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I'm quite pleased to see Hillary Clinton giving Ned Lamont real, and not just symbolic, support. Good for her. Next big contest: who will be the first big name Democrat to say Joe Lieberman (CFL-CT) should not be welcomed back into the Democratic caucus if he should win in November, now that he's campaigning with in-state Republicans and rescinding his prior backing of Connecticut Democratic candidates (h/t xyz in the comments)?
Who will come out and say, publicly, Joe's not welcome back in the tent, that doing Republican GOTV against Democrats is beyond the pale, not forgivable? Who will stand up as the first true Democrat of principle?
Will it be John Kerry?
Or John Edwards?
Or Frank Lautenberg?
Or Russ Feingold?
Hillary Clinton?
Al Gore?
Nancy Pelosi?
Rahm Emanuel?
Howard Dean?
Bill Clinton?
Who?
Let's keep score, take names and make some phone calls next week. Harry Reid deserves pressure, but so do all the others, especially those in the Senate. Once one person comes out to say that Joe has left the party and is not welcome back, I'll bet others will follow.
It's time to expand the target field. Wouldn't you expect one of the 2008 hopefuls to want to be the first Principled Pioneer on this? Since Joe has cut and run from, you know, Democratic voters and the Democratic Party, shouldn't leading Democrats fall over each other to show us voters some stand and fight bona fides? I'm just sayin'.
Next week could be interesting.
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Hey Pach!
NED! !
Calling for Joe’s Expulsion…hmmm maybe…Hillary or the Big Dog? Maybe not.
Christy:
Thanks for the link to the Democrats report. I looked for it yesterday after I read about it, but of course I couldn’t find it because the traditional media don’t actually link to things.
I need it because I am working on my first campaign! My friend David Gereighty is running for Louisiana’s first congressional district seat against Bobby Jindal.
www.gereightyforcongress.com
I am so excited about working on my first campaign. Thanks for inspiring me every day! You women are truly and inspiration.
NED!
I think former Gov. Warner could do it or some other Dem out in the country who is close to the people.
It will be either he/she who has the least to lose or most to gain. The in betweens will take a wait and see attitude. My money is on Feingold.
Ned is the obvious candidate to call for joe to admit that he left the party. The party didn’t leave him.
After his latest backtracking, Joe is saying he is no longer a Democrat. Joe must go!
I’m not on the expel him from the Dem caucus bandwagon yet. I want Joe to be stripped of any committee positions now.
If Democrats win enough seats in the Senate this year to take the majority, then yeah, Joe has to go.
That’s why Lamont has to beat Joe.
Calling for Liebermans expulsion? All of these and more. Murtha would be good. Democrat governors would be good too. DiFi and so many others too.
Hardball…helarious…that Rocky guy vs some guy from Mississippi who said that Bush should resign immediately.
Helarious… I hope C&L has the clip it is funny.
One more poll trending toward Lamont, and this question won’t matter. In fact, these pols realize this; no need to waste a round on a dying duck.
MsAnnaNOLA @ 10
tweety ended up cutting them both off, ending the story.
You looking for a first.
Holy Joe, you must go. You are no longer a participating member of the Democratic caucus and Party!
See. That was easy
MsAnnaNOLA @
10
Watched it twice myself and loooooooved it! That was not just a guy– it was Dr. Ben Marble of the Cheney F*Y* moment in the aftermath of Katrina.
If it has to be a Senator, it’ll be Reid, almost certainly, just as a courtesy. But the push will come from Dodd and Hillary.
OK, I know that I am very results oriented person, but,
Does anyone know what the actual process is to strip a duly elected Democratic Party Senator of his or her seniority?
That is, if I wanted to strip Joe (or anyone else) of his seniority what needs to be done? Specifically, who (or what group) gets to decide? What specific grounds for removal are recognized? How long will the process take?
Does anyone here know?
Your daily gas and oil prices
Average price for regular gasoline 8/25/06 in 50 states and DC
$3.00 plus 18 states
$2.90 plus 10 states
$2.80 plus 13 states
$2.70 plus 9 states
$2.60 plus 1 state
Average national price: $2.891, down $.014
Highest recorded national average price: $3.057 9/5/2005
Highest average price: Hawaii $3.369
Lowest average price: Ohio $2.676
Nymex Crude Future $72.51, down $.39
Dated Brent Spot $71.74, down $.70
WTI Cushing Spot $72.13, up $.14
Gas continues to decline. Oil is in a holding pattern. Tropical storm Ernesto is in the Caribbean. Prices will move next week according to its track and power.
