Conservatives Without Conscience
Here is but one example of the "conservative" ethos back then -- John Ashcroft, in 1997, arguing against expanded Federal Government surveillance powers in the wake of the Oklahoma City terrorist attack:
The Clinton administration wants government to be able to read international computer communications – financial transactions, personal e-mail and proprietary information sent abroad – all in the name of national security . . . .
Granted, the Internet could be used to commit crimes, and advanced encryption could disguise such activity. However, we do not provide the government with phone jacks outside our homes for unlimited wiretaps. Why, then, should we grant government the Orwellian capability to listen at will and in real time to our communications across the Web?
The protections of the Fourth Amendment are clear. The right to protection from unlawful searches is an indivisible American value. . . .
Every medium by which people communicate can be exploited by those with illegal or immoral intentions. Nevertheless, this is no reason to hand Big Brother the keys to unlock our e-mail diaries, open our ATM records or translate our international communications.
There seems to be no limit, literally, on what Bush supporters are eager to defend when undertaken by the administration in the name of "protecting us." No power is too invasive or extreme, no action is too lawless, to provoke their objections. Even restrictions imposed by law are no impediment, as Bush supporters defend radical policies even when they are expressly prohibited by criminal statute. If anything, the principal criticisms -- really, the only criticism -- which they voice towards the administration is that it has been too restrained, too mild, that it has not gone far enough in exercising unchecked power, both abroad and domestically, in the name of fighting terrorism.
Explaining this fundamental reversal, along with the dynamic that causes so many Americans to support such blatantly un-American policies, is the core project undertaken by John Dean in his best-selling book, Conservatives Without Conscience. To do so, Dean advances two primary arguments:
First, what is currently described as the "conservative movement" bears virtually no resemblance to the conservatism pioneered by Dean's close friend, Barry Goldwater. The current movement has nothing to do with restraining government power or preserving historical values. Instead, it has embraced radical and historically unprecedented theories of presidential power and has morphed into an authoritarian movement which largely attracts personality types characterized by a desire and need to submit to and follow authority.
Second, because those who submit to authority necessarily relinquish their own conscience (in favor of serving the conscience of their leader and/or their movement), those who are part of this movement are capable of acts which a healthy and normal conscience ought to preclude. They can use torture, break laws, wage unnecessary wars based on false pretenses, and attempt to destroy the reputation of plainly patriotic and honest Americans -- provided that they are convinced that doing so advances the interests of the authority they serve and the movement of which they are a part.
The most significant contribution Dean makes to understanding the political forces which have dominated our country for the last five years is that he emphasizes and illuminates the psychological impulses underlying the Bush movement. Dean documents that the "conservative" movement is composed of various factions who actually share very little in common in the way of political beliefs and could not come close to agreeing on a core set of political principles and ideals which define their movement. In the absence of a set of core, shared beliefs, what, then, binds them and maintains their allegiance to this political movement?
The answer Dean provides is the shared hatred of common enemies. And their collective attacks on those enemies have become the conservative movement's defining attribute. And that is sufficient to maintain allegiance because, argues Dean, what Bush followers crave more than anything else is submission to a powerful authority as a means of alleviating their fears of ambiguity, uncertainty and complexity.
Ultimately, as Dean convincingly demonstrates, the characteristic which defines the Bush movement, the glue which binds it together and enables and fuels all of the abuses, is the vicious, limitless methods used to attack and demonize the "Enemy," which encompasses anyone -- foreign or domestic -- threatening to their movement. What defines and motivates this movement are not any political ideas or strategic objectives, but instead, it is the bloodthirsty, ritualistic attacks on the Enemy de jour -- the Terrorist, the Communist, the Illegal Immigrant, the Secularist, and most of all, the "Liberal."
What excites, enlivens, and drives Bush followers is the identification of the Enemy followed by swarming, rabid attacks on it. It is a movement that defines itself not by identifiable ideas but by that which it is not. Its foreign policy objectives are identifiable by one overriding goal -- destroy and kill the Enemy, potential or suspected enemies, and everyone nearby. And it increasingly views its domestic goals through the same lens. It is a movement in a permanent state of war, which views all matters, foreign and domestic, only in terms of this permanent war.
It is a movement devoted to the destruction of its enemies wherever they might be found. And it finds new ones, in every corner and seemingly on a daily basis, because it must. That is the food which sustains it.
The Bush administration's ability to engage in extraordinary and radical behavior has not occurred in a vacuum. The administration is radical and can act seemingly without limits because its supporters and followers are radical and limitless in their allegiance to its abuses. Understanding the disturbing and dangerous human dynamic which fuels that movement is critical to understanding the movement itself, and ultimately, to defeating it. Dean's book is a uniquely valuable tool for understanding what the so-called "conservative" movement has become.
