Fitz!

OLBERMANN!

Raw Story headline: GOP Senators put holds on Bush court nominees… Soon…

Isn’t that approximately when the new Democratic Congress is sworn in? What a perfect time to start impeachment proceedings!

Jus’ sayin’

Fitz!!! Go get em!

Whaaa? NO DISMISSAL? DUUUUUDE!!

Cue the exploding wingnut heads.

-Not a bad thing really….

TheOtherWA—way to go!

From Froomkin,

ABC News last night broadcast more of its interview with Bush last week. Charles Gibson asked Bush about his experience on Sept. 11:

Bush: “There is a fog of war. It was hard to get information. Communication systems were not as good as they should have been. In other words, I couldn’t get information, I couldn’t find out where Laura was, I couldn’t find out, you know, where, uh, trying to get a hold of the vice president at times, I was constantly in touch with him, but they would have trouble getting him.

And then there were those headlights, they were so bright, bright white lights, I just sat there and I couldn’t move and then I then I heard them reading My Pet Goat and somehow I felt better.

When all the ashes clear and everything gets cleared away, which may take decades, I hope we remember Patrick Fitzgerald as the turning point in the nightmare of the past 5 years.

There had been critics of the administration, and there had been protests and disagreements and all kinds of arguments, but they all fell on deaf ears. Fitzgerald, with his extreme professionalism and dogged desire for the truth, was unimpeachable, unassailable by the Republicans. He was unswiftboatable, and as such, opened the flood gates. Now we’ve got Ned, we’ve got Olbermann, and even Matt Lauer seems to have looked into his pants and found his testicles.

Here’s to Fitz– the guy that started the revolution for real!

Christy,
Based on your experience, any estimate on the time between the start of jury selection and start of the trial?

I may have to take the day off and go down to DC for the kick off!

From prior thread

The Chain Gang can be found here:

http://www.backbonecampaign.org/chaingang.cfm

YW, Christy. I may be the only one still checking the various case websites just about every day. It’s a boring task since most of the time nothing happens, but I’m ok with that.

A commenter here yesterday (don’t rememeber who or what thread) said “Fitz fizzled.” It’s really hard waiting for events to unfold in this case, but it hasn’t even gone to trial yet. I reject the “fizzled” phrase. But the truth is, this case isn’t going to satisfy the urge for instant gratification.

You have no idea how much I wish cameras were allowed in federal court, but they aren’t, so we’ll have to rely on media reports and DC locals to pick up transcripts when they’re available for detailed analysis and enjoyment of Fitz skewering these rat bastards.

OT - Bob Iger on stage at Apple event.

OT

Fast National ratings for Monday, Sept. 11, 2006

The conclusion of ABC’s miniseries “The Path to 9/11″ led ABC to a ratings win Monday. Numbers for the night are approximate, as a presidential address marking the fifth anniversary of the 9/11 attacks interrupted regular programming in much of the country.

http://www.zap2it.com/tv/news/.....?track=rss

I’m shocked! The good news is Part 2 was unfavorable to Bush so they say ; )

mmr @ 9

When all the ashes clear and everything gets cleared away, which may take decades, I hope we remember Patrick Fitzgerald as the turning point in the nightmare of the past 5 years.

There had been critics of the administration, and there had been protests and disagreements and all kinds of arguments, but they all fell on deaf ears. Fitzgerald, with his extreme professionalism and dogged desire for the truth, was unimpeachable, unassailable by the Republicans. He was unswiftboatable, and as such, opened the flood gates. Now we’ve got Ned, we’ve got Olbermann, and even Matt Lauer seems to have looked into his pants and found his testicles.

Here’s to Fitz– the guy that started the revolution for real!

Now I understand why they have been sniping at him for the last two weeks. Ever since the Armitage “revelation” (how many manths after emptywheel figured it out?)

They must have been pressing for a pardon (there were a couple of editorials along those lines) and are frustrated that Shrub is afraid topardon before the election.

Now wonder that have taken to attacking Pat again.

The other day the Chicago Tribune said “the guy who clubs baby seals has more defenders that Patrick Fitzgerald” (I’m quoting from memeory, so that may not be perfect).

Speaking of trials, I’m back in Justice Jackson’s summation in Nuremberg. Tell me who particularly comes to mind as you read these three passages . . .

The large and varied role of Goring was half militarist and half gangster. He stuck his pudgy finger in every pie. He used his SA musclemen to help bring the gang into power. In order to entrench that power he contrived to have the Reichstag burned, established the Gestapo, and created the concentration camps. He was equally adept at massacring opponents and at framing scandals to get rid of stubborn generals. He built up the Luftwaffe and hurled it at his defenseless neighbors. He was among the foremost in harrying Jews out of the land. By mobilizing the total economic resources of Germany he made possible the waging of the war which he had taken a large part in planning. He was, next to Hitler, the man who tied the activities of all the defendants together in a common effort.