Armitage met with Woodward and then Tom Cruise??????????????
WTF?
joe doesn’t believe in the Democratic process, he’s already proved that. The danger still lies that joe wants to be a martyr. He didn’t come by the name holy joe for nothing. Ned can challenge him because he’s the opponent, now that he’s a non-combatant Gore could challenge him. Of course I still think that we could send him a cookbook-Chicken Feces for the Soul or something similar.
Hey hey, ho ho,
Holy Joe has got to go!
Come on, everybody now…
Hey hey…
angie @ 18
one word: Aliens!
Ho Ho.
IMHO, either Howard Dean (DNC) or Harry Reid (Minority Leader) should be the ones to do it. I’m not sure if Harry has the grambah though, if you know what I mean.
It will probably end up being Russ Feingold, that mensch!
angie @
18
Maybe he should’ve met with Pablo Cruise.
Just curious, when are the next polling results released?
Pelosi’s got some odd dynamics going on. As Dem leader in the House, she’s got every right to be more than a little ticked at Joe for not just backing away from the Dem House candidates in CT but also actively campaigning with their republican opponents. On the other hand, as the rep from SF, she’s had to speak not only for herself but also those members of the Dem caucus who don’t want to be labelled as “SF democrats” either because they are more conservative or represent more conservative districts. (Although IMHO, “SF Dem” is a badge of honor - right TeddySF, punaise, and the rest of us out here?)
Bottom line - I think she’d like to do it, she’d really like to do it, but she’s got to be second or third, not first.
Boxer? Feinstein? Don’t make me laugh.
An alternative to booting Joe completely would be to “censure” Joe for rejecting the party primary result and working against the House Dems in retaking control of that body. If done now, it might make Joe think twice about any repeat campaign appearances at the very least. It also puts the onus back on Lieberman, to answer the question “are you or are you not a Democrat?” If the censure carried with it a warning - veiled or otherwise - that continued rejection of the party would likely result in further sanction when the next Senate organized itself (ie, office in the basement, last choice of committees, etc.), it might get Joe to either put up or shut up.
This kind of resolution might get some of the Senate Dems off the fence, and it’s the kind of thing they could put out there without feeling like they’ve kicked someone out.
Hmmmm . . . rough idea, needs more work, but worth thinking about. Reactions, anyone?
angie @ 13
That explains a lot. I didn’t know he he was…
My fingers are crossed that Russ will do it (go for it, Russ!)
well, thank goodness, that KO’s stand in just explained why I cannot get my LTE’s and letters to the government answered, much less printed.
Colin Powell’s no. 2 man meets with Babs Woodward and Tom Cruise?
somebody help us!!!!!!!
only the Democratic Caucus of the Senate can strip Joe of seniority benefits. Actually, it takes the vote of the entire Senate to do so so technically the GOP Caucus could restore them…
It should be remembered that he was elected as Senator by the voters of Connecticut and will remain so until noon, January 3rd, 2007.
umm, Fidelity III is the name of the former Bush’s fishing boat…
Whatever happened to Fidelity I and II???
immanentize @ 16
Who does it? - the party caucus within the body (house or senate)
What grounds? - Some written stuff, but mostly any grounds they choose to apply. Generally this has been done in the past when the criminal process is moving too slowly to push someone aside and the party doesn’t want to get dragged down by association (visualize the ads running against them: “They tolerate lawbreakers in that caucus . . .”)
How fast? - As fast as seems expedient and appropriate.
All in all, it’s pretty slippery or flexible, depending on your point of view. It goes back to the “organization of the House/Senate” resolution that gets passed at the beginning of each session, setting up the number of seats on each committee for each party.
All this is from watching the process at a distance, not from having been part of it. Corrections, clarifications, amendments and extensions of these remarks are not only in order but are strongly encouraged.
Please forgive a moment of blogwhoring. If you wanted to participate in that Political Spectrum blog article I am working on, please click on my name, and go to my blog, and scroll down and read the instructions (should take someone about 5ish minutes of their time). I will stop tracking new data this Sunday night, the 27th.