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Dean!
Glenn!
That never happens….
Hi everyone
Greetings, Glenn. It’s an honor to have you here.
I have just started John Dean’s book. In the preface there is a great quote from Robert G. Vaughn, which I have been using in conversations with friends when I try to illustrate the secrecy and anti-American characteristics of the Bush Administration.
Great quote.
And Glenn, keep up the good work.
One of the truly appalling things we have seen from the Bush administration this year has been their disavowal of Mr. Dean. It seems that all conservatives, no matter how revered and accomplished, automatically become liberal whackos whenever they differ from the administration.
Great job, Glenn, and welcome.
Here’s an idea, folks: Spotlight this one liberally.
Hi Glenn, thanks for being here. We owe Mr. Dean a big thank you for bringing the underlying
psychologypathology of this administration up now, so we can figure out ways to counter it in the election cycle.What will move the True Believers off their dime?
Please remember also, folks, to remain on topic for this thread.
Thanks!
Their treatment of John Dean is completely consistent with what Dean describes in his book - the lynch mob, hateful swarm that is directed at anyone critical of the administration.
You can see it in every prominent opponent of this administration - the Jack Murtha, Richard Clarke, Joe Wilson treatment — you see it on a daily basis in the right-wing blogosphere - and the treatment of Dean, for instance at the Senate Judiciary Committee - where that cowardly Sen. Cornyn called him a felon and all sorts of other names and then ran away - is exactly what this movement does.
I don’t think the True Believers can be moved at all. When I started blogging, I believed otherwise, but they are too invested personally and psychologically in changing (it is what causes most them, still, to refuse to admit error about Iraq or to acknowledge our project has failed.
The key is to use them to show the country what this movement really is - not to try to reason with them to change their minds.
Glenn -
In your opinion, what is the difference between authoritarian governments and fascist regimes?
Hi Glenn — Dean’s thesis really dovetails well with your theory (original or not — but you were the first one to articulate it that I read) about the authoritarian cultists who populate wingnuttia.
I also think the Digby/Rick Perlstein argument that “conservatism” really doesn’t mean anything explicit, and constantly redefines itself in terms of what it can get away with (ejecting anything that doesn’t work, even former rallying points like Bush himself) has a home along side Dean’s ideas.
Like the Pied Piper, Bush & Co. have led the Republican Party, pretty much in its entirety, down the path where it can now be considered fiscally Liberal. The word “conservative” has lost any meaning it ever had; Goldwater would be horrified. I say this of the Party that now stands for “spend and spend” and “expand the federal government even more”. The Republicans have now become what they criticized the Democratic Liberals for, in spades, spending more than ever before and growing the federal government to a size undreamed of in their worst nightmares. I haven’t been able to find many conservatives who believe in fiscal responsibility, or who disdain a federal bureaurocracy, anymore. So call them what you will, they have all left Hamelin, seduced like children by Bush’s flute playing, more like pigs at the trough of government money, leaving the rats behind, unfortunately.
I haven’t read this book yet but loved “Worse Than Watergate” A real heads up that was missed by many. Thanks to John Dean And Glenn for their attention to truth.
TRex @ 6
Not only that, TRex, but even when testifying before the Senate Judiciary Cmte the republicans were less than polite and Cornyn pointed out that he was a convicted felon. It was a disgusting display.
In your opinion, what is the difference between authoritarian governments and fascist regimes?
I think fascism is a subset of authoritarianism. Authoritarianism requires only a desire to submit to an overriding authority figure and the veneration of that authority above all else - where the strengthening of the authority figure and his followers is paramount.
Fascism requires a lot more specific factors involving the relationship of corporations and the state, attitudes towards racial minorities, etc. Fascism is a right-wing ideology, whereas authoritarianism - as Dean says - can be on the Left or the Right (and has been; Stalinism was a form of authoritarianism). But right now, the American “conservative” movemtent has taken on all of the characteristics of an authoritarian movement.
The logical conclusion of this authoritarian movement should be (I think) self-destruction as the various sects turn on one another. If so, what is the best way to encourage this along? Also, Dean seemed to say that if & when authoritarians can see themselves unfiltered, they can become embarrassed & modify their behavior.
Glenn Greenwald @ 10
When I ran into Perlstein in Chicago he said something to the effect that we weren’t going to win this one by winning the argument. I’ll paraphrase here because of poor memory but it was more about redefining the argument and redrawing the battle lines, and then hammering like hell until they’re realized.
Only much more articulate than that.
I loved “How would a patriot act.” Thanks, Glenn.