It was the fatal weakness of the early Nazi band that it lacked technical competence. It could not from among its own ranks make up a government capable of carrying out all the projects necessary to realize its aims. Therein lies the special crime and betrayal of men like Schacht and Von Neurath, Speer and Von Papen, Raeder and Donitz, Keitel and Jodl. It is doubtful whether the Nazi master plan could have succeeded without their specialized intelligence which they so willingly put at its command. They did so with knowledge of its announced aims and methods, and continued their services after practice had confirmed the direction in which they were tending. Their superiority to the average run of Nazi mediocrity is not their excuse. It is their condemnation.

The dominant fact which stands out from all the thousands of pages of the record of this Trial is that the central crime of the whole group of Nazi crimes, the attack on the peace of the world, was clearly and deliberately planned. The beginning of these wars of aggression was not an unprepared and spontaneous springing to arms by a population excited by some current indignation. A week before the invasion of Poland Hitler told his military commanders:

“I shall give a propagandist cause for starting war, never mind whether it be plausible or not. The victor shall not be asked later on whether we told the truth or not. In starting and making a war, it is not the right that matters, but victory.”

[emphasis mine]

Thus, the follow-up wars were planned before the first was launched. These were the most carefully plotted wars in all history. Scarcely a step in their terrifying succession and progress failed to move according to the master blueprint or the subsidiary schedules and timetables until long after the crimes of aggression were consummated.

Some realms pooh-pooh the excellence of German engineering. I guess we should be a little thankful for that . . .

one thing I guess I have to give Bush credit for — so far Sunni/Shia sectarian violence hasn’t broken out on the NearEastside of Indianapolis. I think I live in a Sunni neighborhood but I’m not really sure about that …

From Froomkin and the same wonderful ABC interview,

Bush: Well, you know I tried to get home and the Secret Service said, ‘You’re not going home. Matter of fact, you’re heading to Omaha, Neb., where we will put you in a bunker.’ . . . And it frustrated me because, you know, on the other hand I was able to stay in touch with people, you know. I had enough information to know what was going on. I was making command decisions. . . .

Gibson: [B]ut is there an argument between the president of the United States and the Secret Service — ‘I want to go home.’ ‘No you’re not, Mr. President’?

Bush: Yeah. Yeah.

Gibson: And . . . and the Secret Service wins those arguments?

Bush: Oh well, you know, it was not just the Secret Service, the vice president suggested, others suggested, that it’s probably best to let things cool down for a while, till we get enough information to understand.

See, I was the Commander in Chief and I had the information and I wanted to do some decidering but Uncle Dick, he said, you don’t have the information and he told me to go out and play for awhile, and I did.

1,261 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND …

Citizen Harden Smith:

Anybody heard from Shooter Cheney about how the world looks from under the bus? And, what do you hear from your “little birdies” about Fitz and any continuing investigation…is he holdin’ for the results of the election?

KEEP THE FAITH AND DON’T LET ‘EM INTO YER YARD!!!

Jury selection will probably take weeks because of all the pre-trial publicity. I assume Irving has hired a jury consultant, there may even be motion practice over the questions and format of the jury questionaire.

I had a “big case” back in the day, and we spent weeks wrangling over the jury questionaire and more weeks doing the jury inteviews.

If they expect the trial to go more than a month, they may empanel more than the usual 12 petit jurors 2 alterantes.

I would want at least 6 alterantes if I were Wlaton.

I think I live in a Sunni neighborhood but I’m not really sure about that . . .

*ilson lives on the Sunni side of the street?

Cozumel @ 14

OT

Fast National ratings for Monday, Sept. 11, 2006

The conclusion of ABC’s miniseries “The Path to 9/11″ led ABC to a ratings win Monday. Numbers for the night are approximate, as a presidential address marking the fifth anniversary of the 9/11 attacks interrupted regular programming in much of the country.

http://www.zap2it.com/tv/news/.....?track=rss

I’m shocked! The good news is Part 2 was unfavorable to Bush so they say ; )

The thing about these numbers is they only include broadcast. No mention of cable channels, and wasn’t there Monday night football on cable? They may be accurate, but it’s an incomplete comparison. So I’m not sure what it means.

-ck- @ 20

I think I live in a Sunni neighborhood but I’m not really sure about that . . .

*ilson lives on the Sunni side of the street?

punaise would be proud… or is it 3sivund?

:-)

OfT I thought this was a great comment from prior thread, so I recommented it here.

rwcole says
September 12th, 2006 at 10:42 am*

It’s a mistake for dems in most races to advocate anything specific about Iraq. The way to win is “We need a fresh approach” “We need congressional hearings” “We need to have fresh eyes” “We need to hear from our retired military who can speak openly”, etc.

Dems can take advantage of the Clusterfucker’s mess while staying wise and restrained. Best- it will drive the goopers fuckin crazy.

I’m fully in favor of an immediate and full pullout from the ME, but I think rw’s political strategy going into midterms makes the most sense for a lot of Dems. I would also add to it, consulting with our Allies inside and outside the ME.

None of our forces in the ME meet the requirements of the Powell Doctrine for the use of military force.

OT– Tony Snow just held up a wristband he was given yesterday by some family survivor of flight 93 and is totally dramatizing the preznit’s caring and concern– this in response to an upset reporter who spoke of the preznit being arrogant.