If you already did the questionnaire and reported the results, thanks for helping!
OT- but does anyone have egregious’s email addy? I would like to contact her, to see how she is doing. You can email me at tenureransom AT hotmail DOT com. Thanks all. VG
OT: I read in New Orleans City Business that there is a real shortage of poll workers for the upcoming election. Since being a poll worker is a way to “fight the right” and all that, I thought I would post the link to the article here for NOLA folks. If you can volunteer please do so.
http://www.neworleanscitybusin.....ailyUpdate
There I was, commenting away, did anyone come and get me? Feel kinda silly now.
Whatever happened to Fidelity I and II???
I’m afraid they went under, so to speak, during the great S&L debacle of 1989.
I really think Holy Joe has more than demonstrated that he will not back down no matter what happens. His wounded ego and pride won’t allow it, and he would never take any sort of risk to bring that kind of shame to his new Republican Family. He’s lost his marbles.
LieberLIAR is REFUSING to endorse the Dem congressional candidates in Conn, now because he says they are supporting his opponent Ned Lamont…TIME TO THROW THE TROLL OUT….get busy on those phones…let’s not let up!
Why wait for the election. He is now with the enemy, thus, is the enemy. Kick him out now. Don’t let any voter go to the polls thinking he has a choice of Democrats.
I’m a bit wary of the “purge” criticisms that have been leveled at the Joester. That said, I think it’s just fine that if he drops out of the race and “remains a Democrat” that there are no hard feelings, but running under a different non-party should surely trigger some party mechanisms.
It will come in stages. It’s more effective that way. The steady drum beat of endorsements of Lamont and the steady criticism and ultimate censure of Lieberman. Yeah, it could have happened on Wednesday morning but to less effect.
purge him, throw him up now, spew forth Progressives!
yesterday!
ack, ack!
Stuart Eugene Thiel @
15
Of course, that’s only if Reid wants to keep his bona fides as leader.
OT imm- just sent you another p.s. email. VG
angie @
29
What did KO’s stand in say?
Boxer? Feinstein? Pelosi?
Boxer Feinstein Pelosi = The Indie-Joe Girls
If Reid doesn’t act NOW it will be too late….I hope that now that LieberLIAR will not support the other Dems, so of the leaders will HVE to renounce his crap!
Sorry, Pach, but I still think this is unnecessary and possibly counterproductive.
If someone is self destructing, you don’t need to be seen shooting them! Joe is self-destructing.
JL’s actions today provide still more reasons for party officials to say, “I don’t agree with what he’s doing by not supporting our candidates and appearing at campaign events with Republicans,” when asked what they think of Joe not endorsing the Dem candidates. They can say, “I fully support our candidates and I’m glad to see Ned Lamont, our candidate, fully supporting them too. I support Lamont.” That’s what Joe just gave us, and we should take it.
Tommorrow, Joe will do something else, because he’s in a spiral, and that will be another opportunity. I think patience will pay off, while demanding the whole thing immediately will not. In fact, if nothing else were to happen, I would predict that virtually none of the people on your list will do what you’re suggesting, and if one or two do, they will be isolated by others, who will feel forced to say, “we don’t agree.”
How does this help Lamont?
Lamont’s friendly meeting with Senator Clinton will signal to the old power brokers of the Democratic Party that Lieberman is toast. Hillary took the first step Election Night with her $5000 to Ned in dumping Lieberman …
zennurse @
47
just that Rich Amitage met with thos two blokes on his official calender… I mean, how much time does that leave us citizens?
Quickie OT:
Dr Turtle has returned! Safe and Sound. Thanks to all for the support.
inthedoghouse….this has NOTHING to do with lamont…this has to do with WHAT IS RIGHT…..we need to be strong as a party and letting LieberLIAR walk all over the other Dems in his state is a disgrace….
off subject: Dear EPU: I left a response to you in previous thread. Nothing earth-shattering! Back to regular programming all.
Ghostman
zennurse @ 36
Lotsa times dead threads can keep going, zombie-like, until the conversation is finished. Makes sense to me.
Big Dawg
please add an R to Amitage above and thank you Ms. HSAT!
Okay guys. Was I the only one to hear it? Or am I round-the-bend hearing what I wanna hear???
David Shuster MSNBC Hardball Correspondent, on 20060825, referred to Sen. Joe Lieberman, as
“the President’s favorite former Democrat.”