Dean’s thesis certainly explains why the administration’s followers (or so-called conservatives in general) are so “anti”-everything, and why they need not reason things through, or be swayed by dialoge and debate.
It’s like trying to explain to Creationists that acknowledging the material facts that support evolution is NOT some scheme to attack their belief system.
In the same way, pointing out the material facts of the last five years–the catastrophic destruction in Iraq, the corruption and cronyism in government, policy failure, lawlessness, and abandonment of normal Conservative principles–is NOT simply an attack on The Other Team.
They can’t seem to get it. That’s why their politics is so shallow. In my opinion.
You can’t move them off the dime. They are into dominance/submission and won’t be argued out of it. I have relations like this in 3 generations. It’s a world view that makes sense and is fulfilling for them to project onto others in the outside world what they dislike or fear in themselves.
Logic and reason don’t work on these rabid folks w/o consciences…what can we do?
I have long wanted to see the Dems FIGHT these folks using some tough language. Call them the haters of Democracy that they are…what do we have to lose at this point? ATTACK!
These folks are just like the ones who followed Hitler and Mussolini.
JANE - Agreed completely. The principal point I made in that post was that Bush followers have no political ideology. They have dispensed with all of it in lieu of allegiance to their movement. That is one of hte premisis of Dean’s argument - that there is no “conservsative ideology” as such any ore than binds them; all that binds them is strengthening the movement in order to attack and defeat the Enemies (the Terrorist, the Immigrant, and especially the Liberal).
They are into dominance/submission and won’t be argued out of it. I have relations like this in 3 generations. It’s a world view that makes sense and is fulfilling for them to project onto others in the outside world what they dislike or fear in themselves.
It is difficult to argue effectively because it’s not susceptible to mathematical proof, because people accuse you of engaging in Pop Psychology, etc., but I really believe that the Bush movement is driven infinitely more by psychological drives than it is by political beliefs. To me, that is the real value of right-wing blogs - they really allow you to see those impulses in the most raw, unedited expression on a daily basis.
Mommybrain @ 8
slade @ 22
Conservatives Without Conscience had a big influence in our family.
CWC helped us recognize the authoritarian personalities in our community.
They’re everywhere – about a third of us are authoritarian follower types, right?
We’ve been having encounters with these people for years without really understanding them.
Even with utmost tact and patience, I’ve never been able to shake their faith in the absurd,
Logic seems useless against blind faith.
So we agree not to talk about politics or religion, just to remain friends.
What about exposing their hypocritical authoritarian leaders?
Does this shock the followers into abandoning the absurd?
Or do they immediately look for new leaders and new enemies?
Can these people be reached in any other way besides arousing fear?
Is reprogramming even a possibility?
Or do we just write them off completely, in spite of the danger they represent?
Glenn @ 16 -
“But right now, the American “conservative” movemtent has taken on all of the characteristics of an authoritarian movement.”
What would, in your opinion, be a historical counterpart to the conservative authoritarian movement that the Republican Party has become?
The logical conclusion of this authoritarian movement should be (I think) self-destruction as the various sects turn on one another. If so, what is the best way to encourage this along?
I agree completely. Failing to exacerbate those wedges is, in my view, one of the biggest failings of liberals. Dean lays out the different factions who compose the conservative movement and how they really agree on almost nothing.
And it’s not just that they don’t agree on much; they vehemently, even violently disagree, on many things. Immigration is a perfect example. The Dubai port deals was another. The economic conservatives conflict with the social conservatives on all sorts of things. The fear-driven terrorist obsessive authoritarians are always angry if the most extremist policies possible aren’t pursued or any moderation is shown.
I think it’s critical to do everything possible to inflame those differences. Particularly as the movement fails, they will turn their angry, hateful methods inwards and start attacking each other, trying to avoid blame. That is the key tipping point that needs to be reached. I think we’re seeing some of that now.
Thanks for being here, Glenn.
What is it going to take for us as a country to be less divided?
Another Great Depression, or a true World War? I see little hope of changing authoritarian minds at this point, without some disaster befalling us.
Hi Glen,
Great synopsis of Dean’s book. I just finished my second read. I think this book and George Lakoff’s work are must reads for understanding the modern
conservative“right wing authoritarian” movement. How can we use the information that Mr. Dean has given us? It seems to me that as a start we should be integrating the “A” word (authoritarian) into our descriptions of that movement. But that’s not enough. I think that what I got from Dean’s book is that the ingredients for a Facist type regime are in the right wing mixing bowl. Hoping that their incompetance will derail the movement is not enough. How do we proceed?BTW… your blog and your book rocks!
Perhaps this was not what Goldwater meant by “conservative,” but it darn sure fit with Father Coughlin, Joe McCarthy, J. Edgar Hoover, Robert Welch, and–more often than folks would like to believe–William F. Buckley as well.