Feingold calls on Bush to stop using the terms “Islamic Facists.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14800287/

scarecrow @ 25

Feingold calls on Bush to stop using the terms “Islamic Facists.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14800287/

YEAH!

nice catch scarecrow.

looseheadprop @ 11

I may have to take the day off and go down to DC for the kick off!

From prior thread

The Chain Gang can be found here:

http://www.backbonecampaign.org/chaingang.cfm

lhp, I got an error on that link, and by the time you see this you have probably seen it several times over. Thanks for the link, by the way.

Belay that. I tried two or three times and finally got it. Must be a lot of people trying to access that information :)

looseheadprop @ 20

Jury selection will probably take weeks because of all the pre-trial publicity. I assume Irving has hired a jury consultant, there may even be motion practice over the questions and format of the jury questionaire.

I had a “big case” back in the day, and we spent weeks wrangling over the jury questionaire and more weeks doing the jury inteviews.

If they expect the trial to go more than a month, they may empanel more than the usual 12 petit jurors 2 alterantes.

I would want at least 6 alterantes if I were Wlaton.

From the wording of Walton’s order, I think that he wants all the wrangling over the jury questionaire done by January 16, 2007, and that that is the day that the court’s officers should have the potential jurors ready to be questioned. In other words, it’s as much an order to the folks who do the jury summoning, isn’t it?

(Never been on the sending side of those . . . just the receiving end.)

Fitz should call David Broder before the grand jury — and then indict him for perjury.

1,261 dayz and the killin goez on and on and …

John Casper:

I also think rwcole is correct as far as he goes but the Dems must be forceful in stating that it is the Chimpenfeurer’s responsibility to come up with the solution to the problem or he must step down…THAT’s accountability and that’s the way Democrats get empeachment into the electoral discussion.

KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, I’M AFRAID WE’RE RUNNIN’ OUTTA CLEAR SHOTS!!!

Newly EPU’d –

Creeping Truth @ 167

looseheadprop @ 128

If you own stock in the MouseHouse or in American Airlines, Shareholders suits could be an option –

Amer. Airl. Shareholders would first press investor relations to sue ABC for damaging their brand. If AA won’t sue, then you bring a shareholder’s action for mandamus to compellthem to sue.

Disney, you just sue as a shareholder.

You would sue management and any employee who has culbability. It’s called shareholder’s derivative suit. The shareholder’s stand in the shoes of management and sue on behalf of the company.

Flash!!

There’s a post up on HuffPo attaching an E&P story about AA thinking lawsuit. Also mentioned there: a follow-up lawyer’s letter from Bruce Lindsey saying the edits to Part I didn’t cut the mustard.

I’d be shocked if ABC doesn’t end its horror by issuing a high-profile retraction. Defamation lawyers nationwide must be saying they’ll eat their tassles if no draft complaint is shot across ABC’s bow, if not filed in court.

What we’re seeing is confirmation of Matt Stoller’s theory of a corporate screw-up, further supported by Max Blumenthal in The Nation.

We often suspect perfect conspiracies behind outrages like PT9/11, forgetting the incompetence factor. But what Mayberry Machiavellian would have gotten it wrong about American Airlines?

I offer, in half-jest, the guess that the advance libel-vetting for this project was contracted out to John Yoo, whose only contact with defamation law is through a fawning familiarity with the Alien and Sedition Act, which he thinks Bush can make the law of the land by fiat pursuant to his Commander-in-Chief power.

Not to mention clean shorts.

hmmm… i’ve been seeing strange anniversaries lately… jan 16, 2007… that’s the one year aniversary of al gore’s speech at the american constitution society on “Executive Powers”.

here’s what al gore had to say that day about “our” fitz:

We’ve had a fresh demonstration of how an independent investigation by a special council with integrity can rebuild confidence in our system of justice.

Patrick Fitzgerald has, by all accounts, has shown neither fear nor favor in pursuing allegations that the executive branch has violated other laws.

for anyone who hasn’t yet listened or read this speech - don’t delay any longer… a dose of truth and hope.

Lindy H

it worked when I clicke on it in your quote.

just put “backbone campaign” in your browser search feature.

Go look at it, it’s a hoot.

RUN AL RUN!!!!!

…IMPEACHMENT (dammit)

mmr @
9

When all the ashes clear and everything gets cleared away, which may take decades, I hope we remember Patrick Fitzgerald as the turning point in the nightmare of the past 5 years.

There had been critics of the administration, and there had been protests and disagreements and all kinds of arguments, but they all fell on deaf ears. Fitzgerald, with his extreme professionalism and dogged desire for the truth, was unimpeachable, unassailable by the Republicans. He was unswiftboatable, and as such, opened the flood gates. Now we’ve got Ned, we’ve got Olbermann, and even Matt Lauer seems to have looked into his pants and found his testicles.

Here’s to Fitz– the guy that started the revolution for real!

And here’s to James Comey, the guy that told Ashcroft he had to recuse himself and selected Fitzgerald.

NorskeFlamethrower @ 38

…IMPEACHMENT (dammit)

CHIMPEACH!

