Login HereRep. Nancy Pelosi gets her cranky on while speaking on the floor of the House today -- "This bill does violence to the Constitution." So does Rep. Louise Slaughter, Rep. Ike Skelton, Rep. Alcee Hastings and Rep. Doris Matsui. (All are YouTube links, FYI.)
Sens. Dick Durbin and Carl Levin have been exceptional today in the Senate as well -- standing up for the rule of law and the need for habeas corpus and judicial review.
At times like this, I turn to Digby:
By now probably everyone knows that the torture bill that's working its way through the Senate is even worse than the one they crafted last Friday. It's so bad that they are now saying it has "drafting errors" when something particularly egregious is pointed out. One wonders how many other "drafting errors" will wind up in this sloppy, hurried mess. They are rushing it through without anybody knowing what they hell it really says..."Actively assisting Al-Qaeda or terrorists." One assumes that would be stuff such as giving "material support." Like the guy who was arrested for selling Hezbollah TV as part of a satellite TV package. You know the type. (The good part is that rightwing welfare queens are on the case "helping" the government track down these dangerous terrorists. Lucky for us the far right is so level headed, isn't it?)
And then there's this. And this.
I don't know why the Senators are even pretending to know what's in this bill. One of the most important pieces of legislation in recent American history is being put together in the dead of night and hurried through the congress for political reasons. It's a constitutional clusterfuck.
The vote is going to happen and it's going to pass. But I can't help but wonder if the momentum wouldn't have gone the other way if some of the Democrats who constantly exhort the rank and file to be more friendly to religion and values and morals had stood up and said no. Imagine if Barack Obama had staked out a leading position against this legislation making the explicit argument that it is immoral and unamerican to torture. That would have gone farther to demonstrate our respect for religious values than his frequent process talk and scolding could ever do.
Or imagine if Holy Joe Lieberman showed even one tenth the righteous indignation toward this torture legislation that he showed toward president Clinton's personal affairs. Imagine if the great centrist hawk, the man of morals and religious sincerity whom the Republicans have anointed as a principled example of a Democrat who understands the stakes in the war on terror, went to the floor of the senate...
There are a number of Democrats who are standing up as patriots today. Enormous thanks to all of them. Let's take some time to thank them today -- those of you who are watching proceedings in the House and the Senate, please make note of who we ought to thank, and I'll make sure we get that done in the days to come.
And thanks to all of you for being such patriots and calling your legislators as well.
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NANCY!
FITZ, too!
FITZ!
It does violence to more than just the constitution (though this is a great soundbite), it does violence to every single American, whether subject to it’s provisions or not.
Time to start making a new future
Thanks for staying on top of this Christy. You rock.
So do you, Pach. I despaired for a moment.
OT - Lieberman.
Possibly extremely important point about Lieberman’s comment yesterday that he hadn’t read the NIE.
I pulled this comment from comment section of the official Lamont Campaign Blog. I think it needs to be seriously highlighted to the public. Here it is:
“Lieberman, as a member of the Senate Committee on Armed Services had access to the NIE report in April, but did not bother to read it. Why not?”
If it is true that Lieberman has had access to the NIE for months but has not read it (something I have not confirmed) it would be damning evidence that he really only cares about maintaining his delusions of what is going on in the war of terror - not in finding out the truth.
Can anyone confirm that Lieberman has had access to the NIE - prior to the recent leak -due to his membership on the Senate Commitee on Armed Services?
Warner up.
Says that mebbe the legislation will end up in SCOTUS one day.
just got off the phone with a Menendez staffer
short version:
NJ Progressive
“What is the senator’s position on the torture bill?”
staffer
“The senator is not going to take a position on a bill that is still being changed.”
my question
“Is the senator going to condemn torture, and any bill that condones torture?”
staffer
“I’ll pass along your comments to the senator.”
angie @
8
Is anyone following the House debate on C-SPAN?
Louise Slaughter is another heroic one!
(Her floor speech, a real scorcher, is up on dKos.)
Dear God, my heart is in my mouth today.
I promised to do several hours of phone-banking from home today for local candidates, and will do it.
But it’s so hard to be energetic about it when the infrastructure of dictatorship is going up all around us, and the construction crew is working furiously, overtime.