Indeed, the architecture of the Bush Administration was built by men who got their first taste of power in the Nixon Administration–which had many of the same goals as the Bush Administration, but lacked the movement infrastructure to back them up.
This is the real challenge, as I see it–how to distinguish and disentangle the relatively healthy and the deeply malignant strands of American conservatism. Collectively, Burke has always been on their lips, but De Maistre has never been far from their hearts.
I should note that I say this as someone who’s in the midst of a series of posts devoted in part to drawing the distinction between conservatives and reactionaries. There clearly are distinctively different central tendencies, and outright reactionaries are relatively small in numbers. But over time–particularly by adroitly picking and demonizing enemies of convenience–reactionaries have managed to get conservatives to go along with a very large chunk of their agenda.
Margot @ 28
This is something I have been thinking about as well. The tragedy of 9/11 was that we had real unity and consensus in the days after the attacks, and then the Bush administration squandered it. Is it going to take another disaster to bring us together or will it polarize us even further?
Inevitably, bad things will happen. The question is how we handle them.
I am of the belief that Grover Norquist’s bathtub remark is not far off of their real plan, to underfund government to the point it’s almost completely ineffectual. I couldn’t tell if Dean thinks similarly or not. My interpretation is that he thinks the incompetence is an unintended consequence of their stupidity and cupidity and not a means to an end. What do you think?
The secrecy and self-righteousness of this bunch makes it impossible to know the full extent of what they’ve done to the government infrastructure, but I suspect that most of it makes not giving federal scholarship money to anyone studying evolutionary biology look like a rational policy.
I enjoyed both Glenn’s book and Conservatives without Conscience for the insights into the minds of these faux “conservatives”, who are really authoritarians. However the end of the Dean book is rather a downer - he quotes Professor Altemeyer, whose research is the basis for the authoritarian thesis, that “Proabably 20 to 25 percent of the adult American population is so right wing authoritarian, so scared, so self-righteous, so ill-informed and so dogmatic that nothing you can say or do will change their minds.”
This is a disturbing number. Is the only way to get to these people to destroy their leaders?
My other question is, how did these people get this way? Obviously a lot is entwined with fundamentalism, but what other forces are at play? My greater concern is that these are also the people that want to destry public schooling, molding more and more kids into the same mind set. If we can’t change the adults, how can we limit their influence?
Thanks for the opportunity for discussion.
Given the low turnout of voters compared to some other places Americans often tune out the politics around them. The Bush administration would have taken advantage of this regardless of 9/11, that just made easier for them. Some of the boys had been working for reshaping the Middle East(and the Unitied States-Rove wanting a long lasting Repub majority)for a long, long time. When you haved the type of personality that seems to dominate the Repubilican Party today, very conservative Christians(who love being told what to think), you end up with a very reactonary regime and the ends justify the means.
Thank you Mr. Dean and Mr. Greenwald for being here, and for fighting the good fight every day. You’re both modern day patriots.
Sometimes I fanatasize what our next president (D) would be able to say in the inaugural address. How to explain what has gone wrong and what to hope for in the next 4 years, with Bush and Cheney standing near. How will the truth be best announced after the authoritarian nightmare has been defeated? What would Kennedy say?
I haven’t bought this book yet but it’s in my shopping cart. I totally enjoyed Mr. Deans “Worse Than Watergate”. Great post Glenn!
These CWCs are from various groups and I’m all for putting wedges between them and getting them to fight each other.
But it seems as if there is an Oz behind the curtain (rove) who always know how to unite them by using HATE. I believe John Dean talks about that in his book.
The CWCs hate women and gays….it’s as if the religious segment is 100% based on this.
It always strikes me now when I hear these “leaders” spout fear of the “terrorists” and “islamofascists” or the new bon mot of the day etc, that if I close my eyes and listen, they are speaking the very same nonsense they ascribe to the “enemy”. How can we make the American public see this for what it is? That our democracy and republic is being ripped away while they “spread democracy” around and continue to be the “moral leaders” that their followers crave and clamor for so they can sleep better at night and find comfort in their xenophobia and justification for their actions?
Glenn Greenwald @ 23
But aren’t there Bush followers that can be (and in some cases already are being) peeled off? IIRC, Dean’s estimate of the genuine authoritarian followers was about 30% of the electorate. Doesn’t that mean there’s another 15-20% that can be pried away?
What is the appeal of the Bush message for that 15-20% (or whatever the precise percentage is), and how can they be pulled over to the side of sanity?
(I was planning to have an in-depth post written on the this subject in time for the book salon, but the Armitage news blew up that notion.)