:-)

scarecrow @ 26

Feingold calls on Bush to stop using the terms “Islamic Facists.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14800287/

feingold comes through again!

i love this bit:

At a news conference, Townsend said, “What the President was trying to capture was this idea of using violence to achieve ideological ends - and that’s wrong.”

does this mean that bush is going to stop killing people in order to ’spread democracy”? i can dream, can’t i?

IMPERCH!

lhp @15, I went looking for that ChiTrib article you referenced. A New Light on CIA leak scandal.

It’s good.

The revelation [of Armitage as one of Novak’s sources], it [WaPo] said, shows that “one of the most sensational charges leveled against the Bush White House–that it orchestrated the leak of Ms. Plame’s identity to ruin her career and thus punish Mr. Wilson–is untrue.”

But the logic here is the equivalent of saying that because I am chewing gum, I cannot possibly be walking. All the evidence indicates there were two separate courses of action that exposed Plame’s identity–one attributable to Armitage and one to people in the White House. That Armitage was guilty of carelessness does not mean Libby is innocent of malice.

And this:

It will take a trial to establish Libby’s criminal guilt or innocence. But the bulk of the evidence indicates that people high up in the White House did seek to punish Wilson by unmasking his wife, and that the vice president’s chief of staff did his best to conceal this effort from the special prosecutor.

For that evidence, we should thank the much-maligned Fitzgerald, whose sole sin is doing his job conscientiously. But the only people who are grateful are those who put truth and accountability above their own narrow interests. And in Washington, that may be a party of one.

At FDL, there are lots of us who appreciate what Fitz is doing.

Yay! Someone in the media gets it! Woohoo!

TheOtherWA @ 21

Cozumel @ 14

OT

Fast National ratings for Monday, Sept. 11, 2006

The conclusion of ABC’s miniseries “The Path to 9/11″ led ABC to a ratings win Monday. Numbers for the night are approximate, as a presidential address marking the fifth anniversary of the 9/11 attacks interrupted regular programming in much of the country.

I’m shocked! The good news is Part 2 was unfavorable to Bush so they say ; )

The thing about these numbers is they only include broadcast. No mention of cable channels, and wasn’t there Monday night football on cable? They may be accurate, but it’s an incomplete comparison. So I’m not sure what it means.

Very true. Those numbers are extremly low

Peterr @ 30

looseheadprop @ 20

Jury selection will probably take weeks because of all the pre-trial publicity. I assume Irving has hired a jury consultant, there may even be motion practice over the questions and format of the jury questionaire.

I had a “big case” back in the day, and we spent weeks wrangling over the jury questionaire and more weeks doing the jury inteviews.

If they expect the trial to go more than a month, they may empanel more than the usual 12 petit jurors 2 alterantes.

I would want at least 6 alterantes if I were Wlaton.

From the wording of Walton’s order, I think that he wants all the wrangling over the jury questionaire done by January 16, 2007, and that that is the day that the court’s officers should have the potential jurors ready to be questioned. In other words, it’s as much an order to the folks who do the jury summoning, isn’t it?

(Never been on the sending side of those . . . just the receiving end.)

It depends, there would have been a conference before the order was issued. The lawyers have more deatiled info from that. If, for example Wlaton said, I’m going to be away at a conference until Jan 15, so let’s start jury selection on the 16th, the wringling could just be getting started the.

If Wlaton said, “Make it work people” cause we start on Jan 16th rain or shine, then he expect all the motions and the crybabying to be over by then.

Can you tell I’m a “project runway” fan?

I’m still waiting for the mobilization call, and the call-up of not-ready-any-more reserves unit I’m in, given the fact that the safety of America and the survival of civilization depends on winning the battle for Baghdad. When will the next round of editorials pounce on that one?

While we’re waiting for general mobilization, which should come at any minute now, Glenn Greenwald does a number on the right wingers who have been consistently wrong, still giving us foreign policy advice, and this time in the WaPo op-ed page. My favorite (of several) paragraph:

But as always with Iraq and terrorism debates, being endlessly wrong is a sign of profound seriousness, and cheering on wars — no matter how misguided and misinformed the cheering is — renders one a serious foreign policy expert who recognizes the serious threats we face in these very serious times. That’s why, when The Washington Post wants to find someone to counsel us on its Op-Ed page as to what to do in Iraq, it turns to two of the Wrongest People in America.

He’s referring to Rich Lowrey and Bill Kristol, who in an op-ed in said we need to send more troops to save Baghdad.

http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.....html#links

If you haven’t F5′d lately, please do, then check out Justice Jackson at 16 ^ (shades of der Chimpenfuhrer indeed).

At the end of the judges order is this sentence:

ORDERED, as set forth in the Court’s February 3, 2006 scheduling order, that proposed voir dire questions and jury instructions shall be submitted to the Court by November 13, 2006.

All the arguing about juror questions will be settled before Jan. 16th. Sounds like the judge isn’t wasting time. I like that. :)

John Casper @ 24

I’m fully in favor of an immediate and full pullout from the ME, but I think rw’s political strategy going into midterms makes the most sense for a lot of Dems. I would also add to it, consulting with our Allies inside and outside the ME.

None of our forces in the ME meet the requirements of the Powell Doctrine for the use of military force.