Nicely done, Christy. Warner says the most important thing is to be able to continue this program and get real-time intelligence. I disagree. I think the most important thing in this discussion is to remember who we are as Americans and that we have never in our history of wars felt we needed to consider legalizing torture or removing basic legal rights of detainees. Even Saddam is getting a trial.
I am so sad.
Just so sad. I’m going to go get drunk right after work today.
And then I am going to start taking names. Every single democrat that voted for this abortion, every mealy-mouthed democrat that talked big and did nothing, is now in my line of fire.
Obama’s the first one: I’m particulalrly peeved at this fella who talks so much about morals and values and then hides like a little bunny rabbit when the difficult choices come up.
Robert Andrews is also on the list, Democratic Rep from NJ who voted for the bill, because it was better than nothing. Andrews, your day is done. My entire family is going to work to have you painted as a republican collaborator. You’re fucking done, and going back home as soon as we can retire your ass.
As for the rest of the dems, I am only supporting those who walk the walk. Harry Reid? Motherfucker, you can go to hell. You are DEAD to me now.
Thank you Christy, Pach, Jane, T-Rex, Mary and everyone working this! This is the future of our country we’re talking about. Few in the various intel services want or condone this kind of abuse of power. This is totally CYA for the folks at the top.
No offense to any of her constituents in CA, but I really have lost confidence in Pelosi. Maybe I’m attributing the flaw of the whole Dem leadership to her, but overall she (and they) have been ineffective. These speeches are good, but I want some hard ball action. I’m tired of the Dems in Congress rolling over.
Levin has spoken. He spelled it out, chillingly. There is no excuse, none, for any “Democrat” in the Senate to fail to support a filibuster of this clearly unConstitutional (per Levin) “compromise” bill.
The bill was first put before the Senate today as an amendment to the border fence legislation. Frist and Reid were working off the floor on whether the bill could be put before the Senate as a stand-alone bill or whether (presumably) a hold would be placed by a Democrat to prevent that without 60 votes first being obtained to get it to the floor. I believe an agreement has been reached, but I didn’t catch what it was, because I missed Frist’s comments on the floor.
At any rate, debate will now proceed on the compromised torture bill - some hours’ worth, and five amendments will be allowed. Pat Leahy has been given 45 minutes to speak, and as angie pointed out, Senator Levin will be offering the Armed Services Committee version of the bill as a substitute amendment. Levin acknowledges that the committee bill still has a major problem with regard to stripping of habeas protections, so further amendment will absolutely be required should the substitute bill succeed in passing.
Mr. John Warner of Virginia has now risen to announce, on the Senate floor, his “support” for this violation of our United States Constitution. Shame is far too mild a word to use to condemn these atrocious authoritarian acts, and this naked abdication of the oath of office these public servants took to uphold and defend our Constitution.
Levin introduces the original A.S. Committee bill as a substitute amendment for the compromise bill …
With all of the real problems this country has and these criminals are doing this to stay in power is nauseating. This attack on the Constitution is never going away and will now always be a problem to deal with. Even if every provision is eventually reversed, the fact that it passed a Congressional vote will be the genie that can never be put back. It’s like the first A-bomb test, once theory became reality, it can never go away.
Christie, it’s Doris Matsui, not Helen.
In addition to all of the very bad things this bill does, is the fact that it is, by the uncourageous actions of our Dems, taking the energy out of the Dem base.
I can see it in the comments today.
Very busy. Gotta go.
I have always been proud to be an American. That they are even discussing allowing torture in the US Congress — much less most likely voting for it — fills me with shame.
Thanks for highlighting Digby’s post, Christy. I’ll get in touch with my Senators and Harry Reid again. All of this “me-tooism” — particularly on such an issue — will do more harm than good, politically.
This bill may be even worse than we think it is. According to Glenn Greenwald’s post today at salon entitled “The Intelligence Report Cites “Leftist” Groups as a Terror Threat” the NIE report states “anti US and anti-globalization sentiment is on the rise. This could prompt some leftest, nationalist or separatist groups to adopt terrorist methods to attack US interests.” Glenn writes, “There have been scattered reports over the last several years that the Bush administration’s anti-terrorism programs have targetted domestic political groups solely because such groups espouse views contrary to the administrations’.” The whole article can be reached through glenngreenwald.blogspot.com.