The complete lack of conscience - of any sense of responsiblity to any community other than the inside circle - is a defining characteristic. Dean isolates and highlights that very well. It is how they can make such completely arbitrary and contradictory statements without a flinch.
I think the mothlike attraction to power is an integral piece. The core group also attracted some relatively mainstream conservatives early on. Those seemed to become so enamored with the power and they were able to rationalize some of what they originally did, based upon the fact that we do have real enemies and we did face a horrible event for our nation. In the end, they were spit out just a without honor and without conscience.
One area where it becomes so clear that they have no moral center is the wiretap program. It’s not “the worst” of what they have done, but it shows how without care of consequence they are willing to operate. If the courts truly have the strength of will to declare the obvious - what happens? Every conceivable option to the “what happens” question has abhorrent aspects and involves either the people or the principles that support this country taking a tremendous hit - none of which need ever have happened.
The core are without conscience and those who laid down with them for the power are beyond contempt.
mrobinsong says:
Sometimes I fanatasize what our next president (D) would be able to say in the inaugural address. How to explain what has gone wrong and what to hope for in the next 4 years….What would Kennedy say?
Not Kennedy, but FDR: “We have nothing to fear but fear itself.”
I remember very well the pressure President Clinton was under in 1997 and I know that he tried his best to assuage the right with programs that he probably wouldn’t have pursued in other circumstances. He did in effect hand the right the basis for many of the things we complain about today.
My question is what will the right do when the Dems are exercising the same powers they are now defending? and what can we do to try and engage these people in responsible dialogue?
Glenn Greenwald @
11
I agree that reasoning with them is useless. The difference is more psychological than political. Authoritarian followers are frightened people who can’t stand ambiguity and uncertainty. The most emotionally primitive of them can’t even tolerate minor differences.
I don’t think that frightening them is a useful tactic either as it tends to make them dig in.
Embarrassment is the best weapon. Shining the light on. Calling things by their right names. Like Lies and Failure and Dishonesty.
“Instead, it has embraced radical and historically unprecedented theories of presidential power and has morphed into an authoritarian movement which largely attracts personality types characterized by a desire and need to submit to and follow authority.
I’m not sure I would frame it this way- I’d say that they identify heavily with authority and authoritarian mindset, and thus feel powerful themselves. Powerful, not submissive.
Is this a distinction worth making?
To swopa at 40, maybe those non-authoritarian, pro-Bush people just see Bush et al. as good for business. Does pure self-interest equal not having a conscience?
Valley Girl @ 45
Perhaps so, in the sense that the desire is to feel powerful, but the dirty secret is that in fact they’re being submissive. Which I’d guess would make them extremely ornery and defensive when challenged.
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The authoriatrians today love to harp back to the good old days when the whiteman was in charge, the 1950’s being an example. I remember seeing JFK pass by in his car when I was 8 years old. I was part of that generation that was inspired to serve my country through the Peace Corps. Both Nixon and Reagan scared me in their attitude of arrogance. I hated Reagan as Governor of California and almosted stayed overseas when he got elected. With this current administration justice is no longer for everybody. The world changes around us and they are afraid of it because they don’t control it.
I heard 2 interesting things watching tee vee this am. On C-SPAN’s morning show, Michael Rubin of AEI (of the Iran is a grave and immediate danger school) said Dr. Rice was doing a lousy job and that being a celebrity was not enough. In light of the recent Harper’s article, I found it significant.
On MTP Kate O’Beirne (fibbing like mad) said NR had never been 100% behind Iraq War.
It will be interesting to see what happens when the Iraq debacle is clear when to them.
i know one thing for sure, the young adult generation will own these issues, and they aren’t afraid of them. The president they remember and honor is Clinton, not JFK, LBJ, Carter. They weren’t heartbroken by leader assasinations, they were disgusted by Bush’s lies and manipulations. I love this generation of young adults who have taken over our local Dem party organizations, by running for the offices. My eldest son gave everyone leather-bound copies of The Constituion for Christmas. They give me hope.
Paul Rosenberg @ 41
Yeah. I appreciate that quote more than ever since reading the book since Dean asserts that the RWAs (right wing authoritarians) are all about causing fear. What a difference.
I agree about driving the wedges between their colalition. A good place to start would be to peel off the libertarians over the NSA spying on Americans. I was stuck in the book that I’m on the same side as Bob Barr and Phyllis Schlafly with this one. That’s creepy and yet empowering.
Glenn Greenwald @ 26
Agreed. Also having nice flare-ups on the “electability” front, watching Hagel throw Shays under the bus this morning for abandoning the party line on the war was fun. I think the strongest fault lines probably lie between their own love of power, and when one gets threatened by another — as in the need to for candidates to distance themselves from Bush and his war in order to succeed at the polls that we are now seeing — we’re going to have some nice spectacle. Not to mention opportunity.