I agree. The Bushies have been so stubborn and inflexible, it’s clear the only way to get change is to throw the GOP out. The situation will be different by January, so there’s no point in getting into specifics. They have to defend their “strategy”; once we have some people in power, then they can ask us to defend ours.

And the answer to wingers’ constant carping of “you complain but you don’t propose any ideas” is “why do you keep demanding we produce ideas? Don’t you have any of your own? And by the way, ’stay the course’ is a slogan, not a strategy.”

With the recent disclosures concerning Valerie Wilson’s reason d’etre at the CIA (Iran), does anyone else think they were going for a twofer, maybe…Both Wilsons?

TheOtherWA @ 42

lhp @15, I went looking for that ChiTrib article you referenced. A New Light on CIA leak scandal.

It’s good.

The revelation [of Armitage as one of Novak’s sources], it [WaPo] said, shows that “one of the most sensational charges leveled against the Bush White House–that it orchestrated the leak of Ms. Plame’s identity to ruin her career and thus punish Mr. Wilson–is untrue.”

But the logic here is the equivalent of saying that because I am chewing gum, I cannot possibly be walking. All the evidence indicates there were two separate courses of action that exposed Plame’s identity–one attributable to Armitage and one to people in the White House. That Armitage was guilty of carelessness does not mean Libby is innocent of malice.

And this:

It will take a trial to establish Libby’s criminal guilt or innocence. But the bulk of the evidence indicates that people high up in the White House did seek to punish Wilson by unmasking his wife, and that the vice president’s chief of staff did his best to conceal this effort from the special prosecutor.

For that evidence, we should thank the much-maligned Fitzgerald, whose sole sin is doing his job conscientiously. But the only people who are grateful are those who put truth and accountability above their own narrow interests. And in Washington, that may be a party of one.

At FDL, there are lots of us who appreciate what Fitz is doing.

Yay! Someone in the media gets it! Woohoo!

You guys amaze me. This is probably THE fastest research capability I have ever seen.

After Election Day, when we have time to catch our breath, we should maybe discuss virtual “think tank” possibilities.

For now, we gotta stay focused on Election Day.

Not for nuthin’, I think it would be very nice if Fitz got some good thoughts beamed his way. Anybody who’s good at prayer or similar feats, maybe take aminute and say a little prayer (or non religious equivelant) for the big man in the rumpled suit.

scarecrow @ 46

I’m still waiting for the mobilization call, and the call-up of not-ready-any-more reserves unit I’m in, given the fact that the safety of America and the survival of civilization depends on winning the battle for Baghdad. When will the next round of editorials pounce on that one?

Yeah! If this is really the war for the survival of our country why should we keep you in power when you’re screwing it up so badly?

Mommybrain @ 48

With the recent disclosures concerning Valerie Wilson’s reason d’etre at the CIA (Iran), does anyone else think they were going for a twofer, maybe…Both Wilsons?

Mommybrain–exactly right.

TheOtherWA @ 46

At the end of the judges order is this sentence:

ORDERED, as set forth in the Court’s February 3, 2006 scheduling order, that proposed voir dire questions and jury instructions shall be submitted to the Court by November 13, 2006.

Could be. If the two sides can’t negotiate a joint set by 11/13. They will each submit their pown propsoed set and then the motions begin.

I suspect you are right though, that Wlaton will keep them on a short briefing schedule, so he can actually swear in the first panel of venirmen on 1/16

All the arguing about juror questions will be settled before Jan. 16th. Sounds like the judge isn’t wasting time. I like that. :)

I’m sorry, but did that “executive order” giving him presidential powers to classify and declasify ever turn up?

I don’t think so, somebody please show it to me

Alison @ 51

Mommybrain @ 48

With the recent disclosures concerning Valerie Wilson’s reason d’etre at the CIA (Iran), does anyone else think they were going for a twofer, maybe…Both Wilsons?

Mommybrain–exactly right.

Just might be

I’m tight for time at work, but I think I’ve moved from pissy depression to angry - the heart of angry, the reason you use it in the definition of all those fancier and fluffier terms.

I knew Graham would cave and McCain and Warner. As much as I get furious with the Dems, when was the last time a Republican in Congress showed spine and integrity? Sure they can maul in gangs and wolfpack, but spine?

Graham has seen it all coming forever - you can see that in every set of any questioning where he has participated. JAG has not one — think about that, not ONE —Republican willing to take a stand.

The salt will go well with all the pork.

It could not from among its own ranks make up a government capable of carrying out all the projects necessary to realize its aims. Therein lies the special crime and betrayal of men like Schacht and Von Neurath, Speer and Von Papen, Raeder and Donitz, Keitel and Jodl. It is doubtful whether the Nazi master plan could have succeeded without their specialized intelligence which they so willingly put at its command. They did so with knowledge of its announced aims and methods, and continued their services after practice had confirmed the direction in which they were tending. Their superiority to the average run of Nazi mediocrity is not their excuse. It is their condemnation.

That pretty much sums it up - not just for Graham, or a Warner or a Lugar who should know better; but for the whole of the crew in DOJ who knew.