With the definition of enemy combatant and terrorist written so broadly, it is possible that anyone who opposes any policy position of an administration could fall under it. Would the loss of habeus corpus also apply in these cases? I keep remembering Ari Fleischer’s statement during a White House press conference that ‘people should be careful what they say.’ Or is my paranoia off the charts?
Ms. Smith, I would love your take on Glenn’s post on Salon, as you are an attorney. Thanks.
just got an email from the John Kerry list, with the subject title, “This is it”
i immediately opened it with anticipation… finally, a statement in defense of our consititution… it began: “This isn’t a time for rhetoric…”.
yep. another fundraising letter.
not good timing.
At the risk of being OT, I suggest the following for some of the campaigns based on Bush’s use of the straw person, “Some say, ‘. . . .’”
Some say “we’ve got to cut and run from the Constitution.”–I don’t; some say, “The war in Iraq will be seen as a comma.”–I don’t; some say, “We need to extend the powers of the military and our warriors against terrorism by allowing torture.”–I don’t. It is time to specially render those in office who say these things to the facilities they deserve, federal prisons. Thanks to all at the FDL site and those who post such provocative comments.
Levin pissed and now comparing and contrasting the committee and the compromise bill.
The UNANIMOUS Consent Agreement for this UNCONSTITUTIONAL bill:
3 hours for the debate (evenly divided, with 45 minutes reserved for Leahy - regarding his amendment - from the minority’s time on the main bill itself).
The five amendments to be offered:
Levin’s substitute bill (2 hours of debate, evenly divided)
Leahy/Specter/Dodd/Dorgan habeas amendment (2 hours of debate, evenly divided)
Kennedy amendment (1 hour of debate evenly divided)
Byrd amendment (1 hour of debate evenly divided)
Rockefeller amendment (1 hour of debate evenly divided)
pow wow @
26
The fix is in!
Tommy Yum,
If I decided to chuck it all after today’s vote and move to North Carolina and try to be a lucky lazy fellow, would you buy me a drink?
hmmmm, no Feingold amendment…
filibuster coming?
please? come on Feingold and Leahy.
“unanimous consent” to the debate schedule sort of says it all….
seems like levin has done his homework today…
It’s over. The official Democratic position is that torture is A-OK. Their official position is that secret, illegal evidence is A-OK. Their official position is that “evidence” acquired via torture is A-OK. Their official position is that the President is the sole arbiter of who is or is not an enemy deserving of torture (and what actions of torture are allowed by the Geneva Conventions…and even if they aren’t, too bad because you have no authority to ask that in court).
The Democratic party is officially dead to me. They are falling down on THE most important and dangerous bill to ever come before them in modern history. They couldn’t find it in their guts to fight against torture, gulags, arbitrary arrest. That is because they are, to a man and woman, totally empty inside.
I will not vote Democratic in the Fall because I have had enough and all I ever get from the Dems is more of the same. ENOUGH!
Aux barricades!!
nj progressive @
9
Same here, in so many words. Pretty pathetic for a guy trailing in the polls who needs GOTV and other support bigtime from people like us.
If the committee bill was the one Graham and Warner sponsored, then Levin is still floating untethered in the atmosphere because it was a horrible bill standing all on its own.
If there is another one, I’d have to see it. Considering Levin joined to CO-SPONSOR the PREVIOUS jurisdiction stripping bill, that also tried to surreptitiously include some amnesty provisions (the one that was euphemistically called the “anti-torture” bill) I have to say I don’t have faith in his proffer. If there is another, much better, bill that came through committee, I’llhunt for it, but if he’s referring to the Graham Warner bill,that was trash looking for a can.
PS - I don’t know what the Townhouse group is, so I’m sorry if I inadvertently joined in on something pissy, but the bus I thought was being referred to was the Dem party bus.
Pelosi is showing up way late on this and IMO they are just tossing out some words to appease so they can then say “oh, we tried” and if all they can try for is the Graham Warner bill, they are freaking brain dead morons.
immanentize @ 30
does that mean there will be no cloture vote?
please excuse my ignorance…
Brendan @13 –
I am so sad. Just so sad. I’m going to go get drunk right after work today.