They get their power from the Movement….their Leader. They will do anything for the Movement. They really don’t want power….they want to be told what to do.
Thankfully, they are only 20 to 23 % of the population….however, a very noisy part of it.
Perhaps so, in the sense that the desire is to feel powerful, but the dirty secret is that in fact they’re being submissive. Which I’d guess would make them extremely ornery and defensive when challenged.
We’ve certainly seen plenty of orneriness and defensiveness from them– I was stunned to see the anger from dubya in his last presser.
lemma @ 50
Of course they weren’t. They were behind it 1,000%.
I think what disturbs me is that the coming together of Americans after 9/11 was prelude to and pretext for the rise of nationalism, concentrating more and more power in the government. That nationalism is disguised as concern for national security, but given the woeful lack of real efforts in that regard - port and rail security and safeguarding of nuclear facilities - it is becoming clearer to me, anyway, that the focus on increased surveillance of individual lives is part and parcel of the kind of nationalism that, allowed to fester unchecked, will lead to more and more encroachment on individual liberties, and consolidation of power in too few individuals (who will be reluctant - if not intransigent - about giving it up).
I think so too. THere is the description of the Bush basketball game, where he basically threw unnecessary and almost pointless elbows and hits, for the sole purpose of throwing the other team leader off his game. The concept that “lash out without reason” gets you further than a thought through strategy. “Shock and awe” is just about as fitting a theme as they could have come up with for a military campaign under his leadership.
It’s why 9/11 shook him so as well, IMO. Bin Laden borrowed from his playbook. A seemingly pointless, but massively destructive blow from out of “left field.” They are such flip sides of the coin. Both espousing God, both engaging in moral equivalencies, both thinking they can reduce the other to “shock and awe.” Bin Laden at least studies his enemy some, but has weird beliefs that show the limits on his study (like the belief that the union of the states can be broken by his actions) and Bush is just flat too stupid and/or too unwilling to even attempt an understanding. It is all too easy to believe that he took us to war in Iraq with no idea that there might be any difference between Shiites and Sunnis.
Ignorance has to remain an artform for his kind of approach. The same authoritarian desires are found at the heart of fundamentalism - whether Islamic or Christian - and it is why they (Bush and Bin Laden) each can exploit so well and so easily within faith and why science is so antithetical to them and why compassion is reduced to a commodity for use as a political propaganda point.
It is also how some true liberals, just as much as true conservatives, were orignally sucked in - the conservatives for the power, the liberals for the need to believe, especially in the emotional times of 9/11, that the compassion was really there. It’s made it almost harder for liberals who were sucked in to confess their failing - because they don’t have the lure of power and money to use as an excuse. They only have the fact that they were suckers.
Glenn– do you think that there are a fair number of Dems who also submit to authority?
I do.
Thanks Glenn for your introduction here, your book, and your fine work at your blog.
How odd to consider that we always thought that the Revolution would come from the Fists-Raised Liberal & Progressive side of the spectrum, yet see through the arguments of John Dean’s book that this has occurred in unforseen ways through the extreme right wing authoritarian conservatives. That it was a revolution brought about by bringing people face to face with their fears and not with the exuberant HOPE that so many of us envisioned is of interest. This book read in tandem with your book, Glenn, and with American Theocracy paints a picture of a nation dragged off course with great help from the pulpit. I agree that we need some hard hitting voices on the side of common sense and the commonwealth–people willing to call things as they are in as direct a manner as the talk radio/tv “pundits” employ. Perhaps pointing out inconsistencies would work for some, but I think offering ALTERNATIVES would work best to pull disgruntled Republicans into voting for change.
I do know hard core Republicans who can hardly wait for this crew to take its harebrained (sorry rabbits) ideology back to the hinterlands. One went so far as to say that we need to bring our troops home and figure out how to take the same $$ and rebuild Iraq. I think there are those out there willing to vote for Democrats, more and more all the time. What we need now are more fearless correct-thinking Dems!
Glenn,
Thanks for all you do. Regarding the so called conservatives, I think many have been programmed to have an abiding hatred of any kind of ambivalence.
Ambivalence is not necessarily weakness IMHO. It means an ability to be able to appreciate that there may be valid arguments on both sides of a given issue. Of course acquiring ambivalence requires a bit more work than simply accepting as gospel the position of some ordained leader. So I guess I’m equating authoritarianism with intellectual laziness.
Swopa @ 55
Oh lordy. That is funny.
angie @ 59
The research Dean draws on, from Canadian researcher Robert Altemeyer, strongly indicates that RWAs play a much less significant role in the Democratic Party. While RWA is only modestly correlated with party membership, either in the US or Canada, the correlations grow increasingly strong the higher up one goes.