It’s not about ability to interrogate - it’s about never having to face any consequences for committing crimes against innocent people. It’s not about giving “rights” to KSM; it’s about the shameful descent of ending up a state sponsor of torture and the beggardom of a country reduced to slithering through the court system, claiming “state secrets” for cases like el-Masri.
*******

Trying to breath deeply and get briefly back on topic before real work. When does the GJ that Fitzgerald has been using expire? Oct/Nov? I don’t object to timing much, bc he’s on his own track - but if he is going to formally wrap the investigation, it would be much better to do it now, than to have that hit right before the elections - the announcement that the Spec Pros isn’t proceeding with anything further in front of the GJ.

me to me @ 53

I’m sorry, but did that “executive order” giving him presidential powers to classify and declasify ever turn up?

I don’t think so, somebody please show it to me

The one to Cheney? I think Mary (a/k/a Maryforever, a/k/a Mary4) had it a long time ago.

OT but worth its weight in gold for John Laesch:

http://rawstory.com/showoutart.....dont-sing/

Mary @ 55

I’m tight for time at work, but I think I’ve moved from pissy depression to angry - the heart of angry, the reason you use it in the definition of all those fancier and fluffier terms.

I knew Graham would cave and McCain and Warner. As much as I get furious with the Dems, when was the last time a Republican in Congress showed spine and integrity? Sure they can maul in gangs and wolfpack, but spine?

Graham has seen it all coming forever - you can see that in every set of any questioning where he has participated. JAG has not one — think about that, not ONE —Republican willing to take a stand.

The salt will go well with all the pork.

It could not from among its own ranks make up a government capable of carrying out all the projects necessary to realize its aims. Therein lies the special crime and betrayal of men like Schacht and Von Neurath, Speer and Von Papen, Raeder and Donitz, Keitel and Jodl. It is doubtful whether the Nazi master plan could have succeeded without their specialized intelligence which they so willingly put at its command. They did so with knowledge of its announced aims and methods, and continued their services after practice had confirmed the direction in which they were tending. Their superiority to the average run of Nazi mediocrity is not their excuse. It is their condemnation.

That pretty much sums it up - not just for Graham, or a Warner or a Lugar who should know better; but for the whole of the crew in DOJ who knew.

It’s not about ability to interrogate - it’s about never having to face any consequences for committing crimes against innocent people. It’s not about giving “rights” to KSM; it’s about the shameful descent of ending up a state sponsor of torture and the beggardom of a country reduced to slithering through the court system, claiming “state secrets” for cases like el-Masri.
*******

Trying to breath deeply and get briefly back on topic before real work. When does the GJ that Fitzgerald has been using expire? Oct/Nov? I don’t object to timing much, bc he’s on his own track - but if he is going to formally wrap the investigation, it would be much better to do it now, than to have that hit right before the elections - the announcement that the Spec Pros isn’t proceeding with anything further in front of the GJ.

Mary

I could not agree with you more. Nonetheless, they may have made a mistake in this version and it may not protect them the way they think it will. Obviously, I don’t want to point it out and help them to correct it, but, they may only think this will let them get away with it.

Not such slick lawyering going on there.

Nonetheless, this bill should never be allowed to pass, because of the unforgivable message it sends.

This is the legislative equivlent of the “unforgivable curses” in Harry Potter.

I am so confused. First the Syrians thwart a terrorist attack on the US Embassy in Syria, in which they lose one of their own soldiers defending US personnel, and now the Iranians offer to help stabilize conditions in Iraq.

Does this mean that the enemy (Bush) of our new friends (Syria and Iran) is our enemy? Someone give me a scorecard. Which ones are we supposed to appease?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/200.....iraq_dc_83

scarecrow @ 61

I am so confused. First the Syrians thwart a terrorist attack on the US Embassy in Syria, in which they lose one of their own soldiers defending US personnel, and now the Iranians offer to help stabilize conditions in Iraq.

Does this mean that the enemy (Bush) of our new friends (Syria and Iran) is our enemy? Someone give me a scorecard. Which ones are we supposed to appease?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/200.....iraq_dc_83

(head-petal spinning so fast, flowah ends up out cold on the flo’)

*ilson46201 @ 17

one thing I guess I have to give Bush credit for — so far Sunni/Shia sectarian violence hasn’t broken out on the NearEastside of Indianapolis. I think I live in a Sunni neighborhood but I’m not really sure about that …

No breakouts in Iowa City either. I credit the Iowa National Guard, which has a maintenance depot strategically located in the south-central part of town.

scarecrow @ 61

I am so confused. First the Syrians thwart a terrorist attack on the US Embassy in Syria, in which they lose one of their own soldiers defending US personnel, and now the Iranians offer to help stabilize conditions in Iraq.

Does this mean that the enemy (Bush) of our new friends (Syria and Iran) is our enemy? Someone give me a scorecard. Which ones are we supposed to appease?

There’s an election coming up. No matter what happens, appease the Republicans.

NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!

lotus @ 62

scarecrow @ 61

I am so confused. First the Syrians thwart a terrorist attack on the US Embassy in Syria, in which they lose one of their own soldiers defending US personnel, and now the Iranians offer to help stabilize conditions in Iraq.

