one of his centrist sins.
Schumer, like Leiberman, represents the Corporate Party. That is reason enough to distrust him. I don’t trust anyone who thinks the most important thing in the world is raising money for politicians. Those people cannot even see when they have lost their souls.
The people who support progressive values with time, effort and money don’t want anything from the politicians except their best efforts to enact progressive policies. Why does Schumer want to be a politician? Is there some principle he wishes to enact into law, some overarching goal for our society he wants to pursue? Not that I can see. As our host said in an earlier post, the money party is our opposition, the theocratic party is our opposition, and we have to find leaders to defeat them.
vachon @
85
Umm, only if he’s hiding a giant sink hole that he can push her in.
Chuck and Hillary are not exactly good teammates.
Maggie @ 63
Yikes - Maggie - I support peace for the state of Israel too.
And for the state of Palestine.
And most importantly, for the people of both states, whatever the flags and passports may be.
I learned to talk about this sensitive matter in West LA - home to a thriving and active Orthodox community and a global center of the Jewish diaspora.
One the people I learned from was my former spouse, a very fine person whose father had very few older relatives - they’d been lost in the camps. Her mom’s family had lost some, but had been more fortunate.
My former spouse grew up in Skokie, IL and went to college in Illinois - and then to pursue a doctorate in Middle Eastern Studies.
She considered the State Department.
At the interview, the State Dept folks brought out her dossier - with pics from her at a political rally at freakin’ Southern Illinois University. As an undergrad.
Just one detail - the rally was pro-Palestinian.
The Jewish girl from Skokie who never met most of dad’s family - cause the Nazis killed them - she was for return to pre-1967 war borders and equal rights for Palestinians.
The State Dept. wasn’t terribly interested - even though she already spoke Arabic. As a Master’s student.
She didn’t see much reason to finish the Ph.D. She did stay around to help organize the papers of one of her graduate advisers - who was among the Americans kidnapped in Beiruit and ultimately murdered by extremists.
On the other hand, lots of millenialist Christians ardently support Zionist political ideology and actively seek to fund Israeli military power and conquest.
The Christian millenialists support Israel in the devout belief that - when enough of the impious unbelieving Jews have returned to the Holy Land - they will perish hideously.
The happy result of this heavenly Holocaust - the millenialists believe - is the next step towards the Second Coming.
With all of this complexity in mind, I’m afraid to make assumptions about who supports what act of mercy or violence based upon religion.
Just trying to remember it all disorients me.
(pun embraced, though unintended)
Yes, more true liberal/progressives please. And thank you, thank you. The power of Karl Rove compels you! Jedi mind tricks indeed, heh.
Maggie @ 49:
Maggie your statements could not be more incorrect or more offensive. Although there are some highly visible Jewish supporters of the war in Iraq, they do not represent the mainstream of Jewish opinion in this country. Jews voted 87% to 12% for Dems over Repugs in this past election. I’m not sure what other group in this country has that kind of voting record.
While most American Jews, myself included, absolutely believe in Israel’s right to exist, we probably support the war in about the same numbers as everyone else.
And we probably do have stronger views on the Palestinian/Israeli conflict than most other people do, but that is because it has been part of our lives for decades, going back to long before a lot of that history was rewritten in America to become the truthiness that you now buy into.
Maggie - you make a serious and harmful mistake in your comment. The entanglement of american interests with israeli interests is a significant driver of imperialist policies in the middle east and needs to be called out imho but equating “jewish” religious beliefs or identity with zionist militarism is inaccurate and smacks of antisemitism.
I’d appreciate it if you would reconsider your comment - it is offensive.
Kathryn, that’s what I meant, that the impetus is here, not in Israel. I can’t stand the fact that upwards of a billion people want Israel “wiped off the map” — it is many more than just Iran’s prez. I fully believe that Israel “has a right to exist”, which to me is unbelievable that people even have to make such a statement.
But, when “people” start to behave as though Arabs and/or Muslims are merely expendable, I find it very irritating.
If someone wants to step up and say, “Look, I support the war in Iraq because I believe that all Arab or Muslim Iraqis hate Israel and want it destroyed and I want us to get our licks in first”, at least that would have some honesty to it.
More than this crap about promoting democracy in Iraq.
One thing I will say about Schumer that I support and that is his camera houndishness. He understands teevee as a communication tool, even if he hasn’t quite figured out the internets.
Pach,
The old Chinese saying goes, “He who defines the terms, wins the argument.”
I’m ok with you defining the terms, any damn day!
Make them admit the truth. They think they want a shot at lobyist’s funds. Tell them to go ask Tom Delay how that’s working out for him. We don’t need more like him; not in the Democratic party, not anywhere. Make them tell the truth and make them look at themselves. If they like what they see, and continue, then we really didn’t win anything on Tuesday.
Thank you.
Ignu 87
Thankyou for your comment. I look fwd to seeing him in the Senate. We in OH can finally be proud of at least one of our senators. ;->