A series of studies involving state legislatures over a period of a few years was most revealing. While there were one or two Democrats who scored deep into “Hitler” territory, Louisiana was the only legislature in which the Dems didn’t score significantly lower overall than the Reps did.
This is not to say it’s absent among Dems. But it’s not the glue that holds things together.
TRex @ 31
I would ask what galvanized public opinion on 9/11? My own feeling is that it was revenge–it was precisely that emotion which Bush stoked in the days afterward–and which has given rise to exactly the “Bushism” that’s become so apparent among the undifferentiated right wing. If there was unity immediately after 9/11, it was a dangerous one–given that public opinion was being manipulated rather crassly by both media and the White House in that time.
I’d go as far as saying that Bush didn’t squander that consensus at all. He created it, and pointed it in the direction the neo-cons desired.
For that reason, I’d submit that the previous suggestion to work to break up alliances among those rightist groups is necessary, but, more important is to understand how that consensus came to be and what it is. In very short order, the White House and the media combined to create a cult of personality around Bush, and showing Bush for exactly what he is (an empty suit) will begin that process of fracturing that cult.
The thing these goobers on the right fear most is impotence. They transfer their own personal fears of that to a larger schema, that of national potency–as evidenced by the swaggering being done in the last few years. So, showing Bush to be impotent and ineffectual is the primary means by which those fractures begin.
Cheers.
As we speak of this particular authoritarian movement we face today, perhaps one distinction would help. It’s the one Aristotle made between two sorts of authoritarian regimes, one aristocratic and the other despotic. The former he defines as the rule of the few for the sake of all, and the latter (our present reality) as the rule of the few for the sake of the few.
Either way, however, Aristotle’s view is actually quite dark for those of us who would welcome the rule of the many for the sake of all. To get there, given the poor condition of American civic education, will require a double transformation.
First, multitudes of present day followers need to be turned away from their beloved depots. Then, once that tall order is filled, they need to be transformed into active, informed, thinking citizens. Some stretch, that two step.
Sara Robinson has been holding something of an equivalent discourse, as guest-blogger on David Neiwert’s blog.
She’s been reading ‘Conservatives Without Conscience,’ writing about her experiences helping people who are trying to escape fundamentalist religion, and deserves readership.
And Neiwert does, too. :-)
This may be related. Re: Buyers remorse. Well, at least they’re talking about it.
In 5th District, Democrats looking back at ‘74, not ‘94
By Scott Sexton
JOURNAL COLUMNIST
snip
High fuel costs. Economic difficulties - inflation in 1974, soaring federal deficits in 2006. Unpopular wars - Vietnam fresh in voters minds in 1974, Iraq raging today.
“And a president who wouldn’t tell the truth about anything,” Neal said. “Richard Nixon and Mr. Bush seem to have the same problem in that regard.”
http://www.journalnow.com/serv.....&path=!localnews!scottsexton!&s=
Burnet Oliveros @ 44
Authoritarian leaders are not embarrassed easily.
Embarrassment (and humor) can work on the follower types, but unless it’s done with great care they will hate you for it.
Let’s admit it, there’s an authoritarian in all of us.
Have you ever had an Ebenezer Scrooge moment?
brownandserve @ 61
Programmed or not, I think that’s absolutely (and unambivalently!) a key part of the equation.
Ambivalence frightens them. So they pick a side and believe whatever the party line is.
“What we need now are more fearless correct-thinking Dems!”
Trying to think of some…..almost got it…..nope.
I wonder if “authoritarian followers” are just the adult version of “Class Pets”. If so, then I have a better understanding of authoritarian followers.
Ghostman
Thanks for your efforts and this discussion. I wonder if you think there is some reason this very unamerican movement has prospered/developed now? It seems we have always had this vein of thought but it never really took hold. End of the cold war? globalism/ lessening of nationalism? or is it all just 9/11?
One wonders whether there will be a moment when the whole thing falls apart, such as the Welch comments essentially ending McArthyism, perhaps it was Katrina. In any case the truly scary part is that as the population in the “bunker” gets smaller, they get more radical, desperate and delusional and it is difficult to imagine them NOT attacking Iran.
Paul Rosenberg@63
The Dixiecrats became the Southern arm of the Republican Party.
Cliff @ 65….I’d be happy if we could just ridicule these fundies back into their churches like was done in 1925 with the Scopes Trial…Dean mentioned that in his book.
Ridicule their hypocrisy!
Maybe if the Dems started talking about the “authoritarian conservatives” of the GOP, that would help get people seeing it that way. Nothing like a bit of helpful labeling and framing.