——————-
I’m sure I will get drunk after work today too but … I’m not going to give up on the democrats right yet. They are the only bat I have now with which to bludgeon the Republicans. I may have to swallow hard and polish turds for a time but we’ll get that fixed too.
Unanimous consent on the debate schedule? Sigh.
I was getting all happy thnking just maybe, today was the tipping point.
DAmn
I found the text of these amendments proposed by Specter and cosponsored by Leahy. These amendments are attached to the Frist’s bill which covers the formation of military commissions and is itself an amendment attached to the Secure Border Fence Act. Unfortunately, as far as I can tell the page references don’t show up in the Thomas text.
SA 5062. Mr. SPECTER (for himself and Mr. Leahy) submitted an amendment intended to be proposed to amendment SA 5038 proposed by Mr. Frist to the bill H.R. 5061, to establish operational control over the international land and maritime borders of the United States; which was ordered to lie on the table; as follows:
SA 5063. Mr. SPECTER (for himself, Mr. Leahy, and Mr. Smith), etc.:
SA 5064. Mr. SPECTER (for himself and Mr. Leahy), etc.:
SA 5065. Mr. SPECTER (for himself, Mr. Leahy, and Mr. Smith), etc.:
The gist seems to be detainees get one shot at habeas corpus and that’s it. I believe Specter has further amendments which may transfer jurisdiction to a federal court “for the Armed Services”.
immanentize @
27
immanentize,
Why do you think so? You may be right, and scepticism is always healthy with this crew, but is seems to me this situation is still very fluid and unpredictable by anyone, even the admin hacks pushing this abomination…too many moving parts and an election coming up to call this one yet.
Mary @ 35
thanks for this… i was (probably stupidly) looking for any signs of conscience or moral courage.
Haralambos @ 24
To avoid the fallacy of the “strawman” it would be best to use actual statements made by those who should be on trial or serving time.
And where is the notoriously christian, moral, scolding Barak Obama in all of this? Does GOD sanction torture? Evidently he does. I don’t!
It amazes me that they’re making the same damn mistake they made in 2002–making a rush-vote on one of Bush’s ill-considered last-minute bills. Karl Rove really can play the Dems like a fiddle. Memo to Dems: That sound you hear is your base deserting you. There’s no point in voting for an opposition party that is unwilling to oppose.
lhp - it is a tipping point.
I swear to God it is.
It’s a bunch of God Damned nonsense so they can say they made a pretty speech and someone should like them for it.
No true effort whatsoever and I’m furious.
OT..The “base” is getting their marching orders. Hate mail sent to KO’s home contained white powder as a threat. New York post belittles KO for calling 911. pastdeadline.com
Quentin (#43): where’s obama?
at a rally in Maryland somewhere. raising money.
Fucking Coward Obama.
Frank Probst @ 44
And making the other same damn mistake — thinking that somehow if they don’t vigorously oppose something, or even if they support it, the Republicans won’t be able to attack them over it. Their attacks have nothing to do with reality, and even if the vote was unanimous in favor they’d still talk about the Dem speeches today in their fundraising letters.
What the dems should do is stall. Stall till the bill is dead. and then not leave town until AFTER midnight on Saturday.
Let the repubilcaans have an extra day of campaigning, our guys should stay and keep the chamber safe from a last minute bill or ammendment.
Mary @ 45
Absolutely correct Mary. All smoke and mirrors.
Levin just said “the bill before us” is (summarizing) unacceptable, and is giving a list of reasons why.
I am confused. Is he on the side of the angels or not?
Frank Probst @ 44
You’re right, Frank. Playing them for the fools they are. Unbelievable.
Has Feingold said anything? Could he stop it?
Praedor, why don’t you go and take a nice nap so you’re refreshed when the men in dark trenchcoats show up at 2:00am to take you to the rail cars? Or maybe spend your time getting your affairs in order so nobody else has to after you’ve gone to the camps?
‘Cuz really, I don’t see what the f*ck you are doing that is constructive here or in the last thread. Throwing away your vote is useless, as is your whining and puling.
Keep your chins up, Lakers. This bill is a battle; our fight is a war.
We need us to keep morale high amongst ourselves so we can continue the fight.