Now I’ll admit, I helped split & stack firewood all day, so maybe I succumbed to the high-80’s & muggy heat here, or ….
Did NO one else hear that? I wanna hear the tape! *g*
HopeSpringsATurtle @ 53
Hooraaaaaaay!
Too bad that Tom Cruise is such a jerk. I like a lot of his movies. For me it doesn’t get much better than “A Few Good Men”. Though I think Demi Moore and J.T. Walsh stole the show. The late great J.T. Walsh. Did you know Walsh was a social worker, junior high school teacher and former president of the political organization, SDS, Students for a Democratic Society before becoming an actor? Walsh played right-wingers to a tee. Ronald Reagan absolutely hated Walsh’s SDS.
HopeSpringsATurtle @ 53
Hurray!!
i heard it, too. when the heating oil runs out, can i come stay near your house Adie?
seriously, we got us one of them new fangled pellet stoves and a pile of sweaters and comforters.
fashion? not a worry, … ‘ere!
Peterr @
26
damn straight! (OK, so that doesn’t play in Peoria…)
Plame - I still don’t get why Rove isn’t on the playlist for the Libby trial.
Lieberman - I think that it looks like “mean girls” stuff that will get attributed back to Lamont, unless there is an important issue coming up between now andNov where Lieberman just can’t really be trusted. JMO, fwiw
Holy Joe’s refusal to endorse the capture of Republican House seats by Democrats is an astounding blunder. How could he be so oblivious to the wrath he’d incur? It rivals his oblivousness to the chaos of Iraq.
LindaR @ 62
turtle springs a hope!
Franco @ 54
No one is advocating letting Joe “walk all over the other Dems” in your state. The question is, what’s the best way to turn the fact that he did walk all over them against Joe, so that (1) he loses to Lamont [yes, this is about Lamont] and (2) the other Dems win?
ccmask @ 1
ccmask, how are you feeling?
HopeSpringsATurtle @ 53
Yay!!
‘Predicting is hard, especially the future.’ Who said that, Yogi Berra, or some mayor? Anyway, since the naive hippy whiney juvenile lefty blogs and their associated commentators are batting about 1000 on predicting Joe’s behavior, and the very wise grown-up responsible and very knowing corporate Dems are batting about zero, when will some very very wise grown-up responsible and very knowing corporate media pundits notice? Will it change their minds some, or will they stick with there usual reasoning? IMO, their usual reasoning would be that recent history proves how the very wise grown-up responsible and very knowing (VWGURAVK) the usual gang of idiots (UGOI) is . Yeesh, even some one like me can learn! Just exactly what more does this weasel need to do?
As for Lieberman’s campaign: got content yet? You, know, about stuff like, oh… you know… war and peace, terrorism policy, non-proliferation economics, wages… Not that I’ve heard. Maybe no time for that trivia after bogus gotcha, smearball, and tactical backstab games.
But it occurs to me that Joe has gone McCain on us, so there is some content on Iraq, terrorism and non-proliferation and Middle East: Bomb ‘em. Except McCain can at least show that his brain works to some extent and he can explain why that approach probably won’t work well at all before we go ahead and do it anyway. Because not doing that will look weak, even if it won’t work. That is how one gets strong, stays strong, and looks strong, you know, doing stuff that looks strong even though it doesn’t work. See, it works in reality even though that script would get lauged at in a movie.
I have to say Feingold too. He’ll finally get exasperated again with the lack of truth and leadership. He’s the only one that has the real nads to speak up, just like he did with the censure resolution.
Shez @ 72
I think you are right. Feingold is a true Dem.
al-Scooter @ 70
Yeah Yay!
Olberman stand-in - “Ann Coulter’s kryptonite is… pure reason.” BWAHAHA
good ember. Thanks for asking. And HSAT-good for you both!
op99 @ 75
jest getting up off the floor, i am!
If I were a betting man I would not bet on any big political name demanding that Joe not caucus with the Dems should he win in November. They may do it in private and amongst themselves, but I seriously doubt there will be a public demand.
You can say they are a bunch of cowards and be correct, but the political calculus of taking such a step on a presumptive event happening in the future is not in the nature of these extraordinarily attuned political denizens.