Besides, always define them if you can, before they can define themselves.
Thanks, Paul @ 63. I have not finished the book, but I do wonder if most of the dems are not still ascribing to the follow- the- fear- leader- factor in order to save their personal hides and have yet to regain their innate independence from that and are forsaking so much.
montag @ 64
I beg to differ. The feeling I felt on 9/11, and the feeling I saw others feel, was a deep spiritual realization of how fragile life is. People were so NICE to one another afterwards, even total strangers. NYC still shows that effect. Bush high-jacked a moment of national trauma & potential spiritual transformation into his destructive agenda. His Pearl Harbor.
RT- Bernie Sanders calls them right-wing extremists. Would this work?
My apologies, Jane. It wasn’t completely OT. It was related to Glenn’s post at his site. Soon you will be investigated by the FBI as a terrorist if you are too assertive about getting a refund from the supermarket for sour milk.
mrobinsong says:
Sometimes I fanatasize what our next president (D) would be able to say in the inaugural address. How to explain what has gone wrong and what to hope for in the next 4 years….What would Kennedy say?
Not Kennedy, but FDR: “We have nothing to fear but fear itself.”
Kennedy would likely have to repeat himself:
“When we got into office, the thing that surprised me the most was that things were as bad as we’d been saying they were.”
John F. Kennedy
1,255 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Glen and Fldlers:
Conservatives Without Conscience is indeed an important book and is certainly timely in this potentially watershed political season. HOWEVER…Mr. Dean has a dog in this fight and it is not just his proximity to Goldwater but his participation in the other recent attempted fascist coup, the Nixon nightmare.
It seems to me, and I am not yet all the way through the book, that Dean is tryin’ to disarticulate our current fascist administration from the historical body of American fascism in order to present a sanitized version of American conservatism. The current Bush concept of authoritarian executive power is NOT unique in American history and, indeed, takes its place in a larger context of world fascism which has social and philosophical structures very much a part of contemporary academic and intellectual life.
One does not hafta strain to see the historical footprints of American fascism starting in that terrible compromise of convenience in the Constitutional Convention, thru the articulation of the political philosphy of the Firebreathers of J.C. Calhoun and Henry Clay thru to the KKK and the Jim Crow Dixicrats and the current southern congressional leadership.
Do not be fooled…what we are fightin’ today is a continuation of the Civil War that we gave up fightin in 1877.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, THE NEXT ELECTION IS LIKELY TA BE OUR LAST!!!
AZ Matt @ 73
The research I’m referring to was done in the early 90s. So the Dixiecrats were pretty much gone. Just the Blue Dogs left.
slade @ 74
Be they fools or children, I take no comfort from driving them further down. I prefer to see them as poor lost souls, not even evil, just folks doing a lousy job of making sense — and reluctant to admit they been played for rubes.
If we get rid of them in the next 2 election cycles, we will need to craft the story of what happened, who they were, what was the harm to the country, and how we are united in intention to never let them get their hands on the levers of power again. Not a tall order for progressives who know this story by heart, but it needs to become part of history. When our side wins, will we write the story? Or shove it under the carpet like a dysfunctional family secret?
There are many legitimate criticisms to be made about the Bush presidency.
Be careful about citing to Dean’s “Conservatives Without Conscience,” though. That book contains serious logical errors that undermine its message.
Burnet Oliveros- I had the same reaction as you. But, there were also some who undoubtely wanted revenge, and Bush exploited that.
My idea of hell: Kate O’Beirne, Mary Matlin, Ann Coulter, Katherine Harris. And me, alone and tied up in room with these women, and them having knowledge of my political views.
brownandserve @ 2:57 pm (#61)
I think ambivalene can be construed as weakness, depending on what causes it. That’s the problem, you’re required to understand someone else’s motivations, which isn’t easy. It’s not always easy to understand one’s own ambivalence.
The point about authoritarianism being equated with intellectual laziness is a good one, I think. For whatever reasons, these phenomena often occur together. I remarked in another thread here a few weeks ago that one thing I’d noticed about folks who aren’t good at thinking is that they find someone, in essence, who will do their thinking for them. That person is seldom the most thoughtful in the group.
Near the end of the book, Mr. Dean says we are not on the road to facisim yet (”Are we on the road to facisim? Clearly we are not on the road yet.” p. 180). Using his metaphor, if we are not on the road to facism, what road are we on? Putting it another way, if facism is a destination, clearly we are not there yet, but it seems to me we are on a path headed toward that destination. Perhaps a better use of the metaphor would be to say we are still in a rural area on a dirt road that leads to a paved road headed for that destination.
In any event, I think Dean punted here.
Good to hear Norske.