Wandering through Frist’s bill, I found this and had a WTF moment. So detainees can be tried for torture, but CIA interrogators? Not so much. BTW roughing someone up appears OK. A few bruises are allowed.
Mary @ 45
I should be furiuos, I’m just so freakin’ sad. When is one person in this damn party going to grow a set of balls! (pardon my language) Hell, tungsten steel ovaries would work fine too
I cannot believe it; maybe my eyes and ears couldn’t process that it is a Unanimous Consent Agreement.
this is horrible.
selise @ 23 - I got one of those also, and one from Boxer. Deleted - I’m not donating money to anyone who can’t stand up and filibuster and also stand up and vote against this.
Mealymouthed triangulators. Where are they going, and what will they do when the secret police start disappearing people? Will they say ‘it’s okay, anyone who disappeared was a bad person’?
Still POd….
Balrog - I wholeheartedly agree.
Rayne - Whining and puling are synonyms.
Kak @ 52
WHERE is Feingold? He didn’t even show up at Monday’s Senate Judiciary Committee Hearing on “Examining Proposals to Limit Guantanamo Detainees’ Access to Habeas Corpus Review”
The Leahy/Specter/Smith/Dodd/Dorgan habeas amendment will amend either the “compromise” bill if it holds up, or the committee substitute amendment that Levin is offering (and speaking to now), if it passes.
So the plan seems to be to try to get some Republicans to side with all the Democrats (or else!) to pass the committee bill substitute, and to then also pass the habeas amendment to make that committee bill acceptable. C-Span’s site has the bill language somewhere I believe. The committee bill passed Armed Services 15-9; the habeas stripping would have caused at least some of the 9 ‘no’ votes. I don’t recall/know what the other problems with it were (but remember that Frist threatened to filibuster that committee bill at the time, on behalf of Cheney and Bush, and that is how we ended up with the “compromise”).
selise - A filibuster (by either side) is still on the table.
Balrog, I’m trying hard, but I do get so bloody tired of defeatism.
And the number of battles in which many Dems were asleep is incredible, like The Real ID Act passed in March 2005 (it allows DHS to authorize the AG to suspend all laws to defend our borders without judicial review).
This bill isn’t one of the ones during which they slept, but it’s damned hard to tell what agendas they are working — and clearly, there are folks with agendas.
looseheadprop @ 11:50 am (#49)
If only. I think that if most Democrats in Congress were capable of this kind of sacrifice, this bill wouldn’t have been brought up in the first place. There are a few who are, of course, but there don’t appear to be anywhere near enough.
Uniqely Tim: “They are the only bat I have now with which to bludgeon the Republicans.”
Yeah, but dude, that bat is a Nerf bat. It doesn’t do anything. In fact it’s worse than useless: instead of bludgeoning republicans, that bat tends to hit whoever’s swinging it in their own face.
Steve @ 46
So, let me get this straight. KO gets ahem “anthrax” , nd Fitz gets a bomb scare?
Hmmmm, kinda makes those tin foil hat types who think Bushco blew up the twin towers seem less moony don’t it? Who uses terror to their benefit?
Certainly not Dems.
Not that I think even the source of all evil DarthCheney himself blew up any buildings, but that whole anthrax thing that Condi loves to bring up. We never did solve that one did we?
Oh, and who got intimidated besides Congress? The Media back when they were starting to question the Bush “my Pet Donkey” thing and then Poof! we have anthrax
Which Condi brings up at the oddst times. Still. You would think she would not want to mention it because they never caught anybody and it’s another Bushco failure. But I heard her talking about rcently and thought “how odd?”
EPU — uh, not now, buddy, lessons in semantics are definitely not going to cut it.
As p*ssed off as I am, were in the same room, you’d be lucky if I didn’t hit you with a blunt object.
looseheadprop @
56
As is so often the case, I am completely in line with both of you.
Just guessing, but I think what is happening is this:
Levin will first try to substitute the earlier “compromise” bill, the one before the Administration rewrote the original compromise by negotiating with Hunter over the weekend, so that that original becomes the basis for further consideration. Then each of the other amendments, which try to fix the problems in the original substitute, will be offered and debated.
The unamimous consent refers to how much time the Senate will debate each of these amendments. It is not, (my guess) a decision to limit debate on the final bill, whatever that is after the amendments are considered.