Does this mean that the enemy (Bush) of our new friends (Syria and Iran) is our enemy? Someone give me a scorecard. Which ones are we supposed to appease?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/200.....iraq_dc_83

(head-petal spinning so fast, flowah ends up out cold on the flo’)

Mercy! Somebody fetch us a fan. Lotus has done fainted dead away!

In other administration-related legal news, Abu Gonzalez wants to bring the masterminds of the 9/11 Commission to justice.

(No, that’s not a typo. Hell of a Freudian slip, though.)

That dang angie, hoggin’ the smelling salts.

I EPU’d myself - go figure.

Creeping Truth - The most a shareholder could do, in either situation, is bring a derivative suit, if, after making demand of the Company, the company will not sue. It is not an easy thing to do b/c a court can dismiss the derivative suit if they believe it is frivolous or not in the best interest of the company AND b/c if the derivative shareholder’s lose, they can be personally held liable for attorneys’ fees and damages.

With respect to AA, it would be for defamation - harm to business reputation.

With respect to Disney it would be most likely for wasting of corporate assets (perhaps even fraud depending on where the money trail leads) - i.e. $43 million was spent for the personal benefit of directors/officers/Chimpy, etc. and or employees, NOT the corporations benefit.

Mandamus doesn’t apply to shareholders seeking to enforce what the believe are a company’s rights. You can read up on mandamus here:

Wikipedia - Mandamus

PS - The AA agents portrayed in the film, and any other person portrayed in the film, can personally sue for defamation.

Mommybrain @ 50

With the recent disclosures concerning Valerie Wilson’s reason d’etre at the CIA (Iran), does anyone else think they were going for a twofer, maybe…Both Wilsons?

I don’t doubt it for a second.

scarecrow @ 59

I am so confused. First the Syrians thwart a terrorist attack on the US Embassy in Syria, in which they lose one of their own soldiers defending US personnel, and now the Iranians offer to help stabilize conditions in Iraq.

Does this mean that the enemy (Bush) of our new friends (Syria and Iran) is our enemy? Someone give me a scorecard. Which ones are we supposed to appease?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/200.....iraq_dc_83

Or maybe it just means that Syria and Iran are beahving more soberly, maurely and repsonsibly these days than the US.

Or maybe it means that the Bushco has been wrong in branding these countries as evil.(did

Or maybe it’s just a coincidence

Mommybrain 48 — I’ve thought that since 2003 or so, whenever it was that I first found out that Plame worked for a section on WMD that included Turkey. That was tooooo close for scattershot.

Iran

Don’t know that much about Iran- except that they either want nukes- or they want people to think that they want nukes in order to get something else. As much as I hate Clusterfuck’s guts- it’s not a good idea for Iran to get nukes- even if they smile and say please.

Can I just say how that Hentic illustration down below continues to “bother” me in a real good way ? Sorry; gotta look again.

Am I the only one with a slow loading FDL today? Refresh and preview buttons are also missing.

Just can’t get the power of Lauers(sp?) Oval interview out of my head. Wow, those questions in the Oval office! What body language! Matt handling his marker in a way that kept Georgie Poo from grabbing him or worse. I hope journalism profs use that in class for many years.

The Nefarious Leslie @ 66

In other administration-related legal news, Abu Gonzalez wants to bring the masterminds of the 9/11 Commission to justice.

(No, that’s not a typo. Hell of a Freudian slip, though.)

Hannity’s question leading up to Gonzalez’ answer is also interesting:

Hannity: Why would we use the Geneva Conventions as our standard, number one, and why would we confer rights to enemy combatants, considering we’ve never done that before?

Guess the Nuremberg trials don’t count, cause the defendants in that case were not “enemy” or “combatants.” Just friendly persuaders, I guess.

there is only one nuclear-armed Middle East power — Israel

Wilson- yep and that’s one too many.

Scarecrow @ 61:

I would guess that the Syrians are beginning to get really worried about the budding Islamist movements in the state. My understanding is that the Syrian government is largely secular, with ties to Iran because they need friends in the region. They also support Hezbollah (through the Shebaa Farms border dispute, which has only been shown to have been Lebanese on one map, which was a forgery [wikipedia])

However, they do this to keep Israel occupied, and they have no desire to have that kind of relgious fundamentalism in their own country, as that would topple the current regime [nytimes].

So, to label the Syrian regime terrorist is a bit simplistic, I think. Instead, they are attempting to maintian power by supporting popular causes, but when the rubber hits the road in their own land, they seem to be very much in support of their own secular regime. All of that may be changing, however, as the popular movements in the region seem to go away from pan-arabism to pan-Islamism [nytimes].

As for Iran coming to the aid of Iraq, I’d bet dollars to donuts it’s really to the aid of the Shi’ite population at the expense of the Kurds and the Sunni. Even taken on the face of what the article says, they do mention links to the Shia groups in Iran, so it may be very difficult for the Iranian government to stop those kinds of activities, even if they wanted to. Given Ahmadinejad’s desire to return Iran to a pre-Industrial educational system [nytimes], I’m not sure I’d believe that they’re idea of reform and peace has anything to do with our idea of reform and peace.