I think the best we can expect is for as many senior Dems as possible to endorse Lamont, throw him some real support, and shun Lieberman.
I would accept that as fair enough.
Russ.
KO’s stand-in is Brian Unger http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Unger
Janet @ 79
He did sidestep this very issue on the last Sunday talker I saw him on, though.
HopeSaT
So glad to hear from you and REALLY GLAD Dr. Turtle is OK and and home safe and sound.
immanentize @
16
I’ve been doing some reporting on this, but I can’t write it up tonight. Short answer: first, a secret ballot in the Dem caucus, then supposedly, approval by whole senate. Senators can only vote for a period of time covering their own terms.
Christy, are you lurking about?
I would like to know if it would be O.K. with you to re-post the last couple of paragraphs of your EPU response to Lisadawn? I think it’s relevant to any thread.
To answer the question…..I’ll pick either Gore or Dean. Gore might do it because he no longer is beholden to the powers-that-be. Dean might be the one since he is “the voice of the Democratic Party”.
Ghostman
Welcome home, Hope!
OJS #78: This is not snark, but in the passage below, what do you mean by “attuned”? To what, for what purpose, how? To me it seems attuned to being, and correctly being taken for abject, clueless chumps, or ‘lets see if we can weasel out a Senate majority with this weasel’ weasels. How is being attuned in this way good?
“You can say they are a bunch of cowards and be correct, but the political calculus of taking such a step on a presumptive event happening in the future is not in the nature of these extraordinarily attuned political denizens.”
but… if the Lieberman shunning is really strong, and the Lamont support is really strong, I’ll take it.
EPUed from the last comments: to Christy:
Then go on to bed. We’ll be good…maybe :). Just stay healthy. We need clarity now more than ever.
Al. Gore.
It will be Al. Gore.
Busted at 84 — feel free. Am still wrestling with the damn HTML for a post for tomorrow. I may give up soon…I think the cold meds are screwing up what little computer acumen I have.
OT, but:
Bush: “I’m responsible for the Federal government.”.
Um, what about the other two branches of the Federal government? And the Constitution?
Christy,
if Lil Peanut is in bed my only suggestion is,
Give it up Hon’, 2 shots of Nyquil and lights out.Get some rest, please. Hope you feel better soon.
kinda OT - Unger is a lot of fun - it would be nice to see someone like creepy Beck get ditched and someone like Unger get his own slot.
more OT - At least someone is getting greeted like liberators in Iraq these days.
British Leave Iraqi Base; Militia Jubilant
Somewhere, you just know Wolfowitz is getting a bit teary eyed, muttering into a cracked mug of cheap whiskey, “those should have been MY flowers…”
I’ll make a Dodd call tomorrow. If he’s serious about this presidency business, this would be an opportunity to get out in front.
McClaughlin(sp) on the McClauglin group just called LieberLIAR disgraceful!…LOL
Tony TROLL Blankley said he hopes the Dems throw out RG Joe, because he should be a ReTHUGlican
LindaR @
62
Welcome back to both of you, HopeSAT!
I got to ask, since I’m new to the site. Stephen Elliot on HuffPo has challenged the assertion that Lieberman was campaigning with GOPers.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....27997.html
What’s the deal? Is he talking about the same event? Are there other indications that missed? What’s the deal?
it would be impolitic for the National Chair of the Democratic Party to openly call for the Senate Democratic Caucus to call for the stripping of Lieberman’s seniority.
The best person to do it would be Al Gore as an ex-Senator. He’s not running for anything and is just a private citizen nowadays. (dammit)
I CAN’T believe this hasn’t been done already now that he’s campaigning with re puke licans
this is UNACCEPTABLE
when cheney, hannity, rush, and bush himself campaign for a politician, YOU CAN BET YOUR BOTTOM DOLLAR HE IS IN THE POCKET OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY
it’s time for him to GO
HopeSpringsATurtle @ 53
Oh, such good news. xxoo
wes, 87:
All politicians are “attuned” to the need to survive politically. This is their measure of what risks they are willing to take. Politics is a game of risk measurement and risk taking. They prefer not to take risks with a negative reward ratio. Their calculus of the possibilities constitutes their “attunement” to what they perceive in the political lanscape. If their attunement leads them to take a cowardly position, well that’s what they will do.