This is still very fluid. We have to hope that some/all of the amendments are accepted by the Senate. That will force a conference committee with the House. If none of the amendments is adopted, then it’s probably game over.
I’m confused now reading the post versus the comments and comments on the debate schedule.
When I called Durbin’s office they told me he was working hard to make sure the torture/anti-habeas bill was amended to ensure habeas and to ban torture. I’ve been pleased with Durbin’s actions on opposing Bush’s dictatorial power grabs and opposing the Iraq War, even if he hasn’t been a rhetorical rabble-rousser he votes the right way.
It sounds like some of the Democrats are doing what they can do to stop this. No? Are most of them rolling on this issue? (I know from quotes it sounds like Harry Reid is.)
Rayne @ 62
I’m as guilty as anyone; I believe I’ve been feeling so flush with all of our minor victories and good polling news that it stings double when things look grim.
But it’s (bill) not over yet. Remember Belushi’s rallying speech at the Delta House. And if this one doesn’t go our way, we’ll redouble on the next.
I hope I’m not sounding Pollyanish, ‘cuz Balrogs are never Pollyanish.
scarecrow:
I do not see any scenario where any amendment is accepted — unless Spector or Collins or Snowe and a few others decide they want to mess it all up.
If it is down to the Dems, it is done.
A question for those who have a better sense of smell than I, but do the comments “If this bill passes I will not vote for a Democrat” have the scent of Troll shit? If not, then I ask forgiveness from those I have offended.
Hi imm. Hi Mary,
we all haven’t been together for a while. I missed you guys.
OT any word on the “bomb threat” at the courthouse today. Did they get an all clear?
You know what gets blown up if the courthouse goes? Even if all the people get out? All those carefully marked and redacted documents. Months of hard work.
selise @
23
yeah I got that too. I called immediately and told them that unless the torture bill is stopped, by any means necessary, the democrats can forget about any money from me.
Today must be “give us money day” because I got emails from Kerry, Boxer, and Obama, and not one of them mentioned torture, or the prevention thereof.
Iyt’s all smoke and mirrors, as someone said. Glenn Greenwald was saying last night that the torture bill is a done deal, and would pass. What we’re watching now is the democrats do a kabuki dance so they can say “we tried” at the end of the day.
but they’re not trying, and thus do not deserve our support.
Brendan - You got a point there. I did try out some out of the independents like Kinky Friedman for TX Gov. but he has gotten into trouble recently for talking racist talk and I had to forego that one. Nonetheless, I will carry on and at least try to get rid of some Republicans _wherever_ and _however_ I can do it. ( legally, of course )
looseheadprop @ 73
I’d guess that more (God forbid) important docs than the Scooter documents would be destroyed.
Just sayin’.
Such an ugly, ugly day.
It must always be remembered. It must be marked in the calendars of Americans for generations to come.
The day torture trumped the Constitution.
What will this day be called? Waterboarding Wednesday? Moral Depravity Day?
A question for those who have a better sense of smell than I, but do the comments “If this bill passes I will not vote for a Democrat” have the scent of Troll shit?
Either a troll or a very stupid person. Sometimes the lesser of two evils is the only rational choice.
angie @ 57
Don’t read too much into that — it’s unanimous consent on how they’re going to conduct the debate, not on the result. (And technically, nearly everything in the Senate except voting is done by unanimous consent.)
looseheadprop @ 11:58 am (#65)
Hmmmm, kinda makes those tin foil hat types who think Bushco blew up the twin towers seem less moony don’t it?
Not really. When you hold to an opinion despite clear evidence to the contrary and no real evidence in support, you’re loony. Q.E.D. ;-)
pow wow and scarecrow, thank you for the help in trying to understand what i’m watching on c-span.
Off topic but Sweet Jesus I hate NPR.
Media Matters beats up on Mara Liason deservedly so. But I just listened to TOTN and their political editor Ken Rudin(sp?). Anyway it turns out that no matter what happens it’s good news for the rethugs. No immigration bill good for republicans, war in Iraq going south good for rethugs.
Oh and they had Katharine Harris on, the host let her spew her crap for 3 minutes and never challenged her on anything she said.
Sending a check to WBAI-FM they run Democracy Now!