But this is just stuff I’ve pieced together from the news– a far cry from wondering why Bush was wrong with his slack-jawed full-mouthed idiotic statement about irony and Hezbollah.

mmr @
9

When all the ashes clear and everything gets cleared away, which may take decades, I hope we remember Patrick Fitzgerald as the turning point in the nightmare of the past 5 years.

There had been critics of the administration, and there had been protests and disagreements and all kinds of arguments, but they all fell on deaf ears. Fitzgerald, with his extreme professionalism and dogged desire for the truth, was unimpeachable, unassailable by the Republicans. He was unswiftboatable, and as such, opened the flood gates. Now we’ve got Ned, we’ve got Olbermann, and even Matt Lauer seems to have looked into his pants and found his testicles.

Here’s to Fitz– the guy that started the revolution for real!

and to Jane and Christy, by God! Drinks all around. Sour mash for everybody (except TRex, of course).

The Hill: Grassley & Sessions hold up Keisler nomination

“But a spokesman for Sessions has denied his boss’s involvement.”

…..and to Joe and Valery Wilson.

scarecrow 61 — find a second validating source OUTSIDE THE US and NOT Parisa Hefezi.

Hefezi covers Iran almost exclusively for Reuters, means there’s the chance that Hefezi is a stovepipe.

Just scanned Turkish and Lebanese papers in Newseum.org, cannot find any mention of Iran-Iraq discussion. Discussion of Pro-Kurd group and PKK negotions, but not Iran-Iraq.

Suspect, IMO.

*ilson — ummm, how do you say “nuclear” in Pakistani?

Pakistan is certainly one of the most dangerous nations on earth- besides the US with a Clusterfuck in charge- it’s not in the middle east however.

windje @ 39, fahrender @ 78:

True, true! It does take a support network, and he didn’t go it alone.

Does TRex at least get to drink some OJ?

Rayne @ 81

*ilson — ummm, how do you say “nuclear” in Pakistani?

I don’t know Urdu but I do know that Pakistan is not usually considered a part of the Middle East — but close only counts in horseshoes, grenades and atom bombs …

EvilDrPuma @ 68

Mommybrain @ 50

With the recent disclosures concerning Valerie Wilson’s reason d’etre at the CIA (Iran), does anyone else think they were going for a twofer, maybe…Both Wilsons?

I don’t doubt it for a second.

With the revelations from David Corn’s book, I have come to believe that the main target was Valerie; Joe’s editorial was the tool they found at hand to destroy her career in retribution for the CIA not ginning-up the evidence for Iraqi WMD.

rwcole @ 71

Iran

Don’t know that much about Iran- except that they either want nukes- or they want people to think that they want nukes in order to get something else. As much as I hate Clusterfuck’s guts- it’s not a good idea for Iran to get nukes- even if they smile and say please.

Stanford PhD had a nice op-ed in Newsweek a few weeks ago, How To Make Tehran Blink

By Scott D. Sagan, PhD

Given Tehran’s defiant response to the European and American effort to constrain its nuclear program, it is time for bolder diplomacy out of Washington. U.S. President George W. Bush should take a page from the playbook of Ronald Reagan, who negotiated with an evil Soviet regime–competing in the war of ideas, but addressing the enemy’s security concerns through arms-control agreements.

Iran’s intransigence is both deeply unfortunate and perfectly predictable. It is unfortunate because Tehran’s refusal to suspend its uranium-enrichment operations immediately–as demanded in July by the U.N. Security Council in a legally binding resolution–suggests that Iran is moving more quickly than expected toward a nuclear-weapons capability. Tehran has now turned the nuclear crisis into a test of the whole U.N. Security Council system. And Russia and China’s current position, threatening to veto any biting sanctions against Iran, suggests that the Security Council may well fail this crucial test.

Tehran’s response is predictable, however, because the offer on the table contains both inadequate economic carrots and barely credible threats of sanctions and military force. The carrots appeared impressive at first glance–in return for a suspension of enrichment we reportedly promised to provide light-water nuclear reactors and to help Iran with civil aviation and telecommunications technology. But we did not offer the one incentive that might possibly work, security guarantees that could reduce Iran’s desire for nuclear weapons…..

All bold is mine.

As usual, Bush is just trying to provoke someone. The entire rest of the world know this is about the US’ dependence on inexpensive ME crude. As long as the Shrub can convince the US TM, that it’s about us being the victim, he will continue.

Somewhat OT, but cheering:
In his 9/11 anniversary address to the nation, President Bush:
Took pains to be non-partisan - 30% - 11279 votes
Tried to use day of mourning for political gain - 70% - 26044 votes
Total: 37323 votes

That speech went over really well, didn’t it, Georgie?

Weird comment-jumping going on these days. I saw rwc’s “84″ before I hit Submit, but now I’m 84 and he’s 85. And at least two answers have preceded their questions yesterday and today. Hmm.

When all the ashes clear and everything gets cleared away, which may take decades, I hope we remember Patrick Fitzgerald as the turning point in the nightmare of the past 5 years.

not unless the rest of us do our jobs