Other than that I don’t think we disagree on anything.
angie 63
Bless you! I may be crazy, but they’ll have to find other evidence. And fashion? pshaw!
This is only house we’ve ever owned. We had one chance to change fuel when we finally replaced an elderly furnace a few yrs ago, & we stuck with oil. (apparently a good decision in disguise at the time in OH because, as soon as the gas lines were connected in our area, natural gas prices soared in spite of all advertisements & predictions - surprise surprise)
Fireplace is all we’ve got (e.g., no serious stove, etc.), & it’s more of a mind-comfort sorta thing, as well as a HUGE luxury item for the 2 kitties - overall probably tries to pull out more heat than it makes, so we have the glass doors, tend the flue without fail, close most heat vents elsewhere when it’s going & turn furnace way down etc., - all done occasionally in winter, just to enjoy the nostalgia.
Most of the downed trees on our property simply feed the carpenter ants, thence the Pileated Woodpeckers, who are trying to decide whether to stay around, or not, on our little bitty bit of conservation easement-protected woodland, surrounded by galloping slueburbia.
Frankly, we get considerable warmth from FDL! ;->
Well, as far as not supporting other Dems in CT, off the blogs and right into the paper:
http://www.newhavenindependent.....ant_jo.php
Uhh, Joe? First lesson of crisis management? When in a hole, stop digging.
Re posted with permission. Edited to get to the salient point.
Jane and I cannot be online every minute of every day. (As it is, I get little enough time for my family and myself these days because we are so busy.) We rely on our volunteer moderators to keep the discussion moving along — and by and large they do a great job for us. Lately, there has been a lot of questioning of what it is that they and Jane and I and other do — but you know, I’ve been thinking that perhaps we should just allow all the spam, and nastiness and everything else creep into a thread or two so everyone could see how things COULD be without all the work that everyone puts in behind the scenes.
It’s a thankless job, to moderate — you are accused of taking things too far by half the readers, and accused of not doing your job quickly enough by the other half. I have to say that I am personally very happy to have them all — because my life would be that much more exhausting without them.
Thanks Moderators, and everyone involved in keeping the joint going.
( not now lotus, later)
Vicki, Who ♥ Al Gore @ 90
I hope so, fervently.
Do you try to kill someone who is already committing suicide?
Someone in a thread yesterday (I think) said something about in days of yore, someone from the caucus would be deputized to deliver the message and a weapon or poison or some such thing and the traitor would be expected to go into a room and privately finish themselves off. In Japan it would be sepuku.
Someone needs to go pay Joe a visit and tell him to do the “honorable” thing.
Problem is that Joe is long past being honorable.
What will happen is anybody’s guess, but he sure is doing quite a job of finishing himself off.
The fact that, in a time where Dems are desparately hoping to regain the House, Lieberman refuses to endorse not one, not two, but all three Dems running for Congress in his state - that’s pretty big, or, more accurately, pretty small of him.
The weight of so many grudges must slow down his polka.
Pach — that is really what I was looking for. Thanks! I hope you stay on this, especially the sad little detail of only being able to vote on someone who post-dates your presence in the senate. Does that mean when Lieberman was originally elected (18 years ago?) or just that no one elected for the first time since 2000 can participate?
Thanks again
RevDeb @ 106
seppuku is not an option with a dishonorable man, Rev Deb.
Cheers Adie!
joe seems to be self destructing, his non-combatant line was a joke, why make him a martyr now. Democrats would do better by saying poor joe, he must have eaten more of that chicken hawk feces that the president has been spreading. Of course, some can come up with more political correct terminology. joe’s prize should be his concession speech.
Angie,
You’re right. But wouldn’t that be a gesture to restore honor?
seppuku is not an option with a dishonorable man,
Paging Darkblack, Please use the white courtesy phone nearest you.
Bustednuckles (112),
Shouldn’t that be a black courtesy phone, in this instance?
Mike V. @ 113
But of course!
Bustednuckles @ 112
yes, that would be choice!
Bustednuckles
I think most of us are color-blind.
Pick-up, Darkblack. hello?
What Vicki said.
Now that would be justice, the kind he deserves so richly, the kind that we would be so very happy to see.
Al Gore, sir, please ask Joe to give up his status as a member of the Democratic Party.
And Senator Reid, you can yank Joe’s seats any time now. There would be no need to worry about these seats being at risk for ca