Levin’s making it very clear that if we allow torture, our military men and women will be tortured too. We have to protect them.
What a sad day. The senate is actually debating the value and risks of torture.
Completely OT-the CIPA conference to go over all the stuff Team Libby wants to use at trial resumed at 1:30pm (et) according to the WaPo.
I called my senators (Levin is one of them) & my representative to tell them to vote “no”–I told the clerks that the voters will be watching how they vote on this Bill.
Although I know the republicans can ram this through, even without the dems, I do hope they will do the right thing. Regardless of what happens–like Bill said, “At least I tried”…
According to Digby, the Republicans have broadened the scope of whom they may detain and torture without recourse from “anyone engaged in hostilities against the United States” to “anyone who has purposefully and materially supported hostilities against the United States.”
This is extremely disturbing because whistleblowers, journalists who report what the whistleblowers have to say, just about anyone who posts articles on this site, and people like me who post comments could be regarded as “purposefully and materially supporting hostilities against the United States.” Such is the nature of dissent, for God’s sake!
I don’t trust anyone in this administration to draw a distinction between purposefully and materially defending the Constitution and the Bill of Rights by criticizing, demonstrating, and, if necessary, rioting against this criminal administration versus “purposefully and materially supporting hostilities against the United States.”
THIS IS UTTER BULLSHIT. THE REPUBLICANS WILL USE THIS PIECE OF GARBAGE TO DISAPPEAR DISSENTERS INTO CONCENTRATION CAMPS.
According to the article I linked to @83, no, the secured documents were one of the first things to be moved. As soon as they started evacuating the building.
LHP — I have a plan and I need your help (I already talked to Mary). Can you send me a hello at jsjude at comcast dot net?
Thanks….
All clear on the bomb. When I worked for a Fed Judge, I remember the grey pants peeking into trash cans and plant containers. We went to the Judge and said, “did you know the grey pants are looking for a bomb?” He hadn’t yet heard — but the courthouse was very quickly cleared after he did.
Thanks to the many commenters who are helping to bolster our weary spirits. It’s a marathon, folks, not a sprint. We’ve been training for this, but there are stumbles. We will pick each other up, and help each other as we continue. I wish everyone courage. I know we can win in the end.
TheOtherWA @ 12:07 pm (#86)
Anyone else start hearing the Mission Impossible caper music just then?
“We’re here to pick up the secret documents.”
“We just gave them to the last group of guys dressed in marshal’s uniforms.”
Redshift @ 79
thanks, Redshift. I am praying for something unprecedented to happen here since the entire debate on this subject is unprecedented and shameful.
Huckleberry up now.
Mission Accomplished Day!
Rayne - You are right, but I did it anyway.
Balrog @ 70
Balrog my darlin’
If they get the retroactive pardon provision in for the war criminals, we have lost the war.
It’s a stain our collective souls can can never be purged with prosecution of the torturers.
That is what makes me sick. Balrog, all the rest of the bill can be repealed and the world returned to staus quo anti, except the retrocative immunity from criminal prosecution. Even if the law is repealed, the immunity/pardon lives on for those who committed acts between the start dat in 1997 and the day of repeal.
I may have to leave my keyboard to vomit. This is really happening? In the United States? Land of the Free and Home of the Brave?
Sickening. Sickening unto death
brendan @ 74
They are all coming up a aginst a campaign filing deadline and there are bragging rights (and matching funds) that come with itting certain money quotas.
I heard from both Kerry and Bill Clinton today begging for bucks.
none given.
Steve @ 72
no, i think it’s despair. an expression of despair in the pain of the moment. and the more a person is emotionally attached to the democratic party, the constitution and a positive idea of our country - the greater the pain of the moment is likely to be.
i propose we all try to be especially gentle with eachother right now.
This talk of not sending money to Dems. or not voting for a Dem because of the torture vote is disturbing. We are in a back alley knife fight with the Repugs. I will give money to defeat my DINO in the ‘08 primary but will vote for him in the general election. A sad state of affairs. At the moment the two people I despise most are Ralph Nader and Colin Powell. They new better.
Larry Johnson has a letter to Senate Judiciary Committee up that’s worth a look
Link
Imm
Give me aminute to fish out my fdl email address (I think I forgot it)